Mini 1117 - Manhattan Special - [GAME OVER]

[Erratus Apathos]

Oh look! I'm the first one posting. This means that I'm the last one to send in confirmation, because I was busy talking in the quicktopic and didn't want it ruined.

VOTE: GreyICE

Why did you make this post?

Vote: Grey

- Caimed scum then redacted it. Not a random vote.

How scummy do you think Grey was as of post #5?

I have never seen anyone do something as ridiculous as Grey is doing. Im going to jump on this bandwagon for three reasons:

1) I have never seen a bandwagon materialize from the first post of a game. (In this case, two in a row)
2) I hate waiting around for three pages for a good discussion to materialize from all the RVS garbage. I hate RVS.
2a) This is a good starting discussion as anything.
3) What Grey is doing is just dumb.

Vote GreyICE

How scummy do you think Grey was as of post #5?

Vote GreyIce

I wanted to vote for you using your name in the vote !!!

How scummy do you think Grey was as of post #5?

I hate RVS.

Doesn't mean you can push a BW on someone who clearly made 2 RVS posts.

Why not? RVS wagons are awesome, I'd be pushing one myself if it weren't for the fact that we skipped the RVS this game.

I hate RVS.

Doesn't mean you can push a BW on someone who clearly made 2 RVS posts. Calling his posts dumb isn't a great move, either, as they were RVS posts. The fact you needed reasons for a vote in RVS is also suspect, but forgiveable for now.

VOTE: CrazyQuestions: Looks like I've got the CrazyAnswers for him.

I like this post not all.

Why not?

p-edit, p-edit: EMP don't tell people who they can and cannot vote for,

Quote please.

Also seriously. "EMPKing, get back here and explain more other than "Gray claimed scum and redacted". That vote seems awfully opportunistic this early and I don't like how the wagon shot up in numbers so quickly."

This is ... I don't even. Can a member of the town mind telling me if that quote is as scummy, reaching, chainsaw-using and inane as I think. (Seriously, he thinks I used my magical scum powers to cause a wagon to shoot up? Actually. He thinks three votes is "shot up in numbers"?)

Sub, Grey and SW calling it now.

You claim you've found the scum team before over half the players have even posted? Really?

My vote on Grey is 100% independent of his initial post.

How can your vote be independent of his first post when you voted him for said post?

You think Grey is Mafia. I disagree. Not a quote, but there we are. Your version also fits though.

I would like everybody to note that SW is calling Grey non-mafia when Grey has only made two posts (and those posts being 1st and 2nd along with being random.).

I'd like everybody to note that Empking thinks he has called the entire scumteam, based on about 10 posts in total.

Awful awful desperation to try and discredit me.

I spent almost two years without playing this game. You know what I missed most? This guy right here:

VOTE: Empking

[Erratus Apathos]

ShadoWolf, when you say you disagree that Grey is scum, are you saying you think he's town?

[Erratus Apathos]

Its typical hyperbole.

Calling the scum team before half the players have even posted is hardly typical, but okay. How hyperbolic is it?

Oh yea, thats right.

Unvote: GREY
OMGUS: Crazy
Vote : CRAZY

For making ME the son in that father/son bullcrap. You might as well have put up some inane survey and had people ask questions on who they think is scum. They are both as useless.

If youre having daddy issues, go see a therapist. Im here to catch the scum, not to make you feel better about yourself.

How does voting Crazy for "making [you] the son" catch scum?

And you still haven't answered how scummy you thought Grey was as of post 5.

I don't see any scumhunting in any of Shado's posts, so

UNVOTE: Empking
VOTE: ShadoWolf

[Erratus Apathos]

UNVOTE: ShadoWolf
VOTE: Internet Stranger

Any reason you're ignoring me?

[Erratus Apathos]

UNVOTE: ShadoWolf
VOTE: Internet Stranger

Any reason you're ignoring me?

What a surprise. He did it again.

I want to see some votes on IS and I want to see them

now

.

[Erratus Apathos]

Come on people, not forming wagons until I see who is joining us. Call that anti-town if you will, but I've found that scum behavior on wagons is not readable if scum AREN'T POSTING.

How can you extol the virtues of reading scum behaviour on wagons when you refuse to form one?

[Erratus Apathos]

Erratus: Appears to be asking questions but I don't necessarily see him scumhunting, as much as finding easy reasons to vote for certain people (shado for not having much content, internet stranger for ignoring him.)

Sapo, you say my votes on shado and IS are easy reasons to vote, but then you turn around and say these:

IS: got super defensive and emotional in his early posts. Also I think Erratus has a point in that he ignored his questions whilst gunning for shado.

Shado: apparently has trouble contributing anything of note amongst all the bickering about genitalia. I could give him the benefit of the doubt, but it seems like he might be profiting from the acrimonious nature of this game thus far, in that it gives him the chance to comment on stuff without taking any action.

Which are the same points I'm making against both of them. So what do you see as the difference between me suspecting them and you suspecting them?

You know why you see me as not scumhunting? Because both Shado and IS are flat out not responding to the cases on them. Shado isn't explaining why he's not scum hunting, and IS isn't answering shit. I'm scum hunting; they're refusing to be hunted.

A) Right, because the scum make an official announcement whenever they are about to do something suspicious. The scum call the press, throw a parade and bring the circus along with them to make an announcement for everyone to see that they are filthy scum.

B) All you

'

re doing is calling for the Brilliant Defense. You expect the evidence to be like CSI level. Unless I come in with DNA, fingerprints, video, eyewitnesses and a signed confession, then any and all suspicious are worthless.

