Open 288 - Mayo Clinic (Game Over!)

[Kagetora]

/confirm
I don't notice any odd words in my telegram

[Kagetora]

Ha found it! Albatross
/confirm

Correct.

[Kagetora]

/confirm
I don't notice any odd words in my telegram

vote: Kagetora

Well with nothing much else to go on at this point...

Vote: Pacman

[Kagetora]

WOW. I just found scum with a joke. Today's gonna be a good day.

confirm vote: Kagetora

Kinda hard to accurately read "jokes" online. Especially in these type of games.

[Kagetora]

Also curious on exactly how the logic process worked to "prove" I'm scum. You random vote me, I have nothing against me other than "I didn't read my PM very closely" and how do I defend against that? When I counter-random vote it makes me scum?

[Kagetora]

I voted you before the game even started, that should have clearly not been serious. And your vote wasn't "counter-random" as I hadn't placed a random vote on you. I had a fake vote on you that didn't even count because it was before the game. Let's take that term apart real quick.

Valid point. Lynch me if you wish.

Unvote

[Kagetora]

Lynch me if you wish.

ATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATEATE

If you wish to call it that sure. I admit I was in the wrong and I don't see enough evidence to convict someone else or any evidence to defend myself.

Counter-random. Oxymoronic in and of itself, random in this case means without purpose, except that the purpose of the vote is to counter.

I'm pretty sure what I meant was clear enough, even if it wasn't denotatively what I said. If you wish me to truly elucidate on what I meant please ask for a clarification rather than nitpick about the exact definitions of words.

BUT. What are you countering? A vote that didn't count because it was made BEFORE the game? Technically there was no vote. So there was nothing to counter but you chose to counter anyway. Bit defensive, aren't we? What do you have to be defensive about, eh?

I withdrew my vote, and the inverse can also be said about you. Bit aggressive aren't we? What do you have to be aggressive about eh?

[Kagetora]

Not a convincing way to prove your innocence.

Unvote Vote: Kagetora

Is there a convincing way to prove my innocence at this point in the game? I have no actions to back up my words other than my concession of a point I hadn't fully thought out.

[Kagetora]

1. You have several options here. Obviously it's gonna be a bit before you lynched since we're on PAGE TWO, you could talk until you sound more town or you could build a stronger case on someone else in a few pages. Giving certainly isn't the way to go about continuing on in the game.

2. I'm not nitpicking about exact definitions. You contradicted yourself in two consecutive words! How is that even POSSIBLE?! It's rare to see people contradict themselves in consecutive posts and you did it in TWO WORDS. It's like a miracle.

3. Withdrawing your vote doesn't nullify the scumminess of it. And yes I'm being aggressive. You being scum is what I have to be aggressive about.

4. Again. Giving up on page 2 isn't the best way to go about it.

1 and 4. There is simply not enough evidence against me for me to argue against. Statistically I'm not mafia, but then a 1/4 chance is still pretty good odds for this game. I don't wish to give up, but there isn't a strong enough argument that I can put up that I think can save me.

2. Picking apart an oxymoron is indeed nitpicking definitions when you know as well as I do what I was implying. Also contradictions in the English language are everywhere, contradicting oneself in two words is not that difficult. Deafening silence, accurate estimate, unbiased opinion, science fiction, preliminary conclusion. Look! I just contradicted myself 5 times in one post! Now we all know what those mean, and if you really think lynching me over a single oxymoronic phrase makes sense then I guess there's nothing I can do to argue that.

3. Oh but doesn't it? If I were mafia wouldn't I be more interested in lynching somebody in general? I do not want to lynch today, and my vote against you was merely a response to the vote I incorrectly perceived to be against me. I withdrew it because I didn't have an argument that held up when scrutinized, and truly didn't make sense to myself anymore.

Lynching is not my priority, and really it shouldn't be the town's either. We are probably going to lose 2 people per night, with the mafia, 2 vigilantes, and a serial killer out, we have 4 potential deaths. The 6 doctors plus the mafia doctor theoretically protect 7 people. Lynching now would most likely cost us a doctor or vigilante, and the perilous conditions that would arise if we kill one of these two sets of people could vastly improve the chances of a mafia win. I don't want to do that.

[Kagetora]

Of being scum sure there's a 1/3 chance. Of mafia it's 1/4. I was merely referring to the latter.

I am most definitely not suggesting we no lynch forever, that would almost definitely give the mafia/sk a win. We simply have too great a risk of hitting a town person on the first day for us to, in my mind, validate a lynch.

[Kagetora]

@kage, if we have too great a risk to hit a town person on the first day, the same for the 2nd and so on..

