Open 272 - Near-Vanilla (Over!)

[brokenscraps]

/confirm

[brokenscraps]

Nacho has been on the site since this thread started but didn't confirm, clear sign of mafia not wanting to confirm so they could potentially extend pre-game talking.

VOTE: nacho

[brokenscraps]

chaotic neutrality confirmed 2nd scum

[brokenscraps]

Obvious chainsaw, come on town let's lynch nacho and then chaotic neutrality, never seen scum so obvious.

[brokenscraps]

No jokes bub this is serious business.

More votes on nacho please.

[brokenscraps]

So why didn't you confirm?

[brokenscraps]

I never said CN confirmed 2nd, just that he is the confirmed 2nd scum, I may have phrased that poorly.

1st - Nacho
2nd - CN

[brokenscraps]

While I did find Nacho visiting the site but not confirming a little odd, I did exaggerate it's importance a little to get him to react, and he did not react well.

I felt it to be a better action on my part to ignore the point and see how people reacted to it.

Why would this be a better action? As in, if people ignored it you could get away with ignoring it as well to not bring attention to it? I don't see why you would notice it and then think "let's see what others think" unless you were scum, super worried about what others think.

I did confirm once I saw the PM.

So you visited the site and read and posted in a thread without noticing you had new messages, something clearly shown at the start of every page? Not exactly believable, which makes me wonder why you'd lie about this...

P-Edit:

There is nothing that Nacho (or anyone) could possibly do to stunt conversation.

If people take longer to confirm this means a longer pre-game period, which means longer pre-game talking for scum in their quicktopic.

Pushing a lynch on the 2nd page without exceptionally good reason is extremely anti-town.

The game gets serious and moves out of the RVS when people start making it serious, how is it anti-town to do something that provides things for people to look at instead of loljokesrandomvotes?

Dropping CN scum accusation btw.

[brokenscraps]

However the mod allowed a set time for the mafia to chat so the point is moot I realize now.

I might be misreading this, but there is nothing in the mods initial posts that suggest post confirmation period scum communication, and the mafia role pms have been posted, and there isn't anything about talking continuing after the game starts in them either. So scum might think they would get a longer talking period if they waited on confirming (and indeed they may have, the correlation between the extra period and the game launch/final confirm is uncertain), making the point stand.

[brokenscraps]

@Broken:

And that makes 9/13!

The remaining players have 48 hours to check in, after which they will get a 24-hour prod to confirm or be replaced.

Also, the mafia will have until 1:35 PM CST tomorrow to finish any pre-game talks.

Day 1 begins now! With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

This comment was made when the mod started day 1.

But prior to that there was no indication, which meant mafia wouldn't know that they would get an extended speaking period until after there were already enough confirms, which means they might have still tried to delay the game start.

[brokenscraps]

How about we concentrate less on the amusing ambiguities a lack of punctuation can produce and more on the fact that you have completely made up some nasty scum slip which you haven't properly explained and are using that as the justification for a vote.

VOTE: AntB

If you're going to reason the way you have this game you're going to get voted, your case making is currently ranging from poor to scummy.

[brokenscraps]

Please elaborate on these obvious reasons, for both players

Broken, why are Nacho and Chaotic confirmed scum?

Am I to take it that you took my confident accusations 100% at face value?

Last post by Egg is moderately scummy. A million questions about a million topics is bound to cause fractured discussion and unfocused posting and why exactly would we want this? To distract from a case you don't like, or to avoid attention falling on you? Always the asker never the answerer eh egg?

And your vote on Smash seems so arbitrary, based on the implied accusations in your questions you could've voted anybody, what makes Smash's half-vote so scummy? Do you really think you can start a wagon on a player with 0 votes because they made a half-serious joke? Sorry bubs, not very convincing, and I'd say you're going to have trouble catching scum and getting others to listen to your cases if you base them on pretty weak points like this, and you're definitely going to have trouble playing in a way that doesn't look scummy.

You're on my list.

