Newbie 1079: Feed the Lynch Mob (Game Over)

[Traveller]

Am I Mafia or am I not? I ain't tellin' youse guys!

If you freeze wash water, it makes gray ice. And I hate doing laundry!

VOTE: GrayICE

[Traveller]

Am I Mafia or am I not? I ain't tellin' youse guys!

If you freeze wash water, it makes gray ice. And I hate doing laundry!

VOTE: GrayICE

I distrust your hat.

If I was Mafia (and, mind you, I'm not saying I am), I'd use the hat for nefarious purposes. Ever see "Goldfinger"?

[Traveller]

Unvote

VOTE: Traveller

That avi and Italian talk makes you definite scum.

I found him out guys! Everyone vote Traveller!

Uh, wait, youse guys! I'm not Mafia! I swear on my sweet Sicilian mother's grave!

[Traveller]

Unvote

VOTE: Traveller

That avi and Italian talk makes you definite scum.

I found him out guys! Everyone vote Traveller!

Uh, wait, youse guys! I'm not Mafia! I swear on my sweet Sicilian mother's grave!

[Traveller]

Seriously: sorry for the multiple posts!

[Traveller]

1) How many games of mafia have you played before?
- 0

2) What age are you?
- Probably about the age of most of your parents. Let's leave it at that.

3) Would you rather pull town or scum, and why?
- Isn't it always more fun to play the villian?

4) Whose your strongest suspicion at this point?
- Not sure. Keeping my vote with GreyICE at this point.

[Traveller]

'Course, I could be a wiseguy (another Mafia reference!) and vote for Equinox!

[Traveller]

Eastern US, so Eastern Standard Time (GMT -5).

[Traveller]

Just trying to keep the conversation lively. If that means I'm first to be lynched, so be it!

tarsonisoscelot: By way of explanation, my son is a budding thespian and always seems to get cast as the villain (Ryan in "High School Musical", Bennie in "Rent", etc.). He has much more fun playing the bad guy than the virtuous leading man and it shows in his work.

King of Harolds: Sometimes, those who are most observant are looking for a bit of mischief. Are you hoping others are watching my behavior rather than yours? Could be, so:

Unvote
Vote: King of Harolds

[Traveller]

Ah, but we have to lynch someone. If it's my time, so be it, but let's make it interesting. BTW, KoH, did not intend to OMGUS you, but it came out that way. Apologies, but you are the most aggressive player, which, lacking any other information, suggests mafiosi to me.

You all are a pretty serious crowd. Don't want to garner any more votes than I already have, so I'm done with the flippant attitude - at least for now!

[Traveller]

Time to re-review past posts and re-evaluate my vote. One thing I don't want to do is put someone at L-1 or cast the lynching vote unless I'm as sure as I can be (given the circumstances). Will need a good reason to switch and all I have seen so far is conjecture. Guess that all we can do - take our best guess. My vote remains with KoH for the time being. However, if I get a bad feeling about someone, I'll change my vote regardless of the circumstances, even if that means I have to be the hangman.

Seems the ideal position for a player is to have some suspicion cast their way (so the Mafaosi won't knock them off that night but keep them as cover), yet not so much as to get lynched. Sn1pe, panda and I are all walking that tightrope, I have cast some suspicion on KoH, and the rest are all "Mafia meat".

[Traveller]

All I'm seeing on each of these posts is people posting absolute filler. We may as well start over for all that's going on.

Traveller, please remind me of why your vote is on KoH.
I don't put much effort into looking at claims. You can lie and no one would be able to tell unless the role exists on some other player. So no mafia would claim cop or doc for the stupid risk of it.

My vote for KoH was only in regards to his assertive style. Looking back, I can see it had a tinge of OMGUS to it; that's why I'm re-evaluating my vote.

[Traveller]

Time to re-review past posts and re-evaluate my vote. One thing I don't want to do is put someone at L-1 or cast the lynching vote unless I'm as sure as I can be (given the circumstances). Will need a good reason to switch and all I have seen so far is conjecture. Guess that all we can do - take our best guess. My vote remains with KoH for the time being. However, if I get a bad feeling about someone, I'll change my vote regardless of the circumstances, even if that means I have to be the hangman.

Seems the ideal position for a player is to have some suspicion cast their way (so the Mafaosi won't knock them off that night but keep them as cover), yet not so much as to get lynched. Sn1pe, panda and I are all walking that tightrope, I have cast some suspicion on KoH, and the rest are all "Mafia meat".

Even if you do get a bad feeling about someone could you not hammer them until close to the deadline? You should be able to use the extra time to re-evaluate or strengthen your case.

Also, that's only the ideal place to be if your goal is to personally survive - it should be to make sure that your side wins.

Quite right, taronisoscelot. This is not "Survivor".

[Traveller]

GreyICE and Hero: When you talk about town "reads", what do you mean? Serious newbie here and I don't know the board jargon yet.

