Blackest Night Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Vi]

I'm quite sure SensFan wears his heart on his sleeve.

Vote: SensFan

(L-11)

I'll pass on PikachuGM's questions.
In a game with crossfire, I in particular have every reason to want to be Town (plus I prefer being Town in the first place).

[Vi]

Vi:
For the most part, I'm a logical and rational person. At the time I posted that, I was pissed.

I'm not doubting that. But you even said some of your cause for concern was from circumstances in this game.

[Vi]

If Fate is attempting to imitate razorback I am amused.
Other than that I'm quickly getting the impression that the ninja noncapslock alliance is going to make this game really annoying.

Even if you don't like the first one, why not answer the others?

When I said I don't like your questions, I pretty clearly meant I didn't like ANY of your questions. The only one that WOULD be alignment-relevant is the first one. Please prove me wrong. (That, and I didn't feel like thinking about them at ten at night.)
Rather than participate, I simply cut through the grass and gave you alignment-relevant information. You're welcome.

If SensFan hadn't said anything and PikachuGM hadn't asked irrelevant questions I would have voted nopointinetc. for claiming anti-Town colors in signups. (44)

Re: tanstalas and setup meta - A few things about that.
*I don't see anything about later joins being less likely to get what they want.
Besides, the mod team had like two weeks to put this setup together AFTER it filled.
*I co-modded Pledge of Allegiance, another game where people could choose their alignment.
Giving everyone the alignment they wanted, it came down to
**5 Mafia
**8 Neutral
**11 Town
so even after accounting for differences in the player list, the idea that EVERYONE would choose Town is probably not true at all.
*People picking a "challenging" alignment works mostly if they like being either alignment.

[Vi]

I'll pass on PikachuGM's questions.
In a game with crossfire, I in particular have every reason to want to be Town (plus I prefer being Town in the first place).

Why are you passing on the questions? Wait, check that, why did you answer the first question and ignore the rest?
What do you meanby crossfire?

If I answered one of AGM's questions, it was by accident.

Crossfire means scum shooting scum shooting scum. Given how likely I am to die overNight, I would be a liability to whichever scum faction I'm on.

Also, I refuse to sheep Fate until I can understand what he's saying. And is the mason claim legitimate or are you guys just fucking around?

It's not legitimate.

[Vi]

*I co-modded Pledge of Allegiance, another game where people could choose their alignment.
Giving everyone the alignment they wanted, it came down to
**5 Mafia
**8 Neutral
**11 Town
so even after accounting for differences in the player list, the idea that EVERYONE would choose Town is probably not true at all.
*People picking a "challenging" alignment works mostly if they like being either alignment.

Going along these lines it should also be noted that DGB played the "everyone knows I picked town" card early in the game and she flipped scum, so Fate's (or anyones) post in the signup thread will not dissuade me from thinking he is scum if he behaves like scum.

Also, Vi - along these lines, what do you think of SpyreX's post here:

my second pick was orange and i didn't get it

You both were co-mods in Pledge of Allegiance so I think SpyreX would know that a decent number of people would probably pick Orange as their first pick so why would he pick a singular faction that would go to someone's number one? It seems like a throw away color choice.

You didn't know Goofy was much much better as scum than Town? She was the one driving the scum team!

I don't know what to make of SpyreX's post. I don't know anything about his dis/like for being third party/SK, but more importantly I don't know why he would say he didn't draw orange in the first place. The logic behind picking orange as second can be explained by any number of things considering he didn't have an alignment at the time. His post is certainly no Town-tell, at any rate.

What do you think of AlmasterGM?

[Vi]

The nocaps alliance is maintaining that fine line between making me not take this game seriously and not being funny.
I am not entertained except by how Fate is pulling off the best satire of himself I think I'm ever going to see.

I don't get the Toogeloo hate. If he's scum, I don't think it would be for the reasons brought up so far.

xRx saying he can never read me is humorous.

SensFan wants to get taken out of this game, saying RC screwed him over. I propose we help him out

[Vi]

Toogs - What was the point of 105?

[Vi]

Anyway, there is a game-relevant POINT to all of the questions ... which is why I am annoyed that Vi will not answer them.

Why don't you like the questions? I'd be happy to explain the usefullness of each one ... after you answer them. And yes, they all have a function.

Hint: "They're pointless" isn't a valid answer. Even if you think they are stupid, it takes about 90 seconds to answer them ... time you clearly had because you managed to analyze my questions and offer an answer to what you "thought" I was trying to get out of them. Or, if you actually are so incredibly busy that you can't spend 90 seconds answering a few questions, then you shouldn't be playing forum mafia.

Oh, so we're lying about the friendly questions now? Your whole "I have a motive to be town" answer is a pretty clear response to the first question.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion about the use of your questions, but.
1) If you are so incredibly up in arms about one person abstaining from your questioning, then you are
*intentionally trying to draw a scene,
*so heavily reliant on this questionnaire for reads that I question your scumhunting efforts, and/or
*acting like Adel
none of which are good things.
I'll abstain, you can explain, and I'll decide whether my opinion of the survey changes afterward.

2) A "pretty clear response"?

1) Did you get the color you asked for?

In a game with crossfire, I in particular have every reason to want to be Town (plus I prefer being Town in the first place).

I certainly said I picked Town, but I said nothing about colors.

3) Moreover, my acknowledgment that I may have unintentionally answered one of your questions evidently means that when I said I would pass on explicitly answering them I was "lying". You are either incredibly dense or your argument can't come in good faith, and I know you're not dense.

4) If I think your questions don't lead anywhere, I'm under no obligation to distract the game with them - especially when we had perfectly good vote material in the post directly above yours.

As for why I believe the questions are irrelevant.
Re: Getting the colors you wanted - For one, the mod team said they wanted to satisfy as many people as they could, so the answer would mostly be "yes". Even if not, I would presume most people would not be heartbroken if they didn't get their favorite shade of Town for whatever reason, so long as they got the alignment they wanted. And if they didn't get the alignment they wanted, they would probably be better off not saying so explicitly inthread.
Re: N0 Vigs - There are theoretical purposes for this but unless you plan on policy lynching D1 - and we can do better - it likely won't amount to anything.
Re: Cheating if you could - Theoretically you could get a psychological profile on people you don't know much about with this question; evidently you're looking for people who are boldfaced enough to pick scum and say they'd pick scum.
Re: Ultimatum - Never played it, never really cared much for economics, don't see the relevance of the question in a Mafia context.

----

Rereading a little, Kdub is probscum. Nothing to say outside colors and theory.
Vote stays on SensFan because, again, there's no reason to whine

this much

if you got the alignment you wanted but not the colors. Do I think he would complain this much as scum for being scum? I'm fairly sure there's precedent.