[brokenscraps]

in fact, seeing as I am scum either way.
UNVOTE: brokenscraps
VOTE: andrew94
Still not justified his vote on me and has missed the question multiple times, as well as chainsawing me and pretty much labelling me as scum no matter what I do.

You've mentioned chainsawing over and over, do you actually feel this is a useful tool when nobody has their alignment confirmed yet? You keep using this weak argument, to what purpose? Do you think it is helping town at all, or are you just trying to use buzzwords to sway opinions?

[brokenscraps]

I feel its a pretty good tell

Well it isn't. Not until you get a scumflip.

[brokenscraps]

For this. The reaction.

You said someone was at L-1 to get a reaction... rolefishing much?

UNVOTE: AntB
VOTE: Nacho

The wagon needs to stay here.

[brokenscraps]

The smash vote seemed like the best place to put my vote at the time and I stand by it. He used the phrase "slightly serious" which is a huge red flag for me, as I stated already. I don't believe in half jokes. As in, I don't think they exist. In life, when someone says they are half joking, chances are they are being serious and don't want to offend anybody. In mafia, if someone is "half joking", chances are they are trying to open up some options with their vote. Maybe a wagon takes off. Now they can claim that their vote had reasoning. Say someone calls them out for the vote. Now its "come on, I was joking". I think smash is scum, but at the very least, I want a committed stance as to whether or not he was joking with that vote.

Magic 100% working scumtells? Old school scumhunting at its very worst...

Do you seriously believe this? That the use of the phrase "half-serious" in a random vote makes someone scummy? And more so than anybody else so far?

If you're seriously looking at secret magical scumtells, how about the fact that you asked a question of everybody in the game except Nacho? Huge red flag for me, in mafia if someone is "11/12 player questioning", chances are they are trying to avoid talking to their pressured scum buddy.

If you don't just wanna be that guy in the background get your head out of the RVS. Otherwise you're doing a fine job at avoiding taking a stance on the wagons that already exist. More scum points for you.

[brokenscraps]

Yes, in that post I clarified my vote for Egg. The switch of my vote was because just before I posted I checked to see of there were any new developments, and there was. One of the things I saw was what looked to me like a scum slip. Is an apparent scum slip a "weak reason to vote?" So I simply added to my post, otherwise I would be seen as ignoring the questions asked of me. And thats something I dont like people doing to me, so I always try to answer everyones questions, or otherwise be a hypocrite. Reading back I see there could be an alternate way to read the post from AntB that made me vote, but my first instinct was to see it as a scum slip, and I'm sticking with that for now.

Looking back on your post the added vote on the end is just after you clarify your vote which makes it seem a little odd that you wouldn't remember to go back and edit the post to make sense, almost seems like engineered recklessness it such an obvious error.

farside's comments on this quote are highly relevant and I support them.

Conspiracy theory: the reason you give for voting AntB (weak) and the way you do it (speedy) makes it seem like you received a secret breadcrumbed signal from you scumpartner, nacho.

Seriously though the vote on AntB was not good and the justifications are worse.

[brokenscraps]

dude ok, in one of my recently finsihed games, nacho was scum and he posted walls of shit to confuse everyone and its a trap.
ffs

Which game?

Nacho, can you provide a defense? Because I was thinking how annoying your quote walls were, and if this is something you use as a scum tactic then you need to be lynched.

[brokenscraps]

Okay, your wall in that game is another level, but can you provide examples of posting regular quote walls as town?

If not your defense is kinda solidifying the case against you.

[brokenscraps]

Will post about shotty once a couple of games I'm with him in end, his style has changed a bit in the last week or so in all his games so it isn't the strongest foundation to build a case on. Still digesting the rest of your entrance.

[brokenscraps]

@non-voters: why aren't you voting?

With 8 days until deadline, I'd love to hear from brokenscraps and shotty since nacho is the only wagon at this point. No one else even has more than 1 vote, which is worrying to some extent. And shotty replacing out is annoying because of this, although we will have some fresh eyes on Nacho. Not having a competing wagon is kinda meh.

Considering we need a lynch to occur unless another wagon kicks of it's going to be nacho... or nacho.

