Open 272 - Near-Vanilla (Over!)

[Archer]

/confirm

[Archer]

Obvious chainsaw, come on town let's lynch nacho and then chaotic neutrality, never seen scum so obvious.

I dont see it Please elaborate on these obvious reasons, for both players

In the meantime, for being the only one with a 3 letter name!
VOTE: Egg

[Archer]

Gah, so far it seems like the biggest cause of commotion is some poor English from brokenscraps. And when I first asked about it, I was ignored. Scum points for broken scraps!

[Archer]

Archer do you have anything else to add to the convo?

I've read everything (again!) and am beginning to wander about the poor reasoning from AntB. Sure, perhaps it was a honest mistake, but he is sticking with it, which makes me suspicious. The fact that brokenscraps still avoids me gives him some more scum points too.

Also drmyshottyizsik has done minimal hunting imo, its mostly one liners. And they usually aren't even that useful. Scum points for drmyshottyizsik!

Then finally, my hatred for the inactives I await explanations from all of them.

[Archer]

Gah, really did not expect things to develop so quickly. I will make a proper effort to be more involved.

Archer, why are you giving all of these scum points, yet your vote continues to be on "the only one with a three letter name".

Because you had still not made an appearance at that stage. And when you finally did make an appearance you failed to answer my question, and you throw out questions everywhere, perhaps an attempt to find out who the town want to go after, and simply jump in with the crowd? Thats my feeling anyway.

Archer - Archer has added little to nothing of the convo. Why is AntB sticking to something scummy? Why keep a vote on a random vote at this point if you reread the game? As for the inactive comment well pot you are the kettle calling them out.

As I said, really didnt expect the game to pick up so fast. The AntB saga, I think the whole chainsaw thing is pushing it. Of course there are times when it has merit, but so early D1 I dont think so. The fact that he has refused to back down raises some flags. But at the same time, I know I wouldnt push that hard as scum. The random vote for Egg has now turned to a proper vote until I'm convinced someone else is more scummy, or that Egg is town.

And after all that more posts popped up, sigh. BUT!...

Players who shout their suspicions can be good for the town, but as there isn't that much shouting I kept quiet. Shouters get NKd if they get close to the mark and abused if not.

The last post from AntB has got bells ringing for me! Sounds like he is afraid to die, but as a townie, I dont care if I die as long as I have made my suspicions clear and the remaining townies can carry on... I actually think coupled with the rest thats reason enough for my vote

VOTE: AntB

[Archer]

Thats a really poor defence. There are a few reasons why you would not want to draw attention to yourself as a townie but you have gone for the self pity defence which is not good at all. My vote is going to stick for now. Also your post seems wrong somehow. First, you say you'll self hammer. Next you say that action would help scum. Next you say your death will provide nothing useful (meh). Really really confused. ACtually, the more I think about it the more it actually reads as a slip -

and even as scum if I feel it will throw the trail off my scumbuddies.

[Archer]

AntB - you addressed every point I made in my last post, except for the part where I highlight what I see as a scum slip. Why is that?

I sense archer not reading properly... time to unzip methinks.

Whats up with the veiled insult? No need for that surely?

Also your post seems wrong somehow. First, you say you'll self hammer. Next you say that action would help scum. Next you say your death will provide nothing useful (meh). Really really confused

First, you say you'll self hammer.
Only if it will:
(as town) provide information leading to the capture of scum

(as scum) throw the town of the trail of my scum buddies.

Next you say that action would help scum.
No I don't.

Note how the highlighted parts contradict each other, which is what I was pointing out earlier. You managed to contradict yourself twice in the exact same way! You admit a self hammer could help scum, and one sentence later say a self hammer would not help scum.

@andrew94 - Yes, it could be bussing, or as scum hunting. Any particular reason you think its the former? I like it when people give reasons - it means they are willing to risk something. And I suspect people who do not give reasons, since those people give themselves an easy out when nobody agrees, and an easy in when someone else provides the reasons.

[Archer]

Nobody else bothered andrew94 seems to be a bit too conservative about giving any reasons for anything?

I noticed and bothered And I have not yet had a reply on the matter from Andrew94, completely ignoted my question. Care to comment now Andrew94?

[Archer]

Vote Archer

His vote on AntB stroke me as particularly bad. When I read it, it seemed like one of the worst cases of scum bussing that I've ever seen. This is my best lead for now.

Another one who does not give reasons. Again I'll say, I think people who say things without reasons backing them up are looking for the input from other people first, for approval from the town. And that way you get to stay safe. People who give reasons are putting themself out there, risking themselves, since it is a lot more difficult to back off once you've laid out your entire case. So any reason you used the former, slightly scummy method?

@andrew94 - if you were referring to my comment, its basically the same situation as above, and it refers to this post

[Archer]

I did give a reason, weak voting, which is in my opinion the best way to nail scum, as voting motivation is the main difference in behavior between town and scum. I admit that I did not develop enough, though.

