Metropolis: Redemption [Game Over]

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: NoPoint

Obviously Trifecta scum ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

So Shadow - which of your heads will be signing with a Cop emoticon? I want to know what particular brand of crazy I am reading - be it CMAR or Furcolow ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Saving myself early from your play now. And yes this is mostly to CMAR.

If CMAR is the greatest fear you have from that Hydra then be prepared for Furc.

Also, if you are interested in Hydra heads GummyBear is a quadz-SingerSinger hydra, for the record.

--

Actually, if you read up on my latest games (since the return from leaving the site), I've been a lot better about it. A bunch of players have noticed too.

Last I saw you were allowing yourself, as a Town Bulletproof, to get lynched Day 1 of Clash of Kings with substandard play. If you haven’t improved (especially with the anchor that is Furc attached to you) don’t expect any leeway from me.

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Claim: Angel of Death

Fate, when you go all gambit / claim crazy at least have the decency to actually look up the actual name of the role you claim. It’s a semi-open game after-all. Yeah, I know it’s probably all part some clever ‘Tarp’ or part of your WIFOM play, but it just makes you look lazy. You are better than that.

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Let's play the claim bulletproof and confirm a townie game!

It can also be done after N1 when said Townie might have drawn a NK, if you wanted to be actually smart about it. Unless it only protects against scum shots.

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And he also isn't lying. At least I don't think he is.

Either way it really doesn't matter. If he is then he is. If he isn't then he isn't going to get counterclaimed.

But why didn’t you think he was lying? Don’t tell me you drew the Godfather role again and thought that playing scummy to draw an innocent investigation would work any better this time.

[MagnaofIllusion]

UNVOTE: NoPoint
VOTE: Espeonage

Have your fake-claim ready Esp?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why are you attacking me young sir?
VOTE: ShadowGuru

Because you are the newb and thus the only possible weaker link than that hydra …

Did you actually read the thread and notice someone is at Lynch -1? What are your thoughts on this?

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While I'm waiting for Espeonage to answer with the claim, a quick question to Gold:

Is this your notice that you intend to hammer?

No comment on anything else in the thread? Like say Fate’s wacky claim?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOD – I’ll be V/LA from about 1 pm EST today until Monday morning

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But really we can confirm a townie during day. I personally don't mind if the herd clears out faster at night, especially with some Trifecto's heads

Yeah, but you aren’t thinking it through. If BP vest does not claim and plays uber Town and draws the Trifecta NK then they are still confirmed plus we fucked with a Mafia kill plus you get even better PoE after we lynch Day 1.

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I'd vote for him if it wasn't the hammer, but there's no point hammering this early, especially when most people haven't posted anything more then RVS votes. It all ultimately depends on what he says about all of this though.

If you weren’t willing to hammer why did you say you expect him to claim?

I'm still pondering about what Fate's claim means in regard to him. I could see any alignment of Fate doing this, and he's ultimately a bit of a wild card and hard to read. Considering that most of the argument about his claim is total WIFOM at best, I think it's more of a null tell right now

Fluff, fluff, fluff, wonderful fluff.

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Does CDog even, pay attention now, give thought to the possibility of either me or Espeon being scum?

NO.

BECAUSE WERE NOT LISTED IN HIS ROLE PM.

This quote alone is epically sheep-worthy. And I don’t usually sheep …

UNVOTE: Espeonage
VOTE: CooLDoG

See what you can accomplish when you aren’t constrained by the shackles of Caps Lawk Fate?

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L-1 on espy... That wagon built up fast. I want an espy claim. And it had better be spelled correctly (fate).

So you want a claim when no-one has even hinted at hammering and when you are expressing ‘concern’ about how fast the wagon built? Scumtastic. You know very well that premature claiming leads to bad results (Brotherhood of the Wolf).

@fate, who are you killing tonight?

Insert face-palm pic here …

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Please don't be stupid people. As if I'm going to claim straight out of the gate this early on day one. By all means if you still want to lynch me later that's cool.

If someone threatened to hammer you and you were a Town PR you had best have claimed. Your use of MoI Secret Scum-tell Number 5 noted for the record.

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So Fate was your claim just an attempt to scum hunt or was it legit? Unfortunately I have NOT played with any of the rest of you so I don't know metas of anyone. What I do know is that according to wiki the Evil Angel is technically a third party, right? So do you claim knowing that you don't really have a chance to win once a claim happens?

So you ask a question and then provide the logical answer in your last sentence. What was the point of this post again?

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MOI: Know that my play has greatly improved since even when I played with you early-days in [redacted], or wherever it was that you completely gave up and got easily lynched as scum, can't exactly remember where, but given that we have played together numerous times, and you are a great poster and scumhunter, don't you believe you will be able to properly read me better than anyone else in the game? I disagree, but hey, it's all good.

You haven’t in any game shown me what I would call great improvement. Cyclical Experiment was the closest to what I would call small steps but even there you caused Vi to have to take over the Hydra slot to prevent disaster.

And yes, I do think I can read you well. I pretty much nailed you as scum pretty easily Bold and Beautiful along with miller13 early on.

I want a wagon on the SingerSigner/Quadz hydra for policy

For you to call for a policy lynch on anyone when you decry mud-slinging / talk of a policy lynch on your slot is at best hypocritical.

Fate unvoting off of the Espeonage wagon is scummy to me
I know I'm doing it, but I wanted to see a hammer on that...

So what are your strongly developed reasons for wanting a Esp lynch again. The only hints I see in your ISO are ‘I don’t like this post’ (with no explanation why) in ISO 8 and that Esp believed Fate in ISO 5.

And calling someone scummy for doing exactly what you are doing is again hypocritical, regardless of whether you acknowledge it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Mandga, people were hinting at a hammer if you were reading the thread.

People is a term that means more than 1. Name more than one person who can credibly by considered to be hinting they want to hammer. You can’t Here’s a road map for you –

I put Esp at L-1 at post 48.

