Mini 1105: A Mafia Invasion! (Game Over)

[LlamaGod]

Hello,
We are Llamarble and FakeGod.
We can sign posts individually, assuming that is preferred.
VOTE: VP Baltar
His seduceallthewomens power is too dangerous.

-llama

PS: Avatar soon.

[LlamaGod]

Yikes

L-1

Noone hammer.

[LlamaGod]

The Mute wagon shrank really fast. I think it had scum relieved to get RVS votes off a buddy.
Mute also has just placed an unannounced L-1 vote (L-2 wasn't announced either so she can share the scumpoints with Dizzle).
Her reasoning is extremely limited and it looks like hope for an unintentional hammer.
I don't like the Rosswilliam wagon much. He hasn't done anything I see as scummy.
He doesn't want to get lynched. Nobody does. He doesn't want to be a VI. OK.
He certainly could still be scum, but the wagon on him seems very large for this early.
I felt like unnecessary effort at looking-town was put into Mute's early posts.
Agar seems to agree.

Vote: Mute

FOS: Dizzle for a similar approach to the RW wagon.

-llama

[LlamaGod]

Since it's a new page I'll go ahead and make sure Guderian's message doesn't get missed.

Take your god damn votes of RossWilliam.

At least announce

L-1

as well.

No excuses for quickhammering.

[LlamaGod]

Apparently I (llama) am to be the face of the hydra for now. Our Godhead is Fakegod. Avatar is figured out, just having upload issues.

When I said we should get some votes off of RW, I meant enough to remove the unintentional quickhammer possibility.
All these wagons seem to be appearing/disappearing very rapidly.

I don't worry too much about sheeping; if somebody says something I agree with, it makes sense to follow them.

[LlamaGod]

Dizzle's unanounced L-2 is about as careless as Mute's unannounced L-1.
He's also been contributing less and pairing "what's up with mute" with an unvote felt weird to me.
Pappum's Rat gave me some scumvibes with his happiness over how scummy Mute/Dizzle look.
That post felt like scum grinning to themselves over how scummy the townies looked.
I'm hoping to hear more from my other head.

Your point that 'scumbuddies unvoting explaining the shifty wagons is farfetched' makes sense.
That would imply Mute is scum, a buddy or two RVed and then felt antsy about it and unvoted, all of which aren't super high-percentage.

[LlamaGod]

Hrm, we are starting to think Pappums and/or Jerbs are likely scum. Will elaborate tomorrow.

[LlamaGod]

I've had bad experiences using "saw X lurker online" as a tell, but if RW is making that up it's a different business entirely. I'll think more about that. Goodnight.

Tomorrow is RL tomorrow not game tomorrow.

[LlamaGod]

Jerbs seems to be scum using RW's case as an excuse to justify an easy vote. Most of his other posting lacks scumhunting content as well, and there are a number of them of considerable length.

For example:

I've had bad experiences using "saw X lurker online" as a tell, but if RW is making that up it's a different business entirely. I'll think more about that. Goodnight.

Tomorrow is RL tomorrow not game tomorrow.

1. He's town and making it up
2. He's scum and making it up
3. He's town and telling the truth
4. He's scum and telling the truth

The first point makes absolutely no sense, so thats prob not it.

The 2nd point makes sense because Dizzle would be an easy mislynch target, unless they are scumbuddies in which then it would be bussing/distancing
The 3rd would make sense because he is trying to help town by giving info about dizzle
The 4th point makes sense because dizzle would be an easy mislynch target unless they're buddies, which would then mean bussing/distancing

From my experience, scum loves to post something logically correct to take up forum space and make it seem like they are not lurking. This post is pretty much content-free, except mentioning it's unlikely RW is lying town (obvious).

Unvote; Vote Jerbs

[LlamaGod]

Starting to feel a Jerbs/Agar/?? scumteam.
Explanation:
The following looks like lining up an RW mislynch for after a Dizzle mislynch.

Another note - I'm not liking the whole RW "I saw Dizzle online!" thing right now. It feels like there's a major inconsistency here, and it's pushing me towards a scummier read on RossWilliams, more solidified if Dizzle is to flip town.

The logic in this next post isn't strong enough for the wording it gets. I don't see any "Egregiously bad response" or buying into a terrible response here. Dizzle's "Are you indeed freaking out" sounds weird but not particularly scummy. All that happens is Mute gets told he's freaking out, says he's not, and discussion moves on. I don't see how there was more to discuss, so I don't see why a followup is expected from Dizzle here. Overall this seems fake and is part of a pattern of pseudotunneling Mute. It also looks out of place in his ISO as it is bracketed by two posts seeming to have a dizzle-is-town-attitude.

Rob, I think it's completely plausible that Mute/Dizzle could be scum together.

Dizzle opens up with a random vote on Mute. Easily gives him at least some acknowledgement of the slot. In post 61, Dizzle puts a little faux-distancing act on between himself and Mute. 2 posts later, Mute just brushes any semblance of pressure on him from myself and Dizzle aside with a simple "Nope." Dizzle's next post features him buying into this egregiously bad response and moving his fixation onto RossWilliam.

Unless I'm missing something, I see no reason why Dizzle-Mute (now Rain, who should really get in here soon) can't be a plausible scumteam.

Townies simply don't always follow up on their actions. Especially not with a specific discussion of the result of a specific way of poking at somebody. This feels like more semitunneling with a case I don't buy.

AGar: Yes, I overstepped my bounds by forcing someone to contribute to the game by paraphrasing an SE from my newbie game. I used that to gauge his reaction and see where he fell on my bar of scum/town. I'll use whatever methods I've got to find people that (I feel) are scum.

Mute, I'mma let you finish and all, but... --

I have no clue where the fuck to go with that meme.

Anywho, the problem here is that I'm calling bullshit on you "using that to gauge his reaction and see where he fell on your bar of scum/town." 100% Grade A 0/100 Lean Bullshit. Lay it on thick there bud.

Why? because you've made 0 comment on the "outcome" of you "gauging his reaction" since that post.

Keep trying.

More mute votes, please and thanks.

Later he calls out Rain for not holding tasky to the same standard he is holding Jerbs to.

Jerbs' post about Dizzle doesn't really take "town making a mistake" into account. Both Jerbs and Agar have tended to attack players I am now leaning town on.

[LlamaGod]

Gwappa Gwappa Gwappa.
I want one of Pappums/Agar/Jerbs lynched today.
I don't see RW making the saw-dizzle-online thing up as scum and I see his wagon as extremely appealing to scum who can say "but we caught him being wrong, so I had no choice but to vote him."
Those three have all individually been scummy before this business.
Tasky, please help us out with some actual content, and Zdenek please give them some attention in your catch up post.

[LlamaGod]

PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT VOTING: THERE ARE 3 DAYS UNTIL DEADLINE. MAKE YOURSELVES USEFUL AND VOTE JERBS/AGAR.

