Would actually bet some money this is a distancing from two bad players.
Kindly fuck off.
unvote, Vote: [winger]
I was reaction testing Parama to see if he's OMGUS me for voting him. Apparently not.
When accused of distancing from two bad players (this is after he called C-Worl idiot town), he overreacts like this and then backs down. This is pretty much the furthest thing from a town reaction possible.
How is this backing down? I can understand the not reading the thread comment (earlier in the post; didn't want to quote the whole thing), but I don't get this. Could you explain?
TwoHeadedBoy wrote:
nhammen wrote:I was asking why your vote was on Pine. You mentioned him multiple times, but never mentioned any suspicions of him before that post. And you did not give reasons in that post either.
Like I said in my very first post, his rambling gave me scummy vibes. His posts haven't given me a town vibe at any point in this game, so I've left my vote.
Fair enough.
Friend wrote:
Friend wrote:
Silverbullet, he's asking questions that people have already asked, he's being vague about the Pine wagon, and he's slightly rolefishing.
YOU PEOPLE ARE LITERALLY FUCKING ILLITERATE. I AM SO DONE WITH THIS GODDAMN AWFUL TOWN.
Ooohhhhhh. I thought you were saying silverbullet was doing this, not Wraith. That's why I asked what rolefishing you were talking about. This makes so much more sense. Except... saying that he doesn't understand the Pine wagon is being vague about the Pine wagon? How so? Also, the questions he asked are the rolefishing, so I don't see why you need to state it twice.
Antihero wrote:meh, it seems I've let myself fall behind on this game.
Well, my vote's being wasted, so UNVOTE:
Have to catch up now.
It would not have been entirely wasted; I was deciding between Jerbs and Friend. Friend has acted scummy, and has more support, but I find some of Jerbs' behavior to be quite scummy. I can't really get behind the Pine wagon at this point in time.
Friend wrote:He's not taking a stance on the Pine wagon (in that quote). Simply saying "I don't get it" doesn't add anything at all to the discussion. If you think he's town, say why you think he's town.
I would assume that saying he doesn't get the wagon is his way of asking people to explain it. Just a thought that I arrived at from common sense...
silverbullet999 wrote:This is where the inconsistency is. Obviously friend feels wraith is rolefishing and finds it suspicious, yet also admits that this same question was asked by others, why did friend specifically focus on wraith? With this same logic, the multiple other people would then also be rolefishing thus he should also find them suspicious, but nowhere does he state this. He simply accepts someone's explanation one post after and votes me again.
More or less my guess with his slight attack on wraith was him trying to earn town cred by starting a wagon and making it look justified, however he realizes it's not going to work and backs out and sloppily throws reasons together when asked, hidden away and playing so hard to have us not find the damn answer.
Interesting case. This does look very suspect.
Friend wrote:Yes, other people were rolefishing. But Wraith's was worse. I don't even really suspect Wraith as much as I do other people.
If you didn't suspect him as much as other people, why did you vote him instead of these other people?
I find it very interesting that silver and friend have been going after each other like this, when they are playing with very similar styles.
And Hiraki enters the game. He doesn't like silver, and for a time I agreed with this. But the way silver has been tunneling on Frie
So control plus something else cause posting apparently. I had to get the cat off of the keyboard...
So as I was saying:
The way silver has been tunneling on Friend doesn't look like scum. Other than that, I would agree with you.
The vote on Calcifer looks odd. I an agree that there are a few contradictions, but it is not necessarily scummy at this point.
Ok guys, pretend I'm retarded. I'm not seeing the Friend case. At all. Can someone please sum it up for me? I already explained why Calcifer's notion that he was on every major early game wagon was BS and got no responses, only continued pushes that he is scum. His frustration looks generally townie to me.
"Those that hammer others are called scum. But I think those who lurk and refrain from voting are worse than scum. If I'm going to be called scum either way, I'd rather hammer! And if that's not being a proper Mafia player, then I'll destroy that idea!"
I'm gonna echo the others and say that I'd like to know why you don't find Friend to be scum, Hiraki.
I am caught up.
VOTE: Friend
because unlike Hiraki, I believe he is scum. The case that has been presented looks good.
I could also support Jerbs, because of his vote on Pine that was only explained after everyone else had provided explanations. And his reasoning included things that had not yet occurred at the time of his vote.
Actually, cookie/Anti's response to that was kinda poor as well, and I do not remember too much content coming from this slot, so I could go with this as well.
Similarly lack of content from EPM.
And I guess c-worl's constant sheeping deserves mention, but I could see this as newb town as well.
Other than that, everyone I can think of right now is town or null.