C) It does work that way here. You do scummy actions to draw attention to yourself. In your case its all your scummy inactions. How many more excuses can you come up with to actively not participate Shado? Its kinda hard to slink away and try to hide with me constantly shining that bright light of attention your way isnt it? Your defenders (like Crazy) take on the job of distracting everyone away from you, but that doesnt work with me does it?

D) I

'

m pretty certain that I caught me a scum here. Your actions are doing nothing to dissuade me from my opinion. Therefore, Shado is filthy scum.

A) It'd be nice if it worked that way.
B) I never said that. At all. I'm just saying that you're pushing way too hard for someone who's only accusation is one of active lurking.
C) Excuses? Fuck you.

I think you perceive yourself as this amazing super-detective who's caught the worst serial killer in the world, while actually, you're more like Inspector Clouseau from The Pink Panther. You're a bumbling moron.
D) I'm not scum. (inb4 "lol that's not a defense") You're doing your best to paint every single one of my actions in a negative light. You're tunnelling on me, and you don't talk about anyone else, (and I suspect, won't do until I'm lynched or you're dead)

Now Shado is just resorting to ad hominem.

UNVOTE: Internet Stranger
VOTE: ShadoWolf

[Erratus Apathos]

3. I find strange he is attacking Shadow because of his responses to IS. IS is attacking
without any coherence and does not let even answer (and Erratus is suspecting of IS) but all in all, that is:

Confusing

I don't think IS is attacking Shado without any coherence. Of course, that's because his attack is basically my attack from 81, except more loud and obnoxious.

Why is it confusing that I suspect Shado for his reaction to IS?

[Erratus Apathos]

2. In my third point, I was discussing mostly your attacks on shado based on his responses to IS, nothing else. These attacks are such loud and obnoxious, and

expressed in such extreme and incoherent ways that Shado cannot answer properly no matter what he says.

This has nothing to do with the existence of arguments, that I am aware and share.

While the bolded is true of IS's last few posts on Shado, it is not true of IS's 97. It's also not true of the attacks on him by Emp, me, or simo.

3. It is confusing because I kind of read you as putting rational observations, and not feeding your view of shadow with IS' mad/extreme/tunnelled whatever. How would you expect Shado to react to IS? I am hardly reading anything from this reaction since I think IS attack does not allow to discriminate the reactions...

There are two things here:

1. I would expect town Shado to concentrate more on the cases against him, rather than IS's "SCUM SCUM DIE LYNCH SCUM" posts. Shado focusing on the latter means that he doesn't want to respond to the former.
2. I'd expect town Shado's reaction to IS to be more considerate of IS's alignment. Be it a town read, scum read, somewhere in the middle, or even something to try and figure out IS's alignment. The absence of anything of that sort is a good sign that he doesn't care to figure out IS's alignment, i.e., he already knows what it is.

[Erratus Apathos]

@

Midnight, saporo, whoever replaces Confid, whoever replaces Pergol

:

What are your thoughts on Shado?

[Erratus Apathos]

I am most suspicious of TL now. He never analyzed Shado, or even sheeped someone else's analysis of Shado. He just voted Shado and then ignored him all day, like scum trying to be the quietest on the wagon.

VOTE: TheLonging

[Erratus Apathos]

This funk has ConfidAnon's name written all over it.

What funk and why Confid? Did you not notice that Fugitive replaced Confid?

[Erratus Apathos]

Where?

[Erratus Apathos]

UNVOTE: TheLonging
VOTE: Internet Stranger

[Erratus Apathos]

^Okay, what is it about then? Why did you ask a protective role a question, when answering it would out them?

VOTE: TheLonging for reasons stated yesterday.

Sapo, I still want to hear your response to this:

Erratus: Appears to be asking questions but I don't necessarily see him scumhunting, as much as finding easy reasons to vote for certain people (shado for not having much content, internet stranger for ignoring him.)

Sapo, you say my votes on shado and IS are easy reasons to vote, but then you turn around and say these:

IS: got super defensive and emotional in his early posts. Also I think Erratus has a point in that he ignored his questions whilst gunning for shado.

Shado: apparently has trouble contributing anything of note amongst all the bickering about genitalia. I could give him the benefit of the doubt, but it seems like he might be profiting from the acrimonious nature of this game thus far, in that it gives him the chance to comment on stuff without taking any action.

Which are the same points I'm making against both of them. So what do you see as the difference between me suspecting them and you suspecting them?

You know why you see me as not scumhunting? Because both Shado and IS are flat out not responding to the cases on them. Shado isn't explaining why he's not scum hunting, and IS isn't answering shit. I'm scum hunting; they're refusing to be hunted.

[Erratus Apathos]

It was clearly rhetorical, nice attempt at mudslinging though.

No shit it was rhetorical. That still doesn't explain

why did you ask it?

[Erratus Apathos]

It was clearly rhetorical,

nice attempt at mudslinging though

.

No shit it was rhetorical. That still doesn't explain

why did you ask it?

Thinking out loud mostly. I tend to do that.

Next you're going to tell me that's a scum-tell?

No, I didn't find it scummy, I just didn't understand why you asked it.

I do find your "oh shit, he's attacking me" reaction (bolded) scummy, as I clearly wasn't attacking you, yet you preemptively assumed I was. Why did you assume I was attacking you?

[Erratus Apathos]

I am most suspicious of TL now. He never analyzed Shado, or even sheeped someone else's analysis of Shado. He just voted Shado and then ignored him all day, like scum trying to be the quietest on the wagon.

VOTE: TheLonging

I analyzed shao.

vote: crazyquestions

Where?

TheLonging, I still want an answer.

Sapo, I still want to hear your response to this:

Erratus: Appears to be asking questions but I don't necessarily see him scumhunting, as much as finding easy reasons to vote for certain people (shado for not having much content, internet stranger for ignoring him.)