As the total number of people decreases, the fewer options you have to mislynch. You also have voting patterns, death patterns, and more meaningful discussion to go off of so you're not randomly lynching.

[Kagetora]

I'm sorry i don't understand what you mean by "wifom"

[Kagetora]

Ok then well I'll open a final gambit because I'll probably get lynched by the bandwagon at this point.

I'm a vigilante and if you let me survive this day I'll do what I can to prove it to you.

I understand that you probably want to kill me because you've never seen my play style and am therefore a somewhat random factor in this game. I promise you I have not lied at all during this game and if you lynch me you can prove that.

[Kagetora]

Ok then well I'll open a final gambit because I'll probably get lynched by the bandwagon at this point.

I'm a vigilante and if you let me survive this day I'll do what I can to prove it to you.

I understand that you probably want to kill me because you've never seen my play style and am therefore a somewhat random factor in this game. I promise you I have not lied at all during this game and if you lynch me you can prove that.

Why would you accept defeat if you were such an important town PR?

There's 5 votes against me, and I remember that once votes reach a critical mass it's pretty common for others to vote with the bandwagon so as not to seem suspicious. Nothing else I was doing seemed to work. After consulting with another person I know we agreed this was probably the best course of action to take.

[ b ] text [ / b ] for bold text.

and, VOTE: kagetora

Your reaction to being jokingly accused was far too paranoid, sorry.

In hindsight I agree, but what's done is done. What I've said is what I've said, I take back none of it.

[Kagetora]

Ok then well I'll open a final gambit because I'll probably get lynched by the bandwagon at this point.

I'm a vigilante and if you let me survive this day I'll do what I can to prove it to you.

I understand that you probably want to kill me because you've never seen my play style and am therefore a somewhat random factor in this game. I promise you I have not lied at all during this game and if you lynch me you can prove that.

Why would you accept defeat if you were such an important town PR?

There's 5 votes against me, and I remember that once votes reach a critical mass it's pretty common for others to vote with the bandwagon so as not to seem suspicious. Nothing else I was doing seemed to work. After consulting with another person I know we agreed this was probably the best course of action to take.

[ b ] text [ / b ] for bold text.

and, VOTE: kagetora

Your reaction to being jokingly accused was far too paranoid, sorry.

In hindsight I agree, but what's done is done. What I've said is what I've said, I take back none of it.

Maybe you should consult with someone who's not a dumbass.

There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it. Players who can communicate outside of the forum postings may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage.

Also, you're scum AND need to be modkilled.

1. Maybe you shouldn't be so offensive?
2. It's someone I know in real life who's never visited this website.

[Kagetora]

Now to the Kage problem as people do suspect him as being mafia like. I do not disagree with people that people think he is mafia as he did act very scum like within his posts ( if people say to show evidence i can). But he did claim vigilante. we can see what he will do at night 1 since he said he wants to prove that he was vigilante, but yet again, he might kill the wrong person which worries me :/. I go both ways on Kage's case

To be entirely honest I'm leaning towards taking a shot at Pacman for railing on me so hard based on a misinterpretation that I think we both took too far. That being said, odds say he's a townsperson and I'm not sure I want to risk the fallout that would happen if he did end up being town which would probably result in my lynch and the loss of two townspeople.

No modkill will take place. However, the game should still not be discussed outside of the thread.

I would like to clarify that I have not discussed this game with anyone outside of this thread who also visits this forum. I was merely consulting with a friend of mine who I often play mafia with in real life. I both doubt this is, and hope that it isn't, against the rules.

SK's and mafia goons have exactly the same powers that vigilantes have.

With one key exception being that SK cannot die at night due to his bulletproof vest.

I would expect a newbie to give up more easily if he were a mafia caught in such a situation, but he has tried to defend himself to the very end.

Also to be entirely fair and open, I'm not entirely new. I have played before on another site that wasn't dedicated to this type of thing and was just a side interest. At the same time, the atmosphere there was more relaxed and it's been quite awhile since I last visited there.

As a final note, as I still do not see sufficient reason to truly lynch anybody thus far, with no actions and merely words that can be interpreted and misinterpreted, truthful and deceitful, I'm going to go with what I truly believed was the right course of action and...

Vote: No lynch

[Kagetora]

Sigh this is gonna be a long post. Curse you sleeping time

I hate when people don't understand the difference between not knowing who to lynch and wanting to no lynch. There's NO NEED OR RUSH to place your vote. No lynching D1 is ridiculously idiotic. You don't need to have your vote on it just because you don't have anyone to vote for.

I've always played, and still believe, that while you still have the opportunity to, lynching when you have no real reason to do so tends to be more harmful to the town than helpful. That's why I promote no lynch on the first day.

