Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[WrathChild]

I was thinking something similar to what pops said. Essentially,

today we nominate someone scummy

(separate from the lynch). Tonight,

everyone with an ability that will hurt the town in the long run gives it to our nominee

. The next night, assuming there's at least one vig ability in the game, whoever has that vig ability shoots the nominee. It has to happen the next night after everything is passed because of the action resolution order. Downsides: there are several ways it could get screwed up (target getting passed a bulletproof ability, mafia getting passed a doctor ability, some kind of bus driver moving everything to someone else).

Another thing I was thinking is that we might be able to just massclaim on day two. Mafia won't be able to kill anyone with a useful power role, and it'll give us some insight into what's in play. Oh, and any investigative roles can claim results without risk of their abilities being lost. I think it would also help the town more than the mafia because the mafia can share what roles they've gotten between each other, so they'll already have info about what's in play.

Also, a fullclaim from me is probably inevitable. But we'll see.

Ok, several things:
#1: Hi guys, I'm new here, so forgive me if I don't know the meta or joke-phase protocal, so...
#2: I'll skip right over joke-phase and get down to business. So did Implosion just suggest we give every anti-town role to the person we find scummiest? With the Vig factor in or not, this is a HUGE gamble and bound to be detrimental to the town.
#3: It's gonna take me a bit to wrap my head around all the new names here, so bare with me.

[WrathChild]

PS
What's an RVS vote?

PSS
Oh, I see it was Pops with the suggestion of vigging a townie, which then turned into Implosions suggestion to give all anti-town roles to scum.

FoS: PoPs and Implosion.

[WrathChild]

What I recommend we do is remove your ability from the game, implosion.

We can suggest that someone in the town is a 'good target' and hope a vig or somesuch kills him.

You cycle the town-destroying ability to that same antitown 'good target'. Unless an antitown faction has control of a protection ability for tonight, that guy has a pretty good chance of dying the same night you kill him, so your bad-for-town ability goes away night 1 instead of bouncing from player to player and causing us harm.

I see a fullclaim of your ability as an antitown thing, scum know more about the setup and will be able to manipulate the ability's mechanics more easily than we can .

Highlighted section is where you suggest vigging a townie that I referred to.

[WrathChild]

EBWOP: I think Pops may have missed my PS and PSS post as well.

[WrathChild]

We should so lynch UnofficialRulerOfEveryone.

vote:UnofficialRulerOfEveryone

Shark Bandwagon!

VOTE: Unofficial Ruler of Everyone

(RVS, new terminology GO-GO-GO!)

[WrathChild]

What I recommend we do is remove your ability from the game, implosion.

We can suggest that someone in the town is a 'good target' and hope a vig or somesuch kills him.

You cycle the town-destroying ability to that same antitown 'good target'. Unless an antitown faction has control of a protection ability for tonight, that guy has a pretty good chance of dying the same night you kill him, so your bad-for-town ability goes away night 1 instead of bouncing from player to player and causing us harm.

I see a fullclaim of your ability as an antitown thing, scum know more about the setup and will be able to manipulate the ability's mechanics more easily than we can .

Highlighted section is where you suggest vigging a townie that I referred to.

that's vigging a player, not vigging a townie

"Someone in the Town" is not "Player"

[WrathChild]

I actually see where Pops is coming from. I've seen interactions with role and scum-alignment cause this sort of confussion, which resulted in a delay of clarification, which is usually suspiciously defined. However, I'm not sure it's quite lynch worthy, just note worthy at the moment. I need to go back and check what the Virus is supposed to do.

I agree with the MoI plan and will definately be happy to announce all/any passing I do.

I also think the fact that the Treestump is testable during the day could be a useful scum hunting tool, but we need to figure out how many disruption roles we have first, meaning that targets should not be discussed prior to handoff, only after... for now.

[WrathChild]

I actually see where Pops is coming from. I've seen interactions with role and scum-alignment cause this sort of confussion, which resulted in a delay of clarification, which is usually suspiciously defined. However, I'm not sure it's quite lynch worthy, just note worthy at the moment. I need to go back and check what the Virus is supposed to do.

I agree with the MoI plan and will definately be happy to announce all/any passing I do.

I also think the fact that the Treestump is testable during the day could be a useful scum hunting tool, but we need to figure out how many disruption roles we have first, meaning that targets should not be discussed prior to handoff, only after... for now.

EBWOP:

UNVOTE

my RVS vote.

[WrathChild]

I actually see where Pops is coming from. I've seen interactions with role and scum-alignment cause this sort of confussion, which resulted in a delay of clarification, which is usually suspiciously defined. However, I'm not sure it's quite lynch worthy, just note worthy at the moment. I need to go back and check what the Virus is supposed to do.

I agree with the MoI plan and will definately be happy to announce all/any passing I do.

I also think the fact that the Treestump is testable during the day could be a useful scum hunting tool, but we need to figure out how many disruption roles we have first, meaning that targets should not be discussed prior to handoff, only after... for now.

EBWOP:

UNVOTE

my RVS vote.

Unvoting without a revote, ick.

unvote, Vote: WrathChild

Magna, I think this hot potato role is fairly powerful, do you not? I'm also getting town vibes from Parama, even more than usual in this game.

Haha, that's a first for me. Getting voted for unvoting without revoting? Is this standard procedure here?

[WrathChild]

I unvoted a Joke vote and am not sure who deserves a vote at this moment. I'm not a big fan of the joke phase, so just placing a vote to place a vote just seems pointless. I'll have a vote soon enough, and definately by the end of the day.

Since it's your scum day, I'll let this one slide.

[WrathChild]

I'm going to be off work for a while, but I'll still check in nightly. Just expect lower post volume from me.

So what's the term for this again?
I'm gonna be V/LA for the Holidays as well.

[WrathChild]

I'm just saying that instead of making a long post you just post small bits. If you could put that together then there would be less posts and a chance for me to pass it on.


One question, why did you choose me to pass it to?

Since there's no Good Luck Town, or player-reveal of alignment I'm gonna speculate scum.

[WrathChild]

Now there is talk of Day-Vigging me. That's a bit hastey. I guess I'll address the Scumday thing. I saw that Diddin (I think that was who, I'll double check) had put up a lame pointless vote on me (for Unvoting a RVS Vote) and figured he was baiting me into OMGUS voting him to drive his case further. I wasn't going to let him have that satisfaction, so I just refrained from voting him at the moment. I think it was Diddin trying to fish around for someone's overreaction. Normally I'd take that as a Null-Tell, but when trying to get "The New Guy" with this seems to tip the scales a bit on the scummy side.

Now that I've explained the Scumday comment, I also find Parama's attack on me rather scummy and baseless for the most part. Take a minute and look at his attack, "Oh Well Muh was town... Let's get the real scum! VOTE: Wrath" followed by the scumday case, which basically states, "Come on guys! Don't you see it? Scum like to do things like that!"

It's all bologna. I'm not sure who is scummier, Diddin for rookie OMGUS fishing or Parama's meta-case against a player who's never been in this meta. I have seen Diddin move along, but am curious for Parama's response to this post.

[WrathChild]

Just checking in. I've caught up, but have very low access to the internet. If you need to replace me, I accept, but would still like to play if you can accept low activity until Next week.

There has been some discussion regarding my newness and honestly, I get a Town-Read from AntB for being such a jerk about it. I have plenty of experience, I just don't know THIS meta as this is my first game at Mafiascum. So, I'm not asking for slack because I'm a "NEWB", I'm just asking that people understand that I'm not sure about the typical things that give reads one way or another here, how long joke-phase lasts, policies on lurkers, liars, mudslingers, etc.

I felt that Diddin had try to bait me earlier because he may have viewed me as an easy target. I guess there's a fine line between being cautious and paranoid. I definitely felt that, especially at that stage of the game I was being cautious not paranoid. I would usually read over defensiveness as paranoid and not-OMGUS voting as cautious.

[WrathChild]

EBWOP: "I felt that Diddin tried to bait..."

[WrathChild]

your activity level is definitely adequate
read narsis or helghast in iso
there are two players who have YET TO POST
mafiascum deadlines are different than teamliquid or most other mafia websites in that the cycles last FOREVER

basically, take your time, wrathchild. Considering the terminology that you're using, though, I would ask for you to discontinue playing the noob card. Thanks in advance!

My point was trying to clarify that I am NOT playing the NOOB card, I feel Dirdden preceived it that way, so I clarified.

[WrathChild]

Ok, I honestly would vote for me for the same reasons I was being voted by Lateralus. I haven't done much scum-hunting, but this is mostly due to the bad timing. I'm a 95% at-work poster and I'm on vacation right now. I'm lucky to get a post in a day until 1/3/11 where I will become much more active. So for my few posts I get in in-between I was trying to address what was directed at me. Here I am doing it again. I will claim if needed. I don't want to be vigged.

[WrathChild]

Like I said before:
#1: I'm not a Noob. Just new HERE.
#2: I am a frequent poster when I am at WORK. This week and half of last I am on vacation. I have very little time to post in my non-work life. Those who are pushing me to be vigged KNOW this, as I have said it many times. I am "easy target" for scum to push.
#3: I honestly have not had time to effectively scumhunt and I am doing my best to stay caught up and answer question directed at me.
#4: I have no abilities and am Town (In case I get Day Vigged before I can please the mob).
#5: I will scumhunt when I have time back at work.

[WrathChild]

Ok, I honestly would vote for me for the same reasons I was being voted by Lateralus.

Bwah...? You're admitting their was no pro-town motivation for your play there... which is essentially claiming scum?

How do you feel about Parama/didden now? Do you suspect anyone else?

#1: See above. I am NOT claiming scum, just that you have a reasonable reason for voting me, unlike some people who have voted me on the stupid, "Scumday" comment.
#2: I'm obviously suspicious of Didden as he was the one who got me in this mess in the first place. As I said above, I think those pushing me to be vigged are pretty scummy and looking for an easy defenseless target while I can not post frequently.
#3: I need to review Parama's actions again.

[WrathChild]

PS
If people think my death will give the town valuable information due to the circumstances, go ahead and shoot me. If you do, you better lynch scum today or I'll be super bummed.

[WrathChild]

I don't see helghast as scum at all, I read and re-read his posts and I just don't see it. Lateralus however has given me a very weird vibe since he jumped in this game. Does anyone second that? I think a WC shot would give us a lot of information on someone who very well could be scum but I don't see it as necessary to a D1 scum lynch. I don't think I'd vote for a helghast shot but if you guys wanna discuss other candidates for day-vigging I'm sure I could be convinced. If we want to switch to a WC lynch though I'm not so sure that I would vote for that, seems like a waste of the effort to get a majority together when WC isnt obv-scum in my eyes, whereas a dayvig shot is much more easily decided.

So you're supporting the death of a player you don't think is scum?

Also, Major FoS on Didden for having tunnel vision on killing me.

@LAteralus: What IS the case against me?

[WrathChild]

When either everyone nominates or deadline approaches, I will shoot on who has plurality.

@WC: How is tunnel vision a scumtell? How am I tunneling on you?

Scum are more likely to pick a target and go after them without really considering subsequent points or actions. Town tends to be more open minded due to their lack of information.

You are tunneling on me because, as I've said multiple times, I AM NOT ABLE TO POST REGULARLY AND AM NOT ABLE TO PUT IN THE AMOUNT OF TIME NECESSARY TO SCUMHUNT/FEEL GOOD ABOUT VOTING ANYONE.

As far as I can tell I am being voted for not voting/not scumhunting/not taking a firm stance on anyone. All these things are a direct result of me being V/LA. Honestly I would have been better off not posting at all, but I wanted to make sure I stayed on top of things and didn't have to do a massive catch up when I return to work.

@Town: If Diddin kills me before I return to work and am able to post more frequently you need to seriously lynch the scum (Diddin).

@Diddn: Is your ability one-shot or everyday?

[WrathChild]

Post Count:

-LynchMePls: 2

-RedCoyote: 12
-MagnaOfIllusion: 11
-themanhimself: 21
-Lateralus22* (Thelonging): 24
-WrathChild: 23
-curiouskarmadog: 28
-Helghast: 11
-Powerrox93: 13
-quadz08: 19
-chkflip: 17
-Nero Cain: 11

-Narsis: 6
-Q21: 3

-diddin: 27
-popsofctown: 54
-SnakePlissken: 1
-I Am Innocent: 15
-StrangerCoug* (UnofficialRuler): 4
-Parama: 35
-Implosion: 16
-EtherealCookie: 14
-Saint/Vi: 27

Ok, had some extra time this morning. There are three players with disturbingly low post counts. I need to double check the V/LA status on these people.

[WrathChild]

OK, so I used the most awesome feature of this forum "Display posts by user" and looked at LynchmePls, Narsis and Q21.

LynchmePls looks to have no access.
Q21 announced a V/LA from 12/26-1/3 but had a nice wall post.
Narsis announced a V/LA from 12/24-12/28 and has contributed nothing of value.

In fact, he's made some scummy posts:

1st Post: RVS Vote on LynchmePls
2nd Post: Fixes #1
3rd: Agrees with ability passing confirmation strategy
4th: When Quadz votes Parama for a scumclim, Narsis defends the so called scumslip. The only reason I see people doing this is A: when they are scummates or B: Scum trying to stick up for town, so when that person gets lynched they can give you the I-told-you-so.
5th: Defends self when Magna calls him out for trying to break the game as opposed to scumhunt.
6th: Votes EC on a "Gut-Feeling"

So I think I'll:
(See next post because of Quick Reply non-boldability)

[WrathChild]

OK, so I used the most awesome feature of this forum "Display posts by user" and looked at LynchmePls, Narsis and Q21.

LynchmePls looks to have no access.
Q21 announced a V/LA from 12/26-1/3 but had a nice wall post.
Narsis announced a V/LA from 12/24-12/28 and has contributed nothing of value.

In fact, he's made some scummy posts:

1st Post: RVS Vote on LynchmePls
2nd Post: Fixes #1
3rd: Agrees with ability passing confirmation strategy
4th: When Quadz votes Parama for a scumclim, Narsis defends the so called scumslip. The only reason I see people doing this is A: when they are scummates or B: Scum trying to stick up for town, so when that person gets lynched they can give you the I-told-you-so.
5th: Defends self when Magna calls him out for trying to break the game as opposed to scumhunt.
6th: Votes EC on a "Gut-Feeling"

So I think I'll:
(See next post because of Quick Reply non-boldability)

VOTE: Narsis

[WrathChild]

Wrath's latest posting should earn a bullet.

Expand?

I'm back at work now and can become more active. Doing a re-read through.

