The Mafia with the Hydras - Game Over!

[Balam]

VOTE: DaSpotthatkillsu

How dare you besmirch our glorious name!

I believe my fellow heads wish to stay anonymous; as such, this posting head will not be signing posts, at least until I receive word otherwise.

Looking forward to this game with all of you.

[Balam]

UNVOTE:

The heads have come to the conclusion that we should join this bandwagon.

VOTE: DaSpotthatkillsu

My personal opinion on the matter is that Kcdaspot is too obsessed with signatures, and he may be using it as a distraction. Whether you sign or not is not a big deal; we have anonymous hydrae as it is, so it matters even less who wrote what. Moreover, it annoys me, and I like to bandwagon annoyances.

My other head wishes to make known that Unicorn Brethren is :goodposting:.

[Balam]

This head feels happy with the DaSpotthatkillsu wagon. I am even more happy that we are getting competitive wagons, but that is the bandwagon-happy part of me speaking.

Scum hydrae would be more likely to check their history and make sure they are not contradicting themselves, DaSpotthatkillsu.

Untrod Stranger needs some more posting. Now that I think about it, so does BeaverWeasel and GummyBear.

Can we please get them prodded?

Final Destination, why did you limit yourself to choosing between BeaverWeasel and Unicorn Brethren for your vote?

[Balam]

This posting head received a prod and some death threats in our QuickTopic. Sorry. Give me a moment to catch up and I will give you our thoughts.

[Balam]

An explanation of our lacking presence: we had decided pre-game to have this hydra be a one head posts style hydra. Our inspiration for this was the high quality of play from copper, a well known hydra. We see now that it is not effective if the designated posting head is not guaranteed to be available at consistent times.

I am of the opinion that YFC, as Fate pointed out, is off. I dislike the feel surrounding the Y[os]FC / Ether buddying, and I get the feeling of YFC tying to latch on to a town Ether. Ethe likes being affirmed, so I feel the level at which Yos joined with Ether while not really talking about anything else and letting it slide by is suspect.

Currently of the opinion that these people are town: Pathetric (As yos said, easy to read), FD (Fate is easy to read when you've been in a few games with him, and his posting here is sincere), and DSTKU (meta, not particularly strong of a read and we aren't in agreement within the hydra about this).

Neutral / Null reads: Untrod Stranger (Some good posting, but not enough), GummyBear (Not enough posts outside the Ether / SS debate to tell, and that left a slight edge of scum for me and edge of town for the rest of the hydra), and Reckamonic (Not enough posts).

Scum reads: YFC and FES. YFC's recent posting makes my read here less certain, but I really don't like the feeling I get whenever I read Yos + Ether interactions earlier in the thread. FES has overall not much in the way of content as I look through their postings. I don't approve of the FD vote, but that may just be due to differing reads. There's very little to look at that makes me have good vibes with a lot of commentary that essentially does null to the discussion. This read isn't as solid amongst the heads as it is on the YFC read.

I'll go out on a limb and vote where my mouth is:

Unvote, Vote: YFC

[Balam]

Oh, I seem to have missed some people in the game in that list. Greymarble's a very slight town read based upon his end disagreement surrounding the FD lynch, which was rather good posting. Mrs. Flay is null until they do something. BW's also null due to lack of recent content with a slight town edge. UB is null for me, but there is disagreement amongst us regarding that.

[Balam]

It is less your level of saying Ether is town and more the wholesale agreement with pretty much everything Ether was saying at the time regarding FD without giving anything more than glazed commentary on things not spoken about by Ether (at the time, not as of current).

Preview Edit: I didn't notice the time. Thanks for pointing it out. We've actually had this belief since the FD discussion but had been waiting for the posting head to have time to post. Needless to say, they haven't, so I've started posting as well.

[Balam]

We've actually had this belief

waiting for the posting head to have time

...

The Former Designated Posting Head speaking here. This head wanted to catch up in the game before posting the other heads' thoughts to ensure that the will of all the heads were incorporated, but as it turns out, I took too long. I'm still not caught up, actually, but we agreed that we needed to get a move on, and I've proven myself to be rather unreliable.

Balam, would you mind telling me who you're a hydra of, if you haven't already? Knowing that might make you easier to read.

Anonymous hydra. Since you asked, however, I'll see what the others say.

[Balam]

We've actually had this belief

waiting for the posting head to have time

...

Posting head having time to give a quick thought but not enough time to make a post ITT.

[Balam]

Ethe likes being affirmed, so I feel the level at which Yos joined with Ether while not really talking about anything else and letting it slide by is suspect.

That's a funny story. Yosarian was indeed acting kinda weird toward me early on, and that's

why

I decided he's probably town.

-Ether

I got a different impression, as it felt a tad clingy to me. Can you explain why you feel it's townish?

[Balam]

Balam, would you mind telling me who you're a hydra of, if you haven't already? Knowing that might make you easier to read.

Anonymous hydra. Since you asked, however, I'll see what the others say.

It is the opinion of this head that the heads should decide to reveal themselves of their own desire.

I, for one, am fine with revealing my identity.

I'm RayFrost, I posted the list of reads.

[Balam]

AGar here.

Not posting ITT afaik, simply providing reads in QT.

[Balam]

<- Equinox

Originally, we decided on me being the posting head because I was likely to keep all of the heads' identities secret while, at the same time, still being able to present the viewpoints of the hydra. Unfortunately, due to circumstances I can't exactly reveal anywhere, I've been blowing my Mafia hours elsewhere and did not catch up here until a few hours ago (right before RayFrost took over), and I'm still about a page from finishing reading.

AGar and RayFrost have been posting thoughts in the QuickTopic throughout. Being the silly goose that I am, I thought I should get a chance to finish reading, post thoughts, work 'em out with the rest, and then post like a proper play-by-committee hydra. It didn't work out.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Since I'm behind

again

, I'm going to talk about what's going on in our discussions first and then tear this thread apart in the manner I usually do. AGar-head has been keeping up, and RayFrost-head will probably appear in the QuickTopic pretty soon to pick at both of our reads.

My personal read is that YosFlavouredCayke is scum for, basically, stroking Pathetric; to me, it reads like grooming a potential ally, and town have no business doing that. AGar, on the other hand, feels that YosFlavouredCayke has been logical in the way that town are logical, and scum will miss logical steps as they try to push mislynches. I don't know what RayFrost thinks yet. I'm in the process of rereading, so we'll see how this gets resolved and get back to you lovely folk.

We're in agreement regarding Frogito Ergo Sum and Untrod Stranger in that they're null-leaning-scum. Iso reveals nothing impressive coming from Frogito Ergo Sum aside from early bandwagoning and whatnot. I dislike the early spectating behavior when it was Ether vs. singersigner as well as the weirdly-worded L-1 warning. AGar wants to vote, but I want to hold back until I've done this reread.

Preview edit: Reading what I just wrote there, I feel totally useless as a posting head. Trying to convey other heads' thoughts when I myself am not as well-informed as I'd like is HARD. So, yeah, I'm getting to that reread now.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

MOD: Separate vote counts are preferred.

RayFrost supports backing off YosFlavouredCayke because he feels the exchange between them and Final Destination are town-on-town. Therefore:

Unvote

I have some other stuff coming as well.

[Balam]

I knew that was going to happen.

(Equinox)

I don't know how useful you lot will find the spoiler, but I spent hours on it, so I'm posting it.

Spoiler: Equinox's Running Thoughts

Warning: Potential for wall and quote striping is at maximum levels. Potential for rage caps locking is high. Procrastination is bad for general health.

Let's go.

As for my lovely partner's vote I couldn't be more in agreement. The pathetric hydra started with alt-speculation, in which they called themselves a newb. I know this not to be true. Post 33 is also disconcerting at the moment since I am not sure what was meant by it.

Poe's law

Supah early reads: Greymarble is probably town. Pathetric is probably town. BeaverWeasel is probably scum.

What was this obsession with 6-men hydra, I don't understand it. Okay, it ended in 2 posts, that's cool. Might come back to this later. ...bluh, post 3 is policy vote.

Reading post 70 from Kcdaspot again, I... want to stab him in the face. Cool. Funny thing is, after seeing the other junk from Kcdaspot, I'm more inclined to lean null on this post (and the slot).

Supah early reads: Unicorn Brethren is probably town.

I find it mildly amusing Fate missed the fact that there were 2 anonymous hydrae, not one.

Uh, this is mildly town. I've seen town react like that to attacks they don't understand (case in point: Guderian in MoCO). Not sure how scum would react, but I theorize they'd be less emotional about it and would try to write it off somehow rather than full-on attack it.

Though if the above link is danakillsu and not Kcdaspot, I might reconsider my read there. Personality read on Kcdaspot.

Aw, man, danakillsu is on the whole FoS vs. vote OMGUS thing, too. Dun make me sad plskthx.

NO WHAT IS THIS. No, seriously, Kcdaspot. "But voting him so preemptively is anti-town." NO. STABBY STABBY STABBY.

Rules discussion. Eyes glazing over.

GummyBear vs. Pathetric spat. Second read-through reveals nothing but noise, possibly town-on-town. First read-through, I thought Pathetric was scum for making cheap shots; AGar thought singersigner was scum for dodging the "Who's scum?" question. ...I think I'm weird. Anyway.

Uh, Pathetric's vote on GummyBear for the quotes in 120 is weird. I don't see the connection.

I will try and get something up this afternoon, if I don't get auto-logged out again. (3 times it deleted my posts, three times I raged)

This punk didn't even bother to leave us a summary.

My curiosity is piqued at this question. DaSpotthatkillsu's insistence on this question is a mild town tell.

Out of 6 heads, no one stopped Unicorn Brethren hopping on Greymarble's crap/false meta case against AlmasterGM and Fate? Ugh.

I liked AlmasterGM's rage up until he spoiled it by making his Unicorn Brethren vote half a policy lynch. Ick ick ick.

Frogito Ergo Sum is too spectator-y for my tastes.

As I've said, I'm weary of anyone who thinks a six-headed hydra is a good fallback lynch.

I think Ether is particularly suspicious the way she got on our wagon, citing "thinking 6 heads is a good fallback lynch" as her reason.

wat

Not so supah early: Points docked from BeaverWeasel, points docked from Frogito Ergo Sum, points docked from Unicorn Brethren, points docked from Final Destination. This is where I start ragin' because THAT'S TOO MANY PEOPLE SAJFNSGW.

We didn't notice that it was L-1 when we placed our vote,

but we're aware of it now.

I'd do that thing with the incessant pasting or whatever, but I tend to want to stab myself in the eye when people do that, so I'll spare you all. Just have this quote.

This makes me sad, DaSpotthatkillsu. It sounds as though you expected suspicion to fall off if there weren't any additional posts -- SCUM MINDSET. Sad. My read is blown.

-> Whee. Distraction break over. Let's go again.

it's not like I just voted them over a theory disagreement.

If she realizes she voted them over only a theory disagreement

HE QUOTED IT RIGHT THERE. I doubt they'd be this blatant; the other thing was probably a misread, too, argh.

Must resist stab face Kcdaspot. AGAIN I GET THAT TOWNISH FEEL WTF. 'kay I'm trusting my gut here. And RayFrost's super secret meta tell.

(It's 2 AM. I'm grouchy and will probably type like a drunkard.)

Final Destination is probably town.

YosFlavouredCayke is probably town...

NO EXCUSES. Refusing to give reads because the mod won't tell you if there's day chat or not is . When I have dependent reads like that, I tend to say both possibilities anyway and then if the mod denies it, no big deal. Ick.

All that Frogito has done is wait for bandwagons to grow just big enough to hop on unceremoniously.

Bad.

This slot is unreadable. Someone kill Reckamonic please.

We still like our Final Destination vote - the meta argument has merit

Greymarble's meta argument? wat
I forget, did they mention Fate's active town style meta before or after this? 'cuz if it's before, this argument isn't as bad but is still wrong. Case in point: Mafia of the Chosen Ones.
...oh, it was made after the fact in 201. Bad, yes.

Your single vote change is enough to convince me of rampant opportunism.

I'm prolly being slow on account of it being 3 in the morning, but... THIS MAKES NO SENSE TO ME. >:(

(Though I suspect it won't make any more sense after sleep, either.)

Greymarble scores points. As does Pathetric for having town reads that match mine yay I'm not actually crazy.

Ehhh not impressed with DaSpotthatkillsu's iso of Pathetric. Good catch with FES's lack of unvote, however. Rest of iso is meh.

I would like to vote here, but We need a votecount first.

No, you don't need a vote count. Don't turn mod vote counts into life support. Make your own spreadsheet; life will be better that way.

Hey Froggy, being belligerent and insulting to everyone

wat

Oh. Wrong word. ...I don't like the feel of this post. Specifically, the questions.

...hmm. I see why AGar sees YosCayke as town based on logical movements. I have a different read, but we come to the same conclusion.

And we never said hat Froggy was bandwagoning A LOT either. Nice attempt at misinformation there.

He hopped on two wagons that were highly opportunistic.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is why WE MAKE SPREADSHEETS. So we catch scumbags like this guy. Now I'm going to be coy and make you look it up yourself. Probably less coy and more tired at 4 AM-ish with no sleep yet.

Uh, I didn't get the impression that YosCayke was calling FES-town, only stopping funky attacks against FES. >_>

Oh hai Equinox, there you are.

Balam-Don’t really have a problem with the vote on DaSpotthatkillsu, although I am wondering why, exactally; only thing he said was that thing about sigs, and that’s not exacatlly a scumtell. He hasn’t done anything since. Borderline lurker; just responded to a prod; expect to hear from them soon.

Lurking: Mrs Flay, Balam, Reck.
Lurkerscum: Balam.

Huh. Good to know.

YosCayke's reads are, unsurprisingly, biased in favor of active posters. No problem with the bias existing, but the bias existing is a problem. If that makes any sense at all in written form. Makes perfect sense in my head anyway.

Also, I've always found it amusing how absolutely predictable it is that, whenever I call out a bunch of lurkers, one of them almost always suddenly appears out of nowhere within a half hour of being called out and votes for me.

Ranted about this in the QT, but I fucking hate it when this argument is made when there's been no established pattern. If I do that 2, 3, times, OK, call me out on it, but this was not only the first time but also a coincidence. So no.

Page 11: The Balam Page. ._.

Cool, Balam's probably town then.

Uh, I appreciate it, I guess, but I don't understand.

GummyBear wall: *shrug* Needs moar reads.

"Misdirection"? WTF is this. And this too.

I see RayFrost's read of YosCayke vs. Final Destination as town-on-town. I AGREE WITH THIS READ.

Guuhhhh eyes. and brain i suppose.

What was DaSpotthatkillsu's read of Final Destination again? Was it town? I don't remember.

...Reckamonic's in this game? <_<

Oh, or are they content with letting minions like Yos and Scummybear do all the work for them? Let Yos and gummy attention away from Froggy, let them fuel the fires of FateRage and let that become yet another distraction?

"Minions": Implies YosCayke and GummyBear are scum. Well, GummyBear-scum was more explicit.
"Yet another distraction": Implies that YosCayke-scum is drawing Fate-town away from FES-town.

.....what?

YosCayke-scum is downgraded. GummyBear-scum upgraded. Pathetric is say what?

Literal headache coming on after that.

Oh God I wrote that post at 8 AM? It's fucking 4 AM now. x_x

Bleh.

PS. Seriously people this is obvious.

Yes, actually.

Ugh. I cant read Final Destination on YosCayke right now. My brain is mush.

Remind me to do it later.

Paranoid town on town. Cool. Moving on.

...uh, I don't get Unicorn's vote. ._. I KNOW I SAID YOS WAS SCUM BEFORE. NOW I JUST DON'T GET IT.

Oh, I'm done.

Whew. I'm tired and CBF with making a tl;dr summary. Here is your tl;dr.

VOTE: Untrod Stranger

[Balam]

We are unconvinced by the case against US.

What is so unconvincing about it? Untrod Stranger was caught making a false statement, and he's twisting left and right to make his round peg fit into a square hole.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

And that was...?

You called out Frogito Ergo Sum for "rampant opportunistic bandwagoning." When someone pointed out that this wasn't true, you wiggled out of it by saying Frogito Ergo Sum's singular bandwagoning activity was still opportunistic and that the modifier didn't matter. Your point that Frogito Ergo Sum was hopping on two wagons has been debunked, yet you're still looking for ways to stick to your Frogito Ergo Sum case. Town would have re-evaluated what they were doing, at the very least.

I'm trying Ether, I am.

Tell him a 3-headed demon will be visiting him very soon if he doesn't join us in lynching the man with the DERP sign.

Preview edit: I love you, Cayke.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

That's ridiculous. I listed the fact that there were no more posts from us in a bunch of other stuff, so it wasn't like it was my only reason there. And from the fact that I said "no further information", you should be able to gather that I meant they were switching votes with no possible reasoning. Or maybe you don't WANT to gather that?

I acknowledge that you had other reasons. I pointed out that line specifically because I

hated

it, and the presence of that line alone really blew my read on you for a while.

I didn't see a problem with Unicorn Brethren's vote. Their vote was previously on Final Destination, and when they didn't like that anymore, they switched back. *shrug* I didn't have a problem with their initial vote on you, either.

You would think that a game with like 30 people available to post that this game would go a little faster.

Not really. (Facetiousness aside, the fact that we're playing Dance Dance Revolution - Thumbs Edition in our QuickTopic is saying something... I'm glad I have one less game to worry about during midterm season, but still.)

Welp. Since I'm here, I might as well be annoying.

BeaverWeasel and Reckamonic, you've promised content since the dawn of time. Well, the dinosaurs are roaming the earth now, and the meteor is going to hit any moment now. If you can't get your hydra heads together, please for our sakes just post your own personal reads and then argue it with your heads later.

(I'm a hypocrite, wheeee.)

Down and out.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Good to see you again, Copper.

BeaverWeasel makes me :headdesk: because of these gems:

I am dissapointed that there are less YosCayke/Pathetric votes. Those two have had their heads so far up eachothers asses they will either claim masons or one of them is scum.

I can understand being suspicious of YosFlavouredCayke's behavior, but why (why, why, WHY) would you say this

out loud

?

@ Pathetric 48-49: We decided to remain anonymous before we signed up for this game, also, yes. Your effort early on to paint yourself as a newb was decietful.

I was hoping you were being facetious when you accused Pathetric of being deceitful with their "some newb" comment. (That's the Poe's law I linked to.) Apparently, you were not. Painting that as a scum tell, really?

I'm going to skip the consultation with my fellow heads and go with...

Vote: BeaverWeasel

That said, there are a couple of things about which I do need to consult, particularly how the wagons on Day 1 played out in light of new information.

It's odd that you're the first person to notice that.

Minor detail, but they weren't the first.

We bringeth down teh hammerrrr

I'd like to know what changed between March 6 and March 9 to make you do this.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I'm acting in my capacity as posting head here. We believe Frogito Ergo Sum is scum.

*hops*

Unvote, Vote: Frogito Ergo Sum

To cite one of the heads:

I know we never called him town but we thought he was very town, aka our stance on FES being scum yesterday.

Bullshit. This is a lie. You were voting YosCayke and pushing their wagon for most of Day 1 and you were still doing it at the end.

Final Destination was talking about Untrod Stranger, not YosFlavouredCayke. This is a terrible twist. In fact, here's the link to Final Destination's post, which conveniently quotes a post about Untrod Stranger. Note the full first paragraph there.

We're happy we got a wagon on BeaverWeasel (which we're now defecting) but uncomfortable with YosFlavouredCayke shooting down Final Destination's case against Frogito Ergo Sum.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Personal post rather than committee post.

Looking through Final Destination's iso, Frogito Ergo Sum is correct in that Untrod Stranger had nothing to do with Final Destination's read of Frogito Ergo Sum and YosFlavouredCayke based on their Day 1 posting. What's up with that, AlmasterGM and Fate?

I have a question for you, too, Frogito Ergo Sum.

Bad =/= scummy.

This is in reference to your comment about BeaverWeasel's 323. If you did not use "bad" to mean "scummy," what did you mean? You never really elaborated on this. Further, since you're on an entirely different wagon altogether, I'd like your thoughts on the other wagons.

Nothing changed between the 6th and the 9th other than we felt a case had been built against US that we felt needed to be followed through on. Also after doing some rereading this head finds the Yos/Cayke disagreement leading to a last minute hop onto the US wagon to be very controversial indeed.

"Very controversial indeed." Can you define this term "controversial" for me, please? This doesn't tell me anything.

Copper, how far along are you on reading? It's been a couple of days.

[Balam]

Balam:

An explanation of our lacking presence: we had decided pre-game to have this hydra be a one head posts style hydra. Our inspiration for this was the high quality of play from copper, a well known hydra.

Thank you for the endorsement.

And actually, we are not a "one head posts" hydra. We do strive for a similarity in posting style and convergence in reads so that reading us is the same as reading a normal player.

Interestingly, after claiming their heads to help explain their activity failure, it has been exclusively Equinox posting in the thread. The optimistic interpretation is that Equinox has found more time and is going back to being the "posting head." However, now that we know the identities of the involved players, I’m curious as to why Rayfrost and AGar are not posting in thread.

That was my misunderstanding about you lot, then. (I was the one who brought up the concept of a committee-post hydra based upon my belief that you did so and you all seem to work smoothly, so yar). To answer your wondering about my lack of posting, it's due to the fact that I don't find my typical posing style to be conducive to smooth hydra performance / clarity of reads, and I really don't want to actively change how I naturally type things up. Instead, I just post my reads in the hydra QT. If you'd

like

me to start

spamming

posting when I feel like posting without discussing with my fellow heads, then by all means say so. Do be warned, though: it'll likely double our post count (which would be rather unfortunate, in my opinion).

I don't know Agar's reason for not posting ITT, but he seems to have planned this from after we designated equi as the posting head. He also pretty much sai he wouldn't be when he said he was one of the heads (he's also quite busy with real life stuff, etc).

[Balam]

(Equinox)

The Unicorn Brethren frustrate us to no end. Please get your act together.

Also, questions, unicorns. I do not ask them so that they can be ignored.

On the basis of a single post that we thought was a bad one, not even a scummy one (bad refers to the quality of the case, not possible motivation), we're apparently supposed to throw away everything we have on FD?

All right, so we know now that you meant that BeaverWeasel's case was bad. What does that say about BeaverWeasel's alignment? You've mentioned others in your posts today, but you've explicitly avoided saying anything about this slot except "they made a poor case" and "we didn't wagon them because Final Destination was scummier." You can't just comment they made a bad post and then leave it at that.

AGar also expresses his displeasure at your response in post 377. You know my feelings on the matter, but here's his: Your response was not satisfactory, and instead looks and feels ugly as a backpedal.

In other news, I'm seeing a lot of :goodposting: which gives me really warm, fuzzy feelings inside.

Finally...

Prod: BeaverWeasel, GummyBear

The day should not end without significant content from these slots.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Balam’s 360 is alright. The last point they make (about UB’s change of heart on US) is worth mentioning: They had earlier expressed suspicion of US. Why ask about what "changed?"

On March 6, their post indicated they believed a scum team of YosFlavouredCayke, Frogito Ergo Sum, and someone to be decided later. In their very next post on March 9, they brought down the hammer on Untrod Stranger without so much as a word after 3 days of inactivity, so I felt it warranted some explanation. Looking back on their iso, I don't see their earlier suspicion of Untrod Stranger; the last post mentioning that slot was an apology of sorts for low activity.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

We are totally ready to drop it like it's hot on FES, but will wait for him to speak first.