[Vi]

*intentionally trying to draw a scene,
*so heavily reliant on this questionnaire for reads that I question your scumhunting efforts, and/or
*acting like Adel
none of which are good things.

Are they scummy not-good-things or just not-good-things?

The former.

I submitted Red/Orange (so the mods knew I wanted to be Scum, even if my choices didn't count.) SSBF submitted Yellow/Orange. I was given a Town role.

That's actually interesting information if true. It likely means that

too many people

requested scum.

That's what I wanted to know.

Unvote: SensFan
Vote: Kdub

(L-12)

[Vi]

Welp, assuming sens is telling the truth I don't even have to ask my question because this game obviously doesn't follow the same methodology that others of this variant would. Considering I'm not the only one who has ran draft variants here and I'm prettyyyyy sure that none of them would give out things if they weren't picked (like SK for example ohhh shiii) well then the like I said albeit small help in knowing orange isn't there isn't there at all.

I think whoever it was that suggested that there were color quotae may have been on the mark, although 9 scum in a 24 player game sounds kind of crazy.

If its because I'm scum

just

dance.

SPYREX CONFIRMED FOR GAGA TIER

(as an aside Vi maybe someday I'll have to have you show me your mystic powers because the more I think about it the more I think I've never been an SK but sooo lazy).

I'm not sure what you're asking me to do here...

[Vi]

I'd say your calling yourself scummy, then. Sure, maybe my harping on the questions is silly, but you have caused just as large of a scene with your refusal to answer them as I have by asking that you do.

My reason for acting out actually

matters

. I've seen no indication how yours does, and you're in no hurry to give one.

Because Vi is making a point to explicitly refuse to answer them. Also, because I am getting more out of the conversation with Vi than simply "lol wai did u n0t answ3r ma queeesstions hurr."

nuh-uh......................... u think u can make me answer ur questions well guess wut... LOL!!!

THIS is the cause for the uproar?

No shit

there's a chance not everyone who requests scum is going to get scum. If 15 people asked for scum then some of them are going to be town. The end.

Funny, one of us with more experience with these games happens to find this to be new and interesting information, and certainly wouldn't prefer the conversation abruptly stop like that.

Also I like how Vi said question one was irrelevant, and then when SensFan answered it two posts below the answer suddenly became "interesting."

Oh, yes, he was absolutely answering your question right there. Your name's in the post and everything.

We're lynching Kdub Today, so

attn: appropriate killing elements - target AGM, please and thank you

----

I still don't understand what SpyreX wants but it's probably not important.

Cut: SpyreX is superTown. SpyreX is amazing. SpyreX promised to let me into the Hierarchy if I promised him absolute obedience. SpyreX... um... how long does this scripted response go?

[Vi]

My reason for acting out actually matters.

Minus the fact that you saved yourself a few minutes by not answering the questions, how does your "acting out" matter? What does it accomplish?

It gave me a chance to see that your exaggerated attacks were coming from a position that's incomprehensible if you're Town. (Thank you for your cooperation. :alex: )

Oh, yes, he was absolutely answering your question right there. Your name's in the post and everything.

It is irrelevant who he was talking to. What IS relevant is that you jumped from calling a subject area (whether people got their colors or not) "irrelevant" to "interesting" in a single post. Step back for a second and look at this. Am I actually wrong and misunderstanding what was said, or are you just disagreeing with everything I'm saying simply because it's coming from me?

Go ahead and reread exactly WHY I said it was irrelevant.

[Vi]

It gave me a chance to see that your exaggerated attacks were coming from a position that's incomprehensible if you're Town. (Thank you for your cooperation. :alex: )

There's a pretty clear double standard here. You making a scene = you're scumhunting, me making a scene = I'm scum. Especially given that the "exaggerated attacks" point is pretty untrue (minus the lying thing, which might have crossed the line a little bit. But not that much.).

Arguing against yourself looks terrible here.

I said I didn't want to answer your questions, and why in varying degrees of detail. But given that you still haven't bothered to explain yourself in spite of repeated attempts to get you to do so

and

should probably have figured out by now that I'm just not going to do it so you have nothing to lose in explaining yourself, I don't think this is about the questionnaire... which makes your side of the story baseless. You're welcome.

Go ahead and reread exactly WHY I said it was irrelevant.

Is this what you are talking about?

Re: Getting the colors you wanted - For one, the mod team said they wanted to satisfy as many people as they could, so the answer would mostly be "yes". Even if not, I would presume most people would not be heartbroken if they didn't get their favorite shade of Town for whatever reason, so long as they got the alignment they wanted. And if they didn't get the alignment they wanted, they would probably be better off not saying so explicitly inthread.

If so, in SensFan's case, he didn't get the colors he wanted, he didn't get the alignment he wanted, and he DID say so in thread. And you called it interesting. Not irrelevant.

Yes I did, because I was under the assumption that everyone would claim to have picked Town. I was mistaken.

----

MoI on setup meta - I wouldn't know. The only game I've played or modded with two four-person scumteams (and no SK) had 30 players.

SensFan is going to be pissed about something or other regardless. As for

testing

his veracity, that would require a flip. I don't think he's lying - especially about not getting the alignment he wanted, whatever that is - and think there are better scum candidates out there. If you get bored with him, come help me start a Kdub wagon.

[Vi]

I find that more than a little unfair, just for the record.

I'm calling it as I see it.

Plum vs. tanstalas 161 - I can go with this, at least after I see what Kdub has to say.

Plum and the Orange fallback choice - Actually, I'd wager more people wanted to be scum given SensFan.

I actually don't like the tone of Andrius' post 170. Soooo much of it is fluff.

AGM's excuse for not voting Kdub seems paltry.

---

What is your opinion so far of the following players: Katsuki, nopoint, Starbuck? No, this is not a random list.

Katsuki - No idea. Somehow not as annoying as ecksReck's whining, but only barely.
npiau - He's trolling the thread. I've seen him play as Town before and he did quite the opposite, but I don't know if what he's doing is alignment-relevant.
Starbuck - I played with her before. As a Neutral party she basically fluffposted the entire 100+page game, from what I recall. That she's doing it again here doesn't particularly surprise me. Someone who knows her meta better than I do can tell me if she does that as Town as well.

The rest of the post isn't interesting in any way.

tans 206 is made of WTH for how wrong it is.

tanstalas isn't a bad vote, but I'm sticking with Kdub. I'm certainly looking forward to where this list is going.

[Vi]

@Vi - You don't like Andrius' #170, but what do you feel about the rest of his posts, the ones mostly revolving around rings and colors, like, do you feel that is scum motivated?

Not really.