Sapo, you say my votes on shado and IS are easy reasons to vote, but then you turn around and say these:

IS: got super defensive and emotional in his early posts.

Also I think Erratus has a point in that he ignored his questions whilst gunning for shado.

I was pointing out a difference between voting IS for ignoring your questions (

a fault that I think is somewhat excusable in a game with so many heated discussions

), and me suspecting him /not liking him for general assiness/ emotionality/ tunneling. I'm not very smart and I often vote for/ suspect people based upon how annoyed they make me. I AM WORST SCUMHUNTERZ.

How are the bolded statements not contradictory? How would you respond to someone ignoring your questions?

It was clearly rhetorical,

nice attempt at mudslinging though

.

No shit it was rhetorical. That still doesn't explain

why did you ask it?

Thinking out loud mostly. I tend to do that.

Next you're going to tell me that's a scum-tell?

No, I didn't find it scummy, I just didn't understand why you asked it.

I do find your "oh shit, he's attacking me" reaction (bolded) scummy, as I clearly wasn't attacking you, yet you preemptively assumed I was. Why did you assume I was attacking you?

Why are you asking so many questions about something you don't find scummy?

So many questions? I asked

one

question about 440, which was why you asked it, and like I said, I asked that because I didn't understand why you asked it.

Nice sidestep of my question by the way.

[Erratus Apathos]

You seriously thought I wouldn't interpret "something you didn't find scummy" as a reference to 440 when you posted it directly after a quote of me saying I didn't find 440 scummy?

Not buying your excuse to sidestep.

UNVOTE: TheLonging
VOTE: Fugitive

[Erratus Apathos]

[Erratus Apathos]

CQ, just because IS was scum doesn't mean his reads were false, scummy actions are scummy, all he did as scum was just make us painfully aware of them.

This is lovely. Are you saying IS' reads were trying to benefit the town?? lovely.

I've never encountered an IS scum so I don't know how to read him now. His tell on Crazy about preventing the lynch was dead on - but he flipped scum, so that casts a hell of a lot of doubt on it, but it still is a bloody solid tell.

1. Quote where and how I prevented the lynch.
2. in that case, How can be a BLOODY SOLID TELL to prevent a lynch of a player that flips townie?? His read on me was that I was trying to PREVEN THE LYNCH OF A SCUM PLAYER. This read is obviously WRONG.

This is the reaction of a townie.

[Erratus Apathos]

This is why Fugitive is scum:

I don't need to sidestep a question that dumb, I blatantly chose not to answer it because

I'm fed up talking to you.

Townies getting fed up with conversations happens all the time... but only after it's clear the conversation is going nowhere! This was not the case when Fugitive said this, not even close. There's no reason for town Fugitive to be fed up with answering my questions, when it was only the third question I asked him.

Why did you ask a protective role a question, when answering it would out them?

It was clearly rhetorical,

nice attempt at mudslinging though.

No shit it was rhetorical. That still doesn't explain why did you ask it?

Thinking out loud mostly. I tend to do that.

Next you're going to tell me that's a scum-tell?

As I said before, his reaction to my questioning is scummy, because I wasn't attacking him at this point, yet he was acting like it. Scum are more likely to be nervous that they'll get attacked, because they know they deserve it.

[Erratus Apathos]

That's all of it?

Yes.

[Erratus Apathos]

No I'm not.

[Erratus Apathos]

I'd be happy with a lynch of Fugitive, Saporovirus, or Nexus today.

Fugi: His reaction to my questioning earlier is fake. So is his suspicion of me for that matter, he's trying to appear like he suspects me but hasn't done anything to push a wagon on me.

Saporo: Fence sitting.

Nexus: TL's vote parking on Shado D1.

[Erratus Apathos]

Fugi: His reaction to my questioning earlier is fake.

How do I respond to this besides saying, "no." I'm not sure why you think you're privy to the knowledge of whether or not my reactions are fake, but it was definitely real.

I already said why I believe your reaction is fake, but I'll quote it again:

This is why Fugitive is scum:

I don't need to sidestep a question that dumb, I blatantly chose not to answer it because

I'm fed up talking to you.

Townies getting fed up with conversations happens all the time... but only after it's clear the conversation is going nowhere! This was not the case when Fugitive said this, not even close. There's no reason for town Fugitive to be fed up with answering my questions, when it was only the third question I asked him.

Why did you ask a protective role a question, when answering it would out them?

It was clearly rhetorical,

nice attempt at mudslinging though.

No shit it was rhetorical. That still doesn't explain why did you ask it?

Thinking out loud mostly. I tend to do that.

Next you're going to tell me that's a scum-tell?

As I said before, his reaction to my questioning is scummy, because I wasn't attacking him at this point, yet he was acting like it. Scum are more likely to be nervous that they'll get attacked, because they know they deserve it.

---

So is his suspicion of me for that matter

See above answer, except replace "reactions" with "suspicions."

Now you're just playing dumb. I explained why I believe your reaction was fake

in the exact sentence you're quoting.

he's trying to appear like he suspects me but hasn't done anything to push a wagon on me.

Bullshit. I've called you out on useless questioning and misrepping. I haven't made a giant ass CQ-esque wall to "prove" that you're guilty, if that's what you mean, but I've definitely made it clear that I think you're scum and why. From now on I'll include a "push a wagon" sentence just so you can rest assured that I do, in fact, want you noosed.

--------------

HEY EVERYBODY!! WE SHOULD LYNCH ERRATUS. MORE VOTES MORE VOTES MORE VOTES.