LMP’s lame ‘fake-hammer’ at 50 doesn’t count as if you were reading the thread you would know he was already on the wagon.

Gold ignores the game completely at 51.

Malth I’ll give you credit for at 52 as I thought the same thing.

Fate unvotes at 59.

Once again – why is someone claiming (as you wanted Esp to do so) good if you think he is Town (inferred by your comment about wagon speed)? Town claiming without good reason is not good play.

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Goddamn it. I made a mental note to never sheep Fate ever again.

But you turn around and do so in this post. Why even post that statement? Trying to distance yourself from the wagon in the event it turns out badly?

[MagnaofIllusion]

No Bulletproof vest for me N1.

Whoever had it should claim possession N1 but not who it was passed.

--

Another strong Espeonage wagon? I approve.

VOTE: Espeonage

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@NoPoint

– your 133 is either full of fail or scumtastic. I have to decide which but for the moment I'm leaning fail.

--

I’ll now indulge in a bit of speculation for future reference.

I believe that Farside is scum.

Her play is logical and reasonable on the surface. But I want to focus in on here play at the time of the Espeonage to CooLDoG shift.

Farside was not on the Esp wagon Day 1. Her vote was sitting on Shadow-VI at the time when Esp was pushed to L-1.

At 59 Fate places the first CoolDoG vote.
At 64 Espeonage places a vote on Malth (confirmed Town) which is the second vote on Malth (NoPoint was the first).
At 75 GummyBear places a second vote on CooLDoG. This brings the wagons even.

Then we have the following post from Farside at 78:

hmmm I see cooldog is calling espy town and not even putting in as possible scum.

I also don't like malthusis entrance in this game. He wants a claim from Espy, but doesn't call him scummy or say why.
And this:

I'd vote for him if it wasn't the hammer, but there's no point hammering this early, especially when most people haven't posted anything more then RVS votes. It all ultimately depends on what he says about all of this though.

Again no reason in this post on why he would vote for espy.

unvote:
vote: malthusis

Here she notes the case on CooLDoG in the first sentence but finds an excuse to go after Town over scum based on Malth’s posts. I agree that Malth’s post did not make much sense (which is why I questioned him) but CooLDoG’s statement and subsequent responses to questions were pure scum-leaks. Farside, at the point of her vote, shifted the wagon on stupid Town ahead of obv-Scum.

Note that Farside does not address the wagon on Espeonage at all and doesn't mention CooLDoG after the light suspicion in 78.

[Fixed broken quote tags - RC]

[MagnaofIllusion]

Reaper can you fix my busted Farside quote in that post please?

[Yes. - RC]

[MagnaofIllusion]

I do not think CoolDog would start something like this with his partner.

So you don’t think he was capable of bussing? And you do get that there is another lock-solid reason Esp should be lynched regardless of whether he’s Trifecta.

CoolDog's vote is staying on Esp, thus, if they were partners, CoolDog would not be talking about how Espy would flip town.

CoolDog-scum ask people why they think he's scum becuz he feels threatened and can't help retorting so. If he feels threatened then the people he asked could only be non-scum.

Again the glaring hole in your theories is why I called your post full of fail.

Stefunny's posts look town oriented and he looks like he's trying to scum hunt.

Which post in Stefunny’s ISO shows scum-hunting from your perspective?

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eugh.

Fate speaks sense.

Short first day.

3rd person on wagon which we can assume includes at least one busser.

Want to wait for a post from Gold before deciding wether to vote Agar or Gold. More later.

The bolded make me throw up in my mouth just a bit.

1. Explicitly sucking up to Fate after yesterday making a point to say you promised yourself you would NEVER follow him again smells of scum wanting to keep on the good side of the wild and crazy guy.
2. 3rd on Wagon bullshit wiki-tell detected.

Why again are you assuming one busser? Given the speed of the day scum may well have gotten caught with their pants down. Also, Pro-tip – AGar has almost no chance of being said busser if there is one.

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Half ,y fucking case on CDog was him knowing ,e and Esp were town.

You're not reading again, and you wonder why people criticize your play lately

Don’t let what mojo you’ve got going on cloud your play dude. You know very well there is a smoldering, evil hole in that statement.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@ MoI: You know as well as I do that we are effectively just coming out of the RVS. At the moment the choice is teeny tell V ignorant wagon me V Inexperienced townie wagon.

1. RVS ended the moment CooLDoG got his first vote for being obv-scum. Attempting to say otherwise is fail.
2. Third on wagon is not a Tell. Period. It’s something found on the wiki for players to parrot as opposed to thinking. You want a tell from that wagon? Look at all the votes and interactions and find your suspected busser based on that and not arbitrarily location.
3 “Inexperienced Townie Wagon” … so you absolutely know that Gold isnt’ scum? My god it’s the second coming of CooLDoG!!!

KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!

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Wow so that quote you just shared said nothing about CD at all.

Yes, it says you want to put some light suspicion on him but vote for someone who we now know was Town based on behavior I find clearly less scummy than CooLDoG's herp a derp affair. What this has to do with you not mentioning him after that post I have no clue ...

Question

– why did you make no mention about the wagon that had reached L-1 and started to fall apart by the time you posted 78 at all Day 1?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Bulletproof Vest tracking

– the following players have all posted today and not claimed having the bulletproof vest N1 either directly or via ommission:

MoI
Farside
Shadowguru
Fate
AGar
Esp
Stefunny
Gold
NoPoint
LMP

If GummyBear does not claim having it N1 we have to consider the possibility that it went up in smoke with Malth …

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@Shadow

– You do know that GummyBear is likely the only player who could have had the Bulletproof vest D1 unless it burnt up in the fire, right?

I'm going to admit voting you for your FoS of my partner's play, Farside, but after actually reading you in iso, I dislike your vote on Malthusis into him dying.

He didn't really feel like he was going to get wagonned over CD to me, but it may just be you not having your head in the game.