Putting things in "quotes" like that acts like you are quoting what was said by people, DESPITE THE FACT NO ONE SAID YOU WERE PROVED. You're making your situation worse than it is.

If I wanted to truly quote something, as I am doing, I would put it in the quotes that the forum provides for us. "Writing something like this" is more or less akin to using your fingers in the air, not a word for word quote. You're misreading my post.

I... I... I... So we caught him, eh? Everyone was so focused on the "Lynch me" that no one really noticed the "Valid point" part. Because we caught him.
ALSO, notice how he's so intent on No Lynching because odds say we'll hit Town if we lynch. Yet he's willing to be lynched? HMMMMMMM...

Dropping off the context that came afterward isn't helping your argument. I withdrew my vote because when it was pointed out that the initial vote against me was in jest, and that was a valid point. If you had read what I had said afterwards, I don't want to be lynched. This was merely a semi-defeatism.

"If I were Mafia" is basically a way of saying "I'm Mafia so I acted like Town and when people called me out on it I would go WELL Y'SEE IF I WERE MAFIA I WOULDN'T DO THAT so therefore I can't lose!"

Well I promise you I'm not scum, and that's a word I don't see very often online. It was a hypothetical situation that you are again, misreading.

>Final gambit on D1 on Page 3 at L-2
I think he said at one point something along the lines of "Well generally you claim at L-1" BUT YOU WEREN'T AT L-1.
More "lynch me" AtE going on there.

Several things here. With the full game still around, L2 is pretty close and would likely get me voted off by sheer bandwagon. My claim actually saved me by removing several votes against me. Roleclaiming was what I considered the safest possible route to take. Also, if you're familiar with Aristotle's theory of persuasion, appeal to emotion is a powerful part of persuasion and I'm not entirely sure why such an appeal is so bad, when really the logic that has been presented is inherently flawed.

Blatant lie #1

The problem is, ANY scum who is accused can claim vigilante since we have no way of validating vigilantes in the near future.

Blatant lie #2 (Also a misrep of the intentions of this wagon)

SK's and mafia goons have exactly the same powers that vigilantes have. We cannot not lynch someone based solely on their vigilante claim.

Blatant lie #3

but he has tried to defend himself to the very end.

Could you explain how any of these are lies? The first one is a very good point to make, and the second one is as well. The third one isn't entirely true, I did display defeatism, but that's not necessarily a lie.

Kagetora's views seem so alien to me. Promoting No Lynch, claimed vigilante but advocating not killing someone because that target may be town. His general play so far seems to be "play safe". I do not like.

Fair enough. If that's really why people want to lynch me, there's nothing I can really do to defend myself against that.

I also dislike the way Kage is so keen on NL'ing because we might hit Town, but as he's a Vig, and he seems to think Mafia is nothing but lucky guessing, he has a low chance of hitting Mafia. WHAT THE FU-

See above points. I don't think it's entirely random but when I was initially targeted I don't understand the "logic" (also see above about use of quotation marks) behind and so it seems random to me.

KAGE DO you realise (if your vig) that vigs are COMPULSIVE BRO.

Yes. Yes I do. I asked the mod to ensure that the compulsive was meant to be there. (Paraphrasing is allowed)

My side = Town.
The end of the story.

Parknourie, so Chocolate Cake is Scum because you're Town? Oh, Chocolate Cake is ConfScum!

To me this seems awfully scummy. You refuse to accept my claim to town when my survival depends on it, but you simply accept Park's when it's unlikely they'll receive enough votes to warrant a claim this early? I'm considering changing my vote at this point almost solely due to that.

[Kagetora]

Sigh this is gonna be a long post. Curse you sleeping time

I hate when people don't understand the difference between not knowing who to lynch and wanting to no lynch. There's NO NEED OR RUSH to place your vote. No lynching D1 is ridiculously idiotic. You don't need to have your vote on it just because you don't have anyone to vote for.

I've always played, and still believe, that while you still have the opportunity to, lynching when you have no real reason to do so tends to be more harmful to the town than helpful. That's why I promote no lynch on the first day.

Putting things in "quotes" like that acts like you are quoting what was said by people, DESPITE THE FACT NO ONE SAID YOU WERE PROVED. You're making your situation worse than it is.

If I wanted to truly quote something, as I am doing, I would put it in the quotes that the forum provides for us. "Writing something like this" is more or less akin to using your fingers in the air, not a word for word quote. You're misreading my post.

I... I... I... So we caught him, eh? Everyone was so focused on the "Lynch me" that no one really noticed the "Valid point" part. Because we caught him.
ALSO, notice how he's so intent on No Lynching because odds say we'll hit Town if we lynch. Yet he's willing to be lynched? HMMMMMMM...

