Road to Wrestlemania: Game over - WWF wins - BANG BANG!

[bristep123]

well I'm nothing if not a crowd pleaser.

Spinebuster : (AA style, none of this Batista nonsense) Vezo

Gutwrench Powerbomb : Chesskid

[bristep123]

I guess Lowell is next to go

full nelson Lowell
hammerlock Lowell

[bristep123]

I wanted to eliminate Furculow but by my reckoning AV has already done it. I was hoping to try and beat Kane's record for rumble eliminations. Ah well

rake the eyes of jasonT1981
rake the back of jasonT1981

[bristep123]

Um, I....like your shirt?

I'll happily admit that I don't quite get the reason for having this stage of the game and am not really getting a handle on it.

[bristep123]

I've been away today, just on quickly so as not to lose my votes for today. Off to bed in a minute

Punch : primate
Kick : jediknight

[bristep123]

neckbreaker : VasudeVa
leg drop : VasudeVa

[bristep123]

I don't have a problem with this 1hp plan, I'm just keen to end this round and start the game proper.

*oklahoma roll* Baby Spice
*la magistral* Baby Spice

[bristep123]

Can we get a votecount before I put mine in and risk knocking someone out.

[bristep123]

@Thor665 : I thought the plan was to take everyone down to L-1 without eliminating them? Ah well, I don't want the belt either because it's too far big a game for me to handle something like that.

Punch bristep123
Kick bristep123

Support AV.

[bristep123]

Vote AurorusVox

because if he is scum, we'll never know about it! Sly bugger that he is.

[bristep123]

Sorry, I had another game finishing, couldn't keep up.

I've read through everything now post Rumble (I'm not going to try and look for reads in that because I didn't fully get the concept), my main suspect from these initial few days is BabySpice. I think she focused on Chesskid as an easy lynch on a VI, then eased off when nobody hopped on board with her. Tried to vote for AV instead which smacks of OMGUS and using town sway to hop without looking scummy, but doesn't unvote Chesskid so I assume her vote doesn't move.

Elsewhere, IS seems convincing, but I watched him try to lead a game to lynch a townie day one last time I played with him (he got lynched instead and flipped town) so I'm wary.

Mandible Claw : Baby Spice.

[bristep123]

@ AV RE: #783 My first vote (on you BTW, would you have picked it up if it hadn't been?) wasn't done correctly (I thought it was only the rumble that had the wrestling move requirement.) so there was no need for me to unvote. Let me switch off your iron(y) for you.

@Nero RE:#782 I mean that I thought he was onto something as regards you, but I'm wary that he was wrong in the only other game I played in him with.

Brosius voted for Snake because he didn't think that Snake's vote on Furc was valid. I'd say that his reason for voting for Snake isn't valid. Also he hasn't made any real contribution (PKB, I know I know)

Trendall's ISO reads badly, promises analysis but doesn't deliver, "I understand the votes on me, but I think that everyone voting for me at the moment is most likely town" is an incredibly odd statement to make, especially when he questions why KK is voting for him later on (the question came later, the vote was already there before the original statement)

BS's responses have reduced my read on her, Brosius and Trendell need more pressure on

unvote:Baby Sprice

Samoan Drop:Scott Brosius

[bristep123]

Actually AV, I just checked the rules and unvotes aren't required so we were both wrong with that one.

[bristep123]

@Hoppster : Both needed more votes to apply pressure IMO, Brosius had less than Trendell so that's where I voted.

[bristep123]

This is also a prod dodge, but my opinion hasn't changed since I voted for Brosius so I've nothing to add. This is my first large game so I'm mainly reading and will chip in when I have something to add or ask.

[bristep123]

Well, Brosius isn't going to be today's wagon but he definitely needs to be pressured next day. Trendell is looking scummy, and the game seems to agree so..

UNVOTE
Sliced Bread Number Two : Trendall

[bristep123]

@AV I'll give you my thoughts on Thor if you stop calling me Britstep

[bristep123]

Thor is at least participating, and he is very vocal against the trendall wagon. If they're both scum then he's playing a dangerous game.

[bristep123]

I think there's a case for both of them, however Trendall is the more popular choice.