Regardless, after your iso read, I'm suspicious of you, but I'm going to unvote

Um whut? You find Farside suspicions for her vote on Malth but unvote to engage in a protracted policy / lurker hunt?

And please explain what you mean by the bolded. At the point Farside made her vote for Malth the wagons on Matlh and CooLDoG were even.

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At this point I agree with Fate, I reread the CooLDog quote where he calls Fate and Espe town and I really can't read it as scum bussing, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Once again there is a large, flaming evil hole in your theory that CooLDoG calling Esp innocent means he must be Town …

Regarding 158

- I do like the highlighted points in Shadow’s second quote and you suggestions about Shadow’s possible scum intent

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In reviewing Farside’s player list at 154 I’m struck that it is a large swath of text that pretty much fence-sits most players.

Calls Fate and AGar Town (but also leaves some wiggle-room on Fate).
Calls Gold (newb to site) scum.

Everyone else is Null. So little commitment to making reads that can be questioned down the line.

Looking at the convo between CD and Espy. I do not believe they are scum together. I do however think Espy has a good chance at being SK

I want to revisit this Farside. You specifically state that you think Esp has a good chance of being the Evil Angel (SK). Why?

With one scum already down and a generally good Night result (only 1 Town death and it is a VT) Town is in a fairly solid position as far as numbers and PoE possibilities. Today would be a very good day to lynch the Evil Angel as it lessens the number of Nightkills.

Yet you vote Gold for rather flimsy reasons – I read 95 as admitting he’s unused to the MS norms (which he should be as a new member) and questioning you about some comments you made. I don’t see strong scum motivation in that post.

Are you saying in your view what Malth said on day 1 didn't look scummy to you? Or because i made one comment on CD and wondered at the speed of the wagon I'm autoscum?

As you say – read the thread. Clearly I found Malth’s comments questionable. That’s why I asked him about his motivations. But they certainly didn’t look as scummy as CooLDoG’s posts and reactions at the point where you made the decision to vote Malth over CooLDoG.

Again I feel you are Trifecta scum because you gave CooLDoG the equivalent of a soft FOS yet voted for Malth who we know is Town at a point where your vote might have swung momentum towards a Town wagon as opposed to a Scum wagon.

Just because the thread (properly) exploded in a stream of CooLDoG votes soon afterwards doesn’t mean I should ignore what I see as scum motivation.

You just lost some town points from me.

So are you moving him down into the mass of Null that mean nothing now?

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@ MoI: We kinda are. We lynched a scum. There is basically nothing to read back on bar a rvs and the wagon. It was a simple wagon so nto much there bar the scraps we can try and dredge from it. The state of the game looks like it's just coming out of rvs.

Bzzt. Even with a fast Day 1 there is still plenty of information to mine. It’s not RVS Day 2 ever.

No response to the point that you called Gold Town with no reason to do so?

KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!

@Esp

– Please directly share your thoughts about Farside and my case. I’d like you on record as to whether you think the case has merit or not (and thus your opinion as to whether Farside is likely scum or not)

[MagnaofIllusion]

Notice the "Mandga"
I'm assuming he is talking to magna
That is reeking of a scumslip to me
FoS: MoI

You assume he was talking to me? Great work there Sherlock. He was responding to A DIRECT QUESTION I POSTED HERE.

But please, elaborate on what scum-slip you are seeing.

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That is ABSURD. It's obvious what he's saying is "Fate is good at catching scum for the town". Not "Fate is good at catching us".

QFT

Attention Pyromaniac - Please burn the VI from our presence tonight. Thank you in advance.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm assuming he is talking to magna
That is reeking of a scumslip to me

Here I am the partner of CooLDoG …

Vig please realize he is likely the SK

Oops no wait I’m the Evil Angel now …

Anyone notice how LMP and MoI appear to be buddying up on me, and are both on the Espeonage wagon together? Fishy fishy

Oh wait now I’m back to being Trifecta scum, but this time with LMP thrown it to boot.

DERP

[MagnaofIllusion]

It doesn't matter what role you are, you are scum
Also, please bend over, and remove the stick out of your ass, you snooty little shit.

So your reasoning is that I am scum. And I might be Trifecta based on your ‘slips’ but I’m also likely the Serial Killer in which case your ‘slips’ are meaningless.

But you don’t have to provide any sort of actual support (and you don’t respond when any evidence you claim to have is shredded like legal documents at Arthur Anderson) because you ‘know’ I’m scum.

When you want to play Mafia as opposed to Troll let me know …

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I know you don't shadow... but softclaiming VT IS STILL SOFTCLAIMING and antitown you gorramed moron

Why do you care … you are the Evil Angel remember?

--

Motivation for open SK claim?

Gambit.lulz.com

If he isn’t the Evil Angel it’s perfect cover because they would never kill him knowing he has to be policy lynched one day before MYLO without him as long as he continues openly claiming it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

2nd: the fuck didn't you pass me the vest for?

Why would he anyway? You are invincible anyway so it's gilding the lily to pass it to you ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Angel of DEATH. Get it right.

Whatever you say … Evil Angel

AGar is the vest permanen bulletproof or one shot? What's stopping the Medic from claiming and being a BP doctor?

Other than he would have to pass it off to someone else and questions about his claim? Nothing stopping him I guess …

[MagnaofIllusion]

On the topic of the missing kills (since everyone wants to apparently discuss it …)

At least one if not two of the follow happened last night –

1. The Mafia chose to No-kill.
2. The Evil Angel chose to No-kill.
3. The Mafia or Evil Angel chose to attempt to kill AGar who was bulletproof
4. The Mafia or Evil Angel attempted to kill someone protected by the Doctor
5. The Evil Angel attempted to kill the Pyromaniac.

All this means is that we have no clue what happened and speculating isn’t a good idea at this juncture.

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I'm saying I never received a PM instructing me to pass it on.

I'm hesitant to go with a medic claiming because I might not be able to pass it on.