About what, exactly?

[Balam]

This is an obligatory post in green. Hello everyone, this is RayFrost. I dislike the great lengths Yos seems to be going to in protecting people rather than aggressively hunting for scum. I can understand hunting for town for PoE, but the exclusivity in which he seems to be doing this is highly bothersome. My other heads happen to agree on this matter, which is why I'm mentioning it. They might've put it a different way, but I don't really care: I'm posting in green. That said, we are not certain that this is indicative of YFC-scum and merely feel it's a point of oddity. The Unicorn Hoes really should get their act together. They are mindnumbingly town in a very, very bad way. Sure, obv town, but also obv-not-being-helpful-in-a-single-freaking-way. Content, not mystery, unicorns. That is the key to gouging the scum and feasting upon their (possibly nubile) flesh.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Super ninja prod dodge.

Unfortunately, for the past few days, I've been neglecting this game, so I have no idea what's going on apart from getting a spiffy replacement (hullo there, InflatablePie and Parama). QuickTopic's been quiet, too, which is probably why nobody has taken over. I'll be out from Tuesday through Friday to take care of some heavy-duty writing assignments, so I'mma ask if any of the other two heads can take over for those days.

OK. So, gonna start catching up, like, now. If I don't come back within the next 2-3 hours, I fully expect to see knives flying my way.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Balam will not be V/LA this week.

Speaking from a group perspective: We're in much more agreement regarding town reads than scum reads right now. There's some disagreement about YosFlavouredCayke, and I don't think I'll last very long in the QuickTopic once I've pulled this particular stunt (see below). AGar still likes having Frogito Ergo Sum's collective neck in a knot. I don't think RayFrost has changed his stance on YosFlavouredCayke since Green Shirt Thursday, but I haven't heard him say anything about them since. Personally, I'm undecided^(!) on who's scum because I have yet to do the player-by-player analyses that I've been meaning to do since last week. I'll spend a few hours on those before I go poof for the week.

From a personal standpoint, I don't see YosFlavouredCayke-scum anymore. In addition to what has already been said about the idea of YosFlavouredCayke killing Pathetric, there's another angle to Pathetric's death: BeaverWeasel mentioned toward the end of the day how the two were acting like masons. I had the same thought, so it isn't unreasonable to suppose scum did, as well. Welp, they were wrong, but they've cleared YosFlavouredCayke by happy accident. This is my final say on the matter.

I love it when I pull 180s. *ducks*

Now that I've caught up... I don't have much else to say. I'm going to go reread the cases against Frogito Ergo Sum and then the whole Final Destination-Frogito Ergo Sum deal now. Not understanding why I'm sitting on a wagon is bad, even if my fellow heads do.

I've learned a lesson today: A game in which one plays as a hydra is still a full game and not one-half or one-third... or one-sixth. Yep. Urk.

Preview edit: Hi, Lord Fonzi.

[Balam]

Also...

Prod: Greymarble

I really want to prod Unicorn Brethren, too, but it's only been 2 days since they posted trollface.jpg. Grr.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

AGar and RayFrost have spoken and agree with my YosFlavouredCayke read. Yay for progress.

In fact, I think we've had more progress this evening (morning now, where did my precious sleep go) than the past 2 days. This feeling of accomplishment is awesome.

The heads approve of Lord Fonzi's push toward GummyBear. Since Day 1's fresh on my mind, I'm going to take a moment to point out that GummyBear is in the enviable position of being able to communicate 24/7, and they emphasized the need to coordinate reads during their argument with Pathetric. Of all the hydrae in the game, I'd expect those two to have the least amount of problems coordinating and posting.

On Day 1 reread, I like Final Destination's reaction to Greymarble, dislike Frogito Ergo Sum's efforts to stick to a meta case already debunked, and disagree with YosFlavouredCayke that the case against Frogito Ergo Sum at the end of the day was "weak." The meta case Greymarble pushed was bull from the start, and Greymarble themselves retracted it once they got a rise out of Final Destination. No point riding its coattails after that. Others read as townish or under the radar. Will have to parse GummyBear's postings later.

...guh. I was going to keep going alllll the way to page 19, but it's almost 7 in the morning, and I have not slept. Needless to say, I'm totally spent. I'll continue this upon my return.

AGar! RayFrost! I leave this to you~

For everyone else, I give you this to work with.

Kill the following: Frogito Ergo Sum, Super Vanilla Townie (but let InflatableParama have their fill first), GummyBear

I've got everyone else on varying degrees of town, so yay.

SLEEP NAO.

[Balam]

(AGar)

Pardon the schizophrenia here. I feel the need to press an issue a bit.

@YFC

You're doing a good amount of townhunting. This is completely acceptable. But the only read I've gathered from you to be anti-town is Final Destination. I'm interested in at least 1 other scumread, if not more, that you have.

Other than that, I'll be handling more posting load come tomorrow for a bit.

[Balam]

The frostiness checking in. AGar and myself will both be posting during the period of time that equinox is unavailable. I won't be marking who I am in the future merely as a point of laziness on my part.

To expand upon AGar's tid-bit towards YFC: we like town reads and all, but town reads are easy to give. If you have collected enough of them, you should be able to start actually finding scum via some scumreads in tandem with your PoE. There's a limit to the effectiveness of townhunting when it comes to our ability to read you based off of your reads. Aside from that is the fact that you can't just go around defusing all of the wagons without providing a wagon or two that you would support. The lynch is the town's biggest weapon, so who do you propose we use it on?

Also: AGar, I thought I was supposed to be the posting head until wednesday? Not that I'm complaining.

[Balam]

We find the previous post to be disengenuous. It is simply untrue to argue that YFC has not 'provided a wagon or two they would support.' BeaverWeasel who they were voting before, and Final Destination come to mind. It's certainly easier to recall who they suspect than say... Gummybear.

Furthermore, we are somewhat confused by their 'liking our push toward gummybear' and off of FES, and yet they themselves stay on FES. If they think FES is the best lynch, then we can't see why they'd like us moving off, on the other hand if they think Gummy is scummier than FES, we can't see why they wouldn't have followed.

I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. My issue is the fact I've found YFC pushing far harder at protecting their town reads than they have at actually getting us to lynch their scum reads. The two should come together rather than YFC focusing so heavily on one or the other. I might be misremembering, but YFC hasn't really one much in providing of cases for their scum reads to try and get people to vote with them.

We can like a push to someone we think is scummy even if you are moving away from someone we think is scum. We have a scum-flavored null read on gummybear, so your push there is :goodposting: just as a push towards FES would be :goodposting:. Your last point there seems a bit confusing to

me

. Why can't we have multiple suspects and support the pressuring of one of them while we go after the other again?

Will read the UB text wall after this commercial break.

[Balam]

Re: Copper talking about FD's "town frustration" not easily being faked, apparently they've not played enough with Fate or AGM. It's easily fakeable, especially by either of those two. Learn to read scum townfaking. Not to say its not possible they're town, but don't use townie frustration as a towntell from either of them.

In all likelihood, FES and FD are scumbuddies, and FD is looking for town cred by bussing. There. Since it's been said now, nobody should fall for that shit. If I'm NK'd I swear on all that is holy you retards better kill them both.
[snippity snip snip]
It's rather easy to see that: Either that's scum looking for ultimate buddying rights with us, along with an "I told you so" when we flip, AND just looking to pad out the post with extra verbiage... or it's town with waaayyyyy too much time on their hands, and not much stock put into to the timeless adage "Succinctness is pro-town". TL;DR: Copper is scum.

Vote: Copper

Fate buddying with Copper is to be expected. Fate buddies with the most pro-town players in any game regardless of his own alignment.

Being someone who has played with fate-scum an (IIRC) fate-town, I can inform you that FD is more likely town from a meta-basis, but I'm more than willing to look and see if you'll actually provide a case on them. The fact you go from "FD maaaay be town, but you really should not assume anything from this particular aspect of their play" to "FD / FES scumteam with bussing, KILL THEM ALL" to "Copper is scum" really makes me itch. It's bad, unsupported, an doesn't flow naturally together. Your reasoning for finding Copper scum is essentially "Copper wrote a lot" - being verbose is hardly an attribute that can be slotted to scum or town. If you'd like evidence, I can link you to the numerous text walls I've performed upon replacing in to numerous games as town.

I also don't understand how the bolded works with your "COPPER / FES / FD" scumteam claim.

This is an obligatory post in green.

[snip]

Content, not mystery, unicorns. That is the key to gouging the scum and feasting upon their (possibly nubile) flesh.

How's this post? ... Now be a good boy and change your vote to Copper if you know what's good for you.

It's terribly lacking, so no thank you.

I am glad that GreyMarble has unvoted. With three non-voters, and one of those players completely absent from the thread all of Day Two, ending the day now would be shockingly premature.

If you're glad that GreyMarble unvoted, then why didn't you

yourself

unvote? You had plenty of chance to do so. But oh wait. You were just actively looking for a mislynch, but now you're looking for town cred when it looks like you won't be able to push it through.

If Copper was not online upon the arrival of the near-lynching, then how would Copper have unvoted at the time? Copper came in

after

GM unvoted. Your reasoning here is still slip shod and stretching to the utmost to fit a Copper-scum frame.

I completely disagree with the "kill the following" list in Balam.Equinox's post #464 at this juncture. Haven't seen what you've seen, apparently. Care to explain your scum reads on FES, SVT, and GB a little more? And yes, 180s are usually bad. Though this hydra seems to do its fair share, I can't exactly control that, and I still feel un-hypocritical in calling you out on yours.

Preeety sure we've laid out our dislike of FES already. RTT. As for svt: it's the terribad hammer by beaverweasle that makes them a "must die" candidate. This is in the air during the period of time that svt catches up and makes posts, as their play may or may not make up for the scummy play of their predecessor. The GB hydra has been practically inactive in this game, and it's active lurking. They've posted elsewhere, they have the luxury of being able to talk about the game 24/7, and yet their posting here is lackluster and rare. It feels as if they are deliberately avoiding the thread rather than just being too busy to post.

[Balam]

Eh? UntrodStranger. I fail to see the relevance of your comment.

[Balam]

Oh, you said beaverweasle not UB (the actual hammerers) hahahaha. God, I should pay more attention.

We didn't really discuss the hammer past a "That hammer was crap" esque comment from equinox.

[Balam]

(AGar)

Ok, this is a straight up call-out on Gummybear. It's been almost an entire week since your last post here. You're both in scumchat at similar times. You're hydra has posted elsewhere since then. You guys have the biggest convenience out of any account to co-ordinate reads for a post. I'm beginning to wonder if the lurking is because you can't fake them.

Get to it. Pronto.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Cancelling V/LA. Situation IRL has gone to complete shit but at least it's given me time today to finish what I staretd Tuesday morning, and I really need the distraction.

Of course I have the most shittastic timing ever.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Greymarble, I don't know what you're doing in post 485, but since it looks to be a response to my 484, let me tell you something: If you were trying to accuse me of cancelling a V/LA for the express purpose of damage control in a Mafia game, you're wrong

and

out of line.

Furthermore, we are somewhat confused by their 'liking our push toward gummybear' and off of FES, and yet they themselves stay on FES. If they think FES is the best lynch, then we can't see why they'd like us moving off, on the other hand if they think Gummy is scummier than FES, we can't see why they wouldn't have followed.

I don't see a problem. I didn't move off Frogito Ergo Sum because the desire for Frogito Ergo Sum's blood in the QuickTopic was pretty high, and I trust AGar's and RayFrost's judgment; I assume neither AGar nor RayFrost moved off because they suspected Frogito Ergo Sum more than GummyBear.

---

Unicorn Brethren posting head for post 468, where the fuck were you? You should have been here when we were yelling and screaming for you in the dark, scary forest. (I think you're ReaperCharlie, by the way. This looks similar to Newbie 1040.)

I disagree with the Final Destination-Frogito Ergo Sum bussing theory. Your Copper scum read is

bad

.

I completely disagree with the "kill the following" list in Balam.Equinox's post #464 at this juncture. Haven't seen what you've seen, apparently. Care to explain your scum reads on FES, SVT, and GB a little more? And yes, 180s are usually bad. Though this hydra seems to do its fair share, I can't exactly control that, and I still feel un-hypocritical in calling you out on yours.

I thought I was clear about my kill list. I have varying town reads on everyone else. I have a scum read on Super Vanilla Townie's slot from BeaverWeasel's posting activity. I agree with Lord Fonzi's read on GummyBear. I have a scum read on Frogito Ergo Sum from my Day 1 reread and I'm sheeping AGar and RayFrost; since I'm here, I'll continue the reread to see how that holds.

Opportunistic 180 is certainly bad, yes. I don't see a problem with doing 180s when they are warranted, however. One should constantly be re-evaluating reads in light of new evidence.

---

As for svt: it's the terribad hammer by beaverweasle that makes them a "must die" candidate.

To add to what RayFrost has said already about discussion of the hammer, I basically raged that Unicorn Brethren was acting like a bunch of numbskulls for having such a nice set of 6 heads, but it was too bold of a move for scum. We didn't discuss it after that.

---

RE post 481: I fail to see how that's a slip. RayFrost was offering his read of the Super Vanilla Townie slot, and it was based on faulty memory. His line about how little we discussed the Untrod Stranger hammer is the truth.

[Balam]

You're right about the line. It's not your fault that you pulled scum here. Happens to the best of us.

Go fuck yourself.

I'll address the rest of that when I'm not thinking about how bloody your murder should be.

[Balam]

(That was Equinox, by the way, the less emotionally stable of the bunch.)

[Balam]

(Equinox)

...okay, post 488 from me was out of line, and I apologize for that. It's natural to be suspicious when one of the heads suddenly comes back when the other two heads have caused damage. I don't appreciate the comments from Greymarble, but I think I need to be empathetic with the situation here and realize that my timing was pretty bad, and I wasn't exactly forthcoming about the situation leading up to me having time for this game.

The next post from me is going to be a lot more civil.

[Balam]

Dun worry, you can't possibly offend me by insulting me

Oh, wouldn't I know it, GreyICE. Though the aim wasn't so much to insult but more to rage at your insinuations... Eh, I should stop here or else I will explode again. Whether or not you believe me when I say my reappearance was a coincidence isn't relevant.

Response time.

Anyway, you're saying that SVT should hang for... no. reason. at. all.

Not what I said. The slot has been scummy, and the only reason it's getting a pass now is because of the replacement. I'm not one to lynch people as they're in the middle of catching up; whatever they have to say is useful.

There really is nothing more to RayFrost's error than a lapse in memory. I don't see how forgetting that it wasn't BeaverWeasel who hammered is in any way a scum slip, but we're not scum, so eh, of course that blindness is going to be there. Carry on.

You tying us to Lord Fonzi before watching us flip, though, is... hilariously bad. More so because you're dead wrong about us as it is, but I also disagree with your read on Lord Fonzi. That slot's town with the pressure they've applied and the stances they've taken. Their move to Balam-scum was natural. (I'm wasting my breath, aren't I. Kekeke. Keep this for later when we flip, since I know you listen to dead people.)

[Balam]

(AGar)

Balam: Vote. Them. Then. It's like you're willing to do anything to look like you're pressuring them, except the one thing that will actually create pressure on them to either get their act together or ask for replacement.

FES. is. a. bigger. priority.

It's like we're not allowed to pursue suspicions outside of our main suspect unless that suspicion becomes our main suspect.. Would you like us to tunnel into oblivion?

I'd rather see them force-replaced at this point - 6 days without posting is a flake. But if the mod isn't going to do it, I'll call them out. Meanwhile, FES needs to die first.

If Equinox is back, I'll be back to simply posting in our QT, but this post of idiocy needed to be addressed.

P-Edit:

I haven't harassed you outside of the thread. I said I've seen you online at the same time, and yet no posts here have materialized. You managed a post in another game SINCE your last post here.

The bolded means I think you're lurking because you can't fake a case on someone and don't want to get caught.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

AGar and I are bashing our heads to the wall right now. It's okay; we'll have RayFrost clean up the mess when he wakes up, so the wall won't stay bloody for long.

We can like pressure being placed on another player, especially if we've been overlooking that player. Do we have to join it when there's other scum in our sights? No. I didn't feel the need to join a bandwagon on GummyBear in this situation and neither did AGar. If GummyBear is scum, then yeah, we look bad, but so be it because we're that sure of Frogito Ergo Sum.

The "tag team attack" on YosFlavouredCayke was coincidence. (I say that word enough I may make it my own freaking gimmick.) We'd been in discussion about YosFlavouredCayke at the time, and those discussions were independent of what others were saying about YosFlavouredCayke.

Also, if you're going to accuse RayFrost of lurking, you need to accuse me first. Our setup has been, up until now (and I think we're returning to this with my return here), post in QuickTopic, discuss, and then have Equinox post. We never clearly defined a rule about when the other heads would jump in, since we all expected me to keep activity up. Comedy of errors, wham, wrench meets plumbing. I suspect neither AGar nor RayFrost jumped in because they expected that I'd pick it up in good time.

Preview edit: I'm literally out the door and I see WALLS. Later.

[Balam]

Interestingly, after claiming their heads to help explain their activity failure, it has been exclusively Equinox posting in the thread. The optimistic interpretation is that Equinox has found more time and is going back to being the "posting head." However, now that we know the identities of the involved players,

I’m curious as to why Rayfrost and AGar are not posting in thread

.

If there's one scum motto RF lives by, it's activity. And look! It's Frosty!

Yeeeaaaahhhhhhh. See there's a bit of a problem with your "meta" here. You're basing it off of my "activity activity activity activity" line towards kcda in that game. This was a frustration line towards him because his play was fine until he stopped posting. Your meta, even if it's accurate about my scum play,

also describes my town play

. I'm a pro-activity person. This will never change about me. The fact that you are trying to support your case based upon a one-legged meta is, simply put, crap.

I shall reply to the rest of the postings about my "scum slip" of forgetting who hammered (apparently, I'm scum for

not being hyper-vigilant

in this game ) as well as the rest if I have time this morning, though I do have to go out rather soonish.

[Balam]

Preeety sure we've laid out our dislike of FES already. RTT

.

As for svt: it's the terribad hammer by beaverweasle that makes them a "must die" candidate.

This is in the air during the period of time that svt catches up and makes posts, as their play may or may not make up for the scummy play of their predecessor. The GB hydra has been practically inactive in this game, and it's active lurking. They've posted elsewhere, they have the luxury of being able to talk about the game 24/7, and yet their posting here is lackluster and rare. It feels as if they are deliberately avoiding the thread rather than just being too busy to post.

Eh? UntrodStranger. I fail to see the relevance of your comment.

Oh, you said beaverweasle not UB (the actual hammerers) hahahaha. God, I should pay more attention.

We didn't really discuss the hammer past a "That hammer was crap" esque comment from equinox.

My other head can lift this up if he wants to.

Vote: Balam

We ain't discussed it. But this don't pass.

....

....

Reading is tech. First quote: faulty memory = attributing the hammer to an incorrect person. This scumread is in the air until svt catches up.

Forgetting what I type = fun.

Equinox made a "that hammer was crap" esque comment regarding UB, which is how I even noticed that I was attributing the hammer to BW in the first place (hint: I went back over the QT when fonzi/WHOEVERTHEFOOK asked if we discussed the hammer extensively).

Go ahead and explain how forgetting shit, or, more accurately,

attributing an unusual/bad behavior to the wrong person by accident

is a scumslip, kthx.

[Balam]

You're right about the line. It's not your fault that you pulled scum here. Happens to the best of us.

Anyway, you're saying that SVT should hang for... no. reason. at. all.

Meh, I can read RayFrost like an open book. Didn't lynch him in 45 minutes on day 2 because I fail to understand him. He saw a read he didn't understand and grabbed a reason out of midair.

Everything after that was backpeddling.

My reaction to "I can read RF like an open book" is "lolno." You got a cop investigation on me in a town full of obv-town VIs for newbies and obv-town for everybody else after the lynch. The uncertain players (aside from me) were all on the D1 deadline lynch of

the mafia roleblocker

. If you hadn't chosen me as the cop investigation, you'd have been an idiot. Plain and simple. Trying to cock up

catching me once as scum

as anything more than the above is just. not. accurate. Now please kindly take a pin and stick it into your oversized head. One Game. That's all it was.

Geezus. SVT is scummy for te play of his predecessor, which is to say a bunch of not-really-content posts that don't contribute much to scumhunting before replacing out without doing much of anything helpful during the period of time they were here. SVT gets a bye from this suspicion during the period of time that they are catching up.

Please, feel free to point out the backpedaling.

[Balam]

The last three posts and this one = RayMotherFuckingFrost. RMFF for short.

To add to my "please feel free to point out the backpedaling" - please feel free to point out the backpedaling from the realizing I made an error in my attribution of blame due to not paying attention and how either one is a scumtell.

Also feel free to point out my "scumslip" and how it is, in fact, a scumslip rather than a slip of memory (which happens to me all the time).

I can 'like' someone doing something and disagree with the focus (or not agree enough to move my vote). It's incredibly weak, and I'm not overly impressed.

But why would you like it, when it directly leads to your stated primary aim for the day (lynching FES) becoming more difficult? When you're town and someone unvotes the wagon you're on, which you're convinced is scum, do you like that?

What we

liked

was you pressuring someone we wanted pressured. This does not mean we liked the fact you left the FES wagon to do it (hint: we don't). Your making our "like" comment about the entirety of your action when it was about a portion of it, not the whole.

[Balam]

Interestingly, after claiming their heads to help explain their activity failure, it has been exclusively Equinox posting in the thread. The optimistic interpretation is that Equinox has found more time and is going back to being the "posting head." However, now that we know the identities of the involved players,

I’m curious as to why Rayfrost and AGar are not posting in thread

.

If there's one scum motto RF lives by, it's activity. And look! It's Frosty!

Just realized I missed an aspect of this. I did post soon after copper said that, yes. I was explaining how we had decided to setup the hydra.

In fact, we will continue to follow this unless I need to post in order to deal with the fallout from my inability to remember who's who or Equinox ends up not having time. The fact you tried to associate her canceling V/LA to her-scum trying to save the gamestate because the V/LA was somehow a strategic one to let equinox do something (what I have no idea... oh, maybe it's a real V/LA that woudn't be dropped because oh something happened in a game) is just foul, by the way.

[Balam]

R to the A to the Y to the F signing out for now.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I bring GummyBear a message from RayFrost: If it's been a while since your last post and you haven't been able to discuss in real time, consider posting separately or using a QuickTopic. This would make it easier on all of us. Thank you.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

We're looking forward to seeing reads from GummyBear soon. Also, AGar wants to see YosFlavouredCayke's scum reads (aside from Final Destination) coming from YosFlavouredCayke themselves instead of "lolobv" from Lord Fonzi; he doesn't care if it's a "They smell funny" kind of read.

Also, Super Vanilla Townie, patience is wearing thin.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I bring you a message from AGar: That was a good post from YosFlavouredCayke, even though we disagree with their read on DaSpotthatkillsu.

Personally, the read I have on DaSpotthatkillsu is pretty much gut. Their behavior in the thread leaves much to be desired, but the things they've posted come off as genuine and sincere in a town way. RayFrost also has meta pointing to that slot being town.

Also good to see post 516 from Super Vanilla Townie. Definitely looking forward to seeing how those reads evolve from page 14 onwards.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I could post what Parama and I have written so far if that'd help at all, but again it's all old shit. And Parama's is kinda lengthy.

