Open 278: Empking's Five Player

[brokenscraps]

I think no-lynch is obvious, but how quickly?

[brokenscraps]

@Cthulhu: Are you an alt? You don't have to say who of, although that would be nice too given some of the things you've already said.

Of course a lynch would benefit them more, but now they are just along for the ride till the end of day 1.

I guess a no lynch would be a good idea but professing it in the first post doesn't seem to be conducive to helping the town.

Thinking scum would never push a lynch on a day like this and unthinking town might so this would've been little more than a distracting tell if it had been allowed to develop. Explained suspicions and cases are how scum-hunting will work on this day and you don't need votes to do this.

I agree with the logic of a D1 no-lynch, but since it was the first thing brought up obviously all scum has to do is agree.

-Please explain the part bvoigt highlighted
-Please explain how disagreeing with a no-lynch would've been a scumtell

[brokenscraps]

That's just the feeling I got from the first few posts, do you feel we can now have realistic, productive discussion if everyone knows we most likely will not end up lynching anybody D1?

This is an issue with the set-up and not with players simply stating the obvious. You painting discussion of a no-lynch as anti-town is misleading.

Well I don't think anybody would be quite dumb enough to completely disagree with a no lynch, since a mislynch d1 means a scum win, but I feel it's now to easy for the scum to hide out until end of day 1 because we aren't going to end up lynching anyone.

If scum lurk or hide today they can still be lynched on later days. Just because we're having a kill-free night phase in between doesn't mean what happens now won't count tomorrow.

[brokenscraps]

If scum lurk or hide today they can still be lynched on later days. Just because we're having a kill-free night phase in between doesn't mean what happens now won't count tomorrow.

I may be incorrect but with this set up is it even possible to go longer than 2 days?

I realize you've noticed your mistake but if you honestly thought this day could only last two days why would you be okay with a no-lynch when there are two scum in this game? Am I to take this as an announcement of your anti-town win-condition?

FoS: Stefunny

[brokenscraps]

I was reaching slightly, although I'm curious as to how Stefunny thought we would win the game with 1 lynch. She herself said once the no-lynch is brought up all scum have to do is agree, and the fact that she didn't actually seem to understand why we would be no-lynching makes it look like she is just agreeing because everyone else is.

[brokenscraps]

I don't think your idea is that good because the mafia could encourage the unknown cop to investigate someone they know is town.

In that case it will still provide something to scumhunt with tomorrow. Otherwise it could be a case of:

Day 1: Everyone no-lynches, not much revealed
Day 2:
Investigated scum: everyone just hops on that lynch, not much revealed
Investigated town: 50% chance of hitting scum without very much to go on
Day 3:
Investigated scum: 33.33% chance of hitting scum without very much to go on
Investigated scum: 33.33% chance of hitting scum using info from day 2 patterns

I'd prefer having something to go on tomorrow even if it means we don't have a confirmed scum to lynch.

[brokenscraps]

Okay so the statistics are better as a result of cop claiming but we would still have more to go on for scumhunting if we discussed and voted on who is to be investigated tonight.

[brokenscraps]

Top suspect definitely.

We should have a way of handling this as well. Cop vote counts and such, we should model it as closely to real voting as possible without actual voting.

Also, if there is a majority opinion that this is the right thing to do everyone should be expected to participate and the cop should conform to town wishes otherwise none of it is useful.

Now on to actual suspicions:

I've never played in a game where a No-lynch was even considered D1. When I count out deaths I count 2 a day, so I was sitting there eating lunch reading the thread on my phone and all I could think was in 2 days 4 will be dead, how does that make sense? Duh, no-lynch, that's how.

Stefunny didn't seem to realize that mafia have even night kills which seems like something mafia would know. I think she is probably town because of this.

I'm getting nullish-reads from bv310; him changing his mind without any sort of pressure shows he was thinking about whether voting for investigation was a good idea, but whether he was thinking about whether it looked scummy to suggest it or whether it would help the town is unclear. I'm leaning town because he would know that changing your mind is often targeted as a scum tell by players, but this isn't very strong.

Cthulhu needs to post a lot more but I'm a little wary of his apparent confusion over the set-up, it seems feigned compared to Stefunny's. Also:

I see but I was just wondering how discussion would start to begin with. I have to admit I wouldn't have picked up on it in my first post, I probably would have made a random vote then read the rules and took another look at the setup so I would have fallen for the trap, but that's mainly inexperience.

I don't think your idea is that good because the mafia could encourage the unknown cop to investigate someone they know is town. Your slight case of self doubt and backpedalling doesn't look that good either.

There seems a contradiction that he jumps on bv310 for rethinking something to do with how to play the game in the set-up while also saying he would've done the same thing (over a different issue, of course, but still similar enough that there is a contradiction if he finds one a town action and one a scum action).

bvoigt also could go either way right now; I'd love to know what he thinks of Stefunny atm.

