Blackest Night Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[MagnaofIllusion]

First let me say Greetings to all those I’ve Modded or played with and offer a warm Hello to those I don’t. Looking at the player list the vast majority fall into the former category.

Answering AGM’s questions

–

1. Second choice. Hardly a surprise given how popular my first choice was.
2. By stating I would be Vigging I surmise the question assumes I am of Town alignment, in which case I see no player on the player-list worthy of a policy Vig.
3. Let me simply repeat what I say in Choose Your Side when you asked the same question – there is nothing to gain by cheating in an online game where the only thing at stake is your pride.
4 / 5. Under both scenarios I would offer a 50/50 split. Each player in that sort of game isn’t doing anything significant to earn the money other than making smart choices. By offering the decision maker less than an equal split I wouldn’t be making a smart choice.

2. Yes, I would kill Magna for the lulz, and he would hate me eternally

Personally I think only one response is appropriate -

p.s. AGM, I fully expect to receive gifts and/or love notes from you because of the last time we were in a large together. <3

So you expect goodwill for betraying your Town alignment instead of using your brain and lynching obv-Not-Unlynchable AGM in Choose Your Side? Noted.

I would like to present the following, since everyone took the risk by joining this game (and SSBF isn't here to do this for me): people's wiki pages have some indication of alignment preference, and we (SSBF) used this information to hunt down some 3rd party players in Comedy of Whims, an game where you selected your alignment.

Um, what? You are claiming credit for that? Really? You certainly didn’t miss me playing in this game. Why you thought you should be claiming credit for that I find confusing.

I feel like outing the results of my search would be beneficial to the town, but I can see why judging people's choices of their preferences is grey area. But you can bet your ass that I would, as Vig, start shooting down those players first.

If you actually thought it would benefit Town you would have done it right away.

And for the record – I see you breadcrumb. Why does the character you are crumbing not match up with your stated color preferences of Indigo / Violet when you claim to have gotten your choice?

@NoPoint

– Why only answer a portion of AGM’s questions?

vi town would think im pullin a gambit to get confirmed again like last time iw as scum

So you outright state you claim Town status immediately / in a sign-up thread when scum? Good to know.

VOTE: Fate

Red falls under the "purple" category because it has red as a component of purple. You can't have purple without red... Red Scum!

I’m guessing you’ve chosen this specifically stupid line of attack as a ‘tactic’ to get out of RVS. Why?

If Fate is attempting to imitate razorback I am amused.

Having played with razorback in my second game on site I lulzed.

Re: tanstalas and setup meta - A few things about that.

To add some further data that supports Vi’s assertion – in SaintK’s Choose Your Side that Andrius and I are mentioning only 2 of 18 players chose Mafia. The remainder were fairly evenly split between 3rd Party and Town.

Finally regarding AGM and his questions

– He started Choose Your Side with a similar set of questions. He happened to be 3rd Party recruiter in that game so it doesn’t qualify as any significant alignment tell of any sort here.

[MagnaofIllusion]

sorry kublai i have a post restriction i cant talk good about why viscum

I didn’t know pointless rhetoric was a post restriction. You learn something everyday.

didn't want to be scum. Thus, I picked town first. However, it's been a long, long time (if ever?) since I've been an SK so that might be a hoot. So, town/sk. SK second because that way IF I get my first pick I then can throw out the (albeit not very) useful tidbit that SK is probably in the game.

Umm, what?

You did read the first posts where Mod says the following, right?

You also know that there is only one Orange Lantern.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Everyone voting for Spyrex

– I’d like to know how his mind-bogglingly strange logic regarding choosing Orange as a second color and it being meaningful (which appears to be from a misunderstanding of how roles would be distributed) is in any way a scum-tell.

Also Fate/xReck RIP caps lawk ... the caps was much funnier to read than the nocaps/bad spelling eyesore.

I cannot disagree more. I much prefer seeing Fate and his crew forced to wallow in the territory of Razorback / Vezok / Furcolow than having to see page after page of pointless all-caps posting.

That's actually interesting information if true. It likely means that too many people requested scum.

Do you see a reliable way to test his veracity other than having him flip? Because I can’t say I’m that thrilled to have a Townie playing the game who is pissed he isn’t scum if he wasn’t lying.

Further I suggest from what I know about SSBF I would doubt taking the scum route would be his logical choice of action. Given how he felt about his SK role in Clash of Kings Mafia him throwing Orange as a color choice feels very unlikely.

Actually, that in itself is enough to make me doubt Sens's story and move my vote to him.

UNVOTE: Fate
VOTE: Sensfan

I think whoever it was that suggested that there were color quotae may have been on the mark, although 9 scum in a 24 player game sounds kind of crazy.

Not to question your pedigree as Mod Vi but that sort of set-up seems in-vogue here on MS as of late.

Clash of Kings had two 4 player scum teams and a Serial Killer.
Lord of the Rings had two 4 player scum teams and a 3rd Party joint survivor.

Both were fairly close in terms of overall player number, IIRC. Clash had a higher Town PR concentration than LOTR but both were fairly balanced, IMO.

only reason i can see spyspy picking orange second is to confirm the presence of an orange
that or he had some small inner desire and hope of being sk

Um what?

1. Picking Orange second is irrevelant to whether Orange exists or not since it is OBV OBV OBV that there is a color quota.
2. If he had a small inner desire to be a SK he would have picked Orange first.

how about scumhunting instead of bitching all game long?

The irony here is over-whelming. The Caps-Lawk crew (which you look to be applying for Junior Membership with) is throwing the equivalent of a temper tantrum for not being able to CAPS LAWK and you have the gaul to tell someone else to stop bitching?

Town should not be volunteering their color choices without good reason. Doing so helps scum since the mods said almost everyone would get one of their choices, and the scum are better informed to work out who might be what color.

I’d like to know how Scum working out colors for players in any way helps them. VTs can be of any Town Color (G-B-I-V).

Also why so up in arms over Spyrex ‘outting’ colors when Andrius directly claimed either Violet or Indigo in his posts?

Which brings me to my real point in all of this. I have strong reason to believe that mod preference played a part in the roles handed out. I don't know too much about either of the mods (beyond the fact RC dislikes me), so for those of you who do: assuming mod preference played a part in the assigning of roles, who would be most likely to have received a role that was presumably highly requested (SK), or else a Scum role if they prefer Scum?

If you seriously believe this then replace out. Tin-foil hat Mod theories will not be doing the game any good. I’ve played under both RC and dana. Neither has shown any inclination I have seen as Mods to favor players in role-assignments.

It should have been apparent, IMO, that the color ranking process was designed to slot as many players as possible with their 1st or 2nd choices in a 4-4-4-4-4-4-1 set-up.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Damnit MoI you might spoil something I'm waiting to see how it pans out.

(And I didn't spoil my color - I said Orange was my second (and it was because of a small inner desire) but I sure as hell haven't said what color I actually am)

I aim to please

... er sorry?

And I know you didn't spoil your color. My question to KDub has little to do with the accuracy of his attack and has everything to do with the consistency of it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also, the fact that you're voting me because you don't think SSBF would have submitted Scum is pretty laughable, if I read that right. It's also something I'm completely unable to defend or explain, FWIW.

I don't feel the story you are floating that SSBF would include Orange, a Serial Killer color, in his choices after his experience in Clash of Kings makes any sense. Go read SSBF's comments post game in Clash of Kings and make an argument my thoughts are invalid.

Your inability to speak for him doesn't mean I can't question what I see as a potential lie.

[MagnaofIllusion]

God damn it my router went down right as I was almost caught up … and guys had to add two freaking pages.

@Reck and Fate

– If you are Town please don’t be so fucking stupid. Then again if you are scum feel free to tea-party towards a Modkill.

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Jack’s research that shows Starbuck actually prefers Scum roles makes this first part easy.

Wallowing in flavor information as opposed to scum-hunting and that tidbit make her a good lynch.

UNVOTE: Sensfan
VOTE: Starbuck

For the reasons below or previously I would likely support a lynch / Toog hypo-Dayvig on Tans, NoPoint, Gund and perhaps Sens of course.

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AGM DID YOU JUST FUCKING CLAIM A RING AND A POWER ROLE FOR NO GODDAMN REASON?

Are you seriously asking in a game where EVERYONE HAS A RING this question?

Seriously?

FFS
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@Tanstalas

– Your tinfoil hat conspiracy theories that I’ve seen floated in the last 10 pages (thanks spammers!) are completely out there. I would like you to answer one question.

1)I do think that 9 scum in a 25 man game seems a little too much

Why at this point did you believe this? Seriously, I want to know.

Previous to this post I’ve already directly referenced two recent vintage Large Theme Games with multiple scum teams.

Clash of Kings – Two Mafia with 4 members each, a Serial Killer and 26 total players.
LOTR – Two Mafia with 4 members each (although 1 had an unknown traitor), a 3rd Party Daykilling role that could joint with multiple factions, and 25 total players.

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people who need to post more include
jack
dekes
stephoscope

Why does this list not include Kast who had not posted at all in thread as of that point?

if dram is scum and thats a bigggggg if
then vi and agm are town since he ignored them completely

Is this part of your ‘Dram loves to bus’ meta you are throwing out there for Dram? Because Lost Season 2 Mafia seriously begs to differ with that meta.

even if the fakeclaims are distributed evenly theres still gonna be one color group that has a fuckload more people claiming in it than the others

Um what? I’d love to see the math on how spreading 9 Mod-provided fake-claims between 4 Town colors leads to a large group in one color. Really.

You can stop trying to play suboptimally to avoid the NK any time now. This playerlist doesn’t sport the usual deadweight.

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I'm not. It was SSBF, IIRC. But we did catch animorpherv1 (and manho via him) by doing this, and YOU, IIRC.

You recall completely wrong.

1. I was the one who did the meta research and started the train on the Ani policy lynch.
2. I got killed N1 by Seraphim scum so I don’t see how you caught me.

It’s funny how you didn’t even bother to check that out.

It would, I think. I just feel like its a tad unfair to those of you who I KNOW favor 3rd party roles

Why would you worry about this? Unlike Choose Your Side, there is only 1 3rd Party role in this game. Why would you be being unfair when all those players who like 3rd Parties are very unlikely to get that choice.

AGM didn't answer his questions last time either.

Actually he did (if you are referring to Choose Your Side), it was just delayed as it was here.

I agree scum/SK might have an alt wincon, but I'd put my money on the SK rather than the scum. (Scum having an alt wincon we don't know about is OFF)

1. Since you are the only player to actually out their color in thread directly you will be a good test case. If your ring isn’t gone tomorrow I think the possibility of a LOTR style win condition drops dramatically.
2. Really? A scum win condition like collecting the One Ring and Three Elven Rings that only the Elven Ring Holders apparently knew about is OFF you say?

MagnaofIllusion - 3rd party (comedy of whims, other)

You really shouldn’t talk about on-going games.

Smacks Andrius with a ruler.

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Buddy up to Magna time! Vote:Senfan

Yeah … I remember the last time you blatantly buddied up to me. IIRC it was Mini 1040, you were Scum and it didn’t end well for Town.

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Yellow and Red kinda of war with each other throughout different eras.

Wasn’t the actions of Sinestro’s Corps the direct reason why the Red Corps under Atrocious came into being? IIRC Atrocious HATES the Yellow Corps with a passion. All the speculation being done about Yellow and Red working together doesn’t make much sense.

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@Sens vs MoI: Scummalicious =D
now which is scummier, the guy who goes ''woe is me, the mod hates me and is out to smite me because he's nothing better to do'', or the one going ''Since the person you are replacing is likely to be town, and you say he chose scum and say you are town, you must be scum!''...

Let’s look at the what we know.

1. Sens claims that SSBF sent in a color choice of Scum / SK.
2. SSBF in Choose Your Side chose a Town alignment over either Scum or 3rd party.
3. SSBF wasn’t thrilled with his play in Clash of Kings as a Serial Killer.

I don’t think SSBF sending Scum / SK makes much sense. I could see SK / Town perhaps but Choose Your Side makes me strongly believe he would choose Town over Scum.

I think what Sens is claiming doesn’t make sense. If he’s lying about what SSBF supposedly sent in then any of what he’s saying is likely to be taken with a grain of salt. Thus the pressure vote. Duh.

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There seems to be an easy smokescreen to hide behind in this game, and that is speculation about color. The colors people choose, the orders, whether you got them or not, whether to claim them or not etc. I have yet to read anything said by anyone that is really concrete on this issue, and by page 2/3 I think that should of been apparent to everyone else as well. This is bugging me that so deep into page 9/10 people are still filling half of their post with 'ideas' about what to do.

This is a classic ‘I want to look like helpful Town’ post that scum make. You complain about speculation but take not one action about. You don’t accuse any of the people doing the color speculation on page 9/10 of being scum directly.

I believe that it is incredibly likely one (or both) of these two is scum considering they both have switched onto eachother in self preservation mode. It seems to me that each has to a degree stopped worrying about other people and what they may be doing or acting scummish, and have instead gone porcupine.

Please explain how why Town players with potentially useful PRs might not do the same thing to attempt to ward of claiming? The reads as setting the stage for a call for either Kdub’s or Tans’ head if the other flips town.

You make my scum list also …

MOI says he prefers a 'town cop'

Really? Can you provide a link / quote to that. Because I don’t EVER remember saying so.

[MagnaofIllusion]

does MoI = EPR?

Does EPR stand for

E

xtremely

P

ain-in-the-ass wall-posting-

R

esponder? If not and it refers to some player from the mists of Mafiascum past then no, it does not equal.

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IMO starbuck will show her true

colors

sooner than later.

I lulzed at this. What punmenship.

Disclaimer: I have absolutely no flavor knowledge of Blackest Night, aside from who the good and bad colours are by virtue of factions in OP and loose wiki knowledge.

JUST FOR YOU, MOI. <3

Thanks so kindly Katsuki. I love when people drop personal tells that have so far run 100% (2/2) in determining their alignment.

You are a gentlemen and a scholar!!

This is half-hearted sarcasm for anyone who doesn’t understand the history that generated this comment by Kats.

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Did you fail basic math?

even if the fakeclaims are distributed evenly theres still gonna be one color group that has a

fuckload more people claiming in it than the others

I don’t know if you failed basic math but claims of 6-6-6-7 means one Town color has an excess of 1. That hardly qualifies as what I bolded above.

Questions on that issue –

1. If there are Mod provided fake-claims (which we can’t really know now anyway) and we get a 6-6-6-7 mass claim would you suggest hunting from the group with likely has Agent Orange in it or one of the others?
2. If there aren’t Mod provided fake-claims (again, we can’t really know) and we were to color claim and get something like 4-5-6-10 for some odd reason would you consider the 4 group confirmed Town?

That was a fluke.
Trust me on this one, Magna.
Dram is scum, and his buddies are SensFan & NPIAU.

Since your list of scum besides Dram looks good and you are actually using capitals and punctuation I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt on this for the moment, if only because I saw [REDACTED].

God, you're a douchefuck.

Ok … love ya too

. Are you saying that avoiding a NK didn’t play even a smidgeon into your little protest? Really?

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MoI, are you saying you think SSBF sent two town colors and was given a scum role?
Do you really think that has ANY chance of happening?

1. I’m saying that I don’t really buy his story as presented so I don’t trust anything he’s claiming there.
2. In a game where I would guess Blue / Green to be an overwhelming choice combination I’m not willing to rule out someone asked for Town and got shafted with Scum.

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1. Sometimes I get really pissed off on this site because people seem to view a later join date as an 'easier mark'. In EACH large theme game I have played (an one or two in other places) a whole host of people have jumped on me for posting shit like this, often containing the same words I hear here 'fluff' 'defensive' 'stupid posts'. Ok, If you think I am scum, make something out of it. I see this in a lot of games I play, and (not always in regards to me). A few suggestions here or there and out of nowhere a bandwagon has appeared.

Make your convictions and prove it, but don't lucidly hold onto something because you think It'll be easy to lynch someone.