I'm going to go ahead and ask for these, since it would help me in seeing your train of thought with regards to your reads in post 516. Spoiler it if it's too long.

Frogito Ergo Sum, in post 450, you pointed out a number of things from DaSpotthatkillsu's behavior toward Unicorn Brethren early on Day 1. Would the possibility that those 3 posts you linked in the first paragraph came from 2 different heads make any difference to your read?

Greymarble, I realize you think I'm scum, but answer me this anyway:

I have to figure out why Lord Fonzi reads as scum to me.

Did you ever figure this out? What I see from you is a Lord Fonzi read dependent on Balam-scum, and you made this comment before RayFrost posted. I'm interested in your read of Lord Fonzi independent of us.

---

Okay, so apparently, this post is going to be spicier than I originally thought. Let's make this game interesting so that InflatablePie won't complain about how dead it is!

Haha, when have I ever given too many shits about meta Fate or AGM? I need motives, not 'perfectly consistent behavior that never changes.'

Let's set aside the second part of this sentence, "Motive." You've established a motive, which is an accidental scum slip. (Even though it is complete and utter bullshit and I cannot wait to see the egg on your face, but, for the purposes of this exercise, let's ignore that.)

Despite "[not] ever given too many shits about meta," you bring up RayFrost's meta from Newbie 1068:

Meh, I can read RayFrost like an open book. Didn't lynch him in 45 minutes on day 2 because I fail to understand him. He saw a read he didn't understand and grabbed a reason out of midair.

RayFrost says that your meta is bullshit, and here is why:

1. The strength in GreyICE's meta is the fact that there was a last-minute deadline lynch on RayFrost's mafia roleblocker partner, Kcdaspot. The nature of the lynch cleared all 5 players on the wagon, which left only two uncleared players off the wagon. GreyICE was town cop who didn't participate in the lynch. He investigated RayFrost that evening. RayFrost notes that all of the town were obvtown.
2. Saying that RayFrost's scum motto is "Activity" without mentioning his town motto, and when the only basis for GreyICE's meta at all is RayFrost's comments to Kcdaspot to keep activity up (and the reason Kcdaspot got deadline-lynched was inactivity), and then using it as a base for his read here is bullshit.

I've just posted the game to prove this, so y'all know I'm not talking out of my ass here. This is not the first time you've used false meta to boost a case, and the last time you tried it, you called it off when AlmasterGM brought on the rage rockets.

Care to explain why you're supplementing your case against us with false meta?

[Balam]

(Equinox)

In other news, my life is slowly getting back together.

Hope everything goes well, Cayke.

---

Greymarble, I don't think I need to wait for you to sort whatever it is you were doing to respond to this, do I?

I have to figure out why Lord Fonzi reads as scum to me.

Did you ever figure this out? What I see from you is a Lord Fonzi read dependent on Balam-scum, and you made this comment before RayFrost posted. I'm interested in your read of Lord Fonzi independent of us.

This is of particular interest to me. The other thing, too, but that's more RayFrost's area.

---

Being one of those people who take

forever

to catch up in games, I don't consider it a scum tell, but it's still annoying nonetheless on this side of the fence. Anyway, post 522, it's... lacking. I'm surprised they came up with only that much after 9 pages. AGar thinks the post was awful. Equinox wants to wait and see what they say when they finally gather their thoughts together (but would like them to speed up).

The hydra consensus now is that... well, there is no consensus, really. AGar is running out of patience and wants to hop onto the GummyBear wagon. I'd rather wait until GummyBear's V/LA is over and see if they deliver the promised goods and then judge. RayFrost has bloodlust for Greymarble, and with Greymarble's newest post, I guess we're in for a treat.

As for me, I'm bothered that the Frogito Ergo Sum wagon has been sitting like this for a while. It's become a fixture. I want to attribute that to Frogito Ergo Sum's overall level of activity given that I do believe this wagon is made up of town and everyone has expressed a reason why they're on it, but something in the back of my mind tells me something's up. Will look into this.

---

Oh, hey, previews.

I didn't think he was outwardly town but there was no way he was scum.

He didn't post much, but there was no WAY he was lurking, NONE.

TER RI BAD.

Um, Kcdaspot, are we talking about the same thread?

You're making

terrible

points. You say BeaverWeasel wasn't "outwardly town" but not outwardly scummy, and then you're on about how they weren't actively lurking and how they should've been skimming if they were. Terrible assumptions. Somehow, all of this makes them "NOT SCUM" enough for you to defend them this hard...?

I'm not buying this.

Unvote, Vote: DaSpotthatkillsu

[Balam]

(Equinox)

First off, Kcdaspot. I believe what Greymarble mentioned about Kcdaspot's nervous meta was also RayFrost's "secret meta tell" that he wouldn't tell me. However, he has recently indicated that danakillsu hasn't made appearances in their QuickTopic, and it's difficult to defer to people when they're not there. His posts defending BeaverWeasel are awful, awful like scum white-knighting and not town white-knighting. On top of that, the slot has had a defensiveness in their posts for a while that have been irritating, and I believe now that it's because they've been nervous about the suspicion against them from YosFlavouredCayke.

Moving onto Greymarble's wall, I'm pleased that you didn't back off us like you did with Final Destination. That would've been scummy, but instead, you react like this. Cool. You're dead wrong, still. Let's dance.

DSTKU - "Mild read" that has since reversed.

I had a gut town read on DaSpotthatkillsu from their posting early on Day 1, and RayFrost had his meta read. It has been reversed because new evidence suggests that they are scum. I'll reiterate that Kcdaspot's white-knighting of BeaverWeasel in his recent spat with YosFlavouredCayke was terrible in that it did not match the facts, and what he was saying rang false; if someone isn't scummy and isn't townish, they are

null

. You don't scream with a blue face that they're not scum, and the only way you can be sure that someone like that is town on Day 1 is if you are scum. New evidence, new read.

I hate the "easy targets" argument. Y'know, sometimes they are scum. We saw that they were making actions that could have been scum-motivated, and we called them scum. There is no reason to discount someone just because they're an easy mark. If you saw them drop town tells and read them as town, then fine, we disagree, but don't just drop things like, "Oh, GummyBear's an easy target, Balam is scum for attacking them."

This stuff is interesting. It seems to reveal the internal logic of their hydra. Or does it?

Funny you say that. That was pretty much a stream-of-consciousness paragraph you quoted, and then you miss the stuff after that paragraph. Thanks for knocking out the context, nice work.

Read that paragraph again and tell me you didn't see this:

• AGar still had a scum read on Frogito Ergo Sum. (I didn't elaborate because he didn't. Plain and simple.)
• RayFrost had not updated his reads with us since his post in green, so I assumed he still had YosFlavouredCayke-scum.
• Equinox has no scum reads because she needed to get a better grip on the game.

Did I word all of that poorly? Maybe, but I was revealing what was going on with the three of us in there. Seems you don't like it when I talk about things that way; I'll keep that in mind for next time.

That's the ONLY SALIENT POINTS you raised. Everything else has been "I like this." "I don't like that." "Agar thinks X, RayFrost thinks Y." "This hydra is coming to a consensus."

:badposting:

In case you didn't catch the memo, Equinox is posting on AGar's and RayFrost's behalf unless there are circumstances calling for them to post. What that's going to mean is I will say what is on their mind, and I'm not labeling anything as a "we" if it's just that person saying it. While I could wait for more consensus between us three before posting and do away with the "X thinks Y" lines, but the last time I did that, we were knocked out for a week waiting for each other to get caught up and post. Consider those to be reads from someone within our hydra; don't dismiss it just because all three of us didn't agree on it.

If one of us doesn't like something, we

don't like it

. We're not Frogito Ergo Sum; "bad" is going to mean "scummy" unless we say otherwise.

You're right that I've referred to the QuickTopic fairly often. There is a real reason for that, and it's not "lol we're waiting for consensus." There are things I can't talk about in the thread due to gag rules, etc. Take my word for it or don't.

Now... I don't want your blood anymore because I'm a lot more interested in someone else's blood. Whether or not RayFrost continues to feel bloodlust for you will be apparent pretty soon because he's going to be the one replying to your points about Newbie 1068.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Add UB to the maybe list, btw.

Put Copper on your Willing to Lynch list and it's a deal.

Vote: Copper

if we aren't already.

:badvoting:

Your points against Copper were refuted and people have expressed disagreement about them. Be less lazy and tell us why you so strongly believe Copper to be scum... because I really, really don't see it.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Welp. I missed something.

Where are these reasons that FES is scum? Well, I dunno. Just RayFrost and AGar want blood, and you trust their judgment. Coolio, I don't trust you. So gimme some reasons. I accept hydra head disagreements, but SVT and Copper are both doing things right and posting ARGUMENTS.

Funny story. When I said, "AGar still wants blood," that's literally all I got from him. I've asked him to come in here and explain why his read is so strong.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Sorry about the quadruple post. I realized I forgot yet another thing. I still want the answer to this:

I have to figure out why Lord Fonzi reads as scum to me.

Did you ever figure this out? What I see from you is a Lord Fonzi read dependent on Balam-scum, and you made this comment before RayFrost posted. I'm interested in your read of Lord Fonzi independent of us.

Now I'm out.

[Balam]

Now onto Equinox - that's the sort of stuff I like to see! Nice, solid, defense. You're scum, but you're going to make me work for it. And that's fun.

First, onto RayFrost on his meta, and lemme talk about that one for a sec. Four questions:

1) I called kcdaspot "OBVSCUM" in what ISO #?
2) The Jora and Fatso wagons were unviable because of who?
3) I buddied how many people who were not RayFrost in the thread? (followup: And I started doing it what ISO #?)
4) Who suggested that Neil, his strongest PR read, should "be careful?"

I may have screwed up my buddying a bit, but to be fair buddying is annoying enough when I'm scum, buddying scum when I'm town is a real trick (especially when you want to derail their wagon). Does it help having a town full of obvtown and good players like Neil to work with? HELLS YES. But don't blame my cop ability for that loss. But hey, being sore about that is a null tell.

1. Never. You went "YOU AREN'T BEING V. OBV SCUM RITE?" in iso #0
2. Jora because of Jora and my own efforts in that regard. Fatso because of you.
3. You buddied neil. Iso #1. You actually buddied neil more than you buddied me, and your buddying of me didn't extend past your iso #1, hence why your whole "I buddied scumz to make them not kill me" logic is not accurate representation. To contrast, your budying of neil continued throughout your posting whenever he came up.
4. Yeah, you totally read my mind on the fact I had a PR read on him. Using coincidental evidence to state your meta is accurate is piss poor.

The cop ability sealed the deal. I blame the REASONLESS DEADLINE LYNCH ON MY RB SCUMBUDDY CLEARING ALL THE OTHER SCUM POSSIBILITIES ASIDE FROM THE TWO OF US. You saying your copping me was somehow brilliant deduction on your part is lolfail. I was the only possible scum after the lynch from your PoV.

But that's all an aside. The problem I have right now with Balam is pretty much as follows: complete total inconsistency, insincerity, overjustification, and the fact they got a scum role PM.

Lets start day 1:

Currently of the opinion that these people are town: Pathetric (As yos said, easy to read), FD (Fate is easy to read when you've been in a few games with him, and his posting here is sincere), and DSTKU (meta, not particularly strong of a read and we aren't in agreement within the hydra about this).

Neutral / Null reads: Untrod Stranger (Some good posting, but not enough), GummyBear (Not enough posts outside the Ether / SS debate to tell, and that left a slight edge of scum for me and edge of town for the rest of the hydra), and Reckamonic (Not enough posts).

Scum reads: YFC and FES. YFC's recent posting makes my read here less certain, but I really don't like the feeling I get whenever I read Yos + Ether interactions earlier in the thread. FES has overall not much in the way of content as I look through their postings. I don't approve of the FD vote, but that may just be due to differing reads. There's very little to look at that makes me have good vibes with a lot of commentary that essentially does null to the discussion. This read isn't as solid amongst the heads as it is on the YFC read.

So lets go over these people

DSTKU - "Mild read" that has since reversed.

US/UT - Tripod is THE classic mislynch of the century, IS is unpredictable and varies between obvtown and scummy as hells.
GummyBear - Quadz and SingerSigner are definitely easy targets

YFC - was under a lot of heat, may still be scum, raw easy target in any case.
FES - obviously under piles of heat, CES is know to threadshit.

Inconsistency from the fact we don't have one person doing all of the work while the other(s) simply ignore the thread so we end up having different reads and do not attempt to spend days at a time to come to a consensus considering that the concept failed in the first place? Zomfg, obv scum.

Yeah, calling our change of read some kind of huge reversal when it's D2 and that was a D1 post. GENIUS.

Sure, but you did nothing to stop it, did you? Post-hoc.
They are also scummy. Scummy scum tend to be "easy targets" as you put it.

Completely ignoring everything we say about our reads to simply say the fact we have these reads is somehow scummy is funny.

Now, onto softer reason:

Speaking from a group perspective: We're in much more agreement regarding town reads than scum reads right now. There's some disagreement about YosFlavouredCayke, and I don't think I'll last very long in the QuickTopic once I've pulled this particular stunt (see below). AGar still likes having Frogito Ergo Sum's collective neck in a knot. I don't think RayFrost has changed his stance on YosFlavouredCayke since Green Shirt Thursday, but I haven't heard him say anything about them since. Personally, I'm undecided(!) on who's scum because I have yet to do the player-by-player analyses that I've been meaning to do since last week. I'll spend a few hours on those before I go poof for the week.

This stuff is interesting. It seems to reveal the internal logic of their hydra. Or does it?

No.

It doesn't. It's all a pack of fluffy nonsense. Here's goodposting:

AGar thinks they're town because of X,Y, and Z.
RayFrost thinks X is a nulltell, Y and Z are slightly townie, but N,P, and Q outweigh those.
I think Ray has a point, but it's not strong enough to move my vote there yet, as Q is rather weak.

In other words solid logical arguments that reveal disagreement. This is like "what I did on my summer vacation." It wastes words, time, and paragraphs, and is just laying the grounds for a votejump or position shift with no displayed in-thread logical reasoning.

I was a catch up post by equinox that gave a quick-look at her belief about our thoughts without my checking in and her completing her analysis. Of course it's going to be oh so lacking in the collective heads' reasoning. It's not like we are the only ones doing this, so your singling us out for this being scummy is noted.

Also, you're essentially saying we should have a certain level of disagreement and in depth reasoning that we should just hash out ITT to fill the game thread with noise as we argue back and forth. This isn't healthy. If we did all our thinking ITT, our "inconsistency" would be more (zomg, inconsistency is scumtellz), and it'd end up as argumentative threadshitting if we ended up simply agreeing to disagree. We decided pre-game that we don't want that, kthx.

Take this for instance:

I don't see a problem. I didn't move off Frogito Ergo Sum because the desire for Frogito Ergo Sum's blood in the QuickTopic was pretty high, and I trust AGar's and RayFrost's judgment; I assume neither AGar nor RayFrost moved off because they suspected Frogito Ergo Sum more than GummyBear.

Where are these reasons that FES is scum? Well, I dunno. Just RayFrost and AGar want blood, and you trust their judgment. Coolio, I don't trust you. So gimme some reasons. I accept hydra head disagreements, but SVT and Copper are both doing things right and posting ARGUMENTS.

You're reading me bedtime stories. And when pushed on the reasoning, it flaked. RayFrost thinks SVT is scum because of the hammer? Oh come on. RayFrost thought it was scummy not to have a reason to suspect svt and grabbed the first one that popped to mind. But it was factually untrue.

I don't remember when this post was, time-wise, but we do have a bit o' reasoning in our QT at this time, though I recall equinox posting reasoning.... I'm too lazy to check. That's on her.

Eh? Now you're just bullshitting. Misremembering something is hardly equivalent to scum going "omg I need a reason" and making one up. I had plenty o time to go back and check my acts if I was trying to make up a reason to avoid being scummy. The act I merely posted without doing so is due to the fact

I felt I remembered it correctly

. I suffer from sometimes-forgetting-things-itis. Also known as

not having a perfect memory

. Sue me.

And therein lies the problem. If the real answer was "Equinox thinks that, I still say the spot is null" then he'd have said that. If the answer was "general low activity level, it's not a strong read" I'd have bought that. But that reason? That was "it's scummy not to have a good reason!"

Nooooooooooo.

Equinox is someone I instinctively like, but I just cannot ignore the facts of the matter - Balam has posted tons and tons and tons of NOTHING. Balam has added less content to the thread than Spot and UB.

It was "I misremembered who the hell made the hammer and thought it was them and that is totally worth suspecting them for" which knocked out any "low activity" reasons when it comes to posting.

Yeah, sure. Total fluff posting. We're as contentless as a hydra that's posting probably 1/10 the amount we have that happens to have approximately 2 content posts. Yup, only one content post from us. MAkes perfect sense. Totally true. Man, you are a GENIUS.

Being one of those people who take forever to catch up in games, I don't consider it a scum tell, but it's still annoying nonetheless on this side of the fence. Anyway, post 522, it's... lacking. I'm surprised they came up with only that much after 9 pages. AGar thinks the post was awful. Equinox wants to wait and see what they say when they finally gather their thoughts together (but would like them to speed up).

The hydra consensus now is that... well, there is no consensus, really. AGar is running out of patience and wants to hop onto the GummyBear wagon. I'd rather wait until GummyBear's V/LA is over and see if they deliver the promised goods and then judge. RayFrost has bloodlust for Greymarble, and with Greymarble's newest post, I guess we're in for a treat.

As for me, I'm bothered that the Frogito Ergo Sum wagon has been sitting like this for a while. It's become a fixture. I want to attribute that to Frogito Ergo Sum's overall level of activity given that I do believe this wagon is made up of town and everyone has expressed a reason why they're on it, but something in the back of my mind tells me something's up. Will look into this.

Lemme summarize this:
SVT doesn't have much content and neither does their replacement
FES wagon is a little weird (like Copper wasn't saying that five pages ago)

Three paragraphs of FLUFF

> Completely ignores the gummybear commentary.
It's a checking in post to keep everyone updated on our thoughts. Got a problem?

I could summarize every solid point they made in the thread thusly:

1) People are lurking
2) YFC is spending more time finding town reads than scumreads
3) UB is weird because it reversed reads from midday until hammer
4) FES is scummy for pushing a metacase that was complete bullshit (and that I pulled the rug out from under)
5) BeaverWeasel is lurking worse than the other lurkers
6) kcdaspot's reasoning behind the defense of YFC is weak

That's the ONLY SALIENT POINTS you raised. Everything else has been "I like this." "I don't like that." "Agar thinks X, RayFrost thinks Y." "This hydra is coming to a consensus."

Ignoring my points against you, our commentary regarding gummybear, etc. You've essentially gone "everything that I don't feel like dealing with is absolute crap that doesn't mean anything, and everything that's been said by everyone else is all that you've said in this game"

Liking and disliking things is known as a read. Agar thinks X / RF thinks y is

exactly what you said we weren't doing early in this post

.

All the other reasoning is hiding in this mysterious QT. So deep in the QT you haven't shared any little bit of it with us.


Yup. Suspicions confirmed. Prolific active lurking.

Want my blood RayFrost? Bring it. But better bring reasoning when you do, because it would be a brand new contribution for you guys to this thread.

If you'd like, I can act like I replaced into this game, read the entire thread, and give you a quite possibly too long to read in any reasonable amount of time wall of text. Oh wait, you'd probably go "tl;dr version: FLUFF FLUFF FLUFF FLUFF FLUFF FLUFF FLUFF" rather than actually commenting. Nevermind. We've given quite a bit of our reasoning. The fact you go "lolflufflurking" in reaction to it doesn't make it go away.

Yes, because being sincere about a lack of agreement between us and saying where we disagree is active lurking.

I don't want your blood as of this post. You're still wrong, tunnel visioned, arrogant, and misrepresentative. Unfortunate that I get a town read off of you, really.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

We can't. That's all I'm saying on the matter.

Herp derp, Equinox.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Unvote, Vote: Greymarble

I have to figure out why Lord Fonzi reads as scum to me.

Did you ever figure this out? What I see from you is a Lord Fonzi read dependent on Balam-scum, and you made this comment before RayFrost posted. I'm interested in your read of Lord Fonzi independent of us.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Is there a reason you're avoiding the question of why you thought Lord Fonzi was scum, there, Greymarble? Do I have to look for you in a dark alley and beat it out of you? I'm getting irritated that this is the

fifth

time I've had to ask, and this isn't the sort of thing you need to discuss in a QuickTopic; I'm asking for reasoning you made in the past, not for new reasoning.

If you want to know why I'm insisting on the answer to this question, I'll tell you now: You dropped a "I have a gut read on Lord Fonzi, lemme see why" before the whole mess with RayFrost, and then you called us scum for some BS slip. Only then did you say, "AHA! Lord Fonzi is scum via Balam-scum! Yes!" I'd like to know you weren't bullshitting with your initial "gut read" there.

As for 575, I don't know what else I can tell you. That's our logic, that's how we came to our conclusions, and we stand by them. Disagree with that logic all you want. We're not scum.

[Balam]

Well this is quite silly. RayFrost gets +10 misrep points. I was wrong about US/UT, yes. I fucked up. Not all my reads are perfect.

So it's

not

scummy to make mistakes? Huh. Who'd have thunk it.

Rest of it can be summarized.

Greymarble: "I want to see what you guys are thinking and talking about in the QT" *quotes posts that show this* "I don't like the logic, so you're still scum"

How does this invalidate the fact

we've posted our thoughts

, which is what you said we weren't doing? Key thing here is the fact you quote a few posts showing where we are.

GreyMarble: "RayFrost, you said a bunch of stuff that I'm going to insult you over rather than replying to."

Nice ad-hom.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Fonzi I honestly haven't figured out. I'd use the gut read cop out, but my first game on site after watching Nikanor lynch two scum using logic and nearly two town with gut, I swore never to use that cop out. And I haven't figured out what reads scum to me. When I do, I'll say.

Fair enough.

Unvote, Vote: DaSpotthatkillsu

I'll say, though, that you shouldn't ignore your gut. Yes, there will be times when your gut is wrong but your logic is right, but I've seen it go the other way around, too. Use everything that's there and come to a decision. I don't think you needed me to tell you that.

I want the logic behind the opinions. I probed for it, and the displayed logic was LAUGHABLE. For a QT that produces a whole lot of opinions, it sure seems short on reasoning.

:headdesk:

[Balam]

As for RayFrost, I wasn't interested in debating meta then, I ain't now. The rest was just random insults and scumplaints.

> I wasn't interested in debating meta.

That's why you brought up meta in the first (two) places, right?

> The rest was just random insults and scumplaints

Again, completely dismissing the post without even attempting to seem like you aren't. For the record, you are the one who's been insulting (It's been... three / four times now you've insulted my intelligence. I know at least twice). Dismissing things as "scumplaints" is a really, really,

really

easy way to avoid having to ever reply to anything. "ur scum so it's a scumplaint"

Fonzi I honestly haven't figured out. I'd use the gut read cop out, but my first game on site after watching Nikanor lynch two scum using logic and nearly two town with gut, I swore never to use that cop out. And I haven't figured out what reads scum to me. When I do, I'll say.

I have to figure out why Lord Fonzi reads as scum to me.

Be back in a bit.

Copper votes are right up the Bretheran's alley. You may consider that name nominated as soon as the thread unlocks

Just going to leave this here.

Now going to cease to reply to the GreyMarble postings towards us because of the fact they clearly have their heads up their arses. Equinox happens to agree with me on this one.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

FOS: Equinox for disagreeing with Llamarble's logic.

