Lost: Season Three (We Have to Go Back!)

[Jedo the Jedi]

Confirm

[Jedo the Jedi]

Attention:

I'm going to get this out there now,

I generally do not post on the weekends

. My confirm was an anomaly because I wanted to be sure the mod knew I was here. If there are any future weekend posts from me, consider them an exception and a blessing.

That said...what the hell is going on in here? I've played mostly on Grey Labyrinth, but my other game (Mutiny) was way different from this also. Why are there two, non-pressured claims already? I read the wiki for Miller, and it said the person is not generally aware of this knowledge. Is the wiki incorrect or is this a likely exception? (I've personally never heard of this role.) Also, I was going to question the plausibility of the claim of Jack as Miller, but jason's post about role/character match-ups in these Lost games reeled that in.

The other questions still stand. (I'll be back with suspicions in a bit.)

[Jedo the Jedi]

Thoughts:

1) Faraday said he would be v/la until Tuesday, yet he posted many times after that. Did something change?
2) Dram's claim still seems crazy, but I'm at a loss. I don't know why one would claim that early and for no reason, and the miller claim seems suspect. (Since Fate, jason, or chess (who actually acknowledged the post) didn't respond to my query.)
3) jason's claim also stands out to me for mostly the same reasons. I'm not familiar with reck's games, but apparently I shouldn't be reading too much into these. (Aside: I'm used to playing in such a fashion that you don't claim unless you are close to lynch, and that all claims are analyzed. Plus, generally speaking, you lynch the claimant on day 1 because they can't be trusted to have told the truth and you get info from their death and why people voted them. My vote will probably go to one of these two then.)
4) Apparently, chess and Fate are playing in the style of post lots of things while doing a flame war and finger anyone who reacts to it. I guess that means they'll be fingering me as scum soon. (Looks like they're already on that path with their recent comments in my direction.)

[Jedo the Jedi]

Sometimes an important part of a Miller role is that the player is not told this aspect of their role. Rather the Moderator assigns one person to be the Miller, but only tells him/her that the role is a vanilla townie. Thus, the Miller cannot simply claim their role Day 1 as a prevention against lynching.

This is what I'm talking about. Again, why would you claim so early anyway? I don't buy it.

vote: Dramonic

(Not to mention the carelessness of the whole thing.)

Jedo WTF ? That like more than scum. You aren't afraid when being questioned but before it.

Who said I'm afraid? Just because I went ahead and shot down the attack I saw coming? I just died in a game with chess, and he would do this thing where he labels everybody because of their "scum/town reads." (At this point, his reads can be neither confirmed nor denied.) As much as mafia has been played and these reads have become common place, people know how to fabricate them. I think putting stock in these reads is mostly worthless, but somehow people like chess still point them out and still others believe them and go along with it. I was just heading one such instance off at the pass. (Chess: "Goddamnit Jedo you're better than this.") I can only imagine that was him saying, "You are town, Jedo, don't do scumreads," which was pretty much what he did in that other game.

Anyway, I prefer gaps in logic, which, unfortunately, can be pretty useless here. Some of the things going on already seem illogical (note my previous post), so those are some of my top suspects. Of course, I'm not so narrow-minded as to let that be my only deciding factor, but it's a big one. (You can see what I mean if you read some of my posts from that other game.)

A good example is that I find the people on SSS suspicious. The reasoning for voting him has been flimsy and illogical. Plus, he's an easy target. That ought to be answer enough for you, Faraday.

[Jedo the Jedi]

It's fairly standard practice these days for millers to know that they are millers and this is especially true of Death Millers (THEY WERE NOT MEANT TO BE!). Claiming it early is the right play.

Thank you. That is something I was looking for.

unvote

Good lord SSS wants to know why he's scum.

I'd like to know why too.

I'll move to one of the SSS voters whom I think has bad reasoning.

vote: AGar

[Jedo the Jedi]

Now this I can do.

The defensiveness in Jedo’s first post (i.e. his fourth point in post 176) is unnecessary commenting. I think you are worried about being labeled scum so you’re trying to head them off at the pass so to speak.

Like I said, I just got finished playing in a game with chess, and I knew what he would probably do. It was sardonic.

Also, your “case” on Jason is also IoA; your point on Dram is generic and redundant.

I wasn't building a case. I felt I should remark on it because it is suspicious to me that he claimed like that, but I don't know how much credence I should give to such a claim. It certainly isn't a standard role. As for Dram, I needed some info in order to solidify how I feel about him.

Also, Jedo, please stop using generic pronoun type words to describe your reads.