I understand that RW can't have seen what he claimed to have seen.
It just doesn't feel at all like something scum would do intentionally, so I lean toward mistake rather than lie.
Guderian's 259 actually makes a lot of sense to me; I don't see who Ross' buddies would be.

Lets run one of Agar/Jerbs up to L-1 and hear a claim tomorrow so we can think about it for a day before lynching.

Additions to cases in next post.

[LlamaGod]

I find Pappum's rat sketchy, but he isn't as scummy nor as informative a lynch as Jerbs/Agar.
Ellibereth looks a bit dubious too, but that's more from links between players than from individual scumminess so it can wait for tomorrow.

I do feel town alliancey, especially if we hit scum today.
I don't know if Jerbs' last post is deliberately trying to make townAgar look like his scumbuddy or just panicked bussing.
Leaning toward the latter.
The "I prefer every other conceivable wagon but am voting here" stuff is indeed funny.

[LlamaGod]

Yuck, that's unfortunate.
Seeing one of my biggest scumreads flip town makes me less certain about my reads.
I still think we should lynch Jerbs today, though.
All the "I prefer all other wagons" talk sounds like he had foreknowledge of the flip and wanted to avoid looking too bad for being on the wagon.
It also may have been an attempt to make Agar sound like his scumbuddy in the event that he got lynched instead.
Hopefully Jerbs flips scum and we have a wagon-vs-counterwagon scenario to pick scum off of.

[LlamaGod]

Zdenek is looking rather obviously like Jerbsbuddy #1.
He didn't mention Jerbs when catching up despite Jerbs being more important than most topics.
He was on Agar's wagon, which looked like a counterwagon to protect Jerbs.
Now he and Jerbs are both trying to use the pretty much ridiculous suggestion that scum were responsible for the daykill to protect Jerbs.
Several other players got to L-smallnumber today, so unless they're all scum I find it unlikely the power that killed Agar was a scum votecountbased PR.
It's also unlikely relatively unlikely to have been a mafia assassin as Agar was at that point pretty much the most useful/informative target.
Jerbs' vote on Dizzle earlier came after he was instructed to by ellibereth and while there was claimed proof of Dizzlescum, so I see a possible bus there.

We need a claim from Jerbs and a Jerbs lynch unless he claims the other mason role or something like that.

[LlamaGod]

Jerbs, claim please.

[LlamaGod]

Any breadcrumbs?

[LlamaGod]

I'd say given the Masons and daykiller, there are maybe 1 or 2 other town PRs.
Since Jerbs was getting lynched, and I specifically pointed out he'd be lynched barring a PR claim, I think scumJerbs claims a PR.
That means, assuming 3-4 scum, that Jerbs is at least 60% scum at this point.
That's more than twice the odds of finding scum otherwise (~25-30%), so I'd say we should still lynch him.

Cop is also particularly easy for scum to claim because they can give legitimate answers.

[LlamaGod]

Hrm, I hadn't thought about nonguaranteed sanity, that would make cop/vig more likely.
Jerbs, is sanity mentioned in your role PM?

[LlamaGod]

damn I hate when there is any sort of weather condition because my DSL takes a crap, not going to be able to do the readthrough that I wanted on my phone but I am going back to my earlier vote

That last post by Jerbs has me scratching my head

FOS: Jerbs

Vote Agar

I had thought you might be town for thinking Tasky's statement made him town, but now you want to lynch Tasky or Pappums instead of Jerbs? These are the same people Jerbs is pushing. And until just now I don't see Pappums suspicion from Rob.

So that means a Rob/Zdenek/Jerbs scumteam would make immense sense to me.

[LlamaGod]

Yeah, looking back everyone who has been voting Rob at somepoint are my town reads and Rob was on both of the sketchiest wagons (Agar & RW)

[LlamaGod]

As far as percentage plays are concerned, I think the fact that Jerbs is significantly more likely than any other player to be mafia, is the most informative lynch, and is probably not useful even if town (scum could just NK jerbstown since cop/doc/dayvig seems really unlikely without a scum roleblocker or similar) mean we should lynch him today.

[LlamaGod]

Gut still says Jerbbbbs is town.
But what the hell: intention to hammer claim yaddiyaddiyaddiyaddi...

Am I the only one that thinks Rosswilliam almost basically has to be scum now given that Agar just proved that he was lying...? I only searched for a little bit through the D names but I don't see which ones that he could have confused with Dizzle that would have been logged on and showing it...

qethqethqeth

Unvote, Vote Ross

jerby, still claim. Unless these people suddenly decide to become my mindpuppets and change wagons.

this is probably the scummiest thing i have seen all game. 'what the hell' is no reason to unvote someone you suspect is scum, especially when they are at l-1 and people have requested a claim. my guess is ellibereth forgot his vote was on jerbs and then realized he was about to get lynched if he didnt unvote. i would say these two are scumbuddies. telling jerbs to claim after unvoting him is absurd, the whole idea of claiming is to avoid getting lynched, and when pressure is taken off there is inevitably a reduced chance of actually getting a claim. jerbs + ellibereth = scum.

and trying to figure out why agar was killed is futile. there is no point in going into that topic as there is no way to know what the person who killed him was thinking. there are so many possibilities as to who killed him and why that it is just a waste of time and nothing will be gleaned from it.

Uh, he unvoted Zdenek.

[LlamaGod]

Excellent. If Jerbs flips scum and I wake up dead tomorrow look very closely at Zdenek/Rob as potential buddies.

[LlamaGod]

Pappums is somewhat scummy and I will look more closely at that, but I really like this situation:
After I have demanded an Agar or Jerbs lynch, several people show up to vote Agar to ensure it is he and not Jerbs who will be lynched. This is what I mean when I say Agar looks like a counterwagon; I created a situation where it was extremely likely one of two players would be lynched, one of whom was scum. This heavily incentivized the Jerbsbuddies to get on the other wagon. This is a primary reason I find it extremely likely one or both of Rob/Zdenek is scum.

11th vote count of day 1:

AGar - 4 (VP Baltar, Zdenek, Jerbs, Robcapone)
Jerbs - 3 (Tasky, Rain, Llamagod)
Zdenek - 2 (Guderian, Ellibereth)
Rosswilliam - 2 (AGar, Pappums rat)
Pappums rat - 1 (Vigilante Ventrioquist)

Not voting: 1 (Rosswilliam)

With 13 alive it's 7 to lynch

Zdenek's case against me appears to be that I did pro town stuff I do whenever the situation calls for it, noticed the situation above, and said the following (Now presented for your viewing pleasure With More Context!!)

Starting to feel a Jerbs/Agar/?? scumteam.
Explanation:
The following looks like lining up an RW mislynch for after a Dizzle mislynch.