[bristep123]

Really? I've said from days ago that I thought Trendall and Brosius needed pressure as both looked scummy. Hardly "I have scumreads on a lot of people but will ignore all of them to join the biggest wagon every day. LOLZ1111" In fact I can't see how you would derive one from the other. Explain please. In detail if you would.

[bristep123]

Vezo, DDD and Chesskid now all saying my last couple of posts were "brutal", "horrible", scummy read, etc. Come on now kids, show your working because I'm not scum so lets see what makes you think I am.

I don't have 'lots of scumreads' as Chesskid said, I don't have much at all since this is my first large game and it's hard to keep track of. I do think Brosius is worth pressuring, and I think Trendall could be lurking scum since he's new.

I like how the talk is starting to revolve about the impending deadline, and getting people to shift onto larger wagons to avoid a no-lynch but when I do so ONTO A WAGON I'VE PREVIOUSLY STATED THAT I AGREE WITH I'm suddenly opportunistic scum.

[bristep123]

It's only an awesome catch if I was scum. If you do go ahead and lynch me I will flip town. Remember that 'awesome catch' when I do.

[bristep123]

Can I ask that people like DDD who keep calling me scummy actually use the night phase to come up with something I can actually defend against? If all you do is say "bristep is scummy" all I can say is "no, I'm not". Actually show your working and I can hopefully give you some answers and stop you wasting more time on me than is needed.

[bristep123]

^^^ Well that just gives me another reason to dislike you.

[bristep123]

And him being a film buff as well. Shocking behaviour.

[bristep123]

I don't have any solid reads, finding it hard to follow a game of this size (first big game played). Interesting that Bischoff flipped as a general manager rather than a jobber, was he a power role?

Snake, you are fluff posting about who the scum characters might be, and telling us who we should be hearing from. You also didn't commit to a wagon last phase, unvoting off of Brosius but never voting later on, even with the phase closing in. I haven't seen much in the way of actual opinion from you, other than speculation around the game mechanics. Who do you have reads on? Is Internet Stranger still as scummy in light of the Vezo/DDD incident? Do you have any more readings from him other than the hammer of Trendall/blame on Chesskid?

I don't buy that Vezo searched for wrestlers from Minneapolis, and was only able to find Shaun Davairi. I think Vezo may well have made an error (from the looks of things, he got the town of birth but not a name, and wrongly assumed it to be Davairi). People are pushing this as a bigger issue than I see it as, which is worrying.

To those voting for DDD right now, do you believe fully that this is a case of DDD being scum and Vezo town? Do you see any credence in Vezo making an incorrect assumption and DDD simply reacting to it, both as town?

Edit post preview - KK said it a lot better than I did.

[bristep123]

@IS How is DDD pretty much outed? All that's known is his character's town of birth. Where do you derive that he needs to make a full claim from there?

[bristep123]

Nero - Vezo is almost certainly confirmed as a flavour cop type role, this is confirmed scum to you?

[bristep123]

@Nero - "this whole game" makes it sound like we're in late game and I've contributed nothing. I'm still a newb, so I don't see these mystical magical scum tells as well as some people here seem to. I thought Trendall looked suspicious last phase, as I did Brosius. I was wrong about Trendall so it makes me take a step back and reassess my reads.

As far as today goes, Snake is suspect, as are you if I'm honest but I'm aware of what happened in the high seas game so at the moment am putting it down to your attitude rather than actually being scum.

[bristep123]

@Furc are you still trying to guess what DDD's character is? Hasn't the game kind of moved past that? What about Rick Rude? He's from Minneapolis as well. And Animal wasn't born in Minneapolis, he was born in Philly. It almost reads as a fluff post really.

Edit for preview : @IS Lance Storm was in WWE for a few years.

[bristep123]

@Furc stop double posting you know it's against the rules. As for Snake being our "WWF dictionary" I'm sure there are plenty of us who could fill the same role, and there's also wikipedia if not.

[bristep123]

@Snake Mr Perfect was also born in Robbinsdale, and billed as such so why include Perfect and not Rude. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curt_Hennig

There's something not right about you...

Rude Awakening SnakePlisskin

[bristep123]

@Snake Yes chief, just because you say "Oh and don't bother saying there are other reasons" doesn't mean there aren't.