Let’s see –

Using the ‘Suspicion is based on join date’ card? Check
Suggesting a bandwagon when having NOT A SINGLE VOTE? Check
Asking for ‘proof’ that he is scum in a Mafia game? Check
Ignoring the two salient points I made against you directly in an attempt to hand-wave away suspicion? Check

Yeah … you’re scum.

What is this I dont even. This statement could easily have been left at 'dont be fucking stupid.' What Your last sentence is trying to achieve is beyond me.

First the second sentence was clearly there to further tweak Reck and Fate.
Second if they are acting in a manner which is likely to draw a Mod-kill and don’t happen to be Town would you actually object to them continuing to ‘act the fool’, as it were?

[MagnaofIllusion]

The whole Katsuki and Tans back and forth that starts around page 21 makes my brain hurt. I can’t say that I can recall seeing more futile uselessness in a back and forth outside of 1st graders …

NoPoint continues to be scum and I await Gud’s response to our latest exchange.

@Gud

– Nothing to say at 550 or 556 in defense of your scummy response to me? Scumtastic!

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Correction: Would it work?

The only way to tell is to actually implement it. Based on your comments about assumptions not holding am I to assume you do not support it?

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LOL PWND.

What’s odd is that I didn’t play in Princess Bride Mafia with Sens and Jack and I knew exactly what Jack was getting at, but Sens who was directly involved attempts to play it off. More scum-points for Sens.

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CAPSLAWKALLIANCE = ALIGNMENT CONFIRMED MASONS, NEXT!

Just stop this stupidity … please.

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There are a couple people on both leading lynches I don't really care for.

Who are they? Statements like this are not very useful, Panda.

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Any sane man knows that scum have no motivation to run headfirst into a modkill, but he leaves that option "open" just in case he needs to wagon hop later.

Yeah, you seem to forget that Town has no motivation for acting like a spoiled child either. Oh wait, don’t let that little fact get in the way of your ego-driven response that amounts to ‘Anyone who questions my stupidity must be scum’.

So what exact alignment read am I supposed to get from temper-tantrums and play that you said was meant to be ineffective?

I’d like to know. Because I all have seen from you is FUCKING USELESSNESS.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey look pointless spam ... thanks so much guys

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Mods

– Why in the hell did I get a warning on Caps Lawking?

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@ Reck re 626

– Since you are so sure Dram is scum would you consider lynching him today?

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Also, it shows a preference of anti-town sentiments, so it wouldn't be hard to link that to preference to scum over town.

It would be hard if anyone tried to make the argument that a preferring a 3rd Party role means said person would pick scum. Since if I preferred scum I would have picked that in Choose Your Side.

*is smacked* Its not really on-going if you're dead, MoI. /braces for smacking

You know very well this isn’t how the Site Rules work …

Is this referring to The Game That Must Not Be Named? Otherwise I don't have a clue.

Andy are you being purposefully dense? You were an Igor-Mod for LOTR Mafia!!!

If Fate is modkilled then I *might* consider joining the cause.
After claiming.
Because we are free Americans.

If you did not lie in your character claim and act to get yourself modkilled I will use my Matrix powers to reach through the internet and give you an Atomic Wedgie.

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MoI, (what point do you want me to answer?)

Since you ask –

There seems to be an easy smokescreen to hide behind in this game, and that is speculation about color. The colors people choose, the orders, whether you got them or not, whether to claim them or not etc. I have yet to read anything said by anyone that is really concrete on this issue, and by page 2/3 I think that should of been apparent to everyone else as well. This is bugging me that so deep into page 9/10 people are still filling half of their post with 'ideas' about what to do.

What was your scum-hunting motive in this statement? You don’t specify anyone who you find scummy for using the ‘smoke-screen’ on page 9/10.

I believe that it is incredibly likely one (or both) of these two is scum considering they both have switched onto eachother in self preservation mode. It seems to me that each has to a degree stopped worrying about other people and what they may be doing or acting scummish, and have instead gone porcupine.

Is voting in self-preservation a scum-tell?

1. Sometimes I get really pissed off on this site because people seem to view a later join date as an 'easier mark'. In EACH large theme game I have played (an one or two in other places) a whole host of people have jumped on me for posting shit like this, often containing the same words I hear here 'fluff' 'defensive' 'stupid posts'. Ok, If you think I am scum, make something out of it. I see this in a lot of games I play, and (not always in regards to me). A few suggestions here or there and out of nowhere a bandwagon has appeared.

Make your convictions and prove it, but don't lucidly hold onto something because you think It'll be easy to lynch someone.

Why attempt to discredit suspicion of you as “Join Date” hunting when I don’t recall anyone calling you a newb?
How did you have a Wagon when not a single person was voting for you as of this post by yourself?

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ITT MoI doesn't even look at the argument against where his vote should be. But we already know my thoughts on this.

I looked that the argument. I don’t find it outweighs

1. The Starbuck provided information that she prefers Scum roles.
2. Starbuck’s play in Stardust Mafia as a Serial Killer where she pretty much tried to lurk out pressure on her and completely avoided scum-hunting while repeated posting about how she was too busy to post. I’m not convinced that her scum play would be much different in a multi-scum Large game environment.

But by all means continue to make offhand jabs in an attempt to provoke me.

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*sucks thumb*
*proceeds to drool*

Sadly this is your most readable and least annoying post all game.

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There hasn't been anything, and for that I apologize. But I'm pretty sure my vote is in the right place.

Have you actually been reading the thread? If so you should have time for some comments.

If not how do you know your vote is in the right place?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Look out – it’s a TINY post from MoI. Let the grave-rolling commence …

-Do you have multiple instances of SSBF claiming to hate SK?

Nope. My feeling was the combination of SSBF’s post game Clash statements (where he didn’t say he hated them but did post in a manner that I suggest he would not go that route via choice) and his Town choice in Choose Your Side.

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MoI - I'm already aware that she flurks when she wants to stay out of the way. Have you (or anyone) seen Starbuck-Town?

I’d have to review Superanatural Mafia to get a good look at her short tenure. She certainly didn’t leave the impression on me there that she did in Stardust.

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When you play with me or have played with me as much as Reck, Kdub, Plum, Zito, etc, then you can make statements about my meta.

Spare me your indignation. I will use whatever I wish when making judgements. If I have direct experience with your play as a Non-Town faction in a single game that I think bears weight on my read on you I will use it.

That said you clearly are escaping the noose with your large catch-up that basically cast suspicion on those who voted for you.

UNVOTE: Starbuck
VOTE: Guderian

[MagnaofIllusion]

That Andrius still has his [REDACTED] ring (or hasn’t claimed Vi stole it) makes me believe the ‘Outed Ring Color Collector’ theory to be bunk.

Vi’s janitoring pretty much signals to me that she was killed by Yellow scum. Red scum no longer have a Janitor (or I assume so since Atrocious is dead and they better not have two) and I can’t see Yellow wasting a janitor night action on someone they can’t be certain is going to die otherwise.

TL DR summary of below

- Reck's list is still good. NoPoint and Sens have now been joined by Steph on the Crosskill / Lynch express.

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more posts moi needs to post a wall hes ojscum or yellowscum or w/e

I put this right up front so you couldn’t miss it. And I double checked the rules to make sure our Tyrannous Overlords didn’t outlaw the following –

3 Month Avatar Bet

– If I die or due to janitoring am revealed in Post Game as Red, Yellow, or Orange Scum (yeah, I threw in Red for you as a freebie) you can choose any site valid avatar and I will use it on this account for three months.

If I die or due to janitoring am revealed anything else Post Game and I get to choose the site valid avatar you use on the Fate account for three months.

Willing to put your Avatar where your mouth is and show you really aren’t just a blow-hard who doesn’t truly believe they are as good as they posture?

I am. I’ve never lost one of these bets. Usually people aren’t willing to take them (Spyrex, remember that in Victorian Vampire Mafia?) or back out like Furc-VI in Reaper’s BandB Mafia (remember that Kast?).

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Kats was scummy yesterday and that's good evidence, there were only three deaths though. Kats should claim.

To further develop that line of thinking, based on my ‘Vi killed by Yellow’ thoughts above, that if Kats is scum who caused Reck to die via Mason mis-fire then the Red kill is probably missing.

Either that or Red just outright killed Reck since he nailed two of their members on his scumlist and the Masonize death either didn’t occur or was covered up.

@MODS – Would overkill (two kill sources on one player) show in the flavor?

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I breadcrumbed it I'm a hider and I have no idea why I'm not dead yet.

Where did you breadcrumb?

Your claim stinks pretty badly. John Stewart as a Hider? And that you must have been blocked since you didn’t die behind Vi? That sounds like you are making that up to cover Spyrex’s unrevealed role-information to me.

It must have been because I was roleblocked or

Vi was janitored.

Emphasis added. Janitoring has nothing to do with this. Vi died. You hid behind him. Thus regardless of whether he was janitored you should be worm food. The question is -- were you role-blocked? I honestly don't want anyone pipping up to say so since they are likely a Town PR given how scummy you were yesterday.

VOTE: NoPoint

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Examining nightkills is WIFOM and all...are we really to believe Reck's list was totally accurate just because he hit two (and he definitely deserves credit for that) and was then killed?

So let’s ignore the list that is so far 2/2 just because he died and pray throwing buzzwords (WIFOM) at it will help the argument? Yeah, I sense that you have some sort of vested interest in not having Town dig too deeply into that list.

Sorry, I'm just a nobody with no powers.

Didn’t you attack Fate (as I quoted below) for outing his ‘role’ under no pressure? Cognitive Dissonance? Check.

I'm not scum. What is your case on me? And why the hell would you advertise you have investigative powers?

Look, we have Gud part two!

Steph is clearly scum. Moving on …

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Janitors were probably the way to help expand Mass Color Claim scum help btw. Both teams having a Janitor gave the teams extra claim power. I'm thinking a mass color claim on Day 1 would not have been as bad as people made it seem.

Um whut????

1. The main objection to mass-claiming was the unknowns (now confirmed by Dana-MOD) about actual player distribution.
2. You suggest that multiple Janitors were a way for scum to help defeat Mass-claims and thus make Scum even less detectable by that technique.
3. You suggest that things would not be as bad as suggested because Scum have clear counter-measures to the mass claim? Wouldn't that make things at least as bad as suggested yesterday?

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We can almost put this game on cruise-control. the scumz are just throwing themselves at us.

Just like Gud did and you repeatedly suggested you didn’t see? Just checking.

--

Ohhh Steph.

Its probably not a good idea to up and claim scum and all.

Why would you bother to tell scum to not claim so? Why? Why?

Fate I'm seriously you will break my heart if you're gambiting.

Coming off LOTR this makes me chuckle ….

--

Agree that Stepho probably needs to

get active

/get killed/

investigated soon

.

FTFY

But I have this sneaking suspicious Vi was the SK. Just gut.

Then are you disputing Kats’ watch on you? Because Vi visited you per Kats and you didn’t end up all smushed by Orange Power. Add in that Dram likely could only have been the Orange kill (or a Vig kill with some deaths missing) and I’m not leaning towards Vi = Larfleeze.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ah let me type normally for this, as it's important. What you are doing is saying, "Oh you think you're right? I'll bet you $1000 real money if you are" and what can I do? It's just a game. Bringing outside influences or "site-wide meta alliances" is DANGEROUSLY close to breaking the intent of the site. ALSO it is just indicative of your suboptimal play. You can't play naturally enough for me to read you as town, you have to resort to avatar bets? Good lord that's just as bad as Parama.

1. Horrible analogy. I’m not asking you to bet money, which is a precious real-life commodity that I would never expect anyone to waste on a game. I’m asking you to use a site resource that is free as a means of backing your ‘self-confidence’.
2. So making an avatar bet is close to ‘breaking the spirit of the site’? Really? Because if it was why does KMD have a Site Title that celebrates him losing one or more avatar bets?
3. Your little CapsLawkAlliance thing is far worse for the site than any avatar bet. True story.
4. You are criticizing me for playing in a manner that isn’t easily readable? Really? The Irony … it’s over 9000!

I mean seriously, I'm arrogant and all but it is REALLY just self-confidence (a good thing)x1000. Your posts ALWAYS come off as elitist and "fuck you peasants" when you look down at your nose on people. I criticize people's play harshly at times, but it is usually in an almost sarcastic joking matter that doesn't cut to the bone (and if anyone has been cut to the bone by my critcisms, please PM me the post in question. I'd be more than happy to explain the real motivations behind my post at that time and to give you pointers)

Yes, you are a playful little minx who never acts like an asshole. It’s just that everyone else mistakes your motivation.

I don’t expect a response to this from you. I consider this a rejection of the avatar bet mixed with an explosion of whining, and thus the matter is closed. I will not clog the thread any further on the matter.

[MagnaofIllusion]

-I am suspicious of the Tomar Re claim. Tomar Re is DEAD in the Blackest Night storyline. He gets reanimated as a Black Lantern and fights the good guys. Starbuck, please confirm.

I’ll confirm this. Tomra-Re died during the Anti-Monitor’s assault on the Positive Matter Universe in ‘Crisis on Infinite Earths', which far pre-dates Blackest Night.

@MoI/Spyrex-
Cases against both nopoint and Katsuki have merit. Ultimately, Occam's Razor points at Reck's death and Kats non-recruitment as a single effect of Kats being scum. I'm inclined to vote Kats and let the game move on. You two have both soft claimed info that implicates NPIAU. If you're going to share it, assuming it is relevant, please do so.

If you see soft-claiming in my posts that is an incorrect read. My case on NoPoint is solely from observable actions.

Now that Reaper has not clarified whether overkill would be visible or not I think speculation as to Kats being auto-scum is muddled. The death flavour seems to indicate Reck was killed by someone other than Kats. It’s entirely possible that Reck was blocked by a Yellow action and killed by a Red action. There’s enough muddle in the circumstance that I think NoPoint is an overall better choice.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Consider this a placeholder vote on NoPoint -

We already have three dead Green Lanterns. And one proven GL fake-claim.

I'm curious Spyrex - I didn't think it was standard for bus-drivers to target themselves.

[MagnaofIllusion]

And one proven GL fake-claim.

Who?

Umm Kats who claimed Salaak I believe.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Apparently a vig has taken care of scummy Steph and probably dram as well. The other three tonight look like scum kills - now that we know Vi was not yellow like some had assumed.

The first part Andrius has already claimed. I’d like to know about the second part. I don’t recall anyone suggesting that Vi was Yellow scum but the Yellow kill. Can you point out where people suggested he was scum?

--

@Spyrex

– I see your argument that you are leaning towards NoPoint = Town. I’m not ready to jump on-board that just yet since it relies on the following assumptions.

1. That Vi could actually bus-driver himself.
2. That if he could he would choose to bus-drive himself with a likely NK / Ring steal target. This I find the biggest stretch with the number of potential scum players he could have chosen instead.
3. That Katsuki was telling the truth about his Andy watch.
4. That NoPoint’s hide prevents all actions. While this is a valid variation on the regular Hider role the way he’s presented it seems awfully powerful.

A. He can’t be targeted by any ability.
B. He doesn’t die when hiding behind scum.

Having both those rolled into one seems somewhat a stretch. Also, I don’t like the timing of his ‘admission’ that he can’t be targeted since it comes well after it is posited as a means to clear him. See below for that.

All this said I’m willing to set aside NoPoint for today.

Whatever mysterious powers I have I targetted him with N1. I immediately got a result that I thought was going to be damning based on said procedural constraints.

Doesn’t this information, which you know to be true, conflict with the theory that NoPoint can’t be targeted?

--

I want to make my thoughts on NoPoint’s evolving claim clear.

HAA!! You sent me a bullet didn't you Andy. Told ya I was Hida, you can't vig me bro

Note that his immediate response to Andrius saying he sent a ‘cookie’ to NoPoint is this. He doesn’t say “I didn’t get anything, you can’t target me with any abilities” just “You can’t shoot me”.

got nothing from you man. But I'm sure you meant to vig me, didn't you Andy ..
Regardless, I don't get much of teh swap thing but I'll like it because it proves that I'm innocent

Again not the slightest mention that his ‘role’ as Hider made him untargetable.

At

1253

he asks Andy to claim.