Good posting …

I suspect that since you were informed at the start of the Night that you had received it you will be prompted to pass it at the start of N2.

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Elaborate on your second part? Questions about his claim wut? I don't see any downside from a bulletproof confirmed doc.

What I was inferring is the fact that a counter-claim of the Doc creates a situation where we might not be able to pass the bulletproof vest to someone. Not a great likelihood, IMO, but within the realm of possibility.

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Unvote
Vote: Shadow

Before we go aiming for VIs what do you think of the Farside case?

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@ MoI: Looks like a good case. Not going to join it though. I am actually going to do a notetaking reread sometime over the weekend

If you like the case, why aren’t you joining the wagon?

That reminds me .. thanks to your unsubtlely there

UNVOTE: Espeonage
VOTE: Farside

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Furcolow here, is anyone against the thought of AGar being confirmed town at this point?

Unless he’s counterclaimed of course not … why bother asking?

we have a doctor, a dead hooker, and 2 power roles that are ripe to be claimed

Have you carefully thought throught the implications of a Mass-claim? I’m completely serious about this question … have you run numbers and considered variables?

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Right lets bypass everything scummy he does and call it newb.
I sense a scum connection here folks.

Nice straw-man. Saying I don’t find 95 scummy at all doesn’t mean what you infer here.

You’ve never said specifically what about 95 was scummy. I’d like you to site specifically what that is in post 95. Put it on record.

Also, still waiting on a Vig claim

Insert face-palm pic here ….

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@Maggy: Just look at his posts and stop being nosy for fuk sake xD and stop calling me fail for the sake of it =.=

I’m not calling you fail for the sake of it. I highlighted exactly the glaring holes in his assumptions.

I'd have to agree with Fursy that it's odd for Espy to phrase it like that.

You agree that it is odd. Great. Are you honestly suggesting, as Furc is, that Espeonage specifically typed a sentence directly saying to his partner “Fate is good at catching us as scum” as opposed to using odd phrasing to say “Fate is good at catching scum for us”?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't want a fucking massclaim, idiot, I want 1 claim
learn to fucking read

I do know how to read. Do you? Here’s what you wrote

we have a doctor, a dead hooker, and

2 power roles that are ripe to be claimed

I took the liberty of bolding the portion where you indicate that there are 2 roles that are ripe to be claimed.

If that isn’t inferring you are wanting more than 1 claim I don’t know what does.

the MEDIC claiming?
interesting choice of words, where'd you get that term from?

From the Wiki that ReaperCharlie provided for the game. Link to be found in THE VERY FIRST POST of the game that you should have read if you were paying attention.

You and MoI are really getting on my fucking nerves this game, making me regress to FURC RAGE.

I don’t care if I get on your nerves. If you are going to continue to post in an illogical I’m going to call you on it.

I already tried to do scumhunting, and I only got ridiculed by trolls, so I will be keeping my mouth shut until we lynch LMP or MoI on policy of hindering town scumhunting.

Please show how I’m hindering Town scum-hunting.

Pointing out that you are just calling me scum isn’t hindering scum-hunting. It’s asking you to provide a coherent case as to why as opposed to posting conflicting tells and trying to waive it away with “whatever, you are scum”

Despite your aggrevating posting I'm not inclined to push you because frankly I don't see you as likely scum with the whole "Now you are trying to tie us as buddies" bit CMAR did with CooLDoG.

What do you think about the farside case?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Does anyone at this juncture want to counter-claim either Farside or Esp? Because if they are lying they are 100% caught scum.

UNVOTE: Farside until such time as a counter-claim occurs.

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And if anyone is a townie my evidence is pointing towards AGar. Whoever gave him the vest probably knows what he/she's doing...

Are you suggesting that someone passed the Vest to AGar Night 1? That would indicate that whoever passed it to him (and no-one has claimed such) would be the confirmed Town and AGar is not.

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I accidentally opened Andrius' bakery on my being vig.

So doc on me tonight and you may continue.

Yeah, that’s not crumbing that’s blatant claiming …

Why did you kill Matlh? I’d like you to explain in your own words.

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First off that comment that MOI posted saying I asked for a vig claim is complete shit. There is no post I did such.

This is correct. That should have been attributed to Shadow. When composing my post I screwed that up. I apologize for the mistake.

He calls me out for not saying anything about the Espy wagon. Doesn't explain why it's scummy not to say anything about a wagon that is dying.

I found it suspect because it was a major event in the game to that point. Scum have much more reason to avoid making comments that take positions. You don’t suggest whether you think the wagon was warranted or scum-driven or null.

Calls me out for not saying about about cooldog. This was a lie. I did mention something but was more focused on a growing wagon that seemed like a crazy Fate notion.

You keep repeating this mis-rep. It’s not fact. What I originally wrote in my accusation is the following –

Here she notes the case on CooLDoG in the first sentence but finds an excuse to go after Town over scum based on Malth’s posts. I agree that Malth’s post did not make much sense (which is why I questioned him) but CooLDoG’s statement and subsequent responses to questions were pure scum-leaks. Farside, at the point of her vote, shifted the wagon on stupid Town ahead of obv-Scum.

Note that Farside does not address the wagon on Espeonage at all and doesn't mention CooLDoG after the light suspicion in 78.

So, once again – I suspect you for your light acknowledgement of CooLDoG’s scumminess after which you move to a Townie as opposed to scum when you vote Malth over CooLDoG, and that you never mention the CooLDoG wagon AFTER this post.

Which is true. So please explain how I was lying. Please.

Why did farside mention that MOI was ignoring Gold scumminess and calling it newb?

BECAUSE GOLD NOT ONLY DID THE SAME THING BUT FOLLOWED FARSIDE.

Can I get you to please explain the all-caps in clearer English. What I think you are asserting is that Gold did the same things I suspect you for and later than you did them and thus I am not being consistent. This is untrue.