"Snake, you are fluff posting about who the scum characters might be, and telling us who we should be hearing from. You also didn't commit to a wagon last phase, unvoting off of Brosius but never voting later on, even with the phase closing in. I haven't seen much in the way of actual opinion from you, other than speculation around the game mechanics" from post #1204 by me.

"Snake is suspect" from post #1237. Also by me.

"Oh and Rude was billed from, Robinnsdale, Minnesota.which ever so slightly different, but different none the less and why I didn't include him." from post #1272. By you.

I can see why you would think that I only think you're scum because of that last post. No, no, really I can.

I think you're fluff posting, and dancing around roles and characters to give the illusion of scum hunting. But please feel free to keep aiming that OMGUS finger at me.

[bristep123]

I've literally played 7 games Snake, this being the 8th. You should know that I've only been playing since December since you were the mod in my first game over on UKFF. Since then I've played 2 more games on that site, and 4 here (2 replacing in mid game). Hmm, that would make your statement about me not being a newbie.... a lie? Or at best a deliberate misdirection.

Also, twisting statements to make them seem more absurd is another scummy act. I didn't say you shouldn't call for people to talk, but when it's part of fluff at the expense of scumhunting then it's suspect.

[bristep123]

"SnakePlissken, D'Von Dudley, Dudley Boyz Compulsive Table Serial Killer"

"Thor 665, Eric Bischoff, WWF General Manager, put through a table in the first Backstage phase!"

Thor definitely was the vig kill last night then which seems to indicate that Kise was targetted by the scum.

[bristep123]

I did, but couldn't post a correction until someone else posted as per the rules.

[bristep123]

@VP - Happy Birthday

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p2868541
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p2868567
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p2868597

Kise claims he was assaulted overnight but survived, and since we know now (or can be pretty sure) that Thor was killed by Serial Killer Snake we can follow that logic and assume that Kise was the scum target last night and something stopped it.

[bristep123]

Well Kise is either telling the truth and was attacked or is scum and is lying. I just don't know what the scum gain by making a fake NK attempt claim so early on? Would trying to out a possible protective role work in that way work? I mean if Kise is scum and lying then any docs/protectors we have would know they didn't protect him so wouldnt' make themselves known.

[bristep123]

this is a prod avoid, had a busy weekend and am catching up from Saturday night on, but need to leave for work in about 15 minutes.

[bristep123]

dropkick Erratus Apathos

I'm going to go with chesskid's gut, if nothing else if he's wrong it gives us a reference point any time he tries to insist his reads are good.

Brosius asking for a DDD fullclaim is scummy, Vezo's pursuit of a DDD nameclaim is aggressive so seems more towny at this point.

Agree with the theory that there could be 2 serial killers (alt-night killers perhaps)?

Empking looks really lurky right now, and he jumped on the weak DDD wagon at the weekend when the hometown thing kicked off. Focused on IS, who I don't have a scumread on (more that he's acting in that polarising almost scummy way that I've seen from him before).

[bristep123]

Then join it! Oh wait, you were being sarcastic. I'll let you know if I remember to laugh.

[bristep123]

@chess yeah, high seas we were in together I replaced nexus at the end of day one

@Erratus - In the high seas game I played with Chess's gut scumreads were pretty accurate but nobody listened to him much because of his play style. He was off on a few as well but hit more times than not. I'm going with his gut because there's a good chance he's right and you are scum. The addendum which was kind of jokey was that if he's wrong, at least any time in the future that he claims his reads are good we can refer him back to this one.

BTW nice omgus there.

@Empking - That's what you interpret from my thoughts on you? That I think you're scummy because you have a different opinion than me? I gave 3 reasons for having a scumread on you. 1) Lurking 2) jumping on a weak DDD wagon and 3) Focusing on InternetStranger who I think is town. I can since add a fourth in that you are *still* insisting that DDD is scum on the basis that he won't nameclaim.

[bristep123]

@VV Tag champs don't, so I'd assume scum don't either.

