Mini 1126 - Game over - Was Averagely Suspicious saved?

[Bill McQuill]

Hello everybody. I thought I wanted to play in this game, and then I saw our Mod's av which implies that Homer Simpson might for some reason be a fan of the Pittsburgh Steelers... blech. But then I remembered what happened in the Superbowl, and I'm here to stay.

Hi ho Silver, away!

[Bill McQuill]

I like this guy

What guy?

[Bill McQuill]

Somehow I didn't think we could get to L-1 so quickly....XD

Errant - if you weren't at L-1 already I'd vote for you myself. You posted a rather unfortunate message about wanting to delay the game, then post an OMGUS vote and THEN say you had a case? Wow........

Um... what? You think Errant is at L-1? How is that possible?

I assure you he is not. See, look:

Vote: Errant Apathos

.

Your admission that you didn't vote to start Day 1 was silly at best, given that the game consensus was that it was likelier that scum players would want to delay the start. I'm thinking there's a decent enough chance that you're simply ballsy, and thought you'd be able to deflect the resulting attention into pressure on somebody else. Which doesn't bode well for you.

But seriously, how cautious do you have to be to think another player is at 6 votes when they're at 3?

FoS: Barry Allen

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[Bill McQuill]

I

FoS: Ashblade

for... Reasons unexplainable as of right now. Just a gut instinct.

That being said, I'll sheep. Because I like door prizes. o;

Vote: Erratus Apathos

Oh lord I've touched off an early-game FoS frenzy.

I don't like your "gut instinct" excuse or your complete lack of discussion of your vote. It's also really early to be putting someone at L-1. This concerns me.

Oh yes. My vote sucks. Along with the six other people voting for him.

5 other people. Or were you hoping it was a lynch already?

Ehehehemeee. No, this doesn't make any sense.

Wait, a frank admission that your reasoning doesn't make sense? Or did I miss something?

I also find it amusing that you accused another player of misinterpreting, then admit you didn't even FoS the right player.

[Bill McQuill]

Doh, I just realized I was misreading Bill's post, and that he was saying there's a decent chance of Erratus being town rather than scum.

No, that's a misinterpretation. A ballsy player from either alignment might post that they did not vote for the quicker day start.

Your admission that you didn't vote to start Day 1 was silly at best, given that the game consensus was that it was likelier that scum players would want to delay the start

. I'm thinking there's a decent enough chance that you're simply ballsy, and thought you'd be able to deflect the resulting attention into pressure on somebody else.

However, since I said that his decision to post was "silly at best," the contrast between that and "decent enough chance" is pretty clearly pointing in the direction of him being scum, though I guess I could have cleaned up the phrasing by just saying "ballsy scum." I don't think that there's much argument that the behavior I mentioned isn't particularly in the town's best interest, though.

The consensus is wrong. The later the start of day is, the later the end of day is, and thus the more time there is for discussion overall. Ergo, not voting to start the day is pro-town.

This is pretty hair-splitty considering that we'd have had an extra 24 hours at most, and I think you're pretty obviously discounting (since it's bad for your case) that in the pretty likely event that the scum can't daytalk that the bonus time applies equally to town and scum, and therefore benefits the scum more (for further proof, check out the several pages dedicated to pretending that Wikkiden wasn't here/cupcakes).

So Erratus is town yay let's move on.

Oh come on don't do this.

[Bill McQuill]

Wow, that's... quite an appeal to emotion you got there. You're not even under pressure there, chief. Maybe you ought to be.

Unvote, Vote: wikkiden

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[Bill McQuill]

AtE isn't a scum tell

He basically groveled for the town's forgiveness after an L-1 vote that approximately two players even commented on. He invoked being a newer player and apologized profusely for "ruining" the game after a more experienced player asked him why he skipped the Newbie game queue. He's trying to be deferential and cover his bases all at the same time.

That's slightly more than the average AtE.

and using buzzwords to try and get someone lynched is scummy.

This is a pretty staggering number of assumptions and faulty leaps of logic, condensed into half a sentence.

Let's start here: your quip - "using buzzwords to try and get someone lynched is scummy" - is essentially a sentence-long buzzword (rule of thumb, if you prefer), and so you're effectively using the same strategy to vote for me that I used to vote for wikkiden, which you purport to find suspicious.

[Bill McQuill]

Been running around like a headless chicken for several days now, and today will be no exception. I should have a chance to post substantively this evening (I'm PST, so that's like, late evening for most of you). Apologies.

[Bill McQuill]

All right, since I been gone:

It was a ridiculous post but not entirely unexpected, as he's obviously used to a significantly different type of mafia. I'm more concerned with you going after all the really obvious targets and generally attacking bad play rather than finding scum.

Attacking bad play may not exactly equate to finding scum, but the idea is that certain patterns of bad play are bad

because

they tend to reveal scum to be scum. I think one tendency of newer players who draw scum is to be overly deferrent to the overall town's opinion and to plead their newness as a defense, and his ridiculously "heartfelt" apology rings of both of those to me. Another tendency of scum is to come to the early defense of players perceived as new, since they're more likely to make mistakes later in the game and make easy mislynch targets, so your defense here is also noted.