Another note - I'm not liking the whole RW "I saw Dizzle online!" thing right now. It feels like there's a major inconsistency here, and it's pushing me towards a scummier read on RossWilliams, more solidified if Dizzle is to flip town.

I thought Agar was more likely to be scum because he was trying to say one player's town flip would make another scummier, which is an ideal way for scum to line up two mislynches.

I also read that post you made, and I'll quote it here for you.

If the scum had an ability to kill the leading wagon and thought it would end the day.

Under the assumption that this was a scum killing, which I think is unlikely in the first place, I think it is much more likely that scum killed Agar to ensure a Jerbs' lynch (since he was the competing wagon at the time), than the scum didn't understand their role and killed Agar to try to save Jerbs.

So you say if scum were responsible for Agar's killing then Jerbs is probably not scum. Therefore you are using VP's reasoning to protect Jerbs, which is what I said.

Zdenek is looking rather obviously like Jerbsbuddy #1.
He didn't mention Jerbs when catching up despite Jerbs being more important than most topics.
He was on Agar's wagon, which looked like a counterwagon to protect Jerbs.
Now he and Jerbs are both trying to use the pretty much ridiculous suggestion that scum were responsible for the daykill to protect Jerbs.

I didn't mention everything in my catchup post. In my read through, I didn't find too much remarkable about Jerbs. I have in my notes that he made a useless post and a post that seemed too logical.

I have never suggested that scum used the day-kill to protect Jerbs. In fact, I was actively questioning VP about this suggestion.

You are confused. I am not saying this. I am saying YOU are using "the suggestion of scum responsibility" to protect Jerbs. Clear?

Finally, I said to be suspicious of Rob/Zdenek if I died last night. I suppose it's planning future lynches, but it's because I think Jerbscum makes Zdenek or Rob very likely to be scum and I wanted to make sure people knew my insights in case I died. That was my motivation.

Lots of reading to do given the two flips before I update scumreads. Expect that tomorrow or Tuesday.

[LlamaGod]

Okay, time for some rereading. I want to see who makes most sense as Jerbsbuddies.
Rain makes a good point that Elli was in the group favoring Agar over Jerbs lynch, so add him to the Rob/Zdenek list of counterwagonpushers (Though he said he preferred a Dizzle or RW lynch to either).

HEY ME TOO. Except that I still kinda think it's scummy, but I'm going all confirmation bias on Dizzlescum for a little bit more.
I actually have to look at Jerbs again. Something's been ringing town in me. May just have been his avatar...
and Agar, but without the town part.

This came after I started attacking Agar/Jerbs but before it was clear one of them would be the day's lynch.

[LlamaGod]

I need to think more about Ross because he clearly said something that wasn't true (I'd been thinking mistake, but maybe he and Jerbs were both scum? need to read more) and "gosh, I really really think Jerbs was town" sounds totally ingenuine.

Just ISOed Rob. His posting sounds good/has a town feel, but who he is suspicious of at different times seems to make more sense if he's scum and he was not pro Jerbslynch even near the end, suggesting Tasky and Pappums as alternatives despite not showing a whole lot of interest in either of them previously. This conveniently agreed with who Jerbs was suspicious of and Pappums was the player I had most recently expressed willingness to lynch other than Jerbs/Agar, so he seemed like a good candidate for a new counterwagon.

I'll also requote this:

damn I hate when there is any sort of weather condition because my DSL takes a crap, not going to be able to do the readthrough that I wanted on my phone but I am going back to my earlier vote

That last post by Jerbs has me scratching my head

FOS: Jerbs

Vote Agar

Then there's this from Jerbs.

Rosswilliamcasestuff

Vote: RossWilliam

@VV

Why would RossWilliam being scum make Tasky town? They just got into a little argument. That has no influence on whether or not they are scum or town

@Rob

Where are you? It's clear you're posting elsewhere. Lurking is bad for town, and a common way for scum to hide

FOS: Rob

So we have what could be bidirectional FOS:scumbuddy, vote somebody else. Also Jerbs was pushing hard enough on Ross to make me think the two weren't scumbuddies, but that's hard to be sure on.

At this point I think Rob is not unlikely to be scum, particularly since both of those FOSes seem to be of the "you just did something scummy, I'm not going to vote you yet but step up your game!" variety. Robscum would also explain the baltarkill pretty well; Baltar was clearly suspicious of Rob after Rob said Baltar would look suspicious regardless of how the lynch went down.

[LlamaGod]

2. Nobody made a convincing case on Jerbs, you can go back and look at my history and I do not normally just vote for somebody without a valid reason and

I still don't see one even after his lynch

and I know he is scum, he had me fooled.

The biggest issue I had with it was the whole speculation of the day kill by VP and than how he hopped on the Jaerbs wagon late, I was so sure he was trying to

Bus his buddy

, I try not to rely on speculation very much and that is basically what the Jerbs wagon came from.

hahahahaha... (emphasis mine)
please lynch this scum. thank you.

Oh this is really good, I didn't get it the first time. Rob claims he thought VP was bussing a buddy even before the lynch (implying a fair amount of certainty of scumJerbs) but didn't see any convincing case on Jerbs.
VOTE: Robcapone

[LlamaGod]

Rob is at L-3. There is a lot more to think about before anybody is dayvigged or lynched though.

Response to Rob: sure, there was not an immense amount of case put down against Jerbs; a lot of it was just the world making more sense if he was scum, which is hard to put down / explain. However, his bandwagoning, analysis of the RW situation, and "I would prefer all possible lynches over each other and over the one I am voting for" posts were scummy by themselves as well. The fact that he was against the Jerbs lynch while believing Baltar was bussing Jerbs is where the contradiction Tasky pointed out comes in.

I was eager for Jerbs to claim because I was hoping to get him to Fakeclaim mason, which would make him obvscum considering his willingness to lynch Agar. I was also hoping to get sanity information after he claimed cop because the rules allow only one non normal role in a mininormal and the daykiller is definitely that, so an insane cop would be forbidden by the rules and a "cop of unknown sanity" claim would also confirm him as scum. Basically I wanted his claim so I could try to pull it apart. I was happy he claimed a PR because I think scum tend to claim PRs D1 so a claimed PR is 50/50 scum at least.

This is also interesting.

Fos dizzle

Ill hold offvoting til mod prods him and he has time to respond

P. Edit

Click on his name, his last login is blank

That's setup in the user control panel

I know cause mine has been set like that since I joined this site

Why does Dizzle get the FOS right after Rob has pointed out RW couldn't have seen Dizzle online?
RW could still be scum, he was anti Jerbs lynch and I didn't see anything in his or Jerbs' ISO to convince me he's town other than some early back and forth which could as easily have been distancing as jabbing at a townie.

[LlamaGod]

He is Rob in the last sentence of that second paragraph, sorry if that was confusing.
I guess I should do one of those mod ISO color the votecounts things that seem to work pretty well for catching scum.