[bristep123]

@AV: Regardless of what reads you and EA and vezo might have on me, I find it interesting that you think that EA shouldn't have moved from one wagon he thought was valid but wasn't gaining traction to another wagon he thinks is valid but is. Especially when your vote is on him, as is the vote of the person who's wagon he's now joined.

As much as I wanted to follow chesskid's gut as a meta experiment seeing that you and IS are also now the only other people on the wagon and I don't trust either of you

unvote

People seem to play their games assuming everyone plays the perfect symmetrical way, certain things are automatically scummy or townie. Maybe the fact that I've got less than 10 games under my belt and this being my first large game has something to do with how I've played so far. But I guess I can't ask town not to be wary of it, and I certainly can't expect the scum not to exploit it.

I don't have a clue which way to go, don't mind admitting I'm lost. I need to read through the whole thread again post rumble and try to get some clarity.

[bristep123]

I just wanted it out there. I'm getting accused of scummy actions, therefore I must not be playing in the correct way. Learning process. Not all of us have been playing for years VPB, I think that's forgotten sometimes.

Also AV is talking to EA and discussing my percieved scumminess. He's not addressing me directly, and he's not giving specific points for me to respond to, so I need to interject myself. If there's a specific question I'll answer it, but if someone just says "he's acting scummy" then I can't really do more than say "no I'm not" and point to my newness as a possible reason why.

[bristep123]

It might have been dumb Nero, but ulimately I while I want to win these game, I want to have fun as well and some people just seem to take it way too seriously. You were in the pirate game with him, he just about accused everyone over the course of the game, then at the end claimed his reads were godlike. At least this would have given me a valid reason to ignore him in future.

Regarding IS, I can only go with my recollection of him in that same game (only game I've played with him) and he was very similar in that game. I have a feeling in life he's probably a decent guy but on here he plays a very 'dickhead' sort of style. If you suspect him, his attitude will just cement that.

I'm not voting right now, because I don't have a strong indication of either wagon right now and last time I voted on something I wasn't 100% on I got called scum for it (Trendall). I have time, I'm going to go and do a re-read over next couple of days.

[bristep123]

@Hoppster : I didn't trust him, doesn't mean I'm sure he's scum. I have one game with him in the past, he acted like this and *was* town (although got himself lynched D1) and tunnelled the whole day phase on a player who turned out to be town. So I don't trust his reads, but I also don't know what his alignment is.

@EA and AV : Clever stuff guys, just remember this cock-suredness if you get me lynched and I flip town.

BabySpice's last post is horrible, bunch of one line opinions with no basis or backup.

Primate is lurking, then comes in, answers the questions asked to him then adds in that he would vote for the person being focused on most recently to give an indication that he's paying attention and hunting scum when actually he's skimming, lurking and jumping on popular opinion.

[bristep123]

@Scott Brosius - It was a comment about his latest post, rather than a sudden "HEY GUYS LOOK AT THE LURKER".

[bristep123]

Hopp : Just struggling to follow the game, and going with chess.

[bristep123]

Bristep is kicked in the gut and then flung head over heels with a gutwrench suplex!

I'd rather keep playing and try to keep up thanks. First large game, I'm not going to learn much if I quit. I have a town wincon, and I care about it. Plain and simple really.

I'll admit I've struggled to keep up but I have a week off work so will read through the game today as I promised to do before the weekend and try to get a clue.

GMan's claim doesn't specify alignment. (i.e WWF One-Shot Vigilante) Are vigs specifically town roles? Would scum have one if there's more than one scum group since this is a large game?

[bristep123]

Sorry Lowell, thought never even crossed my mind when I posted.

I see merit in the IS wagon through the walls of text that some of the most vocal players have been throwing out, but when AV makes a congescent argument against him and follows it up with a clearly incorrect (and I know only I know that for certain) statement about me it makes it difficult for me to support anything he argues for, especially when he's focused in on me for some time.

Reading through the thread in ISO first to get a time line of each player before reading the whole thread, chesskid has a contradiction I want to highlight. ISO #130 "Gman and Vas are both town" from Tuesday 15th March, then a vote ISO #143 "Testicle Kick: GMan" on Friday 18th March, with no explanation for the reason. Now I can buy voting for a nullread to avoid a no-lynch, but voting for a town read at any point is anti-town surely?