Bill, real quick

you are using a null tell to make wikki seem scummy and only using that reason for your vote is a failure to scum hunt

my vote is noticing you aren't scum hunting and using a null tell to make wikki seem scummy. If you had other reasons you should have posted them at the time of your vote, but using AtE alone is not reason to lynch anyone.

I still think wikki's post was an exceptional case. I agree that AtE is not alone enough to lynch somebody, but I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to apply early-day pressure to players who are prone to it.

I knew people were going to pile on you for your pre-game post, and I think you deserved the scrutiny, but I felt no need to hop aboard your band wagon when it almost certainly wasn't going to amount to anything and others were going to say what needed to be said anyway.

So... you agreed with a wagon's reasoning, you "knew" that players were going to agree with you and form a wagon, but... you didn't want to join the wagon for mysterious reasons related to your foreknowledge that it wasn't going anywhere? That is a pretty extremely ineffective way to play, and it's convenient that you wanted your cake and to eat it to by mentioning that you thought he deserved scrutiny after the fact of that scrutiny.

And everyone that's saying I'm trying to use AtE, excuse me for being sincere. I could care less about appealing to anyone's emotion, I just like to own up to and take responsibility for my mistakes. And if you guys would all rather me play Bad Cop and yell in your faces, that can be arranged.

Man, it might be nice if you did, since the opposite appears to be getting you nowhere useful.

I would also like to point out that AshBlade has been EXTREMELY fickle. @Post #111, he jumped on a not-so-RVS wagon, understandable. @Post #142, he points out how I look scummy, points out how Barry looks scummy, and switches his vote to Hiraki. @Post#153, he adds to the offenses against me, and points out that he supports a Bill lynch. @Post #167, he continues to FoS Barry of lurking (After saying in Post 142 that he thought Barry was all over the place), and he switches his vote to Subgenius.

His statements are inconsistent with each other, he hasn't kept to the same FoS's for more than two posts in a row (Even after commenting on how FoS's were little more than a joke), he has brought suspicion against 6 out of the 13 people playing, and I have literally commented on every single post he has made, except for his most recent (Post#176), which is irrelevant at present. He has had nothing to say to help stir up discussion, nor has he said anything beneficial to the town. All he is doing is throwing out a few sentences on the many people who he has found to be acting scummy. He's going after the smallest scum-tells he can find.

That's a bit better. Just so long as the rest of your D1 posting isn't more and more hand-wringing.

I've played a grand total of two games in that time, but hop aboard the wagon anyway. There's still more room.

Hackles raised.

I like Barry's 203. Still think my reasoning for voting EA was pretty clear, but him finally taking a stance is encouraging.

P.S. If mockingjaye flips scum Rob must be turbolynched with extreme prejudice.

Ah, the lurker hunt. Timed about right. I'm confused by this sentiment about Rob, though. Not a huge fan of the "If X, then Y must be lynced" approach, though, but I get the feeling PZ's not real into deigning to explain his reasons for saying things, given his earlier proclamation of EA's townieness.

Oh, it makes perfect sense. But we'll get to that later.

I was right!

Agree totally with EA's 227, though I find that the Taco Bell shits don't generally hit until I'm in my car on the way home.

I'm saying it's shady for you to hop on my bandwagon late and then prod Zito about why he doesn't have his vote on me. I think it makes you look a bit blood thirsty.

But I agree with this too, in principle. I'm willing to label Barry's play as "perplexing," but I might not go so far as to say "scummy" yet.

bill, were your ears ringing? that was awfully convenient by the way

I don't like this kind of limp-wristed reaffirmation of suspicion, which you and Ash and Snake have all posted some form of.

Bullshit and you know it. Erratus wagon was opportunistic. Bill was the one who liked opportunity.

Rob is just being stupid at the moment. Bill was scummy, and he knows it.

And for the record, there is no possible way that I'm lurking. It's D1, 11 Pages. I've had no prod checks.

Here's a better question.

Rob. Why aren't you voting me?

Passcue me? Am I the only one being raked over the coals for "opportunistically" voting for Erratus in this post? And what's with the over-defensiveness about whether or not you've lurked? And how would Rob's answer to that question give you any information at all? Is there something scummy about... not voting for you?

6 posts in other games since this question, and still no answer. Are you avoiding us? Do we smell funny?

Wow, you are one fidgety player.

Wikki actually reads more like the classic day 1 mislynch to me, although scummier than the typical one.

This... is a strange thing to say. Scummier than the typical classic day 1 mislynch, eh?

