Newbie 1060: It's a Murder Mystery (Game Over)

[snowjorden]

^ I really got no clue what all you're going on about. Like ..just seems like a whole bunch of rambling. So, was that a random vote to start things off or why did you elect to single out dude? Just wondering.

I've played these games at various other forums and we usually start off just random voting to see who bites. I'll continue that tradition in this game..

VOTE: mammut

[snowjorden]

@Snowjordan: What forums did you play mafia on before you came here?

Specifically, EWZine.com - I was referred to this site by one of it's current members (EGL).

Vote mammut

choo choo goes the bandwagon.

Not a big fan of bandwagons at all. Usually they are filled to the brim with SCUM. So;

FOS: Primate

@mammut: uh, you were meant to take the fact that you have two votes on you incredibly seriously. Me and Snowjorden are kind of a big deal in this game and I am sure that if snowjorden is voting you he must have some kind of reason why, even if he modestly brushes it off as random.

Excuse me? Please do not include me in your reasoning for anything you do sir. Yes ..I AM a big deal, but not so much specific to this game. More so, just in life. I'm a BIG f'n deal.. haha..

@Primate

Well, I'm pretty sure one of you have a reason why you are voting for me and since I didn't spoke before you and you both voted for me that tells me that there is some kind of a plot here even if you "modestly brush it off as random".

I can't speak for the Primate ..but where it came from me, it was random. If I wasn't so apposed to flip-flopping of votes, I'd have already taken my vote off of you cause I clearly see others who I think need to have pressure put on them.

-------

For now, that is all. Now to get the (almost) 3 year old off to bed for the night (9:30pm here where I live). I'll be checking back in on this in the morning. Hopefully you guys don't post an outrageous amount of stuff for me to have to sift through. But either way ..this seems to be quite fun already.

[snowjorden]

Kid went to sleep, thought I'd get up and check this. And ..another page. Sweet jesus. So I'm still kinda at a point where I've got nothing worthwhile to add to the conversation nor do I feel like we've made any ground. Usually is the case during the first day of a game. Either way, just wanted to speak up since some might have noticed I was "browsing this forum."

[snowjorden]

Just cause I feel left out ..I wanted to post some awesome pictures.



Oh and one more for good meausre..


And to make this relevant..

FOS: Voidedmafia

- For posting so many pictures of a character that I got no clue who he is...

[snowjorden]

^ That's why I didn't randomly vote anyone ..cause right, we are out of the RVS. I FOSd dude, cause ..well I can and I've wanted to for a while this game.

[snowjorden]

Checking in. Nothing new to add. Have fun with your vote on me GreyICE, it's pointless cause I'm not scum. But it's hard to change someones opinion when you can't just out yourself. So it's cool. Hopefully someone fucks up and we get a break to go on.

[snowjorden]

I have no need to come up with a defense at this point. It's not like he (GreyICE) has any sort of solid evidence as to why he suspects that I'd be "scum," he just simply said that he thought my posts were fishy. Okay ..well ..cool glad you think they are fishy. It's just me being, me. I'm eccentric or whatever you want to call it. No more so then the dude who continues to post pictures in every single reply he makes.

So defense? No ..no thanks. If you guys choose to try and move forward with this lynch ..well, that's a mistake and the town will lose. If there's 2 scum and 3 townies .. and you get rid of me, that leaves it at 2 - 2 and if the scum kills one of you cause you miss a block or something, end game instantly. Wow ..that'd be smart.

So no, no defense. No need for one. Now I'm having a cigarette break and going to bed for the night. G'day boys.

[snowjorden]

So defense? No ..no thanks. If you guys choose to try and move forward with this lynch ..well, that's a mistake and the town will lose. If there's 2 scum and 3 townies .. and you get rid of me, that leaves it at 2 - 2 and if the scum kills one of you cause you miss a block or something, end game instantly. Wow ..that'd be smart.

If you get lynched and flip town, that doesn't mean the town loses... this is only day 1. Your scenario assumes that you make it to end game. Also, in your scenario, as soon as you lynch the townie and get it down to 2-2, that's game over, as scum is equal to the number of townies. No need for night actions.

Um, I guess the rules as to how the game works is completely different here then where I've normally played. Where I'm used to playing the game, the object of the SCUM team is to have equal to or greater numbers then the TOWN. Where as the object for the TOWN is to remove all threats of the SCUM.

Therefore with the numbers being 3 TOWN and 2 SCUM, if I'm lynched and flip TOWN (which I will) that puts it at 2 - 2, and usually that means the game does extend that one last phase, this would be the Night Phase. It would take a perfect set of role usage by the two remaining TOWNIES to not end up with one of their members killed. Should the SCUM team manage to get one of their kills during the first night, that'd make it 1 TOWN vs. 2 SCUM, meaning ..at least where I'm from, SCUM wins.

Again, maybe I'm wrong. Could be played totally different here. I'm just trying to keep everyone from making a big mistake.