Dropping off the context that came afterward isn't helping your argument. I withdrew my vote because when it was pointed out that the initial vote against me was in jest, and that was a valid point. If you had read what I had said afterwards, I don't want to be lynched. This was merely a semi-defeatism.

"If I were Mafia" is basically a way of saying "I'm Mafia so I acted like Town and when people called me out on it I would go WELL Y'SEE IF I WERE MAFIA I WOULDN'T DO THAT so therefore I can't lose!"

Well I promise you I'm not scum, and that's a word I don't see very often online. It was a hypothetical situation that you are again, misreading.

>Final gambit on D1 on Page 3 at L-2
I think he said at one point something along the lines of "Well generally you claim at L-1" BUT YOU WEREN'T AT L-1.
More "lynch me" AtE going on there.

Several things here. With the full game still around, L2 is pretty close and would likely get me voted off by sheer bandwagon. My claim actually saved me by removing several votes against me. Roleclaiming was what I considered the safest possible route to take. Also, if you're familiar with Aristotle's theory of persuasion, appeal to emotion is a powerful part of persuasion and I'm not entirely sure why such an appeal is so bad, when really the logic that has been presented is inherently flawed.

Blatant lie #1

The problem is, ANY scum who is accused can claim vigilante since we have no way of validating vigilantes in the near future.

Blatant lie #2 (Also a misrep of the intentions of this wagon)

SK's and mafia goons have exactly the same powers that vigilantes have. We cannot not lynch someone based solely on their vigilante claim.

Blatant lie #3

but he has tried to defend himself to the very end.

Could you explain how any of these are lies? The first one is a very good point to make, and the second one is as well. The third one isn't entirely true, I did display defeatism, but that's not necessarily a lie.

Kagetora's views seem so alien to me. Promoting No Lynch, claimed vigilante but advocating not killing someone because that target may be town. His general play so far seems to be "play safe". I do not like.

Fair enough. If that's really why people want to lynch me, there's nothing I can really do to defend myself against that.

I also dislike the way Kage is so keen on NL'ing because we might hit Town, but as he's a Vig, and he seems to think Mafia is nothing but lucky guessing, he has a low chance of hitting Mafia. WHAT THE FU-

See above points. I don't think it's entirely random but when I was initially targeted I don't understand the "logic" (also see above about use of quotation marks) behind and so it seems random to me.

KAGE DO you realise (if your vig) that vigs are COMPULSIVE BRO.

Yes. Yes I do. I asked the mod to ensure that the compulsive was meant to be there. (Paraphrasing is allowed)

My side = Town.
The end of the story.

Parknourie, so Chocolate Cake is Scum because you're Town? Oh, Chocolate Cake is ConfScum!

To me this seems awfully scummy. You refuse to accept my claim to town when my survival depends on it, but you simply accept Park's when it's unlikely they'll receive enough votes to warrant a claim this early? I'm considering changing my vote at this point almost solely due to that.

Edited version of my previous post, including names this time. Sorry about that.

[Kagetora]

Hold on a second. This just jumped out at me.

Persuasion has no place in town defense. It's for scum and people trying to lead a wagon to use, nobody else. I will admit, you did pick the right time to claim, however.

Maybe you should consult with someone who's not a dumbass.

Is this a change of opinion or a contradiction?

Lynching when you have no real reason is always dumb. That's obvious. But why is it impossible to have no reason on the first day? By now there's enough reason to lynch several people and it's the first day. You talk until there's reason. If we just no lynched prematurely under the mentality that the first day can't productive, how many days would go by before we felt we had reason? It doesn't magically appear on the second day. Create conversation. Argue. Agree and disagree with what people are saying, then you'll have reason. Even on the first day. But you just seem eager to waste as much of the town's time as possible.

It's still all unfounded speculation. Have you even considered that maybe these people don't have an ulterior motive and simply arguing the hole in the logic? I will almost always support a lynch on the second day, when we have BOTH actions and words that we can speculate on, rather than just one of the two.

If he's misreading it, why don't you give us the way it was supposed to be read?

I am doing the best that I can, and also on most forums, putting stuff in

this kind of quote[ /quote] versus "this kind of quote" is a very big difference which I'm sure you can attest to.

The first one is untrue because of the possibility of counter claims, which I see as a good idea in a game with this setup where town is almost guaranteed to have a doc into the endgame. The second one just isn't true at all. SKs, goons, and vigs might share killing in common, but the roles are about as different as they could possibly be.

Also implying that we wanted to lynch you BECAUSE you claimed vig was the bigger blatant lie of that quote.

And the third IS necessarily a blatant lie so I'm not even gonna touch it.

Has anyone counter-claimed my role? The second one is true. They have the same POWER but not the same objective. I'm pretty much positive this is what he means. I'm not entirely sure what you're saying in the italics part of the quote.

