Mini 1137: Long Overdue Mafia [Game Over!]

[pappums rat]

/confirm

so who else likes black metal?

[pappums rat]

everyone has confirmed except one person, can we start the game now? please?

[pappums rat]

yay

vote idiotking

with a name like that i doubt we will help town much.

[pappums rat]

unvote
vote voidedmafia

not joining rvs is scummy.

1. whenever i get a chance.
2. i believe that gut trumps 'logic' and 'reasoning' p much all the time, as they both are highly overrated. i fly by the seat of my pants 24/7. im a fucking rogue.

[pappums rat]

hey voidedmafia have you ever played as scum before this game?

[pappums rat]

well folks i am a one-shot day cop, and i just investigated voidedmafia and got a 'guilty' result back. this is a normal so my sanity is guaranteed (as my pm told me as well). no quicklynch please, as there is still plenty of time to talk and figure out who his scumbuddies are.

[pappums rat]

unvote

only because i dont want anyone hammering yet. we can still milk this day for more scum. more coming very shortly.

[pappums rat]

Rather quick with that reveal, aren't you? Maybe YOU'RE worried about your scumbuddy instead?

But then, that raises the question: Why go after me, then, since I haven't really tried to go after you?

...wait...YOU DON'T SAY WHAT YOUR PM TELLS YOU, YOU IDIOT.

what 'scumbuddy' are you talking about?
what does

'Why go after me, then, since I haven't really tried to go after you?'

mean? shouldnt i go after whoever came up as scum in my investigation?

quoting

a pm is against the rules, not paraphrasing.

My point is that there's absolutely no reason to claim such a role now, which makes me wonder why he didi it. The first question that came to mind was if HE was trying to get protection for scumbuddies. I don't know if it's true, though, but it's the first question that came to me.

All in all, this is a VERY suspicious post that pappums has made.

there is a reason to claim, i have irrefutable proof that you are scum. (i used my one-shot early because i had a very good gut feeling that voidedmafia was scum).
why is my post suspicious? does it make sense for scum to make this kind of insane play, especially against a new player?
why would scum do something like this to ease pressure off of their buddies?

Honestly, this sounds more like Rat just picked a random target and then just decided to give him a guilty verdict.

However, I believe that in this kind of game there can also be naive or insane or paranoid cops, which would make his claim practically useless otherwise.

The one big overhanding question, though, is this: Why the hell didya pick me? Don't like the fact that I'm not really participating? Still ticked off that I didn't participate in RVS?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_game

'Roles which are explicitly Non-Normal include:
Non-Sane Cops, Blanks/Quacks, Janitor, Survivor, Lyncher, Cultist, Jester, Scum Masons, Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector.'

eod.

And right now I'm just focusing more on proving that rat's claim is false and stupid without getting myself lynched in the process. If I escape this particular hole, I'd be glad to start scumhunting again.
[/quote

why do you say my claim is stupid? you cant prove my claim is false because my role is allowed in normal games.

voided mafia, it would be wise to claim now

Andrew, it would be wise to start participating more.

Anyways, I claim Neighbor. 'Course, since we're still not N1 yet, I haven't picked anyone, but yeah.

what do you mean 'i havent picked anyone'? neighbors dont pick who they want to be neighbors with, they are assigned a person at the beginning of the game.

[pappums rat]

i am fairly sure havingfitz is a scumbuddy of vm's. these posts are just terrible:

I agree that pappum's claim was very premature. Assuming he is telling the truth (which I believe he is) it is coming so early in the day that Voided's scum buddies will not do anything to link themselves to him. So we have essentially lost the ability to gather potentially good interations between scum partners. Best thing to do IMO is to just eliminate Voided and if by some chance pappums is not being truthful...lynch him. I would think everything else from this point on with respect to Voided is going to be WIFOM.

VOTE: Voidedmafia

How are other scum going to be pressured? Are they at risk of being lynched today?

