Newbie 1072 - Game Over!

[Twistedspoon]

Hey, guys, I'm Twistedspoon. Charlie's the IC here, and we also have 2 SEs. You can ask them any questions, but I don't mind answering too since I'm on everyday.
Trying to post frequently is a good thing and you probably won't get prodded that way too.

Looks like you guys are all new players to me, so nice to meet you all. =D
Let's have the best newbie game ever here.

EBWOP: HI FARMER! Looks like you're here too
Here's to another good game with you :3

Serious time now:

GXW, your post is scummy in that it completely denies the point of the RVS. You're supposed to start a wagon going by placing a vote on one of the players. If the player is (bad)scum then they should react badly to it and crack under the pressure.
Double RVS-ing tends to be a solid scumtell, since there's no point to it. You RVS for pressure - why would you destroy reasonless pressure on one person to push reasonless pressure on another?

And in your case it's 9 times worse :p

HoS: gxw

I'm not voting for you yet because it is a newbie game, and I remember in my first newbie game I too made a very scummish first post, and I turned out to be town (Isn't that right Farmer )

However, I'm HoSing you because of the reasons above, despite it being a newbie game. You need to explain to us like Charlie said.

That being said, let's all remember to enjoy the game and take it in good spirits.
~Twistedspoon

P.s. HoS, means hand of suspicion in case you didn't know. It is also known as FoS, Finger of Suspicion. Both are really the same thing though. I prefer hands to fingers though.

[Twistedspoon]

EBWOP:

Forgot to bold my HoS

HoS:GXW for above reasons

That's better :3

[Twistedspoon]

Twisted, Charlie:

What's so scummy about the rapid voting/unvoting in RVS? (Random Voting Stage).

Double RVS-ing tends to be a solid scumtell, since there's no point to it. You RVS for pressure - why would you destroy reasonless pressure on one person to push reasonless pressure on another?

this.
and i didn't just make that up.

[Twistedspoon]

TS:

I agree with the premise that if you overvote, your vote loses pressure. This is a very town thing to say. GXW has one point, tho', out of the two reactions this illicted, you were the only vote (Charlie was a HoS) and GXW voted you, which makes this look like an OMGUS of sorts, even if the reasons were slightly scummy. I give you a nulltell.

you've got it all wrong mate

If you look back, I was the one who HoS'd him.

I Never voted, so it cannot be an omgus

besides, I picked up upon something scummy. That makes me scum? GXW is overreacting to my HoS and that's just silly. This isn't an OMGUS. It's another observation of a scumtell.

Vote:GXW

[Twistedspoon]

First up, I've got to let everyone know that my timezome is +8GMT. After about a year of playing here, I realize that the majority of players are around -5GMT-ish.

GMT for me. Yep, I'm English.

@Twistedspoon: Seems like it is not your first game here, do you mind telling how much experience of Mafia do you have?

Sure, I have no problem. Heck, It's even on my wiki page.

Newbie 1050
Open 283 - Masons and Monks
Mini 1130 - A Fishbowl Invasion by Ninja Monkeys!
Execution Mafia

a few here for you

To Twisted and Charlie:

I did the multiple votes thing in order to gauge reaction or lack thereof to it. Clearly I had some interesting results.

[/quote]
Care to share?

The only results I saw was myself commenting on what was a scummish way of voting and then being accused by you becuase I FoS'd you.

FoS'ing isn't a scumtell, but Double RVS voting is. In fact a similar situation is happening in my mini normal games, and that player seems almost certain scum (that's not to say you are though).

You just seem a little confused though as to what is and isn't scummish and that, despite being anti-town, isn't always mafia, so I'll unvote for now.

Unvote

Dazzy's quickness at jumping on the fastest wagon is interesting, although this might not actually be a scumtell since there was only one on the wagon so far, and Daz seemed to justify his vote, something which mafia would find harder to do since they usually don't care which townie dies on day1 .

@Farmer: Lol. But I hope you're not scum either eh? how do i know?

TS:

I agree with the premise that if you overvote, your vote loses pressure. This is a very town thing to say. GXW has one point, tho', out of the two reactions this illicted, you were the only vote (Charlie was a HoS) and GXW voted you, which makes this look like an OMGUS of sorts, even if the reasons were slightly scummy. I give you a nulltell.