You're... stupid.

Can we please maintain some civility here? I don't believe I've directly insulted you at all this game, I'd ask that you please do the same for me.

[Kagetora]

Not sure what you're seeing. I called your friend a dumbass because you said you and him agreed that giving up was a good idea. I'll still stand by that opinion. I never said anything about your claim. If you want me to: It's obviously a lie but it was well-timed.

I'm seeing you calling my friend a dumbass because he and I agreed that roleclaiming was the right option to take. And I still haven't lied yet.

Does someone wanna explain this to me? It doesn't make any sense. It's like he just decided to talk about something completely beside the point.

Any discussion on the first day will be unfounded speculation, you have no hard evidence that can be used to prove or disprove a hypothesis. If you lynch me, you merely prove my point. I am a vigilante, and if/when you lynch me and prove it so, then you will have proven that all of this is unfounded speculation.

If he's talking about powers as just powers and not powers AND objectives, then he needs to get his mind back in the game because that's trivial unimportant information.

No it's not. He's saying that since I claimed vigilante, you can't know for sure that I personally killed someone, when there are plenty of other people who can mess with my claim.

Say things that make sense. Then we'll talk.

We have been talking, and your aggressive nature makes much less sense than the defensive one you put me in.

@CC: Sure thing. As for the no lynching argument and defeatism, this comes from my experiences of playing this game everyday with my friends and the conclusions we have collectively come to.

[Kagetora]

1. Go back and read the post you linked. I asked you why would you ACCEPT DEFEAT (obviously a reference to your saying "lolwutever just lynch me") if you were a vig. Then you said "lol I broke the rules and asked my friend and he told me to." Then I called him a dumbass. NOWHERE do you specify that you asked him about claiming so I'm SUPPOSED to assume that we were talking about the functional part of my post that you quoted, the accepting defeat part. I would be the stupid one to assume otherwise.

I did. While what you say is a valid reading of the post which I hadn't seriously considered, mine is as well. The way my post was meant to be read would be something along the lines of 'I don't give up. My friend and I agree that roleclaiming is the best option.' And how many times must I clarify this? I did not talk to anyone here on this site. I was consulting a friend of mine, outside the game. Nowhere do I see a rule that specifically bans this, and your pushing of the issue that isn't there is really getting on my nerves.

If I really wanted to give up and quit the game, I would have tried to get myself modkilled, which is silly to suggest that I truly want OUT of this game.

2.THIS IS MAFIA
*snip*
YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE MAIN POINT OF THIS GAME. EVERY SINGLE THING SAID IS GONNA BE ROOTED IN SPECULATION. IT'S THE

POINT

OF THE GAME!!!!!!!

You obviously don't understand what I'm saying. Yes, interpreting what other people say is good, but it simply cannot be the only thing you go off of. Yes it can be used as evidence, but without any actions, what good is it? Not much. And once again, if your incorrect speculation as to my scum nature results in my lynch, you will prove my point.

3. Yeah. You're right, actually.

Wow, we found something we agree on.

I bear no ill will towards you, but your argument simply doesn't make sense.

[Kagetora]

You obviously don't understand what I'm saying. Yes, interpreting what other people say is good, but it simply cannot be the only thing you go off of. Yes it can be used as evidence, but without any actions, what good is it? Not much. And once again, if your incorrect speculation as to my scum nature results in my lynch, you will prove my point.

Oh I see. You're one of those noobs that thinks that the game can't be played without examining kills, claims, PR usage, etc. That's not true at all. For instance. Go read any game. It's SUPER RARE for scum to be caught because of who they killed. Also, how do you explain the countless lynches of scum before any of this information made itself available. The town is never well-informed and that doesn't get that much better until endgame in general. You're implying that all early lynches of scum are nothing more than dumb luck just because helpful solid information wasn't available. Blatant lie.

I guess we're just gonna have to agree to disagree here. The first day, it is very rare for an accurate lynch to happen in my experience. I'll leave it at that.

@MrBump: How have you missed the many clarifications I've posted? To finally settle the matter I sent a PM to the mod to ensure that I am indeed allowed to discuss with people not related to this forum. If this isn't true, then I won't do it again and I'll admit I misread the rules. Until then, drop the subject, please. It's getting us nowhere and repeating myself is getting tiresome.

[Kagetora]

Sorry if I miss anything in this post.

(Off topic rant: Kage. Come on. Grow up. Don't get offended at every instance of trash talk. Are you new to mafia AND to the internet? Please, after this game, take our suggestion and play a newbie game or three. It will help yourself, and your future team mates.)

