Mini 1120 - X-Files - Game Over

[Jack]

Confirm.

[Jack]

vote:Amrun

29-30 are both scumposts. Amrun is scum.

Dekes, the big game was awesome, what are you talking about.

[Jack]

Amrun - no one is at all serious at that point. ]

Yes we are, vote for amrun. I'm sick of seeing obvscum skate by because everyone is ignoring rvs posts.

Dekes as an alumni of the big game you know better surely.

[Jack]

Here? Not a lot. I'm in a newbie game but it's not finished yet.

Elsewhere? Extensive, but the style there is very different. I'm still adjusting.

Well don't be to frustrated by this game, just think of it as a learning experience.

[Jack]

I'm having trouble seeing where that is inferred, can you be specific?

Why do you have trouble seeing it?

Of course we use "confession" pretty loosely on ms.

[Jack]

Amrun's later posts do give me some sort of town read.

Sotty and Mariyta are scum however. Having just played with sotty scum I feel best about that.

unvote, vote:Sotty

[Jack]

I do see the alibi-bussing of Mari.

But I also do like what Sotty said about AH. The CML wagon didn't look that corrupted at all and the better option was to vote a lurker? I don't know about that.

I thought the CML wagon was bad.

[Jack]

@Anti: it's not off meta.

[Jack]

Sotty is scum <--no meta

Sotty

over

mariyta <--because I've played with sotty scum recently. Haven't played with mariyta ever (or else 4 years ago and I forgot).

[Jack]

Jack, you need to explain yourself a bit more, both the meta and non-meta arguments. Town needing to interrogate you to get your ideas out is a big distraction.

I agree, they should stop it.

People should only post reasons when good ones occur to them spontaneously. It's like significant figures in science, at the point in the game where you only have a yardstick you don't talk in inches.

[Jack]

That's your read through

[Jack]

Vote Sotty then.

[Jack]

You don't, just explain how you can both be here "to make things happen" and yet not be doing anything, even voting.

[Jack]

Let's get more votes on sotty, that's a good way to inject life in the game, maybe her buddies will start bussing/defending her.

[Jack]

I didn't know that stuff was serious.

unvote, vote:camn

I was uncomfortable with her earlier, but ignored it because I thought she was scummy in the prisoner and she was town.

[Jack]

Unless you really were joking of course

[Jack]

I like it.

unvote

Reread amor and I agree that he is scum.

Sotty is still scum too.

More later.

[Jack]

gman doesn't look great either.

[Jack]

Yeah, gman is scum too...

amor--sotty--gman

[Jack]

I'm actually kind of okay with being lynched right now because I think it'll do a lot to illuminate who the scum are in this game.

How so?

[Jack]

Your claim about being accused for being right is preposterous.

I didn't know that stuff was serious.

unvote, vote:camn

Unless you really were joking of course

I'd also like flavour for your power Antihero, as it seems a little weird.

oops. I thought that said VOTE, not UNVOTE..... (camn hangs her snarky head in shame)

ANYWAY.. I am bummed now. I finally have a couple days off.. but I am, once again, dead by day 2, so I can't imagine summoning the energy to re-read.

Wait, is this a scumclaim?

@Antihero: How is trying to figure out how trustworthy the day action is ignoring it? And I needed some time to reread camn and Dekes and think it over before putting my vote down. Sorry for not jumping as soon as you said so.

I don't think we should automatically trust AH's action, but if nothing else it means that one of him, camn, and Dekes is almost certainly scum. Based on play, camn is easily the scummiest: her ISO shows a whole lot of no-content posts and a vote in the CML bandwagon. On the other hand, Dekes and AH have been actively scumhunting the whole game. I feel pretty confident laying a vote down now.

Vote: camn

If you were being voted for "being right" I would be voted too--I voted camn but expressed doubts.

Your posts are clearly scum smelling blood in the water and trying to capitalize. "I don't think we should automatically trust him, but since it means one OF THESE THREE PEOPLE is scum let's start lynching!!!". And then afterwards you say it was antitown because camn might have been lynched, but you were pushing that lynch. Add all the crappy "btw what I did is what scum would never do!!!" stuff and it looks very very bad for you.

[Jack]

vote:amor

Not interested in a claim, and he soft-claimed vanilla town anyway.

[Jack]

Boo, that hammer was just too tempting though. But lynching someone just for a scummy defense wasn't a great idea.

At the moment sotty and mariyta are my top two and amrun has worked her way back to top 3.