1) I didn't vote him. your facts are wrong. I was the HoS
2)Explain how my reasons were scummy. They've worked well in other games at RVS stage. Double voting is usually a scum thing to do, and even if it may not be the case this time, especially in a newbie game, all i did was pick up on this and comment.
3) It's not just me who thinks that double RVS voting is a scumtell, one of the reasons I cited was a direct quote from anther player in another game of mine in a similar RVS situation.

Double RVS-ing tends to be a solid scumtell, since there's no point to it. You RVS for pressure - why would you destroy reasonless pressure on one person to push reasonless pressure on another?

explain why my theory was scummy and I'll give you a gold star.
my theory was spot on, regardless of if gxw isn't mafia in this game.

anyaways, that's my long post of the day.
Oh, and Charlie, I joined your theme game :3

[Twistedspoon]

there's nothing compelling there to really make me believe 'YES, this person is scum'.

obviously not

that would be near impossible this early on

My intention was to reveal how scummy that post appeared to be.
It was not an OMGUS, nor a conviction,
in fact my post was little more than an observation backed up by mafia theory and then an invitation to gxw to explain his post.

In short, The quoted conclusion was not the one I was aiming for so it seems a bit out of place so early into the game.

[Twistedspoon]

it's possible that you being English is colouring my judgment on you anyway. *grin*

[insert predictable joke about bagpipes and haggis]
JK

scottish people are cool. Better than the Welsh anyways.

but I also think that it devalues a vote just as much to leave it lying fallow when you think you have a case to place it down.

this makes sense. However my style is to usually HoS then vote if they're still scummy
Besides, when would we ever HoS? We'd all have justifications for votes as we have justifications for HoS's so HoS's would become irrelevant

I find my HoS similar to Charlie's response in that gxw's post was questionable, but not vote-worthy

hope that clears things up for you

[Twistedspoon]

@TS, since you no longer seem to feel gxw to be the scummiest of players, can you tell us who you

would

like to vote for, and why?

Woah, where did this come from?

one step at a time mate.
When did i say this?

I said that his first post could be seen as scummy due to it's parallels with mafia theory.
This led to my HoS
I then unvoted because I felt that his post and his subsequent ones were not enough to deserve a vote. He seemed more confused town to me after he explained that he had tried to use his scumtell to fish for scum. This is why I unvoted.

However I never said that I don't feel gxw to be 'the scummiest of players' as you put it. Just not scummy enough for a vote. In fact at page 2 I don't even want to have to choose who is and isn't scummy, which is why I'm not voting yet. Also to keep the power of the vote and such..

3)I've seen no scum-hunting by him beyond...

Incorrect. I've given my opinions on the actions of other players that have been signifiacant to me.

Dazzy's quickness at jumping on the fastest wagon is interesting, although this might not actually be a scumtell since there was only one on the wagon so far, and Daz seemed to justify his vote, something which mafia would find harder to do since they usually don't care which townie dies on day1 .

Here's a point I brought up about you, so don't accuse me of tunneling now.
Also, I haven't done too much scumhunting in your opinion because we're on page 2 still, however I'm pleased with my contribution so far.
Maybe when you guys give me some breathing space and stop being at my neck I can get to some scumhunting.

1) The initial over-reaction and subsequent semi-OMGUS HoS

HoS means nothing at the end of the day. I merely wanted more info from gxw in the same way that Charlie did.
I just made my intent more official with a HoS

2) The waffling on gxw's scumminess/vote

Either this or RVS.
And i think it's in the best interests of the town to leave RVS ASAP
Oh, and it wasn't waffling on, it was justification.

hope this clears things up for you now

G'Night all

[Twistedspoon]

Call it gut if you will,

gut

[Twistedspoon]

Charlie's wagoning noted

However, TS is still the most suspicious of the lot (if only for lack of much activity so far)

a good point

my active self is clearly being suspiciously over-active. Do you guys want me to be less active? that seems oddly anti-town though

I'll cool off for a bit and let you guys catch up, but you guys seriously need to find other alternatives to my self because you're all tunneling right now, and once you've realised this mistake you'll be left with no alternate suspects.
So for the good of the town let's move onto alternatives

[Twistedspoon]

us find alternatives to our "tunneling" so that we will have alternate suspects if/when we drop you as suspect. That to me is the most pro-town thing you could do.

yep, you pass the test daz. I was never really going to 'slow down.' How anti-town would that be?

anyways, I'll catch up with the rest of the thread and post hopefully tonight

[Twistedspoon]

This is L-2. That's 2 more votes to lynch, so be careful when placing new votes on him. A premature lynch does not benefit anyone but Mafia.