At

1256

and

1260

Spyrex brings up the possibility of independent prevention of Andy’s action outside of a Role-block.

Andrius you ducking dumbass. I'm untargettable by any night action if I hide. My role PM specifically states so and I'm trying real hard not to Caps my letters. Way to go, you just revealed part of your role for nothing.

Suddenly he remembers his role-PM that states this. Conveniently after Spyrex has speculated on a possible out.

@NoPoint

– Why not say this immediately instead of trying to discredit Andy as targeting you with a kill?

@NoPoint

– Why didn’t you attack Spyrex for claiming a power result on you yesterday as a liar if you can’t be targeted by anything when hiding?

You are still scum but are getting a pass for today. Enjoy your temporary escape from the noose.

--

Vi bussed with me (from my POV) because he/she knew I was town and attempted to protect me via taking any kills for me?
That's what I thought.

Why would Vi, a PR, choose to take the bullet for you when he could have chosen any number of other scummy suspects to take the hit instead? Makes little sense.

The other option is that he busdrove you to someone else and was directly targeted by scum for a kill. I find that a much more logical thought process. And it makes NoPoint’s claim fall apart.

--

I don't know what sort of results Kdub has on me but whatever it is is wrong. If his evidence is damning the only thing I can think of is that Vi bus drove me with someone else. I don't know what he was expecting to happen to me N1 or how that incriminates me but nothing happened.

So you are stating that Katsuki fabricated his watch on Andy (that saw Vi visit him)?

[MagnaofIllusion]

So MoI makes a case on nopoint, calls him scum AND THEN DOESNT VOTE HIM. I just find that odd. Because that's damning enough for me to jump on the wagon, if not for xvart just sitting here.

Hmm, could that be because you and others have been saying ‘Don’t quicklynch so people can post’????

And it’s not like I already stated I would be voting him once we had concensus that a Quick-lynch had been negated

Oh wait, I did in my first post.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Where/how was it determined that Vi was the yellow kill?

It was not determined as much as speculated. The logic path that got there was as follows -

1. Vi was janitored so she could not be the Red kill.
2. Red would not be killing Dram so that left Reck as the Red kill.
3. Speculating on mirroring Janitors on both scum teams (based on the Ring claim interest from scum-Dram and other factors).
4. Further speculation that Yellow-Janitor would not use a Janitor ability on a player (Vi) that they were not sure was dying.
5. Thus the Vi was likely the Yellow kill.

After that Andrius raised the valid point that Agent Orange might have inherited the Janitor ability of the first PR death. I think Dram makes more sense as a Orange kill as opposed to Yellow but it certainly can't be ruled out.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also, to hell with waiting -

VOTE: NoPoint.

We clearly aren't Quicklynching today.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't want scums to take advantage of that. So I'd say probably but maybe no. Just send me the goodies either way

This makes no sense from a Town perspective. Really.

1. If he is Town he should welcome the chance to be brought into the building alliance. Yet instead he says he probably will Hide and still invites Andy to waste his Night Action on NoPoint.
2. Does anyone else find it credible, at all, that scum would be looking at NoPoint as a kill? With the amount of confirmed / semi-confirmed Town building (5 at this point) I very much doubt scum are going to be aiming to kill from the PoE pool at this juncture.

I'm leaning at this juncture towards NoPoint being Orange who is Night Action immune, as Stove suggested.

--

Magna, in your first post of D2 (post 1131), why do you vote nopoint while saying very little about Katsuki, despite the fact that there was strong evidence against both of them at the time? In fact, I would argue that the evidence against Katsuki (claimed result by confirmed town-Starbuck) was even stronger. I felt that your vote here stands out because the two wagons were both viable at this point, yet you are trying to push nopoint as the lynch over someone who we now know is scum. It may turn out that nopoint is scum as well, but the point still holds as long as he is not yellow.

I voted for NoPoint because I thought (as I continue to do so) he was scum. You can, from a position of hindsight, claim that Katsuki had stronger evidence against him. In hindsight I can’t dispute he was scum. That said –

1. I had a scum-read on NoPoint during Day 1.
2. His claim of not dying despite Hiding behind Vi read to me as an attempt to cover for the unrevealed potential Track result from Spyrex D2.

If as this game progresses you feel the need to string me up in a PoE process (which is clearly where the game is headed in quick fashion) to root out scum do so. I’m not going to stop playing the way I do and stop scum-hunting to play follow the Cop / Failed Recruit / Nebulous Unspecified Result. I know I’m not going to flip Yellow or Red or Orange. So do what needs to be done.

That said I’d like you comment on NoPoint’s claim of Hider and the information I pointed out in 1307.

Also, I’ve looked at you Day 2 ISO. Why did you not press against AGM or any of the other playes who actively argued against Guderain’s lynch Day 1?

--

On D3 MoI completely ignored the guilty on xvart, only asking him to clarify whether he got watched by Katsuki or not.
He was going after NoPoint instead.
If xvart is flipping yellow I think there's a great case on MoI being yellow as well.

1. I don’t sheep. Especially to a nebulous claim (althought I understand the reasons why Kdub is keeping quiet).
2. In light of Xvart’s admission I’d like to highlight this statement as potentially a Yellow Lantern setting up future mislynches based on his inside knowledge. Remember this when the time comes and I flip which will not be Yellow (or Red or Orange).
3. If you honestly think I, as Yellow scum, would spend my time defending my partners as opposed to bussing them into oblivion you aren’t as smart as you think you are.

By the by, on D1 I started the Gud wagon when nobody else wanted to and I asked triple voter Reck to move his votes to Gud when there was a Starbuck wagon (and I think a SensFan wagon) going on, so I'd like to get some non red-scum credit there.

Really? Why, as Town, are you so worried about garnering your ‘cred’ that you make this statement?

--

@xvart

– Thanks for confirming that there is only one Goon per Scum team (or at least on the Yellow team) if you aren’t lying.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Prod received. The last 60 or so hours have sucked. Water in the your basement during Winter is a horrible, horrible thing to have to deal with. I haven’t had any time for Mafia, even my own modded game.

General Catchup

–

So Sens was scum as expected. I’m curious that Jack, based on the Night flavour, seems to be the person responsible for killing Sens. Jack had made a mention of CPR docing Fate earlier. As a VT this makes no sense, so I’m leaning towards the possibility he got passed a “CPR Doc” invention ala Andrius’s Vig shot earlier. Eventually 'Blue Brother' or whoever Andy keeps going on about can clear that point up.

NoPoint is still scum. I also would be happy lynching Dekes (likely Yellow from foreknowledge that xvart was yellow before he even claimed and his continued off play), Tans (pushing so hard that he is confirmed as Green despite another Green claim, plus the claim and Andy’s evidence), or AGM (scum meta of bussing partners makes him a good Red scum candidate).

VOTE: NoPoint

I’m ok with a Full Mass-claim, a Color Mass-claim, or a Color / Name Mass-Claim at this juncture. The game has gotten very small very quick.

On the Black Lanterns

–

If this is a full blown cult then as has already been said everyone is still suspect from the standpoint of being a potential recruit, including already ‘confirmed’ Town. Then again if it is a full-blown cult the death of the Black recruiter should either revert the recruits or kill them all off.

A cult mechanic? Really? Support from (several) flavor specialists is greatly appreciated. Is it possible that people automatically convert to the Black Lantern section based on their role or is it more likely that this is the work of a recruiting mechanism?

The Black Lanterns from the Comics are all comprised of people resurrected from the Dead or those who have returned to life from death. Seeing as Fate’s role character was dead during Blackest Night and flipped regular Green Lantern I doubt we are going to get far examining role characters on this front. AFAIK Fatality (Toog) was still alive all of Blackest Night.

Specific Responses

–

Magna, did anything happen to you last night? Just say yes or no.

Nope, I have had no Mod communication indicating anything of the sort.

--

I, personally, am almost positive of an MoI-yellow flip. His actions around driving the counter wagon against xvart yesterday were almost blatant. I'd shit a large brick if he were to flip town.

Well AGar I hope you own a stool softener so that passing that brick isn’t too painful.

But let me expound on why your counter-wagon argument is terribly flawed. The sequence of events.

1. Day 2 I begin pressing for NoPoint to hang as scum based on his absolutely failed claim, Spyrex’s claim and scummy Day-play. This Day Starbuck identifies Kats as scum. I chose to follow the NoPoint path as opposed voting Kats.
2. Kats is lynched and flips Yellow Mafia.
3. Day 3 begins and I continue pushing for NoPoint scum based on prior reasoning and his whole “Andrius tried to Vig me not anything else … whoops I can’t be targeted LOLOL” play Day 3. Kdub identifies xvart as scum. I maintain my vote on NoPoint despite pressure regarding not voting for now known Yellow Lantern Katsuki.
4. Xvart outs himself as Yellow scum and flips.

If you are saying this chain of events is indicative of myself being Yellow scum then I don’t know what to say other than you think I’m much stupider than I actually am.

--

SOMEHOW the Serial Killer getting a "Hider" claim is just wrong. BUUUT I'm not throwing it out.

And yet it doesn’t occur to you that NoPoint got some other role to claim and invented the Hider claim in an attempt to ‘explain’ Spyrex’s then unexplained role results?

You're lucky there's still one person left alive from Succession Mafia.

Yes we are. Because turning around the game to a Town victory with multiple cults running around is ….

Nevermind.

I'm very convinced that MoI and AGM would both have submitted scum colors.

So do you think I’m Orange? Because that’s the only scum color you can realistically claim you are convinced I submitted.

So. People who've posted since D4 broke:
nopoint

I checked this. As of post 1433 NoPoint had NOT posted Day 4. If NoPoint flips not Orange scum of any sort (especially Black) I’m going to say Andrius working so hard to ‘clear’ yesterday and subtlely today. him is a link for future review.

--

Sodam Yat - Odd night vig, and to answer your next question Dramonic and Toog (oops)

So you are claiming the Dramonic kill. Noted.

You pushing this lynch quite hard Andy, especially since noone has even CC'd me as Green.

Does anyone have Tans = Scum meta that shows he doesn’t pay attention to the thread? Because somehow NoPoint’s claim has escaped him.

--

What makes you think that the Black Lantern faction can't recruit scum?

Because normal cults can’t. Should this be +1000 Black Lantern points for you since it seems to indicate you didn’t even consider how a cult normally works (ala inside information)?

Plus, I don't understand why a Hal Jordan claim needs death. If anything, I'd believe Hal Jordan would b e the only sure bet of being in the game on the town side. And with three flipped green Lanterns, I think, all claimed Green Lanterns but Hal Jordan are scum now.

1. So the Mods would never reserve a popular character as a fake-claim? Derp.
2. The two green claims we have are John Stewart (Hider) and Sodom Yat (Odd Night Vig). Are they both scum then?

--

Magna posts all walls, which makes reading him difficult (not because he is difficult to read in and of himself, but because I don't feel like scraping through the walls).

I lulzed since you’ve yet to read me successfully in any of the completed games we have in common.

Hmmmmm, you know, the more I think about it, the more I agree Magna is a good place to start for today's witch hunt. 1) he probably picked scum / THIRD PARTY ESPECIALLY 2) his play has been off today and 3) he hasn't been nightkilled yet and he NORMALLY is. Yes I went there Magna. I'll go there every time.

I’ll respond in a proper manner.

I think AGM is a good place to start for today’s witch hunt. 1) he probably picked scum / THIRD PARTY ESPECIALLY 2) his play has been off every day phase, and 3) he has a self-proclaimed meta of heavily bussing his partners. Sensfan flipping scum after so long with AGM ‘pushing’ him means AGM is likely the last Red Scum.

--

Andy wtf!? I didn't hide and you betrayed my trust xD? Also, if I'm orange then who's green Genius?

Perhaps someone who hasn’t claimed?

Edit: xD I already stated that my flavor stated that I can drive my bulldozer to get out of places to fight another day. Isn't that will power?? As if flavor should be scrutinized anyways?

That’s horrible flavor for a Hider. What is stealthy exactly about a Bulldozer? I could see Commuter with that flavor but Hider?

I also think your claim of Hider doesn’t make sense from a set-up point of view for unshared reasons.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Preview Edit - God damn ninjas everywhere!

No, we're color claiming.
I thought we decided on that.

Addenum: Color claiming will be supplemented by a claim of what colors you submitted. Thanks.

So just Color and originally suggested colors but no name?

Just want to be clear before I start it off.

Ok.
Everyone should probably claim who they'd rather see lynched today.
Namely one of tanstalas and nopoint.
I'm leaning nopoint.

Well I’ve already voted for NoPoint so you have my suggestion.

--

Oh, the mighty MoI. Reverting to OMGUS. Guess, that's why you haven't killed me yet, because you thought you could actually frame me because I caught you.

Look, it’s OMGUS use. Is that scummy Dekes? Plesae tell me why I should not be able to suspect you based on your potential slip showing you knew xvart was Yellow before he claimed / flipped.

Then you better shouldn't have based your case on a blatant lie(1.) and some awfully vague statement(2.) which you seem to have stolen right out of AGM's read on you.

It's not a blatant lie, at least from my POV. I know I’m not Yellow so your push to incriminate me as such even before xvart was revealed he was also Yellow could well be a case of your inside information accidently showing.

I note the total dismissive language you attempt to use here. Given I’ve just listed you as a suspect but continue to push scum NoPoint tells me your reaction here is suspect.

So, ignorance of a rather rare mechanic I've never encountered makes me scum. Even better, I'm now black, although I was 100% yellow earlier in this post. You're making this too easy.
The limited flavor knowledge I have and dana's added intro post on D3 made me believe that Black Lanterns are working against every other Lantern section so I didn't see any reason why they wouldn't be able to recruit scum.

1. Cults are not a ‘rare’ mechanic.
2. Again with the overly touchy reaction. I didn’t call you Black Lantern. I was humorously pointing out how you’ve been throwing “Black Lantern Points” at any number of people for reasons that don’t make sense given standard cult mechancis. It’s not a Town thought process to attack someone for something related to a potential cult when you now are saying you aren’t familiar with the mechanics.
3. Given how Fate’s character has been DEAD since Crisis on Infinite Earths (sorry dana and Reaper … I’m guessing you meant Tomar Tu) relying on flavor as the sole basis for your suspicions is just bad.

2. You think both are scum. What was the purpose of that question then?

Clearly trying to get you to be clear on whether you thought both were scum given you kept going on and on about Hal Jordan.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I think the color claim has been established enough that I’ll get things rolling.

Blue Lantern Corp

. Initial choices Green and Blue. Shocker I know. I just wanted to be Hal Fucking Jordan or your character Andrius (yes, I hated you a little when I saw your crumb). But I did get the coolest Blue Lantern (even if he's not known for it) EVER so that is something.

Popcorn to AGM. Your fake-color claim please.

--

I just wanted to mention, after reading Kast’s last post, that on the off chance NoPoint isn’t Agent Orange / Larfleeze that Kast is my number 2 with a bullet for that role. Read his ISO, on a gut level it says potential SK to me.

--

Guess, that's why you haven't killed me yet, because you thought you could actually frame me because I caught you.

I just wanted to bring this little bit of Dekes and my earlier exchange into the spotlight to highlight the rhetoric that surrounds his arguments.

He’s guessing he hasn’t been Nightkilled (by me, but that’s beside the point) because he could be ‘framed’. Because if he was confirmed (or as near as you get) town like Stove or Andrius or a player with a dangerous reputation to scum (Kdub or Kast) he would have been left alive to be ‘framed’. This statement is pointless rhetoric on the level of NoPoint’s ‘I have to hide as I’m a total NK target’.

Because your play on D3 was strinkingly similar to you play on D2. Can't be denied and seeing I wasn't the only one who caught it very much speaks for itself.

For lack of a better phrase … so what? I pushed for my scum candidate based on my judgement rather than playing follow the Cop / Insert Nebulous PR here. Not hard to see. You’ve yet to explain, in a manner that shows any level of connection to me personally, how I would be defending a partner not once but two Days running. Especially when one partner would be specifically outing themselves in an effort to aid their cause. Because I can’t think you can, with any amount of honesty, say that Xvart’s master plan to improve Yellow’s chances by outing himself would make any sense if I WAS HIS OBV PARTNER DEFENDING HIM VIA PUSHING NOPOINT EVEN AFTER HE CLAIMED SCUM.