Chesskid what happened between Tuesday and Friday to change your mind and elicit your vote?

[bristep123]

Thoughts from ISO so far :

Empking voted IS after a Kise's vote/bandwagon start (based around the 'failed assault' flavour that Kise received). Firstly, is there meta history to support a claim that the target of a failed NK would get some sort of indication that it happened? We kind of put it down as being too ballsy for scum to try so early in the game, but Empking jumping onto it based on this weak reasoning, then riding it ever since (apart from hopping onto the forming DDD wagon briefly, then back again to IS). The intial vote seems weak, and he has given no supporting arguments for his vote or additional reasoning for it since.

IS has been guilty of behaviour that he accuses other of (eg, He accused EA of suddenly reappearing to defend himself while lurking, but then does the same thing himself while V/LA.), surely as scum he'd be more careful than that?

EA is actively putting himself out there with accusations, reading his ISO he's fairly consistant with his reads, and any voteswitching seems to be between his 3 reads. (myself included in that obv).

Furc is constantly breaking the quote/consecutive post rules, so a lot of his stuff is missing through mod removal. ISO #55 claims not to be aware of GMan at all (scumskim?) Still don't think I'm happy with the comment about keeping Snake around even though he thought he was scum (ISO #51)

[bristep123]

@IS : He does round on you once you ISO'd him, but he had already voted for you before you ISO'd him so it makes things less clear than you say. He rounded on me later on as well after I voted for him but some people are just hyper-defensive in nature, it doesn't instantly mean scum. I mean look at his ISO #21, it's very anti-scum to be that arsey about an accusation. He does is again in #26, and is starting to look too uncalculated to be scum.

@AV - I know you're wrong about me, and I think you're wrong about EA. I watched you play a blinder of a game with Umbrage in the mutiny game so I know you're a good player, and capable of pulling off great scum tactics. The fact is that I would usually put you down as town, because tunnelling on me for most of the game would be suicide if I flip town. I think in this case though you know or think you have the skill to pull it off and avoid getting lynched as a result.

Sky-High Spinebuster : AurorusVox

[bristep123]

I'm voting you because I think you're scum.

[bristep123]

You've been calling me scum, and have been since early on the RAW phase. I get that, and that wouldn't instantly be a scumtell but couple with the accusation of EA, trying to bait him into wagoning me by calling him my buddy, etc makes me think you're scum and trying to set up tomorrow's lynch at the same time as today's.

[bristep123]

you paint both as scum buddies, one dies, you start playing the "well I was wrong, but that doesn't change my read on you" tact. It most certainly wasn't a slip.

Add in also now that you say you like an IS wagon in #1666, then 4 hours later in #1678 are trying to bargain with IS to get a lynch on EA or me? Surely if IS has a scum read then that would make EA seem more town as a result? You're full of inaccuracies, but articulation counts for a lot in this game so it makes you a lot more believeable.

[bristep123]

"Nope. I said back then that I liked it MORE THAN a Gman wagon, but that neither were superior to a Bristep wagon. I also called him a town read that recently went null, not a scum read."

"Of the two, I preferred the GMAN wagon one because for a long time I thought IS was town and Gman was more null due to lurky lurky behaviour. But IS' posting defences against EA as soon as EA calls him on it, despite apparently being V/LA, is sooo hypocritical, considering IS called EA out on doing something similar (I'd argue IS' is even worse because of being V/LA). With Gman claiming something that can be confirmed on top of IS' hypocrisy, I now prefer the IS wagon."

Please demonstrate where you said IS had gone null rather scum? I see where you say that you thought IS was town, but there's no mention of null/scum. Given your use of statements like "I'd argue IS' is even worse because of being V/LA" it certainly gives the impression that you think it's scummy rather than null. It's when you post 4 hours later you're calling him null and trying to make a deal with him.

[bristep123]

"your comment about me setting up lynches is an attempt to justify a vote on me for something I haven't even done" - No it isn't. See how easy it is to argue against someone presenting opinion as fact? All town have are suspicion and opinion, scum are the only ones who can deal in fact.

If town then this is your mindset as far as it comes across to me.