Just trying to get myself situated here, but it appears the major suspects today are:
-Myself
-Helghast
-Parama
-CKD
-Pops
-Lateralus

[WrathChild]

Post Count:

-LynchMePls: 2

-RedCoyote: 12
-MagnaOfIllusion: 11
-themanhimself: 21
-Lateralus22* (Thelonging): 24
-WrathChild: 23
-curiouskarmadog: 28
-Helghast: 11
-Powerrox93: 13
-quadz08: 19
-chkflip: 17
-Nero Cain: 11

-Narsis: 6
-Q21: 3

-diddin: 27
-popsofctown: 54
-SnakePlissken: 1
-I Am Innocent: 15
-StrangerCoug* (UnofficialRuler): 4
-Parama: 35
-Implosion: 16
-EtherealCookie: 14
-Saint/Vi: 27

What do you wanna achieve with doing that kind of list?

Looking at lurkers and distinguishing them from inactives is just a first easy step for me to begin scumhunting. I'm not sure what this meta is like, but where I come from, scum lurking to victory neared epidemic proportions and lynching lurkers became a necessity. I'm always open to lynching based on scummy plays, but I did just want to take a quick look at the low-post-counters. Now that Narsis will be replaced:

UNVOTE

[WrathChild]

I guess I just don't understand how things work here because I just read over Helghast's posts and those who are voting him's reasoning and it seems like crap. It essentially seems like the very thing I am getting hate for too.

I saw CHK jump on Helghast for no other reason then that he saw no other wagon, gaining momentum and him not voting or FoSing. I really don't like how certain people are calling not-voting/fosing a scumtell. It's flippin Day 1, we have relatively little information to go off and obviously voting is going to be a bit harder. When I vote for someone it is because I would like to see them hang, not to troll for reactions.

Lynchme and Pops also throw pretty weak bandwagon votes on Helghast.

So I'm moving on to Pops now. I don't think Helghast is scum. I know people are going to jump all over this with "Helghast and Wrath don't think each other is scum... CHAIN LYNCH!" Whatever. I'm not going to change my reads on people to cater to those people.

[WrathChild]

Lynchme and Pops also throw pretty weak bandwagon votes on Helghast.

It's not a weak bandwagon vote, it is a BLATANT bandwagon vote. Note here:

I'm gonna /barn RedCoyote and

Vote: Helghast

It doesn't get more blatant bandwagonny than that.

Expand?

Ok. All of the following makes me think you are scum and should get vigged:

PS
If people think my death will give the town valuable information due to the circumstances, go ahead and shoot me. If you do, you better lynch scum today or I'll be super bummed.

This is quite possibly the lamest attempt at "too townie to be scum" I've ever seen.

So you're supporting the death of a player you don't think is scum?

Also, Major FoS on Didden for having tunnel vision on killing me.

@LAteralus: What IS the case against me?

Laughably terrible posting.

Post Count:
-LynchMePls: 2
-RedCoyote: 12
-MagnaOfIllusion: 11
-themanhimself: 21
-Lateralus22* (Thelonging): 24
-WrathChild: 23
-curiouskarmadog: 28
-Helghast: 11
-Powerrox93: 13
-quadz08: 19
-chkflip: 17
-Nero Cain: 11
-Narsis: 6
-Q21: 3
-diddin: 27
-popsofctown: 54
-SnakePlissken: 1
-I Am Innocent: 15
-StrangerCoug* (UnofficialRuler): 4
-Parama: 35
-Implosion: 16
-EtherealCookie: 14
-Saint/Vi: 27

Ok, had some extra time this morning. There are three players with disturbingly low post counts. I need to double check the V/LA status on these people.

OK, so I used the most awesome feature of this forum "Display posts by user" and looked at LynchmePls, Narsis and Q21.

LynchmePls looks to have no access.
Q21 announced a V/LA from 12/26-1/3 but had a nice wall post.
Narsis announced a V/LA from 12/24-12/28 and has contributed nothing of value.

In fact, he's made some scummy posts:

1st Post: RVS Vote on LynchmePls
2nd Post: Fixes #1
3rd: Agrees with ability passing confirmation strategy
4th: When Quadz votes Parama for a scumclim, Narsis defends the so called scumslip. The only reason I see people doing this is A: when they are scummates or B: Scum trying to stick up for town, so when that person gets lynched they can give you the I-told-you-so.
5th: Defends self when Magna calls him out for trying to break the game as opposed to scumhunt.
6th: Votes EC on a "Gut-Feeling"

So I think I'll:
(See next post because of Quick Reply non-boldability)

Lurker hunting is NOT a good place to start to find SCUM. It is a good place to start to find mislynches.

Expanded enough?

Let me get this straight:
#1: Blatant Bandwagon is OK
#2: Supporting the death of a player you don't think is scum is OK
#3: Looking for active lurkers is NOT OK
#4: Looking town is NOT OK

[WrathChild]

No, let me correct you:

#1: Calling someone out for bandwagonning when they explicitly said there vote was bandwagonning, is NOT OK.
#2: No clue where you dreamed this one up.
#3: Hunting lurkers and trying to pawn it off as actual scum hunting is NOT OK.
#4: Looking town is OK.

#1: Forgive me for not knowing the /barn term means the same as blatant bandwagon. Regardless, this does not make blatant bandwagonry any more acceptable.

So by your logic, it would be OK if I said, "I fake-claim Doc so the real Doc and counterclaim me"? If I do something blatantly scummy, saying that it is blatantly scummy does NOT make it any less scummy.

#2: You called:

I don't see helghast as scum at all, I read and re-read his posts and I just don't see it. Lateralus however has given me a very weird vibe since he jumped in this game. Does anyone second that? I think a WC shot would give us a lot of information on someone who very well could be scum but I don't see it as necessary to a D1 scum lynch. I don't think I'd vote for a helghast shot but if you guys wanna discuss other candidates for day-vigging I'm sure I could be convinced. If we want to switch to a WC lynch though I'm not so sure that I would vote for that, seems like a waste of the effort to get a majority together when WC isnt obv-scum in my eyes, whereas a dayvig shot is much more easily decided.

So you're supporting the death of a player you don't think is scum?

Also, Major FoS on Didden for having tunnel vision on killing me.

@LAteralus: What IS the case against me?

Laugingly Terrible posting when I was irked by the fact that themanhimself would support a Dayvig on me, but not a lynch. On top of that he said that I am NOT OBV-Scum. I felt this was a bit scummy because dead is dead. It doesn't matter how you dress it up.

#3: Like I explained, there were two parts to that, 1) that I had not had enough time to do serious scumhunting and was just look at something simple for the time being and 2) Active lurking (where I usually play) led to many scum victories fairly recently, so naturally I felt the need to at least look at those actively lurking.

#4: Agreed.

[WrathChild]

2) Active lurking (where I usually play) led to many scum victories fairly recently, so naturally I felt the need to at least look at those actively lurking.

Please define what you mean by active lurking. Because my play does not fall into that category as I understand it, yet I was one of the players you were drawing attention to. I was not even lurking, I was plainly V/LA, which was noted to both the mod AND in thread.

By your own admission you didn't have time for "serious scum hunting". Do you know what townies do when they don't have time for "serious scum hunting"? Nothing. Do you know what scum do? Act like they are scum hunting to try and blend with town.

Can we lynch and/or shoot this guy please?

I define active lurking as posting just enough to get by without being replaced while also contributing very little original content. I clearly said that you did not have access and did not consider you active lurking. I considered you Inactive.

Also, I define "Serious Scumhunting" as doing in-depth analyses of one or more players. Would you have preferred I just didn't post anything at all?

[WrathChild]

#1: Forgive me for not knowing the /barn term means the same as blatant bandwagon. Regardless, this does not make blatant bandwagonry any more acceptable.

So by your logic, it would be OK if I said, "I fake-claim Doc so the real Doc and counterclaim me"? If I do something blatantly scummy, saying that it is blatantly scummy does NOT make it any less scummy.

I don't think bandwagonning done for the sake of bandwagonning is scummy when it is expressily admitted to being such. Obviously this doesn't apply to all situations, just bandwagonning.

Please explain why you think a bandwagon vote is a scum tell, so that I can show you why when a player calls out that their vote is a bandwagon vote, it pretty much negates the scumminess of it.

[/quote]
Scum like to do what is easy. They like to hop onto existing cases, they like to accelerate lynches or cases that are favorable to them. I still don't understand why calling out a bandwagon is scummier than blatantly bandwagoning despite claiming it or not.

[WrathChild]

Can someone please explain the Chainsaw term?

Also I agree we need to vig someone, I'd like to stick around, but I understand the value of Vigging me.

Didn't Diddin say he would not Vig EC at somepoint?

[WrathChild]

He's posted... pretty much a whole lot of nothing really. His last post may be a chainsaw, but those read null without a flip.

Unless there are some serious objections, I'm gonna go ahead and shoot Helghast. I'll support a lynch of Wrath today instead as Helghast is screaming vigbait to me quite a bit.

Count me as a 2nd who has not seen anything scummy about Helghast. What is the reasoning there?

As for EC, his attack on Parama was all over the place. He attacked him for passing the Bomb off, the alternative was to keep it. I questioned him on this and did not care for the response.

Quite a few people have said EC. If you are not going to switch to EC, my vote is to keep it on the player who has claimed no power (WC) before Helghast.

You realize I'm talking about themanhimself in the first paragraph, right?

I'm not shooting EC. Helghast has already claimed no power as well.

Here we go. Do you stand by this Diddin?

[WrathChild]

Chainsawing- Player A defends Player B from Player C by accusing Player C of being scum.
Is a scumtell, but since A and B have to be scum together for it to be the case you usually wait for a flip.

Defending a player by explaining why the case is invalid is usually more what town defending town looks like.

Got it. That helps thanks.

[WrathChild]

Also, does anyone think the Day Vig ability is something that should stay in the game?

[WrathChild]

Scum like to do what is easy. They like to hop onto existing cases, they like to accelerate lynches or cases that are favorable to them. I still don't understand why calling out a bandwagon is scummier than blatantly bandwagoning despite claiming it or not.

Because attacking someone for "weak bandwagonning" when that person is admitting that there vote is a bandwagon vote is another example of you trying to look like you are scum hunting, instead of actually scum hunting. The problem is you are using a buzz word to try and fabricate a scum motivation where there is none.

Did you miss the part where I said I didn't know the term /barn? Because that pretty much solves your whole issue. I can quote it if you like.

[WrathChild]

@Nero 530: I beginning to realize my meta is much less developed than this one. That's why I'm here.
@Lateralus 531:
-RE: tmh, I agree people on the WC wagon should be closely scrutinized.
-RE: Helghast, I orginally felt he was town, but you bring up some interesting points, I am less sure now.
-RE: Pops, I was starting to get the feeling early on that he was trying to break the game and may have slipped about removing ability strategies involving killing townies. Since then I have seen him be pro-town for the most part.
-RE: LMP, He feels over defensive and pushing a weak case on a player he views as weak.
@Curious:
-RE: Saint, perhaps he knows I will flip town.
-RE: Snake, at the time of the post I made he had just shown up from V/LA and promised to catch up.. Since then he has done nothing and should be replaced or made dead.
-RE: Parama, I was also shocked by the scumminess of the comment.

[WrathChild]

Heck why not,
Pressure Vote

UNVOTE, VOTE: Snake

Contribute please.

[WrathChild]

Vote in black bold on this site, please..

Sorry bad habbits die hard I guess.

UNVOTE, VOTE: Snake

[WrathChild]

Why do you refuse kill EC?

[WrathChild]

I would have liked to hear why Diddin won't shoot EC, but if he won't obviously I vote Helghast cause he has a better chance of being scum than me.

[WrathChild]

I vote Helghast cause he has a

better chance

of being scum than me.

You don't sound very certain about this. You're seriously making me confused as hell >.>

As I said before, I don't find Helghast incredibly scummy, but am becoming a bit more suspicious of him as new points are raised, however I do know my alignment and not Helghast's alignment.

[WrathChild]

Can you tell which "new" points have risen exactly? Preferably within 30 seconds.

The only opinion he has given is that he doesn't see me as scum. You brought up his unproductiveness and I took note. I don't see him being particularly scummy and I don't like how you are trying to get me to build a case on him when I don't see him as that scummy.

As far as Vigging him, hell yes I'd like it to be him over me. Plenty of people are opinionated on me or him and I see the value of vigging one of us. I'm not playing "poor me" here.

[WrathChild]

His unproductive play was brought up... like 2 weeks ago or something. Why didn't that strike you as scummy then?

Because I was V/LA and just keeping up. Lots of people have been uproductive this game and when you mentioned it recently I went back and looked at him and realized it was borderline scummy.

Here's a list of unproductive people this game:
-Helghast (This has been discussed plenty already)
-Lynchme (The ONLY thing he has done all game is attack me for calling out his /barn and "Lurker Hunting")
-Parama (Do yourself a favor and read all of his posts, especially the recent ones)
-Powerrox (See Q21 546-547)
-Snake (With all of 2 posts I hope he will be replaced)

I definately don't feel I belong on that list.

[WrathChild]

I actually agree with RC that the Vig should happen sooner than later. I'm actually a bit concerned that Diddin is distracting from the focus on the Vig Shot. It seems pretty obvious that we need to:
1. Vig
2. Discuss results
3. Vote to Lynch

I'm not sure why non-vig votes are even close to the importance of vig votes at this point.

[WrathChild]

Vig Count 1.3

WrathChild:

Parama,

Themanhimself

, Diddin,

popsofclown

, powerrox93,

I Am Innocent

,

Lateralus22

,

q21

(8)

EtherealCookie:

RedCoyote, Saint,

I Am Innocent

, MagnaofIllusion,

themanhimself

(5)

Helghast:

Lateralus22,

popsofclown

, didden, quadz08,

themanhimself

, WrathChild, Nero Cain, DarlaBlueEyes (8)

Nero Cain:

chkflip, quadz08 (2)

Narsis:

Saint, MagnaofIllusion (2)

themanhimself:

implosion,

Lateralus22

(2)

popsofclown:

MagnaofIllusion, StrangerCoug,

themanhimself

(3)

chkflip:

MagnaofIllusion (1)

curiouskarmadog:

StrangerCoug,

themanhimself

(2)

Powerrox93:

quadz08,

q21

, Nero Cain, RedCoyote (4)

Saint:

quadz08 (1)

Parama:

curiouskarmadog (1)

DarlaBlueEyes:

Nero Cain (1)

*Hello let's get this vig thing over with already. Unofficial deadline around a weekish before deadline, considering no one's protested yet.
*If there's any errors point them out.