Reads (yeah shopping list etc. but I think the scum can figure it out anyway)
Town:
VV, Tasky, Llama, Empking

Medium town:
Rain

Medium:
Pappums, RW

Medium-scum:
Elli

Scummy
Zden, Rob

[LlamaGod]

We should not quickhammer/vig Rob; this is a pretty information-rich game and we should use our analysis time.
Rob is at

L-2

.
I hope to hear from VV soon.

[LlamaGod]

Hrm, now leaning toward Zdenek or Ellibereth as scummier than Rob;
I agree with Emp that Rob's defense has been good so far.
Rob's tone and specifics haven't bothered me, it's just his actions seem consistent with scum.
I can see how his FOS on Jerbs after a weird post makes sense with preferring other lynches.
Zdenek seems scummy due to being on the wrong wagons, attacking me today, not mentioning Rob when he's the main topic of discussion (hoping he'll get lynched instead, I'd guess), not mentioning Jerbs substantially yesterday, Jerbs' interaction with Dizzle looking like scum trying to get a buddy to post more...
I would believe Ellibereth/Zdenek/Jerbs since Ellibereth seems like the type to be fully willing to bus.
My other head thinks Elli is scum and is unsure about Zden; thinks he may be misguided town.
We need more RW here. He was caught either being wrong or lying and needs to explain himself and contribute more.

Unvote; vote ZDENEK

[LlamaGod]

Uh, this
"Just ISOed Rob. His posting sounds good/has a town feel, . . ."
Is a LAUGHABLY OBSCENE MISREPRESENTATION because in the rest of that post I make a case against Rob.
THE NEXT WORD AFTER THAT QUOTED BIT IS "BUT"
Rob was on my list of scumreads since Jerbs flipped scum.
On my most recent reread I could see how he would behave as he has as town, and I feel he has defended well.
And part of the reason for my townread on Guderian/Emp in the first place has been that they have tended to agree with me which makes me think we have a similar town perspective on events.

I have wanted to lynch one of Rob / Zdenek / Ellibereth all today, and have been trying to decide which one is best.
I started the day more suspicious of Rob but after Zden's ATROCIOUS case against me and Rob's good defense, I have moved to Zdenek.

[LlamaGod]

I need to think more about Ross because he clearly said something that wasn't true (I'd been thinking mistake, but maybe he and Jerbs were both scum? need to read more) and "gosh, I really really think Jerbs was town" sounds totally ingenuine.

Just ISOed Rob. His posting sounds good/has a town feel, but who he is suspicious of at different times seems to make more sense if he's scum and he was not pro Jerbslynch even near the end, suggesting Tasky and Pappums as alternatives despite not showing a whole lot of interest in either of them previously. This conveniently agreed with who Jerbs was suspicious of and Pappums was the player I had most recently expressed willingness to lynch other than Jerbs/Agar, so he seemed like a good candidate for a new counterwagon.

I'll also requote this:

damn I hate when there is any sort of weather condition because my DSL takes a crap, not going to be able to do the readthrough that I wanted on my phone but I am going back to my earlier vote

That last post by Jerbs has me scratching my head

FOS: Jerbs

Vote Agar

Then there's this from Jerbs.

Rosswilliamcasestuff

Vote: RossWilliam

@VV

Why would RossWilliam being scum make Tasky town? They just got into a little argument. That has no influence on whether or not they are scum or town

@Rob

Where are you? It's clear you're posting elsewhere. Lurking is bad for town, and a common way for scum to hide

FOS: Rob

So we have what could be bidirectional FOS:scumbuddy, vote somebody else. Also Jerbs was pushing hard enough on Ross to make me think the two weren't scumbuddies, but that's hard to be sure on.

At this point I think Rob is not unlikely to be scum, particularly since both of those FOSes seem to be of the "you just did something scummy, I'm not going to vote you yet but step up your game!" variety. Robscum would also explain the baltarkill pretty well; Baltar was clearly suspicious of Rob after Rob said Baltar would look suspicious regardless of how the lynch went down.

Uh, this
"Just ISOed Rob. His posting sounds good/has a town feel, . . ."
Is a LAUGHABLY OBSCENE MISREPRESENTATION because in the rest of that post I make a case against Rob.
THE NEXT WORD AFTER THAT QUOTED BIT IS "BUT"

It's not a misrepresentation and the fact that the word but is irrelevant. I contend that you are changing your reads to match Empking's, but that you are not so stupid as to so severely alter your read on someone from scum to town in a single post.

BS!
You accuse me of finding Rob town on grounds of that post, quoting that line for "proof."
THE ENTIRE REST OF THAT POST IS A CASE AGAINST ROB, AND IT CONCLUDES WITH ME SAYING I FOUND IT REASONABLY LIKELY ROB WAS SCUM. EVEN THE REST OF THAT SENTENCE SAYS I FIND ROBS ACTIONS MORE CONSISTENT WITH SCUM THAN WITH TOWN. So how is "but" irrelevant???

You are trying to argue that at the time of this post I thought Rob was town and that I changed my mind after EmpKing posted, which is utterly false. And how would that be scummy anyway? Listening to other players' (especially townreads) ideas and taking them into consideration is part of playing well.

Preview edit: Looks like Pappums got there first. But I'll post this anyway since it makes things clear.

[LlamaGod]

Where does "already knows Rob's alignment" come from??
I'd like to point out that beyond the absurdity of saying my case-against-Rob-post is "preparing to argue Rob is town" based on the less important half of a single line, and the absurdity of accusing me of being a "read-copying-scum," (I've never heard of such a thing, unless you mean sheeping which I clearly have not been doing) Empking's post where he changes his mind on Rob to finding him scummy comes a couple minutes after my case on Rob.
My post where I vote Rob after rereading Tasky's post literally comes the minute after Empking decides to flip his townread on Rob to a scumread. I was clearly writing it before Empking posted. Empking then votes Rob 10 minutes after I do. So the idea that I'm copying him actually factually makes no sense.
We do, however, have similar reads, which is part of the reason I think he's town.

Time to collect the case against Zdenek together.

[LlamaGod]

Hehehe, Zden is so obvscum at this point that I'm starting to think he's trying to intentionally get lynched in such a way as to make a buddy look town (Pappums?).

Primary reasons Zdenek is scum:
Fails to mention Jerbs in his "I just got here this is what I think" post when Jerbs was a primary lynch candidate.
He also votes Agar with reasoning that he states in the same post is null at a time when the lynch was Agar or Jerbs. Actually that post is terrible and I'm going to destroy it in detail next.
All he says during the Jerbs wagon->lynch is essentially that "if the scum made the daykill then Jerbs is probably town."
Now today he's tunneling me with an egregiously weak case.

Dizzle wasn't exactly a beacon of towniness; he lurked and wagoned RW to L-2 early.
Dizzle's play was defensive and not scumhunty.