This is mind-numbingly stupid.

[Balam]

(AGar)

Ugh...

(Equinox)

First off, Kcdaspot. I believe what Greymarble mentioned about Kcdaspot's nervous meta was also RayFrost's "secret meta tell" that he wouldn't tell me. However, he has recently indicated that danakillsu hasn't made appearances in their QuickTopic, and it's difficult to defer to people when they're not there. His posts defending BeaverWeasel are awful, awful like scum white-knighting and not town white-knighting.

Explain the difference.

For my examples, player X is the "white-knight" and player Y is the "lynch-bait."

Town white-knighting generally finds Player X defending a town-read on Player Y, using logical cases, thoughtprocesses and generally a line of thinking that you can follow from point A to point B fluently without questioning where a certain point came from or how they jumped across a logical gap the size of Nevada.

Scum white-knighting is generally characterized by Player X providing a defense of Player Y that is generally weak in it's logical patterns, and the stretch from Point A to Point B is often filled with gaps and chasms, and one questions where they came up with such ideas.

Kcdaspot, operating solo at this point I've gathered, has pulled a strange "BW wasn't lurking!" card out of thin air here in an order to preserve the SVT slot. The argument to me rings similar to the "It's not OMGUS if you put a reason in there!" argument - it's a semantics argument. I'm tending to lean with a DSTKU-scum read here based on the fact that they are white-knighting a player via a strange twist of semantics and with the knowledge that DKU is generally absent from the hydra at this point in time.

---

Greymarble - First of all, how much contribution is Llamarble actually putting into said hydra right now? I see a whole lot of posting I can chalk up to GreyICE's attitude and demeanor.

Now to the meat:

Grey, you're pushing a meta read on a singular head of our hydra here for the start-point of your case. Ignoring how bullshit meta is in the first place, you're using a half-assed meta at that. Basing a read off of one game (I don't care the circumstances, and I'm pretty shocked it was addressed to begin with), without so much as providing a hint that you've at least got a basic grasp of the player's play as the opposite alignment, is looking like a weak start-point. You then attack us on our post-style. While it has been admittedly sub-par, you're attacking Equinox for providing all aspects available in her posting, and being overtly transparent. What gives with that?

Kid your logic is ok. You're probing at something you want more information on. Good. But you're now refusing to actually acknowledge the responses made and instead countering with what you think to be witty retorts and underhanded trolling. Bad.

If you have something real to pose a question with, bring it forth. Otherwise, you can kindly go back to being a good town player and scumhunting the real scum.

---

Re: FES - I'd like their head lopped off and piked if possible, but that's just me. The biggest issue I have at this point is their clinging to FD. They admit that FD is highly unlikely to be lynched, yet they provide no other avenues for appeal other than DS. Now, I'm all for putting DS on the block right now, but they very meekly avoid the fact that their main read isn't going anywhere so they should be actually providing something to either 1) churn more people in the direction or 2) provide a logical jump to another player. They've been sliding by here and there, never giving too much, but posting just enough to avoid any real lurking suspicion. They come in, give their two cents, cling to their FD vote and then slide by a few more days until they feel the need to post again. Even their attempts to bridge the gap on DS has been very wishy-washy at best, as if they don't really want to go that way unless it absolutely comes down to it. Essentially, they realize their main suspicion isn't going anywhere, but they aren't willing to do anything about it unless pressed hard or a deadline looming.

---

@MOD

Do we have a definitive deadline here? We're approaching 3 weeks on Day 2, and yet I feel like this could go on for a very long time until the entire thread becomes lurk-city without the presence of a deadline.

---

Agree with Lord Fonzi's last paragraph re: Gummybear. You have been lurking, you haven't been actively partaking in this game, and you have been spewing more AtE than anything else in this game. You really need to shape up if you actually aren't intentionally lurking and instead are just being shit on by real life. It happens, but you seem to be making 0 effort to reconcile the issues here.

---

In the interest of us not becoming three players spamming the thread with our own individual reads, I am going to take a few minor thoughts to our QT. I'll bring forth a post later tonight after Frosty and Equinox have checked in with their input as well. But there have been a few things pinging my radar, and I've been in real-life city since Sunday unfortunately.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I'd love to strangle Greymarble right now if I could help it, but I'll just settle for rage.

Fine, I accept that my posts about Frogito Ergo Sum were poor. Though now that there's been an actual case, you just go, "lol it's weak," as I would expect from someone who has their heads stuck in a tunnel leading them straight off the Cliffs of Dover. Never mind that no such tunnel exists in real life, you just built one. When you're done rereading the thread, come back and tell me with a straight face that Frogito Ergo Sum weren't lurking the shit out of this game and that suspicion has fallen off because they've lurked themselves out of it.

Man, we should do this "lurking" thing, too, AGar. Clearly it's working.

Moving to daspot after RayFrost's meta flavored reasons not to vote for him is hardly any better.

Where the fuck were you when the teacher talked about consideration of new evidence? This line is made of pure stupid, and you know it. 0/10, don't do that again.

The same applies to your potshot about my change of stance between March 22 and March 28. Oh, so it's a crime now to change stances between 5 days and 11 posts of godawful scummy posting? Quick, we need to call the 2008 Scummies Steering Committee and take Vi's Paragon Scummy back! We can't have people changing stances mid-game, no, sir!

If you don't agree with my logic about DaSpotthatkillsu, fine, but FFS don't make such bone-headed theory arguments.

(Also, GreyICE thinking he's given

me

a lesson about metagaming was amusing, but I'll just take it without complaining.

Thank you

, you've made my world a better place.)

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Make that 2010, dunno why I thought 2008.

If we're going to lynch lurkers, we're lynching these guys:

Unvote, Vote: Frogito Ergo Sum

[Balam]

(Equinox)

PEDIT: Ninjad by my goddamn scumread. QQ.

Don't let me stop you!

I'm not going to wait for AGar for this. I'm not willing to lynch GummyBear at this point in time because they actually have a wider range of stances and reasons behind them, whereas Appleface has locked themselves onto a single pair without even mentioning anyone else except... let's see, Unicorn Brethren (town) and Super Vanilla Townie (bad lynch, worse than random). I probably shouldn't be accusing Greymarble of tunneling whilst these guys are still alive.

GummyBear has promised activity, and I intend to hold them to that. If they luuuuuurk and WALL again, they will die fiery deaths, but until then I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt and see if they do what they promised to do.

[Balam]

(AGar)

We've been explaining all damn day we think daspot is scummy. Are you even reading our posts any more? We switched because there was a wagon on him.

Gah.

Um, you have?

Let's take a looksie. D2:

Open with a FD vote. Tunnel on FD pretty hard. Mention DaSpot 5 days in once as being scummy. A week and 7 posts later you respond to DaSpot, explaining the basis of your suspicion, after some more FD-tunnel. Then the post about not swapping to a worse wagon, but would swap to DaSpot. DaSpot becomes viable, you switch.

I hardly see you explaining "all damn day" that you think Daspot is scummy. One or two mentions, yes. But not "all damn day."

Because there's a viable wagon that we agree with. You'd think that we'd be able to make a more useful vote than FD, but for the longest time the only genuinely viable wagons were the one on us and the one on BeaverWeasel.

You really didn't push to make FD or DaSpot viable, though. You were simply content to sit around and park your FD vote while waiting for the work to be done for you, so you could just slide over. You've done nothing to improve the viability of either of the wagons you were willing to get behind. Instead you've been content to sit back and just watch, and that doesn't strike me as a very town-motivated thing.

Okay, this half of the hydra is getting spotty (get it?) internet access, but I'll keep it short. The people on our wagon are:
A guy who OMGUS'd because we were supposedly OMGUS'ing
A guy who FoS'd us because a post "seemed suspicious" despite his admitting that the opposite would have been scummier
A guy who we've been trying to get lynched for this whole day

So...don't listen to them.

You're.... kidding right?

That's all you're giving us here?

@Balam: Your definition seems to be along the lines of 'If there's logic that's good and I agree with, then it's town. If I don't think the logic makes sense/disagree with it, it's scummy.'

We can see a logical thought-process and disagree with it, so no. We can see why Grey has been attacking our posting. We disagree with it. But I've said before, we don't think he's scum attacking us. I think he thinks he's found something and is chasing after it instinctively. The same goes for this white-knighting business. If a logical connection is there that can be followed, whether the actual reasoning there is something agreed upon or not, it's more likely to come from a town player.

[Balam]

(AGar)

Balam: I find it ironic that you are on FES for lack of vote hopping when the other members of your fine wagon have cited his vote hopping. Can you explain your reasoning for going after FES rather than Gummybear, because I can't see any. You do have that right? I mean you accuse FES of never moving their vote not three posts down from Gummybear refusing to move their vote in their first post in a while. What the hell?

Our accusations of FES aren't that he's

lacking

in votehopping. Are you illiterate? Do you not speak English? Or just stupid? Seriously. FES said "We want to lynch FD." The rest of the game pretty much said "No, not happening." FES then proceeded to sit there saying "Ok. But we're not going to move our vote, except to maybe DaSpot. But we'll see," and did

absolutely nothing else whatsoever

to make the wagon on FD viable, present another viable target or get momentum behind the DaSpot wagon. A town player's vote is their

strongest

tool and they pretty much stuck it away in a corner where it knowingly wouldn't be used at all.

[Balam]

Preview Edit:
Balam/AGar...do you then agree with how Lord Fonzi and "Gummybear" used their votes (I know I just referred to ourselves in the third person, but I couldn't think of a better way to grammatically say that)?

Grammatically speaking, it would be "do you then agree with how Lord Fonzi and ourselves have used our votes"

How do you mean used your votes? I see you revoting SVT, which is being addressed in a minute. Lord Fonzi isn't voting at this time. I need you to clarify this question, because I don't understand.

(AGar)

Balam: I find it ironic that you are on FES for lack of vote hopping when the other members of your fine wagon have cited his vote hopping. Can you explain your reasoning for going after FES rather than Gummybear, because I can't see any. You do have that right? I mean you accuse FES of never moving their vote not three posts down from Gummybear refusing to move their vote in their first post in a while. What the hell?

Our accusations of FES aren't that he's

lacking

in votehopping. Are you illiterate? Do you not speak English? Or just stupid? Seriously. FES said "We want to lynch FD." The rest of the game pretty much said "No, not happening." FES then proceeded to sit there saying "Ok. But we're not going to move our vote, except to maybe DaSpot. But we'll see," and did

absolutely nothing else whatsoever

to make the wagon on FD viable, present another viable target or get momentum behind the DaSpot wagon. A town player's vote is their

strongest

tool and they pretty much stuck it away in a corner where it knowingly wouldn't be used at all.

(AGar)

To my mind, not moving one's vote and moving one's vote too much are diametrically opposed actions. Perhaps you disagree with me. Do you feel that FES's new movement in self defense is a scum-tell or a town-tell? Feel like addressing the Gummybear aspect of my question?

What was the point of quoting that I posted it? As for your question, it wasn't the just parking it - it was parking it

AND

not trying to sell it as a viable lynch. Look at FES's posting. They vote FD (on an awful case, I might add), then park their vote. People acknowledge that the wagon isn't going to take off or gather any steam, but the content remains empty, the most we got was "We're not going to compromise to a wagon that seems worse. We might be willing to switch to DaSpot though." Does that look in any way at all pro-town to you? So we disagree to an extent - the actions you are seeing are not the same as the actions we are. You're seeing a much more simplified view of things, I would say.

Gummybear hasn't been our favorite poster this game, and we've acknowledged this. They are to a degree doing the same thing, you're right. But we've come to the consensus that while GB is definitely an acceptable lynch, GB is at the very least giving reads out at the time, with some logic and explanation behind them, and is on a "wait-and-see" basis, while FES has up until very recently been sliding by and practically lurked the case off of themselves.

Need to consult on the last question, but personally null, if you must know any answer right away.

---

God dammit GreyICE. Learn to post in your hydra.. AND THE RIGHT ONE. [/rant]

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Unvote, Vote: Unicorn Brethren

I want the truth

now

about at least one of two things:

1. Do you really have 6 heads?
2. Do you still stand by your claims in this post?

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I am retracting the questions in post 697. I've thought at length about the responses I could have gotten to them, and I realized that they would've been inconclusive. I also found out the answers to them with a little research, and I've concluded that it doesn't matter to me how they would have responded to my questions.

Right now, all I want to do is kill Unicorn Brethren with rage, fire, and extreme prejudice. The vote stands, and I don't fucking care if we're 7 days from deadline.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Well, post 702 came out vaguer than I expected, and I don't know how to word that better. Let's just say I had reason to believe they weren't who they said they were, and I wanted to verify that with them. Either way, I found the answer on my own, and I do believe they were being honest in post 36. Unicorn Brethren, if you weren't and you were just trolling us or something, now is the time to tell me so I can put you on this skewer sooner.

Stop prodding us. We're tactically lurking. FFS!

If you don't like the prodding, please replace out. I'm fucking sick and tired of you barely doing anything and flaunting hammers like you don't give a damn. Enough people are tired of this game that we don't need a slot trolling it. There are supposedly six of you in there; shape up or GTFO.

Though I don't think that rage is going to do any good because you guys are all scum and are just dicking around on the "They have 6 uncoordinated heads!" pass.

---

I might as well catch up now, too, while I have some motivation left for this game.

> My gut thinks it's unlikely that DaSpotthatkillsu and Frogito Ergo Sum are scum together, so it makes no sense for me to have scum reads on both of them. Still... DaSpotthatkillsu's post-hoc defense of BeaverWeasel was so terribly scum, and I still think Frogito Ergo Sum has been scummy, particularly with how they handled Greymarble's retraction of their Final Destination case on Day 1.

Can't they both die?

I need to reevaluate Frogito Ergo Sum. Yes, Equinox, again, dammit.

> Actually, in writing up a response to Greymarble's defense of DaSpotthatkillsu, I came to the realization why DaSpotthatkillsu seemed so sure of BeaverWeasel despite weak evidence. They're pretty certain that YosFlavouredCayke is scum, and if my memory serves correctly they're pretty sure of their second suspect (Frogito Ergo Sum, I think; forgive me for being lazy and not checking) as well. Being so convinced isn't good play, but I can see that happening. DaSpotthatkillsu is probably not scum.

> A response to Frogito Ergo Sum:

A completely unforced retraction of a case isn't a priori scummy. As far as I can tell, you made a case based on the observation that Fate wasn't aggressive which you didn't actually agree with as a result of a general stance on meta. I, on the other hand, think meta arguments are wholly valid and your "retraction" meant nothing to me.

As I understand it, Greymarble retracted the case not because they didn't believe in meta but because they made the whole thing up. Greymarble even admitted to this, which makes your continued push with it on Day 1 bad.

> Super Vanilla Townie is probably town. My belief is that town are more likely than scum to find a game boring. Scum play picks out all the things wrong with a town and exploits it, and I'd imagine this would be quite thrilling in a player list like this one. On the other hand, town may find an environment boring and unsuitable if they can't get any solid reads on anyone.

---

But now that SVT is requesting replacement...that slot has coasted for the past two game days through "catching up" but not actually catching up and eventually requesting replacement.

...and you still think them scum, Y/N?

Welp, this turned into a wall anyway.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

All right. That's it. Unicorn Brethren is indefensible. I want all of them to swing. I believe them to be scum due to shenanigans, but since it appears I'm the only one who holds that opinion: Practically everyone in this thread agrees they are a serious detriment to the town. We have 6 days to get 5 more votes on Unicorn Brethren. Honestly, if they don't die at some point and town loses because they were allowed to ride a pass for too long, we

deserve

to lose. Please make this happen.

Also, my eyes are glazing over with the DaSpotthatkillsu and YosFlavouredCayke back-and-forth. You two think the other is scum, we get it. Condense your points and leave it at that, and answer to us if we don't like your case or whatever. Thread sucks souls as it is.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Just finish the scum off. You don't let someone get to L-1 and not claim and then just back off of them.

I'm sorry, but my bloodlust and rage for Unicorn Brethren are significantly stronger at the moment. It's annoying me greatly that no amount of pressure and yelling can make them do anything remotely productive, and they're still blabbering about dropping hammers. They are coasting. That ends today.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

What fucking reads? All I know is you think Copper and apparently Frogito Ergo Sum, the rest were made on page 19 and are in all likelihood outdated.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Fucking hell. Ladies and gentlemen, this is why you don't post when you're angry. (Unicorn Brethren, use that tone and laugh at me again and I will fucking kill you, you useless baggage of a slot. But then again I'm killing you anyway and you're scum, so who gives a shit, right.)

All I know is you think Copper and apparently Frogito Ergo Sum

are scum

, the rest were made on page 19 and are in all likelihood outdated.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Some semblance of logic and reason has returned to this head. What I was talking about in posts 702 and 703: At first, I thought Unicorn Brethren were messing around with the identities of the heads of that hydra. Now I believe something else may have happened with that hydra, considering there was talk earlier about heads disappearing. However, my thoughts remain the same: I feel they're being dishonest now, and they're using that to ride the pass we as a town gave them on Day 1. Ergo, scum. (I see you trollin', by the way. Bring it, punk.)

But I'm going to go ahead and do this...

Unvote, Vote: Frogito Ergo Sum

L-1

We can sympathize with Balam in that the Unicorns are intolerable. The "that wasn't the hammer?" post in particular suggests

deliberately

playing to an anti-town meta, instead of merely failing to contribute. Were we hoodwinked by a deliberate ploy of "too scummy to be scum?" It's possible. But, nonetheless, I still can't make myself believe in earnest that the day one play came from scum. Now that the Unicorns have a reputation for failure, continuing to fail is a viable strategy, but it seems too risky to OPEN with such a ploy.

tl;dr -- "Are we letting them get away with too much? Mayb-- LOLNOPE." (Apologies to AGar; I ripped this right out of his mouth.)

I'm starting to see why there are complaints about you, Copper. You really didn't need to say all that. First half gives you some way to wiggle onto Unicorn Brethren. Latter half defends Unicorn Brethren. Wonderful.

YosFlavouredCayke

: Who's town?

Final Destination

: You disappeared for 4 days and XX pages. Got anything to add besides some shit about who's posting as what account?

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Guess what, guys? I'm going to hop off. It's too complacent of a wagon for me. Instead, let's get a flash wagon going.

Unvote, Vote: GummyBear

[Balam]

(Equinox)

>L-1
>complacent


.... yeah...

My impression is that there's not enough pushing off the Frogito Ergo Sum wagon for this to be a wagon on scum. There's YosFlavouredCayke's push against you, but I have a difficult time wrapping YosFlavouredCayke-scum around my head, so no dice there either. While I dislike Frogito Ergo Sum's play, the thread feels... I don't know, complacent? I can't think of another way to describe it. Yeah, we're all tired and want a flip, but I really feel this isn't an environment conducive to lynching scum. It's too lazy.

Even my fellow head AGar was confused by my GummyBear vote, so I'll explain. There have been numerous complaints about the game state in this thread, starting with Super Vanilla Townie, and then GummyBear busts in here and goes, "This game sucks!" Way to dampen the town's morale. Bringing town down in this manner is a scum tactic that I have seen work. I'd expect, after 4 people have complained, that the next person to feel that way would know to shut up and do something about it. Slapping a vote on the big wagon and then going, "Game sucks, can we move on now?" isn't productive. Heck, even deadline lynching is more productive than post 752.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Though now that I've actually taken the step of reading Frogito Ergo Sum's iso, I see ONE PAGE from the beginning of March to today. What the fuck.

Lemme meditate on this for a bit. -_-

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Honestly, a flash wagon on us is a dumb idea for two reasons: 1) we haven't been one of the competing wagons (at least one of which is targeted at scum, we think), and 2) there's barely any information to be gained from a quick lynch.

If there's one thing I hate, it's being limited to X options just because it's close to deadline. If I don't think those options are good, I won't take them, and I'm more than willing to spearhead a new one if I have to. I do not lynch for information; I lynch to kill scum.

I agree that flips are usually good for kicking games back into gear, but I'm not going to rush headlong into a lynch just for that. I don't want to lynch DaSpotthatkillsu; I think they're town. The situation around the Frogito Ergo Sum wagon feels abnormal for me; if Frogito Ergo Sum were scum, I'd expect some epic bussing or something, and their lurky play certainly warrants it. Instead, it's... this, and it bothers me. I'll do a more detailed reading later once I'm semi-done catching up elsewhere, but this is my impression of the situation right now.

Actually, maybe I'll just QFT this line from Greymarble:

On the other hand, no one gives a SHIT about these two wagons outside of Yos and FD.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

LYNCH IT WITH FIRE BABY

Who are you and where did you come from.

one head thinks gummy is scum the other doesn't over here... so... why is gummy scum?

Read their iso.

"WE DON'T CARE IF SOMEONE OUT THESE TWO GET LYNCHED, JUST AS LONG AS IT'S THESE TWO..."

WRONG. It has to be GummyBear.

In other news: YES WE CAN.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Welp. I misread. Sorry.

I've actually seen it on the 'off' setting of the 'on/off' switch before, and while slightly disconcerting, is still town.

Meh. I'll take your word for it.

As much as I love the flash wagon, I don't want an L-1 right away with Hammerhorns holding a vote. I'm interested in seeing what happens in this thread over the next real-time day, at least.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I don't think starting a flash wagon on you is the same as rushing into a lynch. I've had an entire game day to simmer on this one. I've decided that lynching you is the best option for today.

Saying there's only two options for lynching today keeps things extremely limited and forces a dilemma. It encourages lazy play, and it's scummy to be in that mindset. I don't think I'm narrowing options by saying you have to be the lynch today; either people agree with me or don't. I'm not saying, "Well, I gotta lynch between DaSpotthatkillsu and Frogito Ergo Sum today, not like there are any other viable options."

FD's vote isn't even worth addressing.

Why not? What do you think of his hop to you?

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Seriously, GummyBear, where was this activity when we were all on "wait and see" mode?

I'm not calling you "the only viable lynch." In fact, I made a pretty huge gamble voting you; the only other person on this was Lord Fonzi, so I was surprised by the sudden support. I'm pushing your lynch; I'm pretty much going to say "It has to be X" for a lynch I put my weight behind.

You insisted on this, so I'll answer it:

Also, how is lynching FES "rushing headlong" into anything? He's been near-lynch all day long.

If you put it this way, yeah, you're right; if I chose to lynch Frogito Ergo Sum, it wouldn't have been a rushed decision. There would have been a lot of thought going into that.

However, in a situation where I disagree with both of the wagons on the table, telling me (even if the request was a broad one addressed to the thread in general) that there are only those two options means I'll be rushing, headlong, into a lynch I don't necessarily agree with, even if that wagon has been sitting around all day.

Tell me how this is relevant because I fail to see it.

Now you're picking stuff out of my posts because you don't like the fact that you got run up to L-2, and it's a wagon filled with pro-town people. Don't start semantics arguments to fill the thread up with noise. If you think I'm scum for doing this, call me out on it; no softballs.

[Balam]

(AGar)

I'm not calling you "the only viable lynch." In fact, I made a pretty huge gamble voting you; the only other person on this was Lord Fonzi, so I was surprised by the sudden support. I'm pushing your lynch; I'm pretty much going to say "It has to be X" for a lynch I put my weight behind.

You insisted on this, so I'll answer it:

Also, how is lynching FES "rushing headlong" into anything? He's been near-lynch all day long.