Signatures don't change per post, so all you're going to see is that The Stove is AGar and Papa Zito.
Their entrance to the game was basically terrible, particularly

It's a massive WIFOM trap that some people are falling into.

which sounds like they claim knowledge of which side of the WIFOM SensFan is coming from.
I doubt they have knowledge suggesting SensFan is more likely to be lying.

Again, anyone who has some form of Town meta on Starbuck and isn't xRx would be appreciated about now.

[Vi]

Katsuki - No idea. Somehow not as annoying as ecksReck's whining, but only barely.
npiau - He's trolling the thread. I've seen him play as Town before and he did quite the opposite, but I don't know if what he's doing is alignment-relevant.
Starbuck - I played with her before. As a Neutral party she basically fluffposted the entire 100+page game, from what I recall. That she's doing it again here doesn't particularly surprise me. Someone who knows her meta better than I do can tell me if she does that as Town as well.

You initially voted me for lack of content based on three posts that happened within the first 24 hours of the game. My first thought was, "whatever, it's early in the game and it's probably as much for Vi to go on as he could possibly have at this stage". But your continued pushing on my wagon after that, even though I wasn't around and didn't post for a little bit after my third post, had me wondering why you decided to single me out for that reason. I picked a group of players and asked your opinion of them because at the time, I feel like they had contributed about as much (or less) content as I had, yet you were completely silent on them. Your stated opinions of them seem fairly neutral/non-committal, which is in contrast to your opinion of me. Tell me how those players had contributed more content in your opinion, because your reads do not look consistent.

Let's talk about what KIND of content.

Post 0 is useless.
Post 1 votes SpyreX for terrible reasoning.
Post 2 is useless.

You're beneath the norma.

Posts 3 and 4 aren't particularly redeeming. SensFan didn't out his colors (so much as what they WEREN'T). SpyreX vote is still lame. Andrius-Town isn't particularly groundbreaking, and coaching him after saying this doesn't look great. IGMEOY on SensFan is a lot of words to essentially say nothing of import. tanstalas' vote on you is indeed very bad.

Also, what changed between this:
<stuff>
You added the qualifier "if true", but gave no reason why you thought it was true despite implying that Sens was scum in your previous post.

I expected ScumFan to be complaining about being scum. I got the opposite of what I expected. I'm p r e t t y sure I said this already.

----

Toogeloo - While there is an integrity issue here - sort of similar to how people don't like Plum and Pomegranate playing in the same games - proposing that people intentionally chose to team up before the game started pretty much undermines the integrity of the entire site, since we're playing on the honor system.

Although I'm sure some people would do it anyway. <_<

dramonic - More like I should have started being like Glork several months ago

[Vi]

Vi, you didn't address my concern. I know that you think my first three posts lacked content. I am asking why you singled me out over other players who you claim to have mostly neutral/no reads on who I think contributed less at that point. In particular, explain why those players posted more content, in your opinion.

You were actually TRYING to produce content, and failed.
That's scummier (read: that's something scum are more likely to do) than not producing any at all. Otherwise I would be pointlessly chastising the likes of Fate and xRx and whoever else is being lame and unhelpful for the sake of being lame and unhelpful.

I expected ScumFan to be complaining about being scum. I got the opposite of what I expected. I'm p r e t t y sure I said this already.

What? Regardless of his alignment, did you expect him to say that the mods gave him anything other than a town role?

Given that this is SensFan and he's upset with his role, I'm fairly positive there's precedent.

[Vi]

Given that this is SensFan and he's upset with his role, I'm fairly positive there's precedent.

I guess I don't know what precedent you are referring to. Has he ruined games in the past by claiming scum?

Not "ruined", but if he wants out, he gets out.

[Vi]

That's actually interesting information if true. It likely means that too many people requested scum.

Would you mind unpacking this sentence a little more, I'm curious to know where your line of thinking headed with this

The scum in this game WANT to be scum. Implicitly, that means that the scum are going to be playing very well in this game. If they have daytalk, Town could be in for a world of pain. More relevantly, it means that people who are acknowledged to prefer being scum rightfully

should

be top suspects because it's more likely that they chose to be scum and got it. (I should probably start re-evaluating my reads right now - The Stove, MoI, KK, Plum?, RC, etc.)

Other setup-relevant stuff while we're here - Lynches have to be on probscum. Passively wagoning someone who may not be scum will drive the Town body count higher, especially given 3+ kills/Night following up on it. (Hi xRx) As for scum, whoever has the most people on their team alive wins, and not attempting to crosskill is basically playing the odds that none of their own will be killed that Night.

Not liking a wagon because someone you don't like is on it isn't a good excuse in this game. Work together to lynch scum, then lynch them. Easy to do.

I have no idea what I was doing with this post.

---

Re: SpyreX part 15.5

It comes down to which version of events you believe. There's his own story, of course. There's potential for an ulterior motive in throwing away his second choice, namely that he REALLY wanted whatever color he chose. While I distinctly remember dark

red

being his color I think SpyreX prefers to be Town. And of course if you believe that the Orange claim was a lie and a slip, then of course he's scum because slipping and lying.

As mentioned before, I'm willing to side with SpyreX right now. If I'm wrong, he's readable so etc.

[Vi]

@Russel

Stove

r: Why Kdub?

---

I'm DONE with AlmasterGM, k.

xRx's play makes most sense for an SK.
*While npaiu is clearly in the lead for Least Helpful Player (albeit with stiff competition), since he hasn't bothered posting anything serious I don't think there's much reason to call him scummy in particular. In addition, the chance of npaiu getting lynched is low.
*Putting together a loose-to-nonexistent alliance based on out-of-game relations (which is against site rules anyway, but don't mind that) is bizarre at best. I'll believe it when I see Fate and Katsuki and so forth not only look Town, but do anything useful enough to warrant the alliance.
*Stuff like 274 doesn't actually mean anything long-term, ever. This change of opinion on dramonic gives a good example of how so.
*Aside from Fates Mafia, xRx's biggest and favorite win was in Revenge of the Crimson King, where he won as an SK and was in the running for a Scummy afterward.
*If you're still thinking "so what", consider that he's the definition of no threat to scum at this time but unlikely to ever get lynched. Guess what SK Day play is supposed to be.
*Bonus points for offering to hammer any wagon, which is ideal SK meta.
You're welcome.

This thread is noticeably missing Fate.

I actually don't hate dramonic's posting ITT, and have no idea what to make of that.

tanstalas has gone from wrong to still wrong with his setup theories.

---

But he didn't say this, did he? He didn't say anything even remotely resembling this. And what town purpose would there be to lie about some ulterior motive of this nature? What town motivation is there to hide any ulterior motive?