In this post, you say your vote for Egg is now serious, yet you immediately, in the very same post, switch your vote to the wagon-of-the-day for a reason I absolutely disagree with. AntB has never looked to me like he was afraid to die. This vote looked exactly like what (bad) scum would do to score an easy lynch while not being the one hammering. Also, you used "I" in that unneeded explanation, as if you were town, which is a trick I used before as scum.

You simply said it was the worst case of scum bussing you have ever seen (agreeing with andrew94 basically). You gave no reason why you actually thought it was bussing, and simply referred to my entire post all at once (again, looks liek you wanted others to do the thinking for you). Only later do you realise that bussing is an incorrect reason to vote for me, and then later again come up with other reasons.

Yes, in that post I clarified my vote for Egg. The switch of my vote was because just before I posted I checked to see of there were any new developments, and there was. One of the things I saw was what looked to me like a scum slip. Is an apparent scum slip a "weak reason to vote?" So I simply added to my post, otherwise I would be seen as ignoring the questions asked of me. And thats something I dont like people doing to me, so I always try to answer everyones questions, or otherwise be a hypocrite. Reading back I see there could be an alternate way to read the post from AntB that made me vote, but my first instinct was to see it as a scum slip, and I'm sticking with that for now.

Moving on, even though this may turn into OMGUS.. Nacho, each of your votes seems to have been preceeded by the town switching targets. AntB was popular, you go there. Now many people are suspicious of me, and your vote wanders to me. What exactly was this "feeling" you were referring to. Seems like a lot of people are putting things out there while being vague enough to let other people do the work!

[Archer]

Ok, I understand why you guys suspect me, but the honest truth is I'm simply responding to everything directed at me, as well as pointing out things I find suspect. Seems I need to be more selective in future. I'm going to re-evaluate my position so give me some time to read through everything again. I still think my points are valid but either I've misread the posts they relate to, or I've not explained myself properly.

Just some quick answers
farside - I was responding to another post, I did not randomly come out and say "hey look at me, I'm answering questions"
smashbro - I dont vote everytime anyone does something scummy. That would be chaos and not conducive to actually finding scum

[Archer]

Alright, been through it all again. Lets hope I can get my ideas onto the page properly. Apologies for the wall of text and lack of links

D1 starts with broken going after nacho, and I now think posts 32 and 34 show a poor defence from nacho. I first ignored this since broken wasnt replying to me and so I focused on broken too much.

48 - nacho claims he did confirm as soon as he saw the PM, yet broken says nacho had been online inbetween. BUT post 102 from nacho seems to contradict this "No. I got on the site despite having work to do, so I posted once and then got back to work. It's a nice policy not to check PMs when you have work to do because PMs always lead to other things." Did he not see the PM first time round? He also later admits only one new PM was in his inbox (107). Something just doesnt sit right with the explanation.

Between all this Egg makes a strange entrance (88) - questions everyone except nacho and votes smash. His initial explanation for the vote seems lacking, and the follow up (123) is too. To me it read like a made up story - I think its mostly due to the large amount of repitition.

126, post from nacho. Read like a heavily meta based attempt to discredit AntB. The use of President Kennedy all in caps also does not sit right with me. I cant quite explain it right now, but will think on it and try again tomorrow

156, lord_hur you admit bussing was the wrong word, but why did you not question andrew over this (139)

189, nacho's latest post. There are two lies in there. First, I did question/comment on the first tell broken had on you (40). I also did try to explain my vote to lord_hur (even though I failed miserably and now see my error).

So basically I agree fully with the nacho wagon but am holding off on voting until I hear from nacho why he lied, or why he thinks what he said is the truth. And yes, I know I'll be questioned about jumping on the popular wagon, and trying to score town points should nacho flip scum, etc. Thats my own fault for playing so bad earlier. The only other person that stands out to me is Egg, I really dont think there has been anything of value in his posts.

UNVOTE

[Archer]

ARCHER: WHY DID YOU VOTE ANTB AT THE TIME WHEN THE CASE YOU HAD MADE IT SOUND THAT EGG WAS MORE SCUMMY?.

Post 177. I think I already answered this, but quoted lord_hur since he asked something similar. Does that answer it?

Nacho - So you had time to post, but not to read a PM? Thats the part of the story that doesnt sit well with me. Did you make a post in a game thread?
Basing things on a persons meta could be bad since people can and do change their playstyle regardless of alignment. AntB seems to fall into this category, so you are essentially arguing based on a 50/50 (if you're lucky and he only has two playstyles) scenario.
I've tried to figure out what it is about that all caps post and honestly I cant put my finger on it yet, sorry. All I can honestly say is that it felt wrong to me.

lord_hur It was not an attack. It was a bit suspect that 1)You used the same term as andrew94 2)You admit your fault, but then dont question andrew94 who brought it up as well. I'm not sure what to do with this info just yet since I do not recall any other links between the two of you. Your reply feels town like, but I am keeping this subtle link in mind. Come to think of it, I did question andrew94 on it first time round but was ignored. Andrew94, care to comment on it now? I'm referring to post 139, and my reply 143.