This is completely false. You started the day by vaguely hinting that my interaction with IS was scummy, then you popped in every so often just to remind everyone that you're still here and you still think I'm scum. It makes you appear that you want me lynched, but it does nothing to actually achieve that task, and the fact that you've been making empty posts about me all day just shows your true feeling is ambivalence.

[Erratus Apathos]

I said it was scummy

because

it was fake. You weren't really "fed up" with my question, you just didn't have an answer to it.

[Erratus Apathos]

I said it was scummy because it was fake.

Really? Point out the word

fake

in there for me if you said that. In fact, point out where you even

implied

it was "scummy because it was fake." You can't because you never did either. kthxbai

There's no reason for town Fugitive to be fed up with answering my questions

You're basically trying to find scum-tells on baseless assumptions about

why

I do things rather than just deconstructing my play for what it is. I wouldn't mind so much if you said it was scummy because I refused to answer (at least then you'd be speaking truth), but you're saying it's scummy because I couldn't answer, which is something you've created entirely in your mind, and there's a huge difference between the two. You really need to stop assuming and learn how to actually scum hunt, even though it's quite clear you're scum just trying to fake it. Stop making up shit and use concrete facts at the very least.

"YOU'RE VOTING ME FOR THE WRONG REASONS!"

[Erratus Apathos]

You seriously think that "There's no reason for town Fugitive to be fed up with answering my questions" = He's faking his reaction.

No shit? There's no reason for you to legitimately have that reaction, therefore it is not legitimate. You're grasping at straws, scum.

[Erratus Apathos]

c) Erratus raises a bit his level of scumminess. Being logical as he is, he is building a case on one observation, he is forgetting Longing even if he received no answer by him and he has not expressed opinions on the two players wagonned at L-1.

I haven't forgotten Longing/Nexus. I didn't receive an answer from Longing, true, but that's because he flaked, so it's null. During the time he flaked, I got scummier reads on both Fugitive and Saporo, which is why he dropped on my list despite not doing anything.

I did express an opinion on you, in 481. Fair enough about substrike. I think he's town, based on this post:

Honestly, fuck it, lynch me, but when I flip town, MS and CQ are scum. I'm not answering CQ's lists, I did it all day day 1 and I'm not going to do it now. I don't have the time. CQ's playstyle has been random and an attempt at appearing town. Meanwhile MS continues to actively lurk and post worthless comments like the one above this post.

He has answered you, and I can see why he'd be frustrated by you coming at him again and again when he's done it as much as he has. His reaction here is genuine.

[Erratus Apathos]

I haven't forgotten Longing/Nexus. I didn't receive an answer from Longing, true, but that's because he flaked, so it's null.

You changed your vote before receiving his answer. That is odd, especially because you played a similar episode day 1 in which you voted for the person ignoring you, you insisted by asking for votes against this player when ignorance continued. This episode is of special importance because it refers to IS. You unvoted IS later precisely to follow IS in voting shadow.

In both cases I felt the player I was changing my vote to was scummier. Why shouldn't I have vote hopped?

1. As you can see in my summary of him, I find his answers very unsatisfactory. Might you tell me which of the 9 strikes he answered satisfactorily and why?

He didn't answer your 9 strikes satisfactorily (obviously, as he didn't answer them at all, he just said fuck it). I'm saying he got tired of answering your case in general, rather than those specific points.

2. Fugitive answered you too and after more or less 3 posts (similar to strike), said "im done". Why is it different?

Two things:

1. Sub started answering your questions on 23, and said he was done on 518. To put this in perspective there were 20 days IRL between those two posts. That's more than enough time for someone to get tired of a discussion. Conversely, Fugitive vs me started at 440, and he said he was done at 471 after our conversation had a grand total of

four posts apiece

. I don't believe he got tired of me so soon after he started.

2. Sub is actually living up to his "I'm done". He hasn't answered you since. This adds credibility to it. Fugitive said he was fed up talking to me, but then he participated in the back and forth between 533 and 540. That is clearly not the action of someone who is fed up talking to me.

[Erratus Apathos]

I didn't have a read on you/Confid before my question spree today. Afterwords, I did. Not useless.

[Erratus Apathos]

Saporo's lurking is worse than MS's. MS posts minimal content regarding his suspects, but Saporo is a great big sack full of fence sitting and promises to post later.

[Erratus Apathos]

Saporo's lurking is worse than MS's. MS posts minimal content regarding his suspects, but Saporo is a great big sack full of fence sitting and promises to post later.

Yeah but it's the lack of content in the posts that makes it suspicious in the first place.

Yes it is! Here is my analysis on the content on each of MS's and saporo's posts, with posts I deem non-content in bold:

MS:
0: Random votes Emp
1: Votes you for a contradiction

2: Asks IS for a philosophy lesson and says Simo is always wrong

3: more Simo bashing

4: Votes Confid/Fugitive
5: Calls CQ town and votes you
6: Explains why he thinks you bussed IS
7: Says he thinks your AtE is scummy
8: Calls you scummy for not answering CQ's questions
9: Clarifies that he did not say "lurking"
10: Asks where he perceived you as a mislynch

Saporo:

0: Says she's catching up

1: Player by player analysis

2: EBWOP to 1

3: Jokes regarding Grey's accusation that she skimmed the thread

4: Says "What" to Fugitive

5: Answers my question and asks TL about his CQ vote
6: Clarifies her question about TL

7: VLA

8: Votes me and calls CQ and sub town

See? MS despite his low content is posting in a reasonably protown manner (trying to get suspects lynched, etc.), whereas saporo is just posting worthless shit. In fact after considering this I actually find saporo to be even scummier than Fugitive.

In the realms of internal emotions, how can I check this feeling?