He certainly didn’t soft accuse CooLDoG of scummy behavior and then vote Town. His RVS vote sat on Shadow. True he makes no mention of CooLDoG. That’s not what I found suspicious of you.

I watched Fate last night because of how he was leading the lynch for CD and that alone is dangerous for scum to face. No one targeted him.

Assuming your claim isn’t fake this means Fate was not protected or targetted. He can't be the failed target of a missing kill but still could be the source of one.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also I'm only 2-shot which was why I was going to not shoot but then I figured that I will most probably be lynched fairly soon so I wanted to make sure I didn't waste any kills.

According the Wiki for the game you should be 3 shot.

@MOD – Is the Wiki accurate as far as the number of kills the Pyromaniac has?

Why would you consider No-shooting if you started out with the notion of playing scummy to evade a Nightkill? If that was your gameplan you should have from the start been planning to shoot immediately since actively playing scummy has been know to draw lynches to you (aka Wolframhart's Mafia).

In any event since you claim 2 shot with no Role-blocker about I think it best for you not to be protected. You can still get off your second shot (completing your role functionality) while the Doc / BP Vest are better used protecting more AGar / other claimed PRs.

I actually think it's more likely I get targetted by the SK kill and Agar got the scum kill.

Why do you think this is the more likely scenario than any other combinations that I outlined earlier?

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How do you know that his vote on Shadow is not voting for town? Why is my vote on someone that even you found scummy, considered scummy?

First I don’t know his vote on Shadow is Town. I only know your vote on Malth was on Town, and came at the point when it certainly could have tipped the balance away from a scum lynch. Had Malth not been killed I wouldn’t have been pressing it. But he was revealed Town so I am.

Do you not see how I could come to the conclusion that your vote, coming as it did with the comments you made, might very well be scum looking to shift momentum to scummy Town from scum? I don't have your foresight of knowing what your role PM said ...

You twisted the action I did as scum but even nonpoint was voting for malth.
There are people who did what I did in some way but you ignore completely and I see it as you being lazy scum then scum hunting town.

No, I observed the way you voted for Malth over CooLDoG. It read to me as scummy.

I did go back and look at NoPoint. He had malth as a RVS vote but ‘made it real’ in the post following your vote for Malth. He also doesn’t comment on CooLDoG at all until Day 2.

Good enough reason for my vote at this juncture …

VOTE: NoPoint

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True but I feel as though if the vest DID get passed, the guy who passed it knows he passed it to another Townie, otherwise he would keep it. You all are smart - you know what you're doing

This is the second time you’ve tried to downplay your own skills and abilities (bolded in this occasion via saying how smart everyone else is). I don’t particularly like when someone plays up their Newbie status, especially someone who has off-site experience.

[MagnaofIllusion]

This is what should happen:
AGar gives BP vest to Farside
Farside watches AGar
Doc is on Espeonage
Espeonage shoots scum

Someone let me know if there is something wrong with that overall picture

I have some thoughts in the back of my mind but they are very unlikely scenarios so they aren’t worth mentioning. Part of me just is nervous with some assumptions we are making that might be incorrect, just having witnessed a good plan fail simply due to a couple invalid assumptions.

@AGar

– do you have any objections to passing to Farside? Also, please confirm with RC that you can pass it tonight before we finalize this plan of action.

--

Because naturally SK knows I wasn't SK and also knows I wasn't appearing town. Thus omg he must be mafia so I'll kill him to help me win. That's why.

That’s a pretty stupid premise. With a Day 1 Mafia lynch any SK worth his salt should be deathly afraid of PoE as opposed to hunting scum who are already on the ropes. So unless you think the SK is a moron (which I admit is possible) the more likely option is that both the Mafia and SK went obv-Town hunting and got stopped by combination of BP Vest, Medic, or Town appearing SK.

--

I didn't comment on CD becuz the day ended before I could @@ I mean why would you not comment on CD claiming scum?

Bzzt. Incorrect chief. I’m not talking about CD’s direct claim of scum after he was already lynched. I’m talking about his scummy play before the wagon really kicked off on him (which it absolutely should have).

CooLDoG drops his “I’m pure scum” flag waving at 60.
Fate makes the appropriate “Kill it with fire” post at 72.
At 79 you make ZERO mention of CooLDoG or Fate’s comments at all. You are content to keep your vote parked on Town Malth (leaving him the leading Wagon at 3 votes after Farside’s vote at 78).

So your explanation here that the day ended before you had a chance to comment is 100% FACTUALLY INACCURATE. Nice attempt to laugh it away with a soft insult. You’ve upgraded your reactions since Blackest Night.

I’ll certainly throw a vote to LMP as he’s in the PoE pool currently but in the meantime I’ll continue to point out obv-scum NoPoint.

--

Gee Whiz! I'll join this time! although shouldn't we wait for one last excuse from him?

Vote: LMP

Oh look here comes another dreaded relational tell from MoI.

If LMP isn’t Trifecta then Gold absolutely is for Newbie-scum style bandwaggoning.

--

So your basing this on flips. That's a nice stawman. Hold people accountable for their vote after a flip, but ignore everyone on Gold since scum don't bus right?

If you are trying to say relationship based scum-hunting is the equivalent of a strawman argument then either you are being purposefully dense or are on the happy juice.

Not sure exactly what ‘ignoring everyone on Gold’ means in relation to scum-hunting. I have to look back but don’t remember CooLDoG voting for him.

I love how you keep ignoring my point completely.

And I love how you keep ignoring my points / questions also.

I’m done discussing this with you. You’ve already got you mind made up and despite your questionable play you are as confirmed Town as you can get. I’m not going to waste more time debating with you about your play.

Suspect me if you want … I’m happy at this juncture to let PoE win this thing and will take the rope if necessary as part of the process.

[MagnaofIllusion]

It also potentially wastes a watch...but with the upside of leaving a town alive, so...meh.

The importance of keeping a Confirmed VT alive (this is all in context of the plan) is due to PoE considerations.

