Mini 1130 - A Fishbowl Invasion by Ninja Monkeys! - Over

[Cecily]

/confirm

[Cecily]

Thanks RBT, thanks.

I was out for the weekend, so I'm pretty lost now as to what the real arguments are versus the RVS ones, but I'm liking the case against crazy - it does seem like he jumped into it a little too soon to be trustworthy.

And just so I get my RVS spin on it... pianists are notoriously obnoxious.

vote: crazypianist

[Cecily]

Crazy and Parama, I really didn't look over the case against CP too carefully, because he was who my RVS vote was going towards anyways. I always hate this stage because I fall behind so quickly because I don't check all the time. All of this wagoning and everything has my brain going in circles. I'm also swamped with work and tests in these next few days so I won't be able to contribute very effectively until then.
I commented on Parama's claims against you because I didn't want to be viewed as ignorant for not reading the thread, but really I just don't like piano players.
(And just to clear this up, I play also, but competitive piano blows)
I'm going to retract my vote on CP for now because that's what I had intended to do originally.

unvote

This action is not to jump off a wagon that hasn't even really started yet, but just to do what I had planned.

I promise I'll get more into it a few days from now.

[Cecily]

I'm going to retract my vote on CP for now because that's what I had intended to do originally.

I've posted three times in this game not including now. My first was a confirmation. My second was an RVS. My third was a retraction of that RVS because I really didn't have any case against him other than his name.

Once again, I'm very busy. I'll contribute more when I have the time. I hope this settles things for people.

[Cecily]

Alright, here we go. I'll be going over pretty much everyone targeted, just to catch up. And I'm writing this as I'm reading so if I switch my ideas halfway through and forget to quote something, I'm sorry.

I'll start with crazypianist because thats who you guys were calling me on before. Post 38-41, Crazy, winger, crazy, DH. Looking back, Crazy's "lol" seems perfectly harmless. It seems that DH took it to the next level by calling out a bandwagon on him. It seems like sarcasm and then a miscommunication of sarcasm that started the whole attack on crazy in the first place and now I just don't see it from that. It seems like winger joined onto the crazy train [lol] and tried to push it forward by intentionally making crazy seem suspicious by putting emotions behind his simple comment.

it seemed very much like crazypianist

did

have a problem with that vote

And then theres the whole "bluff" thing. Seems more like a lack of time to think of a clever response and instead saying something stupid, rather than being blatantly scummy.

Parama then came in and went right along with winger, consciously or not, in putting words into crazy's mouth.
Parama then starts sticking up for winger by taking his scumminess and saying "nahh, what scumminess?"

Plus, [winger] isn't flailing scum like crazy is, AND he's voting the flailing scum. If he's scum, he's helping us anyways

That seems more like and alignment than anything else thus far in the game (as of post 57)
After that comes winger. Post #68. I'm not certain at this point how much of his reasoning is suspicious versus how much is purely because he's a newbie, but since he claims to know the game, I can assume he knows at least most of what he's claiming and making himself seem like.
He seems easily threatened, and comes back not with truly good reasoning, but with sentences that make it seem like he is being attacked personally.

At what point in the game does it stop being "too early" to use the word "lie"? This is an arbitrary attack on me.

And then he switches back into the "I'm new here, help me learn" mode, so I'm confused.

I'm questioning a Parama/winger alignment right now, because of Parama's post #83. He seemed to have no problems with winger's play style before he admitted that he'd never played a game before, but once that information was known he got defensive, maybe because winger being a new player threatens Parama's chance of a good scum game? Just thinking here. And then he jumped on me for unvoting crazy. He and winger had a (small) wagon on crazy at that point and it still seemed like the rest of the players weren't terribly convinced, yet when I pulled my RVS vote he wanted to accuse me of teaming up with crazy? I'm confused with that logic, but it doesn't seem very towny.

And just to address it, Parama, you were putting words into crazy's mouth.

But you took it as a serious vote because you're paranoid.

No evidence, no valid point.