If they aren't at risk of being lynched today all your "pressuring" is going to serve to do is to allow the remaining scum (assuming Void is in fact scum) to intelligently manipulate who they NK based on what type of pressure to do or do not recieve. Ex....we all mistakenly focus on a townie and "pressure" him. Then we lynch Void...and scum NK's one of the pressured townies main opponents. That sets up the townies mislynch tomorrow. I'm sure scum could equally come up with a beneficial way of selecting their nk as well if the pressure was appropriately placed (ie on scum). The concept is the same as voting for a no lynch without any discussion when that is deemed the right move. IMO the right move now is to prove out pappum's investigation result.

tl:dr;

If we have identified scum it is in town's best interest to eliminate asap vs letting scum manipulate or assess town. At this early stage of the game scum may not have the best idea who is the most obvtown or most dangerous town to keep alive.

wanting the day to end early is anti-town, and this sort of thing is exactly what i was hoping for with extending the day past just lynching vm. your desire to get to night early shows that you dont want town doing what they do (discussing and coming to conclusions about who is scum). your reason for wanting night to come early is illogical at best, and scum-motivated at worst.

This looks more like a gambit to me than the alternative options (pappums scum lying, pappums town telling the truth). I know some people like to cop hard to read roles or VI's, so his target would make sense but I think it would make more sense to hold off on using a one shot power in case someone else becomes even more hard to read after 10, 15 pages.

If this isn't a gambit then naturally I think pappums would be telling the truth. Scum wouldn't want to create a "me or him situation" when it would be easy to lynch both. As scum he would have at least given himself an out. So if this isn't a lynch, voided is scum and pappums town.

Though it is also a good idea to keep talking and think how scum would react in these different scenarios, after everyone has reacted of course. I have a few ideas based on other games.

i see this as anti-town. if you believed my claim to be a gambit, you should have let it take it's course to see what sort of blunders the scumteam would make. i see this as tipping your scumbuddies off to keep their mouth's shut and not do anything incriminating.



and for the record vm, the pm explicitly stated that i am sane.

once again, no one hammer vm. if you do without us all discussing this in full, you will have earned the title of 'honorary scum' in my book if you are town.

p. edit: mason is town, neighbors are unconfirmed.

[pappums rat]

xalxe, we are not lynching him yet because there is still much to be gleaned from what people can still put into this day.

not quicklynching voidedmafia has allowed me to get a number of town- and scumreads, and i hope it has done the same for other people as well.

i did an

exhausting

(lol) re-read of the game, and i am definately not liking havingfitz' call for a policy lynch on andrew. if andrew had been actively doing anti-town things and was being a menace, then i probably would have went along with it, as i agree with pl's a good deal of the time. but when it was based solely on meta, i dont think so. combined with his rush to get this day over, he is my #2 scumread atm.

i didnt think this post by xalxe was really necessary:

I agree with Cecily. I think this claim has put us in a weird position, but there are really only a few options today.

Option 1: Lynch voidedmafia today

If he's scum, pappums is both clear and an obv nightkill target.
If he's town, pappums is the D2 lynch.

Option 2: Lynch pappums rat today

If he's scum, voided is most likely town, unless this is a fucking brilliant gambit.
If he's town one-shot cop, voided is mafia.
If he's vanilla town, he's a moron.

Option 3: Lynch somebody else scummy

If pappums is legit one-shot cop and voided is mafia, scum have to keep him alive or out voided as mafia.
If both are town, pappums dies, voided is mislynched.
If both are scum...???

To me, the best plan appears to be a voided lynch, as we're more likely to catch scums. VOTE: voidedmafia

i dont see why lynching me was ever really an option.

i can see where jahudo is coming from with his reasoning for him saying he thought my claim was a gambit.

what i really want to know is:

what does everyone think of voidedmafia's defense of himself?

[pappums rat]

all right then, i guess its time to come clean. this was indeed a gambit, and it did exactly what i had intended. i am ready to accept your scorn and loathing, as i did decieve the town, but with true intentions. if i had taken back the gambit too soon we wouldnt have gotten some of the reactions that we did. i am disappointed at the lack of participation, though. now that that's out of the way, we can now discuss vm's reaction and others' reactions to this as well. vm really came off bad right after i had declared him to be scum, but imo he improved his standing a bit with his later posts. i can see how, as a newer player, he could think that cop-variants would be allowed in the game, and i think it is possible that he read his role wrong, though he easily could have read that neighborizer is a role off the link i gave about normal games and corrected his scumgaff after he read more about the roles. his first post after i claimed he was scum, though, really looks bad to me. it reads as corned scum that got angry he had been found out.

once again, im sorry that i lied to you, but the game wasnt moving and i had a really good feeling that vm was scum. i was tempted to leave it in play until after vm was dead and day 2 had started, but if he did indeed flip town, that would probably mean 2 mislynches in 2 days, which is certainly a terrible way to start the game. i thought it was best to let the town discuss this with the knowledge that it was a gambit.