EA is scum and so is bristep, but wait a minute they're both voting for each other...they must be distancing because there's no way I, AV, could possibly be wrong!

Again AV, from my point of view you

are

either wrong or your scum. And I think you're scum. If people believe you over me and I get lynched then that's unfortunate but if it leads to you being the next lynch so be it.

[bristep123]

Really? Changing his vote from someone he thinks is scum at L-11 to put someone he thinks is scum at L-6 is scummy? EA has documented suspicion on IS and had it not been for me voting him then EA probably wouldn't have switched from him. I don't see that as scummy, but I can see how someone could push a fake suspicion based on it.

[bristep123]

CK again what changed between Monday and Friday last week to turn G-Man from town to vote, and then from Friday to now to turn him from vote to unvote? It's a bit of a flip-flop man

[bristep123]

To AV, EA, Vezok et al : Promise me something people. Lynch me if you choose to, but lynch AV tomorrow because he's just so scummy right now. If it needs my town flip as added context to make you see it then so be it, but don't let him keep leading you astray for the rest of the game. I've tried to actively scumhunt, I've tried to speak my case but it hasn't helped. Obviously not everyone on or willing to wagon me is scum so I must have been in the wrong, but AV has definitely made the most of it and I hope everyone sees it.

I have no power, I am as Jobber as they come so there's no danger of you losing a key town role. I was tag team champ during the Rumble/RAW but it was moved on at the end of the night phase. I didn't get much use out of it, my partner was Bella so by the time Empking came in to replace there was no time to have any real discussion and he was new/fresh so couldn't give me any assistance/insight.

damned word count.

[bristep123]

^ I hope that statement comes back to haunt you when I flip town.

Anyway, Empking is also scummy for the reasons I mentioned yesterday so I'd support a wagon on him should nobody believe me on AV, which seems to be the case.

I am not convinced on IS or GMan's cases right now, GMan's claim needs to be tested/validated/rubbished before people should really consider lynching him.

[bristep123]

@VP You'd be better asking AV, he's been driving at me since early day 1, EA only joined in when I voted for him.

@KK I saw IS get wagoned to a day 1 lynch in the only other game I've played with him in simply because of his play style. This is hurting my reading of his play, which I daresay if he's scum is intentional. If the only choice 20 minutes before deadline between IS and a no-lynch then I'd vote for him. Otherwise I think AV and Emp are better wagons with a higher chance of flipping scum.

[bristep123]

Empking's #1749 is horrendous. Having jumped on IS's wagon, hopped to DDD's then back onto IS again, now jumps from the crumbling IS wagon onto the insurgent JK wagon. AV is still my 1st choice but Empking needs to go too and there is more support on that wagon.

Punt kick : Empking.

EBWOP : VPB - The IS wagon has 2 votes, whereas the Empking has 3 (now 4) any reason why he wasn't in the top 3 wagons?

[bristep123]

@Mod I voted for Empking yesterday, you haven't moved it over.

To make sure:

Punt Kick : Empking

And at the risk of kicking my own ass given KK spoke up for me. I only had the option of moving my own tag belt, not both of them. I missed the PM however and missed my chance so the belt was randomly moved on from me onto KK. In the interests of honesty, that needed to be said.

[bristep123]

Sotty do you see no validity in the Empking wagon? You say you would consider me over Jedi but Emp is the next most voted wagon asides myself so I worry why you skipped over that one straight to me.

[bristep123]

@Sotty - "

Gut reaction to the emp wagon is that it is easy. He hasn't done much of anything but then, that's how he plays. What's the case on him?

"

Here & Here

These are my thoughts on Empking. I've already said I would rather see an Empking lynch over a Jedi or GMan lynch today. I'm the only other current viable wagon based on votes but obviously I'm not going to support that.

[bristep123]

Emp is right, there's nothing to say that DDD and Emp can't be scum together. IS is town in my mind since Emp camped on him for most of the day.

Brosius is lurking scum, his ISO is threadbare but I don't like the Gman wagon and he kept pushing it even after it died away yesterday following the claim. 16 posts in 2 day phases (post rumble), called for a full claim from DDD which wasn't warranted at all.