If lynch is going to happen it should happen sooner rather than later to avoid revealing too much to scum. It isn't the only lynch I support but it is probably the one I'm most happy with, and it is easily the most likely at this stage. Anyone unhappy with lynching nacho should be putting serious work into finding another consensus, but if deadline gets closer they also need to consider whether a less favorable lynch (to them) would be better than no lynch.

Until you can find something worthwhile to comment on or assert, UNVOTE: VOTE: andrew94.

Really? An announced pressure vote on a player with no votes at this stage of the day?

[brokenscraps]

@mod: I will post as much as possible but won't have great internet access over the next few days

ps. looker is voting andrew

There hasn't been a new vote in a while and we're approaching deadline without a clear wagon and several lurkers & fluff posters. The non-voters need to vote now, and if you're looking through and nobody has expressed intentions of voting your 1 vote then think about changing votes.

opinion on Bella: she has good basic surface commentary but has added very little reads and analyses. The actual post doesn't say much wrong but it doesn't say much new; I'd prefer to see some more play that contributes A. new content and arguments & B. something other than observation to get a better idea of her. At the moment it isn't a good start and my suspicions are raised.

Still like nacho lynch most, then probably archer.

p-edit: beat me to it...

[brokenscraps]

David's last posts seem poorly motivated especially since

So my ability to replace into games has been questionable at best in the past, the town games I've replaced in I've always thought I knew exactly who scum were and been wrong and done a lot of PBPA which I now believe to not be all that useful in most situations, so I might try something different here and look at the game "event by event" so it's easier to look at scummy things in context.

suggests he actually thinks replacing into game is harder than playing from the start.

[brokenscraps]

So, what are you saying? Should I wait until the flip, then say Y is scum/town? Or should I ignore flips completely? I don't see how you can call it BS. I agree not all mafia games are like that, but using flips to mark a particular action as protown or proscum is decent way to find scum.

Using flips isn't bad, just that the players with the most opportunity to decide what a particular lynch "means" prior to the lynch are scum.

[brokenscraps]

I don't know what answer you want to what if DP flips town. What if anyone you ever suspected and voted for flip town? If you mean about lynching Nacho to get to there and both he and DP flip town, I won't be torn up about it. Nacho's obviously would have done scummy things to get 6 other people to vote him, and he's given the town information (Having a strong town tell on someone is helpful). If you would lynch me if Nacho and DP flip town, I can't stop you. But I won't be upset about it as long as you read back my posts after I flip and agree that Smashbro would be town.

You wouldn't be upset about potentially putting town in LyLo? And you think Nacho is an okay lynch because other people want to lynch him?

It shows town-motive/intent to his thinking/analysis.

This is just tautology and rhetorics, if you can't understand your reads why would you expect anyone else to? It isn't looking for opinions, just forcing your own down our throats.

[brokenscraps]

Not calling you scum or anything

Why did you need to say this?

[brokenscraps]

Is an extension possible?

damn

unvote:
vote: AntB

I'm starting to think that AntB/looker/Batt combo is coming to be true.
I may have to switch Batt with (insert lurker person here). Because I don't know too many scum telling people to vote either them or another person and get a lynch going.

I think I get why you're unvoting Nacho but could you explain yourself better? When you're doing something that could easily be bad for the town (voting for someone who isn't a major bandwagon with deadline nearly here) you better have good explanations.

[brokenscraps]

The NK seems pretty null, there are motivations both for killing Nacho both from AntB's POV and from someone looking to get AntB's framed.

I'll re-read soon but I'd agree the Batt interaction with AntB doesn't look great right now. His justification from today doesn't seem great either, but that could just be a wording issue.

[brokenscraps]

The "surprised that this didn't come up earlier" also doesn't seem to gel with the "I had just forgotten that it was the day of the deadline".

[brokenscraps]

VOTE: Smash

Will read day 1 more later but the dodgy explanations are enough for this right now.

[brokenscraps]

Anti-prod, I'll post when I have time/energy.