If you put it this way, yeah, you're right; if I chose to lynch Frogito Ergo Sum, it wouldn't have been a rushed decision. There would have been a lot of thought going into that.

However, in a situation where I disagree with both of the wagons on the table, telling me (even if the request was a broad one addressed to the thread in general) that there are only those two options means I'll be rushing, headlong, into a lynch I don't necessarily agree with, even if that wagon has been sitting around all day.

Tell me how this is relevant because I fail to see it.

That point is fair, within the situation you mention (where you disagree with both current lynch options). However, you've previously acknowledged the scumminess of both wagons, especially that of FES, so I don't see how that particular hypothetical applies here.

It's relevant because you specifically mentioned not wanting to lynch FES because you'd be rushing headlong into a lynch by doing so, while it seems awfully clear that lynching FES would be far from a rush decision. It appeared to be an attempt to unfairly undermine our point.

Lynching FES wouldn't be a rush decision in terms of "time spent" deliberating it. It would be, however, in terms of "hey, we're not comfortable with this recently, but fuck it, don't stop to think on it, just ride it out." That you can't grasp that concept is disturbing, as Equinox has pretty plainly laid that out.

Now you're picking stuff out of my posts because you don't like the fact that you got run up to L-2, and it's a wagon filled with pro-town people. Don't start semantics arguments to fill the thread up with noise. If you think I'm scum for doing this, call me out on it; no softballs.

... No, I'm picking stuff out of the posts of everyone who's been posting this evening. You just happen to be posting frequently. Additionally, I'd like you to point out which arguments are semantic. I feel as though you're unfairly discrediting our arguments, again. We don't think you're scum right now; our townread on you stands. You're obviously not pushing for the easy lynch; if you were, you would've just stuck with FES. Honestly, I feel as though our inactivity in the rest of Day 2 is affecting your reactions to us now, and there's at least a slight amount of confirmation bias going on.

Do I start with "flash wagon", "rushing" and "headlong"? Yes, a flash wagon is a wagon that builds fast. No, just choosing a flash wagon isn't "rushing headlong" into a lynch. You haven't been a favorite poster all game, and you're aware of this. While the choice to hop off caught me off guard, and I wasn't at first in agreement with the sentiment, we've discussed you pretty regularly. You've managed to coast through the first two days relatively unnoticed, but now that you're under some pressure, the reaction has been pretty sour. Like scum that's been content with no attention, all of the sudden feeling the flames at their feet and panicking because this is very, very real.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I have tomorrow's lynch.

YES WE CAN.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

So you're saying that you are no longer in favor of an FES lynch? Because until our vote-post, I don't think you'd expressed that sentiment. You actually voted them to L-1 the post before you voted us. If you were, in fact, uncomfortable with an FES lynch, you certainly weren't showing it.

I didn't get uncomfortable until I saw your post. At that point, I realized the wagon didn't feel like a lynch on scum.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Pro-tip: Check what button you're clicking before clicking.

I can warily accept your explanation on the flash wagon thing. It makes sense, but I still feel like there was intent to lynch in that statement (however, it's very possible that's OMGUS/survival instinct kicking in).

Don't get me wrong; there is intent to lynch here. I don't start wagons at deadline for funsies.

However, as to a sour reaction under pressure? Explain how we've had a poor reaction to pressure. We're finally ready to put some time into this game (and again, our apologies for that not happening sooner), so we've been posting more. Hell, when we made our vote on FES, I figured it would throw a lot of pressure on us, but a) we think they're scum, and b) it's something new and different and would hopefully kickstart discussion. And hey, lookit that, it worked. We're in favor of moving this game along, and hell, if that means us getting lynched, then so be it. Interesting games are better for town.

You reacted by picking apart my wording in a paragraph about why I disagreed with the DaSpotthatkillsu vs. Frogito Ergo Sum dichotomy. That's not a reaction I'd expect to see from town who just had a wagon explode to L-2 (with threat of L-1) within a span of minutes. When I pressed you about why you asked me that question, you stated it was because you thought I was undermining your arguments due to confirmation bias; your time would be better spent discerning our alignment, not trying to convince me I'm wrong due to some words I wrote.

I have to agree that your vote did get me and other people back into this game, so +props for you.

...gotta admit that the thought of being able to launch a Unicorn Brethren wagon today is really, really tempting.

HI FROGITO ERGO SUM.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Hi Incognito and smargaret. Thanks for replacing in.

Holy... Now I wish I'd done that vote hop earlier or something. This revival is amazing to me.

Though I want to gouge my eyes out and stick cocaine needles in them after having to wade through DaSpotthatkillsu and YosFlavouredCayke

again

.

DaSpotthatkillsu is town. Full stop.

YosFlavouredCayke is probably town. I dislike their reads (i.e., DaSpotthatkillsu and Super Vanilla Townie), but two things stand out to me: 1) Pathetric made a point of stating YosFlavouredCayke had to be snowing them "very well" to be scum, and as I understand it they have good amounts of meta on each other; I'd like to think I can trust both Ether and Patrick... and 2) why on Earth would they kill Pathetric?

Unicorn Brethren are not town, please stop calling them town.

Copper, I've seen you around in the past 3 days. Stuff's happening in this thread; now get your collective butts in here and post.

[Balam]

(AGar)

I AM GOING TO RIP A JUGULAR OUT.

SERIOUSLY.

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

Gummybear posts an emotional little fucking "I know my vote was scummy, but oh well. It got the town talking! See, good! And if I need to die, so be it. The town needs information :tear:" and the wagon fucking pansies out? I'm going to fucking end someone if they 1) are not lynched and later flip scum or 2) we hit a no fucking lynch. Llama or Grey - please revote Gummybear, because those fucking scumbags need to hang. Instantaneously. For. fucks. sake.

Dear Unicorns,

Please stop playing like ignorant VI fucks. There is a game here going on, in case you weren't aware, and there are

6

of you. SIX. MOTHERFUCKING. HEADS. Get with the goddamned program. Stop floating around like morons and start being useful, or I swear to god I will go on another aclohol fueld rage and I will find. you. all.

- Beligierently Drunk AGar.

TL;DR: VOTE GUMMYBEAR INTO THE OBLIVOUS AFTERLIFE. FAILURE TO COMPLY WILL RESULT IN MOR EINTOXICATION.

[Balam]

(AGar)

FoS: FinalDestination

This is not town play.

You've been all over the map so far, and it's not matching up with where you would be if you were town. You were exceedingly passive until called out on D1, unleashed some holy rage, and then went back to passive-ness. Same thing on D2. Start off slow, wait for a moment, launch full-throttle for FES's throat, then when the wagon gets it's needed steam, back to the backseat.

You are the definition of the uncomfortable complacency we felt on the FES wagon yesterday. Today, you are repeating similar behavior patterns.

I would vote you with a thousand furies right now, but there is something more pressing here that I need to bring to attention.

---

I'm going to go out on this one alone without even running it by Equi or RayFrost here - while we would love to see FD dead, I think it would be in our best interest to PL UB today. Being that tomorrow will likely be LYLO if we don't hit scum today, UB will be a liability to have around tomorrow, regardless of their alignment. Scum is not going to kill them if they're town, and if they're scum, they're not going to kill themselves.

They have played a deliberately unreadable game, for god only knows what purpose. One minute they're posting mass chaos, and now they're trying to look like they're giving something reasonable to contribute, but instead the reads are scattershot and they are using asinine logic.

I have a strong feeling they will flip scum, but it's a good insurance policy in my eyes.

VOTE: Unicorn Brethren

[Balam]

(AGar)

I don't like that post one bit. AGar, have you always been a man of policy? I don't recall you pushing that kind of stuff in NG 1020 where you were town, and we had a player who you could have easily pushed the same kind of policy on too. Plus, why do this now rather than a previous Day?

I push policy lynches when I feel them to be appropriate. It is rare, but sometimes I feel it to be necessary. Why now? Copper had been giving UB a pass on their posting and we initially agreed that a scum-hydra would be suicidal to do such a thing, but since then the hydra has seem to taken that as an open invitation to let ReaperCharlie take the lead and threadshit away. Equinox also did attempt to make a push at one point on them yesterday, which was met by a general unresponsiveness. Read their posting from D1 on - it devolves into

the worst play I have ever seen on MafiaScum.

They are playing intentionally in a manner that leaves them distinctly unreadable, and have often just floated about waiting for an opportunity to say "LOLHAMMER."

There is no town motivation for the play that we can ascertain whatsoever, but if they are town like Copper says would be likely, they are way too big of a risk to keep around any longer.

---

Balam: Why are you so sure tomorrow's lylo and not today?

Considering TBM had this reviewed, any reviewer with half a brain should have looked at him if he set up a 9:4 and said "LOLNOPE." That's the short version. The long version involved how the push to make 13p games the new mini cap was to give town a better shot as they were sucking it up in 9:3, so 10:3 gives town an extra mislynch (D4 LYLO vs. D3 MYLO), and references several points in the thread that discussed the topic.

---

IOn the other hand, the case you make on Fate is significantly more convincing. I'm curious, Balam; it seems a little odd. Can you explain why you would make what looks like a really strong case against Fate being scum, and FOS him, while voting for UB primarily for erratic behavior?

Policy, as I said. We're pretty damn sold on FD, but I don't want to see UB anywhere near a potential endgame situation.

---

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Not a FD lynch! Never! Do not ignore us twice and kill the whole town with your idiocy!

Care to actually put something more than retarded spam in the thread for once?

---

Final Destination is not the play Today. I think they look town.

We disagree. What is your motivation for their belief to be town?

---

I would move our vote to FD right now, as it's apparent a UB policy lynch is not going to happen, but the Unitard isn't voting them which leaves them open to do as they please and fuck up again without any further input. Consider us willing to vote FD at any time, and FD at an L-1 equivalent.

[Balam]

RayMotherFuckingFrost in the hizouuuuuse.

I'm going to give my take on this game: it's been filled with easy swings. Too many of them. The game swung to Untrod from the early FES suspicion, then it swung to gummybear (I admit that we had a hand in both: not the point I'm getting at here), and now it's going to FES early in the day to FD after AGar's post.

The annoying thing about this pattern is partially the fact that the VCs give a grand total of absolute shit when it comes to reading any of you. The other part is the fact we contributed to the lynch wagons, and the votes surrounding our pushes feel anywhere from sincerity (YFC) to coattailing (spot), but these votes are in of themselves not strong enough to give me a feeling of alignment.

This game has me second guessing almost all my freaking reads. I'm not entirely certain about the feeling from AGar and Equinox, but I find the ease with which profaneconfusion switches to FES off considering these posts from Incog. Compare and Contrast. I generally don't like suspecting my MS-idol (heh ), but I feel certain in my suspicion here: the :quickswitch: of his stance is really unbecoming, and he still doesn't even want to lynch FES, just wants a claim. This kind of posting doesn't feel right: "lol, claim nao, not really wanting lynch tho."

I especially don't like the whole "I feel you squirmed out without a claim" when Incog doesn't go on to point out who, if anybody, helped him "squirm" out. Just feels like an attempt to mudsling instead of actually analyzing (contrast to copper above, even though copper's got the wrong person, it's still town posting).

Copper: FES isn't a town read. We just can't decide if the scummy/towny play of those surrounding him indicates that he's town or scum.

At this point, I don't approve of a UB quicklynch. Instead, I approve of

demanding

a case on who they think are scum that is thought out, not bull shit, and in a post that contains a minimum of threadshit / bullshit. I'd also like it if they elaborated on why they've been playing in a deliberately shitty manner this entire fucking game, but I think that demanding that too would stress their ability to not be douches in their posting.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

@Balam: If I tell you that I've observed 4 distinct scumtells from a certain hydra (whether I point them out or not... I like to keep even tells on others hidden, so that I can use them again. It's also the way I spot alts a mile off, usually), will you vote that player slot with me?

Is this ReaperCharlie? If it is, to hell with your secret scum tells.

Would I be correct in assuming that you'd like us to vote YosFlavouredCayke?

In the very next post, by the very same head, not seven hours later, Balam jumps right back off the wagon and encourages a quick push against GummyBear. The same FES that had been a consistent scumread throughout Balam's history. The only thing that seemingly changes in the interim is UB's unvoting of FES.

The move away from Frogito Ergo Sum was Equinox's (my) move. I saw that the Frogito Ergo Sum wagon had stalled, and I felt something was wrong there. My reasoning behind this is as follows: There had been talk for most of the day about Frogito Ergo Sum playing scummy. We thought he was scum, too. I expected a lot more coordinated pushing on or off the Frogito Ergo Sum wagon, whether it be scum bussing the lurky Frogito Ergo Sum out of the game or scum protecting Frogito Ergo Sum by pushing a different wagon. You can say, "There was a DaSpotthatkillsu wagon!" No, that wagon was too controversial to work in this scenario.

The change that led me to move off the Frogito Ergo Sum wagon was GummyBear's vote, not Unicorn Brethren's unvote. Unicorn Brethren only unvoted because they wanted to take control of the hammer; if they had some other reason, then they didn't state it. ("lol we're second-guessing," my ass.) For all intents and purposes, they were on Frogito Ergo Sum. GummyBear's vote and the reasoning posted behind that vote were scummy. I've already explained why yesterday.

tl;dr - I didn't see the Frogito Ergo Sum wagon as a wagon on scum. AGar and RayFrost agreed.

The allegation that we did not clarify our read on Frogito Ergo Sum is incorrect. I did so when I ran up GummyBear.

And, yet, when it came time for FES to eat the rope on two separate occasions, Balam has managed to play a big part in subverting that.

As I recall, I stopped it only once. If you can point out any other instances, that'd be great.

---

Let me explain a bit about AGar's push against Final Destination.

Yesterday, Final Destination pushed Frogito Ergo Sum and demanded that they be lynched, to the point where Final Destination claimed they would not add anything else until this lynch occurred. When I voted GummyBear for their "It's one wagon or the other!" vote, Final Destination hopped on, and the wagon was pushed to lynch.

Initially, I thought that was just Fate being Fate. However, we've thought this a bit, and we've come to the conclusion that their play has been too passive for the two heads that occupy that hydra. AGar also noted things about the Final Destination and YosFlavouredCayke interaction that bothered him, but he didn't expand on that with us, and I haven't had the chance to look -- so I'll have to leave that part to him when he gets back.

As for Unicorn Brethren, that's not a policy lynch. At least, it isn't for me. I've wanted them dead since yesterday, but everyone just went on their merry way as if my vote did not happen. Yeah, thanks for waiting until

today

to tell us we're off our rockers, despite most of you raging your heads off yesterday that they were playing like idiots and then, for some inane reason, refusing to lynch them off the face of the planet.

As for playing like idiots, that is why I believe them to be scum. On Day 1, they started off somewhat okay, and then their play went straight down the chute when people gave them the pass to be a 6-headed menace of a disaster. On Day 2, they continued that trolling behavior, going for weeks without any helpful contributions. Suddenly, today, they've decided they want to play again. SCUM BENEFIT FROM THIS SORT OF PLAY. TOWN DOES NOT.

This rush to defend Unicorn Brethren today pisses me off, and I'm willing to bet good money it stinks.

[Balam]

Hey yos sing along with me if you know the song...

In the big rock candy mountains, the jails are made of tin, and you can walk right back out again as soon as you are in

In other news, spot's town, and that is painful for me to say. Like really painful. There's no sum motivation to protect us.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

In and out. What's up?

[Balam]

(RayFrost)

In and out. What's chillin'?

[Balam]

We're not exactly certain at all about yos2. Mixed feelings about different stuff.

I'm upset that he didn't sing along with me and just ignored me, but I think I can get over it.

Aside from my hurt feelings, we've got issues on who we think the scumteam is, so our read on yos2 is really dependent upon certain flips and other stuff that I'm not sure would be wise to get into at the moment (revealing information about connections may influence scum actions). If forced to say whether I'm leaning one way or another, I'm slightly leaning town due to the fact that I'm not entirely certain about the feasibility of the scumteam(s) that yos2 would be in based upon our collective town / possible scum reads.

[Balam]

That was RayF, by the way.

Why'd you want to talk with me if you're having a hard time reading Equi, Incog?

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Hey, you two! What's going through your collective minds right now? What are your thoughts here about Mr. Yosarian2?

No collective thoughts right now. We're still in disagreement about half of the player list (Final Destination, Frogito Ergo Sum, Lord Fonzi, YosFlavouredCayke). I think our vote is on Unicorn Brethren at the moment; I still support that vote and RayFrost expressed support as of early Saturday morning, so there it stays.

I've been spending all of my time on a different game, so I'm not caught up in this thread at the moment. Not sure what else I can tell you.

As for YosFlavouredCayke, I'm torn because the stuff they've done make little sense to me as scum (i.e., NKs). AGar and RayFrost disagree (for the same reason, oddly enough). AGar has been V/LA, so we haven't had the chance to discuss this as a group. What I will say, though, is that RayFrost had made a post specifically for YosFlavouredCayke to respond to, and their lack of acknowledgment (as far as I'm aware)... guh, not sure how to take that, really, but it annoys me because we need that response.

Consider that a call-out.

Preview edit: Hi there, RayFrost. I'm posting this anyway because Incognito misses me.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Why would revealing info about connections influence scum interactions out of curiosity?

Personally, I like to see the natural flow of things for as long as possible, especially when I'm not clear about how to interpret a particular connection.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Because (AND DON'T TAKE OFFENSE TO THIS) I think Equinox might be better scum than you.

Hey, wait a minute. Wouldn't it make more sense, then, to get more posts out of RayFrost?

[Balam]

I don't take offense, but I do find it funny. Equinox better scum then ME? (deliberately giving you two recently completed scum games for meta purposes ftw) Equinox

is

better town than me, though. At least, when it comes to the looking town part of it. I think we're about even on the finding scum portion, so yar.

Why wouldn't it? We reveal that our list is x (town) / z (scum) / d (scum), b (town) / h (town) / a (scum), or u (town) / a / h, why would the scum ignore it? They could easily use this to their advantage: kill x over the night / push for the lynch of a or h, use the fact we feel there's connections to pseudo clear themselves in our eyes / get mislynches. Scum

not

taking advantage of the information seems more unusual to me than scum taking the advantage.

[Balam]

I don't hide my online status....

Also: we had equinox take the dominant role in the hydra

before the game even started

. You can iso us to see our posts regarding the whole "posting via committee" schpiel where we were suspected based off of lurking when equinox was inactive, etc, etc. We've gone over it.

[Balam]

Why wouldn't it? We reveal that our list is x (town) / z (scum) / d (scum), b (town) / h (town) / a (scum), or u (town) / a / h, why would the scum ignore it? They could easily use this to their advantage: kill x over the night / push for the lynch of a or h, use the fact we feel there's connections to pseudo clear themselves in our eyes / get mislynches. Scum

not

taking advantage of the information seems more unusual to me than scum taking the advantage.

True, but I don't really see that as a problem when you've got a decent town to back you up who's able to look into connections like that. Yes, there are times to withhold information, but I don't really see why a (potential) Day before LyLo would be a good time to do so.

Aside from the potential argument about how decent this town is based upon the lynches, there's also the fact the connections are still not formalized even within the hydra. We haven't gotten much of AGar's input due to his V/LA, equinox is slightly behind in the thread, and I'm prone to second-guessing my own arguments at this point.

I've got the issue of thinking something is "supar awesome logicz" and then later realizing that it's crap because something else that's the opposite is just as likely a possibility. My ideas surrounding this game are too heavily flip-based, which is something I

really

dislike. I prefer being able to catch scum on their own merits rather than going "I think this guy's scum but am not really that sure, let's gamble!" and then deciding on my reads based upon the result. I suppose it's a playstyle bias on my part, but eh.

[Balam]

Procrastinating from what?

Oh lordy. I think copper's town. The issue is... I've yet to play or read a game where I think/thought copper

wasn't

town. So yeah. The style of heir posting is kinda the blank walled poker face read that I can't really get through, and that makes me mistrust my town read even though it's a rather solid town read.

[Balam]

Also: every unmarked post on this page so far was from RayFrost. Equi marks her posts every time, IIRC.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I've got one last question and then I gotta stop procrastinating: what's your read on Copper?

I have a town read on Copper.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Oh. So you've played with Copper before? Have you seen them play as scum and town or just one alignment?

I have played with Copper-town. My read isn't meta-based, however.

[Balam]

Admittedly, I replaced out of the game in question early on, barely read much further, and now can't even find the game. I'm really using equinox's experience with copper. So when I say games *I've* read/played, I mean games read/played by equinox. Though she isn't using meta in her read, she has told the hydra about the little meta she has.

[Balam]

Back again.

The issue is... I've yet to play or read a game where I think/thought copper

wasn't

town. So yeah. The style of heir posting is kinda the blank walled poker face read that I can't really get through, and that makes

me mistrust my town read

even though it's a

rather solid town read.

So when I say games *I've* read/played, I mean games read/played by equinox. Though she isn't using meta in her read, she has told the hydra about the little meta she has.

Why did you lie? How could your read of Copper be "solid town" if you mistrust it?

I don't really think of it as a lie: in isolation, it'd be a solid town read, in consideration it's not as solid due to my mistrust. Perhaps poor wording on my part, apologies.

[Balam]

I

have

played a game with copper. It was ages ago, which is why I am having difficulty finding it now. Copper can attest to having a very brief experience with me in the game before I had to replace out (it was during my 16 games at once phase). Equinox has a completed game I have an unfinished one.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

The lie was the part where you said that you (RayFrost) were the one who played with Copper when it was Equinox who had done so. The second question was slightly unrelated to the lie.

RayFrost wasn't lying, Incognito. Read his posts again. My 1038 was a reflection of my personal experience with Copper; that was not meant to replace RayFrost's response about his own experience with Copper.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I have no fucking idea what is going on in this thread. Would you rather I gave you a half-baked read as though I were confident in it?

Also, please read more than the first line. AGar and RayFrost don't agree with me; don't take "YosFlavouredCayke is town" as the hydra's official read. Call this fence-sitting all you want, but if I am not sure about something, I damn well am not sure about it.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I JUST SAID I AM FENCE-SITTING. WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT. DID YOU NOT READ THE OTHER POSTS WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE WAITING ON SHIT?

Do you seriously believe that AGar, Equinox, or RayFrost would not bus YosFlavouredCayke at this point if we were both scum? But HURR DURR WIFOM LOL. No, don't fucking respond to that; I do not want to have to invent a way to drive a broken bottle through your face through the Internet.

You're so fuckin dead.

All right, then, Fate, let's get this Balam wagon rollin'. Come on. Ignore the derps who think we're town; you have enough people to get rope around our necks.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I KNOW YOU DON'T BECAUSE YOU DON'T GIVE ENOUGH SHITS TO READ MORE CAREFULLY.

NO NOT YOU TODAY

X

BUT YEAH, SAVE US FOR LATER, THAT'D BE PRETTY AWESOME FOR US. NO, REALLY.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

ALSO LOL IRONIC BECAUSE I'M NOT READING AT ALL.

ILL TAKE THAT TO MEAN YOURE A SCUM ROLEBLOCKER OR SOMESHIT, MIND CLAIMIN THAT IN THREAD>

I'M NOT DRUNK ENOUGH.

There, my bases are covered. Now I'm out before I get yelled at for threadshitting because this shit isn't productive.

[Balam]

Ohey, fate's being a retarded drunk again. Ain't this familiar.