I feel like Bub hasn't really been reading crazy's side of the argument because he continued to miss the sarcasm that was blatantly there.

I've currently read up to page 4. So far my idea is that theres a scum hiding in the winger, parama, DH crazy wagon, because crazy just seems to be sarcastic.

And then theres Sundy. His reason's against people were verging on idiotic and then he jumps onto a popular train. I don't think theres more that needs saying on that case. It's a stupid play style, but he does seem to redeem himself in post 108 and after that his ideas become much more easy to relate to.
Sundy makes good points, such as :

Sins of the newbie are sins of the newbie. However Winger's sins (casting aspersions on another player by inventing motives) seem more egregious than Pianist's (responding to his name listed in RVS).

and then winger pulls the typical scum move and gets defensive about it not by defending himself but by stating that it absolutely cannot be. Wingers is a simple case of shouting something loud enough and strong enough that people will believe you.

My final reads on everyone
Parama - his play style is aggressive, but it was the same in the last game I played with him and we ended up lynching him D1 and he was town, so I don't really want to risk that again.
crazy - seems sarcastic, but otherwise not scummy. He's come back from being wagoned and defended himself with reason.
DH - seems less like a scum and more like he just doesn't pick up sarcasm very well. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt on this one and call town.
Sundy - initially posted very poorly but has come back strong and now makes some valid points.
Twisted - seems to just be having a dandy old time.
Bub - I don't think he understands sarcasm either/he doesn't read threads very carefully..
AGar - I'm liking his rationing. doesn't seem to have said anything scummy yet.
Oso - I see nothing suspicious so far
Akira - I'll need more information
sordros - same lack of information
RBT - stop being ignorant and start playing the game that you're currently active in.
winger - easily threatened, comes back with remarks that make it seem like everyone is personally attacking him. He also likes to say things as if they are facts when they truly are not.

Winger is by far the scummiest character in this game.

vote: winger

[Cecily]

I'm with Sundy, I'm not thoroughly convinced that what he's saying is true. All of his play style indicates scummy motivations, but since he is new, I guess it could be attributed to that.

I'm honestly at a loss for what to do now.

Winger, did you intentionally answer questions without actually giving rebuttals, or did you truly think that how you responded to people's claims was the right thing to do? And can you explain?

[Cecily]

I like Oso's examination of the "lol".

And I guess there's no use in postponing my unvote so..

unvote

Winger, I'm glad you finally went through and analyzed people instead of just saying "I'm right" because that's a big part of the reason why I was voting you. I don't agree with your crazy call, because of how rational he stayed throughout the entire wagon. And I'm confused at you calling his post avoidance. If he were avoiding something, he wouldn't have posted at all, and it seems to me that his post was more of an acknowledgment without saying omgus, because everyone had been doing that at that point.

Parama, I didn't vote for you because of how you played in the last game we were in together. You were acting just like this, got everyone riled up, we voted for you, you were town. I don't like making the same mistake twice.

And I'm a female. It says so under my name.

[Cecily]

Parama, don't be a dick.

And I wasn't saying that you

weren't

right, just that I'm happy you gave explanation as to how you were right instead of just stating it matter of factly.
In response to 3a, I just don't see that. Differing opinions I guess is all we can attribute it to at this point.

[Cecily]

So TS, you don't believe that what Akira said was a scum slip, yet you're willing to put him at L-2?
That seems scummy right there. Jumping on the wagon even without believing it to be true and putting him close to something that could come down to a hammer. Easy set up, and not done very well in my opinion.

vote: twistedspoon

I don't think any scum would be dumb enough to reveal who they will be killing over night. It's common knowledge that after a doc claim, that person is a highly likely target for a NK. I don't see how Akira stating that makes it any less true and any more likely that he's scum.

His previous posts don't indicate such lack of thought to post something as revealing as he did, and so I'm not convinced.

[Cecily]

They're saying that he scum slipped in saying that winger will die tonight. People are making the argument that in saying this he revealed himself to be one of the scum. I don't believe that this argument is strong enough to constitute a lynch on him up to this point.