Wee. Diddin, I'd like you to vig someone between Jan 5-7, considering the flexible deadline for the day is the 13. (Actually the vig should be tomorrow at latest because that's about exactly one week.)

When the time comes, I'd like you to give a FULL read on your vig choice and who his flip will affect concerning what alignment he possibly is. I'd also like you now to announce the exact vig date, along with anyone who has objections with this set time to complain now.

[/quote]
you need to fix this vote count bad. It has themanhimself voting for like 5 different people.

5 of the 8 votes against me are from people who have votes placed other places as well.

[WrathChild]

I responded to the above before Diddin made his decision, but MAJOR FoS at Latteralus for trying to push a vig-shot on such a flawed votecount.

EBWOP: 6 of 8 didn;t see Diddin's vote on Helghast too.

[WrathChild]

NM I see what Latteralus did. Any time someone approves a vig candidate that goes up. Removed FoS.

[WrathChild]

OK, something is bothering me about Lynchme. Just a couple of days ago, he was begging Diddin to shoot me or my lynch. The below quote is just one instance (the most recent) of several.

2) Active lurking (where I usually play) led to many scum victories fairly recently, so naturally I felt the need to at least look at those actively lurking.

Please define what you mean by active lurking. Because my play does not fall into that category as I understand it, yet I was one of the players you were drawing attention to. I was not even lurking, I was plainly V/LA, which was noted to both the mod AND in thread.

By your own admission you didn't have time for "serious scum hunting". Do you know what townies do when they don't have time for "serious scum hunting"? Nothing. Do you know what scum do? Act like they are scum hunting to try and blend with town.

Can we lynch and/or shoot this guy please?

We have quite a bit of a back and forth, but it appeared that several players were in agreement with my dislike of his "Saying Blatant Bandwagon make Blatant Bandwagon OK" theory, then even later I make the observation that the only thing he HAS done all game was attack me for my comment against him. No scumhunting, no nothing. Just overdefensiveness.

Now he's back:

Diddin announced that he has a dayvig on Dec 23. It's now Jan 6, which is 2 full weeks later and he still hasn't shot. This is starting to get really scummy. Diddin's wanting to get town cred by having everyone vote on his shot, while being able to disown the consequences of the shot is scummy. Drawing out the process for over 2 weeks, leaving us with less time to deal with the aftermath is scummy. We're now at less than a week to deadline.

Unless there are some serious objections, I'm gonna go ahead and shoot Helghast. I'll support a lynch of Wrath today instead as Helghast is screaming vigbait to me quite a bit.

That was a week ago. FREAKING SHOOT ALREADY. The longer he waits on pulling the trigger, the scummier he gets.

Now he's rushing the Helghast Vig, but his complaint about this being two weeks ago, puts this before he even started to beg for my Vig, which he so so adamant about.

Unvote
Vote: DarlaBlueEyes

Diddin, shoot so we can get on to the lynching scumz.

Now an unexplained vote against Darla?

UNVOTE: Snake, VOTE: Lynchmepls

[WrathChild]

still lynching WrathChild please

You want to restate your case?

[WrathChild]

I also think that Diddin should examined a bit closer because essentially he limited his Vig targets to only myself and Helghast, he refused to kill EC. It seems to be a safe-scum play to limit the vig targets as he did. While he made it appear that we had a choice, it was win-win for Diddin IF he is scum.

[WrathChild]

I wanted to wait until as close to deadline as possible.

Why the hell would you do that? *scumdarasplode*

Because shooting before everyone can voice their opinion on a daykill we were going to decide to be done democratically is a great idea!

I also think that Diddin should examined a bit closer because essentially he limited his Vig targets to only myself and Helghast, he refused to kill EC. It seems to be a safe-scum play to limit the vig targets as he did. While he made it appear that we had a choice, it was win-win for Diddin IF he is scum.

My God you are slow.

How many times did we agree I was shooting people with a lot of votes (hint: not EC)? How many times did I say I didn't want someone else to claim and potentially out a stronger power role? It's like I'm talking to someone and whenever I make a point they stick their fingers in their ear and go LALALALALALA YOU'RE WRONG YOU'RE WRONG

The point is that you narrowed the potential Vig candidates down to two very early and greatly influenced the number of people voting for each of those players by doing so. You can't just say "DERP! They had lotso votes", they had lots of votes because you said they were they only two people you would shoot. EC would of had many more votes if you didn't deny the option to shoot him.

[WrathChild]

ahhhh, bitch
the above post was to WC, not Nero...(get a new avatar)..guess I am a hypocrite.

WC, you can ignore the last bit, but going to check to see if you made these complaints BEFORE the vig.

I'm confuse at which portion of your rant is directed at me and which portion is directed at Nero.

Anyway, I brought it up several times before the vig, trying to get Diddin to explain his refusal to vig EC and whether or not Helghast and I were the only two he would vig.

[WrathChild]

OK, I call for a bit of check here. So Dayvig killed Town-Helghast. What did we learn from this? While I go back and check I encourage others to do so as well.

[WrathChild]

OK, I call for a bit of check here. So Dayvig killed Town-Helghast. What did we learn from this? While I go back and check I encourage others to do so as well.

The first thing that bugs me, as mentioned earlier, is that it felt like we only had the choice between two people, but Diddin tried to make it sound like there was a real choice to be made, which there wasn't.

[WrathChild]

OK, I call for a bit of check here. So Dayvig killed Town-Helghast. What did we learn from this? While I go back and check I encourage others to do so as well.

The first thing that bugs me, as mentioned earlier, is that it felt like we only had the choice between two people, but Diddin tried to make it sound like there was a real choice to be made, which there wasn't.

Also, since people seem to want the Daykill to remain, an idea I think I agree with, Diddin is not a lynch target unless he practically claims scum, correct?

[WrathChild]

Super Broad Player Notes:

-LynchMePls:

I get major scum vibes, hence my vote place on him. Please see my ISO for details on that case against him. Following that he does nothing. Then in LMP ISO #12 he tries to lead a bandwagon on Darla or Quadz, but then also encourages the Powerrox wagon in LMP ISO #14.

-RedCoyote:

RC appears to put forth strong effort and relatively good reasoning. He's tipping towards town.

-MagnaOfIllusion:

I also feel MoI is putting in honest effort in scumhunting. He's tipping towards town.
-themanhimself: The lynch is one of the town's greatest weapons. Suggesting a no lynch is scummy. However, other than that I don't see too much scumminess besides trying to swim upstream about the Powerrox lynch, but that could be a null tell. He's tipping toward scum.

-Lateralus22* (Thelonging):

With the exception of ISO #22, I really see a lot of leading going on. 20 of his 41 posts are questions directed at other players or the mod. I feel this may be trying to get other people to do his work for him, without actually doing anything himself. I'm actually a bit surprised by this because on the surface Lateralus didn't strike me as scummy, but the ISO has him tipping toward scum for me.

-WrathChild:

OBV

-curiouskarmadog:

I actually didn't see much coming from Curious that made me think scum until he kind of blew up and still has not clarified what he was ranting about in ISO #37-39. Tipping to scum because I see this explosion as an over-reaction to Nero pushing him to post content.

-Powerrox93:

Swims upstream about the Helghast Vig, not sure if this is true conviction or trying to earn town points. Overall I see very little effort by Powerrox. It bothers me that his ISO is dominated by "Why's Helghast Scummy?" but does no scum-hunting to try to convince people that there is a better vig-candidate. The closest attempt at this is his ISO #12, which he quickly drops his line of attack on me considering the overall attitude of others regarding the post he attacked.

-quadz08:

I don't see anything stand-out scummy and he seems to contribute enough. Tipping town.

-chkflip:

Has been inactive for the last 4 days. Replacement? Before that he seemed a bit on the aggressive side, but still tipping town to me.

-Nero Cain:

Since his ISO #1, he has really been going after CKD for posting fluff, but overall I don't see much scummy about Nero ATM. He's tipping town to me.

-SnakePlissken:

Recently replaced by Bunny, need to allow Bunny some time

-EtherealCookie:

Recently replaced by nhammen, need to allow him some time.

-I Am Innocent:

-StrangerCoug:

-Parama:

-Narsis

:

-Q21

:

-diddin

:

-popsofctown

:

-Implosion

:

-Saint/Vi

:

Unfortunately I'm out of time at work and mostly V/LA on the weekends. I'll try to finish it tonight.

[WrathChild]

Ok, I had a scum read on Powerrox from earlier, I still think Lynchme is scummiest, but we can address that tomorrow. The extra vote is dangerous in scum hands as well.

UNVOTE, VOTE: Powerrox

I also still think that there is something suspicious about all the Leading Questions in Latteralus' ISO.

[WrathChild]

I saw no reason that his ability would not cycle.

[WrathChild]

I got no abilities.

I have a quick meta question. Is it standard to allow scum to talk only at night or can they talk through out the day?

-Preview Edit @TMH: That ability scares me because it screws up the pass-confirm strategy.

[WrathChild]

The reason I asked about the Mafia Night vs. Day Chat is that LMP seems to have significantly picked up his effort today. I'm thankfull for the increase in effort, but suspicious it may have been coached overnight.

I agree DBE needs to pick it up.

[WrathChild]

Ok, so is the first order of business the Potatoe or the Day Vig. I believe that TMH said he's going to kill the person with the most votes when it becomes live. Which happens first the Day-Vig or the Bomb? No doubt the results of one will affect the decision on the other.

[WrathChild]

I guess the easiest way is to ask TMH to hold off until the bomb goes off.

TMH: Do you agree to do the reasonable thing?

[WrathChild]

That makes it easy then.

Let's talk bomb targets or are we trusting SC to make their own decision?

I'm still suspicious of LMP, just read the ISO and look at the difference between Day and Day 2.

I'm suspicious of TMH using the Day-Vig power as lynch protection.

I didn't like all the leading Lateralus did Day 1, but think it'd be lame to bomb him while he is V/LA.

Parama is either useless town or scum. In fact I see no reason not to bomb him today.

[WrathChild]

EBWOP: "Day 1 and Day 2"

[WrathChild]

Are we assuming the Shotgun to MoI was Vig and Purge to Chk was Mafia?

[WrathChild]

This seems a little bit paranoid, makes me find Wrathchild scummy, much more so than his failure to vote. He seems to see scumhunting as more of an attack and scumhunting that targets him as plots from an opposing force rather than the mistakes of a misguided townie. (of course, he could be right, it could be a cross factional dispute, but the only way wrathchild would no that is if he were scum and diddin were town, not the reverse).

Agree. As I said in one of my latests posts before nightfall, this fact makes WrathChild scummy, where he hadn't been before. His hammer that prevented me from finishing my reread is EXTREMELY scummy.

RedCoyote's #84 is both scummy and lacking direction. I've gotten him lynched as a townie, and he posted completely differently than he did there. Whereas he responded to pops and implosion (two people I have my eye on) a lot, his post has NO CONCLUSION

And you are the first person to have noticed this!? Well, at least someone noticed it.

By confirming this, you would essentially be forcing a no lynch... if he isn't lying, and is merely voteless.

When pops had suggested testing the unlynchability of implosion's role, implosion had not yet claimed that it would be a No Lynch (bad implosion!). In many cases, an unlynchable role will have absolutely no effect when it is lynched. There isn't really a standard unlynchable on this site, so it could have gone either way. So getting on pop's case for this is wrong. If you just jumped to the conclusion that it works one way, then maybe he just jumped to the conclusion that it works the other way.

Ooooh! My predecessor and Saint(furc?) are fighting. Cut it out you two!

Nero Cain says that most of ckd's posts look like fluff. But it isn't. Lack of reading, followed by a plan that developed from lack of reading. Followed by a real case.

Aaaand quadz points out that Nero Cain has mainly posted fluff as well. And it is mostly fluff. Hello hypocritical Nero scum!! Also, quadz is town.

Parama's "gambit" has me feeling a bit iffy. Until then I had him as leaning Town, but this is a bit iffy.

Also, please note that #257 is like the 4th time that themanhimself has shown evidence of not reading the thread.

And then comes his #258 which shows some very fine reading of the mod. Interesting.

RedCoyote's #289 actually says something!!

AntB's accusation against Saint is a good point. Saint never mentioned AntB, and then suddenly says he'd be willing to vote AntB. Same with AntB's case against Narsis, actually.

And now I see the certian reason for AnB's modkill. Wow, that was dumb.

@I Am Innocent #366: That may very well be. Although with two players so far that have done this, it may just be people not properly reading. Especially since ckd is one of the players that has shown this problem of not reading before.

That's now two players, Helghast and WrathChild, that have claimed to have no powers. Arg!

@RedCoyote #410: This looks townish. Although, I have seen scum try to get town cred by going after lurkers. But this still does look townish.

@chkflip #417: I'm liking this post. Especially the attack on Nero. chkflip is now townish.

@Magna #436: YESSS!! Awesome post. Also, I have slightly changed my mind about chkflip, because of the arguments Magna has presented. Not sure about chkflip now. Well, it seems that both of these players flipped, which makes this quite funny.

Umm, did you even read who got killed last night?

[WrathChild]

I passed my ability on.
MoI passed his ability to me. It is clear what ability he had.

Hello mister liar! You do realize that MoI DIED, and so couldn't pass any ability. And did NOT HAVE any ability according to his death. So tell me, how you know you got an ability from MoI please.

This seems pretty significant and should demand explanation.

[WrathChild]

Parama is either useless town or scum. In fact I see no reason not to bomb him today.

proof that I am owning scum

Haha. Parama you are just mudslinging now. Take a minute and read your own ISO.

[WrathChild]

I'd like to hear Bunny's defense, but am, at this point, A OK with his bombing. I think Bunny may have been the SK, a mistake like this probably wouldn't come from the group that ordered the hit on MoI.

[WrathChild]

I am DEFINITELY voting bunnylover, though, as he claimed an ability he CANT have received from MoI. What, did MoI pass that along from the grave?
VOTE: : bunnylover

MoI = town, died before abilities are passed
bunnylover = claimed to have received an ability from a player who died
bunnylover = troll/scum

lynch lynch lynch

Nice catch. popsofctown, if you have not returned me the bomb, give it to Bunnylover.

VOTE: Bunnylover

I caught it to. And I think someone else caught it even earlier.

I want to hear a defense from Bunnylover before he's chosen for the virus, and I also want to make sure we have a consensus. (although I don't understand the reason Bunnylover would tell a lie, LaL has a tendency to hold true. I won't actively oppose Bunnylynch if his defense is poor).

And I think the virus is still on its way to you. Mod hasn't gotten to it I guess.