What the heck is this? How can you promote a cautious approach to someone you just recklessly voted on?

this is so true.
When you vote for someone you're in favour of their lynch, yet Charlie seems to be making his wagoning seem dilute and pro-town by not wanting a 'premature lynch' even though he voted on a 'gut feeling'

That and Charlie's role-fishing post make me very suspicious.

I have noted them and will be sure not to forget them later in the game.

I'll wait for Charlie's response before voting and such though.

FarmeriXi self-voted first post, though he did unvote in the same post, I have seen scum do that in a game and he got killed for it so apparently scum do that sometimes for some reason.

Scum sometimes do it to make them seem impartial or town or not caring if they're lynched and thus not mafia.
However I'll reserve judgement on farmer until later on. I don't think he's the type to scumslip in post one.
null read

[Twistedspoon]

You appear to have dodged the question(s) charlie. Why did you ask someone how they felt about their role? This is as good as rolefishing, which you have just said is a bad thing.

Vote Charlie

I put my vote there on page 2 with confidence that I'll be able to take it off to prevent a premature lynch should TS be suddenly placed at L-1.

Alarm bells should be ringing here.
How do you know that the two scummers haven't yet voted and could hammer me before you retract your vote? How can you therefore have this confidence you claim you have, unless you know who the scummers are and who will therefore vote and hammer?

To me it seems like Charlie is saying 'Oh I'll leave my vote Here, I know how dangerous a premature lynch is though.'
This makes charlie look spring clean should I get quicky hammered with a 'oh, I forgot to retract my vote'
That's the danger he's getting into here.

I'd like to add that it is bad play for Townies to lie about their role.

Isn't that obvious. It looks to me that you're trying to appear pro-town here.

Ghostlin's vote and reasons against me is noted, I have no comment on the matter at this time.

Why not?

If you're townie you should have a justification for your actions and rolefishing.
Or has your 'gut' excuse for wagoning already worn thin?

I don't have to rely on my gut to know that Charlie seems scummish.
I've just lynched scum in my mini open game and am hungry to do some more.

Answer the questions this time, Charlie

[Twistedspoon]

@Ghostlin: fair enough. I see you point. Maybe newbie's don't see it so obviously. But we'd have half the players claiming doctor otherwise :/

@K1216: Charlie is at L-2. Myself, ghostlin and mute have votes on him. He's not at L-1 just yet, unless you vote him

[Twistedspoon]

Yes, quickhammering is usually a bad thing to do, but it's so tempting and is always worth it if the player flips scum. Charlie's question-doging leads me to believe he may be

I probably wouldn't be able to resist hammering if I had the chance to right now. Good thing I'm not in that position then.

Farmer, please post more.

I think it's slightly unfair to pick on only farmer here.
but yes, moar posting is nice

[Twistedspoon]

@ Twisted:

Yes, quickhammering is usually a bad thing to do, but it's so tempting and is always worth it if the player flips scum. Charlie's question-doging leads me to believe

he may be

I probably

wouldn't be able to resist hammering

if I had the chance to right now. Good thing I'm not in that position then.

Something a bit off in here...

Your approach to the value of votes implies to me that the lynch of someone would be a matter of some thought. Why are you so eager to hammer someone who "may be" scum before he has mounted a

proper

defense? Seems a little out of character... ISGMEOY (S = Still )

Yep, that's a flaw of mine. We all have flaws and that's one of mine, which is why I'm glad I can't commit it as I'm not in a position to hammer.
Now let's talk about what I do better; cracking the case

I also don't see anything with pure role-fishing intentions being done that blatantly.

I don't care how blatantly it was. That is irrelevant.

Rolefishing is a very scummy thing to do, and Charlie has failed to justify this

On top of that, even with both SE players in the game on the lynch, I'm AMAZED how fast a wagon built up on the game IC, wonder how often newbie-scum gets scared of the IC and looks for an opportunity to get rid of him around here?