That's correct, he said nothing of the sort. This was me trying to figure out why he chose to out himself as second-

banana

orange. Then I reread and saw that he already explained himself, so that part of the post goes right out. :\

So it comes down to
*believing his explanation
*calling him a liar for some reason
and I don't really see a reason to believe he's lying.

[Vi]

it hurts make it stop
no you make it stop you have the power
i cant i cant i cant i cant

vi wweewew

werwerr we arre gvotingn kkkkkkdub why do u care

Of all the times not to have a suitable image to spam... This will have to do.


I'm assuming "we" is referring to you and xRx?
Let me put it like this - in this game, I'm fine with anyone as long as they're voting who I want them to vote.

[Vi]

So you believe his explanation despite his knowledge/experience of draft variant/alignment selection and subsequent refusal to answer direct questions about his explanation? Interesting, seeing as you were the co-mod of Pledge of Allegiance with him, I'm having a difficult time swallowing your belief of his explanation that he would think it would even be remotely possible to get a SK as his second pick.

I'm the one who brought up pick-your-alignment games in the first place, and that's because I remember random useless things. It would not surprise me if SpyreX didn't think of it until I mentioned it.

Mass color claim might be interesting but given that RC was telling people not to claim, I suspect some form of punishing mechanic to be involved. Day 1, it's probably not worth it.

Why did Plum just show up and say nothing scumhunting-related?

Does anyone have any alignment-preference meta on Kdub at all?

[Vi]

And how is his conditional reads based on Sens scummy?

Reck already did a good job of explaining why they're useless activity substitutes.

but once again this is all speculation based solely on the idea that sensfan is in fact scum
and there are like four people id rather lynch before sensfan so yeah

Plus even after saying this he still goes out of his way to call dramonic possible scum.

The Reck=SK theory is possible since D1 SK play looks similar to town play, but we'll deal with that later on if that's the case.

No idea how you got the impression that xRx's play looks similar to Town play, because if this is his Town play then joining the CAPS LAWCK alliance made him even worse at being Town than he was before.

----

xRECKONERx [1] - KageLord, nopointinactingup

1+1=1

Three pages in eight hours and none of it looks interesting.

Although now that there are a bunch of votes on Kdub, let's look at this.

*Vi - on wagon for fluffposting
*Fate - ditto
*Andrius - on wagon because Fate said so
*tanstalas - on wagon for reasoning so bad I can't summarize it
*Katsuki - no reason aside from xRx not allowing him to pick tanstalas
*xRx - on wagon because Fate said so
*The Stove - no reason given

With that in mind, here's a quote.

i like how once vi calls reck sk everyone starts piling votes onto reck
this is almost a repeat of spyspy wagon early on all this sk voting needs looking at

spyspy wagon? more like kdub wagon.
Plus one of those THREE votes on xRx (xvart unvoted) has been there almost since the game started.

Have another one.

Unvote: Kdub
Vote: xRECKONERx

(L-10)

[Vi]

vi shut the fuck up
you are really really not as good as you think you are

When did I claim I was good?
Regardless, the same to you.

personal attacks and being erratic and obnoxious are my mo
if you want to see how i play as scum go read my wiki
protip
when im actually attempting to appear town im scum

Actually not a bad point; I don't think you're Mafia at least.

I actually don't like any of the major wagons at this point, so I'll sh33p Jack and annoy xRx at the same time.

Unvote: xRECKONERx
Vote: Starbuck

(L-11)

Cut by Plum - I can vouch that tanstalas-terrible-Town appears to be par for the course. I'm not sure how to read him.

[Vi]

dramonic - Other people seem to have the impression that I'm decent at Mafia.~ I don't consciously try to put on airs, at least.
More concerning is that I think you called Jack Bad at Mafia. You'll have to explain that one.

Kdub - Yes you did and I apolgize given that I changed my mind. My knowledge of xRx is pre-CAPS LAWCK, but his self-meta is fairly accurate from what I remember.

[Vi]

i dun get it vi was that wagon on kdub just for information???

i thought he was scum for real

unvote: vote: starbuck

tehee

nah

kdub was scummy at the time

recent posts don't look particularly townish or anything but i kinda lost interest and wanted to do something different

knowing my luck this means kdub is defscum but starbuck hate is cool too

@Vi: By spyspy wagon I meant the one in the early pages where people piled onto him for his choice of orange despite the explanations. It's just so easy imo for scum to go like "OMG YOU CLAIMED ORANGE SCUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM /VOTE" with the guise of looking town.
Which is also somewhat my reasoning for the reck votes that accumulated shortly after your analysis calling reck SK.

"Accumulated" means "made by xvart and npiau", I presume...

I like the idea behind 438 insofar as I would like an

official mod clarification from BOTH mods

in terms of whether any private discussion about the game mechanics pregame ever took place, and if so, if that information could be made public.

Fate: Is or has AlmasterGM ever been a VI?

[Vi]

If Kdub is defscum why are we jumping off him again? Because you lost interest?

Maybe I had your playtsyle down wrong... I for one only back off people if they sound townish NOT even if other people act scummy as well

recent posts don't look particularly townish or anything but i kinda lost interest and wanted to do something different

knowing my luck

this means kdub is defscum but starbuck hate is cool too

reading

it's tech

plus its not like youre on the kdub wagon now anyway

and your jump off was made without my consent so -we- is probably not the best word to use

[Vi]

@Vi: Skimming right now, but it was kdub, xvart and tans who jumped on spyspy.
Aka, two of our beloved scum.

What are your thoughts on xvart?

For reasons I don't feel comfortable explaining, I think I have a fairly confident Town read on him in spite of him being on both wagons.

As an aside, and to be fair the following comment should be taken with a grain of salt, but I am starting to ponder the idea that the people in this game that love to be in alliances (capslock or otherwise) get some sort of thrill of being in cahoots with others, so I wouldn't hold it against them to want to be officially in cahoots with others and therefore select to be scum. Something to think about.

The thought has crossed my mind, BUT we'll find that out more easily when the alliance gets picked apart at Night than just speculating about it now.

Cut by a wall of notGuardian: If you were interested in the Kdub wagon, why didn't you join it while it was the leading wagon?

[Vi]

Fate at least saw the reason <_<

If you're serious about the Kdub wagon, why not vote him? (For that matter, what do you think of Starbuck?)

[Vi]

Where Did i indicate I was NOT interested in a tans wagon? If this wagon loses all total steam, maybe, but its post like that one ^^^^ (your 479) that make it lose steam by getting people off it. I like my vote where it is.

I'm more willing to vote Kdub than tanstalas, so have it your way.
That aside, why so attached to tans over Kdub? (not going to reread because I'm eating dinner; a short tl;dr would be lovely)

Plus you seem to call him(...) def scum

Okay, NOW your reading comprehension is on par with Fate's.