You were wrong then, you are wrong now. Please stop drunk posting. You're posting is complete shit when you do. Your tunneling is wrong yet again. You're tiresome irritating, repetitive, and devoid of much of anything in logic. Please follow the advice I gave you in open 294 that you ignored and went "lol scum" in reaction to. Btw, who pm'd me saying "SHUT UP SCUM I CAUGHT YOU WHEN DRUNK" when I said they were stupid when drunk? Oh right, fate. Now, I dislike attacking people for their terrible playstyle rather than their actual play, but can you at least attempt to give a semblance of intelligence by

not

drunk posting? SERIOUSLY.

Now that the rant's out of the way, to respond to your "points"

1. Fence sitting - the only "point" even worth calling a point. Note 1) that equinox is the only one in this hydra that

doesn't

feel yos is scummy, and equinox isn't sure. 2) going "hurr durr, everything u sai is scummy scum scum lies" is a great way to go "tralalalalala, NOT LISTENING" while also pissing the other person off. GJ

2. "only scum cares how they look" - not true. I make sure to brush my teeth every day. Aside from that, this game's nigh near lylo if it isn't already there.

Why would town willingly let themselves get lynched over stupid shit (like your "points") when it would mean a loss?

Fate. Cold water. In your face. Then pass the fuck out. Then come back when sober. Maybe then you'll actually not be so skullfuckingly stupid in your postings. Until then, read open 294 over and over and over. Especially the results in this post. Remind yourself that you are absolute shit when reading anything involving me. Because you are. You always will be at this rate.

[Balam]

There, I summed up the entirety of my rage that was displayed in open 294 in a single post.

Moving right along to doing something completely without permission from anybody else in the hydra...

Unvote

Yos, I don't want to put you at L-1 yet because of the moderate possibility of a :quickhammer: by some derp, but consider yourself at pseudo-L-1.

I can see that you guys are too much of a buncha sacks o' derp to lynch UB, and that's fine. We can let deliberately bad play intended to make everything that's scummy seem like a VI-tell and let failscum win the game. That's fine.

I'm going to give you guys my reads here, just cuz I'm on a roll.

Town: FD (unfortunate but true: fate drunk posting like this is a town tell, even as he completely and utterly fails), PC (incog <3), daspot (unless kcda is completely self-aware of his meta and actively and totally changing it within the span of a single game, he's town)

Unknowns: The Gurgi (dependent on... stuff)

Shaky ground: Copper (reasons given), FES (I can't let go of my initial suspicion, but it's lessened)

Scum: UB, YFC

Reads will almost certainly change based upon lolflips.

[Balam]

As for Unicorn Brethren, that's not a policy lynch. At least, it isn't for me. I've wanted them dead since yesterday, but everyone just went on their merry way as if my vote did not happen. Yeah, thanks for waiting until today to tell us we're off our rockers, despite most of you raging your heads off yesterday that they were playing like idiots and then, for some inane reason, refusing to lynch them off the face of the planet.

As for playing like idiots, that is why I believe them to be scum. On Day 1, they started off somewhat okay, and then their play went straight down the chute when people gave them the pass to be a 6-headed menace of a disaster. On Day 2, they continued that trolling behavior, going for weeks without any helpful contributions. Suddenly, today, they've decided they want to play again. SCUM BENEFIT FROM THIS SORT OF PLAY. TOWN DOES NOT.

This rush to defend Unicorn Brethren today pisses me off, and I'm willing to bet good money it stinks.

This is patently untrue. We have, from literally our first post, explained why Unicorn is town. Yes, their play was indeed anti-town, but not scummy. What I find especially odd is that you once criticized us for our nuanced opinion, when we stated that we sympathize with the dislike of Unicorn, but they're not scum. So clearly you read it. And yet, you're acting as though not wanting to lynch Unicorn Bretheren is some new development. This reeks of petulant scum, whinging that "they're playing so bad, what do you mean I don't get my mislynch?"

Um. "You are wrong, we said why UB is town." Relation to what we said is nil with your first two sentences. Oh, I realize what you're saying. I'm sorry, but that post

wasn't just addressing you

. I know, I know, sometimes we talk about other people. Shocker. It's more the fact that, when we go for the lynch today, suddenly there's an uproar from multiple different people (contrast with yesterday where the vote went by without commentary). This is an issue because of the fact there's no agreement. None. It's essentially "yeah, they've been absolutely and completely unfuckingreadable on purpose and all, but that's not a scumtell." Not like doing this for two days straight and then, when pressured right out of the gate, suddenly posting quality is a scumtell amirite? Completely normal for them to be utter derps and then underp suddenly. Not like their initial derpage isn't clearly a ploy to get by. Not at all.

Start from the assumpion that Balam and FES cannot be scum together. A safe bet, in our view - when a scumbag is looking so close to being lynched, a hail mary defense in the style of Balam is just too risky.

Now, the scum are sitting in a fairly safe spot. They have a host of mislynches to chose from. And strategic scum, in those situations, don't simply bank the easiest one and leave it at that. They start thinking of HOW to get those mislynches.

FES is what could be called a "safe mislynch". Under incredible pressure from town, and playing with a vote-parking style that always leads to oblivion, sooner or later. Crucially, more FES posting is not so likely to improve their status.

Unicorn? A carnival of bad posting that is being correctly read by most of the thread. Still, there's enough dislike of them that a policy lynch could go through.

FYI: we aren't going after FES. Another FYI: IF A UB POLICY LYNCH COULD GO THROUGH, WE WOULD NOT BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION: IT WOULD BE NIGHT OR GG OR WHATEVER. So falsehood here. Moving on.

[quote="A penny for your thoughts]Gummybear? A lurker. But, and here is where it gets interesting, a lurker that

appears as though they will stop lurking.

Gummybear promised more time in the future. As well, Gummybear's vote on the FES wagon was poor.

So, secure the Gummybear mislynch first, then the Unicorn lynch (no one will ever policy lynch LYLO), and THEN revisit the well-prepared FES mislynch. Gummybear looked poised to improve, while FES has been apathetic all game.

Today's actions from Balam have been absolutely congruent with strategic scum. Unicorn is finally being something more than an albatross around our necks, and Equinox has literally used this as a point

against

them. We were frustrated with Unicorn for wasting a town slot; Balam is apparently frustrated they are using it. You are not content with a surge of content from Unicorn, so let's follow this thread a little longer: what would it take for you to view Unicorn as town?[/quote]

Yeah, sure, we just happen to be "strategic" scum that could read your minds and tell that you'd be fine with the gumybear lynch. Makes sense. The surge of content isn't the issue so much as the previous complete and utter lack of it. The contrast is just appallingly clear that they were obviously and clearly waiting until they had gotten a "solid town" read from everybody before even trying to be helpful. The deliberate obfuscating of their alignment was not just some failure. It was a complete and total scam, as evidenced

by the very content you say is good

. If they can suddenly post good content, why were they completely unable to before? People do not become intelligible overnight.

A believable, feasible explanation for why they were completely deliberate derpsicles d1/2 and are suddenly having intelligence d3 when the only changes are 1) the fact people say they are town 2) it's approaching lylo if it isn't already. Give me a pro-town motivation or explain how scum would not opt to do this as part of a strategy.

I can see that you guys are too much of a buncha sacks o' derp to lynch UB, and that's fine. We can let deliberately bad play intended to make everything that's scummy seem like a VI-tell and let failscum win the game. That's fine.

Ah, sour grapes. How unfair it is that Unicorn is correctly read as town with so minimal effort by

almost every member of the town.

Something worth noting in the bolded. What's the reason that it's only

almost

? Oh, right, because WE ARE THE ONLY ONES SUSPECTING THEM. That means that not only are the townies going "yeah, UB-town, who cares that they were deliberate fuckwads?" but also the scum going "yeah, UB-town, wut u talkin' 'bout balam?" - how exactly does this correlate with us being suspect based upon our suspicion? I'm not following your thought process of "lol, balam's whining because everybody but them is saying UB-town so they must be scum" - it conveniently leaves out the bit about how there's other scum who are actively defending UB regardless of our alignment.

How about a thought experiment. Assuming balam-town, how do you explain the fact that

every single player in this game aside from balam has completely shed their suspicion of the UB player slot

? It's seriously evaporated faster than water splashed onto an overheated car engine.

[Balam]

Reposting for *fixed tags*

Gummybear? A lurker. But, and here is where it gets interesting, a lurker that

appears as though they will stop lurking.

Gummybear promised more time in the future. As well, Gummybear's vote on the FES wagon was poor.

So, secure the Gummybear mislynch first, then the Unicorn lynch (no one will ever policy lynch LYLO), and THEN revisit the well-prepared FES mislynch. Gummybear looked poised to improve, while FES has been apathetic all game.

Today's actions from Balam have been absolutely congruent with strategic scum. Unicorn is finally being something more than an albatross around our necks, and Equinox has literally used this as a point

against

them. We were frustrated with Unicorn for wasting a town slot; Balam is apparently frustrated they are using it. You are not content with a surge of content from Unicorn, so let's follow this thread a little longer: what would it take for you to view Unicorn as town?

Yeah, sure, we just happen to be "strategic" scum that could read your minds and tell that you'd be fine with the gumybear lynch. Makes sense. The surge of content isn't the issue so much as the previous complete and utter lack of it. The contrast is just appallingly clear that they were obviously and clearly waiting until they had gotten a "solid town" read from everybody before even trying to be helpful. The deliberate obfuscating of their alignment was not just some failure. It was a complete and total scam, as evidenced

by the very content you say is good

. If they can suddenly post good content, why were they completely unable to before? People do not become intelligible overnight.

A believable, feasible explanation for why they were completely deliberate derpsicles d1/2 and are suddenly having intelligence d3 when the only changes are 1) the fact people say they are town 2) it's approaching lylo if it isn't already. Give me a pro-town motivation or explain how scum would not opt to do this as part of a strategy.

I can see that you guys are too much of a buncha sacks o' derp to lynch UB, and that's fine. We can let deliberately bad play intended to make everything that's scummy seem like a VI-tell and let failscum win the game. That's fine.

Ah, sour grapes. How unfair it is that Unicorn is correctly read as town with so minimal effort by

almost every member of the town.

Something worth noting in the bolded. What's the reason that it's only

almost

? Oh, right, because WE ARE THE ONLY ONES SUSPECTING THEM. That means that not only are the townies going "yeah, UB-town, who cares that they were deliberate fuckwads?" but also the scum going "yeah, UB-town, wut u talkin' 'bout balam?" - how exactly does this correlate with us being suspect based upon our suspicion? I'm not following your thought process of "lol, balam's whining because everybody but them is saying UB-town so they must be scum" - it conveniently leaves out the bit about how there's other scum who are actively defending UB regardless of our alignment.

How about a thought experiment. Assuming balam-town, how do you explain the fact that

every single player in this game aside from balam has completely shed their suspicion of the UB player slot

? It's seriously evaporated faster than water splashed onto an overheated car engine.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I'm sitting down and reading this game. Shock and awe. Oh, and I hate you all, and I want you to be as miserable as I am; therefore, you shall have a wall of derpage within the day. Before then, I have a few things I want to address.

---

First off, since this makes me angry:

V/La. Lost power in the storm on Saturday. Finally got power back, but cable and phone lines are still down, so still no internet at home, until someone comes out and fixes it.

-Yos

Does it not occur to you people that maybe Yosarian2 was announcing a V/LA for himself because he has no idea what crywolf20084's situation is like?

Painting V/LAs as scummy is a low move, yet for some insane reason people insist on doing this. If the person is posting elsewhere on the site or in other games, yeah, call them out on it. Until that happens, unless there is evidence that the V/LA is fake, you have no right.

...omg zzzzzzzzz... I'm skipping the rest of this gay-ass post. I have better things to do.

Cute. Real cute. The language was offensive, and you were asked to stop. This was childish. Do you seriously

try

to piss people off on purpose? If you are, congratulations, it's working, and you win the Most Valuable Poster of the Year award.

Now kindly fuck off.

---

Oh hey Look. DASPOT is missing from this list, some nice FAIL fakehunting.

Oh, to add to this fail:

A scumlist of UB??? (LOL) who earlier today you just said should be "policy lynched for being unreadable" so half your strongest scumread is for policy, and the OTHER half is your buddy you're too much of a pussy to put at L-1.

Also the tongue in cheek "If we was scum with Yos wouldn't we have BUSSED by now!??!" bullshit is laughable.

No, calling me town WONT appease me, and it won't get me off your scummy ass. Your SCUMPLAINING that my drunkposting is "wrong AGAIN! YUO CAN NEBER READZ ME FATE STOP IT!" is hilarious. Yeah last game I was "wrong" in truth I was just rambling incoherently to see who Nacho's buddy was, and hoping to dodge a NK by "suspecting" the wrong person.

This game though? Oh mannnn you are SCUMZ. Because I KNOW there aren't THREE townbags with shit for fuck reads (FES being the only townie I'll BELIEVE has shit for reads, with Yos and You being scum)

Read better, please. RayFrost did talk about DaSpotthatkillsu in that post you quoted. I know you're confident that you've caught us and don't want to read the posts in case we prove you wrong, but you should probably take a few seconds to make sure what you're saying isn't actually derp.

That said, perhaps you are blind to things that are not in all caps. Here, let me help you.

UNICORN BRETHREN PLAYED LIKE TOTAL IDIOTS, AND THEN THEY WOKE UP TODAY. "HAHAHAHEHEHEHAHAHA, YEAH, SORRY, WE TROLLIN'. NOW I'M BACK." TOWN DO NOT PLAY LIKE A SACK OF DERPS FOR AN ENTIRE DAY; THAT GOES AGAINST THEIR FUCKING WIN CONDITION. GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE INDISCRIMINATE HAMMERING AND TELL ME THAT IS TOWN MOTIVATION. SAY IT TO MY FACE. THIS IS A SCUM STRATEGY. UNICORN BRETHREN IS SCUM. SCUM. SCUM.

RayFrost did not trust the people not on the YosFlavouredCayke wagon to not pull a rush hammer.

There is a reason why we do not want this.

If it'll console you, you can say we're playing to a scum condition. I seriously won't mind.

You think we were trying to appease you? If we were scum, it would have been easier for us to actually OMGUS you, lynch you, and then get bussed the next day. But, you know, HURR DURR WIFOM. RayFrost had an honest read on you and did not hesitate to say it. If we wanted to buddy you, we'd have done a lot more than insult you.

Oh, and don't talk about "I was trying to see who Nachomamma8's buddy was." I can understand doing it in the thread, but this was after the fact and in private. You were gloating to RayFrost, plain and simple. Absolutely insufferable behavior, and the fact that you are trying to defend your drunk posting just really made my day. Continue, Fate, continue, and we'll see who gets the last laugh when it turns out you were dead wrong

again

. You'll probably just write it off somehow in post-game, though; I suggest working on that speech now.

[Balam]

(AGar)

I

think

I'm taking over again, now that I'm off of V/LA and my work issues are sorted out and I'm caught up in all of my games solo.

We are having some serious internal feuding here, I will echo. Our reads are not as focused as they have been in days past, as we're at a point in the game where we're all relying on different methods here, and it's clashing hardcore. Don't take any of our reads that are given as more than our own individual reads unless we say otherwise. We'll try and concentrate here, but if we waited to do anything until we had unified reads, our posting would be severely delayed.

As for YosFlavouredCayke, I'm torn because the stuff they've done make little sense to me as scum (i.e., NKs). AGar and RayFrost disagree (for the same reason, oddly enough). AGar has been V/LA, so we haven't had the chance to discuss this as a group. What I will say, though, is that RayFrost had made a post specifically for YosFlavouredCayke to respond to, and their lack of acknowledgment (as far as I'm aware)... guh, not sure how to take that, really, but it annoys me because we need that response.

Consider that a call-out.

I'm not sure what you mean; what do you want a response to?

I dunno. I'll ask RF.

Unvote Yos, I don't want to put you at L-1 yet because of the moderate possibility of a :quickhammer: by some derp, but consider yourself at pseudo-L-1.

Scum: UB, YFC

:eyebrow: Weren't you just calling me town a few posts ago?

:snip:

If your goal here is to try to force a claim out of me, go ahead and say so. Otherwise, I have no idea what you're thinking here.

Equinox was independently, as RF and I feel differently.

1) I personally want a claim.
2) Entertain me here - how much value would you put in Ether/Patrick's ability to read you?

---

Copper's attack was largely ignored by RF/Equi, but I'll do it the service of a few answers.

Now, it's easy to sit here and say Balam was wrong about US and Gummy and, therefore, is scummy, but that's not the whole story here. There were two very strong wagons made against FES in both days. Balam is on record as having a scum read (or, at least, not particularly liking) FES consistently throughout the game. And, yet, when it came time for FES to eat the rope on two separate occasions, Balam has managed to play a big part in subverting that.

I give you FES -> GB, but what is the other? And where do you think it makes sense to run a wagon up to L-1, sit on it and push it, then start a flash-wagon on another player as scum? What scenario is this beneficial?

I mentioned earlier that there was a bit of argument among our heads. Well, the argument centered around what Balam would do to start today. We ultimately ended up waiting for Balam to post, but the argument centered around what they would do. FES has, apparently, become a full fledged townread for Balam (even though they have yet to clarify this in either way post-revelation), because they've started off the day with a jab at FD for attacking FES, and they've given a vote for UB. We contend that Balam is, in fact, using FES for one of two purposes: Either FES is a partner to Balam that needs assistance in getting out of tricky lynch situations, or FES is being protected by a Balam hoping that FES will be lynched over their last minute objections.

So we're either scum protecting a buddy, or scum trying to protect a town player for town-cred? Great job giving the 50/50 there.

---

We disagree. What is your motivation for their belief to be town?

There was this expression I learned awhile back from Booker in my second Newbie game: "The cut of yer jib." It had something to do with a player's personality in the game. Final Destination hasn't seemed afraid of conflict (a trait that I more often associate with town than scum) and they've been taking an active role in scum-hunting. So I'm thinking town. smargaret pointed out some post of FD's in our quicktopic that made her think town and I agreed, but I'm too lazy/tired to look at it right now. Maybe later.

Have you missed the lurk city -> active -> lurk city pattern going on? It's a seriously inconsistent bit going that I don't like, and I don't see a town motivation for it.

---

I can see that you guys are too much of a buncha sacks o' derp to lynch UB, and that's fine. We can let deliberately bad play intended to make everything that's scummy seem like a VI-tell and let failscum win the game. That's fine.

Ah, sour grapes.

How unfair it is that Unicorn is correctly read as town with so minimal effort by almost every member of the town.

Equinox highlighted this, but

hello, scumslip

.

Considering we are the only ones who have even remotely expressed anything but a solid town-read on UB today, we could be the only other "member of the town" to not read him so "effortlessly."

But your vote is on us.

And I thought you were so much better than this, Copper.

Yosarian seems obvtown, or he's snowing me very well. I usually find him scummy by default, but he just looks like town to me here.

Ether's position on Yos points to YosCayketown, not to YosCaykescum.

Elaborate.

---

I really want to kill half of you, but primarily FD, YFC and Copper. I have strong suspicions about each of you. Currently trying to get us to come to a consensus about a vote at this point, we're in 50 different directions right now.

[Balam]

I really want to kill half of you, but primarily FD, YFC and Copper. I have strong suspicions about each of you. Currently trying to get us to come to a consensus about a vote at this point, we're in 50 different directions right now.

So you 'primarily' want to kill the three players who have most votes?

AGar, if it were solely up to you, who would your vote be on right now?

Yes, it so happens.

Vote would be on Copper. Massive failslip is massive.

---

Equi and Ray will be posting in QT in the next 12-18 hours, unfortunately real life has their priorities right now. I'll get our condensed versions up as soon as possible, I'm off until 10P Friday Eastern Time, so I'll be around fairly frequently.

[Balam]

(AGar)

Hopefully mith'll turn us on tonight.

Ooh baby.

Ok so we got our reads somewhat hammered out. We're 3/3 on about 5 reads, and usually end up 2/3 on the rest.

Mainly, we'll be moving our vote finally.

VOTE: Copper

We're feeling this to be the better choice at this point. They're playing in a way that seems very passive, moving to a wagon and then sitting there - similar in a way to how I viewed FES as playing - and not pushing for any support for it really, while Equinox has picked up on some attempts at chaining lynches, specifically in 1061. RayFrost has a nuller-than-null read here, which is why I'm ok with putting our vote here. Then there's the issue of the whole "almost all of the town" "leave vote on player we just insinuated was town."

The other two are interested that RayFrost's 968 got next to no attention, while RayFrost is mildly sad his posts have apparently been ignored in general.

@Copper

Please respond to "As I recall, I stopped it only once. If you can point out any other instances, that'd be great." from 969 (Equinox).

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I'm going to take a moment to elaborate here on why I believe Copper is chaining lynches.

More importantly, Balam and FES are almost certainly not scum together, so it would be foolish to lynch FES before Balam.

Copper admits in this same post that, if he were to lynch someone on individual play alone, they would lynch Frogito Ergo Sum. That to me reads like they do have a scum read on Frogito Ergo Sum. They then draw some associative tells that lead to the conclusion that Frogito Ergo Sum is a "safe mislynch" that scum are saving for later. Fair enough.

And then it's, "Well, it'd be silly to lynch Frogito Ergo Sum first, so let's lynch Balam now." What does this mean? When we flip town, it'd be silly to

not

go after Frogito Ergo Sum; Copper just said that Frogito Ergo Sum has been playing like scum and hopped off because of (unflipped) associations.

I don't know if Frogito Ergo Sum is scum. I know that the wagon on them yesterday lacked the characteristics of a wagon on scum. What I also know is that Copper is deliberately lynching someone we know to be town first, and they seem to be setting up the stage for what to do after we hang.

I can't help but feel that this accusation is an unconscious admittance from Fozni and Confusion that FES is townie. After our push on his wagon yesterday, it's certainly true that we haven't been as pro-town as those voting for scum. It feels as though we're being implicated for our efforts in securing a mislynch, before that mislynch is secured.

Fun fact: We don't have any scum flips. So... how is Copper not as pro-town "as those voting for scum"?

[Balam]

(AGar)

Also, oh look. As soon as attention switches to Copper over FD, FD starts lurking again. Who could possibly have predicted that?

Ooh, ooh! Pick me! Pick me!

---

Day One, with a burgeoning wagon on FES, you voted for both YFC and Untrod Stranger, despite listing a preference for FES.

Highlight this explicitly.

Oh wait, you can't. To correct you on what you're getting at, we had a scum-read on YFC and FES (given in the same post, mind you) at one point on D1 that was announced, and we chose YFC. We made no indication of "preference" and we chose to pursue the avenue where we felt more information would spring from. It wasn't until D2 where we even committed to a vote on FES and declared him a top priority.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill here. The simple fact is, we don't like speaking in absolutes. Yes, marching down the playerlist, we can't find another player with non-trivial suspicion of UB. But when we're writing a post, we don't take the time to analyze where every player is sitting before deciding whether or not to write an "almost." We just go off of our knowledge that there is very little support for a UB lynch, and write the sentence with a bureaucrats "almost".

"Oh man, we slipped. How can we channel our inner Obama and make lots of words here so it looks like we have an educated response?"

On the same topic, this is an unfair argument. As opposed to speculating as to who we'd vote next, we'd imagine, on D3, you'd have concrete evidence of us "chaining lynches". Instead, you choose to speculate as to how we will react in future scenarios. You're right, you don't know if FES is scum, and neither do we. However, one of us is on record of actively subverting the FES wagon twice. It's not your being wrong that makes you scum, it's that you act on these end-of-day whims the coincide so perfectly with sparing one person.