Hmmm... perhaps only a coincidence but lord_hur voted for me quite soon after andrew94 ignored me. After this I admit I got distracted and didnt follow up (for the second time) on andrew94. This makes two subtle links. I'll definately be keeping a close eye on what goes on between andrew and lord_hur.

[Archer]

farside - I thought I had spotted a scum slip. Thats as simple as it gets.

[Archer]

V/LA until Wednesday 24th

. Deadline at work got moved forward

[Archer]

I'm back, deadline met. I'm not so sure anymore of nacho, just doesnt feel right. But egg, with loads of empty promises and a single "useful" post that is essentially a spray and pray effort does not sit right with me. I've got my eye on bella for essentially doing the same but I think it may be due to having to replace into a game.

VOTE: Egg

[Archer]

That said I'm going back to voting Nacho
He is posting just find around MS and continues to actively lurk in this game. I'm betting he is hoping we ignore him and he can skate by.

unvote:
vote: Nacho

I went to follow up on that and you are right, he's made 15 posts in the last two days (26+27 Jan) but not a single one here. That is lurking a its best. So nacho, what reason do you have for being active in other games, but not feeling the need to scum hunt in here even a tiny little bit?

[Archer]

I'm intentionally lurking at the moment, actually.

I've pegged two scum so far, I'm just wondering whether farside is the third or not.

Intentionally lurking... hmmm... Is it just me or does this have more of an advantage if you are playing scum? Sure as town you may get to analyse people without having to defend yourself, but even those attacks against you can provide more information, and hopefully a better decision on who to lynch. More info = better for town, provided you make the correct conclusions of course. You deliberately putting yourself in a position where town gets less info is not helpful.

[Archer]

I'm sticking with my vote on Egg. I've gone back and forth on other people and its reached a point where I need new info again to actually make up my mind cause I'm going round in circles in my head. But Egg has remained a suspect throughout so I'm going with my gut.

[Archer]

And yes, I know I'll be questioned about jumping on the popular wagon, and trying to score town points should nacho flip scum, etc. Thats my own fault for playing so bad earlier. The only other person that stands out to me is Egg, I really dont think there has been anything of value in his posts.

Thinking about how this will make you look suspicious is not a protown frame of mind.

AHA! Found something in Archer's ISO!
TOWN

Colour me confused. Are you saying my statement is not protown thinking, yet it makes you think I am town? Seemingly contradictory statements always set off warning bells for me so I must ask

What would Egg's flip tell you if he flipped scum or town about the rest of the players in the game?

Right now, probably nothing seeing how he has spoken so little. It will be interesting to see what reasons people give if they decide to switch to Egg however, so something may come of that. But I can see why you would rather have me vote for other people then since other people may have links already established and hence the flip provides more info. Besides the seemingly contradictory statement above and the interesting find from lord_hur I have not seen anything that may make me change my vote.

[Archer]

Deadline is

tomorrow

. Wish I had time to catch up, but its not looking likely. We should get a deadline lynch together though. I'll be checking in once in a while to see if my vote is needed, but I don't expect to have more than maybe ten minutes at a time.

This really screams scum to me. Absolute useless town is possibile as well, but I'm leaning to the former. Having said that I dont see anyone else switching their vote here. I'll review the two major wagons (Batt and nacho) so that we dont get a no lynch. My vote will likely end on Batt since nacho is coming off more like town lately, but this needs a full reread.

[Archer]

My reread has not gleened anything new. I still have a stronger feeling that nacho is town than Batt so thats where my vote is going unless we get an extension.

[Archer]

Not seeing any extension and I need to sleep
VOTE: Battousai

[Archer]

Would you, as AntB-scum, in the situation scum are now, risk confirming someone who pointed you as most obvious scum in his last twilight post ?

My thinking in those kind of situations is that if you leave the player alive they are almost guaranteed to continue the case againt you (ie nacho would keep pushing against AntB). Whereas if you kill Nacho, it goes from 90% chance of AntB lynch down to 50-60%. Plus you get rid of a strong/confirmed (most people had him down as a townie iirc) town player. And if AntB is town it keeps the chances of his lynch high enough that mafia can jump on the wagon with relative ease. Win/win/win if you are mafia imo. Doesnt make AntB scum though, a reread is in order

[Archer]

One, not checking/posting in a thread when you have posted elsewhere and then claiming a forgotten deadline doesnt fit right. (This is pre nacho asking him where he is)
Two, if nacho indeed saw you online at the time he asked where your vote was, and you then not correcting lord_hur implies you were in lurkerville
Three, perhaps you got beaten to the punch and did want to come clean wrt Nacho asking where your vote is. So that last part doesn't set off any warning bells my side yet.