While this isn't entirely related I think it deserves to be responded to. I am new to neither the mafia nor the internet, and (while I obviously don't appreciate being insulted) insults tend to show to me a lack of willingness to pursue more logical routes and the overtake of emotion in a conversation. After this game is over, I probably will go into at least one newbie game as I see the atmosphere and opinions here are much different than the ones I had been expecting to find.

Kage here refuses to accept that no lynch is a bad idea and keeps throwing the whole "lynch me if you want, I still think D1NL is the best idea even though everyone else is giving me myriad reasons why it's insanely idiotic" out there.

Our numbers are going to thin sufficiently with the number of killers out already, we don't need to further push our numbers down.

[Kagetora]

Crap, didn't mean to finish posting there. My previous post is continued here.

Going off of andrew's point, it would add an interesting dynamic to the game and make it an easy town win if both vigs claimed. We have Kage as a potential one so if two vigs outed themselves, we'd have one definite scum and if only one more comes out, we can put his lynch off for a bit. The main thing the doctors need to do is make sure we don't ALL protect the claimed vigs. One doc for each vig and then other docs just protect a random person from their other town reads and I think it could be a fairly easy town win. Not saying vigs should claim right after reading this post, I'd like some input from a bunch of the other players. I'm just speculating.

Yesterday I ran a smaller version of this game with a group of live players. 3 doctors, 1 vig, 1 sk, 2 standard mafia. What we found worked best after running it 4 times was that if the 3 doctors claimed and protected each other in a triangle, if someone died, then it meant the person who was "protecting them" wasn't actually a doctor. The town used this strategy to win the last two games, after a chaotic first two. With 6 doctors, we could run two such rings, or one giant one.

Although having read the rest of the topic and complaints about similar plans, with a larger game that also includes a mafia doctor we could allow a scum to pass under the radar. So... just an idea to consider.

[Kagetora]

@Kage
How are you going to handle 10 people claiming to be doctors?

If you guys actually would seriously consider this, I'd go with 2 groups of 3. It would allow (theoretically) at least one group to remain strong. And the way we decided was first-come-first-serve. It wasn't perfect, but then few systems are.

[Kagetora]

First off, Kage, get your vote off of no-lynch. Mafia 101 can come later, but we're not no lynching today, OK?

As many times as I've gotten this, in my own eyes I cannot justify a lynch yet.

[Kagetora]

Kage, there is just... I don't even...

*breathe*

Grow a pair. Vote for someone.

Let's just say I agreed with you for a second. Who do I vote for? The people who are honestly attracting my attention both have plenty of votes on them already, and changing from an ardent nl stance to voting either of them looks awfully scummy, which I seem to already have a rep for. Plus, one of the two has been hammering me from day 1. Going for a hammer would only increase the apparent scumminess.

[Kagetora]

look kage, if your the vig, think about it,

no lynching during the day is bad,. this is why: if ur vig ur compulsive, it means u gotta shoot. since no lynch day 1 give u no info, how can you shoot ANYONE.
so your contradicatory.

also, wizrak made a reference that his prevoius mod 'modkilled'. then he only asked for a 'warning'. y even mention the modkill then

It wont look scummy for you, kage if you have some decent reasoning.

You guys really want me to vote? Fine. Don't blame me for the mislynch then.

There's nothing new for me to add at this point, all of the reasons I have have already been said.

Unvote, Vote Park

[Kagetora]

You guys really want me to vote? Fine. Don't blame me for the mislynch then.

There's nothing new for me to add at this point, all of the reasons I have have already been said.

Unvote, Vote Park

That is the wrong answer.
This is not how you do it.
No.
No.
No.
You do not leap on a wagon, in fact, you do not leap on the wagon SLIPPING saying you're certain to get a mislynch. HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THAT.
YOU EVEN SAID YOU THINK HE IS SCUMMY DIRECTLY AFTER, BUT SUPPLIED NO NEW REASONING.
AND YET SAID HE WAS TOWN.
SO MUCH SCUM
SO
LITTLE
TIME

Inb4defencesaying"wellyouwantedmetovotesillygooses"

Have you been paying attention at all to what I've been saying before I finally voted?
1. I didn't want to switch my vote (besides the fact that no lynch makes more sense to me) for THIS EXACT REASON. Based on what I've read and what others have said, this vote makes the most sense, and I don't believe ANY of the votes are very good, because we have no hard evidence for any of them.
2. I advocate no lynch on the first day, because I don't agree that any of the evidence presented by anyone is strong enough to convict anyone, thus why I said "don't blame me for the mislynch." I think that lynching at

all

on the first day is bad, and while the evidence that has come up seems to condemn Park most harshly, if I could singlehandedly decide whether or not to lynch him, I would not do so.