Jerbs voted Dizzle with a request to please post more, then asked for a replacement for Dizzle.
The Jerbs end of this interaction felt like how he would treat a scumbuddy to me.

[LlamaGod]

Bolded me (except the vote agar at the end, that's his).

I'll start off by commenting on the new Ross wagon as LlamaGod asked. I agree that it is unlikely that someone would lie about seeing another person online, so I am going to say that either he made a mistake or is telling the truth. I think neither of these options tells us anything about his alignment. While it's true that scum would like to hide behind "but we caught him lying, so we had to vote him," townies could also use this reason to vote someone while scum just sit by and watch. Anyway, I'm going with null on the incident in general.

Okay, so you think RW is null after that incident and that voting him is a null tell

If there is anything else anyone wouldd like me to comment on, please ask.

Here are some people who caught my eye.

Agar: puts Mute at L-2 for quoting an IC, and in this post there is a bit of spaghetti flinging (accusing Mute of pseudo IC'ing and a scumbag freaking out, I think that since Mute is fairly new, his "mute is over reacting because he is aware of the sincerity of the pressure on him" argument is unreasonable). There's some protown fluff. He says that there is a "major inconsistency" in the RossWilliam's, I saw dizzle online argument, but never says what that inconsistency is. I think this is him using an incredibly exaggerated argument to cast doubt on Ross's argument.

"OH WAIT I NEED TO VOTE AGAR SO JERBS DOESN'T GET LYNCHED SO I'M GOING TO USE SOMETHING I JUST SAID WAS NULL TO JUSTIFY A VOTE!"

Ellibereth: I don't like the no vote at the start of the game. I see it as avoiding conflict. He presents a false dilemma and points it out. He also posts a lot of fluff.

I think Mute's been pretty scummy because of the no lynch vote at the start of the game, unvoting under pressure, pro-town banter, the L-1 vote. I also don't like the mutual unvote between Rob and Mute.

pappums rat: I don't like how he got on to the Mute wagon at the start of the game. I can't see how he couldn't have considered getting on the wagon, so the way he chose not to and then changed his mind at the request of Tasky feels unnatural. I don't like the unvote of Mute when rain enters the game.

RobCapone: He's been guilty of "showing up when his name is called," he's made some pro-town banter. However, his attacks on Agar and Ellibereth show active scum hunting.

RossWilliam: Fluff posting at the start of the game and what felt like playing dumb. I think the fact that he unvoted Dizzle makes his attack on Dizzle seem insincere.

You just said you thought this incident was null...

At the moment, I don't think Ellibereth, Pappums Rat or Rob is scummy enough to be lynched, but I wouldn't object to lynching mute. I'd be surprised if there wasn't one scum in RossWilliams and Agar, and I think Agar is scummier.

"I want to lynch RW tomorrow after Agar flips town today!"

Vote Agar

[LlamaGod]

Bolded me again.

Where does "already knows Rob's alignment" come from??

It's in contrast to you saying that I am arguing that you thought Rob was town.

I still don't understand.

and the absurdity of accusing me of being a "read-copying-scum," (I've never heard of such a thing, unless you mean sheeping which I clearly have not been doing)

Here is an example:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14673
nopointactingup is scum, who I don't think I would say is sheeping, but who makes sure that he is in pretty close agreement with Simenon, a TP, for the entire game.

My post where I vote Rob after rereading Tasky's post literally comes the minute after Empking decides to flip his townread on Rob to a scumread.

This is not a contradiction to my argument. You could have easily had the response prepared in advance (and been grateful to be able to use it quickly), considering that it was in agreement with your earlier reads.

HAHAHA! I actually laughed out loud at this. You are now accusing me of being scum preparing differing statements in advance so that I can agree with a particular townie as necessary. WHAT POSSIBLE PURPOSE WOULD THIS SERVE???

Fails to mention Jerbs in his "I just got here this is what I think" post when Jerbs was a primary lynch candidate.

At the time I entered the game, Jerbs had three votes on him, and was hardly a primary lynch candidate. He was only a primary lynch candidate after Agar was killed. Moreover there wasn't much to comment on.

Three was the second most. Agar only had one vote at the time of your post, so Jerbs was most certainly a primary lynch candidate with a growing wagon. I had also just called for a Pappums/Agar/Jerbs lynch and requested comments on the 3. Jerbs had also made some pretty scumjuicy posts and several players had made cases on him.

All he says during the Jerbs wagon->lynch is essentially that "if the scum made the daykill then Jerbs is probably town."

I was asking VP about his reasoning about the Agar kill, which I found completely bizarre, and that statement is taken out of context. Note I never suggested that scum made the day-kill.

You did not suggest scum made the daykill, but you did essentially make the statement "If you think scum made the daykill then you should think Jerbs is town." You did not give your own opinion on whether Jerbs was scum or on his claim other than to say you found him unremarkable

.

As far as the discussion about my first post is concerned. I said that I am going with null on the incident

in general

, meaning that independent of the details, I don't think such and incident says anything about the player's alignments; however, I think some of the particular details are important though. I was concerned about Ross because of his lack of interaction with Agar, who was pushing for his lynch.

Oh really? Then why didn't you mention this "lack of interaction" then? Saying players of either alignment could be voting Ross and that Ross may or may not have been sincere isn't useful if you're going to go into specifics later.

I am concerned about RW. He seems to have conveniently disappeared. Has he played any other games where a townie got lynched for lurking?

I just looked at my list of reads and Empkings and they actually aren't all that similar in the first place.

[LlamaGod]

By the way Zdenek is at

L-2

, apparently.

[LlamaGod]

Gah, I dislike RW replacing out, maybe he really is scum and I had him read wrong.
Actually, I don't want Zdenek hammering himself to stop the possible dayvig, so I'll

Unvote

I still expect a claim from him though and am only not voting him to eliminate that possibility.

[LlamaGod]

Hmm, rereading Guderian gave me less of a secure townread on him.
Oh well, I still find Zdenek easily scummiest.
May as well claim now, especially since we want the day moving a bit faster than normal so we have time to think after a possible vigshot.
It's not as if the replacee has his vote on Zdenek and may move it off when he replaced.

[LlamaGod]

Huh, didn't realize how soon deadline is. Zdenek really needs to claim (he's essentially at L-1 with my vote off merely to prevent selfhammer) so we can vig him if we have vigshots and make a reasonable lynch today.

[LlamaGod]

It's not a matter of depending on a vig, it's a matter of giving ourselves an opportunity to make full use of one if they have more shots. Regardless of vig availability, Zdenek should claim. I guess I'll let him self-hammer if he's scum to avoid the vig; certainty is nice hehe.

VOTE: ZDENEK L - 1

[LlamaGod]

A claimless hammer...
Oh well I guess we just wait and see if Zdenek is scum.