At the start of today we have 11 alive. Working on the premise we aren’t making stupid assumptions we have 3 confirmed Town so there are 8 unconfirmed.

Of those 8 we have 2 Trifecta and 1 Evil Angel. We will be lynching from that pool today. Worst case we don’t hit scum so 7 players with 3 Non-Town factions.

The Mafia and Evil Angel have a tough decision. Attempting kill the 'confirmed' means they miss a kill, which they ostensibly don’t want to do so failing to kill by aiming at Farside or Esp or AGar isn’t usefull. That leaves them effectively Doc hunting in the pool of 5 unknowns for the Trifecta and 6 for Evil Angel.

Even with a mutli-kill on a single target / attempt on the Evil Angel by scum or Pyromaniac we are likely down to 5 unknowns after tonight. If the Doc is still alive they can claim and have a pool of 4 unknowns, worst case of which is 75% scum.

On the off chance both Non-Town factions want to play the waiting game things aren’t much better. Lynching will eliminate at least 1 from the pool, an eventual Doc claim eliminates another, and the Pyromanic gets two more shots at eliminating scum or identifying the Evil Angel who can by lynched.

If we don’t have bad assumptions Town is in a very good position following the plan.

Whether all participants want to actually follow the plan determines if the above is just idle speculation or not.

--

It should say ignore everyone that was on CoolDog because scum don't buss (sarcasm).
In other words your looking at those off the wagon is more suspicions to me. Scum buss all the time and that wagon on CD was an easy one for scum to float on. I find you saying hey you voted for confirm town at the end of the day, therefore scum weak analysis. Town is more ignorant then scum on who is what. Town are just as likely to question and vote ignorantly where scum do it on purpose.

Where do you ever see me advocating that everyone on the wagon is 100% Town? Nowhere. I fully understand scum bus. I’m not new at this.

Fact remains that scum also ignore partners when possible. The speed with which CooLDoG’s wagon grew means to me it is likely that at most 1 partner bussed him. So I find it is more effective to focus my energy on the smaller pool of suspects and scum hunt as I see fit. In this case I was directly looking for behavior that ignored / softly commented on the Confirmed scum while pushing on the Dead Town.

--

@Esp

- Shoot whoever you feel has the greatest chance of being scum. Input from everyone is usefull but in the end you should make the decision you feel strongest about. If your kill fails at Night you should be identifying your target first thing tomorrow.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh look Fate's decided to be cute ...

Since the Evil Angel decided to hit NoPoint last Night I assume they were Mafia hunting ... good instinct. Sad that NoPoint is always naturally scummy.

Farside - did your plan bear fruit?

Esp - have anything to say about Fate's claim today?

I'll crunch numbers in the morning regarding whether it looks wise for a Doc to claim.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Are you high? Nopoint was obvtown.

I've been letting you slide for old time's sake, but we can lynch the hell out of YOU instead MoI

No LMP was ObvTown but I forget that you don't care about lynching Town as long as you get the glory in the end.

At this juncture I'm happy to take the rope if those who actually want to use their thinking cap think it will help the PoE process.

Then again maybe we should just string you up to prevent a repeat of recent games.

I think I'll wait for actual Town reads of mine to comment.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Are you going to give reads and, idk, HUNT for scum or play this "woe as me, just lynch me if it helps with poe" scumbaggery?

No ones going to fall for it.

You seem to have me confused for someone cowed by you Fate.

If you were reading the game you've seen that I've been giving reads. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good Fate-style ramble though.

And if you think you are ever a Town read of mine it makes me chuckle.

As I said I will give an analysis in the morning. Until then feel free to wander around throwing your suspicion this way and that.

And I'll leave the pointless fake-claiming to you. That's what you do best, right?

[MagnaofIllusion]

So now the claims have fully come in –

The situation (barring a counter-claim to Doc from Stefunny or Gummi which I don’t expect) –

– MagnaofIllusion
– Stefunny
– farside22 – Insomniac
– AGar – Confirmed VT
– ShadowGuru - Paramedic
– Fate
– GummyBear – Confirmed Non-Framer
– Espeonage - Pyromaniac
– Gold – Serial Killer

So the set-up for PoE endgaming is

–

4 Confirmed vrs SK – Non-Framer – 2 Scum – 1 VT

I’m going to approach this in a worst case scenario fashion – no Nightkills are stopped and Esp whiffs on his NK.

Lynch Gold – 4 Confirmed vrs Non-Framer – 2 Scum – 1 VT
Nightkills (Esp shoots VT, Scum NK confirmed) – 3 Confirmed vrs Non-Framer – 2 Scum

In that situation worst case one of the two remaining non-confirmed HAS to be scum. So it is a 50% shot worst case scenario (no new Insomniac information).

I’m going to suggest the following course of action

–

Farside gives the vest to Shadow
Shadow protects Farside

Keeping the Cop and Doc around is much more effective than keeping Esp safe since he will be out of shots tonight.

Farside watches either AGar or Esp

Scum have to kill in the confirmed group or there is ZERO chance they can win via PoE. This gives Farside a good shot to catch the killer unless they no-kill to drag it out.

Esp shoots any of the non-confirmed who are not Gummi-Bear (Stefunny, Fate, myself)

I’d prefer he shoots Fate (see reasons below) as it assures PoE victory.

--

I’m stating for the record here so I can brag post-game

–

Fate is the Godfather

.

His behavior fits the profile –

‘Fake’ claiming SK to keep the Pyromaniac off his back.

Bussing a player he considers stupid into oblivion Day 1 for Town cred.

Questioning how Farside’s ability worked immediately after her claim (to better plan how to structure Night actions to protect himself)

Attacking AGar Day 2 immediately out of the gate (for voting Esp while ignoring that LMP and myself did the same) – hoping to eliminate the target scum failed to kill

Going into “Apologetic” Fate today – keeping on the confirmed player’s good-side.