Oh, you're using his IC status to defend Charlie. Well we needn't be afraid of that.
Being IC doesn't exclude him from being mafia, and that's what he certainly looks like.

If anyone opposes a Charlie lynch purely because he is IC they they are sadly mistaken. IC is just as likely to be scum as any of us. Clearly Foresti does and he's using this argument to protect scum partner Charlie
It seems you're trying to defend Charlie a little too much here.
If Forseti and Charlie turn out to be the mafia, you guys owe me a medal

Either he made one reckless move, in which case you've been as reckless, if not more so, or what you did wasn't all that reckless, and if yours wasn't, his CERTAINLY wasn't given that TS was further away from a lynch than Charlie is.

So assuming, you're townie, then one possible townie has now a higher chance of being lynched than another possible townie. So what's the problem, unless you know that one isn't townie, and therfore a a scum buddy.

The question dodging on Charlie's part after being asked straight out the meaning of some his plays... that I can see as a reason to vote. You, however, barely mentioned that in your case, throwing it in like an afterthought

I don't care how the case was phrased.
What matters is that Charlie dodged the questions which show he is scum. Double the reason to suspect him, and now you for protecting him.

Personally, If Charlie is mafia then We're giving him a chance to wriggle free and lose out hottest lead. If he doesn't have the best defence than ever before in mafia we need to hammer him.

Oh, and also...

Vote: Dazzy

Foresti, your post was scummy up till now, but now it's hilariously scummy.

You vote Dazzy without even mentioning why. you seem to think 'Oh and also' explains your vote.
You're trying to get a counter-wagon going here to protect your scumbuddy charlie. This is obvious. Especially because you didn't give a reason.

Case cracked:

scum are almost definitely Charlie and Forest
We can't lynch these two fast enough

[Twistedspoon]

Interesting to note that Twistedspoon was the lead wagon and he does not hesitate to complete a counterwagon.

hahaha

At least I provided reasons (and good ones at that) unlike your friend foresti who randomly started a Dazzy counter-wagon to protect you. And then you did what is every townie's dream and both of you have now protected each other

whereas Forseti has not voted at all!

How irrelevant. But it confirms that you and Foresti are both mafia as you've both protected each other. You've rolefished and after dodging questions have tried to shrug it off.
Foesti protected charlie
Charlie protected foresti

Why did you ask someone how they felt about their role? This is as good as rolefishing, which you have just said is a bad thing.

As I said before, it was part of a RQS, which is used to generate discussion. The answers don't really matter

Trying to shrug off your role-fishing now?
It's still a role-fishing question, and nothing can deny that or the scum implications

Gxw (or another townie), If you want to hammer Charlie then go for it. He's trying to confuse you with his fancy IC talk. If he flips scum (which seems incredibly likely), then you're our hero.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
tl;dr (Foresti Case)

Foresti is defending charlie too much, Approves of role-fishing, showed his scum alliance and trying to build an unjustified counter-wagon on Dazzy to protect Charlie.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Conclusion: Dazzy and Charlie are the scum 99% sure; case solved.
gg guys

[Twistedspoon]

strawmanning are we now?

pick the weakest part of my argument, attack that, and then ignore the rest.

strawmanning noted

[Twistedspoon]

strawmanning are we now?

pick the weakest part of my argument, attack that, and then ignore the rest.

strawmanning noted

Thanks for bringing this up, since on top of all the misreps, you decided to cherry pick my posts the exact same way as you just accused someone else of doing to you.

wrong

I quoted what, 4 quotes, from your argument.
Charlie quoted one weak point to attack and then ignored the rest.
Also this shows you're protecting him again; how delightful

and now you're setting up a better counter-wagon since you've seen your Dazzy one to be unjustifiable

personally, I welcome my lynch. Then, when I flip town, you'll know I was right all along, and will go ahead and lynch you two. Then we (town) win.
The same cannot be said for you too being scum.

You can lynch me, but when I flip town, go for these two. Then I'll be a happy chap.

Right… tell you what. If you ever find a wagon you don’t like build up too fast in a game your playing, keep your mouth shut about it and just let it happen.

Probably the worst piece of town advice I've ever read.
There are probably 100 things wrong with it
I don't even know where to start...
The town's best and only weapon is their voice, and you're trying to stop us even using that

[Twistedspoon]

Wow, both Charlie and TS are at L-1, and personally I am much more in favor of a TS lynch right now. I would like both people to claim before I hammer.