But COMPLETELY ignoring the guilties on Katsuki while making a lot of effort proving nipau's claim wrong and the former ones both flipping yellow? No way you're not yellow.

Ignoring what guilty? The one that was based on Reck dying not due to a NK but because he recruited scum when we were not missing a kill per what we knew? I’d be willing to wager (gasp, don’t tell the Easily Outraged!) that he died from another source and the recruitment was just icing on the cake. Once the game is over and Night actions are revealed we can see if I’m right.

No way I’m not Yellow? Luzl. Guarantee I’m not Yellow.

No way you’re not an Idiot.

--

I cannot be lynched due to me being a Daxamite and thus invulnerable when the sun is out. If you attempt to lynch me it will result in a no-lynch and we will proceed to night.

You forget that we use lead lined rope. /joke off I couldn’t resist.

So let me get this straight … you are a Lynch-Immune Odd Night Vig? Having played in dana’s last Super-hero based game (where I was Longshot, the Bulletproof Unblockable Doc who always scanned Innocent … and I’m not kidding about that) I’m not going to rule out anything immediately. Two comments –

1. Why do you think Mods, in a game with SO many scum kills, would handicap Town in such a manner by making your Unlynchability such a handicap when it is triggered?
2. Why did you state the following, which I bolded, in your previous post right before this?

Dunno, something to keep in mind for if

I get lynched when I flip town

you can look back and see and ask why Andy was pushing my lynch so hard, especially his conflicting arguments of not speculating on setup then saying if it is 4:4:4:4:4:4:1 back to saying I am scum again when I am the only (4th) claimed Green without any CC

Pending that response I have one other observation -

dude, I asked if anyone minded if I hammered, many people posted and didn't say to wait, the only one who did was Xvart

I just wanted to hammer, I don't think I have ever gotten to hammer before, and I wanted my name listed in the flavor

1. Asking permission to hammer is scumtastic. It’s an advanced attempt to disavow responsibility.
2. Not ever having hammered before is among the dumbest reasons to hammer. Wanting your name listed in the Night Flavor is either childish, scummy, or both.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna, I might prod a bit more into your role later on; I'd like to try something. I've been hinting at clearing the entire Blue Corps for awhile now, and I definitely think it is something we can achieve today. Blue Brother (unless he's you, of course) knows what I'm talking about.

Kast has definitely been a low-key player. Haven't really a definite scum/town read on him tbh.

Sshhh, MoI, its ok. We know tans is likely scum so don't waste too much of your time on him.

1. Ok.

2. Well take a look, pending NoPoint actually flipping SK.

3. Shhh Andy. I want Tans to answer for a reason. Don't harsh my groove.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm not sure I understand this, actually. "color code for blue"?

you playing dumb? You even hinted that the blue you posted was not the real blue color but the person to say they were blue could use the real color blue.

In MoI's post he used 0000FF as the color code, assuming in your PM where it told you your color it was color coded blue, if 0000FF is the color code for blue in your PM then he should be confirmed to you.

I just pulled up the Font Color choice and picked the Blue I always used. That wasn't a coded signal on my part. Now if I wanted to perfectly duplicate the color palate I saw it would have written

Blue Lantern Corps

instead of

Blue Lantern Corps

[MagnaofIllusion]

I am le Violet.

Popcorn to tanstalas. If you already claimed then repost it and pick somebody else.

I <3 you to AGM. Really!

Especially when you claim Violet which has had Four [ Count Them ] Mod confirmed flips of Violet Lanterns (and god damn it they should be the Star Saphire Corps ) so far in the game. So either the game began with more than 4 Violet Lanterns or your fake claim puts you in a bad spot. I will grant you that the Violet Corps, based on source material, are the second most likely to have more than 4 (behind the Green Lantern Corps, of course). Which is why I want to see how the rest of the claims fall out before elevating you above others on my lynch chart.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Except the fact that MoI is confirmed blue now, blows your theory out of the water doesn't it? Or are you going to say he randomly guessed that 2043FF was the correct color code for blue?

Why in the hell are you pushing so hard for me to be confirmed again? The only person we have that is even close to confirmed in my eyes is The Stove, who has a Cop innocent on him (meaning he could only be scum if he’s Investigation Immune). Buddying up to me sets my scum-dar ringing.

I'm tempted to move my vote to you after seeing this.

--

My color actually immediately gives away my character name and the color I become to both MoI and KK (both probable scum), so I might as well share those both:

Umm you could have just given your Color options. I don’t see why claiming Blue that can go Green automatically means Ganthet. Because I think Hal Jordan would be a better fit for that transition, IMO. He was briefly brought into the Blue Corps when facing Atrocious before returning to the Green Lantern Corps.

Gathet makes more flavor sense going Green to Blue, but source flavor isn’t rock solid so I think the claim is possible.

So I’m scum for suspecting you? Is that what I should take from your vague statement above?

Here’s why I think you certainly could be Orange. In my direct experience Town-Kast has three defining characteristics.

1. Verbose posting. That’s present here.
2. A general focus and fascination with game mechanics. That’s also present.
3. A high level of tenacity in scum-hunting. This is what I think is missing this game.

In Brave and Beautiful you went full bore after me based on unknown play mechanics and role assumptions (which were incorrect, BTW) like a pit bull. You ignored obv-scum Furc and helped scum lynch me.

In this game on the other hand you completely lack any sort of aggressive scum-hunting. I see many suggestions and speculation but no focused attacks. Which would be in-line with someone not wanting to draw Nightkills, which are prevelant in this game.

--

What bastardized flavor has there been? I don't know the series, so it could provide an interesting point of focus here.

Well for starters, as I have mentioned repeatedly, Tomar Re has been DEAD since Crisis on Infinite Earths which chronologically predates Blackest Night in continuity (and in RL by about 20 years). He does appear as a Black Lantern in Blackest Night.

I’m not seeing any other flips that are off (William Hand does end Blackest Night as a member / prisoner of the Indigo Tribe).

--

ZOMG.

There is no solid evidence whatsoever that I'm the SK and there is clear-cut evidence that Tans is lying in his Green claim and you guys are all BREADCRUMBING "leaning towards nopoint"

. I hate orange and I'd never pick that color. If we mislynch a town today then it doesn't matter whether there is one less kill or not at night.

Right now there's no conclusive evidence as to I am scum

whereas there is solid evidence that Tans is Yellow scum with MOI. Their tactic is blatant, kill Spyrex who's the only one sane enough not to speculate on favor shit but rather speculate based on his night results and

now they start soft pushing my lynch.

I can't believe people are fallin for this fuktard strategy. Fine, bet everything on flavor. It's either me or Tans because both of us claimed Green

Emphasis added.

1. Insert link to Flail.com here.
2. Why repeatedly say there is ‘no solid evidence’ that you are scum? Mafia isn’t a game of CSI. Your play has been scummy. Your claim I’ve repeatedly shown is flawed on many levels. You never even presented the breadcrumbs you claimed to have laid when requested to do so.
3. How exactly am I soft pushing your lynch? I’ve been actively calling for your head for three days running.
4. Continuing to minimize that the only reason people suspect you is flavour is just wrong. It's not just your claim (which is horrible).

No Tans, it could have very well been from his fakeclaim. He's trying too hard to prove himself and he only does so as scum.

Bullshit. We’ve never played in a game together that I can remember where I was scum. Show me exactly where I have a demonstrated history of “trying too hard to prove himself”. Otherwise this is just empty rhetorical mudslinging.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Kage - You forgot to include your initial color choices.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Kage

– Kast makes a very valid point below …

These don't really match. Seems unlikely that xvart would lie about color picks while claiming scum.

It is always important to take the words of a confessed scum with a grain of salt but xvart being proven correct about Sensfan says that the portion of his statement regarding players ending up with Yellow who didn’t choose it is probably truthful.

Your thoughts?

--

I'm pretty sure your buddy doesn't appreciate that you're defending/tying yourself to him. Even more so since he's already under scrutiny.

This is funny. I’ve already explained why the logic of me pushing against Yellow buddies on two successive days is stupid (regardless of how often you question it). Now you stated that my theoretical fourth buddy is going out of his way to tie himself to me in thread. That’s just plain stupid and for you to continue to push a scum-team that actively outs themselves easily in thread reinforces my belief that you aren’t actively scum-hunting.

--You've been the primary pusher of both counter wagons for the flipped Yellow-Scum.
--Both caught Yellow-Scum have turned out to be PRs, yet you act as if there's no possible motivation for Yellow-scum to try and save his buddies.

You’ve yet to explain why I would be so blatant about actively pushing for NoPoint to be lynched in a way that makes any sense from a scum perspective. Especially in light of the fact that xvart claiming in thread. It make ZERO sense for me, as xvart’s partner, to push hard against his lynch when he clearly planned to out himself. Your claims about ‘saving’ Power Roles make little sense when xvart then gives himself up.

In Brave and Beautiful, I acted based on info provided by my role as well as info claimed by others. There was one specific role interaction that led me to doubt you, and it turned out to be a red herring that only happened in the event of 3+ PRs interacting with each other in a very specific way (Samus normally copies death flavor; Cortana's death flavor is always generic 'destroyed').

I’ll be benevolent and assume you actually believe this is the extent of your ‘mechanics’ zeal from B&B. I’m not going to argue about it but will only say you are leaving out large swaths of your other incorrect assumptions made regarding role possibilites and mechanics during that game.

This isn't a hard point, but it did seem like your initial post was claiming Orange as first pick. It seems uncharacteristic of you to not correct that if it was a misunderstanding.

Can you explain what I would gain by correcting Toog? I’d like to understand what scum-hunting motivation I would have to correct him and say “No, I didn’t choose Orange as my first color” at that juncture without directly giving up my color choices prematurely.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Andy if you really want that to properly reflect claims you want to add that

Tans claimed Sodam Yat
Kast claimed Ganthet
NoPoint claimed John Stewart

[MagnaofIllusion]

What the heck -

UNVOTE: NoPoint

VOTE: Stephoscope

[MagnaofIllusion]

Since Magna has reading comprehension issues today...

VOTE: Vote: Starbuck

Yes, because Stephoscope hasn't been dead since N2 also

And it's not like KK didn't cover that already anyway. Thanks for being 'useful' tans.

[MagnaofIllusion]

UNVOTE: Stephoscope

VOTE: NoPoint

I’m going to further elaborate on why I think NoPoint’s claim is bad and he is scum other than the copious other things arlready said.

1. Site Meta – Hider is the go to fake-claim for scum here on MS. In games I have played where a Hider has been claimed not a single one has been an actual Hider, IIRC. Espeonage claimed Hider as scum in Wolframhart’s Mini Normal. I claimed Hider in /invitational 8. I’ve read many other games with Hider claims that ended up being fake ( of the top of my head I remember Incognitio ran a no-night game around the same time as Wolframhart where with a fake hider claim). The only time I actually recall a Hider being a Hider is in Castlevania Mafia which I co-modded with Kdub.

2. My role makes me think very much that a Hider doesn’t fit into the Town PR structure.

NoPoint’s failure to ONCE AGAIN point out his breadcrumbs, his blatant buddying (which he does as scum … see Mini 1040 from kunkstar for evidence of that), or his failure to elaborate on his empty suggestions is noted.

--

I was referring to the point Andy asked us to vote a PR and you voted a VT (he was a VT right - on phone and slow to check)

Anyhow you only failed at reading today, its a daily thing for me

Yeah, I did totally fail to see the PR part of the request. Self-face palm.

--

@Andy

– I’m fine with your plan as it stands.

Also, with a claim like Hal Jordan, KageLord is either legit. HJ or Siniestro.

QFT.

I'm debating whether its better to attempt to lynch the SK or go after the Black Recruiter. :/ Touch choice imo.

Just curious as to why the Red Mafia (aks AGM) isn’t included on this list? Lynching them would be functionally equivalent to lynching the SK at this point.

--

Well, if Toog was any indication, I fear, your goals tomorrow (game day) might differ from your goals today.

So why do you only worry about his goals tomorrow? Andy claimed [REDACTED], Blue Lantern in one of his first posts and got confirmed in some manner early. If there is a full blown Black cult running around wouldn’t you think he would be a prime recruit earlier rather than later?

--

Your refusal to admit any possible motivation for scum to try protecting their buddies is what's stupid. The obvious motive for trying to save your buddies is because it directly contributes to your chances of winning by having your team survive (more votes, more powers, more "hitpoints", etc.). Other potential motives could include being GF trying to draw a cop, being a less valuable PR/Vanilla who would be less harmful for your team to lose, setting up for the "defending scum-buddies is too scummy to be scum" crap-logic defense that you're using now, or trying to distract & gain townpoints by focusing on a competing scum-lynch (NPIAU) (not an exhaustive list).

I don’t see the any possible motivation to defend Yellow Scum-buddies because I am not Yellow scum. You don't know that of course but I can't entertain a notion I know is incorrect. This whole block is a cornucopia of speculation. Your POV here automatically dismisses the possibility that I am Town trying to hunt my top scum suspect. Your are simply filtering events through your personal bias.

Your motive obviously was not trying to reveal yourself as scum. Claiming that people are pushing that ridiculous argument just evades the actual point. Your defense further assumes that both Yellow lynches were forgone conclusions at the time you tried to divert them.

However, MoI-scum trying to save his buddies would obviously think there was a chance to save his buddies and thus no suspicion would come from that.

MoI-scum also wouldn't know that xvart was about to claim scum in thread,

and despite your claim to the contrary, you didn't actually argue against xvart's lynch after he claimed.

Bold added for emphasis to two sections …

First bolded - You can say this but actively pushing alternate lynches to two Yellow scum in a row would be completely stupid as a Yellow Mafia member. Sorry, it just is. We disagree and no amount of arguing is going to change that.

Second bolded – How exactly do you know that MoI-scum wouldn’t have known what xvart was planning? Do you know scum don’t have Daytalk? You don’t think xvart, who had been labelled scum by Kdub the previous Day wouldn’t discuss the possibilities with his partners? I’m curious how you come to this absolute conclusion without tons of information that Town would lack.

As far as Tans defending his buddy; Tans is already caught and your lynch is pretty likely after Tans flips (that would make this the third and only successful time you've pushed for NPIAU instead of a caught Yellow-scum). He doesn't exactly have much to lose if he hurts you; but if he can get his buddy *confirmed* as town, then that's a no-brainer move.

So you are saying that it would be possible at all for Tans to attempt to defend someone in thread and then flip Yellow and it would be credible at all that he could clear said person? That’s moronic.

If anything it would be much more likely Tans would work hard to incriminate someone not on his team, especially one who others have already labelled likely Yellow.

The same motivation that makes you correct when people publicly voice thoughts that you softclaimed anything else.
The clause about prematurely giving up your color choices doesn't seem at all relevant to this point. From context, your "first choice" was something you thought would be obvious to others; your implication that correcting Toog would require some strange and/or risky thought process is inconsistent with "prematurely" softclaiming your first choice.

So what is this nebulous motivation you say? What scum-hunting would come out of correcting him? Give me something actually specific.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Regarding the Blue Mass Claim

I am not an Operative.
I also do not have an ‘active’ Power.

I will elaborate as necessary.

--

I really don’t like the following I have seen from Tans regarding his wagon–

If you are so sure I am scum then put a vote on me.

It think this is pretty clear. No provisos regarding him being a certain color.

If you think I am yellow and you are TOWN and are saying you should vote for me you need to re-evaluate. Yellow is NOT the threat. Red, SK or Recruiter is the threat. If we do not hit one of those 3 today I think we may be screwed.

Seriously, you vote for me, when asked what color you think I will flip you said you don't care what color... Gotta ask you, are you fucking retarded? Did you even read my post? If you think I am yellow you should not be voting me. RED, ORANGE, BLACK. That is what you should be concentrating on.