----------------------------------------------------------------

My real time thoughts while reading jordens last post:

I have no need to come up with a defense at this point. It's not like he (GreyICE) has any sort of solid evidence as to why he suspects that I'd be "scum," he just simply said that he thought my posts were fishy. Okay ..well ..cool glad you think they are fishy. It's just me being, me. I'm eccentric or whatever you want to call it. No more so then the dude who continues to post pictures in every single reply he makes.

Well, this no defense stance seems like a good defense to me, he sounds pretty relaxed.

So defense? No ..no thanks. If you guys choose to try and move forward with this lynch ..well, that's a mistake and the town will lose. If there's 2 scum and 3 townies .. and you get rid of me, that leaves it at 2 - 2 and if the scum kills one of you cause you miss a block or something, end game instantly. Wow ..that'd be smart.

Oh... well now hes freaking out and already talking about lynching after just 1 vote...

So no, no defense. No need for one. Now I'm having a cigarette break and going to bed for the night. G'day boys.

Oh, done with the post already? Not even going to respond to what I asked you? /bad.

That's because I am relaxed. I have no reason to fret, other then the fact I know that you guys are making the wrong decision to put any votes on me. And as far as your "well now hes freaking out and already talking about lynching." Well, that's because that's exactly what is going on here. Whether it's 1 vote on me, or 3, or more ..the concept of putting a vote on someone is to have the intent to get them lynched. GreyICEs vote.. means one step closer to a lynch. So I figured I might as well address the possible, instead of leave it out in the open.

As far as your question that I've apparently not responded to, well my bad. I don't remember seeing a question asked by you. I must have skimmed over it quickly then forgot about it. If you'd like to repost it, cool. If not, I'll read back and reply next time I check this thread. Otherwise, and until then ..it's just going to have to be left in the open.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I have no need to come up with a defense at this point. It's not like he (GreyICE) has any sort of solid evidence as to why he suspects that I'd be "scum," he just simply said that he thought my posts were fishy. Okay ..well ..cool glad you think they are fishy. It's just me being, me. I'm eccentric or whatever you want to call it. No more so then the dude who continues to post pictures in every single reply he makes.

So defense? No ..no thanks. If you guys choose to try and move forward with this lynch ..well, that's a mistake and the town will lose. If there's 2 scum and 3 townies .. and you get rid of me, that leaves it at 2 - 2 and if the scum kills one of you cause you miss a block or something, end game instantly. Wow ..that'd be smart.

So no, no defense. No need for one. Now I'm having a cigarette break and going to bed for the night. G'day boys.

Well I feel remarkably happy with where my vote is at.

That's cool. You should have confidence in your vote, otherwise you shouldn't vote for someone. On the other hand, your vote is remarkably inaccurate ..if your goal is to eliminate SCUM. Possible that you are in fact SCUM? ..maybe.

[snowjorden]

And what do you think of my case on sarg? Sargs case on Zen? etc?

I'm going to guess that these are the questions which were directed towards me? My bad ..though they came directly after a post in which you mentioned me by name, I didn't initially put two and two together and realize you were directing these towards me.

Okay, your case on Sarg.. Not real sure if it holds weight at this point. You are basically saying that because he's voting for Zen for asking questions, that makes him seem scummy. Eh, I think you're wrong about Sarg being scum, most I can say about that.

So far as Sarg's vote on Zen, If I knew what ISO meant I might be able to figure out better what was going on. But alas, I have no clue what ISO means. I know some of the mafia terms such as EBWOP, and FOS, and stuff, but never seen ISO used. So I'm confused as to that. As far as him getting fingers pointed at him for asking questions, that's just silly. You've aksed me plenty of questions and I'm not sitting here accusing you of being SCUM. See below..

In fact, quite the opposite. I'd almost venture to say that we are all three TOWN.

And ..after just now reading over the Moderators posts ..I realize where I've come to a sort of huge fuck up in my thinking. There are 9 players in this game, not 5. I kept thinking 5, cause it takes 5 to reach a lynch. Ah hell, so my whole 3-2 and 2-2 theory is shot to hell. Phew! That's actually quite relieving at this point.

[snowjorden]

@mb53 - Fair enough, your reasoning for why else to vote for someone does hold weight. Those are tactics I've used in other games I've played in order to get silent players to start talking. But in the thick of things, the main goal of voting someone is to lynch them. I've been talking the whole time so I doubt GreyICE was putting a vote on me in order to get me to talk or anything. And here you claim newbieness but I have no clue what AtE means either? Ugh ..explain that one too please? And yes, Sarg, You, and I. I feel like the three of us who are all town, are just sitting here bickering back and forth. The jury is out on GreyICE at this point as I've not figure out what alignment I feel like he belongs too.

@GreyICE - First off, I never said I've been following the game "closely." Hell, I didn't even notice when mb53 directly asked me a question. So no, I didn't notice that there were 9 players. Simple mistake. It should have registered to me that there were far more then just 5 people posting in the thread, but it didn't. As this game was taking place, I was running my own game over on the EWZine forums I spoke of earlier. The rest of your post ..eh, not really anything worth responding too. As at this point anything I say is going to just sound to you as a desperate attempt to change your mind which doesn't seem like it's going to happen. You appear to have your mind made up.