I really don't have a defense, but here was my line of thought when I posted.
I can not perform a night action, and I actually don't have to pass this ability to anyone else.
The reason I thought MoI passed his ability to me(the one I have right now) is because of two things:
1) I thought their was only 1 VT in this game (got confused with a game I recently joined which only has 1 VT role).
2) Since MoI died and it showed he possessed no abilities, I thought he passed his ability to me, since in my mind, after reading my new role pm, you could pass your VTness.
Bottom line is I forgot that the cycle is Abilities -> Kills -> Cycle Abilities.
I actually have one more reason I thought this, but this would be outting the power I had last night. The reason I haven't just outed out is because I feel if I had thought about it, my first line of thinking is wrong.

Frankly, what disturbs me most about this situation is that Pops points it out, no one gives knowledge to it, and then one other person points it out and several people go, "OMFG NICE CATCH."

This defense has so many flaws with it. More than anything it shows Bunnylover is not paying any attention to what is going on. I still stand by the possibility of Bunnylover being an SK over Mafia. I am speculating that mafia killed MoI and Bunny killed Chk.

I am for a Bunny bomb.

[WrathChild]

@nhammen: MoI was being productive to town hence why the Mafia killed him.

[WrathChild]

Hey Parama, how about you take a minute to make a case against me instead of just mudslinging. Seriously, I asked you a while ago to look at your ISO. I doubt you did. You contribute nothing and just assume all your reads are infallible. You blatantly refuse to read long post, which undoubtedly contain relevant information. You have no respect for the town or the players here with your lazy attitude and short sightedness.

I really look forward to when I am killed this game and Parama can get a reality check.

You are playing scummily and I don't know if this is how you always play, however we have a player right now that straight up lied, admitted to not reading, and is now scrambling, so you'll have to wait.

[WrathChild]

EBWOP: in conclusion, I'd rather see a dead Wrath than a dead Bunny, for the time being
VOTE: WrathChild

So who do you support sending the virus to?

Wrath. He is the scummiest, and there seem to be more connections with Wrath than with Bunny (haven't actually checked that).

EBWOP: in conclusion, I'd rather see a dead Wrath than a dead Bunny, for the time being
VOTE: WrathChild

It took you 22 minutes to decide this?

I hadn't realized that I hadn't put this in until after eating lunch. But it's cool that you felt this worth to post about. Why?

This defense has so many flaws with it. More than anything it shows Bunnylover is not paying any attention to what is going on. I still stand by the possibility of Bunnylover being an SK over Mafia. I am speculating that mafia killed MoI and Bunny killed Chk.

@nhammen: MoI was being productive to town hence why the Mafia killed him.

Yes, and that also works for "MoI was being productive to town hence why the SK killed him." So, I see two things here. First off, you seem to know who the Mafia killed. Secondly, you seem to be hunting for the SK over hunting for the mafia. Yeah, I'm sticking with my vote.

#1: The only reason I would seem to have more connection is because I wasn't inactive and required to be replaced like Bunny's predecessor.
#2: I never said I support hunting for SK over mafia. I said that Mafia-Bunny wouldn't have been so dull as to write that they received an ability from their own NK. As a result, I don't think Bunny is Mafia, but I do think Bunny is scum.
#3: An SK would be more interested in killing mafia than town for two reasons. One, to eliminate competition and Two, to be able to advocate that they are acting in the town's best interest in the event that they are discovered.

[WrathChild]

You're voting SK-Bunny? Seriously?

SK are harder to catch than mafia, don't give you connections like mafia, and if a person has been ruled out of being mafia, then the odds that they are scum of any sort goes drastically down.

I wish I had another vote for you.

Because someone makes a scumplay, but it doesn't make sense as mafia, they get a free pass?

[WrathChild]

My leading comment came after reading Lateralus' ISO, which contained almost exclusively questions, which I interpret as leading others to do your dirty work.

Yeah what evidence are you talking about, nhammen?

[WrathChild]

#1: The only reason I would seem to have more connection is because I wasn't inactive and required to be replaced like Bunny's predecessor.
#2: I never said I support hunting for SK over mafia. I said that Mafia-Bunny wouldn't have been so dull as to write that they received an ability from their own NK. As a result, I don't think Bunny is Mafia, but I do think Bunny is scum.
#3: An SK would be more interested in killing mafia than town for two reasons. One, to eliminate competition and Two, to be able to advocate that they are acting in the town's best interest in the event that they are discovered.

1) That may or may not be true. The case on you yesterday did create connections that Bunny's slot did not have a chance to form. So, if Bunny had acted as scummy as you yesterday, then there may have been as many connections with Bunny as there are with you.
2) You didn't say it, but you were doing it.
3) But you waited until now to say that. Why?

1) I don't feel I acted scummily and to push for my death because there will be more connections than there would be with an inactive player is crap. You basically are encouraging lurking, way to go.
2) I was never actively looking for an SK. I was looking for scum. Scum = SK, Self-Aligned, and Mafia.
3) I guess I just assumed it was obvious. So this is one good thing of your attack on me, I get to spell it out a bit better.

[WrathChild]

I ask questions to read peoples alignments, communicating with people directly helps greatly with that. I have no idea why you think I've only purely asked questions When I've supplied cases for just about

every

lynch/vig

I

pushed

(no Darla doesn't count now!)

so the the getting others to do my dirty work accusation goes down the crapper.

I totally get this, but when I read the ISO, it was largely disproportionate. There were almost ALL questions and no cases.

[WrathChild]

2 things,

1. Should I consistently post cases EVERY post I make when people are already agreeing with me/debating about the point at hand?
2. Should I sit silently instead of trying to read other people?

Honestly I feel your play to be more helpful today than yesterday.

1. You don't need to repeat cases and I approve of asking people to take a stance, but I didn't see much in the lines of cases from you even in context.
2. Maybe, because apparently taking stances and having "connections" to people is lynchworthy according to certain people here. My real answer is that of course you should be vocal, I don't even know why you're asking this.

[WrathChild]

Day 1 consisted mostly of me being V/LA and trying to address whatever was thrown at me. If you actually read you would know that. When I was no longer V/LA, I'm sure an experienced player like yourself could see I was able to do more than defend myself. Yeah I hammered Powerox, but there were lots of other people on that lynch. In hindsight, it may have cut discussion a bit short, but I thought we had kind of stalled out. I won't be hammering anymore unless I have concrete evidence against someone. I need to get adjusted to the stronger meta here. I have no evidence either way as to which kill was which, you may even go back and notice that I originally thought it was the other way due to the flavor, but upon considering the victims I began to speculate the other way around. I made no blind leaps of faith, I just used logic and may very well be completely wrong.

1) I think Bunny has been significantly scummier than myself. So the "connections" issue you bring up is the one that bothers me.
2) No wrong. I was never searching for an SK. Just because I said that a scummy player seems more likely to be an SK, doesn't make them less scummy. It doesn't mean that I set out Day 2 to find an SK. It means that I thought it could be a possibility once I saw scummy play.
3) Done.

[WrathChild]

Day 1 consisted mostly of me being V/LA and trying to address whatever was thrown at me. If you actually read you would know that. When I was no longer V/LA, I'm sure an experienced player like yourself could see I was able to do more than defend myself. Yeah I hammered Powerox, but there were lots of other people on that lynch. In hindsight, it may have cut discussion a bit short, but I thought we had kind of stalled out. I won't be hammering anymore unless I have concrete evidence against someone. I need to get adjusted to the stronger meta here. I have no evidence either way as to which kill was which, you may even go back and notice that I originally thought it was the other way due to the flavor, but upon considering the victims I began to speculate the other way around. I made no blind leaps of faith, I just used logic and may very well be completely wrong.

1) I think Bunny has been significantly scummier than myself. So the "connections" issue you bring up is the one that bothers me.
2) No wrong. I was never searching for an SK. Just because I said that a scummy player seems more likely to be an SK, doesn't make them less scummy. It doesn't mean that I set out Day 2 to find an SK. It means that I thought it could be a possibility once I saw scummy play.
3) Done.

This was in response to 1047

[WrathChild]

Here's the problem I keep seeing pop up. Our efforts to track ability passes are twisted because of it. When we have an easily traceable ability that forces very telling decisions like a Day-Vig, the bus-driver is going to keep screwing up our tracking. With the bus-driver, the Day-Vig is much less accountable for their hit than if the bus-driver did not exist.

[WrathChild]

The problem with lynching diddin is that if TMH passed the bus driving ability to diddin and TMH is mafia, isn't diddin confirmed town?

That's rather the point. If diddin is mafia, then TMH is confirmed town, and both of them have been scummy. If we lynch diddin today, we can clear TMH now AND remove the ability busdriver, whereas we want to wait until tomorrow to lynch TMH, since he has the dayvig. I'll go over both of them in ISO soon and see if one reeeeally stands out, but assuming they're about the same, I think that diddin should be the lynch today. It gives us more info, faster, which is reeeeeeally important right now.

Something is wrong here. TMH didn't claim to pass anything to Diddin. TMH's BD ability seems like it would override alignment restrictions. I'd like the BD ability removed from this game, but I don't think TMH has claimed who he sent it to yet.

[WrathChild]

The problem with lynching diddin is that if TMH passed the bus driving ability to diddin and TMH is mafia, isn't diddin confirmed town?

That's rather the point. If diddin is mafia, then TMH is confirmed town, and both of them have been scummy. If we lynch diddin today, we can clear TMH now AND remove the ability busdriver, whereas we want to wait until tomorrow to lynch TMH, since he has the dayvig. I'll go over both of them in ISO soon and see if one reeeeally stands out, but assuming they're about the same, I think that diddin should be the lynch today. It gives us more info, faster, which is reeeeeeally important right now.

Something is wrong here. TMH didn't claim to pass anything to Diddin. TMH's BD ability seems like it would override alignment restrictions. I'd like the BD ability removed from this game, but I don't think TMH has claimed who he sent it to yet.

diddin said that he received it. And quadz, I'm pretty damn sure tmh is mafia, and I'm pretty damn sure that 90% of the town is pretty damn sure that tmh is mafia, which makes a diddin lynch a mislynch. Bus driving seems like it would be a standard ability - but I'd suspect that actually using the ability could bypass passing restrictions.

That's right Diddin did claim it. + Town Diddin +Scum TMH

[WrathChild]

To my knowledge, the virus can be passed between scumpartners, as it is a non-standard ability. At least, that is our best guess.

Back to ISOing diddin and and TMH I go!

How do you know it can be passed between scum buddies, have you tried?

[WrathChild]

To my knowledge, the virus can be passed between scumpartners, as it is a non-standard ability. At least, that is our best guess.

Back to ISOing diddin and and TMH I go!

How do you know it can be passed between scum buddies, have you tried?

"Can't be"

Anyways, I agree that it is probably not a standard ability.

[WrathChild]

I protected Parama. He seemed town and like he might be someone scum would go for as a NK. I was still fairly new to the game having replaced in and just took a shot in the dark at who to protect.

Ok this is majorly bothering me.

Here's a link to Parama's ISO: HERE. Take 5 minutes and read it, then tell me how Parama could get a Townie that mafia would NK read from DBE.

All I see here is Parama being so scummy that either A: He is scum, or B: He is scummy-town that mafia would never NK because he's an easy target to lynch.

VOTE: Darla

[WrathChild]

OK, so if Darla flips town (like she claims she will) what does that tell us?

[WrathChild]

Nothing. Everyone wants her dead

It was a serious question. Shouldn't we be thinking about the information we will get when she's dead?

[WrathChild]

The optimal plan of action is to vig diddin and then lynch TMH if diddin flips town.

Best post of Parama's ISO. It makes me worried.

On the top layer, I think I agree with this, but I want to look at our options before anyone pulls the trigger.

[WrathChild]

So far it appears our top candidates are:
-Diddin
-Parama
-Saint
-Bunny Lover
-Pops
-WrathChild

This is all I got so far, it gets a bit convoluted the further back you go. I'll start off looking at these before officially making my vig vote.

[WrathChild]

Let's start with Diddin:

Vigging Him:

-Eliminate Bus Driver Ability
-We know TMH passed BDA to Diddin, so if Diddin flips Scum we KNOW TMH is town.
-Accountability for D1 shooting and the narrowing of choices for that shot. If he flips scum, we can reasonably conclude my alignment since he would only shoot me or Helghast and seriously consider why he refused to shot EC/Nmhammen.

[WrathChild]

The optimal plan of action is to vig diddin and then lynch TMH if diddin flips town.

I just realized something. Parama is forcing false chain lynches,

IF Diddin flips town, it does NOT mean TMH is scum.

The only way we learn from Diddin's flip is if he flips scum. That means TMH is NOT scum.

Town can pass to town OR scum, but scum can only pass to town.

UNVOTE, VOTE: Parama

[WrathChild]

Parama:

Vigging Him:

-Rids the town of a player that does not put forth real effort and mudslings non-stop
-See above. Misreps ability passing and promotes chain lynches.
-He's suicidal.
-He gives reads with no reasoning behind them.

[WrathChild]

Parama is ridiculously overconfident with his reads right now. I don't think he was trying to force false logic.

I agree on the confidence part, but I have the feeling his false logic = chain lynch on false pretenses, which = scummy.

[WrathChild]

Also,
FoS: Pops for trying to blow that off.

[WrathChild]

IF Diddin flips town, it does NOT mean TMH is scum.

Obv buddy is obv

Do you guys even read the rules?

Do I need to clarify again why the above statement is true?

[WrathChild]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

[WrathChild]

Vote: Wrath Child

I've made my position here pretty clear. The "if diddin flips town does not mean tmh is scum" bit only seals the deal for me.

Still catching up, but I need to comment on this:

What is scummy about this at all? Parama was proposing a chain lynch on false pretenses. Town can pass to scum or town! Scum can not pass to scum! So the only way we get a sure read is if Diddin flips scum, which means TMH is town!

That being said I will make it clear that I am leaning towards the TMH lynch myself, but I need to check something.

[WrathChild]

OK, in a 25 player we can expect about 6 scum? (correct me if I'm wrong)

We are at 17 living players with 6 scum. That means when a player hits 3 votes (town votes) they can be hammered by scum (theoretically). I'm not saying that will happen because of the challenge of that level of coordination, but just that it is possible.

If we mislynch and we see two kills like last night we are down to 14 town versus 6 scum, lynch at eight. Hot potatoe blows up town (13 vs. 6, lynch at 7), Day mis-Kill (12 vs. 6, Lynch at 7) BAM we're in LyLo.

I think we don't have a chance of removing the Hot Potatoe, but the Day-Kill has been a liability, is in the hands of a scummy player, and needs to go for our own good.

We simply can not afford to lose 4 townies a day/night.