Before you accuse me of wording anything badly here, don't crash into me here. I'm a little peeved right now/

[Kagetora]

Wow, sucks to be DLG...

Kage, who'd you "kill"?

Wasamas/DLG seems an incredibly random kill, though. Who would go for him?

You.

[Kagetora]

Wow, sucks to be DLG...

Kage, who'd you "kill"?

Wasamas/DLG seems an incredibly random kill, though. Who would go for him?

You.

Which question is this a response to? I'm assuming it's the second question. Answer the first question.

Err... If a question is specifically addressed to me wouldn't it make sense that my answer is in response to said question? Seems like trying to divert what should be pretty obvious. Cake clearly understood it.

Replacement or modkill now please.

Replacement is much preferred. Wizrak's lack of anything remotely constructive.

Oh, that kill was directed at me?

HA!

But dear Kage, why kill me? Because I'm the one pushing your lynch so much, scum? Thinking he's the SK more and more now. Whoever was on me, thank you! xD
The question of "Why isn't Wizrak dead" still remains unanswered. Kage, what was so scummy about me you actually had to kill me over killing, say, your scumbuddies aaah and Wizrak?
But actually tbh I'm thinking Kage for SK because he's playing ridiculously scummy, but independently. No one besides Cake has come rushing to his aid (I think)

Because you're one of the ones pushing my lynch that started with a poor reason and never had a good one? Also with only 2 "scumbuddies" and me being the SK, how does this work? I can't have scumbuddies as the SK, and I still maintain I'm the vig.

And I'm frankly surprised I'm still alive.

@Mod: I don't know if that's entirely fair, having a second chance after watching what happened during a night and having a role.

[Kagetora]

Sigh, sorry long post. My stuff in bold or out of quotes obviously. Also please don't slam me for what might look like a conspiracy theory, because honestly if no one is claiming to have protected me, it makes sense.

"Actually"

Saying that actually tbh, I think you're the SK. The other two I could see as buddies for the sole reason aaah calls me out on "Bitch, Please" but not Wizrak's constant swearing.

So this has nothing to do with me?

Surprised you're still alive 'cuz you got shot and you're the SK yo

Wrong.

Why not shoot Pac, then? Or, seeing how I "blatantly wagonned", why not shoot someone who jumped on the wagon then jumped off, unlike me who stayed until basically the very, very end?

Frankly because of everyone who really hammered into me, I felt you were the most scummy and also because you annoy me the most.

No one's come out with a MrBump protect yet (vatesi's the only one who hasn't had the chance). I assume from this that

a) Kage is lying.

Nope.

or
b) MrBump is scum and Mafia doc doesn't want to claim the save
or
c) MrBump is SK

More likely of the two options that I know can be spoken for.

One of them needs to be the lynch today if this is true, so pipe up if the assumption is wrong.

Look guys, you're gonna call me crazy I know, but this is honestly what I think probably happened, given what I know.
I shot at MrBump and he didn't die because he's bulletproof, since no one has claimed to have protected him.
At the same time, Andrew claimed to have shot at me, and I didn't die. I'm not the SK, so someone protected me. If no one claims they protected me then it probably means the MafiaDoc protected me.
Now you're probably thinking "this guy is retarded" by now, but. Look at it from their view.
I openly claimed vig to the world, and they know I'm not actually mafia. It's likely the other vig is gonna kill me at night, and they're not going to because people think I'm one of them. Now, to reinforce that idea, they save me. I look more scum, and (assuming my lynch) another town PR is gone.
Everyone accusing me of being maf using this as evidence is merely feeding this theory, and if you lynch me, you'll prove I'm not just a crazy conspiracy theorist.

i dont think i found this but IF kagetora was vigilante?SK? he shouldve shot someone?

I did. MrBump.

Ok, sense nobody came out saying that they protected kage, it is reasonable that kage is the Sk / mafia protected by doctor

i am a vig and i shot kage last night.

Hm. If you're telling the truth, that means DLG

wasn't

a vig kill. That means either a) someone wanted to keep DLG from posting or b) the SK was going for mafia. I find b more likely.

Hey Kage, is this the "information" you're talking about? Now we've got some to analyze.

Somewhat. I was talking more about the convoluted situation regarding MrBump and I and other situations where claims can be made, and while I agree that is useful, I'm a little more interested in ensuring the town doesn't make a big mistake right now by killing me.

Well, I think all of the players are townie EXCEPT - Kage, MrBump
(I know I am missing one, but I dont really get who during day 1)
So I just did emininiminimo to choose who to heal

Missing two. 3 maf plus 1 sk makes 4 non-townies. Possible scumslip?

Kage: Please list all the players in these three groups; Town, Null, Scum.