[pappums rat]

not really, i still think it is pretty likely you are scum. in fact,

vote voidedmafia

[pappums rat]

i would like to clear it up for everyone that this was a gambit, as i have stated already, since cecily thinks it was a joke. a gambit is meant to do something specific, such as in this case gauge peoples' responses to there being a confirmed guilty. i didnt do this for shits and giggles. i did it

in an attempt at scumhunting

, not to divert scumhunting, as havingfitz accused me of.

that being said, i definately like the way this is going. i would like everyone to note havingfitz' repeated use of the words 'liar' and 'lying' and his clear attempt at rolefishing me. his first post-gambit post was especially telling i think, given all the fake emotion behind it. someone who has been here as long as he has should know the difference between a base lie and a gambit, and for him to keep pushing the word 'lie' the way he has done is scummy. he is clearly trying to misrep me here, and his rolefishing is just plain

bad

. why in the hell should i tell you my role, eh? and i never forced vm to claim, he only claimed after andrew asked him to. he should have only claimed if someone had expressed intent to hammer.

i am very disappointed that people have abandoned talking about vm's responses. vm's responses are still just as valid as if i hadnt gambited, and they need to be examined, as well as everyone else's responses.

i would also like to point out that no one has claimed that i am cleared, cecily just said that to her, i am, and then she said in that same post that she wasnt so sure after all. i am not cleared by any means.

p. edit:

So you don’t agree with LAL in mafia…but you state in your ISO 11 that you don’t like his lying. Then in the quote directly above, you don’t want to lynch him for lying…but you DO want to lynch him on the basis of what COULD have happened because of his lying. Wha? That makes no sense to me. So not the act itself but the potential outcome of the act. Sounds like you want to steer clear of perceived policy lynching but you still like being on the liar’s wagon.

this makes perfect sense. he dosent want to vote me based on a 'lie', but would vote me based on the danger of a mislynch that was an effect of that 'lie'.

and note the namecallling 'liar' once again.

[pappums rat]

@fitz

I WAS V/LA

andrew and pappaums are VIs

and you enjoy intercourse with aardvarks. start contributing please, or replace out.

And you may condone lying and misleading town but I do not. Lynching liars IMO is a safe bet.

lololol. lal is a 'safe bet' eh? that is probably the stupidest thing i have ever heard. if someone lies with proper intentions (aka a gambit) then your dumbass policy doesnt mean jack shit. your love of policy lynches when there is no good reason for them is scummy, you want to just lynch people for supposedly being vi's (andrew) and for gambiting (me) without really talking and actually scumhunting. it isnt like i said one thing earlier in the game and then contradicted myself later (which i think is the proper basis for lal), i used a gambit and then came clean with it.

unvote
vote havingfitz

p.s. while i was typing that up i thought that it may be the case that jerbs was trying to send a message with that post i quoted, as in, 'stfu about them, you are looking bad'.

[pappums rat]

these last several posts by neil feel like distancing to me.

and now that i think on it more, his vote on me doesnt really make much sense. he is voting me because of the possibility that vm could have been mislynched while my gambit was still in play, but that possibility would have been there whether i was town or scum.

also, the 'aardvark' comment was out of line. sorry about that.

[pappums rat]

I see no point of joining a flame war.

Took a look at mikemike's iso and found...fluff. then content

He answers question and post fluff from 0-5
post 6 is agreeing with 2 people and saying policy lynch is scummy
post 7 is saying policy lynch is bad
post 8 is pointing out the obvious
The rest is mostly content tho

I approve of a paupams lynch because his lying could have caused a mislynch and I'm a supporter of LAL

yes, my gambit could have caused a mislynch, but i took measures in an attempt to prevent that from happening. why do you think gambits are a basis for lal?

im pretty sure there are no non sane cops in mini normals>>

vote pappums

he revealed its a gambit now cos there is no no no no non sane cops

i said that there are no non-sane cops in mini normals while the gambit was still in play. so why do you think i retracted my gambit because of that fact?

Why waste everyone's time looking for scumbuddies (who should not be stupid enough to link themselves to Voided) with what could be assumed to be an honest claim & result?

they wouldnt be linking themselves to voidedmafia, the goal was to judge people's reactions to the gambit.