Big Boot Drop Scott Brosius

[bristep123]

Sotty - "As for KK's claims we're linked to emp it's all subjective. Why he passed us his belt we don't know, it's WIFOM and nothing we can defend against. I don't see why emp explicitly stating that he passed us the belt makes us more likely scum with him. If anything I think the opposite is true and that he went out of his way to say it to make a link with us. I'd like more explanation of that reasoning."

Actually I think he said it at the time because KK had assumed that I passed the belts to him and yourself. Emp came in and said that he chose you. Thing is, I know that Emp had very little time to decide who to switch the belt to, less than 24 hours in fact. Either he chose you at random, or the scum in his team told him who to pass it to via QT. The latter is definitely more likely now that we know he was scum, I doubt the scum would want the belt to move outwith their team if they could at all help it.

[bristep123]

I didn't pass the belt at random, I didn't pass it at all. I missed the PM so it was moved on at random for me. I had no involvement in the process.

Empking might not have thought anything of saying that he passed the belt to you, after all KK had already revealed the you and he had been given the belts, so it was probably more likely that he saw a way to discredit what KK had said about me moving the belts to the two of you being a town thing (I think that's what he was driving at anyway) and keep the wagon on me driving. After all at that point the wagons were Jedi or myself, he was following behind and wasn't a strong contender.

[bristep123]

I am really sorry, life has been nightmare busy for the past week. If I still have to be replaced then fair enough.

[bristep123]

Happy to oblige.

I did receive confirmation on who the title was passed to, first via PM then we were both notified in the QT as to where both titles had been passed to.

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Thanks Locke.

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Looking at the 2 factions, DX would seem to indicate 2 teams of 4 so we're likely looking at

DX : Road Dogg, Mr Ass, HHH
MDC : Dibiase, one of Bundy/Tatanka/BamBam. Bundy would be my guess based on the bearhug kill.
Dudley : Spike or Bubba (likely bubba)

Primate looks really scummy in light of GMan's scum flip.

From his ISO..

#33 - "Yeah so GMan isn't scum"

#37 - "Who the hell is stupid enough to false claim vig early? It gets him nightkilled or if he's unk, the vig knows he's scum and at some point he's going to get lynched for lying there.

I find it infinitely more plausible that he was just roleblocked. It's not like scum blocking a vig is a dumb move for them or anything. Aside from that, in a 27 player game, a day vig, and two limited vigs is entirely plausible, especially in a game where the entire theme is based on taking out other players!"

Someone post please..

[bristep123]

Thanking you.

More from Primate's ISO

#39 - "Maybe I'm being charitable to GMan, but if I was scum thinking about claiming vig this early in the game, these are instant thoughts upon my thought of claiming vig. Vig is such an obviously shit scum claim no scum would ever do it unless they honestly thought there were no other vigs in the game, and I don't think it's a remotely plausible assumption this early."

#40 - "It's entirely possible there is no other vig. But I think it's bullshit to assume that GMan would think that at a time when we have 20+ people unclaimed and him not being shot at night fundamentally rests on that."

#41 - "I'm not saying guys claim is utterly rocksolid, and I think it helps I read him town."

#42 makes me think he and Sotty are on opposite teams if Sotty is scum, which unfortunately doesn't fit in as Emp and GMan both flipped MDC. Makes me think Sotty was genuinely embarressed that they didn't pass the titles on in time and it ended up with CK.

VOTE Primate

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@AV Unless I'm getting it wrong the case on Sotty is that Emp passed the title to them then they lied about passing it to Vezok, instead of admitting that they forgot to pass it on and it randomised to CK. (i.e Emp and Sotty are on the same scum team) Primate expressed pleasure that Sotty had been caught out instead of ignoring it (since it was post lynch there wasn't a need to say anything) which would mean that either they a) aren't scum together or b) it was distancing.

Emp and GMan were scum together, Sotty has a case on him to be Emp's buddy and I see a case in Primate being GMan's buddy. Maybe it was distancing, but my suspicion is piqued more by Primates soft supporting of GMan than by Sotty's claim of a lie to save face so would rather see Primate go first, as I think if 1 of the 2 isn't scum then it's sotty.

