Mini 1120 - X-Files - Game Over

[Bella]

/confirmage

[Bella]

Oh sweet, I already know who my first vote is going on.

[Bella]

Pfft, that's coming from someone with a Toaster-loving whorebag in her avatar? :p

[Bella]

VOTE: DarlaBlueEyes

[Bella]

Based on how she's reacted here and how she's been talking in Scumchat, I'm fairly confident that Amrun's reactions to this thread are more down to newb-to-MS culture shock on her part than pure scumminess. It doesn't mean she's not scum, but her actions so far aren't down to scumminess.

CML's reaction to it is curious though. Repeating the experience question and then trying to make a deal out of two differing (but factually accurate) answers just doesn't make sense to me, especially when there's an obvious explanation for it.

[Bella]

Based on how she's reacted here and how she's been talking in Scumchat, I'm fairly confident that Amrun's reactions to this thread are more down to newb-to-MS culture shock on her part than pure scumminess. It doesn't mean she's not scum, but her actions so far aren't down to scumminess.

CML's reaction to it is curious though. Repeating the experience question and then trying to make a deal out of two differing (but factually accurate) answers just doesn't make sense to me, especially when there's an obvious explanation for it.

I'm not a fan of this post. It piles onto the CML case without actually voting or really saying...anything about CML's alignment directly. Same thing with Amrun.

It's not necessarily scummy, and it warranted analysis of his response before it went anywhere. His response is lacking - the post I commented on was his last in the thread. It's particularly concerning that he's failed to respond to the fact that a wagon grew on him in the meantime.

Alright, I think it's time to use this.

Tangle: camn and dekes

*waits for jason*

Interesting.

In the meantime... VOTE: CallMeLiam

[Bella]

I am very curious as to how "tangling" two people constitutes an investigative role, and to find out exactly how strong a day-investigation ability could be.

[Bella]

Guys, just posting to let you know I'll probably be v/la until the weekend or so due to a family thing.

[Bella]

Okay, I was going to go though the game responding to the posts I thought deserved it, but then I saw camn post this request and thought it'd be easier to just do this to catch up.

I looked at the mods last post and it initially said CallMeLiam w/o rat being in there, so I think that's where I got confused.

I do see that jason edited that post after your post. Which is good, because when I read that post of yours, I sat and stared at the screen for a few minutes, and I couldn't think of a single scenario in which you weren't scum.

That said: Rat, Bella and Darla.... I need you three in here right now, lighting the world on fire.
You three are weak links in a pretty weak town, and that needs to change.
Please, the 3 of you, .. list all the players in the game, like this:

DarlaBlueEyes

Dekes

Mariyta

Bella

pappums rat

Sotty7

Gman

Camn

Jack

Amrun

And give a line or two telling me what you think of each of them. No need for in-depth argument... just a quick what and why. I will do it after you guys have done it.

Go.

DarlaBlueEyes

- Mmm... lurker town, I think, although it's hard to go either way. It's mostly just gut and the reaction to pappum's attacking her when she responded straigth away to his case against her, though.

Dekes

- I'd call him likely town at the moment, he's making reasonable attempts to scum-hunt and while I don't necessarily agree with his analysis of the game thusfar, he's demonstrating his reasoning, which is always a plus.

Mariyta

- She was a good townish-player and it's a shame we've lost her for the reasons we have.

pappums rat

- The slot wasn't doing well with CML and pappum's rat has thus failed to improve on it. The hypocricy in his attack on Jack was pretty amusing, he went role-fishing with camn and his justification for witholding his opinions is questionable at best.

Sotty7

- Mmm, well... I've found the arguments Jack and camn have made for Sotty7scum to be moderately persuasive, even if camn's backed off on it now. Plus, I've been feeling the "not-quite-all-in" vibe that Dekes seemed to have picked up from her too.

Gman

- The thing that stands out most about Gman is that he made a post near the start of day two aloong the lines of this one where he made comments on 6 players out of nine and there's no reason I noticed for him skipping the other three (Dekes, myself and Mariyta), yet nobody called him out for it. Did I miss something there? Otherwise, he's sitting in the neutral-leaning-town pile. There's nothing especially scummy that stands out and he's been broadly attempting to find scum.