So he begged / challenged players who suspected him to vote for him. When one did suddenly he’s attacking that as a bad choice based on color speculation.

Tans

- Why badger players who suspect you to vote for you and immediately call those votes into question as poorly reasoned? Did you think that somehow that would serve some sort of scum-hunting purpose?

[MagnaofIllusion]

predit: Hey MoI. You

do

know that if you claim Immune to Yellow actions we won't like that, yes?

No my power is not some odd immunity. It's pretty predictable, especially if you were paying close attention (yes, i haz the power to breadcrumb also Andy. I just chosse not to loaf / bomb like yourself ). I have no issue full-claiming if necessary at this point.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You tell me. You're the one who is exhibiting the behavior. Also, you're begging the question by assuming your motivation necessarily results in some kind of scum-hunting.

This is why talking with you is like talking to a fucking brick wall.

I saw no scum-hunting motivation in correcting Toog on a point that IMO was completely unrelated to gameplay.

You act as if there would be one.

Thus I keep asking your to provide it.

We both know you are fully capable of evaluating the possibility of MoI-scum from a non-MoI townsperson's PoV. From that PoV, there are obvious scum motivations for your behavior. Agreed that this is not a 100% guarantee that you are scum; it is a potential scum tell. There is a possibility that you are town stubbornly pushing NPIAU-scum; despite your objection, nobody has claimed this is not a possibility.

There is no point in me evaluating why I might be scum (and in this discussion Yellow ) when I know it not to be the case. Sorry, that’s a pointless waste of time. I know how I play and to indicate that it makes any sense AT ALL for me to push against teammate lynches two days in a row flies in the face of ANY meta evidence you could possibly find.

Are you admitting AGM isn't part of your Yellow Mafia?

Read the fucking thread. I called AGM red-scum based on his self-professed meta as scum to bus partners who are under duress. So all you are doing here is going out of your way to take a pot shot. Congrats on that ...

Agreed that this would be more ideal play for caught Yellow-scum. However, it's also plausible that caught Yellow-scum would latch on to a potential chance to *clear* their buddy, particularly if that buddy was already almost caught.

No, it’s not plausible at all. You are

ONCE AGAIN

stretching to reach a conclusion that fits your pre-determined notions.

Once I die or the game ends and I’m not Yellow Scum I’m going to quite properly call your play, if you are Town, horrible.

[MagnaofIllusion]

As far as game relevance; there's pretty clear relevance when you imply something in a D1 soft claim, but claim something completely different on D4 under pressure.

What in the hell are you talking about? What D1 soft-claim?

Are you talking about where I said I didn’t get my first choice but that’s to be expected because it so popular?

In the case I was referencing Green since Blackest Night spawns from the Green Lantern Corps series and Green Lantern is by far the best known of all colors, especially to non-comic book people.

There is a point to evaluating it. You state that there is no motivation for MoI-scum to take those actions. That statement requires evaluating the situation from both possibilities (MoI-scum and MoI-town). You're blowing a lot of steam but there's no logic behind it.

Dear god. You just want to argue at this point. If you can point to any instance of MoI-scum ever defending his partners in an active manner please do so. Otherwise you are just trying to shoe-horn some generic argument about how scum play into reasons why I am scum.

Or you slipped and admitted he's not your scum-buddy. Besides, AGM was against the Guderian lynch and never commented on Dramonic. How does either of those fit with bussing a buddy under duress?

Dram was never under pressure (via votes) so I don’t see how you can argue that AGM never commenting on him in any way goes counter to my argument. As for Guderian for let’s examine –

1. Sens basically claimed scum in the thread.
2. You’ve just spent lots of time arguing how scum have motivation to push a counter lynch to prevent a more powerful role from dying.
3. Guderian was an Investigation Immune Janitor. Sens was a Bomb.

Your own arguments supply every reason why AGM is a very logical Red.

But once again this is just another case of you applying your conclusions and arguing against what I am saying since I’m scum. Even when your arguments contradict other arguments you made earlier.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Exactly. Which implies AGM is scum.
And we have 2 scum in [nopoint, tanstalas, KageLord].

This also means that Siniestro is a Goon.

Which is odd, but Ninja and Watcher are both pretty good.

Um you lost me on the bolded portion, oh Holy Stroller. How did you get to that particular conclusion?

--

MoI resorting to post game threats again...yuck.

I’m sorry if I offend your delicate sensabilities …

And Almaster has a point. You still haven't delivered Black Lantern evidence. Who out of the remaining people falls into that category? One of the greens?

The presence of a Black cult leader throws the 4s/1 proportion out the window. What ‘evidence’ were you expecting from Andrius exactly?

But I do agree that I wish this color discussion will come to an end soon and we go back to regular scumhunting. Andy, question from last page still stands.

Nothing has been stopping you from doing ‘regular’ scum-hunting while the Color claim process was going on.

--

Guys, I'm not scum. Take your heads out of the sand - do you seriously think the mod would have made the setup THIS stupidly easy to crack? Lynches are LIMITED. Wasting one on dumb setup spec when there are people who are ACTUALLY scummy running around is silly and we will lose the game for it.

Glad to see you’ve re-engaged the game now that you are under a little heat.

[MagnaofIllusion]

And I'm talking about the evidence Andy was quite sure to get when I asked him back then if the color claim was really necessary today. Without getting closer to the Black cult leader we could've easily lynched one out of tans or nipau and waited with the color claim until tomorrow.

Did you read Succession Mafia that Andy has been referring to? As an outsider who read the game I think Andy is perhaps overselling his cult finding prowess based on that game (nothing personal Andy).

That said the Color claim also served more purposes than just hunting the Black recruiter. Orange and Red need to be able to shoot Yellow to have a chance (and all three also should have an eye towards Black) and this color claim will give them a much better target range. And it doesn’t really harm Town as the confirmed Townies were already out there.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I notice NoPoint makes another appearance to throw doubt on Kast, who he just earlier today was buddying up to when Kast attacked me. And do nothing else.

Obv-scum is obv.

At this point I’d really like a NoPoint lynch as I think he is Larfleeze the Night Action Immune Serial Killer.

I’d also support a Tans, AGM or Kast lynch today.

--

MoI, you mind claiming now?

Not at all.

I’m The Flash (specifically Barry Allen, but that comes from my knowledge and not the role PM), the Fastest Man Alive. I was recruited into the Blue Corps during the pivotal end of Blackest Night in an attempt to bolster the Emotional Spectrum Corps because I symbolize Hope for many of the DC Heros.

So I obviously got the coolest Blue Lantern ever because The Flash is quite awesome and Barry Allen is the Greatest … Flash … Ever. /off Comic Book Guy.

I did not claim my power based on you statement at the top of 1712 where you discussed clarifying my power later. If you want a full claim I’ll do so.

--

Am I the only one not buying that Kast had a color change ability and JOAT? Srsly.

Obviously not since he had already started amassing votes after his claim. My question to you is –

1. If you don’t believe him what does that mean. Do you think he’s Black? Orange? Red? Yellow?

--

You've got to be joking. How much more obvious a protection target can you get than a confirmed mason and several people who had softclaimed investigative roles?

You are barking up the wrong tree here Kdub. Kast approaches the game from the standpoint that he knows better than anyone else how all roles should be handled. In B&B Mafia he repeated argued that the choices I made as a role-thief indicated I was scum because he knew the best way to use that sort of ability as Town. He’s going to argue till he’s blue in the face (get it … it’s a color based pun) that his decision was the best choice.

--

Regarding Kast’s claim and his Night action dump

–

On the face of it , flavor wise only anyway, Kast’s claim isn’t completely absurd given that Ganthet is a Guardian of the Universe and thus one of the most powerful beings in existence. I could certainly see a buffed, two stage JOAT being in line with Ganthet. On the other side of the coin it is also a plausible fake-claim for Larfleeze, Nekron or Scar (who are the only logical remaining Black Recruiter suspects). Null over all.

Regarding his Night Choices I find them suspect in several ways –

1. They are all un-confirmable at this stage, and only the Black Cop / Immunization could be proven wrong down the line.
2. Choosing not to Doc confirmed Town Starbuck N2 or likely confirmed PRs and instead track xvart is suspect.
3. Choosing to throw away a Doc shot based on a nebulous Mod PM with he did not know the results when changing from Blue to Green also is suspect.

Finally, unrelated to the night choices the seeming contradiction in his Black Recruitor / No Black Recruitor as pointed out by Dekes and KK is also telling.

Probably no Black Recruiter specifically (or actually Plum may be directing from beyond the grave...but I doubt anyone will believe that).

So you think the Black Lantern angle is either handled by Plum from beyond the grave or is a non-player, Mod driven mechanic?

I think the Plum angle is very unlikely since we’ve proven not to be able to vote actively for Plum. I don’t see the Mod including a player that was ‘dead’ but still active in the game that could not be dealt with directly by Town. Yes, I did see your 1-shot resurrector angle argument. Including a one-shot ability that could easily be wasted by mis-use or the death of the holder before Plum as the only method for 'dealing' with the dead Black Recruitor is very implausible.

And I don’t see a Mod-directed Black Lantern mechanic as anything other than Bastard Modding which was not indicated in any way during sign-ups or the start of the game. If it is the case mark me as officially pissed at the Mods.

@Kast

– I don’t recall Ganthet having any special powers to buffer people against the influence of Black Lantern rings in the source material. Is this correct in your flavor knowledge?

Don't buy this at all. That's like claiming you're Yoshi or something in a Super Mario Bros 3 Theme Game.

Why wouldn’t you buy it when we already have evidence that one character (Tomar Re) alive and kicking in the game who was dead two decades before Blackest Night. At this stage I think you are tying your thought processes to closely to what ‘must be’ based on the flavour (again). Looking to fill out the Indigo Corps and having to look outside the strict Blackest Night comics to other Green Lantern material isn't unreasonable.

Honestly I couldn’t say for sure if all the Indigos or Violet secondard characters actually made appearances in the Blackest Night series itself.

--

1) Ironic seeing you are the one who just finished dropping off the game and were a high pick for scum. Glad to see you've stopped lurking now that the heat is off you.

Lulz. I didn’t post over a 48 period (Saturday and Sunday) due to out-of-game circumstances (my basement flooding, which I mentioned immediately Monday in my first post). Did you look at all my other active games before you try to insinuate I was lurking out pressure? No, because you would have seen I didn’t post in any of them, INCLUDING MY GAME I AM RUNNING, in that period. Furthermore looking at my post history shows a compete gap between Friday Jan 21 and Monday Jan 24. So I didn’t even post in non-game threads during that period.

Scummy attempt to turn active lurking accusation aimed at you around at your accuser noted. Also noted that your defense in no way tried to argue against the fact that you’ve provided almost no content game-wise other than –

1. Bussing your partner Sensfan.
2. Stating you would wait for the ‘big boys’ to do their thing.

2) There is nothing TO engage because everything is A) speculation which I know to be false and B) Andy using MAGIC POWERZ which I don't know how to work.

Bullshit. Town doesn’t have a reason to stop scum-hunting regardless if others are ‘confirmed’. Scum, however, has every reason to stay out of the way as long as they are not in the line of fire of said ‘confirmed’ players. Which is exactly what you were doing until your name as obv-Red suddenly started popping up as a potential lynch candidate.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Kdub

– Now that we’ve formalized that you are the only Blue Lantern who could be handing out inventions (as Andy claimed with his Arisa shot) will you confirm or deny that you provided Jack with an invention that would explain his and Sensfan’s deaths on Night 3?

--

What happened to 2.?

Number 2 was answered in post 1738 (regarding whether PZ agreed with AGar) and thus was edited out when I saw that post on preview.

--

I don't see it as any worse than including a secret cult recruitment into a semi-open game.

So you don’t see the difference between –

1. A mod directed mechanic that ostensibly penalizes the Town (by segregating the Town into two faction which cannot win together) but does not affect Scum and that neither Town nor Scum has any significant way to deal with.

and

2. A cult in a game that was not expressly indicated at game’s start but is player driven and thus can be dealt with in any number of ways (lynching, Cops / Trackers / other Information roles, kills).

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna: Oh. When I asked you to claim I was thinking fullclaim. I figured you were The Flash (and I was rather jealous of that fact, whereas I got some guy I didn't know lol).

Ok, full claim incoming.

I am The Flash (Bulletproof), member of the Blue Corps.

Paraphrased Flavor

– I’m the fastest man alive, so fast that no-one is able to get near me.

Breadcrumb from my first post –

F

irst let me say Greetings to all those I’ve Modded or played with and offer a warm Hello to those I don’t.

L

ooking at the player list the vast majority fall into the former category.

A

nswering AGM’s questions –

1.

S

econd choice.

H

ardly a surprise given how popular my first choice was.
2.

B

y stating I would be Vigging I surmise the question assumes I am of Town alignment, in which case I see no player on the player-list worthy of a policy Vig.
3.

L

et me simply repeat what I say in Choose Your Side when you asked the same question – there is nothing to gain by cheating in an online game where the only thing at stake is your pride.
4 / 5.

U

nder both scenarios I would offer a 50/50 split.

E

ach player in that sort of game isn’t doing anything significant to earn the money other than making smart choices.

B

y offering the decision maker less than an equal split I wouldn’t be making a smart choice.

P

ersonally I think only one response is appropriate -

I stripped out my quote of Toog and bolded the first letter of each full sentence to point out the crumb – It spells out FLASH BLUE BP.

Now it should be clear why I consider NoPoint’s Hider claim as not likely. I don’t see a Hider and a Bulletproof both as Town.

I will confirm that one of us was responsible for giving Jack the kill that he presumably used on SensFan.

Good. I wanted to be sure that when I went looking at kill numbers and sources that there was assurance the death of Jack made sense.

--

Bold is common to both possibilities. Italicized is not true. Town has a PR who can prevent townies from being recruited.

I want to be clear. Based on your initial claim your three NEW powers are also 1 shot. Is this incorrect? Because if it is a good assumption your statement isn’t valid as

1. A 1 shot Immunization and 1 shot Black Cop hardly qualifies as ‘significant’.
2. Your premature death via Scum (which could have been a possibility) would rob the Town of even that small power.

Also, I see we once again disagree on whether a Mod mechanic or a hidden cult recruiter is more bastardly. Shocking.

@Kast

– Dekes asked a good question that you have not answered that I can see. Please do so in your next post.

You say that KK made up a rather obscure name in fear of getting cc'd. So what does that make him exactly? If he's scum do you think he a) didn't get a mod provided fakeclaim, b) was provided a poor fakeclaim of a character not taking part in the Blackest Night that could expose him or c) ignored the mod given fakeclaim and made up his own?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna not being dead makes me think Magna LOL CHECK OUT THAT WIOFM.

It so nice of you to take on the character of your color (Red being mindless rage, with a highlight on the mindless part)!

But it looks like you are getting a pass from the rope today, obv-Red Lantern.

BTW, where's your response to where I dissected your scumtastic attack earlier? Oh that's right it's nowhere, just like any other time anyone calls you on your scum play. Because you don't have one. Lulz.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm a bit skeptical of your claim, but since you're probably Yellow if non-town at all, you're good for now.

I understand where you are coming. You have to be sceptical. That said I think NoPoint’s claim of Hider who CANNOT be targeted by anything if he hides and does NOT die after hiding behind scum is comically bad.

BUT. I think I'm going to reread the thread.
Why? We have a shitload of flipped scumbags and townies. If we can nail down some of them/ strengthen my own reads then I'll feel much better going into the lynch.
I *should* have time to do it tomorrow morning.

I don’t disagree at all with re-reading for clarity. That said you are the Town Lynchpin at this point so most players are waiting for your nod as which way to go.

--

Because it is poorly reasoned, he is voting for me based on that he just thinks I am scum and not caring about the color of scum I supposedly am. If I was yellow, lynching me would be a waste because there will still be at least 3 kills tonight and could take town numbers way down.

This is basically a scum-claim, IMO. Town doesn’t really care, in the end, about the exact color of the player they lynch. Lynching scum is lynching scum. And Town, barring some sort of PR information, really will never be sure of the color of their scum candidate.