Not sure that describes any of my posts to neil but definitely think the term troll could apply to neil...and pappums rat for that matter.

lol im not even going to dignify that with a response... although i guess i kind of did, but w/e. the simple fact is that havingfitz and jerbs started with the personal attacks and i got pissed and joined in. but that is over now, so lets just move on from it.

[pappums rat]

Remind me where I made a personal attack on you pappum...

every time you have said i lied or called me a liar. i made it clear that this was a gambit, and i took every opportunity i could to ensure that vm would not get lynched, right from the very first post of the gambit.

your gambit didn't accomplish much tho

wow! zomg! that makes me scum, doesnt it?! (obviously i disagree that the gambit didnt accomplish much, as we have a lot of reactions to analyze)

@ pappums, you retracted it because you had to.
if we lynched voided and he flipped town, there are no excuses for your 'fail'.
thus, you would have been lynched the next day.

not wishing for a 1 1 tradeoff, you decided to cancel the gambit.
its that simple.

i made it explicitly clear that i did not want him lynched, and even unvoted him when he was at l-1 to ensure someone would not hammer him. the whole point of this was to gauge people's reactions to having 'confirmed scum' and what sort of action they would take because of it.



all right then, i am done talking about the gambit, if anyone tries to flamebait me again into explaining it (which i have done in detail) i am just going to ignore them. the results of the gambit speak for themselves, and i am voting accordingly.

[pappums rat]

all right folks, here's the dealy-o. to believe that i am scum, you would have to believe that scum would be willing to pull a suicidal move like that

and

at the same time repeatedly tell people not to mislynch

and

tell everyone your pm said you were sane (giving you no option to claim that your sanity was not assured after the supposed vm townflip). to believe havingfitz is scum, you would need to believe scum would want to policy lynch someone who he claims is a vi, thereby bringing about a shorter day without any real scumhunting (which is good for scum)

and

endorse quicklynching vm after a suspicious early day one claim without scumhunting (once again, good for scum)

and

endorse lynching someone for using a gambit under the pretense of lynch all liars without scumhunting (are we seeing a trend, here?).

the whole point of my gambit was to see the reactions people would have to there being a confirmed scum cornered, and then after the gambit was lifted people could scumhunt by looking for suspicious reactions. havingfitz has made every attempt to make this day shorter than it should be, which is antitown and scummy. the fact is that havingfitz has done no real scumhunting at all, and has been avoiding doing so all day. obvscum is obvious. moar votes plz.

[pappums rat]

i have seen plenty of townies say they want to lynch new replacements in a number of games, so this is null.

lol @ neil's request for someone to change his mind about my wagon, read the thread and make up your own mind.

also lol @ yet another person who supports lal.

havingfitz is still obvscum.

[pappums rat]

^^ flailing scum.

and i have either already answered the questions in your impossible to read wall posts or they are completely worthless questions to be answering in the first place.

[pappums rat]

fuck you

i dont need walls to convey what i am trying to say. all your walls do is add alot of rehashed bullshit to make it seem like you have more to say than you do.

[pappums rat]

lulz hardcore @ fitz telling me to contribute more. slapping together wallposts with already used material and omgus'ing 3 people on your wagon is really contributing, isnt it? lololol.

fitz, in one sentence please tell me why you think ik is scum.

[pappums rat]

i have never said that i, in any way, was cleared from being scum. (i even said that previously in a post when people were saying that i was trying to clear myself). what i was doing in that post was trying to make people question whether scum was more likely to take the course of actions that i did or that fitz did. yeah, wifom, blah blah blah blah blah.

i havent been as active in this game or any other for that matter because i have a lot of shit going on atm, and have replaced out of several that i was in just recently. the only reason i am still in this one is because havingfitz is still alive.

at all the people who keep going 'lal is so awesome, bahahaha!': do you think gambits are the basis for lal, and why is gambiting scummy?

[pappums rat]

if any one has questions for me, please put them in a clearly visible sentence with spaces on either side of it so i can see that its a question and i will reply. i am not going to go wading through convoluted wall posts just to answer questions that will get me no closer to killing scum.

@mikemike...pappums lie is only part of the reason he has my vote. Are there people who are voting him simply based on his lie? Are you voting me based on that assumption?

what else are you voting me based on?

Gambiting isn't scummy when it's on D4 to protect a power role or to get known scum lynched. Done on D1 in order to get someone who (at the time) was a total null read is remarkably scummy.

lol. vm wasnt a 'total null read' for me, if you had read the thread you would have known that.