Preview-edit:
diddin wrote:Ok guys, pretend I'm retarded. I'm not seeing the Friend case. At all. Can someone please sum it up for me? I already explained why Calcifer's notion that he was on every major early game wagon was BS and got no responses, only continued pushes that he is scum. His frustration looks generally townie to me.
Other than this, he has refused to cooperate with the town, and has refused to scumhunt or contribute any worthwhile content for large portions of the time. It has been all AtE all the time, and this AtE frustration could come from scum as well as town, but the fact that he has been using AtE to the exclusion of scumhunting pushes it over for me.
For a recent presentation, see also:
Parama 444
diddin wrote:Well, it's hard for him to scumhunt when you're not even giving him the chance to.
Yes.
I hacked his account to stop him from posting any meaningful content in the thread, reading other users posts, or making any good questions, comments, or contributions.
You wanna know how you scumhunt with a wagon on you? Same as you do in any other circumstance.
Written by GreyICE, unless it was written by Katsuki
Hiraki wrote:If you wanted me to be honest, you could just say it.
DLG's play, after a brief look, wasn't all that great.
I'm glad he only made 3 posts so things couldn't have gotten worse.
Ooh! We should lynch him!
(Also Hiraki-Friend connection noticed. Nice one though, Hiraki - start a "counter-wagon" on a player that won't get a wagon unless he outright claims scum. I'll have to try that one out sometime)
Oh, so his play was good? Seriously?
Also, nhanen voting Friend after finding a Calc contradiction is mucho disturbio.
I'd really hate to start this reputation this early on the site (my second game), but I don't want to be unfair to the other players, and my spring break means I'm working ridiculous hours. I just got home from a 12 hour shift and I'm too exhausted to catch up, and I'm working doubles this entire week. I'm really, really sorry.
Pine wrote:I've played a few games on forums, and I learned in a big damn hurry that most of the skills I'd honed in live games were utterly useless in this medium, such as reading body language, analyzing tone and inflection, and straight-up looking people in the eye and asking them blunt questions. Despite that, I've done a lot of research on the Mafiascum wiki on theory, though I'm sure there are some gaps in my ad hoc education.
"Here's my experience - with a disclaimer that excuses any bad/scummy play."
Pine wrote:@Calcifer: Thanks for the offer of instruction, but no thanks. [snip]. But thanks for the thought, if you are Town.
Note that that's not a FOS, per se, just wariness. We can talk after this game about our apparently-similar styles.
Casts suspicion on Calcifer, then even gets over-defensive about it.
Pine wrote:This provides some solid information that can be fact-checked against the player's history where applicable (i.e. go to my Newbie thread, you'll see the same play style there, and same on the Myth-weavers.com Game 4A, wherein I was a Cop.)
I dislike people providing their own specific games for meta reasons. I shouldn't have to elaborate why. But while I'm here, Pine, care to give a direct link to this offsite game? I can't find it.
Pine wrote:For that matter, asserting that an individual is Town or probably Town without backing it up, or defending anyone without obvious reasons this early in the game, is just as suspicious.
Actually, if anything, giving townreads with explanation is more scummy. /theory
Pine wrote:As much as I can understand fucking with someone's head, a No Lynch vote is just...I'm not sure there's a good word for it. Given the explanation, I'm inclined to not think it as scummy as I would otherwise, but...No Lynch isn't a good thing for Town.
Pine wrote:@ConfidAnon: The intent behind my "wall post" was to address and analyze as much as I could at that point. This has served me very well in the past, even in live games, where I have been known to sit silent for half the discussion time and then conduct a point-by-point dissection of what's been said. It is clear to me that this adaptation of live strategy is not being received well in this crowd, and I'm now scrambling to adjust to water that is suddenly over my head.
Remember how I said he could fall back on his playstyle disclaimer later to excuse his scummy play?
Pine wrote:@GreyICE: 1) Did you really think I thought you were Mastin? No, but as noted above, I was under the mistaken impression that responding to everything was a good idea.
Pine wrote:
GreyICE wrote:P.P.S. If that was a short wall from Pine, I say we report him to the moderator, Mastin is running two accounts. My god man, take a minute or two and edit your post down into something that makes sense. I've been diagnosed with ADD, that doesn't mean you have to inflict rambling wallposts on the world
I am not Mastin. Correlation does not imply causality.
Seems pretty serious to me.
Pine wrote:TL;DR: I've gone from being a big fish in a small pond to medium at best in a big pond. Stuff that's been effective for me in the past no longer is. I'm going to scale back the aggressiveness of my style, and would like you all to cut me a small but reasonable amount of slack. I'm going to try and pipe down a bit for the next day or two, and figure out how to appropriately integrate. I'm not going to do anyone any good by getting lynched on Day One for not knowing how to play with the big kids.
TwoHeadedBoy wrote:Remember how I said he could fall back on his playstyle disclaimer later to excuse his scummy play?