See, here's the thing. Information right now is most useful for scum. (Read my sig.) The more stuff we put out there, the more info the scum have. You knowing my top suspects and me knowing yours doesn't do us any good because either of us could be scum and we don't know how much to trust the other's list. On the other hand, scum now know whom we suspect and can possibly make kills in ways which can throw suspicion on us. So I don't like throwing down a list, if that's alright with you. If you want to take the time to figure out just who I'm talking about, then great. At the same time, you still don't know in which order or how scummy I view them. It lets me keep something back from the scum. If you want to know my top suspect, check my vote.

Also, why so concerned abut SSS’s wagon? Did he do something particularly townie that makes you want to defend him when everyone else who has been wagoned today is mentioned in post 179 as being suspicious?

Because wagon's like that have a way of building quickly on a person who has done nothing scummy. Paint, paint, paint go the scum and down goes the townie. And at this point, he just looks even scummier if he logically defends himself. (Why, look at your post, for example.) There are better choices for a bandwagon (like people who are actually doing scummy things).

[Jedo the Jedi]

a) scum have more information than town;
b) in later Days, having information will help us find patterns and relationships;
c) you shouldn't be worried about being killed by scum or framed by scum if you're town, because your flip will provide loads of information (based on who accused you, who was on your wagon, who was against your wagon...all the kinds of things townies can use to help them solve the case);
d) you don't have to give a full list of your reads, but saying "some people did some stuff and I think they might be guilty but I don't want to nail them to the wall for it because I'm open-minded but not open-minded enough to let them off the hook" isn't really helpful. It also gives you the leeway to fill in the blanks later if you are scum. I shouldn't have to explain why that makes you scummy.

a) They do, but like I said, whatever information we put out there is more helpful to them than it is to town because it just creates WIFOM for town.
b) I do know that. You can in fact see some of that from my post. It may not be as cut-and-dry as you like it, but it's there.
c) I'm referring to night kills. Part of this game is being a good scumhunter while not drawing too much attention from scum. If I think I'm a good asset to town, I don't want to appear so very readily so scum will leave me alone.
d) There is no leeway there. I referenced the people I was talking about. You can check the votes and see who they are. Those people are suspicious. The only information I've kept back is how much I suspect each one.

Jedo playing like shit is apparently not unusual for him

I don't know what this means. You've played with me for a total of one game day.

[Jedo the Jedi]

Case on AGar:

Oh boy.

SSS and JasonT need to die. ASAP.

Dram needs the vig bullets early on. But this is becoming a common theme of mine. IF {dramonic in game} THEN {suggest early vigging}. Seriously. Happens a lot. But claiming deathmiller makes it more reasonable.

But yeah, SSS and JasonT - they're the ones that need to go.

Start with SSS, as he's keeping an avenue for Jason to stay out of real discussion for this character speculation.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Smashbro_of_the_SSS

Bella should probably start doing something worthwhile too, or she'll be getting a nice length of rope.

This has to be some of the flimsiest reasoning for targeting someone. jason was actually doing some scumhunting, and SSS also put up some solid reasoning on Fate. Then, that Bella comment at the bottom? She had done more than you when you said that.

Next two posts are nothing of note.

Jason, obviously you didn't read my post more than a glance.

You're scum for prolonging actually putting anything into this game, which you're still doing by saying "OMG WHY AM I SCUM TELL MEEEEEEE?!?!?!!"
Smashbro is scum for perpetuating non-scumhunting discussion, instead providing attempts to derail any useful attempts to do anything.


Let's lynch Bella/Jason/Smash. They're all good picks.

You obviously don't read very well yourself. jason has provided more to this game than you have. Only three of your posts have any substance, and almost all of it is poor. SSS has consistently pointed out suspicious things Fate is doing, and in asking for reasons for his vote (in order to defend himself) he has received next to no substantial reply. Plus, there you go again with your flimsy scum picks.

SSS's #230 is a total middling.

And the threesome of Jason/SSS/Bella CONTINUE to sidestep doing any form of real scumhunting here. Why haven't we run one of them up to L-1 yet?

Let's take the second line first. They aren't? Funny, you just called SSS's most recent post middling when it was actually scumhunting. He posted who he thought was suspicious. That's what you people want around here, isn't it, everyone to post a list of whom they find suspicious and why? Yet when they do it, they're clearly middling/waffling/wiffling/"being open-minded." Pfft.

[Jedo the Jedi]

Then, that Bella comment at the bottom? She had done more than you when you said that.

This is relevant how?

I was pointing out a pot-kettle situation. If he wants to say Bella is suspicious for not posting something worthwhile, then he is even more suspicious for doing less. (It wasn't a defense of her, but it also isn't good reasoning.)