UNVOTE, VOTE: TMH

[WrathChild]

^^Yes please.

For once I agree with LMH.

I'm certain TMH is the right choice tonight. I putting my vote in on him and probably keeping it there unless anything major comes up.

@IAI: We proven ourselves either incapable of nailing scum with our Day-Kills or too heavily influence by scum to trust we get positive results. We are ZERO for FOUR with Daykills. I don't think we can remove the hot potatoe, but we can remove the Day-Kill. TMH has acted scummily beyond a doubt and I think the reason the majority of the players aren't voting him already is because he holds the Day-Kill ability.

If you are so worried about the treestump why do you not want to vote CKD?
If you are so sure TMH is scum (I re-read your ISO), why do you not want to lynch TMH?
If we aren't sure the DayVig has any more charges, why give a scummy player a hallpass?

[WrathChild]

Ok. We should lynch TMH today because if he is scum, he could just pass the dayvig ability to the player his team is going to nightkill, sending it to "the void."

unvote, Vote: themanhimself

That's a self-defeating argument considering that you're in possession of an ability that utterly nullifies that point

How many charges do you think the Vig ability has?

[WrathChild]

^^Yes please.

For once I agree with LMH.

I'm certain TMH is the right choice tonight. I putting my vote in on him and probably keeping it there unless anything major comes up.

@IAI: We proven ourselves either incapable of nailing scum with our Day-Kills or too heavily influence by scum to trust we get positive results. We are ZERO for FOUR with Daykills. I don't think we can remove the hot potatoe, but we can remove the Day-Kill. TMH has acted scummily beyond a doubt and I think the reason the majority of the players aren't voting him already is because he holds the Day-Kill ability.

If you are so worried about the treestump why do you not want to vote CKD?
If you are so sure TMH is scum (I re-read your ISO), why do you not want to lynch TMH?
If we aren't sure the DayVig has any more charges, why give a scummy player a hallpass?

CKD cannot be lynched.

Lynching TMH would kill the Dayvig, which probably kills the chance to get rid of the Tree Stump.

Because the DayVig may still have more charges, and it is a chance I am willing to take. Plus all this wanting TMH dead is making me wonder if CKD and TMH are scummates, and people are bussing TMH to try to protect CKD, who has been asked to pass the tree stump to TMH. So leaving him alive for one more day has strategical purposes as well.

So why no mention of the treestump other than asking me why I am not voting someone who has it but cannot be lynched because of it?

PS - I love your original reason for wanting to get rid of TMH today is that we have to get the dayvig out of the game ASAP, then you use it later as a counter argument that "If we aren't sure the DayVig has any more charges, why give a scummy player a hallpass". So do you want him lynched because he is scummy or because of the day vig being a detriment?

If TMH had not acted so scummily I would not have wanted him lynched. The fact that he has an ability that has been detrimental to the town is just icing on the cake.

When I said vote CKD, I meant for his vigging today.

[WrathChild]

The cycling of the ability I got works totally differently than the redirection.

Here's how it works: I pick two people. Let's call them A and B. When I use my power, any powers A would pass off instead get passed off to B. So last night, when tmh had the power, I was A and he was B.

I can then pass off the power as usual.

Here IAI

[WrathChild]

The catch is that we have to rely on cooperation by the Bus Driver and the Mafia to make all this ability passing plan to work. I would rather just nail scum now.

I see the merrit of your plan, but think too much can go wrong at night.

[WrathChild]

The catch is that we have to rely on cooperation by the Bus Driver and the Mafia to make all this ability passing plan to work. I would rather just nail scum now.

I see the merrit of your plan, but think too much can go wrong at night.

Who are your top 4 suspects?

-Obviously TMH is #1
-Lynchmepls, continues to lockjaw on me and misreps me consistantly, pushed really hard for the DBE bomb.
-Bunnylover, the whole handoff with dead MoI thing, the only 1 vanilla thing, may have been distancing himself from the DBE town-flip by not wanting to pass it to her.
-Lateralus, I still have this nagging issues with all the leading he did Day 1, on top of that he really has contributed very little. Of his entire ISO, the only real posts have been ISO#22 and #57 out of 61. Also, Lateralus seems to have slunk into the shadows since 1/15/11.

[WrathChild]

The Prama shot was horrible.

We lynch WC today.

Then TMH and CKD and maybe Quadz tomorrow.

Case?

[WrathChild]

Ok, back from the weekend and pretty much all caught up. Reminder, I am V/LA on weekends. Be back with some comments.

[WrathChild]

The optimal plan of action is to vig diddin and then lynch TMH if diddin flips town.

Best post of Parama's ISO. It makes me worried.

On the top layer, I think I agree with this, but I want to look at our options before anyone pulls the trigger.

The optimal plan of action is to vig diddin and then lynch TMH if diddin flips town.

I just realized something. Parama is forcing false chain lynches,

IF Diddin flips town, it does NOT mean TMH is scum.

2 questions: what caused you to just realize something? Do you believe that both of these slots have acted horribly scummy?

Yes, I believe that Parama, Diddin and TMH have all acted scumily. See my ISOs #91-94, 100-101. Specifically see my reasoning on my ISO #93 regarding Parama.

Parama

was in possession of the

Doctor

ability.

Hmmm... Apparently I misinterpreted the role information that I had.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Interesting reaction to Parama's doc flip. Why is this the only comment you have? Anything else to say? No. Ok then.

As I've said before, I almost exclussively post from work, that post was made in a very short amount of time I had online at home. Really there isn't much else to say. The next day (RL) I begin analyzing who our best lynch candidate is, which is the only thing I can do.

That was actually intended for diddin, but to respond to your question: Bunny and WC are slightly scummy, while pops is on the town side of null. I've been meaning to look over pops' ISO, though; that's pretty much a gut feeling on him.

Also, I feel like it might not be a bad idea to just lynch TMH now. With this many dead townies, we can't afford to have scum end up with an extra kill, whether it's by poor passing decisions from TMH, or the redirector, or even something we don't know about. And besides, after the kill on Parama after promising multiple times to wait? Let's hang this guy.

VOTE: TMH

Frankly, I propose we lynch theman now. True, we're losing our daykill, but he basically just claimed scum with that shot. Before I just had reason to believe he was scum given his support of no lynching yesterday and his stealing the Vig ability, but now I know it. I don't know if the town should scoff at this without considering it. A scum flip will give us better information going into tomorrow. Additionally, if we lynch a scum today, and whoever has the other night shot knocks off another scum on the same team, we'll be in much better standing.

Vote: themanhimself

Thoughts?

I highly disagree with this plan. There are much better options. We already know he is scum, now we want to find connections. We should be using cycling to give us more confirmed town, and using reactions to find scum.

See my ISO #105. I disagree. I don't think we can rely on cycling to confrim alignments. There are too many variables to account for. If we can lynch scum today we need to do it. Period.

[WrathChild]

I see how you got what you got very clearly, but I'm expecting a lot more out of you. You're after one person for one thing. Seventeen players remain. There are not sixteen townies left—I'd say at least ten, maybe eleven. You're not expected to have a top five or a top six, but you

ARE

expected to have more than one scumread at this stage of the game. Three would be nice.

QFT!!!

TMH is scum.

WC seems like his buddy

. CKD is scum. Quadz is prolly his buddy.

Where the hell do you get this idea? I'll be back with a scumtage of Nero's mudslinging on me.

[WrathChild]

Nothing. Everyone wants her dead

It was a serious question. Shouldn't we be thinking about the information we will get when she's dead?

Instead of criticizing pops you should do the same and answer the question.

If my vote isn't on you it deserves to be now.

unvote;vote:Wrath

IF Diddin flips town, it does NOT mean TMH is scum.

Obv buddy is obv

The Prama shot was horrible.

We lynch WC today.

Then TMH and CKD and maybe Quadz tomorrow.

I see how you got what you got very clearly, but I'm expecting a lot more out of you. You're after one person for one thing. Seventeen players remain. There are not sixteen townies left—I'd say at least ten, maybe eleven. You're not expected to have a top five or a top six, but you

ARE

expected to have more than one scumread at this stage of the game. Three would be nice.

QFT!!!

TMH is scum. WC seems like his buddy. CKD is scum. Quadz is prolly his buddy.

So the entire Day 1 Nero doesn't look twice at me. Then I ask a question regarding the Darla Lynch and all of a sudden I'm Obvscum and I'm scumbuddies with my #1 Scumspect. This is definately a weak attack on me by Nero and reminds me of LMP's tactics as well.

[WrathChild]

WrathChild:

Parama, The man himself, Diddin, Lateralus22, popsofclown, powerrox93, I am Innocent

(7)

EC:

RedCoyote, Saint, curiouskarmadog, I Am Innocent

(4)

Helghast:

Lateralus22, pops

(2)

Nero Cain:

chkflip

(1)

Narsis:

Saint

(1)

Current hit list for didden, note there

may be some errors so please point them out.

I've got your name there if you've expressed some interest in the vig candidate even if they weren't your first choice but you were willing to compromise but haven't got your name next to someone unless I thought you said exactly that you would be cool with switching to them.

Yet Helghast, who was under EC at this moment, was the hit. Could it be because of the following three posts, which were made prior to this vote count by Lat? (I say yes):

I fail to see what's scummy about EC at all... if someone can post a case I'll consider it.

I'd be more willing to lynch Wrath... Helghast seems to be more of a vigbait player.

However I don't want to have ANOTHER claim and risk outing powerful roles. I've already forced one claim and really don't want to make someone else claim.

He's posted... pretty much a whole lot of nothing really. His last post may be a chainsaw, but those read null without a flip.

Unless there are some serious objections, I'm gonna go ahead and shoot Helghast. I'll support a lynch of Wrath today instead as Helghast is screaming vigbait to me quite a bit.

Count me as a 2nd who has not seen anything scummy about Helghast. What is the reasoning there?

As for EC, his attack on Parama was all over the place. He attacked him for passing the Bomb off, the alternative was to keep it. I questioned him on this and did not care for the response.

Quite a few people have said EC. If you are not going to switch to EC, my vote is to keep it on the player who has claimed no power (WC) before Helghast.

You realize I'm talking about themanhimself in the first paragraph, right?

I'm not shooting EC. Helghast has already claimed no power as well.

So regarding the below, I believe Lat's (later) vote counts were swayed by the fact the person holding the day vig said EC was off limits. (Post one, why is EC scummy, Post two, I don't want to out any more power roles, Post three, I am not shooting EC) Agree?

You're ignoring a few key points here.

1) If Lat's vigvote counts were correct, the choices diddin made

were indeed

between the top two vote-getters. That they happened to be claimed Vanillas was a pleasant and desirable side effect.

This has been my main argument against Diddin for a while. His Dayvig shot was totally and completely false-democracy. TMH's Dayvig shot was even more obvious false-democracy.

TMH passed Bus Driver to Diddin, meaning that both Diddin AND TMH can not be scum. IF we lynch TMH and he flips scum, then Diddin is confirmed town. At that point I would be comfortable with Diddin taking the Dayvig. If TMH flips town I don't like Diddin having the Dayvig again.

[WrathChild]

Your last vote was on Prama...he died. I doubt you can vote a dead player.

Join me in voting Quadz.

Not 100% sure why you would doubt me on this but whatever

Hrm.... so I'm guessing there's an SK? Either that or a vig but if there's a vig the ability probably cycles so I don't know that it's much use trying to get anything from that.

Lat is confirmed town

Anyway, I want an explanation for this and until I get one VOTE: Parama.
Also, who has the hot potato for today? I've reason beyond our previous speculation to believe that it came back today but I'll get into that a little later.

Isn't it obvious to see why it isn't true? You're giving us a false dilemma, either did din is scum or I am when that's clearly not the case. If we're both town then you're setting up two consecutive mislynches. I think diddin is scum but if I'm wrong then you're trying to kill two townies with one stone. It's brilliant because one flipping town incriminates the other as scum so one mislynch automatically buys two. Very clever. VOTE: Wrathchild

So, again,

@Mod: Is there a problem with the vote count?

Maybe he just doesn't count crappy survival votes.

If you actually read what I wrote I said (like several times) the only guarantee we get is if you flip scum, which makes Diddin town. If you flip town it does nothing, if Diddin flips town it does nothing. So you are misrepping me AND voting me on that misrep.

I'm very happy with my vote on TMH right now. I don't care one bit that he has the day-vig. Dead scum is dead scum. So many things can go wrong with ability passing and tracking. There is no reason to hold off on lynching scum just because you want to track their ability. In fact I'm suspicious of those advocating doing so. I've seen confirmed scum, buy days for one reason or the other and never get lynched. We don't lynch him today because he has the Day-Vig ability and tomorrow it will be another thing, like "Oh, I'm the cop". We could lose the Dayvig ability at night, we could lose the virus tomorrow making the Dayvig cease to function, etc.

[WrathChild]

I don't like the pressure you two are putting on Goof. Let Goof catch up, which will take about two days and make their own decision.

[WrathChild]

I want everyone on record on the following two questions before we get to N2.

1) If TMH survives to D3, and assuming the day vig makes it to D3, should TMH be killed D3 (either voluntarily by holding the virus, or forced through the day vig)?

Yes, but I'd rather he die today because those are a lot of IFs.

2) If TMH survives D2, should CKD pass the tree stump to TMH N2?

Yes

[WrathChild]

@Bunny: I was saying that if it's not one thing, it's another thing that scum-TMH will try to say to weasel out of a lynch. I support lynching scumzor today, but if people really want to use him to try to get rid of the stump ability tomorrow I will concede TMH's lynch today. I just worry that too many things can go wrong with that plan, especially with 2 NKs and all the moves out in the open.

[WrathChild]

@wrathchild, you say Diddin is confirmed town if TMH flips scum, but they had the busdriving aspect
What if TMH passed it off to a dead slot (the bus driver), and bus drove diddin passing it to a town slot to himself
that would bend the rules, not break them.

Seems like a good idea to me. I had the power to change the cycle of night choices for N1. For example, I could tell the mod to send diddin's power to someone else regardless of who diddin tried to send it to. I sent the day-vig ability to myself and the person who got my redirect power knows who they are probably figured out why I sent it to them. I'm all for using my power democratically

TMH sent his power to Diddin, unrelated to the Bus Driver ability.

The cycling of the ability I got works totally differently than the redirection.

Here's how it works: I pick two people. Let's call them A and B. When I use my power, any powers A would pass off instead get passed off to B. So last night, when tmh had the power, I was A and he was B.

I can then pass off the power as usual.

TMH chose to have all abilities that Diddin would pass go to TMH instead. Then he passed the Bus Driver ability to Diddin. IF TMH is scum Diddin is not.