Anyway,

CSI(Cop Should Investigate): Cthulhu

[brokenscraps]

I've pushed myself too forward in this game for me to have a better than average chance of avoiding the night 2 nightkill so I'm gonna go ahead and claim now:

I'm the one-shot publishing cop

.

Cthulhu is wrong about backpedaling in the way bv310 did being scummy (so is bvoigt); bv310 didn't change his mind because of pressure ("What's the use in killing them and then investigating them? Unless I have misunderstood the nature of this game." is not pressure or on-target questioning) and it isn't clear that he changed his position for scum reasons (he could have done so, but it isn't apparent that he did).

I was questioning the validity of his idea.

bv310 posted his changed position after you misunderstood his suggestion, not after you also called it a bad idea. He was in fact the first person in the thread to call the idea of voting who to investigate a bad idea.

BTW: Cthulhu, it would be nice if you could split your posts into easier to read paragraphs

You're right about this...Stefunny is probably town. Brokenscraps also looks town so far, so by process of elimination, the scumteam is Cthulhu/bv310.

bv310 and Cthulhu bussing would be interesting considering their suspicions on each other both seem pretty weak. I'm not prepared to buy it yet though especially since I'm starting to think you're scum.

bv310 hasn't done anything overly scummy, but I still don't like that he was so quick to change his mind when Cthulhu questioned him.

Doesn't seem right considering you also claim:

bv310 had a different idea, but also changed his mind based on its strategic merits. It would have been anti-town not to change his mind

You think he changed his mind for pro-town strategy ("doing this would be bad for town") rather than pro-scum strategy ("pushing this would look bad on me"), you think doing anything else would've been anti-town, yet you find it scummy (not "overly" but you do call him as part of a scum-team)?

unCSI: Cthulhu

CSI: bvoigt

[brokenscraps]

The first quote refers to post #26, when he changed his mind without any real reason. The second quote refers to...actually, I guess he never explicitly said that he had re-changed his mind, but #33 was mainly adding to what you said in the post before it...using numbers to show why it was a good idea to have the cop claim. Basically, #26 was scummy; #33 was null because it would have been anti-town not to agree with your logic.

How is #26 anything but null?

More opinions from Cthulhu and bv310 would be great, it's hard to scumhunt with no posts to look at.

[brokenscraps]

Do you really consider #25 to have provided any sort of pressure on bv310?

[brokenscraps]

Do you really consider #25 to have provided any sort of pressure on bv310?

Not much, which makes it more odd IMO.

Or it suggests that it wasn't pressure that made him change his mind and he actually rethought whether it was a good idea or not, just like he said?

@Stefunny: I'd rather hear from Cthulhu and bv310 before we start no-lynching.

[brokenscraps]

Following bv310's re-entry to the game I'll be fairly happy to no-lynch and investigate whoever the town wants.

I'm still happy with a bv310 investigation, could everyone clarify who they want to investigate?

If whoever is investigated turns up scum then still don't quicklynch tomorrow, we should have some discussion prior to ending the day.

[brokenscraps]

We investigating bvoigt then? I'll no lynch as soon as we're happy with the investigation.

[brokenscraps]

Clear decisions of one person to investigate please, lets see where you all stand.

[brokenscraps]

I don't want the day to end yet.

If the investigation snabs an innocent then this discussion will continue with more info tomorrow, if it gets guilty we'll still hopefully discuss for a bit before lynching, what do we get from dragging things on?

[brokenscraps]

bv310: bvoigt, Stefunny
bvoigt: brokenscraps, bv310

Cthulhu to choose unless someone changes their mind.

[brokenscraps]

Does anyone else think that bvoigt may have been bussing Stefunny at the beginning and once he saw an excuse to declare her obvtown jumped on it?

There are arguments both ways for lynching bvoigt today vs tomorrow. One wrong vote by a townie could lose the game either today or tomorrow, but it will be harder for scum to coordinate a mislynch today than to mislynch with one vote tomorrow. The odds either way are the same (assuming I die, which I will): remaining scum is one of three people, and two townies know it is one of two. Those three, if we lynch bvoigt right now, will be the same today or tomorrow. I still think we should probably lynch bvoigt today, but not until discussion today.

When I have more time I'll have a thorough rereading of bvoigt's interactions with other players done. I'd encourage everyone to do the same. Except bvoigt, sorry if this day gets extended...

[brokenscraps]

@mod:

In my situation, I really don't see any value in posting. Will you replace me if I don't post?

I'd have no problem with this and I doubt anyone else would. It'd be cruel to do anything else.

[brokenscraps]

We need bv310 in here.

That defense looks a bit strange Stefunny. You aren't confirmed town to anyone else. You did make a slip-up in terms of scum roles and while I find that strong it isn't conclusive, especially after confirmed scum jumped on it to clear you. In terms of "it almost would be better to push for somebody you think is town to be investigated if you are town" it seems possible that you switched to bvoigt last minute when you realized that a bv310 townflip would confirm you as scum to Cthulhu.

[brokenscraps]

VOTE: bvoigt

This is ridiculous.