So the ‘Lynching me if you think I am Yellow is stupid’ is scumtastic. Lynching Scum is never stupid. It might not be optimal to get rid of a Yellow with a lynch but is still a net positive to Town.

I'd recommend against vigging me if you have the ability. It would be a wasted shot, the scum will probably take me out tonight as they wouldn't want to be vigged tomorrow night by me. Take out a suspected scum (not me) tonight if you have a shot. Tomorrow if I am still alive I will have my vig shot and can take out someone, I'll even let you pick, Kdub

‘Give me one more night to prove myself’ scum tell in full effect. Kast is using it also.

--

I like how you are so obsessed with making me RED because you are RED and you need that read to go away.

I'll be the one LULZING later when you flip RED.

Wow, AGM has been visiting http://www.flailandfail.com! Not a single person has a Red read on me. Way to continue to fulfil the mindless part of the Red ‘mindless rage’.

I certainly can’t wait to endgame when I can throw this back in your face since you are so clearly wrong and flailing.

In fact you know what you are personifying? Scum Panic!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

I actually clicked the flailandfail.com link. Its broken.

Lulz. It isn't an actual site. I was just being funny and didn't bother to correct MS when it made it an actual link.

[MagnaofIllusion]

First posting that I probably will have little access this weekend, so consider me V/LA until Monday.

--

I like how you cut out the line from my quote where I said "show me the case and I'll respond." Do you not want me to respond, or something?

Lol. If I didn’t want you to respond I would not have made the response at 1740 that destroyed your ‘he’s lurking under pressure’ attack. Really this is just lazy bad on your part. It’s not my job to be your servant and present everything to you on demand. I wrote it in the first place for a reason. Read the thread.

I presented it to you once before. You ignored it. I call you out on it and you act like my 6 year old (I can’t find it find it for me). Then you proceed to pretend that I never did so in the first place and try to imply it is scummy.

And I admit to flailing around - it's because I don't know WTF is going on and 1) people keep saying, "setup spec says your scum," which I don't know how to respond to other than with a "um, no" and 2) MoI keeps referencing this invisible case and complaining I'm ignoring it, but then he ignores my request to find the case.

Translation

– Poor little AGM I’m so lost and not able to understand why people are calling me Red Scum. Mean old MoI keeps calling me scum. Leave me be so I can drink your heart blood.

Seriously the case on you isn’t invisible.

1. You aren’t scum-hunting but cruising trying to avoid the radar. You've only 'perked up' when your name suddenly is on the firing line.
2. You played to your self-professed scum meta by bussing Sensfan as your only significant vote and suspicion all game.
3. Your attacks have gotten progressively scummier as the days have gone on.

Not very hard at all to understand.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Mass-prod received … I guess my notice of V/LA til today wasn’t sufficient

The game has unfortunately stalled because everyone is waiting on our Town leader to make his decision. It’s one of the downsides of having a strong Town facilitator.

My condensed thoughts regarding who I would like to lynch today –

1. NoPoint

– he’s claimed a role that makes no sense in context of most non-bastard Mafia games. Furthermore the way in which his role ‘claim’ unfolded is very suspect. When Spryrex indicated he had unspecified role information about NoPoint the response was ‘I hid behind Vi, why didn’t I die?’ That only makes sense in context of NoPoint being worried about a track / watch result and quickly concocting a claim. Later when Andrius claims role-based information about NoPoint his response is “Dude you tried to kill me I’m a Hider”. Not one mention that he couldn’t be targeted by any abilities other than a NK. Later when not being target-able is brought up suddenly he ‘remembers’ that he can’t be. He still has not shown the bread-crumbs he claimed to have left. Lastly his play in game is best described as trying to coast under the radar with a side of buddying those who defend him and villainizing those who attack him.

2. Tans

– Andrius’s result which indicates Tans is scum combined with his odd role-claim (an Unlynchable Vig) and continue calls to ‘give him another day or 2 to prove himself’ make him a solid second choice.

3. AGM

– I’ve laid out why AGM is scum. Lack of any scum-hunting, his self-professed attempt to bus Sensfan over his Investigation Immune Janitor leader, and his responses to suspicion of his obv-Red nature.

4. Kast

– The bulk of the reasons why Kast is a good potential lynch revolve around his role-claim and questionable Night choice claims. He’s by far last on my list when looking at scummy play.

--

Also - we feel best course of action is lynching among the yellow candidates and letting "fireworks take care of our other problems tonight." We've explained the theory before.

See this doesn’t make much sense to me. I know you’ve explained it before but the main motivation for Red and Orange to go scum-hunting for Yellow at this stage is their numerical advantage. Specifically going after Yellow via lynch, if successful, only removes that motivation. We have enough confirmed or strongly considered Town players at this stage that scum has little reason to worry about hunting each other if it gives Town an absolute lock on the game.

The way I see it Town should be approaching the lynch from two perspectives –

1. Lynching your top scum candidate based on scumminess not likelihood of Color.
2. Specifically hunting for players most likely to be Red, Orange or the Black Cult leader in an effort to kill the Cult or minimize the Nightkills.

Going after Yellow specifically in hunting is the worst of both worlds. As I explained above it removes motivation for cross-kills and doesn’t reduce kill potential or eliminate the Cult threat. If you want to go after you number 1 scum suspect I can see. Specifically hunting likely Yellow as opposed to other color threats or the most scummy players makes no sense.

I'm requesting one of our flavor gurus to explain how this impacts the game. I'm not sure if I'm getting anything from it. Because I read up some, and as far as I read, Plum's dude is actually a black lantern until like.. the end of shit.

I don’t think it really does (so I disagree with Kast). There was once a Green Lantern named Tomar Re who died. In the Green Lantern books another Green Lantern from the same race ( a humanoid race with Orange skin, no hair and a frilled crest on top of their head), Tomar Tu, has been alive and active into Blackest Night and I think it’s reasonable that dana might have mistaken him for Tomar Re.

The fact that William Hand (Black Hand, one of the main villains in Blackest Night with Nekron and Scar) appears in the game as a member of the Indigo Tribe (which he only makes an appearance as in the Blackest Night wrap-up) indicates to me that Kast is looking too hard at whether members of whatever Corp made actual appearances in the series itself.

--

Tans is obv-scum and there's a small chance he's not yellow from what he is saying (Blac, Orange??). MOI might also not be his partner-in-law but I'll be keeping a grizzly eye on him. I agree with Stove dude about getting yellow lynched and sick of justifying for those people calling me that yucky color Orange. Andy or Kast might be Blac but it is mostly gut feeling.

1. Wait so suddenly I’m not clearly Yellow?
2. Are you sick of being called Orange scum because you are? Because you haven’t provide any defense against the logic that labels you scum and most likely Orange.
3. So you think Andrius is possibly the Black recruiter despite the confluence of cross-confirmed power usage that shows he’s very likely Blue as he claims?
4. Who are you voting again right now?
5. I know very well as Town PR you play different than this (Zang's Mini Normal 1003). And the fact that you are supposedly NK immune as a Hider makes your scummy play here even less logical based on the meta I know for you as a Town PR.

--

I'm sheeping Andrius. Kast, MoI, tants, and nopoint all sound like fine lynches to me. I think, though, that the priority should be on black, so whoever Andrius thinks that is is who I will vote for.

Exhibit XVI why AGM is scummy Mr. Scumpants. Look at the previous entry in his ISO (76, post 1779). He attempts to assert that I am pushing an ‘invisible’ case on him and that everything that is said against him is ‘set-up’ spec.

I respond in 1780 directing him to the exact arguments that he ignored regarding his ‘MoI is lurking’ argument. And laid out a quick summary of the case on him.

He once again doesn’t respond

AT ALL

in any way to dispute what is said.

He knows it’s correct so going back to coasting and buddying confirmed Town is his only course of action.

THAT’S RIGHT AGM I’M GOING TO KEEP POINTING OUT YOUR SCUMMY PLAY UNTIL YOU HANG OR A VENTILATED AT NIGHT. YOU ARE CAUGHT SCUM AND HAVE NO CHANCE TO ESCAPE.

[MagnaofIllusion]

At this stage all the speculation about what should or might happen Night 4 is pointless. Until we have a flip to judge whether we’ve yet again successfully lynched Scum and if so what type trying to plan around how Scum factions will operate is a waste of time and typing.

So lets get to hanging NoPoint or Tans or AGM or Kast.

--

Based on the numbers, we've got 11 alive, and assuming starting distribution of 4x per color:

Aside from the other inherently bad assumptions in your large wall of numbers (one of which is that I’m Yellow) this line in itself is exactly why you spent all the time you did for nothing. Based on the claims as they have come down and based on the existence of a Black Recruiter the 4 across the board theory has been blown to Hades.

I do think the Recruiting is Operative Only, sounds like a very plausible limitation/mechanic

I have to disagree with Kast, Kdub and Andrius on this. Having a Cult with a separate win condition in a game with 9 unrecruitable targets (4 Red, 4 Yellow and 1 Orange) is borderline bastard modding. Adding another 2 to 3 per Color (so assuming an average lets say 10) unrecruitable players would bring the unrecruitable total to 19.

If that is the case there is no way there is an independent player with a Cult Recruitor win condition. In that case I’d expect the Black Lantern appearance to be Mod driven (which I still consider VERY bastard modding).

I think it is a safer to make no assumptions at all and assume there is a Black cult out there that may be 3 members strong and plan accordingly.

Also, to add on Stove's speculation, I bet KK's setting up for a Stove recruit tonight.

If you really believe that KK is the Black Recruitor this is just stupid. Telegraphing in thread who you would want to recruit would be suicide.

This is another checkmark in the “Kast as Black trying to scum up an alternate candidate” column for me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOI:
1> I didn't say you aren't Yellow xD I said you have a chance of not being yellow.
2> What's that logic? They basically said I'm not red, I'm not yellow, therefore I'm Orange. WTF?
3> G .... U .... T
4> ...
5> I change my playstyle a lot.

1. You suddenly are a lot less sure than you were earlier. Reads to me as backing off your position with not a single reason as to why.
2. I laid out in 1802 very succienctly why, aside from you brutally bad claim, I think you are very likely Orange. It has nothing to do with eliminating you from Red or Yellow. That you ONCE AGAIN ignore everything said doesn’t mean it isn’t there. It just means you are trying the ostrich defense.
3. Great. I’ll file that in the ‘Pointless’ cabinet for later.
4. I asked who you were voting for because Mod vote counts are very rare around here.
5. If you are actively trying to play this scummy as a “playstyle” change then you probably should worry less about being able to be metaed and more about not being Obv-scum. The last part is for future reference. I’m glad as scum you made that decision here.

I like KDub's theory. Though there is many unrecruitables. Black appears later on in the game so they could use POE to deduce the Operatives easy peasy.

I love how you are taking as fact that Black wasn’t here from the start. Am I wrong about you being Orange and you are Black instead and letting your inside info show?

--

I would consider it even more bastardly if Black could recruit scum (basically meaning their whole scum team is exposed) or a mason. It's plausible that Black can recruit other town PRs, although in that case, I think there would have to be some limitation (i.e. not unlimited recruit attempts) for balance.

I agree that Scum recruiting is outside of the Norm. I just don’t necessarily see Town PRs as being off the table logically.

[MagnaofIllusion]

All of your arguments can be interpreted in either direction MOI. In other word, you are not saying I'm scum, you are once again saying I might be scum, which goes for everyone. Ya?

Just No. Do everyone a favor and just stop flailing and hang quietly. You might save some dignity that way.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOI: ZOMGGGGG NoPoint is scum for ignoring everythingzzz
Nopoint: Here you go, here are my arguments *bow*
MOI: STFU be ashamed of yourself and hang quietly
Nopoint: ???

What? Your post isn't an argument. An argument would take all the things I've said an counter them. You do nothing of the sort. This is just pure, scumtastic rhetoric.

1. You haven’t EVER showns the breadcrumbs you claimed to have done.

Do so NOW

.
2. You haven’t made the slightest attempt to explain anything about that I pointed out in 1802 such as –

A. Why you didn’t claim untargettability when Hiding immediately when Spyrex claimed role info on you.
B. Why you claimed that Andrius tried to kill you instead of once again claiming untargettablilty when Andy claimed to have targeted you with a Cookie.
C. Why you only remembered about that 'part' of your role after Spyrex theorized about it.

3. You don’t address how improbable it is for a Hider to exist who can’t be targeted by any ability when Hiding and also doesn’t die when hiding behind scum. Also in context of flavor you didn’t explain how using a “Bulldozer” explains why you can’t be targeted by other abilities while hiding

I’m not going to even bother to ask you to explain your coasting and lack of scum-hunting.

The quote above is exactly the same thing AGM has tried (and been smacked down for). Thanks for adopting yet another scum tactic.

Facts as they stand

- your belabored explanation fits much more as trying to make your real role as an action Immune SK fit to a Hiderfake claim than an actual claim.

[MagnaofIllusion]

This means that I'm confident that I won't be vigged.

So that’s your breadcrumb. Nothing about being a Green Lantern, no attempt to work your Role Name in? Just you are confident you will not be vigged?

Weak. Moving on …

A. Becuz I was not told that he targetted me

Um what? No Hider is told that someone targeted them. Durp.

Furthermore explain this sequence of events –

I may have some more awesome to add to it.

Nopoint: Claim.

The clear implication here is that Spyrex has role information on you.

Nopoint needs to make with the claiming before night. 100%

This further solidifies that perception.

And what the deal with making me claim?

In your first post of the day you clearly show you see that Spyrex is asking you to claim.

Because SpyreX claimed something on you.

Andy expressly states that Spyrex has role information on you in the next post.

Ahh yeah I see. Spy could be rolefishing but Imma claim anyways cuz I'm kinda safe. I breadcrumbed it I'm a hider and I have no idea why I'm not dead yet.

This is your next post.

If your role functioned as you claim you wouldn’t have said Spy ‘could’ be role-fishing because you would know he was since he couldn’t have role-information on you. Instead you try to cover the eventuallity that you would be worried about -- a Watcher. This took place well before Kats claimed Watcher so your claim that you hid behind a dead body was the result.

B. It was a fuking joke for godsake! And I thought it was obvious that nothing could target me while I hide.

So now it was a joke. Derp.

Hider being unable to be targeted by any ability is not a standard but variant of the Hider role. And not dying when hiding behind scum is FAR from standard. In truth I’ve never seen it before. Also given that Reck supposedly died as a Mason trying to recruit Kats I find that particular claim by you suspect.

Ya ya I know you're gonna say it's madness odd bullshit blah blah blah but whatever, at least I'm not faking the damn thing.

Preemptively arguing against something is a mild scum-tell, IMO. Thanks for adding that to the list. Are you saying you are not faking anything because that is the ‘flavor’ you got in you Mod fake-claim?

Also, I actually have more chance of being killed if I hide. Since 4-5 people are targetted with kill abilities per night. I just don't die on those WITH INTENT TO KILL ME. So I think it's pretty balanced.

Way to once again try to ignore the fact that Hiders as a standard role die when hiding behind scum. So your conclusion that your role is ‘pretty balanced’ is fairly illogical.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Andy -

If you think lynching Tans is the way to go then vote him. That's the signal the flock of Saint Walker sheep are all waiting to see.

Your vote is currently unused

[MagnaofIllusion]

*cue Magna ranting about me being scum*

Lulz. At this stage I think the ranting is done. As long as you stop fighting the obviousness of it I have no need to keep showing why you so obviously are.

*cue AGM with a grand NO U! *

[MagnaofIllusion]

This is my offical declaration of "I told you to lynch NoPoint instead" if Tans for some odd reason isn't scum.

That said,

UNVOTE: NoPoint
VOTE: Tans

L-2 with Andy waiting in the wings.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Now I’m starting to become very confused.

At this point I think we should do the following:
-> lynch tanstalas
either he A) dies and flips BIG scumbag (goon wouldn't claim unlynchable)
or B) he doesn't die and we go straight to night, where scum will probably shoot him

This does not say I’d rather lynch NoPoint. Grrr.

MoI's reaction isn't what I expected either.