Well on your request, Iosed starbuck. Nonsense coming from her right now really. I think this is a convenient wagon because all she has done is post flavor instead of anything. I mean, that isnt protown, but neither has a lot of other people been. I dont see it as wagon worthy unless the point is to get her to contribute. This wagon will probably dissipate when she stars posting stuff.

Except the chances of her posting "stuff" are fairly low. Plus this behavior p.much looks like what she did as neutral/scum/etc. in Death Note Mafia.

[Vi]

Interesting that some people seem to have no idea what a large part of the starbuck wagon is about.

fos:katsuki

I'll help out by reminding people that in addition to playing like scum, she also claimed to like being scum and in this game she could choose her alignment.

Guderian - Do you play offsite?

Andrius: "Soy"? The Ur-Quan have taken over the Asian food market

[Vi]

Way too many people saying way too little.
There are (evidently)

nine scum

in this game. They're

everywhere

. It's getting to the point where everyone wants to see alignment flips of more than one person, and it just so happens that there are at least three parties in this game who have a vested interest in killing said scum at Night.
Rather than argue with people you think are scum, get other people to join wagons on them. They'll argue whether they want to be on the wagon or not, and you can change your mind then.
Thank you in advance. Also, vote Starbuck. The wagon has Jack and me, what more could you ask for?

tanstalas.

Please stop posting unless you want to change your vote. Your logic is bad and you're giving people reasons to produce even more wallposts, preventing people from catching up, likely forcing replacements and producing people who just don't have time or interest to read the game. If a wagon comes back on you we'll reconsider, but until then :takeiteasy:

Answering your question about Katsuki - Mildly suspicious. This could be from the dissonance from claiming CAPS LAWCK but attempting to be reasonable, but I was more taken aback by that strong stand on xvart-morelikelyTown (coming immediately after I said "I think xvart is Town"). Plus I'm still not sure if anyone REALLY knows why Kdub was getting voted in the first place. If you're asking for input about your argument with Katsikat, see previous textblock. Kats is also scummy for not posting with the CupcakePanda avatar more.

Guderian

- Okay, reading your post would have told me you played offsite. >.<

In EACH large theme game I have played (an one or two in other places) a whole host of people have jumped on me for posting shit like this, often containing the same words I hear here 'fluff' 'defensive' 'stupid posts'. Ok, If you think I am scum, make something out of it.

MoI in particular explained very well why you're scum based on something similar to this accusation. Also, presumably your offsite experience would preclude a "join date" argument, because you've been playing there longer and apparently you're still getting hit by these accusations.
Somewhat more importantly, wouldn't this quote be a suggestion to, y'know,

not do whatever it is you're doing?

Toogeloo

- I'm curious who you find

suspicious

.

Plum

- Talk about someone other than SensFan, please.

U. Vote Count

Starbuck [4] - Jack, The Stove, Vi, MagnaofIllusion
tanstalas [4] - SpyreX, Plum, Kdub, Guderian
xRECKONERx [3] - KageLord, xvart, Dekes
Kdub [2] - Andrius, Katsuki
nopointinactingup [2] - xRECKONERx, Fate
Katsuki [2] - SensFan, tanstalas
SensFan [2] - AlmasterGM, nopointinactingup
Andrius [1] - Starbuck
MagnaofIllusion [1] - dramonic
SpyreX [1] - Kublai Khan

Not voting [3] - Kast, Stephoscope, Toogeloo

[Vi]

setup breaking is boring and lame.

But does it work?

[Vi]

setup breaking is boring and lame.

But does it work?

Not if I can help it.

Correction:

Would

it work?

[Vi]

Starbuck is town and voting her is a waste of time.

I decided to humor you and look for why you would say this.

...it's not great, but I don't know how good a scum strategist Starbuck is.

Unvote: Starbuck
Vote: Jacques

(L-something)
Since Toogs posted everything Jack has said looks bad.

Not interested in wagoning SensFan tbh.
Although SensFan - Where's your vote?

---

The issue with color claiming is that it assumes that there are four players to a color. Given that that was the very first thing announced about this game (long before the setup was actually put together) I don't think we can guarantee that that assumption still holds. If it doesn't hold, massclaim loses a lot of value.

[Vi]

Correction: Would it work?

The only way to tell is to actually implement it. Based on your comments about assumptions not holding am I to assume you do not support it?

That question was there specifically to get an answer out of Jack.
(I reworded it because after seeing his answer I thought "No way he just said he would deliberately obstruct a massclaim".)
Considering I just pointed out why it may not work, no, I don't support it.

I don't really get good vibes from the MoI post, although that may have to do with the wallpost style exaggerating how little was said.
Right now MoI is with KK and so forth in that O.J. Simpson realm of "probably scum but not going to get convicted" so etc.

---

SensFan is scum because

1) Breaking is a total waste of time. The fiiiirst thing you should be doing when you create a game like this one is make sure massclaim doesn't break to stupid, obvious ideas. Yeah, maybe there's some obscure way to crack this, but there's NO WAY RC didn't foresee D1/D2/Dwhatever color claiming. Trying to this is just going to either mean 1) we accomplish nothing or 2) we get punished for it because we THINK we broke it, but we didn't and we shoot ourselves in the foot.

2) The fact that he is saying we need to break INSTEAD OF SCUMHUNTING is such a god awful plan I don't even know what to say. What happens when it tanks? We sit around and say, "cool, we just wasted the whole day, now let's quickwagon someone so we don't no-lynch?"

1) is fine. I actually did consider a method that would be better than a full color claim, BUT again if the setup isn't 4s across the board it won't work. Plus without people like Kast around it's dubious anyway.

2) I'm half and half on. Playing the setup usually beats playing with reads, but this is also

Day 1

.

The original question was silly, but the Princess Bride anecdote does make some sense.

---

I'll tell you what, and I probably should have done this from the beginning.

Unvote: Jak
Vote: SensFan

(L-7)

I'll work with the alliance (not the one in Kdub's avatar) while offering wise-sounding advice while supplies last.
CAPS LOCK UPON REQUEST EXCEPT WHERE NECESSARY.

U. Vote Count

SensFan (6) ~ AlmasterGM, nopointinactingup, xRECKONERx, Fate, Katsuki, Vi
tanstalas (4) ~ SpyreX, Plum, Kdub, Guderian
Starbuck (3) ~ Jack, The Stove, MagnaofIllusion
xRECKONERx (3) ~ KageLord, xvart, Dekes
Katsuki (2) ~ SensFan, tanstalas
Jack (1) ~ Toogeloo
Kdub (1) ~ Andrius
Andrius (1) ~ Starbuck
MagnaofIllusion (1) ~ dramonic
SpyreX (1) ~ Kublai Khan

Not Voting ~ Stephoscope, Kast

That should be right, anyway.