@DDD Billy Gunn only used the Shake Rattle & Roll when he was Rock-a-Billy, Honky Tonk Man's protege. It wasn't a finisher of his as an outlaw or as part of DX. But yes, definitely a DX kill.

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Ok, but looking at Sotty's ISO he was pushing for GMan to be lynched for a long time, so if Sotty and Emp are scum together then he basically tried to bus his buddy for the longest time, even in the face of competing wagons. There may be a case about Sotty, but then there's also reasons to doubt that case too. I'm not 100% convinced, and I think Primate is a better option.

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@Kise : I had real life shenanigans last day phase which almost got me replaced out, things are settled again now so I can participate much more. As far as the order in which I posted? I think that's reaching a bit, the coversation at the time was centered around the scum teams, so I added my opinions about that then gave my own suspicions afterwards.

It's the DX team that makes me think that there's 4 per team, since they were a 4 man unit (unless mod is mixing timelines and adding Shawn or Rick Rude in as well, or maybe even Chyna). Until we see a flip for either team which reveals a character outwith the initial expected teams I don't know that we should assume otherwise.

The bearhug thing seems to be tying up people's minds, I'm seeing posts soley devoted to who it could mean without any attempt at looking for scum. It's a flavour move, it's not something that is going to hugely benefit us spending days trying to work out who it is.

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@Kise : Just Primate's reaction to the sotty slip/catch seemed to be too gloaty to be buddies. I guess if he thought that Sotty was as good as done then it could be distancing because as you say, they've both got links to dead scum on the same team.

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@AV I'm not against a lynch on sotty, I was just more sure that Primate was scum and saw his behaviour towards Sotty as an indication that Sotty perhaps wasn't scum. As the day's gone on I'm getting more convinced that it was distancing on Primate's part. The key point I suppose is that they lied about their belt pass, and then may have lied again about the reason for lying about it. Either way, town never have a reason to lie.

Unvote
Vote Sotty

That's L-2.

Meanwhile,

Chesskids' behaviour has been worryingly odd, but what is most concerning is that he's definitely not in full CKVI mode which is an immediate alarm bell.

Oh, and Brosius is STILL LURKING. Can we get an investigate role on him tonight?

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I keep trying to tell people.

http://www.oocities.org/wrestlingscout/ ... Bundy.html

BUNDY WAS IN THE MDC, BUNDY USED THE BEARHUG.

Not "was aligned with Dibiase, but before MDC", not "sold a belt to Dibiase", not "Once brushed shoulders with Dibiase in World Class". A part of the Million Dollar Corporation. An actual part. Feuded with the Undertaker as part of the MDC. Part of the Undertaker's 19-0 Wrestlemania Streak (Number 4 if you're interested, Wrestlemania XI).

Not saying Chesskid can't be scum, just saying that Andre is not the Bearhugger you are looking for.

[bristep123]

Ok AV, I'm being a bit over dramatic but I said the bearhug was likely to be Bundy, then I said that people were getting too hung up on the flavour (and really stretching, Hercules was even mentioned at one point), and it was in danger of becoming one of those conversations that just eats up the day and distracts from actual scumhunting.

What we should really do is take a look at who pushed the idea about Andre being the hugger, despite there already being a stated member of the MDC who was a hugger and a far more likely option in Bundy.

Oh wait. That was you. Fancy that.

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The game is a bit of a mish-mash of time periods (MDC, DX, Hardys, Andre) but having the scum be actual wrestling stables and then include people in them who weren't part of the stable verges on bastard modding. It'd be akin to having D-Von Dudley be a co-vigilante with Thurman "Sparky" Plugg. I may have only said "I guess Bundy because of the bearhug" but I still said Bundy was the likely killer, and you chose to leave that fact to pursue a link between MDC and a wrestler dead a year before it's creation. you responded to something else on that post so I know you read it.

And with that I suddenly realise it's been 18 years since Andre died. Fuck me that makes me feel old.

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Lets hear what AV has to say before Sotty gets hammered. A lynch now gives him time to discuss with his buddies and come up with a cover story

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I did vote for Sotty earlier but forgot once again to use a wrestling move rather than a vote.

Finger-Poke of doom sottyrulez

I know he's overly interested in doing so, but I think he's town so let IS have his hammer.