Can i just say that if someone hammers me now, instead of Charlie, the I'll flip town

Then we'll know I'm town and that scum will probably be on my wagon.

And then we'll look at my wagon, see the mafia suspects Foresti and Charlie on it and then we'll have our mafia

simples

gxw has a town read in my book by the way. I don't want you to suspect him for being on my wagon if he hammers me. Go for foresti and Charlie instead.

[Twistedspoon]

before I go or you guys hammer me, remember that If I was mafia I wouldn't be posting this much. I'd prefer to lie low and be slightly more than a lurker, but not as active as I am now.

Sure you can counter this argument with WIFOM, but Farmerxi knows how active I was in the last game and I wan't scum. Also, unlike scum, I'm not afraid of my lynch as then you'll see that all my suspicions were townie ones, not scum ones, when I flip town.
This is why the mafia always keep me alive. I'm active. Therefore I post a lot, therefore there are more chances for me to slip up.

anyaways, I claim Vanilla townie. no fancy roles.
If you choose to believe me or not, that's your choice. I can't force you to believe I'm town, and I won't blame any of you for hammering me.
It's your choice. never forget that the town's greatest weapon is their voice. Let it be heard.

~Twistedspoon

[Twistedspoon]

you guys will regret letting our leads go cold.
Advantage mafia. ¬_¬

back to square 1

Question: What is your opinion of all of the players i.e. who do you think is town and who do you think is scum?

Nice simple question. My opinions

Foresti: mafia
Charlie: mafia
mute: unsure. Leaning town
Dazzy: town
Farmer: null
gxw: town
Ghostlin: town
Dazzy: unsure. Probably town
King: null

[Twistedspoon]

He totally justified it. Seriously.

no. He just randomly voted Dazzy.
There is no case against Dazzy.

What reasons are there that Dazzy is scum?

anyawys, any direct questions before I go to bed?
If you lynch me and I flip town while I'm asleep remember who was on my wagon.

Oh, and I'm giving king a town read, since if he was mafia he would probably would have hammered and rid us of a townie.

[Twistedspoon]

^omgus?

[Twistedspoon]

FYI, I am inches away from hammering you. And changing my read to town from null is a pretty scummy way to try and get me to not hammer.

no, it's that if you were scum you would have already hammered and been one less townie better off

I'm not trying to buddy; it's a fact that you would have hammered if mafia

[Twistedspoon]

alright, I missed the case on dazzy then; I was in a rush
I'm sorry

[Twistedspoon]

You also ignored people saying you missed the case at least 3 times, just from memory.

fine, like I say i was in a rush

If no-one's hammering or asking questions then what's the next step?

[Twistedspoon]

VI? that's just mean; I merely tested out a new way of presenting my suspicions in a newbie game.
You'll see when the game ends and my suspects flip scum...

[Twistedspoon]

UNVOTE: Charlie
I don't know anything anymore

I didn't even know I had a meta

post #100 seems only slightly scummy. Not as scummy as hammering would have been for gxw, so I see no reason to hold it against him.
He chose the lesser of two scummy acts.

I'll just say that this game is completely different to my last newbie game, as farmer would know, and maybe that's what has confused me.
I'm sorry, will cool down and get back on track now.

but seriously, I actually wasn't trying to buddy to king. It's merely a theory of mine that he'd have hammered me if scum, since I'm the only confirmed townie I know.
Mafia might have been on my wagon, might not.

It's a tricky puzzle this game and I'm going to have to get into serious game mode to prove I'm not VI. That's my challenge.

[Twistedspoon]

I've looked at it. Seems pretty okay, as far as Town Doc plays so you're not VI in my book. Question is, how come you're not as cool as a cucumber when facing a threat of (mis?)lynch on D1? Do you think your play there and here are equal?

I'm sorry
It's just that some of my actions have been really ambiguous and confusing, like my supposed buddying to king, when I was saying a read of mine from an observation.
I've really gone and confused everyone.
I won't disappoint in candy zoo :3

what's a trifecta though?

[Twistedspoon]

I feel like a tell has fallen from one scum (haven't said what that is),

If you think you've hit scum then why not tell us?