Mike: Nothing scummy outside the gambit? Pay attention.

like what?

[pappums rat]

also, people have seemingly been having a hard time making up their minds on whether they are voting me based on lal or whether there is something inherently scummy about gambiting. i have already discussed the proper context for lal, and gambiting in and of itself is null. i have never once said that i am more likely to be town based on this gambit. no one has given me any other reason for why they think im scum other than that i LIED and some hilarious bullshit about my angry 'fuck you' post.

[pappums rat]

HEY VOIDEDMAFIA DONT FUCKING ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT ARE NOT FOR YOU.

I strongly disagree with ANY lynches based solely on policy in a game this size. We don't have the people to spare. Even Andrew.

That said, if there IS a policy reason to add to someone's crimes against the Town, as with PR's case, that's fine.

what 'crimes against the town' are you speaking of? btw my former question still stands: what was scummy outside of the gambit?

@pappums again. Did someone say you thought you were cleared because of your lie? Also,

the only reason i am still in this one is because havingfitz is still alive.

So if I'm lynched you're going to replace out? That's nice...I assume you just want to stick around to make some assinine comment if I am today's lynch and then you'll bail (since I would no longer be in the game).

1. people were alluding to such after cecily said i was basically cleared.
2. no i am not.

my question to you still stands.

top scumreads: havingfitz, neil, voidedmafia.

@ mod: do modkills end the day?

[pappums rat]

lol dipshit i have already said why i had found them scummy BEFORE they voted me.

one thing that i did not explain completely is that your vote for me and blasting of havingfitz is basically the old 'hos scumbuddy vote townie' fallacy.

[pappums rat]

I wouldn't support a pl on andrew at this point. IMO there are at least three stronger candidates for a lynch. He is playing the way he always plays (hence my initial pl question) but not now.

pappums...whatever your question is I have already answered it in my earlier posts and I believe at least one other owner has mentioned/quoted it. You might actually have to look.

oh look, fitz doesnt want to answer questions for the same reason i didnt. lol.

lol dipshit i have already said why i had found them scummy BEFORE they voted me.

one thing that i did not explain completely is that your vote for me and blasting of havingfitz is basically the old 'hos scumbuddy vote townie' fallacy.

So ignoring your obvious failure of a defense to my accusation...

OMGUS anyone? It's not a FOS (what on earth is a HOS? Hall Of Shame?) and vote townie, considering well, I've already acknowledged I'd lynch him if thats where the town is going. I'm just not comfortable with it. It's called "choosing the scummier person and voting for them" and this my friend, is how you play Mafia. Which judging by your horrible defense, you don't know much about.

and what 'horrible defense' are you talking about?

Oh haha I forgot, there's also one VERY wrong thing about the "Lynch Scumbuddy and vote Townie" fallacy you accuse me of...

YOU ARE NOT TOWN. Or rather, you're Anti-Town. So Scum or not, you're playing to the scum win condition which to me, shows I have no desire to keep you in the game if you're going to keep going against the town like this. We can't win if you pull crap like this out. So town alignment or not, you're scum.

nice flail there, bro. that is one of the most pathetic posts i have ever seen. WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF CRAP AM I PULLING EXACTLY? in reality this reads very much like vm's post right after the gambit was made (i.e., scum that got pissed and freaked out that i busted them).

HEY VOIDEDMAFIA DONT FUCKING ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT ARE NOT FOR YOU.

Long answer: no way.
short answer: no.

Don't want me to? Too bad, you'll have to make me, and you can't do that.

lol. stupid fucking petulant child. if you are indeed town you will look back at this game with a great deal of shame once you actually know how to play mafia.

[pappums rat]

oh yeah, and please get in here bub, we need a new voice.

[pappums rat]

lol gambiting is not scummy, you stupid bastard. its not my fault a good number of the town is comprised of noobs and fucktards, and the scum can just blend in with these idiots. you would be pissed too if you had to deal with the bullshit i have to this game. i mean seriously, there have been people accusing me of being scum because i said 'fuck you' to fitz. that is fucking retarded.

oh yeah, and there are still questions for you to ask.

p. edit: OH YEAH, INSULTING PEOPLE IS REALLY 'CRIMES AGAINST THE TOWN'. THE PEOPLE I AM RAGING AGAINST FUCKING DESERVE IT BECAUSE THEY ARE EITHER SCUM OR ARE COMPLETE FUCKING IDIOTS. FUCKING ANGER IS NOT TOWN OR SCUM RELATED BRO, ITS FUCKING NULL, JUST LIKE GAMBITING.