@Mhi200 - Correct you are about the SCUM win, if the numbers were as I had originally mistaken them for. Good thing they are not. I'm also not purposely painting any targets. I'll get to your second sentence momentarily. Very defensive? Really .. hrm, odd. I could have sworn that I've not been overly defensive as I've not utterly flipped out on anyone whose voted for me. I've simply attempted to put doubt in their mind, so they would realize the error of their ways. And constantly claiming town? Shouldn't EVERYONE in this game be claiming town? Thought so..

And, finally; "dying on day one as a townie is not a very big loss to the town tbh." It's only very likely to happen when people take this stance towards playing the game (and due to the numbers) and would rather just lynch someone instead of trying to lynch SCUM. In reality, it's a VERY big deal to the town, as you usually end up losing 2 people in the first two phases of the game. That's a big deal. To say it's not a big deal, that almost comes off like you are pushing for a mis-fire lynch with the reasoning that "it's okay, we'll get it back later." When in reality ..in such a small game, that kind of thinking could be horribly detrimental to the outcome.

---

And ..I'll give it a little time and probably have to go back on the "very defensive" mode.

[snowjorden]

You seemed to conveniently missed

(and is very li

(k)

ely to happen either way)

So ..I'm guessing you "conveniently missed" ...

It's only very likely to happen when people take this stance towards playing the game (and due to the numbers) and would rather just lynch someone instead of trying to lynch SCUM.

Because, I completely addressed what you said. Lol.

And, thanks for the list of mafia game common abbreviations. Haha.

[snowjorden]

Also I think it's a little odd that someone who doesn't know the amount of players in the game would assume there is a scum roleblocker, but that's probably nothing.

When I was thinking the numbers were 2 scum and 3 town, I'd have guessed the scum roles were night kill and role block. Now that I'm up to speed and realize we aren't playing a 5 person game (seems so dumb to me now), I'd think there's probably more like 3 scum, which means probably still night kill and role block, but add in a recruiter maybe?

I dunno. I was just going with the most obvious.

[snowjorden]

IoA setup speculation. Woah boy.

You really are grasping.

Seriously? The 4 possible setups are at the very beginning of the thread. Please get associated with the rules :/

Yep, just re-read it that post. Cool ..so there's at most 2 scum. Cool.

[snowjorden]

Wow ..really? This is why I wasn't going to defend myself at all. What's the purpose to even trying to come up with a defense when in doing so all I've done is get more people to vote for me? Anyone.. anyone?

Lol... it's all good though guys. Keep em coming and see how much of a bad idea it is when all is said and done. I really got nothing else to say, and I'm sure this will be construed as me having an "attitude," but I'm almost at a loss as far as what to say here. Anything I've said, has done me no good. When in reality, I've said nothing out of the ordinary. I've NEVER played a Mafia game with a 3 week phase, they've only been 48 hours at the max, and excuse me for having other things going on in life and forgetting some of the things I read 6 pages ago.

But yeah ..I'm out. Cause, I really am tired of digging a bigger whole.

[snowjorden]

..I didn't give up and go home. I was already at home when I posted that.

And, I've been bothering to play this entire time. I was saying "I'm out" as an expression. Like, ya know .."catch ya later."

So far as my hole ..well sweet, I've always wanted to visit China. Their culture intrigues me. That said, "act like it's the end of your world and not even submit a defense," ...isn't that what I've been trying to do this entire time? Isn't that what's dug this hole I got near me that leads down to China?

[snowjorden]

I have replied to people, many times. And the "going to china" was a joke. Jesus christ. Lighten up.

[snowjorden]

What am I suppose to say that is a "clear point?" I'm not a big fan of breadcrumbing and I'm sure that out and out role claiming is against the rules (maybe I should check that before I say that..). It's kind of hard to make clear and decisive points, instead of just "fluff," when you can't really out and out say much. I don't know what you want me to do at this point. What I'm suppose to do, at this point.

So yeah, take it how you will. Consider it giving up. Consider it whatever the heck you want. I don't know how to reply without it being seen as "overly defensive" or "fluff" or anything else.

[snowjorden]

Uh, and quite a few of the previous games I've played have a NO ROLECLAIMING rule...

[snowjorden]

No ..the fact that when I say something, it does nothing but hinder me. And when I say nothing it does nothing but hinder me. So what should I do ..say something and have it used against me, or say nothing and give you nothing to use against me? I'll go with the latter.

[snowjorden]

Build a defense? Okay ..I'm a townie. As seen in this role;

Welcome to Newbie 1060, XXX!

You are a townie.

Town Abilities: As a citizen of the town, you have the right to vote.
Win Condition: You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.
Confirmation: Please respond to this PM stating your role.

---

My proof? Well since it's against the rules to quote my original role pm from the moderator ..my proof is that no one else has claimed this role. So that's how I can prove that I have the role.

---

SERIOUSLY, what the fuck? You guys act like we have this massive stack of evidence in this file folder that I can just pull out and start scanning the documents and let you all read them. This is the FIRST fucking day. There is no building a defense. Seriously, you guys are clueless.