Camn

- camn is camn. I'm leaning town, mostly based on the reaction to the tangle thing because I've always found camn hard to read when I've played with her and I'm wary of getting it wrong so I treat any read I do have with a healthy amount of skepticism.

Jack

- I'm fairly confident Jack is town based on the hammer on day one and his reaction to it and the way he launched into sotty7 once he picked up on the line of attack he and camn have taken, although his inability to match his thoughts and his votes is grating and irritating. I could also really do without the attitude.

Amrun

- Blech. She keeps pinging both the newb-town and newb-scum reads and I'm finding it quite difficult to define her either way. It bugs me how newbish she's seeming considering the experience she claims to have from elsewhere, though. It's more than just culture shock at this point. I guess I'd be willing to lynch her, despite my reservations, but I think there are better targets.

By all means, interrogate me further on this. I find it easier to coalesce my thoughts when answering specific inquiries.

[Bella]

Your assumption is INcorrect, rat.
maybe next time.

Bella .. Who were you again?

If you're asking what my previous account was, then it's [urlk=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/memberli ... ile&u=8892]DizzyIzzyB13[/ul]

bella, there is a huge difference between these two posts by jack:

You have got to be 883482L9YP,E0PKUDEOSUCD JOKING.

I SAID that she wasn't using the kind of argument that I think is often great, but that people say is terrible when they talk about meta. SO DUH.

AND YOUR STANDARD IS ******* PSYCHIC PROOF? WHAT HORSESHIT IS THAT?

THE SHIT YOU POSTED ABOUT ME WAS WHAT SOTTY SAID AND I REPLIED TO AND SHE IGNORED, AND SERIOUSLY are you blind or can't you see that you didn't "prove" that there's no town sentiment etc the other arguments you used?

mariyta: I think this
someone else: I think this
mariyta: WHERE'S YOUR PROOF A43989U3DA.LGKDX.LPGKD BTW DON'T SIGN UP FOR MAFIA IF YOU DON'T WANT TO PLAY

you're either mafia or the combination of every stupid folklore crappy belief set about how to scumhunt that is the bane of mafia play and incidentally political discourse in this country and others.

kill:mariyta

Reading comprehension and thinking are necessary parts of playing the game.

People who prissily hold one standard of reasoning for their own opinions and belief and ignore that standard when attacking things they disagree with are a blight upon this world and responsible for many of its tragedies.

People who use internet speak excessively belong to a less serious ring of hell and I had only had one daykill so amrun will live for a while.

and mine:

i dont see what the fuck is amusing about it. go back to the kid's table, your not ready to sit with the grown-ups yet.

i was essentially telling amrun that to be amused by this kind of venom is immature in two short sentences, while jack was just spewing bile.

Your first post in the game was pretty much the same thing Jack did, except yours was aimed at Darla.

bella wrote:

DarlaBlueEyes

- Mmm... lurker town, I think, although it's hard to go either way. It's mostly just gut and the reaction to pappum's attacking her when she responded straigth away to his case against her, though.

how exactly is her immediately coming out of the shadows to defend herself and then slinking back off a reason for thinking she is town? she hasnt made a single post since then.

Exactly.

Bella - My post was supposed to be just scum-reads I'd noted. I left people out if I had town or null (due to inactivity) reads. Apologies for not making that clearer

Mmm, I suppose this is a sufficient explanation. It's not a big thing, and I was more curious as to why nobody else commented on it. That's why I thought I missed something.

[Bella]

Bella, vote in your next post, please.

The one way to absolutely guarantee I won't vote in my next post is to demand it. This is a very verifiable fact if you'd like to check it out.

Bella suspected Liam but didn’t vote. Time passes, he hasn’t posted, and with nothing new on the table she votes anyway. There’s no concern that her vote could be doing nothing on a lurker, there’s no talk about the active people, and she even is concerned that Liam has not posted to respond to his case. A lurker calling a lurker a lurker. That lands really fake with me.

There are different kinds of lurker. Given the timing of his lurking, he seemed more like the bad, scummy kind.

[Bella]

There are different kinds of lurker. Given the timing of his lurking, he seemed more like the bad, scummy kind.