Voting Stef right out of the block today (bussing before Esp even confirmed who the SK is)

[MagnaofIllusion]

Almost forgot -

Mod - I'll be V/LA til Monday due to a busy weekend schedule (including a wedding).

[MagnaofIllusion]

Couple flaws in your failcase there scumbag.

1. Fakeclaiming SK means...oh yeah I'm NOT SK. Which makes me a decent vig target bc I'm screwin around as a VT (since shadow did another BRILLIANT early claim)

2. Like I said I woulda bussed CDog yeah. But how would bussing him draw an INVESTIGATION? As you saw it drew a watch on me.

3. I wanted to know if she could watch every night, which would've allowed doc+watch ultimate breakage. Nice twist though

4. So... what's the logic again of pushing a lynch on CONFIRMED TOWN who could claim as scuh? Mafia wouldn't touch AGar knowingtheir kill failed on him, in fact let me iso you right now bc i u made a post with inside info

1. Yeah, nice WIFOM dodge. Fake-claiming SK makes you a good Vig target? Nope, not at all. Vig has a limited supply of shots. Early on it is better for a smart Vig to go for other potential scum who aren’t NK immune. A confirmation of the SK would be better later as the Serial Killer lynched before MYLO.

2. I never said bussing him would draw an investigation. Nice straw-man there. I said t it would draw “Town Cred”. It’s clear, however, that you didn’t read the Insomniac role very carefully as evidenced by the following quote from you –

Reading the Wiki... I need yout to explain more about your role Farside. Its a Cop/Watcher? So why did you only watch me and not cop me? Do you get a choice? Or is it random?

So you probably just assumed it was a normal Cop and hoped to draw and investigation based on your rep of bussing lame partners. Nice way to try to redirect the conversation, GodFater.

3. Dodge, parry, roll …. your quote at 252 doesn’t read like you were looking for breakage. Note the line

“So why did you only watch me and not cop me?”

– dead giveaway of your motivations.

4. Because you are ballsy enough to try it. Don’t play logic games with me Fate. You’ll do whatever you want as scum and then say “Why would scum do this”. I appreciate your heavy use of WIFOM in a ReaperCharlie.

I get it Fate

– you hate that I’ve pegged you and are looking for any little angle. I’m still gloating in postgame when I’m correct and you are wrong.

[MagnaofIllusion]

It didn't need to be pointed out that Fate and MoI are the only possibilities for GF.

Um are you forgetting Stefunny?

--

First mention of the Godfather! Lil self conscious are why?

This also reminds me of why you're bussing theory fails:
I took Espeon OFF L-1, tolf him NOT to claim, and got scum lynched, Bet that pissed you a good deal eh GF?

So now you are content to find individual lines and attempt to smear me up? Classic scum Fate.

As for the second part – that’s not evidence you aren’t the Godfather but reinforcement that you planned the Bus. Because, WIFOM again, why would any Godfather take a then unclaimed Town player off L-1 and bus their partner? So you could make that argument right now.

[MagnaofIllusion]

ALSO you haven't mentioned Stefunny all game. You could be less obv about who your buddies are...and tip: When calling me scum for "braggging rights" it looks more geniune if you try and come up with a fake partner for me.

Tldr: LOLMOISCUM

Funny, your only mentions of Stefunny are late Day 2 when you ask for her to be vigged out of the blue and your quick Day 3 vote here.

If I had to guess – second round of bussing for more Town Cred?

So I’ll wait til post-game to rub in your face that I’m right.

[MagnaofIllusion]

YOU are the one whos still laughably trying to push Espeon's lynch post that fact (d2) and mine (today)

I am so confident this game has been won for town, that I can say without a fraction of a doubt:
If we are in 3p LyLo and I am alive, lynch me for being an ultimate busser. This will not happen because we win long before then, but if it makes you feel bet\ter about me not being the godfather, that's my promise.

So there, I CANT win as scum, MoI. Balls in your court, you COULD start your post-game whining about your scumbuddies and night actions and the set-up NOW you know...

Lol - I'm not scum so nothing for me to rant about Postgame.

1. I can't be pushing for your lynch today since I believe Gold is already hammered. DERP. I'm pushing for your lynch tomorrow since I think you are the Scum Godfather.

2. You do realize that the game doesn't have to go to 3P LYLO for Town to lose, right? Kill on confirmed that Farside doesn't catch, Vig on VT and it comes down to 3 Confirmeds versus you, GB and Stefunny. A mislynch there and successful NK and Town loses. Nice pointless posturing though.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Um, are you forgetting you're trying to PAINT me as the godfather to "be able to brag post game?" But ok, CONTINUE to not give reads on anyone other than me with this insane theory. Your PARTNER isn't going to win this game either by you ignoring them.

So if you're REALLY town MoI, and REALLY think I'm scum GF, then fine. I already promised I won't be able to win this game by surviving to 3p lylo.

Now who's my buddy? Why don't you actually "scumhunt" Stefunny and GB? Your "full game analysis" post you promised was basically: "FATE IS GODFATHERLOLOLOL AND ANYTHING HE SAYS IS JUST WIFOM. DO NOT USE LOGIC TO CLEAR HIM, HE IS SCUM NO MATTER WHAT!"

I love this. The difference between you and me Fate - I know I can be wrong.

I think you are the Godfather and have laid out the scenario.

Obviously based on Farside's scan Stefunny would have to be your partner if I am right. Duh, that's the only logical conclusion.

Then again I could be wrong and GB or Stefunny could be the Godfather.

In the case I'm wrong I'll take solace in the fact your are dead wrong about me, as usual.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So yeah, its either you're town playing like suck and GB is godfather, OR you're the GF and I'm right like I was right D1, right about Espeon and nopoint D2, right about Stefunny (who as you mention is scum either way given GB's innocent).

You seem to have me confused with someone who really cares about your opinion of my play.

But once again you are wrong about me (like you have been in EVERY game we play together, I might add).

[MagnaofIllusion]

Since we are just waiting around for Night now the AGar hammered ..