AND YOU DONT FUCKING ANSWER OTHER PEOPLES QUESTIONS BECAUSE

THEY ARE NOT FOR YOU

. YOU DID THE SAME GODDAMN THING EARLIER IN THE GAME AND GOT TOLD OFF FOR IT. LEARN YOUR FUCKING LESSON.

[pappums rat]

oh goddamn pine, if you really believe that then i feel sorry for you. you really need to go read some articles in mafia discussion, it would (probably) make you suck far less.

i am ready to die at this point, i dont have any more patience for this game. noose please.

i have made it clear who i think is scum, and the game would benefit from my townflip. havingfitz is vigbait, and at the very least having him nk'ed would mean he wouldnt be there to waste a lynch d2 if he somehow actually is town (he isnt).

good luck smart townies, and fuck you retarded ones. and fuck you scum as well.

p. edit: oh look at me, im so calm and peaceful, i cant be scum, teehee. /sarcasm.
you are a flamebaiting assclown, and flamebaiting is far worse than unconcealed rage.

[pappums rat]

I feel like we're also suffering from a critical lack of participation, too. Three replacements, two of whom have barely posted, one of those who seems not to even be completely caught up yet.

Two

three players (including myself) who are so newbish it hurts.

And half of the rest are either determined sheep or seem to be sticking their fingers in their ears and pursuing only lynches that go nowhere.

PEDIT: Flamebaiting? Point to any one post where I've flamebaited you. I've arguably flamed Andrew, but I don't really DO passive-aggressive. Also, I can't decide whether the ad hominem personal attacks are an effort to fish for a "scum wouldn't get this bent out of shape," or whether they're genuine. In the latter case, I'd say the following:

@Mod-Please enforce:

4) Be courteous to your fellow player. This is just a game - please don't bring personal grudges into the game. Try and keep it civil. If you cross 'the line' I'll step in. Said line will be judged by me.

ftfy. and i was addressing vm with the flamebaiting comment, not you, although your stupidity has indeed been a great source of anger for me.

[pappums rat]

i'm at l-2 bro, so i couldnt even if i would. and i wouldnt because that is a scum move. if people want me dead they can kill me, im not going to protest, this game needs a flip and while i would prefer it to be fitz at least my death would show that my intentions have been true. and calling for me to self hammer is a hilariously awful scummove. and i dont really care if people 'like me' in this game or not, sometimes you gotta make like batman and be the hero the town needs but not deserves.

[pappums rat]

i am the batman

[pappums rat]

lol you are so fucking hilarious pine, it is such a shame we lost xalxe.

[pappums rat]

@ everyone: i have asked rhinox to replace me. i cant handle this game anymore and i think it would be in everyone's best interests if i were replaced. now that im gone, please have the decency to not insult me when i cant respond.

@ my replacement: sorry for putting you in such a shitty position. hopefully you will be a little more eloquent than myself.

Searching for a replacement. Wish you the best pappums.

[pappums rat]

Just got done reading how this game played out after I replaced out and found these:

btw anyone calling pappums scum here, need to re-read his play. or get used to gambits, sure theoretically it could come from scum but it was so awesome here and had such a pro town effect. good play P. Rat.

btw anyone calling pappums scum here, need to re-read his play. or get used to gambits, sure theoretically it could come from scum but it was so awesome here and had such a pro town effect. good play P. Rat.

Seconded.

Scummy award nomination for most pro-town gambit.

I was really diggin' PR's gambit. @fitz: Setael and Faraday are right. After PR came clean, it was you who made the big deal about PR lying, rather than looking around at other players' reactions and thinking hmmm, if this really was a gambit, how would town and scum react to voided being called guilty if he a) really was, or b) wasn't, and seeing who fit the profiles. I understand PR did lie, but in the heat of the moment I was feeling like town wasn't really taking advantage of the gambit there.

Actually, were I in PR's position there, I'd have considered not coming clean at all and just following through with lynching voided since his reaction to being called guilty was so bad.

Thanks for these comments guys. I never thought my gambit would blow up in my face so violently like that, and I was not prepared to deal with the fallout from it. I almost quit mafia because of this game, but I am glad I stuck it out and remained here. I have become a much more conservative scummer because of the reactions in this game.