[snowjorden]

Or you can, you know, actually build a defense to prove to everyone your not scum?

...Nah, you're right, that's a crazy idea.

Or you can, you know, build an actual case against him, prove to everyone why he

is

scum?

....Nah, lets just pressure him into roleclaiming by yelling at him to build a defense when it is impossible to instead.

At least someone realizes that it's impossible to build a real defense.

Build a defense? Okay ..I'm a townie. As seen in this role;

Welcome to Newbie 1060, XXX!

You are a townie.

Town Abilities: As a citizen of the town, you have the right to vote.
Win Condition: You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.
Confirmation: Please respond to this PM stating your role.

Spoiler:

It's a start, since saying such a thing might cast doubt as to whether or not lynching you is a good idea. However, you could just as likely be a scum fake-claiming than to be actual town, so it is a possible case of WIFOM.

Or maybe I'm just picking one of the roles listed and posting it because you continue to ride my dick, like you want to be my girlfriend?

My proof? Well since it's against the rules to quote my original role pm from the moderator ..my proof is that no one else has claimed this role. So that's how I can prove that I have the role.

Spoiler:

So you're saying that becasue no one has claimed VANILLA TOWNIE, you have that role?

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Quite frankly, this is the most laughable part of your post here.

It was meant to be laughable. It was meant to be a "fuck off" type of statement.

I kindly direct you to read the four kinds of setup we could have in a newbie game, as I see you still apparantly have not bothered to read the rules, or even skim those first three posts.[/b]

Actually I have read them. I read them initially when the game first started, but was so involved with running my own game on another site that I didn't commit them to memory. After it was brought up to me that the setup of the game was not 2-3, I went back and RE-READ everything once more. So no.. no need to go read them for a third time.

SERIOUSLY, what the fuck? You guys act like we have this massive stack of evidence in this file folder that I can just pull out and start scanning the documents and let you all read them. This is the FIRST fucking day. There is no building a defense. Seriously, you guys are clueless.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Surely not as clueless as you.

Everyone else, no not so much. You ..yea, I'm starting to think so.

You see, even on the first day, we've had at least five pages worth of information to debate upon and defend with, and debated and defended it has, and this seems to be something you've missed. Your previous games of 48 hours a day are seriously clouding your judgment. I highly suggest you take a break and seriously read over the first three posts before you post anymore, before you embarrass yourself any further.

We've had no information to debate upon. You guys pulled posts from other mafia games that people have played on this site and tried to use that for examples as to why people could or could not be town/scum in this game. Either way, those games have NOTHING to do with this game. That's fluff if I've ever seen it. Nothing is clouding my judgement, and I'm not embarrassed at all. I'm simply just having a good time getting my dick wet, glad you got a warm mouth.

mb:

I think you miss my reasonings for my pressure.

see, his seeming obliviousness struck a chord within me, sounding off alarms in my head. This also prompted me to vote for him. Even if he has only played games where the days are 48 hours long, he certainly should've seen and been able to identify posts or comments that are fluffy and provide little to no information on the game. Not to mention that his defeatist attitude is not something we need now, for if he does survive to near the endgame or lylo, then this attitude could very well do the town in.

Defeatist attitude? I don't think I've been defeated. I'm still in the game. I think there's just someone clinging onto my ball sack and hoping that every time I take a step they don't lose their grip. That, being you. If anything, the way you've latched onto me trying to *looks for that wikipedia page with mafia game abbreviations* (damn, can't find one) get me lynched seems like the biggest scum tell so far out of anyone.

Spoiler:

If I pressure him to defend himself against this and either explain his attitude or whatever else, and he defends well enough to stop my alarms, I can drop my vote off him, though that shouldn't mean he should still squander and do nothing. However, if my pressure does nothing, as it seems to be doing right now, or sets him up to be more defensive (vibes which I'm also getting from his posts as well), then that probably means he's got something to hide, and continues to look suspicious.

Besides, despite how it might help him, I do not necessarily believe the role-claiming was a good idea, especially in light of what he's said surrounding said roleclaim.

Defends well enough? Dude, you haven't made a single case against me. Nothing concrete or solid. You've simply used (in your own words) "fluff" to try and point a finger at me. Be more defensive, less defensive, no defense, Ron Artest type Defense.. it's whatever. Nothing is changing your attitude or opinion.

Unvote
Vote: Voidedmafia

- Not a revenge vote. Not a defensive vote. Not anything or anyway you will try to spin it. I'm voting for you because I think you're trying WAY to hard to get me lynched, like you've got something to hide yourself. That's it. That's all.

[snowjorden]

EBWOP: My last one got fucked up, and instead of previewing the post, I submitted it. So that LARGE block of quoted text is fixed here..

I kindly direct you to read the four kinds of setup we could have in a newbie game, as I see you still apparantly have not bothered to read the rules, or even skim those first three posts.

Actually I have read them. I read them initially when the game first started, but was so involved with running my own game on another site that I didn't commit them to memory. After it was brought up to me that the setup of the game was not 2-3, I went back and RE-READ everything once more. So no.. no need to go read them for a third time.

