Mini 1105: A Mafia Invasion! (Game Over)

[VP Baltar]

'bout time

Vote: Tasky

Happy New Year, scumface.

[VP Baltar]

Fuck you, hippie. I'm filled with the cheer of the season and need to kill.

[VP Baltar]

Unvote, Vote: mute

[VP Baltar]

I seduce the women?

Why was I not informed of this?

[VP Baltar]

How important do you think early game bandwagons are mute?

[VP Baltar]

You typically study patterns of speech to find scum? I'm not sure I follow. Can you give me an example? Can you also expound on how that example relates to bandwagons?

[VP Baltar]

They terk er jerbs!


*ahem*

@Tasky, why is it "lol" for VV to say that about you? Are you curious as to why he thinks you're the scummiest or is it too self-evidently ludicrous to even ask? Also, since you're apparently not the scummiest person here, who is and why?

[VP Baltar]

Ross for faulty premises. I see no way someone could believe someone could explain why they are town with good reasons.

Well, this is patently false. He asked you directly if you were being serious or not. In fairness, you dodged his question and forced him to fill in the blanks. If you've never played together, who is to say he wouldn't take you seriously and think you were just being silly? I don't find it scummy at all for Ross to believe that.

Also, do you feel that others should see you as self-evidently town right now?

[VP Baltar]

^ I don't get that vote at all AGar.

[VP Baltar]

unvote, Vote:robcapone

Which other games Guderian?

Excuse making may commence, Robby boy.

[VP Baltar]

Cool, rob shows up when his name is called. Lynch now please.

[VP Baltar]

Also, Ross, please get an avatar. Thanks.

[VP Baltar]

What specifically about Ross is "fishy"?

[VP Baltar]

Wow, you guys vote like moths in a lamplight. RobCapone is still scum though. He'll take whatever lynch is available to save his skin.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, so I'm rereading stuff to actually get invested in this game because the Ross vs. VV fight was putting me to sleep. Out of that whole thing, I just got that they were really talking past each other and didn't care about the other's alignment so much as being right. Meh to that whole mess.

Not sure if I believe Rob's story, but I hope he is telling the truth. In terms of:

VP - you realize I could have showed up tomorrow and you could easily say the same thing to me, doesn;t mean it is any true now than it would be tomorrow. I had just got home and was looking over my threads, I wasn't even going to post before I did all my stuff but I had a few minutes. and 2ndly would it have really been better for me to not say anything at all? When I am able to be on a computer and can get on MS I am going to play the game, you can look at my history, I do like to post alot when I am able to.

Well, no, that's not true at all actually. It wouldn't have been the same thing if you were too busy to post and couldn't make it until the next day. At least that looks like you're actually busy and not actively avoiding the thread. From my perspective, you got called out and then *poof* magically appeared to defend your lurking. The latter is suspicious and if you're claiming it's not, then you're not being objective about it.

What I find a little strange is that you seem to blame your lack of attention here to being busy in your other two games that were near lylo, but then you tack on that you hadn't bookmarked this game. You then return to the 2 other games excuse with pappums rat in post 86. What I'm bothered by is not that either of these aren't reasonable excuses (they are), but I would think bookmarking the game would actually be the bigger issue. How is being busy in your other two games even relevant when you had forgotten about this game altogether? I find that strange and a bit like you're overcompensating in your excuses. Even though you didn't bookmark this game, were you checking it still?

@ Ross - join date aside, how much mafia have you played and do you have an alt?

The Mute wagon shrank really fast. I think it had scum relieved to get RVS votes off a buddy.

On what basis is scum and why do you think Mute's buddies (both of them, really?) would RV him?

Notice who just switched votes. Notice who this comment is directed at. Notice who my vote is on.

Correct, You have correctly deduced I want Dizzle lynched.

heh, you're my favorite for this game so far.

Mute looks like poo that isn't paying attention to anything people are saying.

It definitely seemed like you were trying to allow mafia to come in with a quick hammer and your reason is horrible

^Imma buss my buddy.

Rob + Mute + ???? = Scum Forever

That being said:

I'm not really a fan of the Mute wagon here. I've been getting the feeling that his suspicions are genuine, even if it's just a gut feeling.

What? You don't get why people are voting for someone that hurriedly pushed someone to L-1 for incomprehensible reasons and then OMGUSed someone else for something that isn't even true? I'm not really a fan of your Mute defense here, even if it's just a gut feeling. Maybe Rob is town that just plays terribly....

I do not like how Guder is being so inconsistent. So, my voting for him stays.

ARE YOU READING THIS GAME? *ahem*

The fact that Mute has posted twice now and not moved his vote is scummy. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were skimming, but now you're intentionally not understanding. Here's a big hint: you're wrong.

Jerbs needs to comment on things that are actually happening recently. Things like Mute and Rob Capone come to mind.

so if you were being voted, you would just give up and be lynched?