[LlamaGod]

AWESOMESAUCE!
Hahaha Zdenek should've self-hammered when I gave him the chance.
I'll try to read a bunch more stuff today; 4 days isn't much time to figure things out and get a lynch done.
GreyIce's attack on Pappums looks like a really well done attempt to stonewall the Zdenek lynch, but I do need to read more. To be honest he went a long way to persuading me. Yay vig for not being persuaded! I guess a serial killer who daykills is vaguely possible but that would be pretty nonnormal.

Let's win this today!

[LlamaGod]

By the way Pappums had occurred to me as a possible doublebusser before, and that vote analysis looks pretty good, so he's definitely getting further scrutiny. So maybe (@GreyIce) we were both right.

[LlamaGod]

If Ross did lie it was clearly supposed to be a mega distancing move since the player he was accusing there did turn out to be scum.

[LlamaGod]

Also Agar did research on how the hiding last login stuff worked and proved Ross couldn't have seen Dizzle online? I suppose I can go and try to duplicate it and see if Agar made a mistake, but my read so far was that RW was town who made an error.

[LlamaGod]

The issue is that Dizzle had a blank last logged in date, which Agar pointed out means he has always had his account set to hidden, so Ross could not have seen him online.

[LlamaGod]

Huh, Agar said he did a similar test, but if this is true then the world is less confusing.

[LlamaGod]

(I see there's no date now, so unhide away)

[LlamaGod]

I'm leaning toward Pappums or Ellibereth as the remaining scum. Still much reading to do though.

[LlamaGod]

Okay, now I see a date, so if you rehide and the date goes away then I'll be convinced RW was telling the truth there. I don't think we were given information about whether the scum has a dayQT, but that would seem to give the scum enough power to justify a town dayvig instead of a nightvig. Mini normals are only allowed one explicitly non normal role/mechanic, which the dayvig counts as. Does a dayQT count as nonnormal as well? If it does we can rule that out.

Case on Elli is that he mentioned thinking Jerbs town and Agar scum, which puts him somewhat into the counterwagon-on-agar category. Also his attitude toward Dizzle seemed a bit funny to me and he has wanted to lynch Ross instead of Jerbs or Zdenek. D1 he instructed Jerbs to vote Dizzle and later told Jerbs to claim.

[LlamaGod]

Gah, that was inevitable.
Reposted here for ISO purposes:

Okay, I'm not sure what happened with Agar's Hydra examination then.
In that case I'd say RW/GreyIce is very likely town; the attempt to stonewall the Zdenek lynch looks bad but can be attributed to recent arrival and Pappums possibly being scum anyway.

That leaves the following:
Townreads-
Me, LL, Tasky, Empking, Rain, GreyIce, Rob.
So I guess part of the case on Elli is simply process of elimination.
Elli and Pappums are the only players left after that.
Pappums was part of both wagons against scum, but looks like he could have been bussing.

[LlamaGod]

Yeah, Elliberethscum makes the most sense to me after reading him, Jerbs, and Zdenek in ISO. It really could be Pappums though. I wish I had more time to think about it. I will try to conference with my other head tonight (RL tonight) and try to be sure who I want to lynch by tomorrow so there's still time to move if we are voting the mason or something.
VOTE: Ellibereth

[LlamaGod]

A thing to note is that Ellibereth said "voting for llamasucks" which could have been advice that voting me would get Zdenek nowhere.

[LlamaGod]

Zde eventually changed his vote due to obvious lack of general interest in lynching me.

Sadnesss overwhelmingggggg....I was hoping you guys would have strung up little Dizzle and I wouldn't have to read the walls until night now aeruerghah.
Thus I will further delay until Zdenek makes him further obvscum. GO ZDE GO!

...

UNVOTE: Dizzle

I made up my mind. I don't want to see Dizzle lynched without a defense. There is too big of a chance of the lurking being a townie fluke.

When I first read this, I thought it was scummy. Now that I read it again, I have no idea. >.<

HEY ME TOO. Except that I still kinda think it's scummy, but I'm going all confirmation bias on Dizzlescum for a little bit more.
I actually have to look at Jerbs again. Something's been ringing town in me. May just have been his avatar...
and Agar, but without the town part.

AND YOU

at this point i guess i will

unvote

to give rain a chance to get into the game, since he or she cant answer for mute's actions.

This all he says about the Agar/Jerbs situation while it's picking up steam.
"Agar, but without the town part" seems to approve an Agar lynch. May not be enough though.
Tasky at least was pretty pro Jerbs lynch and Jerbs and Zdenek both seemed to want to off him at some point.
Pappums could very easily be scum, it's true.

[LlamaGod]

Huh, weird. My townread on VV was because I had ruled out everyone else as the mason...
* goes back to figure out why *
Ah, I thought Rat saying he might "accept a compromise lynch on Jerbs OR Agar" made them not masons together, but if there's no counterclaim he's obviously clear.
Now I need to reread VV.

[LlamaGod]

Along the way I reread Rob and he made sense, so he stays on my townlist.
Pappums did you and Agar have daytalk?
That would make mafiadaytalk more likely and we'd need to look into Dizzlecoaching.

Actually, I'm starting to feel pretty confident VV/LL is the third scum. Both Jerbs and Zdenek mentioned him only minimally (what benefit is there talking about a scumbuddy who already has the town's trust), and since showing up all LL has done is push a Tasky lynch over a Zdenek lynch. He asked "who's scum," received the response "Zdenek" and rather than looking closely at Zdenek tried to deflect attention onto Tasky. I think today the scum would be feeling like they couldn't afford another death, so such a defense seems fairly likely. VV's ISO has a few bad posts too. Getting to them next.

Unvote; VOTE LOCKE LAMORA

[LlamaGod]

Wall of text ahoy!

WeirdWeirdWeirdWeird. I was thinking Dizzle changed his setting in response to RW's post but Rob points out Dizzle's status is hidden half an hour after RW says he caught Dizzle Lurking. Can anybody explain to me a situation where this makes sense??? I hope those players show up postgame to explain what happened there.

I still feel pretty good about this LL lynch though. Both VV and his replacement were not for a Zdeneklynch and took measures to avoid it D2. The one thing that makes me worry about a VV/LL lynch is the Dizzle almost-vote yesterday. But it never became an actual vote, and may have been a matter of a late bus similar to the hammer on Jerbs.

Looks like this game exploded since I last posted. It looks like we now have 3 wagons going on.

I still like the RossWilliam wagon. I gave reasons for this before and they still apply. Unfortunately, that wagon seems to have mostly died out.

I'm not really a fan of the Mute wagon here. I've been getting the feeling that his suspicions are genuine, even if it's just a gut feeling. I also find it interesting that the Mute wagon built up quickly twice. It kind of looks like a default wagon that people are jumping to when they have nowhere better to go and that bothers me a bit. If Mute is actually town, it wouldn't surprise me if at least 2 scum are voting him.