What other reasons do you have to believe he is scummy?

[Cecily]

Thanks, winger, I definitely didn't see/recognize that before.

Parama, if everyone sided with the people they stood on the same side as in

one

post, as soon as one person is scum that almost assuredly makes at least 4 others. In games like this, that doesn't happen. Stop jumping to conclusions without proper evidence and trying to get people to "reveal" themselves.

[Cecily]

A counterwagon implies that Twisted is targeting me first. He's not. I'm placing my vote on a person that I find to be the most scummy in his actions thus far. Wording in posts has been misleading so far, so I'm going strictly off of what I see happening. Twisted doesn't have a good reason for his vote (but I'm still waiting for him to respond with other reasons), and jumping on the wagon is the easiest thing for a scum to do.
My vote will stay on twisted whether or not other people see what I do until either he proves his scumminess and then everyone hops on, or someone else comes out to be scummier than he is.
And I'm still waiting to see how Akira comes back from his slip, because the comeback dictates more about a player than the initial slip.

[Cecily]

I'm not defending Akira. I'm saying that it could have just been an error in wording. Akira's response at this point at L-1 shows a lot about what role he's in.

Speech is one of the easiest things to mess up without realizing it, but actions, especially in a place such as this, are deliberate and show more about a person than what they say.

And I'm using the word slip loosely. I was just using it to reference what you guys were talking about without having to explicitly quote anything.

[Cecily]

I AM NOT SPECIFICALLY DEFENDING AKIRA.

I would be doing the same for another player (who I didn't find scummy at all up until he made something that other people are calling a slip).

I am defending the fact that word slip ups happen.
Votes don't happen accidentally, but sometimes people say things that they don't think through, whether or not they are scum.

[Cecily]

Everyone in this right now is so tunneled. Seriously. Take a step back and read what has been posted without bringing preconceived biases into it.

If voicing my opinion is going to get me labeled as scum, you guys really don't know what this game is about.

[Cecily]

@DH, I was talking about preconceived notions about me, not the slip.

All I was saying is I didn't see it to be a slip in the way that you guys saw it to be a slip. No scum would be that obvious.
But since there is honestly no way out of this besides voting, I guess I have no choice. If Akira turns out to be town, none of you have any case against me. And if he turns out to be scum, I'll be rethinking everything I've ever learned about human errors and be truly shocked.

unvote
vote: Akira

[Cecily]

You all are idiots. And if anyone plays that "I'll believe winger but not akira" game, I'll certainly be pissed.

[Cecily]

unvote

[Cecily]

Had to get that out before someone else came and hammered.

Do none of you actually talk to people on a daily basis? I don't even know what else I can contribute to this game. I've laid out my reasons clearly, and yet none of you seem to understand. I honestly don't get it anymore. I voted initially because I felt we were at a roadblock and I was trying to appease Parama and make everyone happy. Appeasement doesn't work.

Akira is not scum. Everyone's claims that we're a "scumteam" are not valid. End of story. Stop trying to wriggle around that.

[Cecily]

I am as townie as it gets.

Can I just ask how a scum could be so stupid to behave like I did yesterday? It would be suicide. No rational person would give themselves away like that if they were scum, so clearly I am not. The only thing I can say is that I am not stupid enough, if I were scum, to push so hard against an Akira lynch if I knew he was scum. I am not an idiot. I know how this game should be played, and I know that if I were in a scum position I would never have pushed so hard to keep Akira alive.

[Cecily]

I know you don't believe me, but just think of the likely hood of me doing something that stupid if I were a scum. I may not have gotten my claim right, but I'm no idiot, and I know what claiming as I did yesterday would have done to me if I were scum.

I played to the best of my ability for what I thought, and I was wrong. But killing me today will only help to lose the town the game.

I am a

vanilla townie

End of story.

[Cecily]

Ok, you guys are stupid. I am a

vanilla townie

.
I wasn't lying. I had no idea Akira was scum. Have fun catching the rest of em...