[Vi]

Re: Breaking the game - SensFan 637 is hilarious.
"You people say there

might

be reasons for massclaim not working BUT there

may

be reasons for massclaim to work SO we should

definitely

do it."
Check out those bolded key words.

Toog's 636 is strange as well. dana and RC worked together on this game, ofc; if I were co-modding a game you'd better believe I'd have to be okay with it before I let my co-mod run it. Also, breaking by color massclaim is, y'know, obvious.

---

(As a side note with 3 non-town kills I'd love to debate the idea of abandoning all hope and being just scummy enough to not get lynched so the crossfire goes up)

I'm pretty sure that's how the scum want to play, yes...

Andrius vs. Starbuck - I spent a hint coin. It said look at post 87.

SpyreX vs. SensFan - There is an element of social engineering/removing lynchbait in this wagon, yes. I'm ready to get to the part where scum get to take potshots at each other though; they have a lot more control over D2 than we do as a group. (If this doesn't blow up horribly I may have just found a new Large Game D1 theory)

Am I out of my mind in regards to that whole morass of Jack, KK, Xvart being more than a little off in SpyreX,tsk,tsk ESPECIALLY with Toogeee's showing that it wasn't just Sens but others who did the same thing?

No you're not, although I'd like to believe xvart is Town.
I'd also like to shine a spotlight on Plum for mostly focusing on that without addressing anything else; it's a good way to be right while not actually doing anything particularly productive.

---

KK 676 -
*The CAPS LAWCK bunch is quite distinct if you don't paint the members with a wide brush. Why would you say otherwise
*You're going to have to explain - for the last time - what this SpyreX hate is about.
*[advicedog]SEE ISOLATED INCIDENT | CREATE SWEEPING REFORMS[/advicedog] Get over yourself.
*I'm half tempted to suggest AlTeRnAtInG cApS just to see what would happen

U. Vote Count - 13 to lynch

SensFan (8) ~ AlmasterGM, nopointinactingup, xRECKONERx, Fate, Katsuki, Vi, Andrius, SpyreX
tanstalas (3) ~ Plum, Kdub, Guderian
Starbuck (3) ~ Jack, The Stove, MagnaofIllusion
xRECKONERx (2) ~ KageLord, xvart
Katsuki (2) ~ SensFan, tanstalas
Guderian (2) ~ Dekes, Stephoscope
MagnaofIllusion (1) ~ dramonic
Andrius (1) ~ Starbuck
SpyreX (1) ~ Kublai Khan
Jack (1) ~ Toogeloo

Not Voting: Kast

Information about Kast:

/in but won't be very active until 10th of Jan.

SpyreX: You implied npiau is Town, Y/N

[Vi]

Hey look pointless spam ... thanks so much guys

ITT MoI doesn't even look at the argument against where his vote should be. But we already know my thoughts on this.

Also, this.

AlSo Vi TyPiNg In AlTeRnAtInG cApS iS sLiGhTlY oBnOxIoUs AnD wE aRe NoT oBnOxIoUs.

Actually, I have to disagree with the last part of that.
But I'm willing to go oVeR aNd BeYoNd standards of obnoxious because it's what people expect from me

[Vi]

I'm pretty sure that's how the scum want to play, yes...

Well, yea, but what I meant is that'd be how town would want to roll if possible to drive scum early looking town and eating kills. It's like bizarro-mafia.

I think I remember seeing an Open game like that somewhere, where the scum won if they were all lynched and Town won if they were all NKd.
Nonetheless, who would we lynch in subsequent Days then?

@Starbuck: People missing incredi-blatant mod info doesn't seem unusual >_> BUT watch this.

The mods didn't specifically state (as far as I read) in the sign up thread as to which colors would be town and which wouldn't be.

If you know the flavor of Blackest Night and the Green Lantern series, you already know this information.

Starbuck is saying she

knows

which colors relate to scum, in spite of not being told as much...

In Blackest Night, the bad guys are the Black Lantern Corps. Yellow and Red kinda of war with each other throughout different eras.

Perusing Wikipedia, this is accurate - as long as they aren't attacking each other, the rainbow corps do have a common target in the Black group.

As scum, she would know this information is not applicable to this game, and it would be really obvious given that her entire scumteam would be the same color.

So etc.

---

I think I'm going to pretend I don't see this entire page that I've been cut by.

[Vi]

Vi, get in here.

I was just in this kitchen. What more do you want?

SHE IS THE TOWNS.

Or at the very least, she isn't red scum.

Given that she's in the US military in Europe, I would

hope

she's not a communist.
Come on, I've already spent two hint coins. Just spoil it for me.

[Vi]

Information about Kast:

/in but won't be very active until 10th of Jan.

I can verify Kast hasn't been onsite since Dec. 17.

[Vi]

How do you mean Vi gets Starbuck? I'm confused as to how she can't be scum.

I dedicated a giant post to this a few hours ago. Read it.

Yeah, dram is a chronic lurker. He can have one of those slots. I'm a tad hesitant because the last time I declared dramonic as scum he flipped town.

They are under the radar but they're not doing much to get OUT. I bet if we pressure them hard they'll show their true colo

rs.

Pressuring at this point in D1 is kind of useless because it takes 12 votes to get people close to a lynch.
Just lynch them; even if dramonic's Town I know from experience that lynching him carries its own therapeutic effect.

I don't know much about scum CHOOSING to be in a hydra, but I know AGar would have picked scum and I don't really think PZ would have lobbied hard for Town.

Plum is probscum for being in her own little world for so long.
MoI and KK are scum essentially by default, plus MoI has the boost of being scummy anyway.

[Vi]

KK 676 -
1*The CAPS LAWCK bunch is quite distinct if you don't paint the members with a wide brush. Why would you say otherwise
2*You're going to have to explain - for the last time - what this SpyreX hate is about.
3*[advicedog]SEE ISOLATED INCIDENT | CREATE SWEEPING REFORMS[/advicedog] Get over yourself.
4*I'm half tempted to suggest AlTeRnAtInG cApS just to see what would happen

1*Like a hyperactive disobedient dog, I'm just ignoring them for now.
2*I don't hate SpyreX. But his dancing around instead of giving a straight answer just keeps him looking scummy. Explanation later, but overall do you think that in this setup, those who are more strongly SK-hunting are more likely to be scum?
3*C'mon now. No small text should be on every mod's ruleset. Even if it's just jokey stuff.
4*You're only suggesting that because there's a 50% chance of your name being capitalized wrong, and not the wrong way you hate.

1) That doesn't answer the question.
2) I'm glad you outlined it later in your post.