This wagon was composed of Agar, Me, RW, Rob, and Pappums. Saying "I think there's two scum in here" about what's probably a scum-free wagon seems like a very convenient move for scum.

Since it seems like the RossWilliam wagon isn't going anywhere right now, I'm willing to

unvote, vote: RobCapone

. The fact that he chose to ignore this game even though he posts so frequently is a bit suspicious (though largely alleviated by his explanation) and his post #108 looks kind of bad. I would definitely prefer a RossWilliam lynch though and if other people are willing to switch back to RossWilliam, I will certainly be among those switching .

This is very meh reasoning. The last time I saw "I will vote X but prefer Y" it was from Jerbs. Seems to distance him from a potential roblynch.

@VV

Why would RossWilliam being scum make Tasky town? They just got into a little argument. That has no influence on whether or not they are scum or town

It's mostly because of his post #52. He felt the need to defend Tasky as part of his reason for voting me despite claiming only a weak read. This leads me to believe that RossWilliam is scum using the fact that I voted someone he knows is town as justification for voting me. It would be odd for him to include that as part of his reasoning for his vote if they were both scum.

I'm not sure how I feel about the L-2 and L-1 votes from Dizzle and Mute. I'm not sure Dizzle actually knew he was putting RossWilliam at L-2 (I didn't realize until someone pointed it out) and, to be fair, Mute seemed to crosspost with Guderian pointing this out. Not sure what to make of Dizzle's unvote in post #102 though.

Way to fencesit on Dizzlescum and make excuses for him.

I might need to reread RossWilliam to take a closer look. Things are starting to not add up so well and it might be time for me to reevaluate some of my stances so they do. I also want to take a closer look at pappums rat and Jerbs. Something about them is bothering me right now and I'm not sure what.

VV never says anything about what Jerbs did to bother him. He ends up following up on Pappums later though. He does eventually hammer Jerbs though.

VV, please vote.

I didn't want to detract from pressure on Dizzle before he showed up, but it looks like he's being replaced anyway.

Worried about people seeing a connection between himself and Dizzle

Vote: pappums rat

for reasons mentioned earlier

It's looking at this point that Dizzle's going to be replaced. I'm excited to hear from the replacement because more and more the bandwagon on Dizzle is making me nervous...I don't have a good argument other than gut but I'm just getting a bad feeling about the lynch, because the only reason my vote is on him is because of the lurking, but plenty of town have lurked before. From a selfish point of view, if he flips town for some fluke I'm going to get a LOT of flak at the start of the next day, and I don't want that. I'm not going to unvote yet but if it get's to L-1 and we still haven't heard from Dizzle or the replacement I think I'm going to unvote.

I'm liking Tasky more as scum because he's got himself set up with this reputation like he's not going to contribute and thats totally okay. Now he can glide under the radar just making his comments here and there. We'll see.

I don't remember why I unvoted you, but it had better have been for a good reason.

That reason: His bandwagon wasn't big enough...

VV, what are you thoughts of the four people with mini-actual bandwagons on them? Who of them would you like to see lynched most?

Dizzle: I'm starting to think I was a bit too lazy in allowing myself to suspect Dizzle. His post about Mute was certainly awkward, but his lack of posting (especially if he's now disappeared from the site) really doesn't mean much. I wouldn't be particularly enthusiastic about a Dizzle lynch.

Doesn't want to lynch dizzle

Jerbs: My first thought is that I wouldn't be against this lynch, but I also never looked back to figure out what I didn't like about him. I meant to, but other people looked back first. I would probably be willing to vote him just based on what I've seen though.

Would vote Jerbs sort of.

Rain: Rain is possibly my biggest wild card right now. It felt like a lot of Mute's earlier posting was genuine, but his later posting gave me some reservations. I don't see much of a problem with what Rain's done so far. Not willing to vote him right now. I would probably only vote him as a deadline lynch and largely because his flip would give us a lot to work with.
RossWilliam: I didn't like him early on, then switched votes and wasn't sure. I'm starting to see him as scum again. It's not unlikely for my vote to find its way back to him in the near future.

Much happier one of these two nonscums

UNVOTE: Dizzle

I made up my mind. I don't want to see Dizzle lynched without a defense. There is too big of a chance of the lurking being a townie fluke.

When I first read this, I thought it was scummy. Now that I read it again, I have no idea. >.<

I think I lost my grasp of this game a bit when I went V/LA. If I'm not busy today, I'll try to reread this game, but I won't guarantee it, seeing as I've been a bit lazy with reading this game in general up to this point.

Okay, posting time.

The night kill is mildly interesting in that VP had a bit of suspicion on him. It's less interesting when you consider that VP is a good player and a small amount of suspicion on him would likely not be enough to keep a scum team from wanting to kill him and especially if he was doing something right. His suspicions might be worth looking at, but I'm not sure it's worth it to use them for any more than padding suspicions. This being said, I don't actually remember who he suspected.

Hmm, maybe he was killed partially in hopes townies would look up who his suspicions were on and go after Rob?

I'm really not seeing Zdenek's case on Llama in post #345. I like Rob's case (or PBPA, I guess) on pappums in the next post though.

You like your top scumread's case?? And you don't like Zdenek's case but have no comment on Zdenek's alignment?

Interestingly enough though, I really don't like what I see from Rob in iso towards the end of yesterday. Between his post #321 and post #322, it really looks like he doesn't want the Jerbs wagon to find its way to completion. I also don't like the potential pushing of a day 2 mislynch on VP in post #336, followed by the very nonchalant "oh well, so much for that!" post #334 just 35 minutes into the day. Strikes me a bit as him not being surprised enough, if that makes sense. For the moment, that's actually enough to put him ahead of pappums on my want-to-lynch list.

So basically VV wanted to lynch Rob or Pappums instead of Zdenek. This looks like counterwagonning.

Post #349 actually made me laugh out loud just now. Really nice catch by Tasky.

Vote: RobCapone

Rain's post #358 looks like a jump onto a counter-wagon to try to take attention off of Rob, especially since he seems more concerned with using buzzwords and making his post loud than he does about explaining his vote. I was about to say Rob's immediate switch to Zdenek afterwards made this less likely, but Rain's subsequent switch to Elli just 5 votes later could very well be his way of trying to distance himself from Rob.

FoS Rain

Whee another alternative to Zdenek. Anyone but him pleaseplease!

Town

1.Robcapone

9. Rosswilliam

Please ask me any question you have. Reading now.

I have one....actually, on further reading, I have two more:
1. Why the vote on pappums?
2. What changed that made you vote Rob?

These look like he is trying to galvanize a townie into helping him push a counterwagon? Maybe VVscum wanted to lynch either Rob or Pappums and was keeping his options open.