[Jack]

Didn't like rats post, darla is scumbait.

vote:amrun

[Jack]

My first name is the name of a player here minus a letter.

[Jack]

unvote, vote:sotty

More confidant in this than amrun, I've played with haylen-town too many times.

[Jack]

My scum list is vague and nebulous at the moment.

297 is super scummy.

[Jack]

I don't have a minimalist playstyle. I just don't like this game or mafia much right now. Other times I do.

[Jack]

Hammers are always tempting as town.

Quickhammering a vanilla claimed townie who was going to be lynched anyway is not a scum strategy. Never has been never will be.

I didn't care about amor's reads in the slightest, I was pointing out how ridiculous it is to claim that your flip will magically reveal a bunch of people as scum. I took that as posturing for effect from him.

[Jack]

Actually...

You awake after killing your deputy director to find yet more bloodshed in the lead up to 2012. Lying on the steps of the FBI Building with multiple burn marks over his body is AntiHero.

AntiHero. Monica Reyes a FBI Agent, Vanilla Town.. burnt night 1

At the risk of reading too much into flavour, could the reason for two NKs be an Arsonist rather than a vig?

Starting to think this was a scum slip.

Gman, why do you think scum would kill theman and not AntiHero?

I dunno, it doesn't make sense. That's why I said "At the risk of reading too much into flavour."

Okay, lets try a different tact.

Why did you feel the need to wonder aloud about an SK? To me, I read this and it looks like scum who knows AntiHero wasn't their kill and so wanted to figure out what happened. To me, it doesn't seem logical that scum killed theman and the ??? killed Anti, yet to you it seems possible. I don't get it.

Burnt--> arsonist, casual comment. You're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

OH MY GOD, HE'S CASUALLY WONDERING ALOUD ABOUT THE NIGHTKILLS, MUST BE SCUM THEN EVEN THOUGH IT WOULD MEAN SCUM KILLED TMH WHICH IS IMPLAUSIBLE AS HELL

[Jack]

Sotty is scum.

Any argument otherwise is crap. Would you like my definition of crap with italics?

Since you apparently missed it. Your vote appears to be based solely on meta, which is weak. There are so many other reasons to vote people in this game, and you choose meta, and crappy meta at that.

You don't understand the concept of meta

When people say "meta is weak" they are referring to arguments like "x played like this in y game, and he was town, so..." which are by the way often great great great arguments. What camn is doing has no relation to that however, she is talking about a specific bit of knowledge sotty should have had if she was thinking in a town mindset this game.

[Jack]

You have got to be 883482L9YP,E0PKUDEOSUCD JOKING.

I SAID that she wasn't using the kind of argument that I think is often great, but that people say is terrible when they talk about meta. SO DUH.

AND YOUR STANDARD IS ******* PSYCHIC PROOF? WHAT HORSESHIT IS THAT?

THE SHIT YOU POSTED ABOUT ME WAS WHAT SOTTY SAID AND I REPLIED TO AND SHE IGNORED, AND SERIOUSLY are you blind or can't you see that you didn't "prove" that there's no town sentiment etc the other arguments you used?

mariyta: I think this
someone else: I think this
mariyta: WHERE'S YOUR PROOF A43989U3DA.LGKDX.LPGKD BTW DON'T SIGN UP FOR MAFIA IF YOU DON'T WANT TO PLAY

you're either mafia or the combination of every stupid folklore crappy belief set about how to scumhunt that is the bane of mafia play and incidentally political discourse in this country and others.

kill:mariyta

Reading comprehension and thinking are necessary parts of playing the game.

[Jack]

by the way, whoever gave me that last night, you are officially awesome, and made this game 1000X better.

[Jack]

People who prissily hold one standard of reasoning for their own opinions and belief and ignore that standard when attacking things they disagree with are a blight upon this world and responsible for many of its tragedies.

People who use internet speak excessively belong to a less serious ring of hell and I had only had one daykill so amrun will live for a while.

[Jack]

Yes I exaggerate too much.

[Jack]

that game was over half a year ago. so she didnt remember 'a specific bit of knowledge' from a game that was played back then. idk for sure, but im p sure sotty has played in a number of games since then, and has undoubtably had plenty of rl shit going on. in that time, that 'specific bit of knowledge' could very, very easily have been forgotten. camn was grasping for straws with this as a reason for voting sotty, and it appears as though you are capitalizing on this shoddy reasoning for malicious purposes.