The "Oh there's an SK in this setup" reaction was really dumb because I really have to question whether anyone actually believed there wouldn't be one. With that said, the SK in this game has unique identifying factors and the only person I've seen who has really had much to do with calling people different shades of scum has been xRx (to a mild extent). Because there are two scum factions I don't think SK-hunting is a particularly big deal.

3) For one post it's not quite worth blowing a stack over. More than once, then there's a problem.

4) Was I really that easy to see through? I've got to make my evil schemes more opaque.

MoI and KK are scum essentially by default,

You've called me scum three times and now I have to demand an explanation/case from you. "By default" doesn't cut it.

Sure.
In XABC you liked being scum so much you were willing to off your scumpartner for the sake of fulfilling an alternate Win Condition of destruction and evil (Pom still hasn't really gotten over that btw). I fully anticipate you picked scum in this game. Hence, "by default".

Meanwhile most of your posts don't really do much except add irrelevant commentary or ask light questions - your post #1 is a particularly catchy example of this, and it doesn't stop until you start latching onto SpyreX. But I did find this while reviewing.

The reason I bring this up and overall want to stop blind color claiming is that we have to remember that this is Black Lantern Mafia and not Lantern Corps Mafia. Losing one's ring doesn't not necessarily result in death and I'm theorizing that it's possible to be "found" by other rings/factions. And I'm sure Nekron is involved somewhere/somehow. Probably as a cult mechanic.

I'm sorry, I don't see this information anywhere in the modposts. Do continue along these lines.

tanstalas-scum - Y/N?
tanstalas-Christmas Tree - Y/N?

[Vi]

Eh, don't bring up XABC. I played very badly as I distracted by something IRL that made mafia take a backseat.

Also, what's that logic again? I love being scum so much that I betrayed my scumpartners and tried for a third partyish WC?

Pretty much.

I hate being scum. And this is my second game back from a year-long absence from mafia. I picked town/town.

Excuse me if I don't take your word for it. Is there anything that supports this?

tanstalas-Christmas Tree refers to this latest nickname he's gotten. It's a joke.

---

Vi: No.

Yes. Maybe. I'd like to buy a vowel.

Regarding Day1 color claim, I'm skittish even though it doesn't look like we have anything to lose that we can put a finger on. Call me conservative, but . . . and yet I doubt that the punishment factor, assuming there is one, would be strong enough to screw us over and I doubt we'd be in much worse position compared to now. Oh dammit. I'm doubtful that there is a major major downside, maybe just say screw it and go for it. Or, better yet, ask about Vi's idea. Vi, you had an idea for an alternative to colors-claim?

The more I think about it, the more it wouldn't work. The idea was to have just one color claim and work with each color.

I'll freely admit the SensFan wagon has no small amount of social engineering involved. Unless he starts doing something vastly different from his play in this game and in past games, he's not going to be more than accidentally helpful. And more than anything I'd just as soon get to Night and let the people who have power over this game start trimming away the people who are scummy.

Re: tanstalas - I don't know anything about scum-tanstalas, but I suspect bad logic is a null-tell. I don't think he's worth getting upset over Today.

---

Reck, your alliance doesn't have the leading wagon. Your response?

[Vi]

I may throw my vote down on Star, but I would like to clear the air surrounding the matter before I commit. Reck states that he knows Star is town, and Vi apparently caught on as to why. Is there any reason to keep this from the rest of us? I don't care if Reck says it or Vi says it, but Star's lynch is a very good possibility, and if information pertaining to the lynch is helpful in stirring in the right direction, it should be brought to the attention of everyone and not just a select few who have the possibility of coming back tomorrow with something like, "I told you she was town."

So you're apparently reading Reck's posts but not mine?

(note that my answer is probably not reck's but good luck getting a straight answer out of him)

I'd answer whatever it was Fate said but all I read was "sheep sheep baa~ah".

[Vi]

Toogs: this

I still haven't, and I'm pretty sure I asked, seen a reason why "I'm copy-pasting stuff" = "not for hot, sweet death"

The reason is basically "lol, Jack".

[Vi]

wheeee

Unvote: SensFan
Vote: Guderian

(L-6)

I'm still wondering what took Reck so long though. Isn't one scum on the list as good as another?

---

MoI - I'm already aware that she flurks when she wants to stay out of the way. Have you (or anyone) seen Starbuck-Town?

---

Kast - This has been repeated a few times but I wasn't even looking at the questionnaire when I typed up the last part of my first post. If I answered a question it was by accident.

I'm well aware SensFan whines a lot. I'm not particularly of the mind that SensFan is scum, and you'll come to find that I've said that even while keeping a vote on him, because he's useless during the Day. I know he was here earlier but chose not to post.

Also, you're maybe the fourth person in this game who has confessed to knowing anything about the flavor.

[Vi]

Guderian [8] - Dekes, Stephoscope, Plum, nopointinactingup, The Stove, xRECKONERx, Vi

*bzz*

[Vi]

Vi showed that he also didn't care as much about Star in light of Reck's commentary, I have no qualms laying it down.

?

[Vi]

Vi showed that he also didn't care as much about Star in light of Reck's commentary, I have no qualms laying it down.

?

Are you trying to confuse me? The link you posted at appeared that you were trying to post that Star didn't look good because she knew the scum despite saying she didn't know what colors she was choosing when she signed up, or something to that effect >_> ...

When I stated you agreed with Reck about Star meta, you told me I didn't read your posts.


So were you correcting me, or telling me that I was right for the wrong reasons, or something else all together?


Maybe you could just lay it down for me.

Vi, do you think Star is scum? Simple yes or no please >_>.

That's... an interesting interpretation of what I pointed out. I actually said that she had no idea who the scum were, even though she could at least GET an idea through reading the modpost and it would be too obvious to miss if she were scum and noticed that her team was all the same color. Based on this I

don't

think she's scum and do not endorse the wagon.

If there actually is a Black group in this game then this is void. What do I know :\

I have no idea what Reck is thinking - hence the continued questioning - so etc. The above argument is ORIGINAL CONTENT DO NOT STEAL.

I'm well aware that Starbuck fluffs about as scum. I don't know her Town meta, though (although I suspect it's not much different).

Until then lol, Jack is going to piss me off.

I'm pretty sure that's par for the course as well.
Although come to think of it I can't remember seeing Jack-scum before (Encore Mafia doesn't count).

[Vi]

Vi: Is this you asking for Jack-scum meta?

If you're offering.

I'm not sure I understand the Kdub scumclaim (I see where Starbuck somehow became a considerable wagon in spite of it not being a good wagon per Jack's post) but etc.

Guderian has 10 votes; 13 to lynch.