Well I’ve been banging that drum for three days now and it has had NO momentum. I’ve gotten tired of fighting uphill on it. If you are more interested in hanging NoPoint I’ll 100% support that decision and will join you in a heartbeat.

I'll hammer if need be, but was hoping for some sort of discussion. :/

We’ve had discussion since the day began. I think cases for Tans, NoPoint, AGM, Kast and others have been made abundantly clear.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI: What concerns me is about how easily people (noteable you and AGM) just passed off votes as sheepdom. Meh.

You can’t have anointed yourself Town Leader who wants to direct Town towards a victory and then worry when people follow your lead.

You probably need to decide whether you think NoPoint or Tans should hang and make your vote.

--

I really do not even see why we are contemplating lynching me.

Are you purposefully ignoring the repeated point Andy has made that his results indicate you are scum?

[MagnaofIllusion]

No objections from me ...

UNVOTE: Tans
VOTE: NoPoint.

Your actions themselves combined with the general concensus of Players have made you the Town focus Andy. For better or worse you are the person who bears the weight of the position.

And I don't quite recall you taking Town Leadership as a Mason in Harry Potter ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Making daughter breakfast but wanted to answer Andrius.

Last night I was handed a beautiful blue gun. I used it to shoot Kast.

I'm a little put off he isnt't dead.

Also Tans in so FULL OF SHIT it isn't funny. Now he's both lynch and NK immune?

By the way Tans - there are no missing kills to claim resulted in your NK immunity. So your little 'Screw you scum' was funny,

[MagnaofIllusion]

That post should also have said I'll be making a full post tonight.

And the last sentance should have read "there are no missing kills to claim resulted in

THE TRIGGERING OF

your NK immunity".

[MagnaofIllusion]

My catch-up from the Weekend

–

I can now die during night because my NK got used up during the night (I assume - I didn't get a PM from the mods saying it was used up but since only 2 kills... I assume it was)

I specifically wanted to say how craptastic this evolution on your claim is. So now you are a Odd Night Vig with 1 Shot each of Unlynchability and Bulletproof. Any additional Vig abilities in a game with 3 Scum NK factions and a Town Vig-maker is absurd. Also, like NoPoints horrible Hider claim your semi-bulletproof claim conflicts with my claim. So just hang.

Bleh

VOTE: Tanstalas

I think we have enough people that a no-lynch today won't cause an issue. I can see lynching me might be a concern. So lets just do it now, go to night, I'll kill a scumbag and probably also die, then you guys can win/finish it up tomorrow. Sound good?

Classic example of “Self-vote in a safe situation so that I can look Town when caught scum”. Seriously. Andy as already specifically stated everyone should hold of for further role information at this point. So you aren’t in danger of getting more votes before you can unvote when you pull this.

And true Town, regardless of the direness of their situation in a game where Town bodies are VERY important, doesn’t self vote. It doesn't happen. Even Chesskid, one of the true VI brigade, knows not to do that. Town self-vote early in the game, not late.

--

You went from "im unlynchable period" to "im oneshot bulletproof and oneshot lynchproof" overnight. That must be a really cool role to be able to mutate each night as you are in deeper and deeper suspicion. MoI, you agree? xD

Evolving claims tend to equal scum, IMO. Town, if they have unstated powers tends to leave them unstated. Just look at Bunnylover in Gorrad's recently ended Large Game. His claim, which he specifically left vague, when backed by Mod confirmage left the scum in a WIFOM spiral that helped undue them. The manner in which Tans stormed into the thread shouting "They tried to shoot me and fail LOLOLOL KKEKEKEKEK" isn't from a Town perspective, especially with other reasons why a Kill might not have happened already made public.

Not sure what the smilie face after the question to me is supposed to mean.

Hot damn this game is going great. 4/4 scum lynches.

If the Town does end up wrapping things up then hopefully one of the scum members (or the Mod) should seriously look at nominating the Town for Best Town Peformance. A string of scum lynches like that needs to be recognized.

I’m still somewhat miffed that did not happen in LOTR Mafia. (Yeah Andy, I’m looking at you as the Mod ).

--

I guess you could make a case for Stove being an investigation-immune scum, but I say we lynch confirmed-scum tans, see where we stand tomorrow, and make a decision on that then.

I agree that Stove isn’t totally clear as the Starbuck never elaborated on the nature of her scan. If we run out of actual scum suspects and the game isn’t ended then we can revisit the possibility of Stove as investigation immune.

--

Tans hanging seems to be the natural course of action. He’s either going to flip Yellow / Orange (my bet is Yellow, BTW) and we have another reduced NK or he flips Black and we have less to worry about on the Cult front.

If Dekes is able to be motivated and double protect then I think Town is in better shape than I would have thought when a Doc was not thought to exist.

VOTE: Tans

--

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah, yet another JOAT claim ...

Andy once Kast rolls in with whatever crap he's going to spew we can lynch Tans.

In the meantime I believe you should start getting Night actions together.

PREVIEW EDIT

- Actually Dekes I think Kast's JOAT claim looks way worse than Kagelord's. In either case I think Tans has the worst claim of the three and needs the rope pronto.

[MagnaofIllusion]

God damn Ninjas ... will read those posts after I get this one made.

--

tanny is at L-1.
Anything else we need to do today?

Actually I think he is at L-2. Dekes jumped over to Kage, remember.

I think getting Night actions coordinated should be a priority.

I would suggest the following would be a wise course of action –

Once Tans flips scum –

Andy once again motivates Dekes.
Dekes double protects the Blue Brothers.
Kdub gives a Blue gun to someone other than Dekes (to prevent RB issues)
Kagelord shoots Kast
Whoever gets the Blue bullet shoots Kast.

In the very miniscule chance Tans doesn’t flip –

The same as above expect the Blue bullet goes to Tans.

Andy / Kdub / Dekes – Thoughts or holes you can see?

--

Having a kill, a protect and an investigation and waiting till N3 because "he didn't think he would get NK'd"? I think that's pretty much on par with Kast and tans here.

I'm pretty sure KageLord is gambling going after Kast again tonight and if Kast won't flip JOAT we would be more likely to believe Kage's claim.

I’m not sure that the first part is compelling evidence when you are considering Kagelord. He’s not a strong player so the chances of him drawing a N1 and N2 kill with the playerlist we had here wouldn’t be that significant. And although it is convenient that he had his Mad World meta at his fingertips it isn’t anything but Null IMO.

The second quote is very possible. I still would place Kage distinctly third behind Tans and Kast on the kill depth chart.

--

I think it should be clear and obvious that I'm the ONLY person who would even attempt to do anything to KK. Redirecting MoI to KK should prove I'm not Black. At the least it should confirm I'm telling the truth about my redirection, and hence show I am a PR (which if Andy still holds to his belief that PRs are unlikely to be Black Recruiter, that should add to it).[/quote

How convenient an explanation … that you redirected my Blue Kill of Justice to KK as opposed to yourself. As for proving you are not Black I’m curious how your unproven claim here clears you in any way.

I was wrong about KK being Black Recruiter, but his flip also tells us something else: MoI is VERY LIKELY the Black Recruiter. Dana won't confirm whether their initial heads-up note to me means Black started recruiting the night Plum died or the night after Plum died, but from PMing RC, I think I'm right about that suspicion. The implications of this are that we got pretty lucky with Toog getting killed the night he was recruited, and now again KK was likely killed the same night he was recruited.

Funny that both Black Lantern flips died convienantly the night they were BOTH recruited. At this point I think you are pretty clearly either Agent Orange or the Black Recruitor and are fabricating your ‘actions’ to best cover your tracks.

And once again you’re delving into the theoretical outguessing the Mod game again. That worked so well last game

@MoI-
You really have a thing for "spewing" and "crap". Do you have a personal goal to use those words/phrase/imagery in every game?

Unsurprisingly no. It only tends to happen when I encounter someone who relishes throwing around the aforementioned crap like you do.

[MagnaofIllusion]

It's REALLY REALLY weird how he suddenly goes off on Kast for no apparent reason.

I think KK was signaling Kast is the recruiter.

I think KK wanted Kast lynched so KK would revert to town.

The other Moonbeamie theory involved would be safe distancing. KK went after Kast hard so that if KK ever flipped Kast would be ‘cleared’ of being black by their interactions. It makes sense since Kast wasn’t likely to be hung over NoPoint or Tans yesterday.

I still lean towards Kast being Agent Orange. Which I said two days ago on the off chance NoPoint wasn’t the SK.

--

I picked MOI BECAUSE HE WAS PROBABLE SK.

EVERYTHING he did gets redirected to the target I PICK. His BLACK RECRUITMENT and his KILL got redirected from whoever he wanted to target to KK. When I die and flip town, you NEED TO PAY ATTENTION and LYNCH MOI.

Again lovely how you I went from Orange to Black based on the fact that you ‘redirected’ my Blue shot to KK (which I’m pretty sure is bullshit) and that fits your little fairy tale.

If anything you’ve concocted this story of Redirecting to cover your own possible NK protection given I failed to kill you last night.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI-
To be clear, you're saying I gambited that claiming to be a JoAT with a redirect would be so unbelievable that people would want to shoot me and then I could claim I redirected it. Despite the fact that I also offered to redirect

ANY

player of the town's choice to

ANY

other player.

Makes tons of sense; it's such a winning play to make a fake claim with the intention of getting people to not believe you and thus try to NK you.

Your claim is pretty absurd. That I agree. All things said everything you have claimed so far is competely unprovable. Not an iota of it can be corroborated.

The facts as I see them -

1. You claim to be a color changing role with two discrete sets of unprovable powers.
2. You are claiming that convienantly all Black recruits just happen to be recruited on the days they died. Odds of that? Slim to none, and slim left town, IMO.
3. Your theories wobble back and forth each day to match the game state as it presents each morning. MoI is Yellow. No wait, he's Orange. Scratch that he's confirmed Black by my faked redirection!!!! There is no black recruitor. No wait it's Plum from beyond the grave. No wait there is one and its KK. Oops, scratch that make that MoI.

I also find it funny that your 100% tell that KK was fake-claiming once again was proven incorrect. You've been pretty much wrong on everything we've see come to pass. At least a broken clock is right twice a day.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I still prefer a Tans lynch (since I'm almost sure he's Yellow and would thus take care of a NK) but would support Kast (who is likely Orange, thus taking care of a NK).

Discussion?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok ... Andy needs some sort of soothing medication.

Voting Tans needs to happen and will do so.

Get to it people.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Andy .. the hammer is yours ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Um you need 1 more vote for that Sinestro.

You could self-hammer ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

That's why scum use AtE Andy ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Especially since he knows he wasn't hammered and is just reaction fishing for a turn-around.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok Tans now you can come clean since that's five.

NoPoint and xvart had the decency to do so, join them. It will cleanse your Yellow heart.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Didn't work out so well in [REDACTED] did it Andy?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I know man, it's a gift.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok ... I'm developing some thoughts but need to see the results Andy has mentioned. Actually I think a mass-claim of name, powers and targets would be appropriate at this stage.

Fully Claimed so far -

MoI

Need name only -

The Stove

Need some combination of role-name or a full accounting of Night activities -

Andrius
Dekes
Kagelord

[MagnaofIllusion]

Andy take a deep breath ... it hasn't even been 24 hours since the thread opened.

[MagnaofIllusion]

*sigh*
He should be on by now...

I know and think it is important we hear from him ... very important.

That said getting worked up because he isn't posting yet is not going to make him log on faster.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna, you don't understand.
He is the key.

That may be the case. I however would like the full claim process to be complete before we start commenting.

Stove - since you are only claiming a name I think it would be ok if you jumped in at any point.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok.

To-Do List:
Dekes claim last night results.
KageLord claims last night results.
Stove nameclaims.
Anyone else with important information provides it.

FTFY

[MagnaofIllusion]

Not to be a downer but look at Kagelord's sig ... it announces a V/LA til Saturday / Sunday.

[MagnaofIllusion]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
HE IS DELAYING MY WIN.

Isn't that Town's win? This is the issue I have with giving Andy so much 'power' in the game ... it goes straight to his head

[MagnaofIllusion]

MODs – I’ll be V/LA from shortly until Monday for a weekend family vacation.

--

Since we are likely to be waiting on Kage until after I depart I’d like to post half of the big post I would be making. I’m still holding off on the main portion that I think applies but see no point in not sharing the TinFoil Hat part as it’s more off the wall speculation that isn’t harmful to the full-claim process.

WARNING – THE FOLLOWING IS TINFOIL HAT TERRITORY. DO NOT READ BELOW WITHOUT YOUR TRUSTY TINFOIL HAT PUT SOLIDLY ON YOUR HEAD.

FURTHER WARNING – I THINK THE CHANCES OF THE FOLLOWING BEING ACTUALLY REPRESENTATIVE OF REALITY ARE LESS THAN 0.5% CHANCE.

Ok, after Kast’s reveal I’ve been mulling over some things. As Stove had presented it appears that the 4:4:4:4:4:4:1 setup has more or less be fulfilled. It got me wondering about some of the speculation Kast did. I did so because Kast has two qualities that I think are relevant to the discussion

1. He’s very well versed in the flavor lore.
2. He loves mechanics based discussions.

In light of these two things I went back and read over his early discussion regarding the Black. Do it for yourself and start looking around ISO 12. His first instinct is that there really isn’t an active Black recruitor and that it is either Plum acting from beyond the grave or that it is a Mod driven mechanic. Also relevant is that he chose to actively fake-claim a powerful anti-Black role. At that stage of the game he couldn’t know if any un-outed Town players actually had anti-Black abilities and risked being counterclaimed. I don’t see it as likely someone as calculating as Kast doing so if he actually believed that there was an active player who was a Cult Recruitor.

Add in that his strong support for said Black Recruitor only came when PoE put him (rightfully) on the chopping block. Scare-tactics for the win.

This got me thinking about the possibility that the Black Lanterns are some sort of Mod driven mechanic.

Things we know –

1. We’ve seen one flip a Night of Black Lantern Corps players. Only Nightkills are labeled as such.
2. The flips began N3, one night after Plum (who was William Hand aka Black Hand, one of the main Black Lantern figures) died.
3. We’ve never lynched a Black player.

Looking to the flavor of Blackest Night source material the over-arching Theme of the series is the concept of all the Lantern Corps coming together to combat the menace of the Black Lanterns. This included Red and Yellow in the source material.

If we are looking at a Mod driven mechanic then it would stand to reason there would be some way for the players to satisfy this “working together” Theme in the game to end the threat of the Black Lanterns.

The two things that come to my mind are –

1. A unanimous vote by all living players to lynch the Mods
2. A no-lynch

Either of these choices could symbolize the ‘coming together’ to unite the colors to created the ‘White Light of Creation’ to overcome the Black Lanterns.

It’s possible that the game hasn’t ended to give the remaining players a chance to do this.

YOU ARE NOW CLEAR OF THE TINFOIL HAT AREA. RESUME LOGICAL THOUGHT PROCESSES NOW.

I feel better having got that out of my head. Truth be told the only reason I posted it at all was so I could point to it and go “Nah nah nah nah nah” if somehow after all is said and done my specualation was correct or reasonable close to correct. Yes, this entire post is about sustaining pointless e-peen bragging rights. Also since I'm rather bored waiting for Kage to appear since discussion is dead without his input.

Now we can go back to being logical and actually looking for the Black Recruitor. Because I very much doubt the game at this point would continue just for dana and RC to be mean to us with all the original Scum factions wiped out.

BTW

– One of you scum (or the Mods) had best nominate the Town as a whole for ‘Best Town Performance’. 5 straight days of scum lynches is impressive.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'd also like to give a shout out to Kast, Tans and NoPoint in the dead QT -

You all kept trying to link me as Yellow for my push on obv-scum NoPoint over Kats and xvart.

And low and behold you all were scum of various flavors and I'm what I said I was ..

Mark one for the 'thinking logically about motivations' crowd again.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok first I’ll catch-up with the thread …

So. I think its worth a shot to lynch the mod. We are not No Lynching, because that's just retarded. The only reason we'd have to do that is if we KNEW he has no recruits, as he started N3 and each of them have been killed in-turn. But no. We don't know that, so he could have a second member, in which case No Lynching dooms us.