I mean, this is evidence that anyone can look at. We're not speculating as to what you're going to be doing tomorrow (if you're alive tomorrow), but, rather, we're pointing out a direct correlation and pattern. We'd say this is significantly more substantial than "they seem to be setting up the stage [for D4]".

So in other words... don't analyze your posts for any potential motivations we might be able to glean? Gotcha, champ.

You specifically stated that there is scum between us and FES, and one is not scum with the other, so you should lynch us first. We know we'll flip town. I personally got a gut feeling that you know that too. Call it a hunch. Or a scumread, maybe. Just maybe. So, the intelligent follow-up would be to chase down your next suspicion - FES - tomorrow when we flip town, since there is scum between us and we're not that scum, y'know? This gives me a bit of a feel for trying to chain lynches, get your mislynch FIRST, then bus a buddy in LYLO for "mad town cred." Am I on the money here? Because that's kinda how I roll, being right and all.

Your mind games aren't strong enough.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Let's start here.

Enough of that... I'm slightly drunk still and uhh.

ILL TAKE THAT TO MEAN YOURE A SCUM ROLEBLOCKER OR SOMESHIT, MIND CLAIMIN THAT IN THREAD>

This game though? Oh mannnn you are SCUMZ. Because I KNOW there aren't THREE townbags with shit for fuck reads (FES being the only townie I'll BELIEVE has shit for reads, with Yos and You being scum)

Actually, to be 100% honest I was just trolling Balam while drunk again to get a read out of him.

Balam is town, more town that Copper and Yos anyway.

[Balam]

(AGar)

YFC:

=======[]

Claim.

[Balam]

(AGar)

No, I don't think you understand.

You're claiming in your next post.

[Balam]

(AGar)

Helloooo softclaim.

[Balam]

(AGar)

Trying to build up to your fake-claim?

[Balam]

(AGar)

RayFrost is curious to the reasoning of your interest in Incognito's reactions, Yos.

[Balam]

(AGar)

Grab your ball sacks and lynch scum before they fakeclaim. I've done it many a time and it feels

so good.

No, that won't be happening. We wanted a claim, and we threatened to move without a claim in order to force a claim, not hammer away without care.

[Balam]

.... I am not amused with these hijinx.


Balam vote them already

they have specifically stated that they will not claim.

LET THEM DIE IN THIER SILENCE.

fes got away with this tactic TWICE IN A ROW. You gonna allow it again? you do and we end up on someone else whose obv town again you're scum. no way around it.

I'm thinking you're stalling.

I'm this close to killing my town read on you.

"Hammer without a claim or I'll think you're scum for not giving me what I want." Lolno. As yos said, you should try playing this game called mafia. It's loads of fun.

Yos, claim please.

[Balam]

So why did you target beaver over, say, pathetric? You could've easily protected your

strongest town read

rather than going half cock on the possibility of blocking the scum NK. I'm guessing you chose to go half cock on te possibility for a reason, but I'm at a loss as to your relative benefit vs reward from a town-perspective on the matter.

[Balam]

(AGar)

To echo that a bit and add some(Guessing it was RF, as he doesn't sign), you admitted yourself the BeaverWeasel slot (now ProfaneConfusion) was the only slot that had any kind of non-vanilla read on Pathetric in the open. So either you did not share a non-vanilla read with us (possible) or didn't have one. I think we can all agree that a lynch on Pathetric wasn't going to happen in a million years and thus she was a safe pick for a high priority target, so I'm still baffled as to why you didn't try and prevent the kill in that manner? Neither way is going to confirm a player as town, only just whether you chose to take a roleblocking aspect or a doctoring aspect of it.

[Balam]

(AGar)

Grab your ball sacks and lynch scum before they fakeclaim. I've done it many a time and it feels

so good.

No, that won't be happening. We wanted a claim, and we threatened to move without a claim in order to force a claim, not hammer away without care.

I think you're town, Balam, and I think I got as much information out of incog with this little game of brinksminship as I'm likely to, so if you still want me to claim, I will. I don't really think it'll accomplish much at this point, though.

Equinox felt a claim was a good idea being that you've spent so much time at this point in the spotlight that a claim and dead would make you a better asset to the town then a mystery and alive and, as such, a distraction.

[Balam]

^
|

(AGar)

Damn, I was on a good streak, too.

[Balam]

(AGar)

[AGM]

Cool claim, bro. Three things:

1) There was no town reason for stalling on that claim.
2) It's fake.
3) Die.

Lolno.

VOTE: Final Destination

With so much pushing against YFC, and no logic behind it, we're fairly confident that YFC is in fact town.

You might want to think about claiming FD. I'm sure there's someone here who will "grab their ball sacks and lynch scum before they fakeclaim," as you so kindly put it.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Pro-tip: AGar and I sign our posts. The Fate-town read was RayFrost.

YosFlavouredCayke's explanations for their night actions make logical sense. Both AGar and RayFrost strongly believe YosFlavouredCayke to be town from their reactions today and, presumably, from the reactions of others to their claim. I'm on the fence about YosFlavouredCayke's explanations, mainly because I've yet to find any relevant meta with regards to Yosarian2's stances about playing jailkeeper; however, I agree with AGar and RayFrost that some of the reactions to YosFlavouredCayke's claim -- namely, the initial dismissals from DaSpotthatkillsu and Final Destination without even engaging YosFlavouredCayke -- to be scummy. DaSpotthatkillsu's posting after that leads me to think they're just belligerent town, though.

Balam, do you think those posts you've pulled up makes Final Destination look scummy?

I did not like the backpedal, hence the little image. Fate claimed he was reaction testing with his drunken accusations, yet he still maintained a Balam-scum read when the drink should have worn off; that indicated to me that his read was genuine, despite RayFrost's and my reactions. Therefore, Final Destination's later assertion that their scum read on us was a "test" all along is BS. RayFrost reversed his read on Final Destination at that point, too.

Additionally, there's this:

(instead I was hoping a Balam suspicion would let me survive a NK, seeing as Yos' scum flip will make scum feel REAL THREATENED by my reads, and make town pull their head out of their ass (town in this case with head up its ass being solely limited to FES))

Fate does not play to avoid NKs. He strikes me as the kind of player who will post whatever is on his mind and then push his viewpoint on everyone else because that is the way he wins games. This comment, along with the drunk reaction testing issue I outlined above, stinks of backpedaling.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

There you go again, making bold statements about

MY

meta. How the fuck do you know how

I

play? Just because I kept up the "read" while sober doesn't mean it was any more genuine than when I was drunk. I will play to avoid NKs if it is the interest of my win con to do so.

Ahahaha. No.

I use personality tells. Bite me.

And what the fuck is this fluff even mean "calling crap to Yos' claim without engaging directly"

You engage YosFlavouredCayke up until they claim, and then it's "lol they fakeclaiming" without even trying to pick it apart. At least Mastermate and Profane Confusion questioned YosFlavouredCayke about their choices to discern their alignment.

OH HEY WAIT A MINUTE WHAT IS THIS:

1) There was no town reason for stalling on that claim.

[Balam]

(AGar)

I will play to avoid NKs if it is the interest of my win con to do so.

Funny, I was always under the impression that town players, regardless of how "godlike" their night actions may or may not be, are supposed to be playing as pro-town as possible, thus in a way that draws a night kill, in order to force scum to either play an amazingly town game or shore up real easily. In other words, it is never in the best interest of a town win condition to play to avoid night kills.

So are you now admitting to playing an intentionally sub-optimal game in order to facilitate your survival?

Sounds like a scum strategy to me.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Post 1262 makes perfect sense... Aughdsgnkfh.

Final Destination, AGar thinks you're softclaiming, so I'mma ask you point blank: Were you?

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Forgot this in 1269:

Unvote

ReaperCharlie's replace out made my case against Unicorn Brethren null. My point of contention was Unicorn Brethren strategically playing like a troll on a VI pass, but ReaperCharlie apologized for that behavior and then forcibly ejected the entire hydra from the game. That tells me it wasn't intentional alignment-related play, and replacing out of a game to fulfill a win condition is absurd. We haven't addressed Mastermate because there hasn't been a reason to do so.

At that point in the game you are mentioning, as I remember, all 3 of us were running individually because we weren't able to coordinate. We emphasized that they were individual reads because people were accusing us of flip-flopping when the truth was that the hydra was internally inconsistent, not flip-flopping; apparently, we haven't been clear enough in our distinction between "I" and "we" in our language in this game.

If it's called for, I am willing to go back and outline exactly how our reads went down, names and all. Won't do it on your word, though; we're town and I don't feel like negotiating.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Will you do me a favor, YosFlavouredCayke, and tell me where I can find posts where you've outlined strategies for playing the jailkeeper role?

With that said, its time for a BACKPEDAL OF A BACKPEDAL:

I KNOW, RIGHT, MOST AWESOME BACKPEDAL EVER.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

MINDSCREW INCOMING. PLEASE STAND BY FOR THE VOLCANIC EXPLOSION.

If at all possible I want Copper, Final Destination, and YosFlavouredCayke to stick around for a few more minutes because I want real-time interaction with you three. If anyone else logs in and sees this, having you pitch in as well would be awesome.

The reason for this request will very soon be apparent. I'm getting AGar to look over this now.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

All right, bitches. It's time.

I don't care how scummy this looks given the recent attacks against us for role fishing, but they are all true, and here is why:

We are a town role cop. We investigated YosFlavouredCayke on Night 1 and received the result of "roleblock and protect," indicating jailkeeper. We investigated Final Destination on Night 2 and received the result of "no abilities," indicating vanilla.

If you do not believe this claim, I urge you to go back in our iso. We outed YosFlavouredCayke's role in an effort to get them to crumb their targets to us, but apparently the song went woosh and we could not push this point further without claiming ourselves. We forced a claim out of them in part because their ignorance/dismissal of our rather blatant crumb-claim might have suggested scum avoiding locking themselves into a response; however, YosFlavouredCayke's responses since their claim led all 3 of us to think they were town.

We were fishing for Final Destination's claim because we found it hard to believe that Final Destination was playing a "dodge the NK" game as vanilla, and we were egging them to claim to see if they'd claim a power role. Instead, we got a bunch of softclaims. I wanted Final Destination to tell me outright if they were softclaiming, but with them turning on the jetpacks toward Balam-scum, getting a response now is unlikely, so here you are: We have claimed in your stead.

I stand by my "backpedal" based on Incognito's post 1262. AGar is still bothered by some of Final Destination's comments toward YosFlavouredCayke; I will let him handle those, since those are his thoughts.

This post is most likely going to heavily implicate us in some scum team or other. Our stances are what they are, and we are town.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Mafia jailkeepers exist.

RayFrost and I felt that the song lyric was obscure enough to likely get missed but would become plainly obvious when either we or YosFlavouredCayke claimed. In other words, it was the ideal crumb.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Luckily for you, Lord Fonzi, I've got just the thing:

Mini Normal, modded by Parama, where Tazaro the mafia jailkeeper was lynched on Day 1

(If anyone challenges how I so readily called this game, go to Tazaro's wiki page and look up the edit history.)

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Oh, come on. I expected at least some jaws to drop. We rushed into this without RayFrost's input because we wanted to hear from you lot in real-time, and instead you've all scurried away like a bunch of chickens. Thanks for helping me get a read on you; I love you all, too.

To address the posts from before the bomb:

I KNOW, RIGHT, IM JUST GOING TO BACK AWAY SLOWLY AFTER BEING CALLED OUT FOR THE SCUMMIEST ROLEFISHING THATS EVER FISHED AND SAY "LOL FD BACKPEDALED AGAIN <_< >_>

Actually, I was referring to my own backpedal on you as a point of irony, since I'd just accused you of doing the same.

He literally agrees with PC we are town, unvotes us off L-1, AND asks for our role all in one post.

Yes, the question did matter, regardless of my read of you based on Incognito's case. Now that I've posted a claim, my post there probably makes more sense, but I am going to reiterate anyway: We investigated you as vanilla, yet when you were posting in response to us, you were softclaiming by way of "I am dodging NKs because I'm playing to my win condition." Having you answer that question would have helped us get a more solid read on you as opposed to listening to someone unconfirmed make a defense for you.

---

Cutting this short since AGar has brought this to my attention:

We aren't Vanilla. We're a cop.

CONFIRMED SCUM. ALL SYSTEMS GO!

Vote: Final Destination

When we flip town, you're going to have

a lot

of fun tomorrow in LyLo. Looking forward to watching the jaws drop this time.

[Balam]

(AGar)

Actually, I hinted at your vanilla status since the start of the day. Starting with post 942 when I say your play has been all over the place. It's not consistent with a vanilla role, where one would be playing balls to the wall. Even before we tried to discern the softclaim, I already called you out for playing in a way to dodge a NK, because there's no reason for a VT to dodge a NK.

So better luck next time.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I am calling this now, based on my own individual reads. If AGar or RayFrost have any reads that conflict with mine, I encourage them to simply post in the thread; we are about to be confirmed anyway. If we get lynched over Final Destination today, it is extremely likely town will be in LyLo tomorrow, and that is the time to hear from as many town heads as possible.

{Final Destination, Copper, Profane Confusion}

Unless Lord Fonzi pulled an epic bussing gambit, it is unlikely that they are scum. I continue to have a personality-based town read on DaSpotthatkillsu, based on Kcdaspot's demeanor in two past scum games, even though his pushing occasionally makes me question myself. I lean town on Mastermate for their reaction to YosFlavouredCayke's claim. The strength of these reads go from Mastermate, Lord Fonzi, to DaSpotthatkillsu.

It goes without saying that I'm pretty sure YosFlavouredCayke is town now.

It's too bad we weren't town together, Incognito. I really was looking forward to scum hunting with you, but I guess we were meant to have a rematch. This time, there is no Coach Travis to subtly buddy to endgame, so good luck.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Making Unicorn Brethren green in your VCA is a pretty damn obvious crumb. "Dodging NKs," my ass.

I was thinking about how there should be a mafia roleblocker to counter the town role cop and probably town jailkeeper, and lo and behold:

ILL TAKE THAT TO MEAN YOURE A SCUM ROLEBLOCKER OR SOMESHIT, MIND CLAIMIN THAT IN THREAD>

HAHAHEEHEAHAHAHAA.

I regret that I won't get the chance to find that roleblocker, but I certainly bagged a scum... A win is a win.

Can't wait to see Greymarble's faces when we go see them again, bwahaha.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Anything to help the bus move along...

The role of the vanilla is to draw NKs away from power roles. I know Fate doesn't shy away from that; I have seen him get killed fairly early in games, and that is for his balls-to-the-wall style of play that we all know and love. If you play to survive as vanilla, you are doing it wrong.

Any disagreements so far? Good.

I will play to avoid NKs if it is the interest of my win con to do so.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I just remembered I forgot Frogito Ergo Sum entirely. That should sum up my view of that slot.

It's apparent now that we have a scum team that does not like to bus too hard. I am actually unfamiliar with Cogito Ergo Sum's and Shanba's meta in this regard, so I can't say anything about them. What I will say, though, is that my earlier analysis of their wagon leading to my belief that they were not scum isn't as strong as I'd initially thought.

tl;dr: Null, leaning ever so slightly town due to my strong belief that Copper and Profane Confusion are scum.

Your point is moot at best, Balam, since he's not claiming to be vanilla. It does make sense for a cop to lie low.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Profane Confusion wanted to know where they were softclaiming a power role, which led us to fish for a claim from Final Destination.

I'm now pondering a conspiracy theory by which scum Balam claims to cause a Fate lynch, in the knowledge that after a Fate town flip, Balam will die himself, but Yos as town would be so closely tied to him that scum were pretty much nailed-on to win anyway.

If only I were scum! I'd love to pull that sort of gambit.

As Incog said, I believe FD over Balam. However, I think we should lynch YFC today - I don't see the reason for scumBalam to pull that for a townYFC, so I think they have the same alignment. It's better to get rid of a roleblocker than an unknown mafia power role here because then scum are forced to either kill FD (deciding tomorrow's lynch for us) or let him investigate (giving us another night's results should he flip town).

Final Destination should have just claimed vanilla and let this whole thing die because we'd have left them alone, and Profane Confusion wouldn't have had to out themselves. If you're going to bus,

bus

.

Posting on here because smarg is on PC...

Two people can be logged in at the same time. RayFrost and I were simulposting with you that one night.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

leaving himself as confirmed scum if I die and flip anything other then bus driver, is pretty absurd

...what?

[Balam]

(AGar)

And no I'm not claiming. It's going to take a final scum bag (Copper) coming out of the bushes and pushing for my lynch before I cave to this bullshit, ESPECIALLY when Yos scum is in our sights.

This is a soft-claim in my eyes.

---

Dear FailedDesparation,

In your so convenient breadcrumb, you forgot one thing - you only list Unicorn as town in two votecounts. Out of 7.

- AGar

---

As Incog said, I believe FD over Balam. However, I think we should lynch YFC today - I don't see the reason for scumBalam to pull that for a townYFC, so I think they have the same alignment. It's better to get rid of a roleblocker than an unknown mafia power role here because then scum are forced to either kill FD (deciding tomorrow's lynch for us) or let him investigate (giving us another night's results should he flip town).

Oooh, sorry.

This is what we call a really bad scumpost.

We're in a 1:1 right now. FD is lying. Or we're lying.

The lynches are between us right now.

You can't choose YFC.

[Balam]

(AGar)

Also, FD, in your VCA, why is Kcda not shown as green at all? Since they were your N1 investigation?

[Balam]

(Equinox)

In your so convenient breadcrumb, you forgot one thing - you only list Unicorn as town in two votecounts. Out of 7.

Wait. This means that Final Destination didn't plan out their DaSpotthatkillsu investigation target until just now.

I've been doing some thinking about how they've been playing in a rock hard tunnel for a significant portion of the game without even trying to look at other possibilities. Could Kcdaspot have suddenly gotten cocksure about YosFlavouredCayke and decided to target them to exclusion? It's possible. However, there's another possibility I'm toying with here.

RayFrost and I have been giving them a pass because Kcdaspot has been a nervous, twitching mess in the past two (newbie) games we've seen him play scum. It would also make sense for scum to ramp up their confidence and belligerence to mask their nervousness playing scum, and we'd indicated very early in the game that we were going to pass them on a personality-based read. DaSpotthatkillsu's behavior thus far is easy to fake, like Final Destination's rage posting.

Kill the following: Profane Confusion, Copper, DaSpotthatkillsu, Frogito Ergo Sum

There are two scum in there, for sure. I am betting good money on Profane Confusion flipping scum. Now, here's another problem: Profane Confusion is playing so ridiculously scummy that it's likely they are setting themselves up for a fall. If that is indeed what they are doing, there is a scumbag nobody is suspecting right now and can survive to LyLo and win the game for the team.

That person might actually be DaSpotthatkillsu.

Lynch the Incognito hydra first, though.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Post 1235 was a group effort, by the way.

Random thought: Once Fate is lynched and flips scum, you're a confirmed town info role and the obvious scum target, Balam. I wonder if I could prevent your nightkill by announcing, in thread, that I'm going to flip a coin; if it comes up heads, I target balam, if it comes up tails, I don't. Scum logically should not take a 50/50 chance on failing a kill, especially in the very tight position they'll be in tommorow.

*cackle*

I would like your reasoning on why you suspected YossarianFlavoredCayke could be scum.

It was for the same line of questioning that Profane Confusion pursued YosFlavouredCayke earlier today: For a jailkeeper so certain of a town read on Pathetric, they let Pathetric die. There was some disagreement between us since it was highly unlikely for YosFlavouredCayke to kill off as strong an ally as Pathetric and that, given BeaverWeasel's musing about a possible masonry, YosFlavouredCayke could have gotten away with letting Pathetric live for a while because there were others (i.e., me) who thought the same thing and would have given YosFlavouredCayke a pass.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Because we never actually put any thought into setup speculation. Silly but true. We saw YosFlavouredCayke act scummy, and we saw the PM that stated their abilities. We put two and two together and came up with mafia jailkeeper.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Incognito, that would be because I only very recently got a scum read on you. The tipping point was smargaret's attempt to push the lynch off the Balam and Final Destination dichotomy -- a surefire 1:1 -- onto YosFlavouredCayke, a slot that is certainly a lot more questionable than either us or Final Destination, even if they are, in my eyes, as good as confirmed town. Town benefits from this lynch regardless of who dies, but lynching outside of the leading pair could prove detrimental should that outside lynch hit town. That is scum motivation.

We chose YosFlavouredCayke on Night 1 because I had a mason read on them, and I wanted to confirm that. My reasoning was that I could potentially clear two town players in one night, and both would have been great players to follow.

We chose Final Destination on Night 2 because of their U-curve play. At first they were actively hunting in the thread, and then when they weren't getting their way with Frogito Ergo Sum, Fate pouted and the activity decreased up until we pushed the GummyBear flash wagon. If they were a power role, their lying low would have made sense as town play; otherwise, there wasn't a reason for them to play that way.

It's funny. I was glad that coincidence occurred today because it gave us the opportunity to claim fish.

It doesn't strike me as impossible, in a one-scumteam game with a rolecop, that the mod would have given the scum a JK with the protective ability being redundant, to protect said role from the rolecop.

YosFlavouredCayke's ability is specifically protection and roleblocking. They're not an alien.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I didn't say anything about an alien. I said that the lack of a second killing group suggests, but does not confirm, that the role is in town hands, since there could be a scum JK so that the rolecop doesn't go 'Roleblocker derp lynch."

Ah. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

Wait, if that's true, why did you not support the wagon out of the gate?

From what I'm seeing in the QuickTopic as of the start of Day 3:

• AGar suspected a {Final Destination, YosFlavouredCayke} pairing, and he and RayFrost had had a discussion about it.
• Equinox was behind in the thread and could not offer input with regards to Final Destination or YosFlavouredCayke.
• RayFrost saw Unicorn Brethren leaving Balam out of Greymarble's list of suspects and thought they were scum deliberately building connections to us.
• I'd raged earlier about Unicorn Brethren being possibly scum due to something ReaperCharlie posted about the hydra, and my rage still held as of the start of the day.

tl;dr: I'm not sure. That's what happened in the QuickTopic; you have what happened in the thread. If my memory serves me correctly, we didn't post (or at least anything substantial) and then we decided we were lynching Unicorn Brethren instead.

Well, I'll let smargaret respond on her own behalf their but looking at my QT she said something to the effect of (paraphrasing) 'there's no scum motivation for scum-Balam to clear town-YFC'. I'm assuming she was thinking along the lines of Yos potentially being a scum JK and since you're claiming rolecop, you'd have no real idea about what alignment Yos actually is should your claim be true.

So, instead of lynching one of the two cops, she wants to lynch the "potential mafia jailkeeper" instead? lolnoscum.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Eh, I went back and looked. Our first post of Day 3 was post 942; AGar FoSed Final Destination but wanted to lynch Unicorn Brethren first.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

If we are lying, DaSpotthatkillsu, where is your vote?

{DaSpotthatkillsu, Final Destination, Profane Confusion}

Good game, town.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

AND ALL HE CAN DO IS ROLLOVER AND DIE, THERES NO WAY HE CAN COME UP WITH A "HURR DURR FATE COUNTER CLAIMED ME AS SCUM DAY BEFORE LYLO FOR KIX" EXCUSE OR ANYTHING.

That would be because we don't have to fight our own lynch. I know that once we die and flip town, you're next, and I have confidence in a town with this level of competency to lynch your two painfully obvious buddies. I don't have much to lose. You, on the other hand, are about to lose a heck of a lot.