Considering I said nothing of the sort, no.

You imply that I am scum and I want to take whatever lynch is available, however would somebody who is town not do the same thing? I am town and I don't want to be lynched so I am voting for the people who are actually doing things that are scummy.

Whole lot dissonance up in here. So you're saying you'll take any lynch, town or scum, to save your ass. Which you follow up by saying you're only voting people that are acting scummy. My point is that you're doing the former only, and no, I don't think that's a protown action. When you're town, your only goal is to lynch scum, not take whatever lynch is available to save your skin. Yes, your mislynch if you're town is bad, but it's no worse that mislynching someone else. When you're town and being wagoned wrongfully, you explain why your wagon is wrong and who you think is ACTUAL scum. So which is it, are you hunting scum here or trying not to get lynched?

Agar's vote was scummy
Mute putting somebody at L-1 is scummy

I don't really disagree, but then again you are just sheeping people to save yourself, right? I've yet to really see an original point from you that I thought was even halfway useful for finding scum.

What I do notice that both times mute's wagon gets a decent size you come in and divert attention, I won't draw any conclusions from that just yet but if mute does flip scum, I'll be sure to bring it back up.

wtf are you talking about?

you don't like the way I play? fair enough but come at me with something more tangible than a gut feeling or because I wasn't into this game as much as others I have been playing for a couple of weeks, those are really weak reasons for a bandwagon.

I never said anything about gut. The second reason is very valid. You downplaying it doesn't change that fact.

My votes outside of RVS come with real reasons, you don't like them? tell me why they are wrong.

You sheep people to save your skin. That's notsogood.

Tell me why Agar coming back from V/LA and jumps on the biggest bandwagon without really looking like she caught up is not scummy

Hint: I pointed this out first. Pay attention.

Tell me why mute putting somebody at L-1 without annoucing they are at L-1 is not scummy? I can tell you I can't recall a single game I have been in when the person putting a person at L-1 hasn't annouced it, so I don't know if it is a scum tell or not but not saying they are at L-1 does make for an accidental (or purposeful but claim to be accidental) hammer happen.

If Mute would have apologized and said she didn't realize I would not have had such an issue with it, but she didn't apologize for it.

Also, not your reasoning. ALSO, I never said I didn't think it was scummy.

I think the fact that the rosswilliam wagon has gone from 0--------> 6 ----------> 2 votes goes a long way in confirming the fact he is town. The lucidity of that wagon was astounding.

Possibly. My gut agrees, but you never know.

[VP Baltar]

you can look at my meta here and as HopOnMyJoystick

Wait, so you're an alt account. That's your main?

I can't really do anything to make you beleive my RL situation

I would still like you to explain the "bookmark" vs. "2 other busy games" point I brought up.

@VP: I just retracted my vote. Yes, I'm interpreting things differently from you.

Yes you did eventually, but it took you forever...which is really my point. You weren't trying to understand where Guderian was coming from, you were latching onto him with bad reasons and didn't want to let go.

VP, wouldn't this be considered sheeping too? You don't even verify if Gud is telling the truth, you just vote with him.

It's not sheeping because I've gone on to expand on the point myself and question you much deeper than Gud did. His point was a starting block, sure, but unlike your sheeping I'm actually doing some work by myself. In terms of verification, it was unnecessary at that immediate juncture. I did check later, but if Gud was scum and silly enough to lie about something like that it wouldn't take long to out him. Therefore, I had no imperative to track it down before my vote because in reality all I wanted to do was pressure you there and see how you squirmed.

re: the AGar vote - My post highlights how self-evidently nonsensical his vote was. It was after my pointing this out that lots of other people came in and criticized his vote, yourself included. I dont' think your accusation of it being opportunistic is entirely the same in that I never used those words, but I was pretty clearly saying that the vote was crap and poorly justified. There isn't really a different interpretation to what I said.

aehyrgaesthwtehteah I'm not getting the analogy

(it was a simile ) By that I mean, flighty--unable to stay moving in a single direction for more than a few seconds.

@VP: Meta on me would turn out weird. I joined the site a long while ago, play a game every once in a blue moon, and rarely do well. No alts

I'm not really trying to meta you. I just wanted to understand what your experience level is so I have a better grasp of what to expect from you as a player. Your answer is fine.

But you're scum with him Elli

(yes by like I mean think he is scum)

Well I dont mind. Wagon ahoy! We need to get this moving.

I'm not necessarily opposed to a Dizzle wagon. Why'd you leave the Rob wagon, btw?

@Tasky - yo, bro. I know you think it's witty and such to play snarky, but it's really unhelpful if you're actually town. It's just a distraction from the real scumhunting. So if you're town, put it aside for the game and give us a little contribution.