[Archer]

Feels like we are all waiting on AntB + smash to make an appearance. I know this to be true for me at least. Sigh... Not seeing anything else really stand out right now so I'm not going to try make mountains out of molehills

[Archer]

[*]Archer, when you say that you're waiting for AntB and sotS to make an appearance, is it because you believe either or both to be scum?

They are both high on the suspect list, so yes

Also dont like how AntB promised a so called big reveal but then came forward with nothing. Will have to see what the future holds.

Andrews weird voting reasons (or perhaps better put lack thereof) are... well weird. What exactly did you mean wrt looker and "not goodness?"

[Archer]

farside I'm trying to stand back a little so that I dont manufacture reasons like that game. Made me completely lose sight of actual scum and being so loud and attacking made things way too easy for scum. Well thats the lesson I learned at least. I find your case a bit reaching - making a meta call based on a single previous game.

Noticed AntB still hasnt made much of an appearance, but has been active in several other games. Why are you not more active in a game that currently has you as tied for most scummy?

[Archer]

@AntB - spam attack that allowed you to post in several other games but not this one? Bit strange to say the least

@looker - you're on the fence wrt Egg? Sure, he may be a rather useless townie due to lack of, well, everything, but he did out scum when batt false RC'd. So how can you be unsure of him? Surely if Egg is lying then after the batt lynch the real real jailkeeper would've come forward so that we could likely lynch another scum?

[Archer]

@Egg and others - The vote on batt was at a time when a no lynch was not beyond the realm of possibilty and both wagons had equal (3) votes. As stated I chose what I saw to be the greater of three evils at the time and went with it. Also didnt have anything to say after I said I would do a reread cause most of it had already been said by others, hence didnt give anything new. Basically Egg, if you had a cat, you would lose it.

@bella - I find it really strange that you would agree (with farside) on what I term a really poor reason to suspect me - meta based suspicions that come from a single game. I'd like to know how you justify this. Trying to figure you out I noticed you often agree with farside so far D2. Not the most scummy thing, after all a good case is a good case, but when you start agreeing with (imo) poor reasons thats when I get interested.
Examples are (original farside first, bella echo second)
476 : 478
524 : 525
Granted the last one is lame but I felt like going for 3 examples.

[Archer]

Just because you have a small sample size doesn't invalidate the data. In this case, the fact that you've played a better game demonstrates that you're capable of playing in a more productive manner and thus you lose the newbish excuse for your play thusfar.

This really made me lol. First off, its the conclusion that may or may not get invalidated, not the data. And with a small sample size, zero accurate conclusions can be made. To claim otherwise is silly. I also do not recall using the newb excuse, so why have you brought it up?

@AntB - you have played very differently when compared to D1. D1 you were not afraid of coming out all guns blazing, D2 you seem to be happy coasting along despite all the votes. However, RL does indeed get in the way sometimes. I'm 50/50 on whether this is truly the case in this instance.

I want to remind people in case AntBscum tries to fake claim what he said earlier in the game.

I will happily die (and even self hammer) if my flip will provide sufficient information, and even as scum if I feel it will throw the trail off my scumbuddies. However, my death now will provide nothing but a lot of "meh!"

@farside - why the reminder of that post? Plus its taken out of context imo. The way I read it it serves as a reason for you to push the AntB lynch no matter what AntB says from now on. What were your intentions with it?

lord_hur - I dont quite get how you got to those two possibilities you listed (since I drew a much different conclusion). Please explain?

[Archer]

Lord_hur - your rephrasing helped me see what you are getting at and I think they are possibilities. My point was that farside is trying to corner AntB leaving him with no way out. From the original post I can see no town friendly way to explain it.

farside - Both ways have their pros and cons and I would've gone a different route and so I still dont like what you did, but I do understand now why you reminded us all of that little piece.

looker - the vote on lord_hur is for...? I think lord_hur was justified at that stage switching his vote. Your vote seems out of the blue

[Archer]

Oh, I'm holding things up, I feel so important Moving on

farside - I think that having 8 town vs 1 mafia (D3) is good enough odds, especially considering the 50/50 chance of scum being able to NK either PR. Absolute worst case the way I see it is if AntB is scum there is 1 left. That scum targets doc, JK targets someone else. If that someone else is town then D3 we have 2 confirmed + 6 town vs 1 scum. If JK magically hits scum well then its game over. And all this of course also hinges on whether or not the real doctor would've actually spoken up, which is certainly not a given. I personally would not have done what you did. Your claim that you were afraid you would not be online though is valid, and hence although I still dont like it, I cant see anything inherently scummy in it.

I'm also withholding my vote for now as I'm curious as to what SotS replacement might have to say. Otherwise AntB does look to be where my vote will fall, the claim didnt do anything for me and I still dont quite buy the too busy act since his other games do not seem to have suffered

[Archer]

She's (farside) also WIFOMing, discussing potential claims and scenarios and basically fuelling the distraction from town-beneficial conversation.