SERIOUSLY, what the fuck? You guys act like we have this massive stack of evidence in this file folder that I can just pull out and start scanning the documents and let you all read them. This is the FIRST fucking day. There is no building a defense. Seriously, you guys are clueless.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Surely not as clueless as you.

Everyone else, no not so much. You ..yea, I'm starting to think so.

You see, even on the first day, we've had at least five pages worth of information to debate upon and defend with, and debated and defended it has, and this seems to be something you've missed. Your previous games of 48 hours a day are seriously clouding your judgment. I highly suggest you take a break and seriously read over the first three posts before you post anymore, before you embarrass yourself any further.

We've had no information to debate upon. You guys pulled posts from other mafia games that people have played on this site and tried to use that for examples as to why people could or could not be town/scum in this game. Either way, those games have NOTHING to do with this game. That's fluff if I've ever seen it. Nothing is clouding my judgement, and I'm not embarrassed at all. I'm simply just having a good time getting my dick wet, glad you got a warm mouth.

mb:

I think you miss my reasonings for my pressure.

see, his seeming obliviousness struck a chord within me, sounding off alarms in my head. This also prompted me to vote for him. Even if he has only played games where the days are 48 hours long, he certainly should've seen and been able to identify posts or comments that are fluffy and provide little to no information on the game. Not to mention that his defeatist attitude is not something we need now, for if he does survive to near the endgame or lylo, then this attitude could very well do the town in.

Defeatist attitude? I don't think I've been defeated. I'm still in the game. I think there's just someone clinging onto my ball sack and hoping that every time I take a step they don't lose their grip. That, being you. If anything, the way you've latched onto me trying to *looks for that wikipedia page with mafia game abbreviations* (damn, can't find one) get me lynched seems like the biggest scum tell so far out of anyone.

Spoiler:

If I pressure him to defend himself against this and either explain his attitude or whatever else, and he defends well enough to stop my alarms, I can drop my vote off him, though that shouldn't mean he should still squander and do nothing. However, if my pressure does nothing, as it seems to be doing right now, or sets him up to be more defensive (vibes which I'm also getting from his posts as well), then that probably means he's got something to hide, and continues to look suspicious.

Besides, despite how it might help him, I do not necessarily believe the role-claiming was a good idea, especially in light of what he's said surrounding said roleclaim.

Defends well enough? Dude, you haven't made a single case against me. Nothing concrete or solid. You've simply used (in your own words) "fluff" to try and point a finger at me. Be more defensive, less defensive, no defense, Ron Artest type Defense.. it's whatever. Nothing is changing your attitude or opinion.

Unvote
Vote: Voidedmafia

- Not a revenge vote. Not a defensive vote. Not anything or anyway you will try to spin it. I'm voting for you because I think you're trying WAY to hard to get me lynched, like you've got something to hide yourself. That's it. That's all.[/quote]

[snowjorden]

I'm seriously not going thru and addressing EVERY single point you just tried to make in post 161 because most of them are literally rubbish, but I will speak towards 162. IF (and that's a big IF) I have a defensive or defeatist attitude, it's only because nothing I've said thus far has stopped you from clinging to me. There comes a point when it becomes pointless to try and argue with someone. That point was reached pages ago when it comes to you and I. Nothing, and I mean, NOTHING I say ..has changed your mind. You are STUCK in this thinking that I'm acting as if I've already been defeated, or that I'm overly defensive. That's your thinking. Fair enough. I'm done trying to argue the point with you.

Moving on, anyone else got anything worth while to talk about or discuss?

[snowjorden]

^ quick note before i go have a smoke ..you TOLD me to be defensive. Lol..

[snowjorden]

For those who wanted me prodded, well I've been prodded. That being said, I usually only get to see my 3 year old little boy on the weekends as his mother and I don't live together and she usually doesn't let me have him much. I've had him since last night though cause she came down with the flu (due to the fucked up weather here in the midwest the past week or so) ..with that now being known, I'm still active. I will be active. I will be playing. But I won't be on here as much as I was the past couple days. I haven't even read the past like 3 pages of this game, because I simply haven't had the time to. I've logged in, scanned the game to see if I'd been lynched or if I needed to put him down in front of Spongebob and put up a new defense, so far so good. Besides this new "Lady Lambdadelta" being on my ass. But at least for now I'm still in safe range.

So yeah, I'll be fully in with the game by Sunday. Less then 48 hours from this post actually. So no need to prod me again.

[snowjorden]

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back on. I watched WWE Elimination Chamber and spent some time with my girlfriend after the kid left. I'm navigating back to page 7/8 and picking up where I left off. In due time (tonight) I will have posted and responded to ALL criticism, thoughts, and the like. I realize I'm at L-1 right now, hopefully people will hold off until I have a chance to put a "defense" up (the "" because people were on me about defensiveness before, so I want to speak carefully).

[snowjorden]

EBWOP: Okay, I'm at L-2 now, apparently. Either way, working on a post starting ..now!!

[snowjorden]

Snowjordan's vote on Voided looks INCREDIBLY scummy, and an OMGUS vote. No matter how many times you say it isn't, that doesn't make it true.