[Jedo the Jedi]

Furthermore, Agar clearly has stepped up since then, so it isn't even hypocrisy!

I disagree. Like I said, he's had three posts you could say have content (I quoted them), and the content is useless.

Pointing out hypocrisy is rhetoric; not scumhunting.

Fair enough, but if he uses that logic to find scum, what then? It's one of those simple things I've seen scum use to justify a lynch.

Why did you feel the need to say it wasn't a defense Jedo?

That was to say that lurkers and content-less posters are still suspicious in my book.

[Jedo the Jedi]

A third claim? At least this one seems normal to me.

I don't like Dramonic's post. I've already explained why I don't think lists of reads are good, and that one is the worst of its kind. Vague reads based probably on inconsequential stuff. I can't blame the vote though. As vezok said, his ISO does contain nothing (i.e. zero scumhunting).

Back to the claiming. What do we do about all of these unconfirmed claims? I definitely do not want to go running off and pile votes on someone else only to have them claim too. Like I mentioned before, I'm used to lynching a claimant on day 1 for analysis of votes and interplay, but Faraday is the only one who has had a traditional pressure->claim, and his claim actually sounds believable. I've been told why not lynching Dramonic is a good idea for now, so that leaves jason as a possibility if we go with my style. Plus, if we lynch jason, I guess we can test his bulletproof claim. (I think he mentioned something about living as long as she's alive...)

Anyway, until other people respond to Faraday's claim, I'm happy to stick with AGar. I'm not one to let someone out of my sights just because something flashy comes along.

[Jedo the Jedi]

Yeah, I saw. He said if his lover was killed overnight, he would live to see morning. Nowhere close to bulletproof.

Also, lynching people who have claimed is not necessarily stupid. If we just keep hopping around getting claims, we'll never know which are true and we'll just end up having a mass claim. (Ask chess how good an idea that is.) As I just found out in another game, just because the person has a reasonable sounding claim does not negate their scummy actions. If Faraday is so scummy, his really good claim shouldn't change that, especially not with the possibility of safe claims. (His lack of good content is suspicious, but not all that scummy. Sometimes though, I guess you can only catch them with tax evasion.)

[Jedo the Jedi]

I've shown how you have done nothing, AGar, but then again, you don't do WoT (which I suppose includes reading them).

There are too many things wrong with that post of yours. Fate is townie? Do you have some sort of handbook where you come up with these reads? If you do, I would chuck it. Reads are so easy to manipulate and fake. Beyond that, what kind of town read is it where you hop your vote around and only post a bunch of one-liners? That's not even productive. For SSS to vote him for that is totally reasonable. Then again, I guess you're only a townie if you play like Fate.

unvote vote: Bella, unvote vote: SSS, unvote vote: mockingjaye, unvote vote: CES, unvote vote: Faraday, unvote vote: AGar

I must be a townie now. Those people are all scum. Look at my good scumhunting skills. (This was POE because everybody else has townreads. Why the fuck there are six scum I have no idea.)

Also, I don't see where SSS demanded "lengthy reasons" for the votes on him. It was out of the blue, so he was curious. Others asked for the reasoning too. I guess everybody who doesn't understand the reason this town has now outed three claims and is going for more must be a fucking moron.

As for Bella, I already said I was just demonstrating you did the same thing you accused her of. If that's good enough to go after her, it's good enough to go after you. Sure you've posted more stuff that might be called content (in some bizarro world), but in this world, shit still equals shit.

[Jedo the Jedi]

I am just not used to this play style. Nobody plays like this over on the Grey Labyrinth. If that has to do with the meta over here, then totally, that's why I'm at a loss. Over there, a game just finished and I pegged all three scum (two of which looked town until the last two days) as a vanilla townie. *shrug*

I can't believe this Bella business. It seems strange to finger AGar like that. If she's scum, why would she bus her scumbuddy? If he's not her scumbuddy, why does she think we would believe her after she flips scum? If she flips town though, I guess that info would be helpful.

[Jedo the Jedi]

I don't like that role. It seems counter-productive to the mafia winning. I guess that makes sense with the Lost theme though.

[Jedo the Jedi]

I learned my lesson: Reck puts weird fucking roles in his game.

Seriously, that and this playstyle of say random shit just threw me off. I've been away for a few years, but man how the times change.

vezok, you were close. Nice try.

But yeah I called Vezokscum d1. woo woo.

Bullshit. The closest you said was you weren't getting the normal obvtown read. That means shit. Plus, you missed on both Faraday and SSS. Stop inflating your scum pegs.

[Jedo the Jedi]

The play up to that point was good. vezok should have stolen my Sawyer safe claim which I told him about. Probably would have won it then.