So obviously, I am observing the difference between your previous episode with IS (flipped mafia) and your current episode, in which you hopped before receiving an answer. How scummy is this? Im not attacking you, but I added this observation and when reading back the IS episode, I note that just after he answered you, you voted together for shadow, who flipped town. It is my only source of scum feelings from your side, so I make it explicit for other people to know. I understand there is not a precise answer to my question, however...

Fair enough.

But since you dont consider him scummy, I guess you consider his answers BEFORE getting tired of my case as partially explaining my strikes as town and not as scum. Hence, i want to hear your opinion. A line for each of the 9 strikes will be enouh, thanks.

Okay.

Strike 1 (suspecting IS but going after Shado and Emp instead) and 2 (going after Emp for his placement on the Shado wagon but not IS or you):

Your third point about me going after townies gets into nothing but WIFOM. I went after town because I didn't know if they were town. Your calling that into question makes me believe that you have information that we don't.

I think the second sentence quoted here is a fair point. Not that it justifies going after townies of course, but I don't think Sub's attacks mentioned in the strikes were unjust to begin with, which is why I think his point applies here.

Strike 3 (saying he didn't understand your criticism of IS):

I noticed you were pointing out inconsistencies, my problem with your case was that you called something "curious" which doesn't really jive with "that's scum" or "that's town". Therefore, while I agreed with the premise of what you were attempting to do, and noticed inconsistencies, I disagreed with the details. That's what I'm saying. Your aggregate argument was correct, the micro argument was where we disagreed.

Even though "curious" in the context of Mafia usually just means "requires explanation" or similar, I know that from experience and I also know that the word does often confuse people who don't have that experience.

Strike 4 (making an easy vote on MS for lurking), 5 (calling out Emp for lurker voting, but also voting MS for lurking):

MS my vote on you was the fact that you pop in, vote for EMP without explaining it, and then withdraw back into the shadows. Only half that vote is because of your lurkiness, and you're taking both of my statements out of context. I don't like when people vote/pressure people who haven't even posted yet. You had already posted a scummilicious post.

I also should point out that I have never once seen a player who attacks lurkers as scum but not as town. It depends much more on the player than on the player's alignment.

Strikes 6 (OMGUSing MS), 7 (lining up lynches), and 8 (justifying a possible town lynch) I do not see an answer from him. I don't think any of these things are scum tells though.

Strike 9 (Bussing IS, but casting doubt on NC's claim):

Midnight what the hell are you talking about, honestly? We had a confirmed guilty. I voted that way.

To me it doesn't look like he was trying to get the town to doubt NC's claim. I think what's happening here is he considered the possibility of both NC-scum and IS-scum, and chose IS-scum.

Wrong. Trying to being fair on your comparison, Sub started in post 44, or ISO 3 (before, he was mostly commenting my view of IS).

I'm looking at the entire conversation, not just the questioning part. The post of Fugitive (or his alt to be exact) I named was 440, as that starts the conversation between me and him, even though at that point it was just an unexplained vote. Similarly, I looked at where Sub/CQ started and chose 23 even though at that point he was commenting on your view of IS.

In post 169, or ISO 7, he said:

Crazy I honestly just

gave up on answering

your questions, because they are living up to your forum name. The second question was answered, I apologize if it was not to your expectations. I'll try this one more time and then

I'm done with it.

From ISO 3 to ISO 7 that is what you call

four posts apiece

.

That's not the same thing. Sub was getting tired of the specific line of questioning you were throwing at him at the time, as opposed to talking to you in general.

Then I want to know all your reads before this episode. I have heard you enough about this one. There is a guy at L-1 and you dedicate your time to someone people is not thinking to vote?

Before the me/Fugitive episode my only scum read was TL for his vote park. Fugitive, MS and Saporo I felt needed to post more but given that D1 was fairly short and D2 was a speedlynch it wasn't enough for me to call any of them lurkers.

But I would now rather lynch saporo.

UNVOTE: Fugitive
VOTE: saporovirus

Not only for lurking, but when she does post it's meaningless. See my analysis at the top of this post. Look at her player by player analysis at 151, it is fence-sitting at its fence-sittingest. And that's the closest thing to analysis she has done the entire game.

[Erratus Apathos]

UNVOTE: saporovirus
VOTE: substrike22

[Erratus Apathos]

VOTE: saporovirus

[Erratus Apathos]

I didn't realize I was too late.

[Erratus Apathos]

Could someone sum up for me why Sapo is getting voted? Especially when both votes came with not even a bit of other text, let alone reasoning, (and from my top 2 suspects).

She hasn't posted anything meaningful. ANYTHING.

[Erratus Apathos]

Which is kinda funny considering you expected me to hammer someone I thought was town?

To avoid a no lynch, yes.

Also, it's a tad insulting you think I'd be stupid enough to intentionally avoid a thread and post somewhere else

Then why didn't you post?

[Erratus Apathos]

Also, it's a tad insulting you think I'd be stupid enough to intentionally avoid a thread and post somewhere else

Then why didn't you post?

No reason to. Why waste space with fluffy useless posts?

So you act offended at the accusation that you intentionally avoided the thread when

that is exactly what you did.

UNVOTE: saporovirus
VOTE: Fugitive

[Erratus Apathos]

There's probably two remaining in a 13 player game, and I doubt both are on me at the moment. That fits in with my Erratus and Empking theory as well, so I'm favoring that possibility even more.

Fugitive says he doubts both scum are on his wagon... but then he

immediately

favors the scum being me and Emp even though both are on his wagon. He's not genuinely scumhunting.

Someone hammer this scum.

[Erratus Apathos]

We should massclaim today. Popcorn starting with saporo.