[Twistedspoon]

I agree with King's points execpt for maybe only a couple.
For example, point 4 indicates farmer is tracking King.
Well it's better than no-one tracking you and letting you go under the radar

It seems similar to point 12 too though.

I still have small town read on him at present, mainly due to him not hammering me and his playstyle from the previous game.

[Twistedspoon]

8. Twistedspoon's continued defense to the arguments against him has been mostly AtE.

you were kind enough to put mostly in

:3

but srsly, Methinks you're still talking about my 'buddying' to you.
Well that wasn't what I was doing. It looks ambiguous and could be seen as that, but it wasn't.
and what's wrong with AtE if it keeps a townie alive? That's all that matters at the end of the day.
No prizes for logic.

But i see your point and have booted up my logic circuits now.

[Twistedspoon]

Twistedspoon, can you briefly describe your current situation in this game i.e. how you think you're faring, a general self-appraisal?
I ask because I'd like to compare it with mine.

I don't think I've made a good first impression.
I tried to confront scum, what, 4 pages in?
I was clearly too overenthusiastic, reckless and lynch-happy, and this has made me appear slightly anti-town and carefree over lynches.
Many of the other players are very good. Credit to them
But i'll continue. If I give up then mafia win.

[Twistedspoon]

Lynches I would not mind ATM:

Charlie, TS. King 1216.

why do you not mind a king lynch, ghostlin?

[Twistedspoon]

no worries
it's only a newbie game

[Twistedspoon]

...
and what's wrong with AtE if it keeps a townie alive? That's all that matters at the end of the day.
...

And how would we know if it is protecting a townie or a scum? Answer: We don't.

lol, that's not one of my cleverest statements

but it's worth mentioning that scum know who

[Twistedspoon]

because they can push townie lynches with 100% confidence

[Twistedspoon]

Also, TS, I dislike your argument about 'scum can push townie lynches with 100% confidence'. It's a well-known that you can find scum on the lynch wagons often: even those of the other scum. Look up bussing in the wiki.

Bussing is the other side of the coin

When scum vote a townie, they know they're voting a townie.

[Twistedspoon]

Or maybe I'm getting prarnoid.

Paranoid is perfectly normal. Only mafia don't have a reason to be paranoid.

Personally, I need more Foresti. My gut is quite uncomfortable with him, so Let's hope he respons to his prod.
Mute's vanished for 4 days too, but he's been prodded :/

So what does everyone else think of foresti, juts to start discussion whilst waiting for prods to be picked up?

[Twistedspoon]

I think everyone fells some eagerness to hammer because of the thrill of the flip; that's only natural.
However it isn't sensible and people usually don't hammer so early.

gxw merely said he was eager, but what matters at the end of the day is that he didn't hammer when he could have.

I'm not defending him, that's just my take on hia actions. I could be completely wrong, but that's just how I interpreted things.

[Twistedspoon]

just giving my interpretation of it since he said he'll be gone for a while

I'm trying to get discussion going again

[Twistedspoon]

tumbleweed

[Twistedspoon]

maybe some other time gxw?

I look forward to it

[Twistedspoon]

see you farmer

I look forwards to our third game

anyways, welcome tclawren

[Twistedspoon]

Hiya Meransiel

Anyone who lists TvTropes and biology as their interests is cool with me
Looks like you're in my double day game too =D

anyways, we'll should give you some time to catch up. It's sad to see farmer and gxw go, but you guys should fit in fine too after catching up.

[Twistedspoon]

uh

No lynch would be a really bad thing, especially when it comes to LyLo. We need an odd number for that, and no-lynch stops that.
Also, the mafia will only kill off our strongest town read, so we'd be in no-better a position for day 2

No lynch is usually pretty bad in newbie games; I don't advise it.
My weakest town read is foresti, but having said that I don't see much evidence why any player is mafia.

[Twistedspoon]

VOTE: Foresti

It seems we've hit a slight dead-end (or at least we did before our two new players)
I'm going to apply some pressure on Foresti with this vote

[Twistedspoon]

because it's been 4 days since he was last here.
I'm hoping he'll respond to the vote.

Other than that no reason apart from slight gut which I can think of. Nothing in particular stands out. As I say, I don't have any particularly scummy reads anymore

[Twistedspoon]

@Ts: What do you think about my alignment?

well we have to take into account that you replaced farmer

I played with farmer in newbie 1050. He was town and played very well in that game

sadly, he looks a lot worse in this one, i.e. He doesn't seem to be playing as town.