Farside was asked to explain it all, hardly brought it up herself. This is a big reach if you are really using it as part of your reasoning

Well aren't you the hypocritical scum man. First it's wrong to meta you and aparently your lack of case means nothing here. Then it's wrong for me to miss a meta that you OMGUS people? Seriously this is your best case.

I have to agree with AntB here, you cant cherry pick the parts of meta that suit you. Having said that I dont think (at least in the case of AntB) that you are only using meta. So basically it looks like another reach from AntB

[Archer]

So, exactly why has the AntB wagon stalled? There are enough people who aren't voting for him who agree that there's scumminess there. What's the problem? How can I help you lynch scum?

I'm waiting to see what the SotS replacement has to say and am in no rush for a lynch. He/she may have something new to add, and I'd rather wait a day or two or three to hear it. This is the second time you have tried to push this along. Why are you in such a rush?

[Archer]

@Archer

Farside was asked to explain it all, hardly brought it up herself. This is a big reach if you are really using it as part of your reasoning

Looking back, no she wasn't. She brought it up herself.

Then you didnt look properly. Farside made the post about you cant claim any PR (591). Then lord_hur questions it (595) as well as myself (597). Next lord_hur goes into the hypothetical situations (610) and only then does farside bring more hypothetical situations in. So farside didnt bring it up herself but was responding to queries and other posts.

[Archer]

Wagon has lost moment, he's really scummy, he's made his claim and confirmed data dtrumps potential data.

Confirmed data

plus

potential data trumps only confirmed data. More data/info is better. I will wait for the replacements. There is no rush.

[Archer]

Yay, Egg declared that I am scum once more, it must be true If you weren't a big part in the scum lynch yesterday I would be all over you, but there is no point arguing with you since you are pretty much 99.999% confirmed town and I am still not sure why you actually think I'm scum. Especially after your whole post focuses on other people. Unless you're still on the bussing claim which is just plain wrong. Go look back, it was still 50/50 between nacho/batt and I chose the one who looked least scummy to me (haven't I said this before??). Pretty sure it could've gone either way at that stage.

[Archer]

So farside, after wanting me to be more active, and me becoming more active, your're back to calling me a lurker? Nice! Way to go in finding the posts that suit you. I've also been wondering why you keep saying you suspect me, but never vote me. Looks to me like you needed a wagon to form first. Have fun explaining why you wanted a townie dead if you make it to tomrrow

As for what gave me the nacho town feel, I honestly have no clue. Thats why its called a feeling. I'm sure thats what I said initially as well.

[Archer]

I notice your defense with people who accuses you is either defensive or omgusish

Just had to come back to this first. My defenses are defensive? Whoa! What a revelation. Do you usually build such weak cases? Perhaps you could elaborate on why defending yourself defensively is scummy? Should be a good read.

Onto the rest, way back when the case against Egg was valid. Scummy entrance + nothing useful = useless townie or scum. Up until he became confirmed JK just about everyone had similar thoughts. Why did you omit this part in your "Check Archers crap reasoning" section? Searching for the posts that suit your agenda again by any chance?

[Archer]

Today your vote is where again?

So you would have preferred if I hammered AntB like a week ago then? I had the opportunity. Could easily have done it. You seem to be missing a heck of a lot with all your skimming for posts that make your case.

[Archer]

There is more then one scum left in the game. If AntB is scum in your view who is his scum partner would you think and why?

Dont know. I cant find any obvious links between AntB and anyone else, most likely since half the game is awol incl AntB who has been absent most of this day

VLA until Monday

[Archer]

@farside, yes I have played one game before the noob game I played here.

@Archer : Everyone is wrong at one point or another, so find a target, sink your teeth in it and vote (well, for a decent reason). Your passivity will contribute to your side's undoing if you persist. Oh, and cut the sarcastic remarks, they have no value to us and anger everyone.

No offence, but if my sarcastic remarks end up making other people angry then thats their problem, not mine. Angry people are more prone to making mistakes so I'll use it wherever and whenever I like.

@brokenscraps, yes I do have other scum suspects, but due to the lack of activity we've had the last few days it been difficult to establish links between almost everyone.

Now back to farside - post 682 and your reply 684. How did you come to the conclusion of me saying Egg is 99.999% confirmed town is an OMGUS post? Also please explain your reasons for voting me, as I understand it you have the alleged bussing of Batt (when we all know it was 50/50 at that stage), meta based on a single game (cause people never change their style right?) and alleged OMGUS/defensiveness (both of which are not inherantly scummy things to do). 684 you also, once again, ask what gave me a more town feel on nacho. By that point I had answered that specific question at least three times. Why ask again? If I say it a fourth time will it finally sink in?
Post 689 - I feel I defended myself with valid points, but you choose not to address them at all and instead label my as bitchy. Why? Your next post (693) changes the subject nicely as well, so I'll ask again, would you have preferred I hammer AntB when I had the chance?