I'll look at the timeline again. Is this taking into consideration other games that he was playing? I guess I'll check that too.

That doesn't exactly work - the fact that he wasn't posting elsewhere either doesn't prove he wasn't avoiding anything in this game.

[Bella]

Also, Bella, what makes your lurking town and Lowell's scummy?

Lowell?

[Bella]

Mm, you know, if you check her posting activity during this game, there's definite evidence that she's been avoiding this game. She posted to confirm on January 30th. Since then, she's been on-site posting to some degree on every day since then. Granted, a fair bit of that has been her complaining of being ill and posting to promise futher posting, which may well be consistent with illness, but she's definitely been posting more frequently in other games.

[Bella]

EBWOP: That's concerning Darla, btw.

[Bella]

Also, Bella, what makes your lurking town and Lowell's scummy?

@Bella: I'm sorry. I meant Liam, not Lowell. My bad.

Mmm, it's hard to answer it about myself since I obviously know what's in my role PM and what isn't. However, if you look at the times I've been lurkerish it's been a) across the board in all games, b) accompanied by vastly reduced activity elsewhere on the site and in Scumchat and c) does not occur in response to any particular in-game event. In Liam's case, he went dark right after pressure had been applied to him, which is more indicative of lurkerscum than lurkertown.

[Bella]

Sotty7

- Mmm, well... I've found the arguments Jack and camn have made for Sotty7scum to be moderately persuasive, even if camn's backed off on it now. Plus, I've been feeling the

"not-quite-all-in"

vibe that Dekes seemed to have picked up from her too.

You're going to have to explain the bold. I don't get it.

I'm also confused how you can claim Jack's hammer is a town point for him.

Not fully committed? Is that better? I've seen you play harder in other games as town

Also, Bella, what makes your lurking town and Lowell's scummy?

@Bella: I'm sorry. I meant Liam, not Lowell. My bad.

Mmm, it's hard to answer it about myself since I obviously know what's in my role PM and what isn't. However, if you look at the times I've been lurkerish it's been a) across the board in all games, b) accompanied by vastly reduced activity elsewhere on the site and in Scumchat and c) does not occur in response to any particular in-game event. In Liam's case, he went dark right after pressure had been applied to him, which is more indicative of lurkerscum than lurkertown.

Actually, CML has site flaked. I know this because I had to pick up Cold War Mafia when he vanished. Does this change your opinion on him?

As far as I'm aware, the line of questioning is related to why I voted for him back on day one, before this became apparent. At least, that was the question I was answering. So yes, it has changed that opinion, since it makes it seem like it's just coincidental timing.

[Bella]

Still, Bella, how is jack's hammer "good" to you? Really? It's terrible to me.

It fits in with his character - he's the impatient type who, when presented with a hammer they intend to take, will jump in and just do it. Also, having played with him before, he knows what he's doing and jumping with with a quick hammer when there's a request for more info from the target hanging there is too obvscum for az player capable of being as savvy as he can be.

Bella, vote in your next post, please.

The one way to absolutely guarantee I won't vote in my next post is to demand it. This is a very verifiable fact if you'd like to check it out.

Okay, you're playing the rebel, I guess I could've seen it coming though. Let me try again: Who would you vote right now because it wasn't clear from your player analysis and it's even less clear now.

It's not so much playing the rebel as being severely irritated by people who demand votes.

I'd be happiest lynching pappum's rat at the moment, though.

[Bella]

Amor - Have you actually checked this evidence? Because those games aren't a whole lot different.

#1: Few posts and latest ones are excusing inactivity with promises to post more. Popped in occasionally to defend herself. Sound familiar?
#2: More detailed posts on teh face of it but dig deeper. She posted today, and before that she didn't for a week. And those posts were picking up a prod and saying she was sick.
#3: Last post a few days ago picking up a prod.

I don't think it's all that conclusive. It looks like you wanted to buy in without checking.

Maybe she's posted

slightly

more in other games but I wouldn't call her particularly active. I've found her scummy, particularly the way she came in on Day 1 and produced little to nothing after saying she was reading through and a general lack of content in her actual posts.