[VP Baltar]

Well, if it's not in the rules, then it's fair game as far as I know. Did you PM the mod to ask him about it?

[VP Baltar]

Bookmarks is how I find my game threads on firefox, I save the link so I can go right to the thread, can't figure out how to go to the last post just yet cause when I click on last post and save that, it takes me back to that post.

I got a pm from the mod with the game link, I came and posted my quick post and moved on, I forgot to bookmark the link to this game

If I could find an easier way to organize my games I'll do that but for now that's how I do it.

Bookmarks is definitely easier. Also, just to help you, if you want to go to the last post made in the thread, you need to click on the tiny little white page icon next to the posters name when you are looking at the thread title. That will automatically direct you to the last post.

I understand what you're saying about bookmarking and missing the thread because of that...I've done it before and it's legit. My point, however, is that you first said you didn't post here because you were very busy with 2 other games that were close to a lynch. I'm not sure why you said that when you are also saying that you simply forgot about the game because you didn't bookmark it. Why mention the 2 busy games?

[VP Baltar]

So what you're saying is that you had town vibes from everyone on the mute wagon at that point?

[VP Baltar]

@Rob, thank you. I understand what you meant in the first place now.

Unvote

Vote: Dizzle

@Jerbs - have you played with or ever read a game with Elli before?

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, I think it's best not to bother with Tasky's plan anyhow, as the mod just said it was forbidden by the rules. We don't need modkills and trying to break the setup isn't really in the spirit of the game of mafia anyhow.

[VP Baltar]

oi, Llamagod, what do you think about lynching dizzle for shizzle and gizzles?

[VP Baltar]

I guess that was a really dead internet.

People should be voting Dizzle until he shows up. And perhaps even after that.

[VP Baltar]

It's a fine art telling lurking from scum non-contribution and I'm mother frakking Michaelangelo.

[VP Baltar]

I'm not sure how Rob knows that his log on information is set to hidden...as far as I can tell, that's a private feature. Unless he told you or something.

[VP Baltar]

Too much WIFOM to determine what's going on with that. It's probably best to look and see if Dizzle is in other games. If he's not posting anywhere site-wide, it could just be a mistake on ross' part.

How sure are you it was Dizzle, Ross?

[VP Baltar]

I guess we'll see if dizzle shows up then, but I'm willing to lynch him today on it. This game is kind of stalling anyhow.

[VP Baltar]

Unvote, Vote: AGar

I really haven't liked any of the arguments AGar has made this game. I wish I could get into this game more than that so I'd say something poignant, but eh. We need a lynch soon. I will try to do some reading later.

[VP Baltar]

Hey, AGar, what do you think of Guderian's post 259?

[VP Baltar]

And in what regard do you disagree with it?

Why is it impossible for the Ross thing to simply be a human error?

[VP Baltar]

^give this kid a gold star

[VP Baltar]

Dizzle's early game content is a bit sketchy, but I'm willing to at least see if there's going to be a replacement there before making any decisions. I'm still more into Mute-scum (now Rain-scum).

I like how Dizzle's replacement gets the benefit of the doubt, but Mute's doesn't. Cause she was trying to sound like an IC and such.

Hey Jerbs, whatcha think of AGar?

How about:

Another note - I'm not liking the whole RW "I saw Dizzle online!" thing right now. It feels like there's a major inconsistency here, and it's pushing me towards a scummier read on RossWilliams, more solidified if Dizzle is to flip town.

Chaining lynches together for no conceivable reason?

- VP Baltar. No substantial reasoning behind this. Mostly gut.

I was liking you until I read this.

and this:

I would be really disappointed in a D1 Agar

kind of wondering what changed your mind there considering no real change in terribleness has come from AGar in the past two pages.

Only Player Slots never voting for Ross:
VP Baltar
Gud
Llama

^Town Alliance right there. Let's lynch AGar scum. Llama has been on the right track for awhile now, but you can still get on early Guderian.

I lied. I would now support an AGar lynch, but would still rather see Jerbs dead by tonight.

Yeah, you need to explain this better because AGar's been exaggerating that shit on RW and Mute all game...after which you said that you would never want to lynch him today. Now that his wagon gains steam, you do a miraculous 180. Do tell. Also, I'm taking back my gold star because I wasn't paying much attention earlier. Now I am and you've failed. hmph.

Elli and Tasky, get yo bidness up on this AGar wagon.

[VP Baltar]

I would prefer a Ross or Tasky lynch

I would rather lynch pappums rat

lulz

[VP Baltar]

What the fuck just happened....

I'm probably ok with Jerbs going. I want to do some reading to be certain, but I'll vote before today is up.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, I was thinking about it and I believe AGar was lynched by some scum ability that allowed them to immediately kill whoever was the leading wagon. This is only a possibility of course, but it seems much more likely than some kind of L-3 deficit on AGar. If that's the case:

1) The lynch could have been made to save Jerbs, who could have ended up as today's lynch.
2) It makes me slightly suspicious of Rob again, since he was the one that pushed AGar over the limit that would have resulted in his lynch.