Stuff like catching scum due to them messing up fake claims usually sticks with you, it's the kind of thing that you store away in your general strategy. But scum are more likely to say something like "oh fake claim tactics like that aren't the best idea" because they are not thinking in a town mindset. This kind of thing is the very basis of scumhunting. I don't particularly care about this point, I find sotty's "what's my scum motivation for forgetting" post many times scummier than that because it's such a strawman, and a common scum tactic.

More generally, in mafia people often find that someone is scummy and add the reasons afterwards. People who don't understand this are confused about reason in general. If you feel that someone is scum, it's often better not to fixate on the explanation that first occurs to you, often you later realize that it was nonsense, and yet they are scum anyway.

this is a completely uncalled for attack, and is disrespectful and unacceptable. and then he goes and disregards jason's warning with his next post:

No not really. She was was rude, I escalated, and now you are escalating again (and disregarding jason's warning ).

[Jack]

http://www.dan.sperber.fr/wp-content/up ... reason.pdf

[Jack]

I think pappums is town.

Sotty is still scum...mm.

I would look for the other scum among gman and amrun, and then darla and bella on the "not posting" side. Probably bella. The posts she does have are scummy, the cml suspicion doesn't read genuine. Some of gman's posts have been ok, so I'll say

sotty--amrun--bella

[Jack]

fos:gman

[Jack]

I think camn is scum after all, maybe it's sotty-camn--gman.

[Jack]

Her reaction to anti's claim is actually quite bad, the votecount focus is off kilter and the

"well, jack is town then" post mariyta argument
"I don't explain my townreads" to pappums
*explains townread* where the explanation has nothing to do with the post mariyta argument comment

is scummy.

[Jack]

I'm here.

[Jack]

Sotty is still the only person I really want to lynch.

[Jack]

@Jack: why her? Outline your case or it's not one.

premise one: sotty is mafia
premise two: we should lynch mafia

conclusion: we should lynch sotty

100% valid.

[Jack]

I already nameclaimed, but now my claim isn't true anymore.

[Jack]

3 days 4 hours, not cool.

[Jack]

We should be lynching sotty.

[Jack]

Oh and I forgot,

fos:bella

again, probably scum.

[Jack]

@dekes: but his claim does fit with those camn-theory posts he made earlier in the day, do you really think he planned it out that much ahead of time?

[Jack]

No it isn't

Scum roleblockers don't usually say stuff that only makes sense if they are the roleblocker, and they aren't really scumhunting. Why on earth would it be "equally".

[Jack]

If he planned on faking town roleblocker all along, why wouldn't he be curious if camn was able to get an action through despite him blocking her?

Scum rarely plan that hard, or notice a chance to hint at their role and take it (ESPECIALLY roleblocker, which often becomes a confirmed scum role by town getting roleblocked), and then pull off an acting job. I mean, it's not like camn really even hinted at having gotten an action through, his accusation was paranoid almost.

[Jack]

I've done that as town roleblocker. Actually hell, I replaced in night one, blocked someone, and then hounded someone completely different after there was a kill, because I was sure they were scum too (they were).

[Jack]

I suppose I could go for a darla lynch, that point about not taking a side right off is a good one.

[Jack]

Rat was always town and a bad wagon.

Persuading people often feels slimy to me so I don't try usually.

[Jack]

Jack said without doing anything to help getting someone else lynched but Sotty.

Why would I?

This has been addressed by Mari already, but I'd like to present it once again to show that there is no true statement in here and that is nothing but defending your actions by simply stating they're not what scum would do.

I addressed it already to, there are true statements in there, and it is more than defending my actions by stating that they're what scum would do. Is this really the reasons you people care so much about?

[Jack]

Preview edit:
Hey Jack, how would you feel about being lynched for obstruction?

What other people do is up to them. I play mafia to play detective, not to manipulate people into acting how I want.

[Jack]

Anyone alive out there?

I know! Massclaim, right?

Or lynch the player who is being replaced so jason doesn't have to find one!

[Jack]

That sure isn't how you played in The Big Game where you made cases on me and CES and made quite some effort to get other people to lynch us. You weren't satisfied with playing the Detective (which is so wrong on so many levels) there and you sure as hell weren't parking your vote on one person for two days straight without a case whatsoever. Your carelessness about your lynch might net other people town points, but that doesn't work for you, Jack.

I said "often".

When I get something to say I do say it, and have said stuff about sotty...my case on CES was all of 15 words or so wasn't it?

[Jack]

ISO 26, 29, 35 <--said as much about sotty as I did about CES

Not to mention I liked that game a lot more than this one and was describing a general feature which you are trying to disprove by single example which is a bad way to use meta.