[Archer]

1) your response to Egg came off snarky, with an almost I would vote you or call you scum if I could. It's very mild but I felt it reading the post.
2) You haven't made a decent case of any day 1. Your not scum hunting, your following others. Finally knowing you played before means that your lack of read and not being able to see anything scum in anyone but lurkers is a big red flag of scum.
I never mentioned bussing. But you said yourself you just had a "feeling" nacho was town, but got pissy with anyone else who used the word gut or feeling.
3) You want to point out those 3 or 4 times you that you felt Nacho was town? I asked for what you saw that gave you that feeling. You had nothing but gut as a response
4) No you haven't defended yourself well. You get pissy when I mention meta saying it's one game, but doesn't explain why you can't make a case here. Why you can't name more then one scum or why all of day 1 all you focused on was lurkers.
I didn't ask for a hammer. I asked who you were voting for? When you stated your question about the hammer, I asked about who else is scum. You still have no one else you find scummy.

1) Not almost call Egg scum, I would call him scum if it was not for the JK claim in that post that is being referred to because when weak reasons are brought forward I see that as scummy. How does "I would be all over you (Egg)" only give you a mild indication of this?
2) I honestly cant believe you are still pushing the whole meta based on one single game thing. I really have nothing more to say on this. If you cant fathom how basing a players entire playstyle on one single game is faulty then there is no point arguing. Plus, you dont even know how I played in that one single game that I played before coming to this forum, and yet you are making conclusions based on it? Please tell me exactly how with one game here, and one somewhere else that you have no clue of, you come to my current playstyle as being a scum read? Manufacture away!
3) You misread my reply - I stated in posts 685, 682, 584 and the original 443 why I went batt over nacho. I did not say that I had a town read on nach, just that he was more likely to be town vs batt. But you did not answer me - why are you asking this again when I have given the answer at least 3 times?
4) All of day one I focused on lurkers? Have you forgotten that I went after nacho too? You yourself said this in post 708, a mere 10 posts ago. Contradiction! You also forget posts like 541 where I do name other suspects. Fits in with my view of you in which you manufacture/selective read stuff to get people to look scummy. You have also still not answered me - would you have preffered I hammer AntB? I know you didnt ask for the hammer, I'm asking if you would have preferred it.

[Archer]

2) I honestly cant believe you are still pushing the whole meta based on one single game thing. I really have nothing more to say on this. If you cant fathom how basing a players entire playstyle on one single game is faulty then there is no point arguing. Plus, you dont even know how I played in that one single game that I played before coming to this forum, and yet you are making conclusions based on it? Please tell me exactly how with one game here, and one somewhere else that you have no clue of, you come to my current playstyle as being a scum read? Manufacture away!

If you can scum hunt in one game. You can't say you can't do it another game. It's BS excuses

Remind me, how many scum did I actually find in that game? Zero? So how is finding zero scum an indication that I know how to hunt and what to look for, and that I shouldnt change something about how I play in order to be a better townie?

3) why are you asking this again when I have given the answer at least 3 times?

Again your not saying why you found Nacho town over Batt in any statement you made. I wanted an answer to why. You don't have an answer.As for the lurkers? Your right there was Nacho, I forgot, it's not a contradiction. You made your case, you never voted for him and instead cast a vote on a weak read here instead Why?

I've given the same answer 4 or 5 times now, and you only figure out now that I was going with my gut? Even at that post you point out here I clearly stated it was a feeling. But reading back did make me see something useful, namely that batt had not interacted with you at all between your vote and unvote (post 328), and yet his defense was so awesome you unvoted.

First I didn't say you should hammer AntB. Stop putting words in my mouth. I asked you where your vote was.

My vote would've been on AntB when he was L-1. Hence, I asked you would you have preffered if I hammered him just so that I can say I have voted? Its a pretty straightforward question, why do you keep avoiding it and making like I'm saying something completely different?

I do like though how you put scum next to my name each time as if that makes it all true. Afraid your points wont speak for themselves?

I'm almost certain Archer is scum as well.

Finally, how did you go from labelling me as scum to "almost certain?" Heck, in post 721 you even have me higher on the list than AntB, so why are you voting for AntB and not me?

From my side it looks like you have been pulling any and every possible reason against me and putting a weak scum spin on it. Your latest posts also look like someone who is trying to appease the town.
VOTE: Farside22

[Archer]

Again, Farside, why were you voting AntB post 727 (who is lower on your suspect list) instead of me (second on your list)? And then what changed between that vote and your vote for me in which AntB is now town? Too much hopping, too little reasoning (that I can see anyway).

@Andrew, waiting on this, where is the "more" you were talking about? The next two posts from you were mod requests to update the OP

will post more when i get home

@MOD

bella + brokenscraps require a (cattle) prod please

[Archer]

Seems like farside has me on ignore. Great way to prove your innocence, I wonder how you would react had I been ignoring you? Moving on

Andrew, is that the "I will post more" post? I was hoping for more. Looking at it the third time though it has a fishing feel to it. I would like to know the reason why you want to know how Egg is aiming his JK?