Suddenly MoI's suggestion to No Lynch became very shady.

You two did read the ALL CAPS BOLD TEXT and post-script right. Please don’t suggest that my ramblings were in any way a suggestion of the route we should take.

There is no way in hell you’d get me to agree with a No Lynch today even if I felt 80% chance the Tinfoil theory was right. At this point I don't even think bothering with a 100% Mod vote is worth the time.

--

It's not you, Andrius, is it?

I’m almost positive that you are joking here but statements like this really make me wary. From Town-Dekes POV Andy MUST be confirmed not-Black recruiter. You’ve now claimed twice to received Blue colored motivation from him. And he’s been claiming Blue power for Days on end and obviously not been counter-claimed. He can’t be the Big Bad Black.

@Dekes

– Your mini-case at 2094 is interesting. I will need to re-read (hopefully tonight) Kagelord. I’ve seen his play as scum and want to see if I see specific aspects that mimic that play as well as confirming your point 1.

I’d like an answer to the following question – does your Point 2 suggest you feel more strongly that Plum’s death caused a 4 person Black Lantern Corp (1 from each color) to come into existence N2 than you do in the existence of an active Black recruitor?

If we go with the recruiter theory there's a good chance MoI has been recruited. If Kdub was recruited earlier than N3 AND he's able to pass his shot to other recruitees (scary thought) then it makes sense that Jack got the blue vig shot by Kdub N3 and subsequently it would mean that Kdub continued to pass on his vig shot to other recruitees (if this is true we actually have to thank Kast for redirecting MoI's kill to KK).

Actually that’s possibly the worst line of thinking on recruits I could come up with. You don’t recruit someone who you think has any chance of being lynched. And my chances of being lynched were higher than any remaining players (up until the last Yellow flipped anyway) other than Kage.

If I was looking at logical potential recruits you and Andy would be at the top of my list, followed by Stove a fair distance back. You both were under no lynch pressure and since especially since the mass color claim.

--

Things we can infer: Black Recruiter has existed since the beginning, since the ONLY indication otherwise was Kast's fakeclaim.

I’m going to be thinking over Dekes’ point I referenced above but I don’t think inferring anything at this point is safe. IIRC Kast made his fake-claim after the first Black Lantern flip.

Magna, are you notified when someone shoots you? Just curious.

My role PM does not specify and I’ve never received any PM from the Mods indicating so. When I inquired about the possibility I got the usual song-and-dance saying basically ‘Maybe, maybe not, I’m not going to tell you regardless’.

Tells of a Cult Recruiter:
1) unconfirmable actions
2) won't claim a confirmable PR
3) investigates town
4) no NK
5) will claim VT unless they have a good FC with with non-confirmable actions

Yeah you do know that this pretty much applies to every remaining player to some degree besides yourself, right?

And if I were recruited there would be HARSH WORDS in the cult QT because I utterly HATE being anything other than town, namely because I can't actually PLAY as non-town. Hence why I picked town colors, because I WANTED TO BE TOWN.

After seeing the end of Choose Your Side firsthand this makes me hate you even more Andy. </3

--

Question: Why is Andy still alive? I'm not saying it's evidence of anything against him, but I just want to know what everyone thinks is the reason because I can't think of any good reason.

Your whole catch-up post was fairly suspect but this take the cake right here. I’ve read your later ‘retraction’ but this is just not consistent with what Town-Kage should be thinking.

1. You claimed to have protected Andy himself with your ‘JOAT’ power.
2. Andy’s early play and claim landed him as solidly perceived Town which would make him an obv-Doc target.
3. The question you should be asking as Town is not why Andy is alive but why Dekes (as outed Doc with enhanced powers) isn’t dead and why Kdub died. Because that is perhaps the least likely course of events in my mind.

Also, the theory does assume that I knew for a fact that Kast wasn't actually a JOAT (if he was and I killed him, I would get screwed).

Using Kast’s obv-fake role-claim as ‘Evolving JOAT who skipped his Doc protect and suddenly gained Anti-Black powers when Town needed them most’ as defense for your claim is scummy. Of course you could shoot him with impunity. It was a horrible claim. Your later claim of plain old Regular JOAT would be supported by his scum flip.

And it doesn't seem odd to you that out of all players I would attempt to throw suspicion on obvtown? If I was final scum close to being nailed, I would almost certainly go for Stove or MoI before you two. Though, tbh, I would have recruited Andy at the first opportunity.

Hmmm … a dash of WIFOM about how you would have recruited Andy early (before his unclaimed and then nebulous Powers were explained).

Then another dash of WIFOM saying ‘Why would I attack Obv-Town if I was scum’. Umm, why as Town would you bother making that statement anyway? Andy isn’t possibly the Black Recruiter so going after him is pointless.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh Magna. You don't think I'm good enough to have played this great for this long? I'm wounded, Magna.

Um, whut? I was speaking to Dekes. I'm not doubting you've played a great game. I saw Prison Mafia first-hand. I'm doubting 100% you could possibly be the Black Recruitor since you outed the limitation to your and Kdub's power before you could have know about it as said recruitor (aka Day 1).

We have NO EVIDENCE to support the Black

magically joined the game

somewhere during N2/D3. So what, some town player is magically converted to Black Recruiter? The Black Recruiter existed from the beginning, but "sorry, you can't recruit until Plum is dead".

When I was reading to catch-up Dekes' theory made some sense (a limited four person cult being 'created' by Black Hand's death). That said after some minor reflection there is no way in my mind Kdub could have been changed N2 with Plum's death and handed the gun to Jack on Day 3. I just don't see him taking that chance with Jack the wild-card. So, yes, I agree we've had Mr. Black from the start.

Oh hush Magna. Next thing I know you're going to lynch ME.
These are just tells. This, combined with DayPlay is an essential GUIDE to catching them.
Not that hard.

Um no Andy. Getting the recruiter is paramount since lynching a possible recruit doesn't move us forward but more or less seals the game unless the Cult is out of recruits and only numbers the Recruiter right now.

I didn't know you hated me at all, Magna.

I don't hate you Andy. I just was infuriated with the end of that game. AGM should have been hung from the rafters the minute he made his TERRIBLE original claim (which from my direct knowledge I knew had to be fake) and doubly so when he claimed unlynchability. Tans proved that is a complete bullshit claim that must be challenged. That you chose to give yourself over to AGM's cult as opposed to just lynching his lying ass to this Day makes my blood boil. You had a choice ....

Ok ... I'm going to take a breather ...

Ok, better now. Anyway I probably am not going to get my full review of the flipped Black players and Kage / Dekes / Stove until the morning. I am exhausted.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I tried to keep the "Blue Lantern Trade Secret" as hidden as possible so we could check any other Blue PRs that claimed.
So I'm a tad confused how I outed it D1 when I only gave it away YESTERDAY. (D5)

Think just a little bit Andy. I'm not talking about specifically outing it. I'm talking about even acknowledging the existance of said Blue PR limitations. Or at least hinting in your posts. I'm seeing inferences when reading back over.

Again, if you want to persist in arguing with me in my stance you are 100% not possibly the Black Recruiter please continue ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

I started doing a big re-read post and was halfway through when my computer crashed.

Suffice it to say the progress I had made has helped me feel very comfortable about Kagelord being today’s lynch.

I started from the standpoint that we have to lynch the Recruiter today. Otherwise even if we lynch a Black recruit we go down to 4 players at night. Risking the game on lynching a minion on the hope that the leader can’t act again is not a risk I want to take.

From that point of view I didn’t bother to even look at Andrius’ ISO. For reasons already stated multiple times in thread he can’t be the Big Bad Black.

That leaves Kagelord, Dekes and The Stove as possibilities for me to review. I looked at their ISOs from a scum-hunting perspective, for interactions with known Black recruits (Toog, KK and Kdub), and for anything that smelled of potential Black knowledge before we got the Night 3 reveal on Toog.

I could rebuild my long post but I’ll go with the TL DR version because I am tired of typing –

The Stove and Dekes read completely differently from Kage. The Stove’s interaction with KK alone makes me think he’s very unlikely to be the Big Black. KK attacked him in the same way he went after Kast. Dekes has had interaction of all sorts (questioning, accusation, etc) with the dead recruits. Both have shown interest in scum-hunting and discussing the game.

Kage on the other hand reads on cruise control. The only part of his ISO that reads at all as active are the portions where he is defending his play. Furthermore his interactions with the Black recruits is no-existant. He doesn’t even type one of their names until after Toog dies. That’s the sort of play I’d expect from Cult buddies – he’s careful not to draw negative attention to them and doesn’t want to be linked to them by supporting / defending / agreeing with them either.

I’d like to see Stove actually check in … his lurking may just be indicative of a Black recruit who sees the writing on the wall.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I think I brought this up before, but what do you think of the possibility that black kills as it recruits (i.e. black's wincon is to gain a certain amount of members by killing them, kind of like a magic kill number for an SK) based on the flavor of Black Lanterns being dead/using dead people? Absolutely impossible? Very unlikely? Maaaaaaaaybe? Definitely possible?

Instead of grasping at straws looking for someone to do the work for you why didn't you do this yourself?

I'll be posting my thoughts on this theory momentarily.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Kagelord

Now we wait for Dana for the awesome Victory.

The only other thing to say at this point is ...

"Across the Universe .... the Dead Shall Rise"

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hot damn.

Magna, can we recruit Dekes and Stove in the endgame, or..?

No clue what happens now.

Reaper and Dana will tell the tale.

I'm going to bed. I stayed up two hours past my bedtime for this.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh, if The Stove somehow pulled off a fake-vote gambit congratulations. I carefully examined your post and couldn't detect any flaws in the vote.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'll info dump in the morning Andy.

Thanks for being such a good sport about the recruitment.

[MagnaofIllusion]

13 scum in a 27 player game...no role to detect/prevent recruitings...that is all.

There were multiple roles that could catch the Recruiter / recruits. Kdub and Andy for certain and I’m guessing Spyrex also could also do so.

Add in the fact that all three Scum factions could kill the Recruits at will (as could Kdub Blue enabled Gunmen) and the only thing I think you have a right to really bitch about was the fact that the Cult was unannounced.

GG, MoI and Andy. One fewer obvscum during D3/4/5 and MoI would've been lynched. Ah well, maybe better luck next time.

Maybe, maybe not.

MoI, did you have any restrictions to recruiting? Were you really bulletproof? And are you making all of this up and you are actually having good ol' fun with your blue pal at town's cost so we can all have a laugh together after Kage has flipped black recruiter?

Yes, I had nebulous restrictions. I could recruit both Town and Scum, but was told the individuals with ‘great will’ could resist said recruitment. I’m guessing that meant the Red and Yellow Leaders and Agent Orange. The only recruit I missed was Kast N1.

The way the QT was set-up to prevent Scum shenanigans was that prior Scum could not post in the Dead QT and thus not directly out their partners. I enjoyed all the speculation that was done about how I couldn’t recruit Scum or even Power Roles as it helped keep the heat off looking for the Cult until it was too late.

Yes, I was Bulletproof. The Flash was my Mod provided fake-claim. I suspect that at least one kill got absorbed by my BP status. I’ll be very curious to see the Mod provide Night action run-down.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What? Cult wins with the town? Was that in black's win con or was that a last minute change by the mods? Mh, would still feel like a hollow victory, to be honest.

Um, I made the decision to recruit you both. Honestly you both played well enough in making it to endgame and helping kill all the nasty Yellow, Red and Orange scum for me that you deserve a victory.

Even if it is a Cult Victory as a minion of Scar

[MagnaofIllusion]

Dana I understand your thoughts and but I think having the Dead QT made public is important.

I'm OK with the Black Lantern QT being made public.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Request full role disclosure PLZ!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also a full record of Night Actions PLZ.

And a Pepporoni Pizza!

[MagnaofIllusion]

There was a life-time's worth of vitriol in that Dead QT. I'm actually very depressed after reading it.

I'd like the record to show I sent in two Town colors (Green and Blue) wanting to bask in Town glory.

What did I get for my efforts - A Black Cult Role PM.

But I made the most of it an have no regrets. Heck, at least I got to be honeslty Bulletproof for once.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yep, I carefully crafted the wording there. No-one bothered to re-read in the hustle and bustle of lynching scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

For future play, what should I have done with kdubs soft claim on me? Should I have demanded more information since the burden of proof was on him? I didn't want to out a PR as I thought that was the town thing to do but it really left me no wiggle room.

I'd say demanding more information is a requirement in your situation. From a Town perspective you can't sit on your hands and say "Well, I don't want to out a Power Role so I'm not going to challenge the incorrect claim of me being scum". And as scum if you are going down with the ship you owe it to your team to get as much information as possible out of the player for your Teammates.

Take a look at Day 1 of Kdub's Mini Theme Seinfeld Mafia. Maccavitylock claimed unspecified Meta evidence on me (I was a Town PR) and pressed that and only that as a reason to wagon me. I repeatedly requested he provide the Meta if he was going to attack me on 'Invisible evidence' grounds. As it turns out Mac was also Town who spotted my breadcrumb and was incorrectly trying to force a Day 1 PR claim because he thought I might be a Serial Killer based on my character.

I think had I not repeatedly challenged his assertion and called it out as baseless it probably would have been easy for the scum to go ahead and hop on the bad lynch. Not that it mattered because scum rolled us big-time since Town collectively played like our heads were wedged firmly up our backsides.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Mutliple 2011 Scummy Nominiations have been made in the 2010 thread based on this game.

FYI.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I liked how both scumMoI and scumKast had to lie about what happend to them on N4. MoI had to claim a killing attempt on Kast with a vig shot he never received and Kast had to claim a redirection on a killing attempt that never occured. Classic.

I didn't have to lie about that. From my QT conversation with Kdub I knew that he had targeted me and no-one else so I used the chance to incriminate Kast and gain some Blue Lantern driven Town cred.

Interestingly you can see that Kast's lie that Day confirmed to us that he was Sinestro if you read along in the Black Lantern QT.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Sure you had to lie. Kast claimed his redirected "kill" to KK first so you had to claim you received the gun and tried to kill him. That Kdub would back up the story is a no-brainer. Doesn't change the fact that you had to lie about the kill. Just thought it was amusing

Not correct. I certainly could have simply let Kdub come on and claim to have sent it to Kast and had it fail.

Also your timing is off. After Day opened I posted my claim to shooting Kast at 1959. Kast's first post that Day was at 1989. So I made my claim first and couldn't have been 'forced to lie' based on his claim.

[MagnaofIllusion]

RC, you need other people to review your game lol. And I would have agreed that they should have been able to figure out that there was a cult. BUT YOU TOLD THEM ALL THE SCUM FACTIONS. If they had spent time at the beginning of the game speculating about who the scum were, they very well might have jumped to the conclusion of a cult. But they didn't, because you had already told them.

Gandalf for some who didn't

EVEN PLAY IN THE GAME

you sure are worked up about it.

This has already be discussed to death in the Dead QT and already here.

You aren't doing any service to anyone by playing 'Jump on RC because it's cool'.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Then why didn't you post in the scum QT in the night in question? Was it tactical lurking?

Wait ... how would you tactically lurk in your own scum QT? I see what you did there ...

Sensfan I think it could be said you stopped playing the game when you ran your rather foolish gambit about not getting the role you wanted.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna I think it could be said that the co-Mod starting interfering with all his PMs about how brilliant the gambit was, and that I could do this and this to make it better.

So when the Mods think you are playing 'brilliantly' they have good judgement but when it suits you they are morons?

Yeah, that the sound of someone who can't accept any responsability for their own actions.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I just don't see why RC can't just admit he screwed up.

Stop posting in the thread.

I don't care how 'angry' you got when reading along.

You've NOT BEEN AFFECTED AT ALL BY ANYTHING INVOVLED.

All you are doing is trolling. If you don't want to end up being Chesskid part 2 stop it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

dana is still planning a sequel Brightest Day mafia.

Consider this an offical Pre-In!