It might look incredibly scummy of me to vote for VoidedMafia, but it was in fact not, nor was it an OMGUS vote. I felt that if he was that hard-up for trying to get me lynched and push a case against me, he must have something of his own to hide. I know my alignment, therefore I know that I'm town. I don't know anyone else's, but am smart enough to realize that the SCUM do know who each other are and who the town people are. Therefore with the way VoidedMafia came at me so hard, it led me to believe he was a SCUM player. So, I wanted to put a vote in on him. Hoping others might agree with my thinking and follow suit. As we can see now, nearly 7 pages after my vote that's not the case.

And smoking is bad for you! Stop that!

No way! I just had one before posting on here, and will likely have to have one half way through this post. I know it's bad for me, but I enjoy it. So ha!

Snowjorden

Overall newbie plays of Scum : Lame arguments, poor defense because he claims ...

SCUM - Priority number 1

Welcome to the game, first off. Second, let me dive right into your overall analysis you made, specifically towards me. Lame arguments? Fair enough. Poor defense because I claimed? I was only using the claim as a way to show that at this point in a game, there's really no way to prove innocence. It's one word against another. There's no evidence from write-ups to quote and go on. There's nothing. There's simply people and their thoughts or ideas. You call it lame and poor. I call it realistic. Because fact is, there's no way to prove anything at this point. Just like right now, with the fact I'm sitting at L-2 (or was when writing this part of my post) ..I can't do much to defend what others think. I can warn them that they are wrong in their thinking. You are wrong in your thinking. But I can't really offer much that would help sway your opinion.

Also, snowjordan, mhi, what's your reads on the new guy?

SCUM or TOWN, I have no clue honestly. My gut feeling says TOWN with a horrible sense of direction for his intent.

Well, I still think zen is town. And that jorden is town. Jorden seems like the perfect wagon for scum to ride on for an easy mis lynch.

Which is why I think some people currently voting for me need to be looked at closer, instead of just blindly following their lead.

1. You don't like bandwagons? Bandwagons are an essential part to the game and gathering info. What you are suggesting is anti-town.

2. You are opposed to switching your vote? Town should not care if they change their vote. Their first instinct should be to catch scum, and change their vote if they need to. This reads to me like you wanting to stay under the radar, and you being worried about being called out on vote-hopping.

3. So... you are opposed to bandwagons... but you don't want to change your vote? Hmmm.....

1.) Bandwagons are not really an essential part of the game or gathering info. To say that if someone is lynched, it was a bandwagon, is an incorrect statement. 5 votes can be just that, 5 votes. A bandwagon is when someone is targeted, and then people start piling on the votes in an effort to get that person lynched with no real credibility behind said voting. That is SCUMMY. To say it's not, is just asinine. What I was suggesting, was not anti-town.

2.) Town shouldn't care if they switch their vote. But when you're playing such a thin line like I have, and you've had people literally picking at your every word, you don't want to "flip/flop" as that's often times seen as a newbie-scum trait for someone who is just trying to get players eliminated. I've played a few of these games before, and seen newbie players who flip/flopped get jumped on quick for that kind of behavior. So I didn't want that to be ANOTHER thing held against me.

3.) ..you make no point what so ever here.

Nice Scum Claim bud. In my PM, the XXX is replaced by MY NAME.

You simply copied the PM Equinox posted in his rule set.

No shit, and in my PM the XXX is replaced by my name as well. But it's against the rules to post directly from our Inbox to the game thread. What exactly is the point you are trying to make, cause I'm not getting it.

Seriously ? I'm not into pity that much, and I still consider you should be aware of your situation. I don't think that due to the current situation LLD, GreyICE or me will change our mine on your case. You look scummy, very scummy. And it's still D1 so even if you are not, it's better for us to lynch than the contrary. I urge VoidedMafia, Sarg338 and Mhi200 to hop on the bandwagon. If you don't want to hammer until Snowjorden repost again, that's fine. But right now you should be aware that both of you are having anti-town behavior. Lynching is a part of the game, and lynching a someone who is playing a dangerous game (He doesn't want to recognize the Damocles' sword upon him) is a overall good choice.

I wasn't asking for pity, I was explaining why I wasn't posting. Is it really that necessary to twist my words? Weren't you the one who complained about that being done to you? (here - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2803052 - something about "Don't transform my writings.") Okay, I wasn't asking for pity. I don't understand how you could think "you look scummy, very scummy so even if you are not, it's better for us to lynch you than the contrary." Okay ..agreed it's better to NOT let a member of the SCUM team survive, but it's NEVER better to lynch a member of the TOWN. With 2 scum, the most possible kills SCUM could have is 1, so if no one is lynched, SCUM kills 1 town so town is just down 1 player. If we lynch a member of the TOWN, and they kill a member of the town, we are down 2. How the hell is it good to lynch a member of the TOWN? You have horrible reasoning and thinking.


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And because I just read page 15, I guess anywhere I've said I was at L-2, I'm actually at L-1. I was under the assumption that based on the convo between LL/Oto I had been unvoted by someone. I was bouncing between numerous pages of this game and trying to keep up with the current posting, so I got just as confused. My apologizes. Either way. There's an up-to-date reply. Ask more questions if necessary. I figure I might as well defend myself before asking questions of my own and giving my overall reads on the game so far.