Oh, I just thought about something. Actually, knowing Egg's target can help us a bit. As there are 2 scums left, the kill action has a 50% chance to have been done by either. So, the person he JKed last night has a 50% less chance to be scum, because, if that person is scum, there is a 50% chance that his/her action was blocked. So, if he targetted one of today's suspects, I think he should speak up.

I really dont want to get into a stats101 war but its not 50%. Whoever he jailed still has the exact same odds of being scum (±18%) or town (±82%) as someone who was not jailed since there are two scum left and we did have a NK last night. If there had not been a NK or we only had one scum left it would be a different story.

[Archer]

Sorry for the triple post: Archer I put you on ignore because your repeating yourself and still making the same excuses for how you can post a case in one game but not in another. I don't believe you and all your comments is I changed my way and meta is stupid (in a nutshell).
If there is something important that is not about the above ^ that you feel I need to answer please repeat the question, because frankly the whole I changed that's why I'm not able to made a case is complete and utter bull shit.

I'm sorry for repeatedly answering your repeated accusations/questions. Really, this is hilarious, you calling me out for repeating myself when I only did it because you were repeating yourself. Would you prefer I put you on ignore too? Oh look, you repeat yourself again! But dont worry, I wont answer for the 6th time, wouldnt want you to ignore me again.

@Archer: I recall without looking (No,I'm not going back and reading right now) that you also are bitching repeatedly about asking you a question about Nacho and your town read. When someone gets pissy about others who use gut to explain things and then decides to use it based on nothing inbetween, I'm going to call that pretty darn scummy.

And here are my questions to you that you ignored.

Finally, how did you go from labelling me as scum to "almost certain?" Heck, in post 721 you even have me higher on the list than AntB, so why are you voting for AntB and not me?

Again, Farside, why were you voting AntB post 727 (who is lower on your suspect list) instead of me (second on your list)? And then what changed between that vote and your vote for me in which AntB is now town? Too much hopping, too little reasoning (that I can see anyway).

One new question, pretend that I'm town (since you obv think I'm not) and that I get lynched today. What suspects would you then have?

[Archer]

Farside you ignored the last lifeline I threw at you. So I see no reason to switch my vote.

Looker, WTF is up with your vote???

[Archer]

Farside you ignored the last lifeline I threw at you. So I see no reason to switch my vote.

Reallly? This question here:

One new question, pretend that I'm town (since you obv think I'm not) and that I get lynched today. What suspects would you then have?

My response is still the same. YOUR NOT READING THE GAME I DECLARE YOU SCUM WITH CONSP. YOUR LINK HAS YOU NUMBER 2 BECAUSE OF THAT.

You can keep repeating questions all you want. The answer doesn't change because you don't read it.

Thats the first time I've asked that?? Anyway, I see ZERO reason to unvote someone who is unable to even entertain the notion of being wrong. I am going to laugh my head off when I flip town, I just really hope you're still alive the day after. I would actually prefer you vote me off now so that I dont have to stand your incessant accusations anymore.

@Archer: Are you male or female? Serious question, please answer.

Yes. You ignore me, I ignore you. Fun for everyone

[Archer]

@Bella, what did you want to demonstrate with those vote counts? You didnt actually come to any conclusions. So the only thing I can conclude from it is that you want to be seen as town since you put yourself in the 0% pro scum voting group

looker non reader could..

More like 'looker memory loss', since I pointed out Egg being the JK once before to him and he withdrew his suspicions.

[Archer]

This week has been too long and I'm epicly tired. Will make a proper effort on Saturday when I feel alive again.

[Archer]

I am feeling alive once more! On to serious things...

I wanted to summarise confirmed and accurate data. The fact that my vote has been used in a manner that fails to achieve scum goals is irrelevent to the exercise.

Fair enough

farside, whats up with the brokenscraps vote due to the vote summary? For once I may actually agree with you (also feel free to keep your reasons until BS responds)
Egg, why magua and not brokenscraps?
Looker, if you knew Egg was JK, why vote for him? I cant think of a single pro town reason to do so. Right now its put me in a WIFOM universe, which doesnt help anything. Saying it stopped you from being NK'd is also more WIFOM and not a solid reason for me.
Andrew and farside: andrew what conclusions would you draw from a antb/farside lynch? Farside, your response to this came off like you trying to divert attention. If andrew can draw conclusions that are backed with solid reasons then a lynch on either of you would be useful.
Last, I checked to see if I thought andrew was bussing end D1, and found this -

farside, im not sure whats wrong with the mod pm, but i sent it again

Am I blind?? I cant find the post in which farside directed a question at andrew
Also picked up on

Well considering mafia tend to out roles and Egg is newb I'm going with Batt lying scum.