But I don't agree with the assessment that she's getting more scummy, or at least not to the degree you're suggesting she is.

What she's posting doesn't really matter - the fact that she's more readily posting about her lack of activity elsewhere makes me think she's trying harder to draw less attantion to it here. I mean, it's not a case that she's not able to get to all her games and this one happens to be losing out, since she's paying enough attention to be able to respond pretty swiftly to a post that attacks her. Compared to the other games, it seems like she's trying to fly under the radar here.

[Bella]

sotty7 wrote:

Jack and Mari have "strong" personalities. The fact something like this happened isn't a shock to me. You making out Jack to be scummy for such an emotional reaction seems off to me. Even more so when I had detailed actual scummy things about Jack leading up to this (his hammer and his "fake" question) got no reaction from you. The fact is you ignored this in game evidence and now are voting him in some kinda messed up white knight defense is all kinds of scummy.

just because i never mentioned jack's scummy posts from before dosent mean i didnt note them. i was trying to get darla lynched, and i didnt see the need to mention jack's actions at the time. tbh i have noted a number of things from different people that i have found scummy, and probably wont bring them up until i have reason to build a case on them. as for this 'white knight' bullshit that you and amrun are talking about, meh. a player made a bad attack on another player, and i called him out for it. and my vote on him wasnt entirely because of this attack, it was mainly due to his poor reasoning behind voting sotty (being supposed to remember some little detail from over 6 months ago, and automatically being scum for not doing so).

the last time i wrote my every thought, town got screwed for it. in mini 1091 i was the doctor, and after i was forced to claim, we were able to get scum lynched. obviously a doc is going to get nk'ed, but after the game in the scum qt, it turns out the scum were actually going to kill another pr who had claimed and try to frame me as not having protected him. they chose not to after iso'ing me and seeing that my opinion had changed on the player (i didnt believe his claim before, but then did believe it). i didnt really need to say that i trusted his claim for the benefit of the town, but i did anyway, and if i hadnt they would have attempted to kill him (would have been prevented b/c i did protect him) and i think the game could have turned out completely different. so i decided that i should keep most of my thoughts to myself if they were not entirely pertinent at the time after that game.

So, uh... papppum's rat has specifically posted that a) he did not mention reads on Jack in a pertinent manner and b) made a post stating that concealing reads is a deliberate approach to playing the game and then c) denied witholding reads?

Straw. Camel's back. Say hi.

VOTE: pappum's rat

[Bella]

Name claim is a very good idea.

[Bella]

[quote="Dekes

Name claim is a very good idea.

No. Just fucking no. Either you're scum or you should replace instantly out of this game for playing against your wincon.
Your vote is still on pappums. In the four days you haven't posted prior to this post pappums has claimed. People unvoted pappums for various reasons and other stuff happened. And this is the only thing we get from you? Just no.

Guys, how about we stopped avoiding actual scumhunting by contributing to a silly mass nameclaim in a Theme Game on D2 and get on with lynching scum instead? Because whether we nameclaim or not, this won't get us closer to a scum lynch today, that I guarantee.[/quote]

Don't be completely stupid. I am playing to my wonderful wincon by proposing an action that hinders scum. Anything that locks scum into a particular course and removes their freedom to choose what to do is good for town. Your objections are based upon the notion that the mod has designed a set-up that could be broken by name-claiming, and I just don't believe that is the case.

If I didn't like my vote being on pappum's I would have moved it. I happen to like it where it is. His claim is completely null to me - he's claimed a role that's fairly common in both town and scum flavors and claimed a blocking target that makes sense from either perspective. It does not move me in either direction. Why would that make me move my vote off him?

[Bella]

Just posting to say that I'm likely to be v/la until Monday.

[Bella]

@Bella
I don't know where you got that from but I do not think the game is breakable by nameclaiming unlike other people tend to think.

Your argument against name claiming is that it will out town power roles to scum. In my book, this is as much breaking the game as making scum identifiable to town on the basis of flavor.

[Bella]

I request immediate replacement.

[Bella]

Haylen replaces Sotty.. thank you and welcome

Due to this, I require replacement.

[Bella]

Ack, that was meant to be a PM.