My top 3 after all of that:
1. subgenius - Has spent a lot of time under pressure, has done almost nothing constructive during that time except lash out at the people voting for him, is extremely fidgety about phrasing and post frequency, both of which look like desperate attempts to build mountains out of molehills and survive.
2. mockingjaye/bvoight - We've come a pretty long way to have contributed nothing whatsoever of any substance, and I really don't like ending days with a complete null-read on somebody.
3. wikkiden. His most recent post was better, but since then it's been radio silence, which is what I'd expect from a player who's trying to distance himself from a massive emotional apology earlier in the game. There's also the contradiction that EA pointed out.

Unvote, Vote: subgenius

. That's L-1. I think of particular note is his post 199, where he welcomes more pressure in a cavalier manner that appears to make him look confident he can deflect the pressure, followed by his subsequent accusations against the most recent members of his wagon and his constant stream of argumentativeness instead of actual analysis.

[Bill McQuill]

+1 but I want to see what the replacement does.

Right here, champ. Posted pretty recently, take a gander!

When called out on lurking by more than one player, we suddenly have an active Bill voting to take subs to L-1 (whether he is bussing or simply appealing to the town)...

Man, it sure is easy to make people sound scummy when you phrase things negatively!

[Bill McQuill]

You of all people should have known that the contradiction EA pointed out was not a contradiction at all.

Bzzt! I'm so sorry, the response we were actually looking for was "You're so right Bill McQuill, I guess I'll go sit in that corner."

The contradiction EA pointed out is that wikkiden claimed, in separate posts, to know the number of other people on the wagon, and then

not to have counted the votes before casting the L-1 vote

. Here, I'll show you, since you can't be arsed to look it up yourself:

@wikkiden, explain how in the world the bolded statements here aren't contradictory:

Oh yes. My vote sucks.

Along with the six other people voting for him.

I'm sorry. I know I should have started in a newbie game, and I know I look extremely scummy right now. I apologize that me feeling like I could just jump right into a mini game could ruin this game for all of you. Honestly, I don't have much I could possibly say in defense of myself right now.

I know no one will believe me, but I truly didn't count the votes

, nor did it occur to me how serious my voting would be. I also did not realize that I was opening up an opportunity for mafia to throw open the floodgates and blitz a mislynch. But practice makes perfect. And you gotta learn from your mistakes. And I've learned all right. .-. But that's truly all I can say. I'm not going to sit here and beg you not to lynch me. I know I look scummy as all get out. I know what I'd think if I saw anyone else do that. But if I'm getting lynched, I wanna go out on a good note, and I truly do apologize for plunging on in here without a clue as to what I was doing. >.<

[Bill McQuill]

Am I out of line to be irritated and a bit suspicious that GreyICE is clearly quite active in other games while ignoring this one despite having questions awaiting his answer? This seems entirely unacceptable to me. Is there any possible town motivation for purposely dragging his feet likes this?

Allow me to answer that question with another question: Is there any town motivation for obsessively pointing out even the most generic of suspicious behaviors of every other player in a game while under suspicion yourself?

Or are you just casting suspicion around on people who are pushing your wagon?

Ding ding ding.

[Bill McQuill]

This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black if I've ever seen one.
I hope the irony isn't lost on you.

And I hope the incorrectness of you using the word "irony" in this context isn't lost on you. But then, I guess it must be, since you used it in such close proximity to the "pot calling the kettle black" thing.

But let's analyze further:

Is there any town motivation for obsessively pointing out even the most generic of suspicious behaviors of every other player in a game while under suspicion yourself?

This is what I've accused you of. I pointed it out in my longer post I made a page back, about you being "fidgety," and I think there are indisputable ways in which you've done the same thing to Barry and Rob, and now Grey.

So you're accusing me of doing what I accused you of, which - again - is: to "obsessively [point] out even the most generic of suspicious behaviors of every other player in a game while under suspicion [one]self." So... show me where I've done this? I took EA to task early on for his pre-game behavior (in a way that a lot of people found scummy and/or confusing, you being on the latter half of that continuum), I tried to call the game's attention to wikkiden's huge overreaction to "accidentally" putting a player at L-1 (in a way that people apparently found scummy for a different set of reasons), and now I'm voting you for reasons I made clear in the longer post and that are now being reinforced. Your continued refusal to contribute to the discussion in any meaningful way (other than, now, yelling at GreyICE for refusing to answer an essentially unanswerable question) is reallllllly not helping your cause here.

[Bill McQuill]

Man, every time 24 hours pass... threadsplosion.

Reading now. Also making dinner. I'll be back.

[Bill McQuill]

Reading now. Also making dinner. I'll be back.

Tomorrow, it turns out. Grading papers intervened. Apologies.

[Bill McQuill]

Oh, hello there thread.

I understand that my posting Day 1 did not inspire much confidence, and that my busy-ness was poorly timed, and at the risk of adding to that ire: I cannot post tonight. I have a very major deadline that hits tomorrow. If I do not have time to make a post by early in the day on Friday, I will ask to be replaced. After this it really should be smooth sailing for my free time, so if you all can hold off until then I would be appreciative, because I am fully caught up and ready to inspire the confidence that my Day 1 posting did not if you'll give me a chance to get my shit together.