However, I'm trying to give you a chance first since you've just replaced in

[Twistedspoon]

Hello, new people. Do say stuff, we won't bite.

ghostlin does; he's a wolf

Don't tell me that both Mafia members replaced out... if that is the case then I'll be surprised.

That would be surprising

Might just be farmer though :/

[Twistedspoon]

I'm not so sure

I have null or town reads on embryonic. It wouldn't surprise me if you were or weren't scum. It's just that farmer was a lot more suspicious this game than in the last one I played with him.

[Twistedspoon]

I did consider this and that is why I only have a null read on him, not townie not scum. I'm not accusing anyone at this stage.

I have null or town reads on embryonic.

This should say everyone. I hate predictive text >_>

[Twistedspoon]

He is also not scumhunting pretty much at all, and has admitted to doing (or rather, not doing) so.

it's not my fault the few scummy players replaced out

i can't go questioning famer and Gxw now can I?

I'll strike when the iron is hot, and that's not now =|

[Twistedspoon]

when i say 100% sure I'm usually wrong, especially in LyLo
took me a while to remember that

anyaways Charlie answered the questions I accused him of dodging so there was not much of a case anymore. :/
At least not that i can remember.

Another, more recent issue is his vote on Forseti. Voting someone because they haven't been around much helps us in no way.

well we've got discussion going now see. I'm good at getting discussion going, but at the expense of my townieness. It's a problem i have. I believe in newbie 1050 my first post was 'Who's the doctor then' That really got discussion going, but against me XP
anyways, it was a pressure vote at the time. That's the only way I could have been sure we didn't have a lurker. We probably don't, but still :/

gtg for today. Ciao

[Twistedspoon]

...
Charlie - Obvscum.

Question to the more experienced players: Do scum or town usually confess more often to being scum. I can't imagine why either would want to do it. Is charlie trying to confuse us? Am i just looking too much into it?

Anyways, will post later; Haven't forgotten

[Twistedspoon]

P-edit: TS, I know you said you will post later, but please post soon. Thanks

hit me with some questions

I'm really bad at going back to find questions. I usually miss some out because I don't see them as questions or to me, and then people get annoyed that I ignore their questions :/

But I'm ready to accept your questions now. Bear in mind I can't prove anything and therefore some answers may inevitably be seen to be WIFOM. But i'll try my best

[Twistedspoon]

I voted foresti because
1) I had a null read on him
2) If he was a lurker then I assumed he would respond to the vote
3) I really wouldn't have voted if i believe it made no difference. What would the point of that be to town or scum? :/

[Twistedspoon]

^this

even my lynch would help town; I admit it. If I wasn't me I'd advocate my lynch since the fliip would really expand our horizons

Basically the town has 2 weapons; the lynch and their brains (and the information from the flip that inform them). Both, sadly, are under the (smaller) influence of scum. However, wanting to not lynch kills one of our weapons and severely limits the second.
It also means no flip which makes the town unable to slowly be more informed, as the Mafia are.

I really don't know how I missed that, but good find Ghostlin.
It certainly adds weight to the case on farmer.

[Twistedspoon]

1) If you have a null read on Foresti, who do you believe is scum? Do you think a Foresti vote is more important than them?

2) Fair enough.

3) It is possible it could be a scum tactic to redirect conversation, or a town tactic as a prod. You wish for us to believe the second.

1) well This game is quite annoying because null reads are as far the scummy reads as I get. Not sure I was liking farmer or Gxw, but they replaced out, so we'll have to see. Mute seems to be trying a little too hard to be town too, yet still trying to balance lurking and activity. At this stage I have just a gut read on him.

3)town tactic is cool with me. Of course redirecting conversation would have been cool too if Foresti posted to help develop my read on him

[Twistedspoon]

I didn't say I don't want a lynch to take place. I just don't want to have a part in it, unless the proof is obvious enough.

so you want to keep your hands clean should a townie is lynched? Seriously, I can't think why you'd say that.

VOTE: Meransiel

[Twistedspoon]

well in my experience these aren't good signs.