---

Since it's apparently now the cool thing to do (and as an excuse to give reads on a couple of controversial players), here are my current reads (players within a group are in no particular order (even though I created enough orderings to give a pretty good idea of where people are relative to each other anyway)):

Town

LlamaGod
Tasky
Vigilante Ventriloquist

Leaning Town

Ellibereth
RossWilliam

Very Slighly Town

Empking

Neutral

Zdenek

Continued Dizzle Fencesitting pattern

Very Slightly Scum

pappums rat (eh, Rob's suspicions of him probably bump him to the town side if Rob is scum, but I'd rather leave him on this side of the scale until Rob actually flips)

Lining up lynches much?

Leaning Scum

Rain

Scum

RobCapone

[LlamaGod]

I have reasons to believe VV/LL is probably not scum.

Sorry if that was a breadcrumb, but I don't see why you would think this. Also both scums we've lynched thus far were goons so unless two scum remain the last scum probably has power.

[LlamaGod]

Darn it wrong account again.

Well, could be a daykillSK and a 3rd mafia, or town dayvig, more town power and 4 scum.
Elli, what do you think of LL/VV?

I'll have more time tonight.

[LlamaGod]

@Rain: Interesting. Do you think your logic makes LL a bad lynch today? I'd like to get a claim from him tomorrow so we can think about it a bit before lynching.

I do think Tasky is town though. He was early on the Jerbswagon and was voting Zdenek until Ice's (I thought pretty good) case on Pappums. His gamebreaky stuff seems fairly unlikely from scum (both the early bit and the fake hammer). He hasn't been super protown in style, but he has at least been on the right wagons. I feel like there was a high incentive for Zdenek's remaining buddy to try and keep him from getting lynched today, which makes Rob more townlike and LL/VV scummier.

[LlamaGod]

I think that was

L-1

(Me, Ice, Rob, Rain) So I'm ready to hear a Locke claim.

[LlamaGod]

I agree with LL discussing role specifics first but I do want the partner identified and the gist of the discussion revealed. (Presumably neighbors exert some influence on each other and I'd like to know what that influence was.)

[LlamaGod]

Rob could totally be scum doing a good job at townstyle posting.
He FOSed Dizzle & Jerbs d1 while voting everyone else.
D2 he kept his vote on Zdenek, but it was pretty inevitable one would get lynched/vigged.
Also spent lots of time attacking Pappums & Tasky & Agar.
As I said yesterday, his words were townie enough not to lynch him, but his actions were pretty sketchy.

I am confused by three things:
The NK (guess they were docscared or something, but Tasky was a potential mislynch).
Rob pointing out that Dizzle's status is hidden half an hour after RW mentions seeing Dizzle online.
(ScumdayQT is possible but Dizzle happening to be online then would be weird)
What I was fairly certain was a D1 pre-shot vigbreadcrumb from a player other than Emp.

[LlamaGod]

argh I should mention who the breadcrumb was from in case they're a daySK...

[LlamaGod]

Meh 3 scum and a daySK are not balanced by a couple of neighbors and masons so I'mma assume the vig is town and not worry about it for now. Also now would indeed be the time for Empking to retract if he gambited. Gambits are confusion we don't need when we're this (presumably) far ahead.

Maybe Rob was fairly sure the dayvig was tasky?? I think he or Ellibereth is scum but we've got plenty of thinking time.

[LlamaGod]

Wait what? I basically drove his lynch.

[LlamaGod]

sweet jesus I go shovel snow and I come back to this lol

I'm glad somebody else besides me finds pappums scummy.

Is Rob's post between Grey's arrival and Pappumattack and the Zdenekvigshot.
I can't remember why I thought Rob was town yesterday...

VOTE: Robcapone

[LlamaGod]

I suppose I'll collect the Rob case together so it's all clear and nice for everyone.
I'm getting that good feeling of confidence I've found scum again.

[LlamaGod]

Specifics of Bomb claim please.

[LlamaGod]

Town having a bomb and a dayvig is a Ridiculous amount of Power, especially since the dayvig usually gets a claim before they shoot.
So there pretty much are 4 scums or Rob is scum but not both.

Biderectional FOS with Jerbs with no votes of each other.
Wanted Agar, Tasky, Pappums lynches D1 just like Jerbs.
Was on counterwagon against Agar in the JerbsvsAgar wagons situation.
Asked for more elaboration from Jerbs on the copclaim; I can definitely see mafia hoping a copclaim will buy an extra day.
FOSes VPBaltar for after a Jerbs scumflip (or a Jerbs townflip)
Balt calls him out for this and promptly dies.

[LlamaGod]

7 left, so 3 deaths today could actually make us lose if 2 mafia remain, which they probably do (or we have daySK & 1scum left) if Rob isn't lying. So I want to be at least vaguely careful here. But I am pretty convinced Rob is the last scum which helps.
Also a mafia bomb vs town neighbors, masons and dayvig seems reasonable actually.
It's one of few roles powerful enough to make up for the townpower on a 3man scumteam with 2 goons.

[LlamaGod]

Let's have Ellibereth claim and then shoot him since Ellibereth didn't help either scumlynch and doesn't have the RWsawdizzle towncred.

Continuing with Robcase:
Dizzle never mentions Rob.
Zdenek says Rob "shows active scumhunting" and then never talks about him (except to mention he thinks I know Rob's alignment) while tunneling me despite Rob getting to L-2.
Seems like Zdenekscum should be HAPPY to support that wagon which had pretty good logic going for it if it was on town.

Rob actions D2:
Vote Pappums
Move vote to Zdenek (I guess this and general reasonableness were the reasons I was thinking he was town yesterday)
His vote is on Zde for tunneling me with a weak case. He doesn't really talk about it much though.
Goes back to Pappums after Zdenek.

OK D2 wasn't as bad as D1.
He votes Zdenek all the way till Zdenek dies. I guess they could've decided to do that in their dayQT but it doesn't look bad.

What do people think of Rob's vote for Zdenek and stance on him through day 2?
Eh there's plenty for me to be happy with plan shoot Eli -> somebody hammers Rob.

We're endgaming enough at this point that we should probably just massclaim, actually.

[LlamaGod]

I agree giving up is never the right move, but I also agree Rob's chances of winning were pretty minute even before the bomb claim.

Oh and this

I lied. I would now support an AGar lynch, but would still rather see Jerbs dead by tonight.

Not only do AGar's arguments against RossW seem unconvincing, it feels as if he's taking something minor to exaggerate it beyond reason.

Had me completely convinced Rain was the dayvig. "Rather see Jerbs dead by tonight" sounded like he had another way to make a player not get to tonight.

I was happy with my play this game except for the LL lynch. I've never called out a whole scumteam D1 like that before.
I guess Rob bussing Zdenek was what convinced me he wasn't the best lynch D2.
And I guess Dizzle did what Ellibereth described? (saw name at bottom, went UHOH, and changed it?)