[WrathChild]

So the entire Day 1 Nero doesn't look twice at me. Then I ask a question regarding the Darla Lynch and all of a sudden I'm Obvscum and I'm scumbuddies with my #1 Scumspect. This is definately a weak attack on me by Nero and reminds me of LMP's tactics as well.

Its just the way I scum hunt or at least try to. If I don't like the post I'll point it out and depending on how scummy it is (which is subjective mind you) then I'll start thinkin' that player is scummy. I think it was you, if not I apologize, but I see absolutely no pro-towness in TMH and you made some comments defending TMH.

I don't recall defending TMH anywhere, I request a quote please.

[WrathChild]

I support the Quadz, Wrath and to an extent the TMH wagons

I see absolutely no pro-towness in TMH

Ummmmmmmwhat? You only support his wagon to an extent, but you see no pro-townness in him at all?

He has the daykill which I think could still be useful. There was some conversation about how the virus might not come back which I don't get. We did everything the same way so why would it no come back? So I much rather lynch Quadz scum or WC scum and not kill off a power.

You still have not reitterated your case on me. From what I could tell you're voting me on a misunderstanding.

[WrathChild]

#1 I'm not voting you #2 I like to make scum sweat so I'll get to you eventully.

Forgive my miswording. Not voting me, but mudslinging me. Sorry.

[WrathChild]

Ok, I just reread the Quadz ISO and I don't think he is scum. In fact I'm suspicious of the people pushing so hard for his lynch.

[WrathChild]

Special Mechanics/Specifics:

1. Any Anti-Town Faction existing within this game may
   not
   pass a standard ability to any of their partners, if any partners exist within the game. Nonstandard abilities may exist in the game.

I went back to thinking about the two scum group theory. The above rule seems to imply that there is more than one anti-town faction. However, I feel conflicted because it seems that the no-pass rule was built in to prevent strong abilities from being used against the town more than the town has chances to use it.

[WrathChild]

quadz08 (5) - Saint, Nero Cain, popsofctown, diddin, nhammen

Interesting.

-Saint is pushing REAL HARD for a Quadz lynch (ISO#98, #106, #109, #136)

-Nero is advocating a Quadz BW:

^Quadz is so scum.
Him or WC, decisions, decisions...

I agree. I'm thinkin' CKD, Nnhamen and, q21?

Wanna start a Quadz bw? I do

unvote;vote: Quadz

RedCoyote (1) -

RedCoyote

needs fix[/quote]

Your last vote was on Prama...he died. I doubt you can vote a dead player.

Join me in voting Quadz.

Then ISO#57 is a hard push, very similar to Saint's ISO#106.

-Pops up until:

unvote, vote quadz

You owe me an internet.

Had not even batted an eye at Quadz. Now he jumps on the Bandwagon with no explanation.

-Diddin jumps on:

unvote Vote: quadz08

dat bigger wagon

Also, tmh lied about the redirector ability. It's standard. Mod-confirmed, an ability is only non-standard if the ability PM explicitly says so.

I feel this may be a bit OMGUS, but still suspicious.

-Nhammen attacks Quadz for, when pushed to give his top scumspects by saying he ISOed himself to find out who (Nero Cain, Bunny, and Saint). Except the Quadz ISO shows his suspicion on many other players including Diddin, TMH, Bunny and me. Honestly this "ISOed yourself to find out who you're suspicious of" thing seems like crap wrapped up in tissue paper with a bow on top. You could say that about anyone in this game.

[WrathChild]

I like my vote where it is. I have nothing new to say.

You're voting someone who's not going to get lynched and making no effort to change that?

Why is he not getting lynched?

Cause your case is crap on me.

[WrathChild]

Now let's look at the Powerox Votes:
Powerrox93 (12) - q21,

Nero Cain

, MagnaofIllusion, quadz08,

popsofctown

, themanhimself, DarlaBlueEyes, chkflip,

diddin

,

Saint

, Bunnylover, WrathChild

The only one missing is Nhammen who ended the day with a no-vote.

-Nero ISO#31 distances himself from CHK, Pushes for the Powerrox BW in ISO#26 just like he's pushing for the Quadz BW in ISO#51. ISO#20 says that he's voting Power because Powerrox thinks Helghast is town. Guess what? He was.
-Pops sights TMH's evidence to commit a vote on Powerox (ISO#77)
-Diddin decides to vote Powerox because:

Fuckin hell man the deadline is getting close.

A powerrox lynch is preferable to me over a tmh lynch. Outside of suggesting a no lynch, tmh has played fairly pro-town. Powerrox's iso drips of scum, pinning suspicion on Parama forever for the muh bomb (which was not Parama's fault) and failing to explain his strong town read on Helghast.

Unvote, vote:powerrox

since the quadz lynch isn't happening in the next few days.

There's been talk of vigging me. If you guys think it's going to happen, implosion should at least pass me the tree stump ability so it can go away at the time of my death.

-Saint votes Powerox:

unvote;
vote: powerrox93

I'm not liking the TMH wagon
I'm suspicious of Darla as well

[WrathChild]

TLDNR:

Saint is pushing hard for the Quadz lynch, which I don't agree with, at the same time he is pushing AWAY from the TMH lynch, which he did at the end of the day yesterday. On top of that Nero is also trying to push bandwagons on Quadz just like he did on Powerox. Pops seems to have sided with TMH Day 1 and now does not want to lynch him today.

Nhammen and Diddin seem to be Null reads on this theory. Nhammen obviously feels strongly about trying to remove the Stump tomorrow and replaced late yesterday. Diddin's interaction is void because of TMH passing him the Bus Driver.

[WrathChild]

What this means to me: I feel like certain players are trying to force a bandwagon on another, once this bandwagon gets to a certain point their strategy will be to accuse all of those not jumping on the bandwagon as sticking up for "scum". Then that person flips town, and it's "Whoops".

[WrathChild]

Also, I still think we should lynch TMH, who as scum can pass off the Dayvig to the player they feel they have the most influence on.

[WrathChild]

I really don't like the case on Quadz and this bandwagon on him stinks. I know that either way he flips I'm at risk for sounding supremely scummy, but I believe this is the strategy scum are using to direct lynches. They start a bandwagon rolling, getting a few townies to jump on, then another scum jumps on and pushes it harder and so forth. Eventually it gains enough momentum that anyone speaking out against it gets painted scum by association even before they flip.

Like I said, saying this at this point is a lose-lose for me, but I had to say it.

[WrathChild]

MAJOR FOS IS ON YOU SITTING ON A 2 PERSON WAGON AND NOT VOTING OUR LYNCH
WC, if quadz isn't wagonned, who do you think is going to be?
Who has the next most votes?
hmmmm

Now I see why TMH is happy with his vote, because he is trying to flip it onto town.
If there wasn't a bus driver ability I'd be ready to write off one of Diddin/TMH, honestly.
The way TMH is acting, I can pretty much guess who is scum.

Hey guess what? Everyone gave me crap for hammering yesterday. Do you think me putting Quadz, who I don't think is scum, at L-1 so you can hammer him is better than what I did yesterday by hammering someone I thought was scum myself?

I'd like to hear your guess at who is scum, Saint.

[WrathChild]

Caught up. Will post more from work tomorrow. TMH needs to hang I think.

PS
What did I say about hanging him yesterday? Too much stuff can happen at night to keep a person alive just for an ability.

[WrathChild]

PSS
I had no abilities last night

[WrathChild]

So with the TMH thing we are speculating that IF he is scum he passed the Dayvig to Diddin and not RC right?

[WrathChild]

Any sign of the virus?

[WrathChild]

My reads I'm fairly certain of.

themanhimself

DrippingGoofball

WrathChild

I Am Innocent

Leaving:

LynchMePls
curiouskarmadog
Nero Cain
q21
pops
Bunnylover
StrangerCoug
Implosion
nhammen
Saint

If we track the stump correctly (Implosion->CKD->IAI) and think CKD's failure to pass the stump to TMH is a scum-move then we get:

Implosion

curiouskarmadog

Leaving:

LynchMePls
Nero Cain
q21
pops
Bunnylover
StrangerCoug
nhammen
Saint

Now I am thinking (see my ISO#123, 125, 126 and 127) that the Quadz BW was initiated by Saint and pushed by Nero in suspicious manners.

Saint
Nero

Which would mean that:

q21

Leaving:

LynchMePls
pops
Bunnylover
StrangerCoug
nhammen

Two of which are likely scum.

My top 3 picks for scum are:

#1: TMH
#2: CKD
#3: Tie for Saint and Nero

[WrathChild]

My reads I'm fairly certain of.

themanhimself

DrippingGoofball

WrathChild

I Am Innocent

Leaving:

LynchMePls
curiouskarmadog
Nero Cain
q21
pops
Bunnylover
StrangerCoug
Implosion
nhammen
Saint

If we track the stump correctly (Implosion->CKD->IAI) and think CKD's failure to pass the stump to TMH is a scum-move then we get:

Implosion

curiouskarmadog

Leaving:

LynchMePls
Nero Cain
q21
pops
Bunnylover
StrangerCoug
nhammen
Saint

Now I am thinking (see my ISO#123, 125, 126 and 127) that the Quadz BW was initiated by Saint and pushed by Nero in suspicious manners.

Saint
Nero

Which would mean that:

q21

Leaving:

LynchMePls
pops
Bunnylover
StrangerCoug
nhammen

Two of which are likely scum.

My top 3 picks for scum are:

#1: TMH
#2: CKD
#3: Tie for Saint and Nero

Need to do this, just like we did yesterday.

VOTE: TMH

[WrathChild]

It was so critical to yesterdays plan that it IS NOT something that is acceptable just to "Forget".

We didn't lynch Obvscum because people wanted to get rid of an ability instead of scum. Now look what happened.

[WrathChild]

unvote: nero cain;
vote: q21

I might pull this vote off, Vi might pull this vote off, but I really implore you all to join me on this.
Not only would his flipping of scum confirm us, scum will have to waste a night kill on us. NK on Furcolow is pro-town.

So you don't want to lynch TMH again? You also want to lynch someone to confirm yourself?

You just gained the #3 scumspot on my list all by yourself, now Nero is #4.

[WrathChild]

Questions I have entering D4:

1) What happened to the Dayvig, was it in the void? (Void Collector should be able to confirm)

2) StrangerCoug, your one post D3 was vague. Did you have any powers DAY TWO that you could have passed along? I think I am reading that as a No, that you only had the Virus Ability to start D2.

3) Dripping Goofball, please say how many powers did you have N2? Was it one or two? Plain English please.

4) Pops, did you shoot Ckflip N1?

5) nahmmen and q21, who did you pass the abilities to N2?

Once #5 is answered, I think we are okay to each say how many abilities we had D3 that we could pass along N3.

Dayvig is not in the void.
I had no abilities to pass.

[WrathChild]

Unfortunately I am mostly V/LA on weekends so I'll have to wait till monday to do anything useful.

[WrathChild]

This bit confuses me a little. I guess the confusion comes in where I agree that scum would want the dayvig to stay in the void and would therefore pass up the chance to retrieve it... but how do we know the scum ever had te chance to retrieve it. The retriever could have been with a townie yesterday and that townie could have taken the dayvig and Wrath's statement that it isn't in the void is perfectly reasonable. Did I somehow miss something here.
I think part of the confusion arises from my townread of Wrath which comes from his rather aggressive attack on the wagon that was taking pressure OFF him day 2 (the quadz wagon).

The assumption here is that WrathChild had the Void Collector N3 and when he said that the Dayvig was in the Void in post 1997 he actually knew what he was talking about.

If that's not the case, then at least I sounded smart and edgy for one or two posts.

Since there is some confusion. I'll clarify:

1. I have had no ability for the entirety of the game until today.
2. I have the Day Vig. It is inactive.
3. It is flavored a bot oddly, so I'm gonna double check everything.

[WrathChild]

Yep it's the Day Vig ability.

[WrathChild]

So no one had the Day Vig yesterday? How does the Void Collector work again?

[WrathChild]

So no one had the Day Vig yesterday? How does the Void Collector work again?

I know I'm jumping the gun here, but I'll answer.

Apparently, the person who has the void collector (me yesterday, which is how I know this) has to choose somebody to whom to pass both that ability and whatever is in the void. I'll claim to whom I passed the VC tomorrow if I'm alive, but since I misunderstood the ability and thought I didn't have to pass anything I didn't remove from the void, you got the dayvig at random.

And here I thought, I was finally earning a bit of respect. I'm a bit bummed it turned out to be random. Oh well.

[WrathChild]

Well I think we still need to address the non-pass of the Stump to TMH, which would implicate CKD as scum. If my Day Vig become active, I will probably shoot the stump. I'm gonna go back and look at the Q21 case, at this point I feel it may be my duty to Day-Vig him if the opportunity arises.

[WrathChild]

Time out. Why is CKD getting off the hook for his failed Tree stump pass to TMH?

[WrathChild]

VOTE: CKD

Maybe this helps.

[WrathChild]

jesus christ...I knew when I got back to the site and saw I had missed the night, I was in a heap of shit. all I can say is I am not scum...but I guess scum would say the same thing...I do know this though...missing that night has pulled a target on my back...what you got to ask yourself is this....do I have to die at one point in this game? ....probably.

If we get to some sort of LYLO situation, I am a slam dunk for a mislynch...I have had enough interactions, passes and passed to that my death will provide some decent information...

if you are going to lynch...do it today...so you can at least use my information.

also I thought we were claiming to get the information out there..what scum motivation do I have for giving you guys the info vs. sitting on that information? once I am dead, please fucking follow up on that bullshit attack.

Which attack are you referring to?

[WrathChild]

This seems to be a good plan. No sign of the virus?

[WrathChild]

Does anyone feel like every single subsequent post SC makes gets scummier and scummier? Like I seriously think his iso is ordered from town to scum.

DGB no one wants to watch you. If someone kills you we'll be happy enough that we've found out your alignment. No need to put all the bets on one horse.

What's scummy about SC voting CKD? CKD refused ("Forgot") to pass the stump to TMH (confirmed Scum), isn't that the whole point of tracking abilities? To catch people who don't pass as directed?

[WrathChild]

I'm getting a bit lost with all the abilities being claimed. I'm gonna try to organize:

muh316,

Eruci

, scrambled by a virus Day 1.
muh316 was in possession of the Virus and Watcher abilities.

AntB,

Eruci altered to Neutral Survivor

, executed by The Judges Day 1.

Helghast,

Eruci

, quarantined Day 1.

Powerrox93,

Eruci

, Lynched Day 1.
Powerrox93 was in possession of the Double Voter ability.