I DO want to keep my hands clean should a townie be lynched, yes.

usually a mafia tactic so they can basically say 'I told you so. listen to me next time' after a townie is killed. They know who's townie so it works for them.
anyways, does it matter who does the killing? You say you want a lynch so why does it matter that you don't participate in it?
Like i say, you're restricting the town's best weapon against the scum.

[Twistedspoon]

I've just softclaimed to having a power role, and you didn't even notice...is it really early where you are?

no, I just didn't want to draw attention to it should scum see it :/
too late now I guess

It's 8PM in the UK anyways. :/

I want a second opinion of Meransiel's softclaim and his decision not to partcipate in today's lynch.

[Twistedspoon]

>_>
advantage mafia

Just look at newbie 1050 for proof. The cop and doc both claimed on day 1. I got RB'd and the cop got killed. 'Twas a perfect mafia sweep.
Breadcrumbing is probably the only type of claim you should do unless you're about to be hammered in a newbie game, or you're a cop with a guilty verdict.

so now that you've gone and softclaimed(too late now) do you mind explaining why you don't want to help the town lynch scum?

[Twistedspoon]

triple Ninja'd:

keep him alive? what if that's what the mafia want us to do.

Assuming he isn't mafia the mafia could just RB him and thus make him seem scum by having a claimed PR still alive.
Assuming he is mafia we should lynch him.

really don't know why he softclaimed at all. It doesn't answer my question at all and there was no hammer on him

[Twistedspoon]

although I guess we can't kill a softclaimed PR for today.
Ghostlin makes sense.

Even if he is scum we can still try and get his partner today.

[Twistedspoon]

in post 273 i never sugessted killing mer; that'd be crazy, at least for today

I really should have put the two posts as one; that's how my thought processes worked. It does look like I changed my mind though as i used two posts.
Read them as one post, then you'll see

and yeah I assumed there was a roleblocker. Is it wrong to consider the possibility?

[Twistedspoon]

I thought you were cool Ghostlin
your last post seems to be a makeshift justification for a townie lynch. Looking at clawren's 'do not hammer unless you are really sure post' it doesn't seem as though you are really sure. :/

It just seems I'm your lab rat

Ah well. I'm dead now. Fun playing with you guys.
The good news is that you guys might still win and the PR wasn't lynched.
the better news is that I can join the newbie queue as an SE now

I look forwards to playing with you all again. My thanks to the Mod too.

any final words or questions to me before I go?

[Twistedspoon]

shrug

no point arguing now, though I have some reasons in my head.
Btw, I actually chased a lead towards the end with Mer saying he wanted to keep his hands clean. That made my null read appear scummish until he claimed.

Idc as long as town win.

If you townie's don't win you have me to answer to

anyways, I'll be sure to repay the favour sometime
JK

~Twistedspoon

[Twistedspoon]

course, I'm sticking around. I'm not leaving that fast

I can't wait to read the QT at the end. That's always the best bit.

[Twistedspoon]

anyways, now that I'm dead who are your top scum reads?
I'd like to think I've helped the town in some way through my death.

I'm VT if you haven't already firgured it out :/

[Twistedspoon]

In short, yes, I was at risk. But the good part (for you at least) is that, given my self endangerment, I can now scumhunt and vote without consequence!

no, you'll probably get nightkilled unless the mafia have an RB or wish to play Wifom

and what do you mean without consequence? We don't know for sure you're not mafioso, 'twas just too risky for you to be today's kill

and L-2 is nothing. L-1 + announced intention to hammer is when a claim should be made
you were safe from the hammer, at least whilst I lived.

[Twistedspoon]

By "without consequence" I mean that it can't get any worse, so it serves me no good playing cautiously, so I won't. And L-2 is something if you're the prime suspect.

prime suspect by 3 players. No majority would have lynched you today anyway

@Ghostlin: I seriously don't expect to get to lylo.

That's the spirit

[Twistedspoon]

awww

but we were having so much fun

[Twistedspoon]

[*]If you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post except for a brief “Bah!”-type post that contains NO game related information.

Bah!

anyways, good luck guys

[Twistedspoon]

lol

gg

I'll do better next time (as ghostlin will see)

but I'm an SE now ^_^

watch this space

[Twistedspoon]

hydras are cool

I'm in a game with one

they're simple enough, but annoying when you have to keep logging in twice

[Twistedspoon]

town apart is much more fitting