[snowjorden]

That would be called tunneling, I believe. And you think that is bad?

I'm not sure I understand the question, could you maybe rephrase? What are you asking if I think is bad?

I'd vote for you just for that, but that'd be stupid. Regardless, stop smoking!

Going to have another one, right now actually.

How can you be so sure there's nothing at all? You honestly believe that in all 15 pages we've had so far for D1 there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in regards to information or anything that can sway someone to really being town or scum?

I am not an investigator in real life. Therefore my deductive reasoning based on reading text from someone isn't that good. Maybe it's just me. Maybe you guys are fantastic at it. Either way, what I've always done in other games is create a spread sheet and compare who is mentioned by forum name and who is mentioned by character name in the write-ups together and try to come up with a real dissection of who can be who, to figure out possible roles and use that as a guide as to who to be voting for. I've been very successful in the other games, actually.

Question: Why do you keep capitalizing scum or town?

I can stop if you'd like. I'm sorry. I do it to make it easy for people to see when I'm speaking to one alignment or another. Sometimes I get so lost in my own thoughts I forget to do it though, as you can see from the previous post I made where I forgot at times.

1.) But what if people pile on votes to get someone lynched and actually have valid reasons for doing so? Wouldn't that still be bandwagoning?

2.)I don't know. Town or scum, it seems like being too wishy-washy with your vote (or at least not explaing your voting/unvoting half the time) would be a very bad idea. But I'd agree that flip-flopping is generally a bad idea.

1.) Valid reasons is not really bandwagoning. At least, not how the term has always been used where I've played before.

2.) Glad you agree that flip-flopping is generally a bad idea. I tend to think so too, thus why I wasn't doing so. But, as far as my vote on VoidedMafia, I'm going to

Unvote

for now.

[snowjorden]

I don't know how you can hope to be followed if all you do is saying that people are wrong in their thinking. Convince them instead. What you did there was not convincing.

My hope was that enough people would realize the logic that someone who was that hard-pressed to get a lynch on me, probably was only doing so to get attention pointed in the wrong direction. I wasn't trying to convince anyone to vote one way or another. That's up to each individual player to choose which way they should vote. I only wanted to give them a second line of thinking.

And again you have nothing to add to your defense. Claiming that we are wrong isn't getting you anywhere. And nobody ask you to prove but to convince, which again you don't.

What is there to add to my defense? I know what alignment I am, therefore the only defense I can see as being plausible and realistic is saying; yo, i'm town! Seems very reasonable to me. Sorry it doesn't to you.

The probability that one of the people voting for you is a scum if you flip scum is low. Nobody sane buses in D1. However since your lynch crystallize the attention right now, your alignment (if you are lynch today) will give us precious informations.

I see this as the exact opposite. And we will just have to agree to disagree I guess. Being that I know my alignment, I'd venture to say that there are scum on this wagon.

How can you possibly say that I modified your sayings ? You maybe didn't want us to pity you but you give us an excuse to stall your lynch, which I don't like so I said that I'm not into pitying you because you have things to do.

In blue, I present what is for me a scumtell. Scum have something to lose with a lynching in day 1, townies doesn't. Sure it hurts the town, but not AS MUCH as a scum lynch hurts the scum. You don't want to take the risk of a you being a town-mislynch but I'm willing to. The reward is much bigger than the risk. The odds are fairly good considering your lack of arguments if we except the " I'm right, you are wrong. "

Overall, I won't change my vote on him. It may well be newbie play but nothing here made me even slightly reconsider myself.

I'm saying you acted as if I wanted pity for my situation, when that wasn't the case. Did you modify anything I said? No. But you spoke as if I was asking for something I was not. As far as your part in blue and that. You being okay with mis-lynching, is a scum-tell to me. Just as much as me not being okay with a mis-lynch is a scum-tell to you. There's two lines to every thought, more then two when you have 9 players actually. Point is, what to you may seem scummy, doesn't seem that way to others and vice versa. The reward is not much bigger then the risk to me, because I know that I'm town and this is a mistake. How you can't accept that as a valid argument is beyond me.

You said you voted for me because of my dogged persistence towards you. I believe that is called tunneling. I am asking if you believe such an act as tunneling is bad.

As is the case with various types of play, it can be both good and bad. In this case, tunneling could be bad if I only chose to concentrate on you and not keep an open mind to the possibility that others might be scum. As you can see though, I've taken my vote off you and am looking at other possibilities as to who we should be looking towards. Either way, tunneling is not the best option in a game. It didn't hinder or hamper the game in any way though.

Neither am I. However, despite the fact that I am generally not very trusting of what my opinions or searchings are, I could probably pinpoint at least 2-3 bits of useful information from the last 15 pages, and I'm sure you could, too.

I really haven't found much useful information so far, as odd as that might sound to you, Oto, and everyone else who is under the impression that we've got clues already. I don't think we've encountered any scummates sticking up for each other. I don't think we've even seen any sort of slip-ups by scum thus far.