Sorry I haven't been paying quite as close of attention to the other people and the only person I have a strong feeling about one way or the other is MrBump being scum.

So... lynch Kage? If he's scum, GG. If he's vig, MrBump and Andrew get lynched.

I'm not entirely sure why you'd lynch Andrew based on this, because he (as I'm sure others do) felt that I was scum. So if you lynch me, at which point I flip vig, you still have nothing on Andrew.

I'm inclined to agree with pacman. I think mafia probably tried to kill Kage and failed, so they realize that the only way for them to get rid of him is to get him lynched. However, this could point to SKage. (I'm kind or ruling out mafiaKage at this point; if he's mafia, he's getting bussed, hard)

Actually, now that I think on it, did anyone protect Kage last night? I didn't, and I'm one of very few people who thought he's town. pac, did you?

If you read above you'll get my take on why no one is claiming to have saved me.

CC; Do you buy the two vig claims?

I believe Kage (or, I believ

ed

), and that's because I thought he acted townish.
I believe andrew's because he kind of came out of nowhere with it (not something SK or mafia would do).
I'm believe andrew's claim more for precisely the reason Rain gave; andrew gave us his role voluntarily while Kage did it near or at L1 (I don't remember).

I'm pretty sure it was L2, but the exact number escapes me.

i dont know whether i should say this or not, but i get the feeling empking is softclaiming vig.

Yeah, you should have gone with not.

agreed, though if he is he should come out and say it.

[Kagetora]

i dont know whether i should say this or not, but i get the feeling empking is softclaiming vig.

Thank you for that.

Yes, I'm the second vig. Kage do you want to claim SK or be lynched?

(Also can I propose a plan. The Docs exclusively protect me or Andrew with each doc flipping a coin (heads for me, tails for Andrew) for who to protect. In all honesty there's nobody else scum would like to hit.)

Err, the options you give me are a no-win scenario.

Ok guys let's think this through for a second.
The three claimed vigs are me, Andrew, and Empking. We know only two of them can be real. Now, I claim to have shot Bump. Andrew claims to have shot me. Before we go ANY further with the "omg this guy must be lying", I want to know who Empking shot at. I want to know who saved MrBump.

Also, for god's sakes, whoever protected me, claim now. If honest to god no one did, then there are two options here, and I think I know which one you guys think is more likely.
1. Andrew's lying about shooting at me.
2. I'm the SK.

Really, that theory of yours SCREAMS SK.

And when I flip vig, you're screwed unless someone claims your save buddy. So I'm somewhat surprised you're still pushing my lynch so hard, because the aftermath is pretty predictable. And yes, I very much shot at you and I'm disappointed I failed.

i was gonna say if there wasnt a 3rd vig claim, then wasa could have protected kage(and kage be vig)

but i had a feeling empking was s claiming with his random words and he DID claim so yea kage is prob the Sk/ mafia protected by the doc.

Wrong.

also, kage that thing were u said mafia doc protected you was ridiculous, so hypothetically, they would let you live and not protect their own>? = =

Everybody thinks I'm scum, so wouldn't my survival seem like proof that I am scum?

also, should we leave the Sk alive?

Why would you do that?

And yes I guess you guys could describe me as flailing, but at this point it's pretty much me doing what I can to prevent you guys from making a big mistake.

I'm convinced of my theory, but I don't think it matters to the rest of you. Have fun picking between Empking and Andrew for remaining vig.

Vote Kagetora

[Kagetora]

Vote, so who to lynch next becomes obvious. (MrBump)

[Kagetora]

Kage isn't gonna claim SK even though claiming SK would probably get him unlynched. Pretty sure he's scum. But I'm gonna lol if he flips vig cuz then Empking will be lynched within 10 posts tomorrow.

Claiming SK goes against my dislike of lying. At this point idrc if I'm lynched anymore.

[Kagetora]

If I'm not dead or have very few votes on me by the next time I check this, I'll be very disappointed in those who haven't voted.

[Kagetora]

Alright bah post here
You see now that I hadn't lied to you, and maybe, just maybe, my theory isn't just the ravings of a lunatic. Good luck.
PS: I still believe in NL D1

[Kagetora]

To be entirely honest I'm somewhat disappointed EPM, Bump, and andrew didn't die pretty much right away.
-EPM said "I called him scum d1" right before I flipped vig. It wasn't inherently scummy but it seemed really suspicious.
-I shot Bump (which I would hope would seem obvious after my flip of vig) and no one claimed to have saved him. Screams SK/maf to me.
-andrew... well I'm surprised Empking didn't shoot andrew right after my flip, but he got lynched so I guess I can't complain on this one.

[Kagetora]

As a whole though, good job. Kudos to GreyICE for pulling us out of almost certain loss.