I'm much more sure about 1 than 2 if that's the case. Regardless, I believe that the scum would not be able to use this ability more than once if it were present in this game, as it would be horribly unbalanced.

Also, and i"m only going to say this once and I do not want any discussion about it, AGar's mason buddy should only claim if he/she gets run up to lynch range. Barring some useful information you have that would indicate scum, claiming mason right now isn't that useful for us. I believe we should be able to determine the believability of a mason claim based upon interaction, so a scum counterclaim later is likely to fail. So, let's just keep playing as if AGar flipped VT and leave it at that for now. NO TALKING ABOUT THIS.

If someone has a counter theory as to what happened with AGar, I would definitely be interested in hearing it.

[VP Baltar]

If that's the case, then that person is an idiot. NO MORE TALKING ABOUT VIGS EITHER.

[VP Baltar]

Or it was actually done to save Jerbs. Simplest explanation is generally the correct one. If scum did have a one shot ability like I described, the best play they could do would be to save it for a lylo situation to win a day early. So, I think it's either Jerbs was saved or it's what Rain described and the person is just an idiot.

[VP Baltar]

To say his death is stupid AFTER he died is easy to do but until you know if it was a scum kill or a town kill it means nothing and we move on

Not really, it was a pretty stupid. I'd have said that BEFORE he was killed even, had anyone cared to ask.

Why would I use a one-shot ability on Agar?

Agar was pretty close to getting lynched

, and I would know that he's town, so why kill him early?

I never said you specifically took the shot. Bolded the problem in your entire argument, he was hardly closer to getting lynched than you were. I could have seen it going either way before deadline really.

[VP Baltar]

Unvote, Vote: Jerbs

L-1

And you're probably the only viable lynch at this point, so you might need to claim if someone is willing to hammer.

[VP Baltar]

If the scum had an ability to kill the leading wagon and thought it would end the day.

[VP Baltar]

Is there any question as to your sanity Jerbs?

[VP Baltar]

ok now so a lot has happened today since I last checked in, just reading through the one thing that stood out in my mind is VP was pushing hard for an Agar lynch, even asking Jerbs his thoughts on Agar at one point, Agar gets killed and flips mason and than has a 180 and acts like the Agar kill was the stupidest thing ever(really? you were pushing for his lynch VO) and now he thinks this was a scum plot that backfired and Jerbs is scum.

I'm not saying lynching Agar would have been stupid...killing him at L-3 is. I'm not speaking in complex terms here. Killing a player without a roleclaim is stupid. I shouldn't have to keep explaining this to you.

Also, fuck off with your chaining lynches together. This is why I get tired of playing with noobs that go 'oh man, regardless of what this guy flips tomorrow, you're going to look bad'. First, you don't know what he's going to flip and second, that's not how you play this game effectively. Stop doing it.

Waiting on Zach.

[VP Baltar]

no.

[VP Baltar]

Bah (sarcasm)

[VP Baltar]

wooooooooo

I was getting worried there when everyone was calling Rob town, but apparently he only needed mild pressure to simply give up. Player of the game goes to Empking.

[VP Baltar]

Well, yeah, you could have actually. Giving up is pretty poor play just for future reference. It's playing against your win condition and considered poor form in many a players' books.

[VP Baltar]

Meh, that's your choice, but you're not winning any favors playing like that. Things change in mafia rapidly. You made a bad kill choice last night, but there was still plenty of lynch fodder for you to win here. You only needed to survive like two or three days I think. I mean, play as you like, but giving up is still really poor form.

p.edit

@GreyICE - I was raging at you when you came into the game. You win the honorary scum award.

[VP Baltar]

I'm probably somewhat biased because I knew everything shortly after I died, but I probably still found you scummy enough to lynch after the Zdenek kill had I been alive.

[VP Baltar]

I don't know if I would have lynched you, but I probably would have wanted to run you up so I could see your reaction to it. PRat looked like a lost townie to me though for most of the game. He's exactly the kind of target I expect scum to go after for an easy lynch. Plus after Zde flipped scum, it very much looked like you were trying to get a counter wagon away from him going. Of course, this is all circumstantial in hindsight, but I probably wouldn't have been so friendly toward you at that point.

[VP Baltar]

I really didn't get the LL lynch at all, btw. Here is the Dead QT for those interested.

[VP Baltar]

Speaking of which, dayvigging me was actually a pretty smart choice. Yeah, a townie died, and I RAAAAAGED but it also made way for the Jerbs lynch and eventually cleared Pappums.

I would argue that Jerbs would have been lynched had you simply been able to claim and the wagon on you dissolved.