MagnaofIllusion,

Eruci

, shotgunned Night 1.

chkflip,

Eruci

, purged Night 1.
chkflip was in possession of the Ability Remover ability.

DarlaBlueEyes,

Eruci

, scrambled by a virus Day 2.
DarlaBlueEyes was in possession of the Virus ability.

Parama,

Eruci

, Quarantined Day 2.
Parama was in possession of the Doctor ability.

quadz08,

Eruci

, Lynched Day 2.

RedCoyote,

Daevori

, purged Night 2.

diddin,

Eruci

, shotgunned Night 2.
diddin was in possession of the Ability Redirector ability.

themanhimself,

Daevori

, Lynched Day 3.

Nero Cain,

Eruci

, purged Night 3.

So from this list we get:

Removed from the Game

Ability Redirector
Doctor
Virus*
Ability Remover
Double Voter
Watcher abilities

Claimed Abilities not RFG

Treestump
Day Vig
Void Collector
Hibernate
Tracker
Roleblock
Purge

There are 3 unclaimed abilities:

Unclaimed 1 (Pops -> DGB -> LMP -> ???)
Unclaimed 2 (bunny -> nhammen -> Saint -> ???)
Unclaimed 3 (q21/nhammen -> implosion -> Pops -> ???)

[WrathChild]

So above I count (not counting virus) 15 abilities. Now going back to Day 2, we had 12 people with claimed no roles Day 1 for a grand total of 27, but only 25 slots. I'm going back to find where the descrepency is.

[WrathChild]

Those who claimed no ability Day 1:

LMP
DGB
WC
CKD
Nero
IAI
SC
RC

Those who flipped no ability D1:

AntB
Helghast
MoI
Parama

[WrathChild]

So above I count (not counting virus) 15 abilities. Now going back to Day 2, we had 12 people with claimed no roles Day 1 for a grand total of 27, but only 25 slots. I'm going back to find where the descrepency is.

The Void Collector came into play later (N1/DawnD2) and the Purge ability is fairly questionable if it is a real ability that gets passed along...

It's starting to look a little more than "Fairly Questionable"

[WrathChild]

DGB you should have had more than two subroutines I don't know why you're saying you only had two. If you're not lying, the role is changing in some bastardly unfathomable way.

I just checked the PM. That's because it lists abilities "subroutines" that have been REMOVED FROM PLAY. Therefore, they are expected to change. I had double-voter and _____________. Shall I name this ability?

Wait a second. If the Subroutines are from the RFP pool, we should know all possibilities, there should be no blank.

[WrathChild]

Removed from the Game

Ability Redirector (

TMH

->

Diddin

->RFG N2)
Doctor (

DBE

->

Parama

->RFG D2)
Ability Remover (

CHK

->RFG N1)
Double Voter (

Powerox

-> RFG D1)
Watcher (

muh

-> RFG Day 1)

Claimed Abilities not RFG

Treestump (Implosion -> Curiouskarmadog -> I Am Innocent -> q21)
Day Vig (

diddin

->

themanhimself

(stole the ability) -> StrangerCoug/randomly sent to WC ->

WrathChild

)
Void Collector ((nobody D1) -> I Am Innocent -> StrangerCoug ->???)
Hibernate (

quadz08

->

MOI

/Void/Collected by I Am Innocent -> Implosion ->???)
Tracker (q21/nhammen -> Implosion -> I Am Innocent (Bunny) -> ???)
Roleblock (Saint (DBE) -> q21 -> Implosion (NC) -> ?)
Purge (? -> DrippingGoofball -> ? -> ?)
Ability Cop (bunny -> nhammen -> Saint -> ???)
Re-Initialize (Pops -> DGB -> LMP -> ???)

There is 1 unclaimed abilities:

Unclaimed 3 (q21/nhammen -> implosion -> Pops -> ???)

I know this is just a rehash of what IAI did, but I'm getting somewhere I think, so bare with me.

[WrathChild]

So first thing to look at is the Treestump Ability:
If we lynch CKD like we should and he flips scum, it confirms Implosion and IAI.

Day Vig:
TMH flipped scum so that confirms SC as Town right?

Void Collector:
Appears D2 with IAI, how he was selected I don't know. This ability alone confirms no one. So Diddin attempted to Bus Drive the Day Vig to himself, but was killed N2, sending it to the void. TMH obviously lied and said he tried to send it RC, but instead sent it to Diddin, knowing full well that Diddin would be the NK target, confirming that the Shotgun Kill is the scum kill.

Quadz attempted to pass hibernate N1 to MOI. IAI collected Hibernate N1 and passed it to Implossion. This tells us nothing.

SC passed me Day Vig from the void. This tells us nothing.

Is there anything else in the Void?

Hibernate (Bulletproof):
So Implosion had Hibernate D2 and N2 passed it to someone who was targeted by the mafia last night. Is this information we want to make public or is it best left unsaid? I don't see the harm in announcing who Implossion passed it to, but my head is starting to feel a bit foggy (think I'm getting sick), so I could be wrong.

Tracker:
N3 IAI tracked bunnylover with no result, N2 Implosion had it and has not claimed his target. There should be plenty of information now for him bust any one if he's going to.

N1 nhammen claims to have tracked chk to Darla with ability remover. I need to look into this more. Something is confusing here and I'm running out of time.

In fact I am out of time. TBC. Please answer my questions if you see one addressed to you.

[WrathChild]

So apparently I'm confused how the void collector works. My impression was the the person with the VC ability fishes a role out of the void and passes it to someone else AND passes the VC ability to a different person. I was under the impression that the ability pulled from the void would have to abide by the same passing restrictions as the VC ability. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[WrathChild]

So first thing to look at is the Treestump Ability:
If we lynch CKD like we should and he flips scum, it confirms Implosion and IAI.

Day Vig:
TMH flipped scum so that confirms SC as Town right?

Void Collector:
Appears D2 with IAI, how he was selected I don't know. This ability alone confirms no one. So Diddin attempted to Bus Drive the Day Vig to himself, but was killed N2, sending it to the void. TMH obviously lied and said he tried to send it RC, but instead sent it to Diddin, knowing full well that Diddin would be the NK target, confirming that the Shotgun Kill is the scum kill.

Quadz attempted to pass hibernate N1 to MOI. IAI collected Hibernate N1 and passed it to Implossion. This tells us nothing.

SC passed me Day Vig from the void. This tells us nothing.

Is there anything else in the Void?

Hibernate (Bulletproof):
So Implosion had Hibernate D2 and N2 passed it to someone who was targeted by the mafia last night. Is this information we want to make public or is it best left unsaid? I don't see the harm in announcing who Implossion passed it to, but my head is starting to feel a bit foggy (think I'm getting sick), so I could be wrong.

Tracker:
N3 IAI tracked bunnylover with no result, N2 Implosion had it and has not claimed his target. There should be plenty of information now for him bust any one if he's going to.

N1 nhammen claims to have tracked chk to Darla with ability remover. I need to look into this more. Something is confusing here and I'm running out of time.

In fact I am out of time. TBC. Please answer my questions if you see one addressed to you.

Questions until I finish this tomorrow:
#1: Anything else in the void we should know about?
#2: See my last post about Void collector
#3: Should the person with Hibernate step forward and confirm their towniness?
#4: Implossion's N2 results

and a new question:
#5 Can we please get take a look at the uber-suspicious Purge ability. Didn't DGB claim it cycled? So... should the person who held it before and after him be safe to come forward?

[WrathChild]

Removed from the Game

Ability Redirector (

TMH

->

Diddin

->RFG N2)
Doctor (

DBE

->

Parama

->RFG D2)
Ability Remover (

CHK

->RFG N1)
Double Voter (

Powerox

-> RFG D1)
Watcher (

muh

-> RFG Day 1)

Claimed Abilities not RFG

Treestump (Implosion -> Curiouskarmadog -> I Am Innocent -> q21)
Day Vig (

diddin

->

themanhimself

(stole the ability) -> StrangerCoug/randomly sent to WC ->

WrathChild

)
Void Collector ((nobody D1) -> I Am Innocent -> StrangerCoug ->???)
Hibernate (

quadz08

->

MOI

/Void/Collected by I Am Innocent -> Implosion ->???)
Tracker (q21/nhammen -> Implosion -> I Am Innocent (Bunny) -> ???)
Roleblock (Saint (DBE) -> q21 -> Implosion (NC) -> ?)
Purge (? -> DrippingGoofball -> ? -> ?)
Ability Cop (bunny -> nhammen -> Saint -> ???)
Re-Initialize (Pops -> DGB -> LMP -> ???)

There is 1 unclaimed abilities:

Unclaimed 3 (q21/nhammen -> implosion -> Pops -> ???)

I know this is just a rehash of what IAI did, but I'm getting somewhere I think, so bare with me.

Roleblock:
Starts off with Saint, who Roleblocks DBE (Doctoring Parama), saint passes it to q21 who has NOT claimed a target for N2, but passed it to Implossion who blocked NC night 3 who died via purge with no abilities.

q21 needs to claim a target for N2

Purge:
The million dollar question. N1 chk was purged, N2 RC was purged, N3 NC was purged. No one was claimed the purge ability other than DGB, of course after he nailed scum. Now the interesting thing is if you read DGB's ISO #29-#36 it is pretty obvious who DGB wants dead. ISO #25 seems to be sidestepping the issue of passing. In his ISO #95 DGB claims to have had nothing N3, but I think it is pretty obvious he killed Nero. The missing nail in this coffin is if anyone sent him the purge ability after N1.

However, if DGB's ability is noncycling it makes the Vanilla/Ability numbers work out perfectly from Day 1.

I am pretty certain that DGB's ability is noncycling and he is a liar. Chances are he is SK.

BUT... If we want to eliminate the stump we need the NK from DGB... BUT... as long as the stump is in play DGB will continue to flaunt a free pass. I don't know the risk/reward ratio for leaving DGB alive.

Ability Cop:
Day 1 Bunny holds it and investigates MOI N1 who had no abilities. Bunny passes it to nhammen who investigates RC N2. Red Coyote returned a result of 1 ability, but died with 0. Nhammen indicates that this is because he controled the mafia NK that night. The NK that night was Diddin who TMH passed the Day Vig to. Nhammen passes to Saint who investigates q21 who turns up 0 abilities. This ability is pretty useless because results are easily fakable considering how much information we are laying on the table.

Re-Initialize:
I'll get to this later. Brain fog has set in.

[WrathChild]

Just a thought. If we lynch CKD and they flip Mafia it will confirm at least two townies. If we lynch DGB and she flips SK it will confirm no one. DGB, if she is an SK, will have ZERO passing restrictions. I think at least two confirmed townies are more beneficial then preventing the death of 1 by lynching the SK tonight. What if DGB hits scum tonight? How else are we going to get rid of the tresstump. I'm not the only one saying these things, but I wanted to reiterate them.

[WrathChild]

So if we are in agreement that CKD and DGB need to die, then we need to let DGB live and hopefully kill the stump. If DGB is truely town as she claims, her lynch tomorrow will still allow her to win the game.

[WrathChild]

Also, no one hates confirmed town more than scum, so yes they are useful.

[WrathChild]

DGB, can I get a clear statement on your ability to Purge? Is this something you possess indefinately?

[WrathChild]

I'm still following, but as I've mentioned I'm V/LA on weekends. I think we need to lynch CKD and move on. We've spent so much time discussing passing strategies and when we finally nail someone because of a failed pass we need to hang them. I say give DGB a chance to kill stump/scum if not, we lynch her tomorrow.

[WrathChild]

Also, I've asked several times and don't think I've missed a response.

Can we get an official statement from DGB regarding the nuances of her role? It's quite obvious it is not cycling, so I want to hear how she explains it out of her own mouth.

[WrathChild]

Oh, a valentines day lynch is sooooooooo romantic.

[WrathChild]

If this is true, then where is our freaking hammer? Someone please for the love of god lynch this guy already.

I'll report for duty at L-1!

[WrathChild]

Neighborizer (q21/nhammen -> implosion -> Pops -> Q21)

Is this right?

[WrathChild]

Wrathchild you just lost the game.

Expand?

[WrathChild]

Neighborizer (q21/nhammen -> implosion -> Pops -> Q21)

Is this right?

My bad:

Neighborizer (q21/nhammen -> implosion -> Pops -> CKD)

All scum look the same

[WrathChild]

Am I missing something here? Wouldn't this mean Pops is town?

[WrathChild]

I'm so confused.

[WrathChild]

Removed from the Game

Ability Redirector

(

TMH

->

Diddin

->RFG N2)

Doctor

(

DBE

->

Parama

->RFG D2)

Ability Remover

(

CHK

->RFG N1)

Double Voter

(

Powerox

-> RFG D1)

Watcher

(

muh

-> RFG Day 1)

Neighborizer

(

q21

->

implosion

->

Pops

->

CKD

-> RFG D4)

Treestump

(

Implosion

->

Curiouskarmadog

->

I Am Innocent

->

q21

-> RFG N4)

Claimed Abilities not RFG

Day Vig

(

diddin

->

themanhimself

(stole the ability) -> StrangerCoug -> WC -> ???)

Void Collector

((nobody D1) ->

I Am Innocent

-> StrangerCoug ->??? -> ???)

Hibernate

(

quadz08

->

MOI

/Void/Collected by

I Am Innocent

->

Implosion

->??? -> ???)

Tracker

(nhammen (CHK) ->

Implosion

(SC)->

I Am Innocent

(Bunny) -> ??? ->???)

Roleblock

(Saint (DBE) ->

q21

->

Implosion

(NC) -> ??? -> ???)

Purge

(DrippingGoofball)

Ability Cop

(bunny -> nhammen -> Saint -> ??? -> ???)

Re-Initialize

(

Pops

-> DGB -> LMP -> ??? -> ???)

Is this all correct?

[WrathChild]

Removed from the Game

Ability Redirector

(

TMH

->

Diddin

->RFG N2)

Doctor

(

DBE

->

Parama

->RFG D2)

Ability Remover

(

CHK

->RFG N1)

Double Voter

(

Powerox

-> RFG D1)

Watcher

(

muh

-> RFG Day 1)

Neighborizer

(

q21

->

implosion

->

Pops

->

CKD

-> RFG D4)

Treestump

(

Implosion

->

Curiouskarmadog

->

I Am Innocent

->

q21

-> RFG N4)

Claimed Abilities not RFG

Day Vig

(

diddin

->

themanhimself

(stole the ability) -> StrangerCoug -> WC -> ???)

Void Collector

((nobody D1) ->

I Am Innocent

-> StrangerCoug ->

IAI

-> ???)