I thought you had checked him out before the game and hence would know he is not newb? I do also recall lord_hur shared consps suspicions along these same lines. Quite a good reason to get rid of him as mafia. And (in my case anyway) I would not have remembered this point had I not gone and reread a whole bunch of stuff.

After all that I'm thinking either AntB or farside is scum. Will be very surprised if its neither. BS and looker are also in there but need to hear them out first

[Archer]

Looker, if you knew Egg was JK, why vote for him? I cant think of a single pro town reason to do so. Right now its put me in a WIFOM universe, which doesnt help anything. Saying it stopped you from being NK'd is also more WIFOM and not a solid reason for me.
Andrew and farside: andrew what conclusions would you draw from a antb/farside lynch? Farside, your response to this came off like you trying to divert attention. If andrew can draw conclusions that are backed with solid reasons then a lynch on either of you would be useful.

Looker and andrew, still waiting...

That counts as a response. It's a pretty interesting one, too.

Ellaborate

magua, if I flip town, would you be able to make any deductions about who the scum are?

Its AntB or farside, havent changed my mind on that since last time. If farside is town he'll be way more useful to keep around imo hence I'd prefer to see AntB flip. Convince me otherwise.

Egg - lol, back to me I see. I told you before, you'll be losing that cat.

[Archer]

@archer, what conclusions can i draw from farside/antb lynch

well firstly, i have been sus of antb since foreveer and also we dont out another vt/ or the doc. etc

That doesnt tell me what conclusions you can make, just your reasons for wanting an AntB lynch

@Looker, what I currently understand is that you voted Egg to survive the night. Is that correct, is there anything I'm missing?

[Archer]

@archer, what do you mean what conclusions. we get his flip

I mean, if AntB flips town, would you be able to get a better town/scum read on anyone else. Same questions for if AntB flips scum

Dont get magua's vote either, other than perhaps buddying up to Egg. I was hoping he'd be able to make some conclusions on my flip in which case I wouldnt mind too much being lynched. But if he is going to learn sweet nothing from it then there is no point, unless he is scum of course. Farside, you ignored this question of mine D2, so I'll ask again, what would you learn from my flip

[Archer]

If you don't believe me read the sig. I relish is seeing people being wrong.

Oh the

EPIC

irony.

The recent posts here look like deja vu of Conspiracy vs Farside, even me vs farside to a certain extent.

VOTE: Farside

Looker - Egg is not 99.99% confirmed JK?? Please tell me then why the real JK has not stepped forward yet to lynch another scum?? That scenario would leave only one scum meaning the JK could confirm townies each night, or with a bit of luck find the final scum. Come on, this is the 3rd of 4th time you're pushing this, its getting ridiculous and making me think you're scum.

[Archer]

Dont have a lot of time right now, but will make an effort later tonight, or tomorrow morning latest. Two things did however stick out

It's clearly plain miscommunication because we lynched ConSpiracy and he flipped town, yet a case was made against him for not recieving a town PM, which he clearly did.

I lean towards farside being scum at the moment, although there's no real certainty behind it. Scum partner would be one of AntB, Magua and you, in that order of preference.

"we" lynched conspiracy? You were not even on the consp wagon. Who is this "we?"

Looker your JK scenarios do not work. If Egg is not the JK, then the real one must step forward, letting us lynch scum, leaving only one scum left. Then the real JK confirms town each night or finds scum. All the other plans you are coming up with are far far inferior. Why you keep going on about this who knows?!

[Archer]

Unvote, Vote: Magua

Mafia is Looker+Farside. But lets lynch useless town first.

This is madness. Complete and utter madness. 9 left, 2 of which are scum. One useless townie is not going to stop anything.

We as in the town. I don't understand why you have a problem with that?

Read it as "my scum partner and I lynched Consp yesterday, mwahaha." But I got nothing else on you to make me think you're scum. Guess I would've phrased it differently hence it stuck out.

[Archer]

Apologies for my inactivity, it was pure laziness on my part. Will make up for it over the weekend

Bella - its the way I read it so its the way I explained it. I was paying attention. That you were so much on the opposite side of that lynch fits almost too perfectly. Just means I still need to keep an eye on you.

I thought Conspiracy was scum.

I think Conspiracy was

town.

Confusion!

Looker your constant Egg/JK stuff is now detracting from useful hunting. Counter claim now, or get back to it.

[Archer]

Seriously? *That's* what you come up with?

I only pointed it out. Why are you getting so worked up over something in which I made no conclusions? It was your reaction that was going to be far more valueable than the simple mistake you made.

So when I flip town will your view on Archer change?

Yes. It would.

And what happens when I flip town?

[Archer]

Simply put -
Suspect number one - farside: poor reasoning on both consp and myself. The more I questioned, the scummier I became, until she eventually put me on ignore and could no longer consider the possibility of me being town.
Suspect number two - looker: next to zero useful posts from him. This entire day has been about the JK