[Erratus Apathos]

Now is exactly when we need to show our hand.

[Erratus Apathos]

LMP and MS haven't commented on massclaim yet. Why are you starting without a consensus saporo?

[Erratus Apathos]

Massclaim if we're going to NL is just stupid.

If we're going to lynch Sapo, Massclaim is stupid. If we have multiple lynch candidates, then massclaim makes more sense.

Sapo's eagerness to start the massclaim only further means we should give them rope and save the MC for tomorrow.

I see your point.

VOTE: saporovirus

[Erratus Apathos]

Four players is definitely the right time to no lynch.

VOTE: No lynch

[Erratus Apathos]

I'm a vanilla townie.

I'll do a vote count analysis in a bit.

[Erratus Apathos]

Here we go.

D1 Votecount #1

[3]

CrazyQuestions

-

ShadoWolf

,

el simo

,

Internet Stranger

[2]

Empking

- Midnight's Sorrow, Erratus Apathos
[1]

Pergol

-

GreyICE

[1] Midnight's Sorrow - Substrike22
[1] Substrike22 -

Empking

[1]

GreyICE

-

CrazyQuestions

[0]

saporovirus

[0]

TheLonging

[0]

ShadoWolf

[0] Erratus Apathos
[0]

Internet Stranger

[0]

ConfidAnon

[0]

el simo

[4] Not Voting:

saporovirus

,

TheLonging

,

Pergol

,

ConfidAnon

D1 Votecount #2

[2]

Empking

- Midnight's Sorrow, Substrike22
[2]

GreyICE

-

CrazyQuestions

,

el simo

[2]

ShadoWolf

-

Internet Stranger

,

Empking

[1]

CrazyQuestions

-

ShadoWolf

[1]

saporovirus

-

GreyICE

[1]

Internet Stranger

- Erratus Apathos
[0]

Pergol

[0] Midnight's Sorrow
[0] Substrike22
[0]

TheLonging

[0] Erratus Apathos
[0]

ConfidAnon

[0]

el simo

[4] Not Voting:

saporovirus

,

Pergol

,

ConfidAnon

,

TheLonging

Sub looks slightly worse here since his vote pushes the Emp wagon over IS (but not saporo, as Grey's vote came after Sub's). Not much though, since there were other counterwagons he could've pushed.

D1 Votecount #3

[5]

ShadoWolf

-

Internet Stranger

,

Empking

,

TheLonging

,

el simo

, Erratus Apathos
[2]

Empking

- Midnight's Sorrow, Substrike22
[1]

GreyICE

-

CrazyQuestions

[1]

CrazyQuestions

-

ShadoWolf

[1]

saporovirus

-

GreyICE

[0]

Internet Stranger

[0]

Pergol

[0] Midnight's Sorrow
[0] Substrike22
[0]

TheLonging

[0] Erratus Apathos
[0]

ConfidAnon

[0]

el simo

[3] Not Voting:

saporovirus

,

Pergol

,

ConfidAnon

D1 Votecount #4

[5]

ShadoWolf

-

Internet Stranger

,

Empking

,

TheLonging

,

el simo

, Erratus Apathos
[1]

Empking

-

GreyICE

[1]

GreyICE

-

CrazyQuestions

[1]

CrazyQuestions

-

ShadoWolf

[1] Midnight's Sorrow - Substrike22
[1] Substrike22 - Midnight's Sorrow
[0]

saporovirus

[0]

Internet Stranger

[0]

Pergol

[0]

TheLonging

[0] Erratus Apathos
[0]

ConfidAnon

[0]

el simo

[3] Not Voting:

saporovirus

,

Pergol

,

ConfidAnon

D1 Votecount #5

[5]

ShadoWolf

-

Internet Stranger

,

Empking

,

TheLonging

,

el simo

, Erratus Apathos
[1]

Empking

-

GreyICE

[1] Midnight's Sorrow - Substrike22
[1] Substrike22 - Midnight's Sorrow
[0]

GreyICE

[0]

CrazyQuestions

[0]

saporovirus

[0]

Internet Stranger

[0]

Pergol

[0]

TheLonging

[0] Erratus Apathos
[0]

ConfidAnon

[0]

el simo

[5] Not Voting:

saporovirus

,

Pergol

,

ConfidAnon

,

CrazyQuestions

,

ShadoWolf

D1 Votecount #6 (Final D1 VC)

[7]

ShadoWolf

-

Internet Stranger

,

Empking

,

TheLonging

,

el simo

, Erratus Apathos,

CrazyQuestions

, Substrike22
[2]

Empking

-

GreyICE

,

ShadoWolf

[1] Substrike22 - Midnight's Sorrow
[0] Midnight's Sorrow
[0]

GreyICE

[0]

CrazyQuestions

[0]

saporovirus

[0]

Internet Stranger

[0]

Pergol

[0]

TheLonging

[0] Erratus Apathos
[0]

ConfidAnon

[0]

el simo

[3] Not Voting:

saporovirus

,

Pergol

,

ConfidAnon

D2 Votecount #1

[3]

Internet Stranger

-

NavyCherub

,

Fugitive

, Substrike22
[1]

CrazyQuestions

-

TheLonging

[1]

TheLonging

- Erratus Apathos
[0]

Empking

[0] Substrike22
[0] Midnight's Sorrow
[0]

saporovirus

[0]

NavyCherub

[0] Erratus Apathos
[0]

Fugitive

[0]

el simo

[6] Not Voting -

Empking

,

saporovirus

, Midnight's Sorrow,

Internet Stranger

,

CrazyQuestions

,

el simo

D2 Votecount #2 (Final D2 VC)

[6]

Internet Stranger

-

NavyCherub

,

Fugitive

, Substrike22, Erratus Apathos,

Empking

,

CrazyQuestions

[1]

CrazyQuestions

-

TheLonging

[1]

NavyCherub

-

Internet Stranger

[0]

TheLonging

[0]

Empking

[0] Substrike22
[0] Midnight's Sorrow
[0]

saporovirus

[0] Erratus Apathos
[0]

Fugitive

[0]

el simo

[3] Not Voting -

saporovirus

, Midnight's Sorrow,

el simo

This is here for completeness's sake, but all it shows is what order people got online after Navy's claim.