Hibernate

(

quadz08

->

MOI

/Void/Collected by

I Am Innocent

->

Implosion

->??? -> ???)

Tracker

(nhammen (CHK) ->

Implosion

(SC)->

I Am Innocent

(Bunny) -> nhammen (DGB) -> ???)

Roleblock

(

Saint

(DBE) ->

q21

->

Implosion

(NC) ->

IAI

(Q21) -> ???)

Purge

(DrippingGoofball)

Ability Cop

(bunny -> nhammen ->

Saint

-> ??? -> ???)

Re-Initialize

(

Pops

-> DGB -> LMP ->

IAI

-> ???)

Is this all correct?

[WrathChild]

So 4 dead scum.

Scum is one of the remaining:
LMP
DGB
WC
Bunny
SC
nhammen

I know it's not me. DGB is probably an SK, so with 5 total scum, in a 25 player game we probably have a couple Daevori on our hands still.

[WrathChild]

2) I had Track last night, and since IAI had to be the one to send it to me, I decided to obey his instructions, and tracked DGB. Her two targets were q21 and LMP.

@DGB: Are you still claiming you didn't have the purge ability the night NC died? You claimed to have had it prior to that, correct? Either you passed it to scum (who refused to claim the NC kill) who then passed it back to you (HIGHLY IMPROBABLE) or you lied about not purging NC. Which is it? If you will now admit you purged NC, why did you lie about it?

I had an ability last night.

@WC: Why is pops in green? I don't see any red players passing to pops in that list. Am I missing it?

No, I just realized I erred.

[WrathChild]

Removed from the Game

Ability Redirector

(

TMH

->

Diddin

->RFG N2)

Doctor

(

DBE

->

Parama

->RFG D2)

Ability Remover

(

CHK

->RFG N1)

Double Voter

(

Powerox

-> RFG D1)

Watcher

(

muh

-> RFG Day 1)

Neighborizer

(

q21

->

implosion

-> Pops ->

CKD

-> RFG D4)

Treestump

(

Implosion

->

Curiouskarmadog

->

I Am Innocent

->

q21

-> RFG N4)

Claimed Abilities not RFG

Day Vig

(

diddin

->

themanhimself

(stole the ability) -> StrangerCoug -> WC -> ???)

Void Collector

((nobody D1) ->

I Am Innocent

-> StrangerCoug ->

IAI

-> ???)

Hibernate

(

quadz08

->

MOI

/Void/Collected by

I Am Innocent

->

Implosion

->??? -> ???)

Tracker

(nhammen (CHK) ->

Implosion

(SC)->

I Am Innocent

(Bunny) -> nhammen (DGB) -> ???)

Roleblock

(

Saint

(DBE) ->

q21

->

Implosion

(NC) ->

IAI

(Q21) -> ???)

Purge

(DrippingGoofball)

Ability Cop

(bunny -> nhammen ->

Saint

-> ??? -> ???)

Re-Initialize

(Pops -> DGB -> LMP ->

IAI

-> ???)

Is this all correct?

[WrathChild]

No, Pops is green because he passed to CKD

No because town can pass to scum. Scum can not pass to scum.

[WrathChild]

Roles that could determine a lack of scum teammates:

Treestump: Implosion ->

Curiouskarmadog

-> I Am Innocent ->

q21

REMOVED FROM GAME
Neighborizer:

q21

-> Implosion -> popsofctown ->

Curiouskarmadog

REMOVED FROM GAME

Day Vig:

diddin

->

themanhimself

(stole the ability) -> Void
Day Vig Continued: Recovered from Void by StrangerCoug -> WrathChild -> ?

Void Collector: (nobody D1) -> I Am Innocent -> StrangerCoug -> WrathChild -> ?

Hibernate:

quadz08

-> Void
Hibernate Continued: Recovered from Void by I Am Innocent -> Implosion ->

?

-> ?

Neighbor: popsofctown (Virus) -> DrippingGoofball (DoubleVoter) -> LynchMePls (Hibernate/IAI) -> I Am Innocent (Hibernate/Implosion) -> ?

Monitor: Bunnylover -> nhammen -> Saint ->

?

-> ?

Tracker: nhammen -> Implosion -> I Am Innocent (Bunny) -> nhammen (DGB) -> ?

Roleblock: Saint (DBE) ->

q21

-> Implosion (NC) -> I Am Innocent (q21) -> ?

Purge Ability?: ? -> DrippingGoofball -> ? -> DrippingGoofball -> ?

Confirmed non-Daevori

Implosion
I Am Innocent
popsofctown
Saint

I never had void collector

[WrathChild]

Also pops is not confirmed.

[WrathChild]

Removed from the Game

Ability Redirector

(

TMH

->

Diddin

->RFG N2)

Doctor

(

DBE

->

Parama

->RFG D2)

Ability Remover

(

CHK

->RFG N1)

Double Voter

(

Powerox

-> RFG D1)

Watcher

(

muh

-> RFG Day 1)

Neighborizer

(

q21

->

implosion

->

Pops

->

CKD

-> RFG D4)

Treestump

(

Implosion

->

Curiouskarmadog

->

I Am Innocent

->

q21

-> RFG N4)

Claimed Abilities not RFG

Day Vig

(

diddin

->

themanhimself

(stole the ability) -> StrangerCoug -> WC -> ???)

Void Collector

((nobody D1) ->

I Am Innocent

-> StrangerCoug ->

IAI

-> ???)

Hibernate

(

quadz08

->

MOI

/Void/Collected by

I Am Innocent

->

Implosion

->??? -> ???)

Tracker

(nhammen (CHK) ->

Implosion

(SC)->

I Am Innocent

(Bunny) -> nhammen (DGB) -> ???)

Roleblock

(

Saint

(DBE) ->

q21

->

Implosion

(NC) ->

IAI

(Q21) -> ???)

Purge

(DrippingGoofball)

Ability Cop

(bunny -> nhammen ->

Saint

-> ??? -> ???)

Re-Initialize

(

Pops

-> DGB -> LMP ->

IAI

-> ???)

Duh on the pops thing, someone conuddled me.

[WrathChild]

Guys don't make me cry.

I've done such good work here, I want to see all the scum dead in my lifetime. This is my best performance ever. I want to nail the last scum.

I like the work that DGB has done and I do NOT support her lynch. In fact, she is the biggest threat to the remaining scum.

We have AT LEAST 1 more Daevori, let's not waste the lynch on DGB and lynch mafia instead. If we fail, she'll kill the top suspect. If either of those flip scum, we will have tons more info. If none flip scum, there's bound to be enough new information to confirm the remaining scum. If all trails die, we lynch DGB in case she is the last remaining threat to the town.

Also, I say no on full claims.

[WrathChild]

Removed from the Game

Ability Redirector

(

TMH

->

Diddin

->RFG N2)

Doctor

(

DBE

->

Parama

->RFG D2)

Ability Remover

(

CHK

->RFG N1)

Double Voter

(

Powerox

-> RFG D1)

Watcher

(

muh

-> RFG Day 1)

Neighborizer

(

q21

->

implosion

->

Pops

->

CKD

-> RFG D4)

Treestump

(

Implosion

->

Curiouskarmadog

->

I Am Innocent

->

q21

-> RFG N4)

Claimed Abilities not RFG

Day Vig

(

diddin

->

themanhimself

(stole the ability) -> StrangerCoug -> WC -> ???)

Void Collector

((nobody D1) ->

I Am Innocent

-> StrangerCoug ->

IAI

-> ???)

Hibernate

(

quadz08

->

MOI

/Void/Collected by

I Am Innocent

->

Implosion

->??? -> ???)

Tracker

(nhammen (CHK) ->

Implosion

(SC)->

I Am Innocent

(Bunny) -> nhammen (DGB) -> ???)

Roleblock

(

Saint

(DBE) ->

q21

->

Implosion

(NC) ->

IAI

(Q21) -> ???)

Purge

(DrippingGoofball)

Ability Cop

(bunny -> nhammen ->

Saint

-> ??? -> ???)

Re-Initialize

(

Pops

-> DGB -> LMP ->

IAI

-> ???)

Duh on the pops thing, someone conuddled me.

This means that the remaining scum is in this group:
-nhammen
-bunnylover
-LMP
-SC
-WC

I will look into the details in a few, but my intial guess is that scum is either pushing for a DGB lynch or Mass Role Claim.

[WrathChild]

Removed from the Game

Ability Redirector

(

TMH

->

Diddin

->RFG N2)

Doctor

(

DBE

->

Parama

->RFG D2)

Ability Remover

(

CHK

->RFG N1)

Double Voter

(

Powerox

-> RFG D1)

Watcher

(

muh

-> RFG Day 1)

Neighborizer

(

q21

->

implosion

->

Pops

->

CKD

-> RFG D4)

Treestump

(

Implosion

->

Curiouskarmadog

->

I Am Innocent

->

q21

-> RFG N4)

Claimed Abilities not RFG

Day Vig

(

diddin

->

themanhimself

(stole the ability) -> VOID -> StrangerCoug -> WC -> ???)

Void Collector

((nobody D1) ->

I Am Innocent

-> StrangerCoug ->

IAI

-> ???)

Hibernate

(

quadz08

->

MOI

/Void/Collected by

I Am Innocent

->

Implosion

->??? -> ???)

Tracker

(nhammen (CHK) ->

Implosion

(SC)->

I Am Innocent

(Bunny) -> nhammen (DGB) -> ???)

Roleblock

(

Saint

(DBE) ->

q21

->

Implosion

(NC) ->

IAI

(Q21) -> ???)

Purge

(DrippingGoofball)

Ability Cop

(bunny -> nhammen ->

Saint

-> LMP -> ???)

Re-Initialize

(

Pops

-> DGB -> LMP ->

IAI

-> ???)

Slight Update

[WrathChild]

Also, should we ever get to a game state where there are only CONFIRMED players left, WE LYNCH POPS FIRST.

I'm

jealous

confused. Why pops first?

Cause I was pretty convinced he was scum?

Also, if we're not going with a massclaim, has everyone satisfied our standard claiming? IE shouldn't we be full claiming our N3 and declaring if we had/didn't an ability last night? What exactly are we supposed to claim?

All actions and states should be claimed EXCEPT who was passed to N4. This should include Night action results from N4.

N3 I Doc protected IAI with the reuser ability. I then passed it to IAI. N4 I had the Monitor ability. I monitored q21, and he had an ability.

Why would you monitor Q21? You knew he had an ability and was about to die. Seems convienent to announce results after they were made public.

[WrathChild]

Ok, I don't like the way LMP is playing today. He is advocating lynching DGB AND having the Hibernator from last night claim. Having the Hibernator claim basically means that there is a better chance of scum killing tonight because they will know who to target. We have no guarantee of a correct Doc or block to protect the person that claimed hibernator tonight. I don't like that IAI who is confirmed town is pushing this, but I like even less that LMP is on-board for it.

[WrathChild]

My suggestion is lynch LMP, Roleblock Bunny, Purge SC

[WrathChild]

Why would you monitor Q21? You knew he had an ability and was about to die. Seems convienent to announce results after they were made public.

Didn't we all know that Q21 had the Tree Stump ability?

My point exactly

[WrathChild]

I would support swapping SC and LMP in my ultimate plan.

That would make it:

Lynch SC, Roleblock Bunny, Purge LMP.

[WrathChild]

DGB has been nothing but amazing for the town. I say give her another shot tonight.

[WrathChild]

PS, we could always switch Bunny with LMP if people think we can believe the NK was stopped by him.

[WrathChild]

Guys don't make me cry.

I've done such good work here, I want to see all the scum dead in my lifetime. This is my best performance ever. I want to nail the last scum.

I like the work that DGB has done and I do NOT support her lynch. In fact, she is the biggest threat to the remaining scum.

We have AT LEAST 1 more Daevori, let's not waste the lynch on DGB and lynch mafia instead. If we fail, she'll kill the top suspect. If either of those flip scum, we will have tons more info. If none flip scum, there's bound to be enough new information to confirm the remaining scum. If all trails die, we lynch DGB in case she is the last remaining threat to the town.

Also, I say no on full claims.

NO NO NO NO.
This is just a ploy to where we will get into the situation of either to lynch said unconfirmed townie or lynch DGB. This would be scum dreamland because if DGB is the SK they have the chance to win even after all his/her buddies have fall.
I refuse to allow DGB to live, unless we are lynching you who I am more then confident will flip the last scum based on this.

With 10 alive, we lynch 1 (9), NK (8), Purge (7) and one remaining scum we have nothing to lose by letting DGB live.

[WrathChild]

Even with 2 remaining scum we are fine.

[WrathChild]

Even with 2 scum and 1 SK we are fine.

[WrathChild]

Removed from the Game

Ability Redirector

(

TMH

->

Diddin

->RFG N2)

Doctor

(

DBE

->

Parama

->RFG D2)

Ability Remover

(

CHK

->RFG N1)

Double Voter

(

Powerox

-> RFG D1)

Watcher

(

muh

-> RFG Day 1)

Neighborizer

(

q21

->

implosion

->

Pops

->

CKD

-> RFG D4)

Treestump

(

Implosion

->

Curiouskarmadog

->

I Am Innocent

->

q21

-> RFG N4)

Claimed Abilities not RFG

Day Vig

(

diddin

->

themanhimself

(stole the ability) -> VOID -> StrangerCoug -> WC -> ???)

Void Collector

((nobody D1) ->

I Am Innocent

-> StrangerCoug ->

IAI

-> ???)

Hibernate

(

quadz08

->

MOI

/Void/Collected by

I Am Innocent

->

Implosion

->??? -> ???)

Tracker

(nhammen (CHK) ->

Implosion

(SC)->

I Am Innocent

(Bunny) -> nhammen (DGB) -> ???)

Roleblock

(

Saint

(DBE) ->

q21

->

Implosion

(NC) ->

IAI

(Q21) -> ???)

Purge

(DrippingGoofball)

Ability Cop

(bunny -> nhammen ->

Saint

-> LMP -> ???)

Re-Initialize

(

Pops

-> DGB -> LMP ->

IAI

-> ???)

Slight Update

Dead (if scum) LMP confirms 0
Dead (if scum) SC confirms WC
Dead (if scum) nhammen confirms bunny
Dead (if scum) Bunny confirms nhammen

[WrathChild]

This almost indicates we should not lynch LMP

[WrathChild]

I'll go with the collective here, but I do so with a heavy heart. I think DGB has been a huge plus to the town and I don't see that changing, but I understand the risk. I think it's mostly paranoia, but I see why it is on the table.

VOTE: DGB

[WrathChild]

Shit, was about to unvote. If the treestump truely goes back into play we have no way of eliminating it.