Final Destination has no moves left!
Final Destination uses STRUGGLE!
Final Destination is hit with recoil!

Final Destination has fainted!

Well, this might not come for a couple of rounds.

I'm not so sure about Spot. There was this weird thing Incognito's been doing all day, where I attack Fate, and he then questions me about why I'm attacking Fate and Spot. I got the vibe that Incog was trying to defend one town and one scum at the same time, to try to make the links a little less obvious. Plus, I don't know if Fate would declare one of his buddies town at at time like this.

Hmm... Fate's capable of anything, but you do have a point about Incognito. It's just that DaSpotthatkillsu's reaction right now spelled out "S-C-U-M" in capital letters and flashy lights.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Balam, since no one's asked you for god knows what reasons and I didnt ask because you're scum and I don't give much of a fuck: Why'd you target who you targeted? AWFULLY CONVIENENT night actions, they almost line up PERFECTLY with today's situation.

Asked and answered. Don't get so worked up, scum; I know you need to shitpost to make sure town doesn't see the pure survivalist mentality oozing from every pore of you, but you still need to read the thread.

hang on they investigated you.

they KNEW that.

why did they wait for you to claim to confirm your role? why did they press for your role?


NOT BUYING IT.

FD's claim came WAY too soon to be fake. immediately (or as soon as he saw the post), w/o his partner here AGM claimed cop.

I don't think he's bullshitting.

doubt? READ DGB'S SIG.
IT TOOK YOU 2 DAYS TO COME UP WITH JAILKEEP AND BALAM TO BACK YOU. TWO DAYS. IT TOOK MINUTES FOR AGM TO CLAIM.

Been reading this post and DaSpotthatkillsu-town reacting in this manner still doesn't make sense, YosFlavouredCayke. I mean, this is piss poor logic. It misses entirely the purpose of a gambit and the extreme ease with which scum can claim a role. Town... can't... not possible.

[Balam]

(AGar)

On the other hand, I don't see any reason for Balam to fakeclaim there. It's also consistant with the way he was demanding I claim or die on the spot, hestiated when I hinted I was a power role, and then dropped it completly when I claimed jailkeeper.

hang on they investigated you.

they KNEW that.

why did they wait for you to claim to confirm your role? why did they press for your role?


NOT BUYING IT.

FD's claim came WAY too soon to be fake. immediately (or as soon as he saw the post), w/o his partner here AGM claimed cop.

We pressed YFC to see if his claim was what it should have been. If he had claimed anything other than JK, I would've dropped a 10 ton hammer on his head and that would've been that. We had literally agreed to hammer, stop posting and claim tomorrow with our remaining results out of the gate.

We pressed FD because we figured he'd do exactly as happened - fake claim a power role that doesn't match up with our rolecop investigation.

It's like we were trying to match things up or something.

[Balam]

(AGar)

Hey FD,

You still haven't addressed that DaSpot isn't green in any of your VCAs and Unitard only got green in 2/7. You might want to take some time from flailing and threadshitting in order to, you know, actually answer the questions that are being posed.

-AGar

[Balam]

THERE. WAS. NO. TOWN. MOTIVE. IN. BLOCKING. US.

These look like good town motive:

Btw: reason # 174 why we need to lynch DaSpot today:

I know of VERY few roles for which not claiming at L-1 with the pressure still on like this would be actually pro-town. Spit it out, man. A claim is THE ONLY WAY (barring investigations by other players) I will ever believe FES is town.

Can we please just kill this scum?

That being said, YossarianFlavouredCayke's idea that daSpot is scumbuddies with SVT is similarly silly.

Have you ever seen a scumbuddy blatantly lie to defend a buddy like that? You don't defend such a failure of a slot with such vehemence unless you're absolutely sure you'll be vindicated by a townflip - say, if you're scum and they're not on your team.

You're missing all the context here.

For a long time, DaSpot was trying to discourage a Beaver lynch in relitivly subtle ways, like attacking me for going after what he called an "easy wagon". I pointed out that he seemed to be trying to prevent a beaver lynch, and first he blew me off; I continued, and he attacked me in order to try to avoid answering my questions, and he only finally admitted that he was defending Beaver when I pinned him to the wall on the subject and didn't let up. That was when he had to invent a justification for his defense of Beaver, and, as you pointed out, it was quite bad. But I don't think DaSpot wanted to be seen to be defending Beaver; it looks like he was hoping to kill the Beaver wagon without anyone noticing he was doing it, and only tried to invent a pro-town justification for his defense of Beaver when he didn't have any other way out.

@ YFC
Not to mention that your defense of FES is so lame, you have to resort to using the word "obvious" about 4 times. Your entire defense boils down to "he's obviously town". Just as I suspected, you have proven yourself a scumbuddy of FES. Now to find the 3rd scum.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHY IS THIS SCUM STILL ALIVE?

Anyone? I really want to know here how anyone could possibly have any doubt about Spot's alignment at this point. He asks for me to explain my read, and then he ignores the entire thing, except to claim that the word obvious is a scumtell, which is the most idiotic argument I've ever heard in a mafia game. There is zero chance that this guy is town who's trying to find out the truth here; he's apparently not even reading the answers to questions that he asks at this point.

-Yos

Damn this hydra stuff.

YosFlavouredCayke

: Who's town?

FES is by far the most clearly pro-town person in this game. I can't believe you just ignored everything I said and voted for him anyway.

Lord Fonzi is probably town.

Unicorn Brethren is stlll probably town, although frustrating. Fritzler trying to hammer whenever given the chance (if that was him) is null for him.

I guess I'm going to have to say greymarble is likely town, although I hate his play today.

Copper is null-ish. Much of his posting is good, but I dislike the way he tried to force FES off of his FD vote on the grounds that "FD won't be lynched today". Not because Copper thought FD was scum, not because it wasn't a logical vote; just because Copper didn;t think FD was going to be lynched. Considering how early in the day this way, and how much stuff can happen, I dislike this justification; there's nothing wrong with sticking with your #1 suspect for a while early in the day, and there's really no way of predicting that early in the day that someone absolutly won't be lynched. The way FES stood up to this pressure, kept his vote where he thought it was best, and let Copper put him at lynch -2 rather then give into the pressure and join the Beaver wagon, join the votes on me, or join some other wagon, is behavior that I basically consider 100% proof of pro-town motive on the part of FES.

I'm going to have to say I'm null on you right now. The biggest thing in your favor right now is that I don't think you're likely to be scum with Beaver, i don't think you're likely to be scum with Spot, and I don't think you're likely to be scum with Gummy; as it is, while I'm not a fan of a lot of your posts, I have trouble coming up with a plasuable scumgroup that could include you in it.

I'm going to be generous and call FD null for now. He was incredibly scummy, then he briefly made some posts that seemed kind of town-ish, now he's at best a quasi-lurker. (not actually a lurker, but when he posts, it has next to no content).

Like i said, currently leaning scum on gummybear. they seemed kind of null-townish day 1, but their posting today has been aweful.

Spot and Beaver are still my two top lynch choices.

It's called a scumread, and if he felt you might send a kill, that's plenty reason in anyone's book to block someone.

Considering Yos didn't block you N1, I'm not sure why you decided to rush and botch your fake-claim here, though.

[Balam]

^
|

(AGar)

[FD you fucks, answer my questions]

[Balam]

(Equinox)

What the shit? DaSpotthatkillsu, why the fuck did you claim? We had confirmed scum between Balam and Final Destination; we were going to find out whether or not YosFlavouredCayke was scum from today's choice of the top leading wagons. That was just fucking stupid.

YOU DO REALIZE YOU WERE YOSFLAVOUREDCAYKE'S TOP SUSPECT GOING INTO NIGHT TWO, RIGHT?

:headdesk: :headdesk: :headdesk:

Yeah, I think they're town now; the manner of their claim matches their reaction to ours, which is the use of utterly fail logic to support a ridiculous tunnel that could have been alternatively explained.

{Copper, Final Destination, Profane Confusion}

We are not lynching outside of Balam and Final Destination. Yes, folks, your options today really are limited to just us two, now get on it. LYNCHING OUTSIDE OF THIS PAIR IS NOW A SCUM TELL. Don't be chicken, scumbags.

[Balam]

(AGar)

I can't wait to see you have to eat your fucking words.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Balam: just fuck off.

YOU'RE NEXT.,

JUST
SHUT
UP

NO, YOU ARE GOING TO LYNCH US TODAY SO WE CAN LAUGH AT ALL THE EGG ON YOUR FACE, YOU DERP.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I'm plenty of confident that you are a RB. WHY? I'm willing to believe that you DID use your actions on who you said you did... AND THAT IS WHAT I BELIEVE IS YOUR END ALL BE ALL SCUM CLAIM.

IF YOU BELIEVE THAT I AM LYING ABOUT MY ROLE CLAIM FOR YOSFLAVOUREDCAYKE, YOU SHOULD BE VOTING BALAM RIGHT NOW, NOT YOSFLAVOUREDCAYKE.

DON'T BE FUCKING STUPID. LYNCH US NOW, AND IF WE FLIP SCUM AS YOU SAY, YOU CAN LYNCH THE CAKE. ANY OTHER PLAY IS UNACCEPTABLE.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

DaSpotthatkillsu, you should read what I am saying before accusing me of not reading what you're saying. You are claiming that YosFlavouredCayke is a roleblocker. I am outright telling you that you are accusing us of lying and should therefore be lynching us.

Final Destination calculated the numbers. You may be able to swing the wagon onto us if you so strongly believe us to be scum, and the only way we can be scum is with YosFlavouredCayke. Our alignments are tied together here.

Put your vote on Balam. Now.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Except I am not scum, and you will find this out either today or tomorrow. Forget the cake. Your focus today should be on us or Final Destination. DaSpotthatkillsu can go sit in the corner and balk at their own foolishness once Final Destination flips mafia or once Balam flips town role cop.

Balam or Final Destination is quite literally a coin flip. IT IS CONFIRMED, WRITTEN IN THE STARS EVEN, THAT ONE OF US IS SCUM.

Just pick one, guys, it's not fucking hard.

I will rage at every member of this godforsaken town if a lynch occurs outside of this pair.

[Balam]

...

...............

...................................................

Sorry, was busy punching a wall. Seriously, kcda? SERIOUSLY? That claim was

absolutely pointless

. It di

nothing

for you. All you i was reveal your role pointlessly if you are town (which I believe you are). Your information precisely matches the claims so far, making your claim

a negative return for the town

. Seriously dude, get your shit together. You actually did pretty well when you were playing in our one game together, but that... that was just terrible. I am saddened by you. Very saddened.

Movig on: I believe that someone asked for the

supremely amazingly obviously there breadcrumb that YFC completely ignored

. Well... for those of you familiar with the big rock candy mountains. Double up, double up, oh yeah.

I know, I know, such a completely subtle and obscure inside breadcrumb that

nobody could possibly realize is a breadcrumb

. Almost as obscure as randomly coloring someone green in a VC and not coloring someone else while claiming it's a breadcrumb of having investigations on both of the people, amirite.

I like how daspot's like "FATE CLAIMED MINUTES AFTER, SO HE MUST HAVE HAD IT IN MIND" when this applies to fate-scum or fate-town. Fate-scum "breadcrumbing" cop earlier in the game makes his idea that fate came up with it instantly is untrue. Fate-town "breadcrumbing" cop is the same. His idea here of "lolfatecameupwithitwithinacoupleminutessoheclearlyisn'tscum" is about as shitty as a suburban sewage system.

I find fate going "BALAM CAME UP WITH TEH FAKECLAIM AND IT WAS PLANNED IN THEIR MAFIA QT, THAT IS WHY BALAM CRUMBED THIS GAME DAY: THEY ALL KNEW THAT YFC WOULD COME UNDER SUSPICION" to be kinda funny. His posting just makes me laugh at this point, it's not even remotely close to contentful. It's a whole lot of "U LIE" without showing real evidence other than "CUZ I R SAIYAN SO" - oh, and a tid bit of "orly" on top of that.

Fate claiming to have investigated daspot and UB: why didn't he investigate "obv scum," hmmm? The cop's goal is to find teh scumz. YFC wasn't exactly easy for him to pin own for everyone, so investigating or looking for his partner is more optimal play. I find the fact incog isn't discussing the optimality of FD's play but is pushing at YFC for "sub-optimal" play to be suspect. What's with the double standard?

daspot needs to chill the fuck out and smoke weed for an hour... or something. Disclaimer: I am not endorsing the illegal use of substances or the abuse of illegal substances.

P-edit: everything from 1387 to present is not include in the post here.

[Balam]

scum going for a perfect game.

definately.

BUT WHO THE FUX SCUM?

Lemme make this as simple and easy for you as possible, as I can tell you're frustrated.

You have confirmed YFC as, at minimum, a blocking role. We (balam) have confirmed fate as scum or ourselves as scum. One of us must be scum while YFC is not guaranteed to be anything whatsoever. With YFC, you are taking a less certain and secure route. If you truly believe YFC to be scum, then at minimum we are still going to be scum if fate is town.

The key thing for you to consider is whether fate is scum or balam is scum. Analyze the play of the two slots and decide for yourself which benefits scum more.

I can give my biased summary of fate's play with the following:

> Actively backs off on people when they no longer suspect him - scum motivation here, no town motivation

> Screams a lot but provides minimal content when attacking people (balam, current) - see above

> In his "drunk" attack on us he claims complete certain, then says "well, it wasn't really certain" when we say we think he's town (well, I say it...) and then goes "it was not certain at all, it was just a trick!" when pressured about his actions - Why would town remove themselves from their initial action in this manner? Fate-town in the game I linked drunk pressured me to avoid a NK, but there is no such motivation here because he has someone he thinks is scum. Why would he side-track with a random drunken reaction fish on someone he claimed afterward to have a town read on? It's pointless save to try and force the person to back down. The consistency in which fate's tried to argue everyone down from attacking him is indicative of scum.

> Fate's trying to skew our "role fishing" as somehow setting up for a role cop fakeclaim. Our actions here are consistent: we pushed YFC for a claim, we pushed FD for a claim. Unless he wants to claim that YFC is also town, there is no indication of role fishing to help us with our "fakeclaim."

I'd also like to comment re: the stuff about YFC's claim. YFC targeted you, you were a strong scumread, this is perfectly natural play. You should think before you go "ZOMFG NO PRO-TOWN PERSON WOULD TARGET ME" - we can't read the mod's mind to know whether you're town or scum, so yeah. Re "why didn't you protect teh ethar": hindsight is 20/20. We know

now

that ether wasn't a PR and was going to be killed by the maf, but that was information left unknown at the time yos was making the decision. You're acting like yos should've been able to see the future.

Yos' claim checks out with logic, aside from the fact it's confirmed from the role cop'ing.

P-edit: we are confirmed as rolecop to yos, but not to anybody else, to clear things up. You obviously dunno if we're scum with yos and we set this up or not, but... yeah.

[Balam]

He's saying that because he breadcrumbed he knew Yos' role that he's "confirmed' as a role-cop.

Just like you're saying that because you "breadcrumbed" an innocent on someone (without really breadcrumbing at all but whatevs) that you are "confirme" as a cop.

[Balam]

Awww, but we had so much fun playing THAT debate on YFC's claim, which so obv obv confirmed him as scum! Why shouldn't we play the same game with you?

i'm 22 and have only 6-8 months playing this game

and i srsly do not know what the fuck is going on...

I'm 16 and have nearly 2 years playing this game.

And I srsly know what the fuck is going on.

I can break it down even simpler than I did above:

One of balam / final destination = scum. This is guaranteed 100% fact.

If you are town aligned, it is your duty to figure out which of us is the scum. (pro-tip: it's FD) If you're scum, it is your duty to vote the one who you know is town while trying to look good doing it.

Capiche?

[Balam]

hmm... i've played idiot town the ENTIRE game...

and now..... this is really the tipping point...my vote could turn this........

UNVOTE:
yoscayke isn't off the hook... BUT I WOULD REALLY LIKE QT TO WAKE UP.

A bit, yes, but it's not too late to put on your thinking cap.

Quite.

Very good, though I doubt you'll get help from your QT-mate.

If you'd like, I can quote you to my numerous "play bettar" posts towards townies in newbie games. I even have one that I posted to equinox in stock. I list so many different key points in them.... (I'd have to trawl through my wiki, so please don't actually ask me to do this).

Here's the breakdown, though. You know for a fact that one of final destination / balam is lying scum because their claims can't possibly coincide. It is your duty to look at their play and figure out which you think is more likely to be town.

Things you need to look at: behavior surrounding wagons (is the person hyper-aggressive, do they provide good reasoning, if they disagree with it do they have valid reasons, etc), behavior surrounding their claimed suspicions (do they back off it without explanation, do they provide solid logic, is the target convenient, do they actually follow through, do they push with content or do they just provide fluff posts about stuff), the relative amount of content versus fluff that does absolutely fuck all besides looking like something, the relative quantities of paying attention to the entire game and not just going balls deep into a single thing and using it as an excuse to avoid commenting on anything else, the level of reactionary play, etc.

Hope this helps you come to a good decision. The key thing here is to

think

. Do not rush your decision, think everything through, write down your thoughts as you read, revise them as new things come up, and look at your polished thoughts as they form. Do not try to do this off of memory. You

will

need to re-read this game at least partially to get a good idea.

[Balam]

Alternatively, you could skip all the hard stuff and learn how to be psychic. Then you could read my mind and see I'm fucking awesome and, as a result, obv town. T'would make it easier, but there's no pressure to do that. I hear telepathy is one of the harder skills to learn, after all... (took me a couple years, myself).

Alternatively alternatively, you could just vote FD for an easy scum lynch, but that'd be taking me for my word. I know I'm awesome, but that's a bit much. I recommend taking the advice I gave you earlier.

[Balam]

All unsigned posts are RayFrostian, in case you people haven't figured that out.

Balam...

as said...

Shut up.

See, I'm trying very hard here to not explode on you for your play so far. I handle my immense frustrations by trying to teach you something. Read it, learn it. What I've said will help you in your games. Mafia is about how you flexibly think about and deal with variable situations, not about rigid concepts. The approach can often mean more than the actual action, and what you focus on when you're analyzing things can mean a world of difference in your accuracy.

Kcda, I'm not going to shut up until I think you actually understand what I'm trying to say here. I'm not even trying to do something related to this game: I'm trying to give you a guide to improving your play as a whole. Forgive me if I'm overstepping my bounds in doing so, but I'd prefer it if you asked me to stop politely rather than being rude. I've got a lot less patience than I might seem with how I'm handling your play this game.

[Balam]

That's nice and all, but where did all the analysis go? We don't have to drop all thoughts to twiddle our thumbs while kcda gets a response from the mod.

Scumhunting everywhere in this bitch. Now.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I've always thought role cop was more of a scum role.

Copper, there have been four* power role claims; you've left out Final Destination's cop counterclaim. I'm not sure what you mean by "we can plan this lynch out a little better"; it's a case of one cop counterclaiming the other, so any movement to lynch outside of the cop pair is silly and potentially very damaging to town.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

let me sleep on this...

You cannot push a YosFlavouredCayke lynch:

Balam claimed role cop with a jailkeeper result on YosFlavouredCayke on Night 1 and

vanilla result on Final Destination Night 2.
Final Destination counterclaimed alignment cop

with an innocent result on DaSpotthatkillsu on Night 1 and innocent result on Unicorn Brethren on Night 2.

One of us is lying, and in this instance lying is a 100% scum tell.

Additionally, when either Balam or Final Destination get lynched, YosFlavouredCayke's alignment and role will become crystal clear. You want that flip? You might as well cooperate.

---

I really can't believe Spot is scum here. There's no advantage to the scum team in having their third member suicide now that Fate and PC have been caught. I don't think he could be that foolish. Something is going on here.

On the other hand, I don't think the scum predicted that something like this would happen. They prepared for a possible cop investigation, which is why Final Destination had crumbs lined up for an alignment cop claim, but today has drawn so many connections that we have essentially cleared half of the living players. That could have pushed scum into panic mode. I can see Kcdaspot-scum impulsively claiming in an effort to WIFOM himself out of being lynched or to get you lynched. You getting lynched today puts town in a worse position coming into LyLo than the scenario where either of the cops get lynched.

The reason I have this doubt is we have Kcdaspot on record saying:

That is odd.. he said no result TO BOTH and then revised it to "no visit"

TheButtonmen should be aware that these two things are drastically different, especially in a game with a jailkeeper and possibly a roleblocker. If we are looking at a moderator error, we'll have to sort out whether or not TheButtonmen is the type of moderator who would retroactively fix something like this; the fix pretty much outs information about a closed setup. (Yeah, modWIFOM sucks.)

I don't think you were targeted by a roleblocker, YosFlavouredCayke; DaSpotthatkillsu's results match your claimed actions, so that's not what's going on here.

there is no difference in text if either i was blocked or not...

This then begs the question: If there is no difference, why did TheButtonmen feel the need to go back send revised PMs?

In addition, assuming both DaSpot and YosFlavouredCayke are telling the truth about their roles, I'm pretty sure we can coordinate their Night actions much better right here right now in order to get the most information from them as possible especially if the correct scum is lynched Today.

Surprisingly enough, I actually agree with Incognito here. What I recommend, though, is that you don't start going into tunnels of "Assuming XXX is scum" because if you are wrong, you will be screwed. Have a contingency plan.

I'd prefer it if the slots not in question worked on this: Frogito Ergo Sum, Lord Fonzi, and Mastermate. At the very least, these three and YosFlavouredCayke should set up a town alliance. Including Balam and Final Destination would merely introduce distractions and a lot of shitposting.

We have three informational roles going into Night 3 (2 if Balam gets lynched, but etc.), so we will have at least something if we work it out right.

---

Right now I'm not so sure of either of the two scum teams I proposed, given Kcdaspot's claim. What I do know, however, is that we're 3 for 4 in {Copper, DaSpotthatkillsu, Final Destination, Profane Confusion}, which is pretty damn good odds.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Copper, you were doing so well by lying low before...

Yeah, DaSpotthatkillsu is town. The moon is rising on three confirmed town power roles and three probable town by process-of-elimination; the scum are now quaking in their respective QuickTopics.

How about we lynch SCUM so we don't have our heads up our ass at LyLo 4:3, which scum are ALWAYS favored in?

Fear mongering doesn't work when the situation wouldn't exactly be 4:3 LyLo.

Preview edit:

Dance, dance for my entertainment! DANCE!

[Balam]

(Equinox)

You don't seem to have any buddies.

Sure they do!



You three make a good team.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

That was too long. I read it anyway.

You're still dead scum walking. Nice try, though. A+ for effort.

This was pushing the boundaries of site rules a bit, because it was clear he was implying that he was pissed at my drunk posting in THIS GAME, but nonetheless my read on Balam was altered.

Final Destination, if this AIM conversation with RayFrost occurred after your drunkposting in this game, you should be pushing for our modkill, not just our lynch, because that is a clear case of using out-of-game influence.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Nobody lay down any L-1 or hammer votes until RayFrost comes in here, please. I'm miffed that Final Destination would even

think

of attacking his honor in that manner, but I think it'd be better if you heard that from RayFrost rather than from me.

DaSpotthatkillsu, don't be discouraged. Final Destination is on their last legs and are trying their hardest to get us lynched instead; their vanilla claim is to ensure that when we flip town role cop, they are not immediately suspect and have time to bus their buddy Copper to get back into town's good graces.