To address Fate's 'lolz youz suck as Town but are scumz' bury someone by spamming posts -

I know I'm a plain old Citizen. From my perspective scum could be in only come in the following combinations (baring again a counterclaim on Shadow) -

1. Fate (Godfather) and Stefunny (Framer) - Yes, yes I know 'grr rage I called Stefunny scummy once at the end of Day 2 and voted right out of the gate today'. Doesn't convince me in the least about your alignment. And I know you think CooLDoG's day 1 (Fate and Esp) are Town doesn't clear you. He's not as stupid

2. GB (Godfather) and Fate / Stefunny (Framer) - Fate is an unlikely Framer based on play but I'm not ruling it out 100%. Sorry, call me a wet blanket.

3. Stefunny (Godfather) and Fate (Framer) - Most unlikely of the bunch.

Yes, at the end of the Day Stefunny does make the most logical shot if you are looking to hit a likely framer.

Hitting the Godfather, on the other hand, puts GB as Confirmed Town and locks up PoE for an assured Town win regardless what else happens (aside from total Town incompetance).

TL : DR - Yeah, I'm stating I'm a mis-vig / mis-lynch. Deal with it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Its five to lynch, but I don't expect you to pay attention to the game since you lost awhile ago.

ITT Fate continues to have no clue ...

Sad the grand and vaunted Fate can't read me (see what I did there?)

[MagnaofIllusion]

GG scum, you now are officially boned. You can’t win

Lynch us all in any order you want .. Town victory locked up.

--

IF SHADOWGURU HADNT LOLHAMMERED LMP BEFORE I COULD SWITCH THE LYNCH ONTO STEFUNNY, THIS WOULDA BEEN A CLEAN FUCKING SWEEP.

Look, more revisionist history from scum-Fate. Let’s look again at the sequence of events.

At 305 Fate calls for Hammering Time on LMP.
At 306 out of the blue he calls for Steph to be vigged.
Shadow finally hammers at 318. Yet Fate posted between 306 and 318. He had every chance to change his vote based on his read.

Lulz. It’s funny that you don’t expect people to even look things up Fate. You tried to buy more ‘Town” cred by soft-bussing another partner.

You’re busted scum. Keep lying if you want because YOU CAN’T WIN!!

AH WELL, IT WAS A SWEEP FOR MY READS AT LEAST.

Nice false bravado – when you get lynched (be it today or tomorrow or LYLO) I’m going to be laughing my head off as I tick of a Town victory and you lose yet another game.

I guess it is easy to have correct reads on 2/3 of the scum when you are their partner

You self-vote today, if the game isn't over, I self-vote tomorrow.

Nice scum-claim, Fate-scum. Why would you as Town self-vote tomorrow when there is another possible Godfather in Gummibear? If you really were Town and when my lynch didn’t end the game you should be wanting to lynch Gummi.

VOTE: Fate

I’m voting for the scum. If I get lynched I get lynched. Town still wins. And I still get to lord it over Fate I nailed him post-game.

--

I'm putting this out here in case MOI is not scum

I’m not. But it really doesn’t matter since Scum was STUPID enough to try to kill a protected person or just no-killed.

I thought MOI was on vacation?

Um, what?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I called for hammerin on LMP, I suppose I did.

But I WOULDVE unvoted if he had actually posted some fuckin content.

Anyway I voted Stefunny out of the gate full on D3, and basically is the reason she was outed as scum.

Translation – Oops, my ranting doesn’t actually match up with reality.

Please continue to try to justify your out-of-the blue Vig call as anything but bussing.

I also note that you completely dodge the issue of you self-voting with Gummi as possible Godfather suspect if you were Town. Caught scum is caught.

ALSO, I've already promised to self-vote tomorrow if you flip town. Why wouldn't you just self-vote to speed up my humiliation and your own "gloating?"

So what? I predict if I am indeed lynched instead of scum-you today you will not self-vote tomorrow.

I don’t see any reason to self-vote as it is against my Town win-con. I know I’m not the Godfather. It’s not as if there are a lack of players who can vote for me. I’m not preventing a lynch.

But keep trying to ‘taunt’ me into self-voting Town. Why? It's not like you can win the game or get me to 'bow' to your will.

Oh, tis because you DONT want me to be able to gloat post game and say "HAH I GOT SCUM TO SELF-VOTE."

I mean your pride is ALREADY going to be shit in a handbasket after it is revealed to the site that I nailed your entire scumteam one after another, in rapid sucession.

You will NO LONGER be able to fall back on "Fate is either bussing and right, or town and stupidly wrong." I'll just point to this game, where I caught you all, and say "HAH. AS YOU WERE SAYING MOI?"

It will be beautiful. BEAUTIFUL.

Typical Fate – filling the thread with pointless bravado.

I’m just waiting for Town to either wise up and hang your scummy self or lynch me so I can sit in the dead QT laughing at you the whole time.

Tick Tock scum-Fate

… no matter how you rant and rave time is NOT on your side. Town has an unbreakable PoE. See you continue to rant and rave about how you are right when you know you aren’t is so enjoyable.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You see how the votes are today, CLEARLY my play is superior to yours to avoid the lynch.

There's no use arguing or fighting, scum has lose.

So self-vote since you're the lynch of the day.

Yawn ....

Nope. Sorry - not going to. Play to Win. I vote to hang scum not accelerate the day with my mislynch. Just because I get a win as Town doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying to get obv-Godfather scum lynched.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Good luck Town.

Remember ... don't let Fate attempt to squirm out of being PoEd into oblivion tommorow or the day after.

He's scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

It's obviously Gummy Bear, but K WHATEVER YOU SAY

*cackles*

Yeah, lynching players you know aren't scum is typical Fate play, regardless of whether you are Town or Scum

Town - Lynch Fate tommorow and win the game.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Good game Town ....

RC great flavor as always. I'd like to see the Night actions when you get a chance.