[Vi]

I'm also not liking you harping on Reck and dramonic. I'm sure it's already been mentioned but Plum and her sister play games together too. It's the same thing. I trust that they don't discuss games outside of the thread.

Note: This hasn't been true for a while precisely because of issues like accidentally being logged in as each other.
In fact, that's precisely how Pomegranate wound up on this site, with accompanying scandal.

I'm also not a fan of using information from outside the game. Isn't there a rule on MS about that?

Only for ongoing games. There are rules about "not bringing outside wagers, etc. into the game" but never mind that.

----

FoS for not reading the game seems pretty good to me actually >_>.
Wouldn't that be some of the worst anti-town behavior you can display?

Not necessarily. I know Xyl in particular refused to read games he replaced into, and didn't seem to be worse off for it.

people wanting to end the day earlier and let power take over also makes me uncomfortable. I like my Day 1s, and I really don't like seeing them end early. They provide the most interaction between players than you will find anywhere else in the game. I want the most reads I can get as well going into the night.

We have enough information at this point, I think. At this point it's basically the Fate+Kat show intermixed with people complaining about Fate and Kat and general not-going-anywhere. There is already a wide variety of information about most players in the game.

Not sure where this SK conversation came from. Find scum, lynch scum. Incredibly easy stuff.

----

The best Guderian case OTH is in MoI's #5, #6 and #9. Be prepared to give your scroll wheel/PgDn key a workout.

[Vi]

I'm not feeling to keen on

[MoI]

being town.

He's not.
Also, I'm going to start calling him Moai to add a little pagan cultism to his kaijuu rampaging.

I don't think Andrius would be a good play Today. If he's scum, he'll be scrambling in the near future.

[Vi]

Lordy, lordy, we're all in trouble because Vi is likely-scum in this game.

Remember, it's pronounced "Ahmgus".
It also ignores things like
*how it's no secret that I prefer to be Town
*how if I'm scum, I'm actually NOT a likely threat in this game because of how quickly I'll get killed

[Vi]

Lordy, lordy, we're all in trouble because Vi is likely-scum in this game.

Remember, it's pronounced "Ahmgus".
It also ignores things like
*how it's no secret that I prefer to be Town
*how if I'm scum, I'm actually NOT a likely threat in this game because of how quickly I'll get killed

It's not OMGUS. Your case is default/meta/fail. My case is gut.

Oh, so it's WIFOMGUS. My mistake.

[Vi]

And this is really why we made MoI bulletproof. Who wants Black Dead N1?

...

- It's quite hard for town to win this game. They have to do extremely well overall to pull this off.
- It's very hard for Red and Yellow to win this game. Mostly due to color-claiming.
- It's swingy for Orange to win this game. He had a good chance and did well, but it didn't work out.
- It could have been much easier for Black to dominate this game, they just had some bad luck.

One of these things is NOT like the others.

It's just failure to blackhunt on everyone else's part that is making it so easy for them to win.

No.

First thing. If you want someone to potentially die, you don't make them bulletproof. The idea that scum and Town will agree to set aside their differences and hunt for Black is a silly fantasy, one that would only possibly occur when all the scum are already screwed over.

Second, Fate or Katsuki or whoever nailed it in saying that Town just wants to lynch obvious scum. Unless there is some explicit gain in lynching one scum over another, any scum will do, just because it's so hard to lynch scum in the first place.

Third, allow me to put this into perspective.
Offsite, I played in a so-called "bastard mod" game. We lynched scum the first Day. We lynched the mod-as-player SK Day 2. We lynched scum the third Day. There was no kill N4, and we were informed that we were in conditional LyLo. At great length we eventually lynched someone who was not technically scum, but if left alive could choose to convert to scum that Night with their Mason partner, endgaming the Town. Town won, but because a single mislynch would have caused Town to lose, the game was judged to be so poorly designed that that mod will have to wait a very, very long time to try again.

Now consider this game, where Town lynched scum every Day

and still lost

. AND had massclaim issues. AND (while it didn't have a mod-as-player) easily vaulted into having more scum than the Town could ever lynch. AND had mutable alignments. AND was heavily influenced by the Night game ("Town did horrible in the Night game"? Town can't work together in the Night game!) making every Day after one a matter of "which obvscum do we lynch".

And what really takes this from "very, very failed experiment" to "inexcusable" is that you two are trying to pull this off like you're blameless. The closest thing to an apology or acknowledgment that the game might have been unbalanced was dku's "This is the first time I've run a five-faction game and I think it went well, didn't you?". I even pointed out a better version of the Cult that would have worked with this kind of game, but NOPE, what went on ITT was exactly what you wanted.

I'm not going to go away mad after this, but I

am

going away.

*Advice Dog pic*

I'm glad someone's keeping that meme alive.

But that assumes that killing scum was the only thing necessary for a town win. <-- and look how ridiculous that sounds, too.

. . .

[Vi]

1. When there are 10 scum in a 25-player game, lynching scum is significantly easier than in a 3-3-18 setup. Especially given the poor play of the entire red team, which we didn't count on being compromised all in one day. We also expected their godfather not to be the first one lynched, due to the nature of his investigation immunity. One might even imply that their implosion was a catalyst for the game swinging the way it did.

Dare I ask how? Fewer scum becoming obvious from the Night actions, thus increasing the chance of a Town lynch?

2. How do you suggest we had nerfed the cult, Vi?

*Secret Cult
*Cult cannot recruit after its presence is made public

If we had not given the bulletproof to Magna, the faction integral to the flavor/surprise would have died N1.

So freaking what?!

3. The ways we DID nerf the cult were that they couldn't recruit the scum team leaders,

so what

they couldn't talk to any scum they'd recruited (though the scum's wincon would have changed to the cult wincon, and the cult would have been informed of their new member),

so what (many games don't let you recruit scum)

and last and certainly not least, everyone who they recruited lost any role abilities they had.

You're underestimating what kind of power is involved in recruitment. Heavily. And you played Supernatural Mafia.

4. I'm not saying we're blameless at all, but I AM saying that this was quite a swingy setup, and it could have EASILY swung another way. Town had a veritable sh*tload of power, mason recruiters, cops, roles-that-weren't-supposed-to-be-used-as-cops-but-were-held-by-Andrius-so-they-were-used-as-cops-anyway, and a ton of other cultsplosion-mitigating factors.

I think you're contradicting that quote I put up earlier about this being a difficult Town game...
The sheer excess of power Town had is a separate issue altogether.

5. You are giving absolutely no credit to Magna for an extremely well-played game. His avoidance of guilt was fantastic, his recruitment choices were fantastic, and his endgame was fantastic.

I'm biased against someone I called out D1 (and didn't retract).
Nonetheless it seems like success in this game was inversely proportional to the number of scumpartners you had.