And I don't quite understand your set-up that you talked about here. Care to elaborate?

In various other games I've played, during the Night Phase as to not give away who certain players are, the write-ups were done not only using player roles, but also their names on the forum. I come from a place where literally EVERYONE on the forum is familiar with each other. So writing "Forum Poster #1 was walking around when approached by Character Role #3" gives less information away in some instances. I would then input that information into my document, and remove the possibility that #1 had Role #3, and so on and so forth. It's helped to narrow down games a lot in the past, and even been a winning formula in quite a few of the games I've played.

I wouldn't know. That'd be something I'd have to confirm with the SEs or IC.

Also, care to point to anything I've said that made you unvote? The fact that you unvoted RIGHT AFTER saying (or rather, agreeing with me) that flip-flopping votes is bad isn't a good idea.

I unvoted you because I would rather do it now, when it's out in the open about my stance on flip-flopping, so it's not seen as such. I want to keep an open slate as to who I put my vote on, when the time comes that I can do so in a manner which will help the town. Should something happen and you become the target we deem to go after, I'll put a vote back on you. Should you not at all be questioned, then I won't re-vote you and I'll continue as I am now, to look for others who I think warrant a vote more then you do. I think more so then anything your persistent questioning and harassment-esque play towards me was merely a way to try and get questions answered now that I have had time to re-read over the game, which I did when making my long awaited reply to the game.

[snowjorden]

@Otolia, I certainly can do so.

Leaning Town

*blank*

Unsure

Voidedmafia - I initially had thought there was a good chance that VoidedMafia could be scum, but more so based on his constant attempts at coaxing me into some sort of troll-esque argument, where he'd be able to twist my words to make me look scum, all the while diverting attention away from himself. I really feel though, that he was just really trying to dig for answers or clues.

Sarg338 - I haven't a single read on this guy. He seems to not really give anything way and only has something to say when it gives no hint either way. Honestly, I have no real read.

Otolia - I'm not a big fan of the persistent questioning and droning on, but I understand the practice. I just wish I've had more a chance to do so instead of being on the defensive end of the tactic. I feel conflicted when it comes to this player. In one sense, I view him in the same way i do VoidedMafia, but feel like I have to be wrong with one of them.

Primate - No read. No real information. Hasn't really made a case for himself either way. Would love to hear more out of him.

GreyICE - Probably town, but not sure why. Just kind of seems that way to me.

mb53 - Seems like he's probably town as well. Just one of those, along for the ride, type of people, or so he comes off as. Others might mistake that as a scum-tell, I see it as someone with no real clues as of yet.

Lady Lambdadelta - Overly pushy. Seems driven to get a lynch, as does Otolia. I don't think that's the most positive game play style, but to each their own.

Mhi200 - Again, nothing real to go on here.

Leaning Scum

*blank*

- As you can see, I've left the "Leaning Town" and "Leaning Scum" parts blank, and put everyone in unsure. Because to be 100% honest, that's where I stand right now. If I haaaaaaad to put people in a catagory, my "Leaning Scum" would be a combination of VoidedMafia, Otolia, and Lady Lambdadelta but only because of their playing style. To me, pushing so hard for a lynch is costly. Day 1 lynches seem more scummy to me, and have always been seen as such on the other site I play Mafia on. With the numbers stacked in favor of a mis-lynch in Day 1, I always understood the reasoning that it was a scummy trait to push hard for a lynch with no real evidence to back up such a view point.

There ya go, now time for a cigarette and bed. It's 1am, here. I'll be checking this when I wake up. Hopefully less questions towards me, so I can ask some of my own!

[snowjorden]

Anyone else feel exactly like SnowJordan has hydrad when they read the ISO?

There's no fucking way in hell this is the same human being we had on day 1.

It's a combination of a lot of things that cause my mood swings (that eccentric thing). Your last line makes me laugh uncontrollably though. My girlfriend, my mom, lots of people tell me that dealing with me on an hourly basis is like dealing with a new person. So, funny shit to see you say that too. Bah, I'm suppose to be in bed already! Damn MafiaScum.net player EGL for keeping me awake!!

[snowjorden]

EBWOP: By the way, what does hydrad mean?

[snowjorden]

@GreyICE - No, I assure you. I'm the same person. Lol.. and no one edited my post, nor did I even re-read over it and edit it.

[snowjorden]

And while he's busying offering a whole long textual explanation of how people don't do whatever, I can be your physical proof that people do do whatever it is he's saying, without editing. I didn't put the ".." or the hyphen just to make you happy. My initial set of posts these last 2 pages were well thought out responses to the questions and points brought up by various players of this game, thus my more "educated" reply. It's usually only when I'm typing in haste, trying to reply before the person presumably gets offline or more things start popping up, that I don't write in coherent sentences and such.

So yeah, I'm going to bed now that I'm once again at L-1. Peace out.

[snowjorden]

Wow ...this has slowed down tremendously.

[snowjorden]

Good game guys.

[snowjorden]

Jorden: You shouldn't have done what you did, or else you would've been in longer than this.

What did I did?