D3 Votecount #1

[2]

CrazyQuestions

-

Empking

, Substrike
[1] Erratus Apathos -

Fugitive

[1]

TheLonging

- Erratus Apathos
[0]

Empking

[0] Substrike22
[0] Midnight's Sorrow
[0]

saporovirus

[0]

Fugitive

[0]

el simo

[5] Not Voting -

CrazyQuestions

,

TheLonging

, Midnight's Sorrow,

saporovirus

,

el simo

D3 Votecount #2

[4]

CrazyQuestions

-

Empking

, Substrike,

TheLonging

,

el simo

[1] Erratus Apathos -

Fugitive

[1]

Fugitive

- Erratus Apathos
[0]

TheLonging

[0]

Empking

[0] Substrike22
[0] Midnight's Sorrow
[0]

saporovirus

[0]

el simo

[3] Not Voting -

CrazyQuestions

, Midnight's Sorrow,

saporovirus

Sub is the only unconfirmed on the CQ wagon, which is bad. MS still not voting isn't much better though.

D3 Votecount #3

[3]

CrazyQuestions

- Substrike,

TheLonging

,

el simo

[1] Erratus Apathos -

Fugitive

[1]

Fugitive

- Erratus Apathos
[1]

el simo

-

CrazyQuestions

[1]

TheLonging

-

Empking

[0]

Empking

[0] Substrike22
[0] Midnight's Sorrow
[0]

saporovirus

[2] Not Voting - Midnight's Sorrow,

saporovirus

D3 Votecount #4

[3]

CrazyQuestions

- Substrike,

TheLonging

,

el simo

[2] Substrike22 - Midnight's Sorrow,

CrazyQuestions

[1] Erratus Apathos -

Fugitive

[1]

Fugitive

- Erratus Apathos
[1]

TheLonging

-

Empking

[0]

el simo

[0]

Empking

[0] Midnight's Sorrow
[0]

saporovirus

[1] Not Voting -

saporovirus

D3 Votecount #5

[3] Substrike22 - Midnight's Sorrow,

CrazyQuestions

,

Empking

[2]

CrazyQuestions

-

TheLonging

,

el simo

[2] Erratus Apathos -

Fugitive

,

saporovirus

[1]

Fugitive

- Erratus Apathos
[1] Midnight's Sorrow - Substrike22
[0]

TheLonging

[0]

el simo

[0]

Empking

[0]

saporovirus

[0] Not Voting

This is, I think, the most telling vote count. With Sub being the most popular wagon after the CQ wagon deflates, saporovirus pushes my wagon. It looks very much like she's pushing a counter-wagon to save Sub.

D3 Votecount #6

[3] Substrike22 - Midnight's Sorrow,

CrazyQuestions

,

Empking

[2] Erratus Apathos -

Fugitive

,

saporovirus

[1] Midnight's Sorrow - Substrike22
[1]

saporovirus

- Erratus Apathos
[0]

CrazyQuestions

[0]

Fugitive

[0]

TheLonging

[0]

el simo

[0]

Empking

[2] Not Voting -

Nexus

,

el simo

The end of D3 didn't come with a vote count, but the only thing that changed was Nexus voting Sub.

Remaining days don't tell me a whole lot, but again, completeness sake:

Day 4 Votecount #1

[2]

Fugitive

-

AGar

,

Empking

[1] Substrike22 - Midnight's Sorrow
[1] Erratus Apathos -

Fugitive

[1]

saporovirus

- Erratus Apathos
[0] Midnight's Sorrow
[0]

LynchMePls

[0]

AGar

[0]

Empking

[3] Not Voting - Substrike22,

saporovirus

,

LynchMePls

Day 4 Votecount #2 [edit] because I can't count from one to two.

[3]

Fugitive

-

AGar

,

Empking

, Erratus Apathos
[1] Substrike22 - Midnight's Sorrow
[1] Erratus Apathos -

Fugitive

[1] Midnight's Sorrow - Substrike22
[0]

saporovirus

[0]

LynchMePls

[0]

AGar

[0]

Empking

[2] Not Voting -

saporovirus

,

LynchMePls

Day 4 Final Votecount (#3)

[5]

Fugitive

-

AGar

,

Empking

, Erratus Apathos,

LynchMePls

, Midnight's Sorrow
[1] Erratus Apathos -

Fugitive

[1] Midnight's Sorrow - Substrike22
[0] Substrike22
[0]

saporovirus

[0]

LynchMePls

[0]

AGar

[0]

Empking

[1] Not Voting -

saporovirus

D5 Votecount #1

[2]

saporovirus

-

Empking

,

LynchMePls

[0] Erratus Apathos
[0] Midnight's Sorrow
[0] Substrike22
[0]

LynchMePls

[0]

Empking

[3] Not Voting -

saporovirus

, Erratus Apathos, Midnight's Sorrow
[1] No Lynch - Substrike22



D5 Final Votecount (VC #2)

[4]

saporovirus

-

Empking

,

LynchMePls

, Erratus Apathos, Midnight's Sorrow
[0] Erratus Apathos
[0] Midnight's Sorrow
[0] Substrike22
[0]

LynchMePls

[0]

Empking

[1] Not Voting -

saporovirus

[1] No Lynch - Substrike22

So I'm leaning towards Subscum.