[brokenscraps]

Sorry for the absence of posts ya'll, I've been caught up with other issues.

• AntB's vote for andrew is off-putting. So is the lack of built case you proposed you'd bring.
  
• Andrew commenting on my "not good ness", while humorous, is understandable, seeing as my avatar is a warmongering Nazi cyborg. If that's not the "not good ness" you were referring to, then I don't know what you mean.
  
• Bella's response to andrew's answer is also off-putting...off-putting, exaggerated, and harsh. Her exploitation of the WIFOM induced by Nachomamma's final rundown is also off-putting...off-putting, opportunistic, and scummy. UNVOTE: VOTE: Bella

Because Bella uses more words than "off-putting" in her response it it "off-putting, exaggerated, and harsh"? I'm not getting it, the response is reasonable and this is weak reasoning for voting Bella. I really don't know what to make of it.

But what I really don't know what to make of is why Bella's reaction is off-putting and exaggerating when AntB responding to a similar (the same?) post from the same player is off-putting but not vote worthy. How is Bella's response worse than AntB's considering you have claimed problems with both? FOS your buddy vote for town, that old trick perhaps?

[brokenscraps]

@AntB - spam attack that allowed you to post in several other games but not this one? Bit strange to say the least

@looker - you're on the fence wrt Egg? Sure, he may be a rather useless townie due to lack of, well, everything, but he did out scum when batt false RC'd. So how can you be unsure of him? Surely if Egg is lying then after the batt lynch the real real jailkeeper would've come forward so that we could likely lynch another scum?

• You're absolutely right; I didn't think of that. Thanks.

This pretty much confirms you as town to me. I find it hard to see scum thinking they could get away with pushing doubt on a JK claim after that claim lead to their buddy getting lynched.

[brokenscraps]

Where are you?

Busy couple of days.

UNVOTE: VOTE: brokenscraps

You responded to this post several pages ago, what changed now? Do you usually move your vote around so much when there's a large bandwagon?

---

AntB's meta has been mentioned as part of the case against him, I've played a game with him before (Mini 1091) with him as VT where he didn't play that differently. What are the big pointers you're looking at?

[brokenscraps]

What I was saying was that in this game he didn't seem to play that differently to now. It seems like he was pushing a lot on nacho in this game while ignoring or not getting involved with much else (similar to how he pushed a lot on moose at the start of Mini 1091) then once Nacho died and flipped town he struggled to re-enter the game (combined with what seems to be some difficulties in playing fully).

I'll read his ISO in those games a little later and provide comments.

[brokenscraps]

The original line was in reference to when playing as scum.

Are you saying you play to be read as VT because it is a good strategy as scum?

Your actions are also looking more and more desperate, even if disguised as scumhunting directed at farside.

This, for example, seems more about undermining through calling scum than anything legitimate.

[brokenscraps]

What exactly do you expect to get from him by dragging out his lynch?

Comments from smashbro/dp's replacement who could well be his scumbud or could perhaps break open the game. This lynch will likely go through, what do you expect to get from rushing it?

[brokenscraps]

There is more then one scum left in the game. If AntB is scum in your view who is his scum partner would you think and why?

Dont know. I cant find any obvious links between AntB and anyone else, most likely since half the game is awol incl AntB who has been absent most of this day

VLA until Monday

If AntB is your only scumread are you comfortable at putting him at L-1?

Or do you have other scumreads you're not voting who just don't have links with AntB?

[brokenscraps]

All VT's have is a vote. That's the point. It' has nothing to do with the PM, it's what most VT's know once they get their role PM.
I have a vote. If I was scum I would be soft claiming doc and outing the doctor.
Seriously LH catch up, we miss you.

This is a weak test anyway (recognizing a reference to your role PM seems a very weak tell), and your version is weaker (only vanilla townies/town will recognize a reference to a way VTs are described in some but not this PM?). I'm honestly surprised that you're using something like this to push a counter-wagon, it does not look good.

actually about the jk thing, we only need to ask egg:

did you aim your jk as a protect or as a roleblock

Why would you wanna know this?!