Pine wrote:There aren't many (good) reasons for Town to put up unsubstantiated lists like that, but a big one is to see
who gets defensive or overly concerned about fingers waved in their general direction.
Pine wrote:
Spoiler: In my defense
Good god. Have a nice 10-hour spring break sleep and wake up to a lynch mob.
Re: Going to bed-Seriously? I went to bed. There were a couple of hours of intense back-and-forth, and by the time it was getting into the early AMs, I had had enough. I was declaring my intent not to respond to anything for a while, as I'd be unconscious. Regardless of the fact that I played Starcraft 2 for a while before actually going to sleep.
@DLG: Your reasons boil down to 1) Expressing uncertainty 2) Taking a blow to my ego and actually learning from it and 3) The math discussion, which I didn't actually start, got goaded into, and have tried repeatedly to suppress or end. I'm not sure whether this is tunnel vision or whether you're just squinting as hard as you can in order to make the case you've already decided upon.
Re: Trying too hard: Yeah, I was. So now that I'm trying to back off, as half the thread was clamoring for me to do, it's even more suspicious? I don't get you people. Simply put, I've made mistakes regardless of my alignment. As Town, I've pissed people off and let ego get in the way, and distract people from hunting actual scum. As Mafia, I've gotten too greedy and too obvious. As SK, I've stuck my neck out way too far and gotten noticed. As some other third or fourth party...well, it'd depend on the role, but it still isn't good.
My actions thus far have included a lot of
mistakes
. I screwed up early, and of course I'm trying to fix things now. I put myself into a lose/lose/lose position, and which 'lose' I'm in depends only on alignment. Bad for Town and bad for scum=novice errors. Null tells.
Right now, I'm taking on water. I'll return to actual scumhunting once I've bailed out and gotten back on course. I've noticed things, but I don't think they'd be taken seriously by about half the group right now.
e_e
Pine wrote:Calcifer, GreyICE, kindly stop buddying up to me so hard. My vote can't be bought by defending me, and I'll damn well defend myself when necessary. Plus, you make all of us look scummy when you do it.
This just screams artificial-ness.
Pine wrote:Perhaps someone can enlighten me regarding the merits of continuing to pile onto the Friend wagon? We don't want a speedlynch, and forcing him to roleclaim won't likely help.
Pine wrote:I'll grant that Friend is the scummiest at this point, but there's plenty of other things to do.
Pine wrote:We can come back to Friend at any time, he's not going anywhere.
Pine wrote:And pushing for a speed lynch [on Friend] is a great way to be anti-Town while not appearing it.
Does anyone else see what I'm seeing here?
Pine wrote:So, are people willing to pursue other options, with Friend as our backup in the case others don't present themselves? Or are you all committed to finishing Friend off now?
Keep in mind his vote's on Friend at this point. And he's casting suspicion on those voting for him.
Pine wrote:If we're going with Friend, let's get it over. If not, then let's keep him on the back burner and look at someone else.
I thought you didn't want a speedlynch?
Pine wrote:Friend & Empking = scumbuddies?
Smacks of desperately looking for someone to
deflect attention
onto.
Speaking of deflection...
Pine wrote:
Friend wrote:Because I'm pissed the fuck off. This is exactly what happened in Succession Mafia. Lynch me now please.
There's a clear least common denominator there.
Clever to point out a game with a similar situation where you flipped Town, though.
Pine wrote:This provides some solid information that can be fact-checked against the player's history where applicable (i.e. go to my Newbie thread, you'll see the same play style there, and same on the Myth-weavers.com Game 4A, wherein I was a Cop.)
...
Pine wrote:WTF does that mean, C-Worl? He answered the questions, though belatedly and not very satisfactorily.
Defending AND casting suspicion? Atta boy, scum!
Pine wrote:
C-Worl wrote:That's what I mean by playing hardball. He's making us run around in circles to get information out of him and he's mad at us for not listening.
And you're just feeding into it. Friend knows he's going down,
and probably doing his best to get as many people looking suspicious before going down and muddy the waters.
And he's doing a good job, too. So stop helping him.
He recently has casted suspicion on Friend, Empking, and C-Worl, as I've shown above. Funny, this is.
Pine wrote:@Hiraki: I ISO'd Calcifer like you suggested, and you're right, I spotted a few scummy things I had missed when they were spread out. However, I also noticed that at Calc's last town/scum rundown, he had DLG pegged as scum. Considering that you inherited DLG's role and are just now reading those accusations, I wonder whether they hit a bit close to the mark. Especially as you solidified your case against Calc at around the same time you read them.
So the result of ISOing Calc was to drop both you and him from a Townie read to neutral at best.
"You're right, but I'm going to call you scummy so I can join either bandwagon when they pick up."