[Erratus Apathos]

VOTE: No lynch

Same reason as yesterday.

Who do you expect to be nightkilled?

I feel like saying this would defeat the purpose, but I would honestly say that as long as it's not player 1, and it's either player 2 or 3, I'll feel more comfortable with my vote tomorrow.

Who were players 1, 2, and 3 referring to?

[Erratus Apathos]

VOTE: No lynch

Same reason as yesterday.

Who do you expect to be nightkilled?

I feel like saying this would defeat the purpose, but I would honestly say that as long as it's not player 1, and it's either player 2 or 3, I'll feel more comfortable with my vote tomorrow.

Who were players 1, 2, and 3 referring to?

[Erratus Apathos]

Quick question: would IS avoid or attack his scumbuddy?

I don't know his scum meta, but seeing as how he only attacked GreyICE, ShadoWolf, CrazyQuestions, and NavyCherub and all four have flipped town, I'm kinda guessing he avoided his scumbuddy.

And after a reread I've made my decision. Substrike attacked MS for lurking all game, but let saporo off the hook,

even when I called attention to her lurking

!
VOTE: Substrike22

[Erratus Apathos]

IS attacked substrike while not mentioning EA. (didn't mention sapo, too)

Sapo attacked EA and IS while leaving substrike alone, saying that SS seemed town.

If SS is right about IS more likely to attack scumbuddy, then it would implicate SS. If EA is right, then it would implicate EA... Interesting.

I honestly forgot about IS attacking Substrike.

Looking at it now, I see that he only attacked Sub weakly at the beginning of the day, without a vote or anything, then promptly forgot about him. And then I look at Sub's play at the same time, he... attacked IS weakly at the beginning of the day, without a vote or anything, then promptly forgot about him. Nice distancing.

Now I'm just amused cause Fugitive was right and I thought for sure in that exchange that if there was a scum there, it was Fugitive. I 100% thought MS was the scum between EA and MS until EA made the first post on this day without the vote, then I went back and reread.

Klazam, read this carefully. Sub is saying he thought I was 100% town, until he read this post:

I'm a vanilla townie.

I'll do a vote count analysis in a bit.

And then all of a sudden he was 50/50ish.

Because I claimed VT and promised a VCA.

Bullshit. What happened is Sub wanted to see who he could attack safely, so he put his attack on MS to a screeching halt and then did nothing for as long as he could to scout what I and MS/you would do, all while attacking BOTH of us in the hopes of getting one of us to agree and attack the other.

EA used that vote count analysis to set me up. He opens the day with a post saying he'll get around to it, but he already had.

Bullshit. I did the VCA when I said I did it.

From EA's perspective, he brings me to the final day, he posts that Vote Count analysis hoping that I'll freak out, vote you, and start begging him to vote you despite the evidence against me, and then he comes in and hammers you. That is his game plan for today, 100% guaran-fucking-teed.

How does me voting you fit in with that game plan, chief?

I have to go to the gym v. soon, so I will post what I think of you all without explaining v. much, for now. Plz ask me to clarify.

Crazyqs:

+2

for having the balls to come up with theories and speculations even if they are a bit farfetched. Sticking your neck out is pro-town.

El Simo: He is upset at crazy q's balls and wants to prove that his are bigger. He also is concerned with dick sizes. In the tide of the big e-peen measuring contest this game is turning out to be, I'd say he's a null right now.

emp: annoying as hell. But if I remember my last game with him correctly this is just emp being emp.

Erratus: Appears to be asking questions but I don't necessarily see him scumhunting, as much as finding easy reasons to vote for certain people (shado for not having much content, internet stranger for ignoring him.)

GreyIce: stop being silly. I logged in on Tuesday and I logged in just now. That's not called "lurking," that's called "having a life." I suspect you might have one of those yourself, since you've also been accused of "avoiding" the thread. Nice try though.

IS: got super defensive and emotional in his early posts. Also I think Erratus has a point in that he ignored his questions whilst gunning for shado.

Midnight's Sorrow: WHOAH LURKERZ IZ SKUMZ. Just kidding. Null.

Shado: apparently has trouble contributing anything of note amongst all the bickering about genitalia. I could give him the benefit of the doubt, but it seems like he might be profiting from the acrimonious nature of this game thus far, in that it gives him the chance to comment on stuff without taking any action.

substrike: I get the impression that he is honestly trying to scumhunt.

theLonging: who knows.

OK I AM GOING TO DO MY PHYSICAL FITNESS NOW.

Look he calls everyone what they actually are. Look at what he says for everyone, look at their alignment as they've flipped. Everyone who he listed as null or town has flipped null or town. The one person he called scum flipped scum. He then goes on to call Erratus scummy without actually calling Erratus scummy. He's soft-bussing Erratus and hard bussing IS in the same post.

This is silly. First of all, Sub conveniently leaves out that Saporo attacked Shado in this post. Secondly, his argument falls on its ass when you actually take a look at the numbers. Saporo called Longing, Confid (in the EBWOP), MS, and Simo null, she said nothing of worth about Emp or Grey and she literally said nothing at all about Pergol. Of course, that's what Sub meant by "flipped null", right? Of the remaining flips, she attacked IS and Shado and defended CQ. She called two people what they are, and one person what he wasn't. Yet according to Sub, she called

everyone

what they are. He's twisting the evidence to support him.

[Erratus Apathos]

MWAHAHAHAHA!!! HIGH FIVE SAPORO AND IS!