I am unvoting, since KoH is gone and I don't have a read on Hero yet. My opinions:
- Sn1pe29: I'm not convinced enough that he's scum to cast the lynching vote.
- thil13 and bristep are tougher reads since they aren't posting as much.
Not enough for me to go on (yes, I understand this is a game of supposition) to be really comfortable knowing I'm voting to lynch scum (that is, if I am town). Instead of looking at each player and trying to determine if they are town or scum, I'm trying to pick up on "scummy" behavior.

The one person no one has seriously suspected yet is tarsonisoscelot. She's been actively posting but has yet to arouse much suspicion. Perhaps a bit of gender assumption on the part of the membership ("she can't be scum - she's a GIRL!"). I'm not buying it. She has been very careful not to rock the boat, which could be a Mafiosi tactic, so - for the time being anyway - I'm going to cast my vote for her.

Unvote

Vote: tarsonisoscelot

[Traveller]

Usually on this site, if someone says "town read" as a noun, they mean "a person they think is town".
So when I say that Sn1pe29 gave three town reads, I mean Sn1pe29 named three people he thought were likely to be town.

Thanks for the clarification. Thought a town read was some kind of action or word that indicated a player was town.

Since I replaced him, KoH and I have the same role. If he had been mafia, I would also be mafia. (Fortunately he wasn't, so I'm not.)

So you say...

[Traveller]

Traveller, I like that you're taking a look at a player who hasn't received much suspicion. But I question whether you're voting her because you think she's mafia, or just to make the votes more rounded.

This game is tougher than if we were playing face-to-face - no body language, no tone of voice, no facial expressions to help discern the scum. I voted for tarson for two reasons, because no one has seriously suspected her of being scum before (again, I suspect partly because she is female), and to draw her out an (maybe) force her to defend herself.

[Traveller]

Promised my opinions and reasoning a few posts ago. Here we go:

Leaning toward scum:

-

Nachomamma8

: Likes to challenge the questioning and specific statements of others. A bit aggressive - could definitely be scum.
-

Herodotus

: Experienced and only recently a part of the group. He has taken over King of Heralds role, and I was suspicious of him. KoH was young and aggressive, Hero has the same role but is more experienced and not as likely to tip his hand.

Not Sure:

-

Sn1pe27

: Has asked a lot of questions (not a bad thing in and of itself), but seemed resigned to being lynched in Post 144. I would expect scum not to go down so easily (or maybe his resignation is a red herring?). I'm not ready to cast the lynch vote on him.
-

tarsonisoscelot

: not much to go on. Has been disconnected and has not had much suspicion cast her way until I cast my vote for her. I had hoped to get her to defend herself and give us some insight.
-

GREYIce

: Experienced and thorough in his analysis, but that could be hiding a scummy underside.

Leaning toward town:

-

pandabear

: Even-tempered and inquisitive - wants to keep the game flowing. Nothing I have read suggests scum, but seems like he would have a good poker face.
-

thil13

: Also questioning and even-tempered, though seems not as curious as panda. Also could have a poker face.
-

}|{opa

: Replacing bristep123 but has not posted yet. Since (s)he is taking over bristep's role, I looked as bristep's posts. Seemed like a relatively experienced player whose frustration was growing. I would expect an experienced player to want to be scum (assuming they had more likely been town in the past), so his frustration says to me that he - and subsequently }|{opa - is town.

Definitely town:

-

Traveller

My vote failed to draw a response from tarson, and I don't want to have a non-lynch day either. So, I'm recasting my vote to see what happens. It comes down to Nacho or Hero, but my previous vote for KoH (Hero's predecessor) was tinged with OMGUS, a slight emotional reaction to KoH voting for me. So put me down for:

Unvote
Vote: Nachomamma8

[Traveller]

Been working some long hours this week, so fell behind. Nice spoilers, Nacho, but I'm not changing my vote.

[Traveller]

Two townies gone...the scum must be licking their chops. Nothing that has been posted yesterday or today has changed my mind. I still think that Nacho and Hero are most likely Mafiaosi.

[Traveller]

Vote: Nachomamma8

[Traveller]

Traveller:
What is your case on me? Right now, you're having a tendency to point your fingers at experienced players simply because they're experienced. And while you're most likely right with one of them, you have no reasoning behind your voting, and thus no chance to convince anyone else.

What do you mean, "nice spoilers"? Are you complimenting the format, or the content inside of them? If it's the content, what's nice about it?

Why choose me over Hero for scum?

Nacho: Firstly, I liked the format of your spoilers; that is, how they were arranged. I'm a PowerPoint guy from way back and like to use bullets and orderly presentation to make my point.

My case on you was:

-

Nachomamma8

: Likes to challenge the questioning and specific statements of others. A bit aggressive - could definitely be scum.

Not picking on you and Hero because you're vets, but going with my "gut instinct". And you're right, there is no reason for anyone else to trust my instincts, especially when any player (including myself) could be lying scum. I appreciate your directness, but I feel that the stereotypical Mafia would want to hide and keep a low profile. That's what many folks would expect, so, what better way to camouflage your scumminess than to earnestly question the motives of others. Again, no definitive proof, just a gut feel. Nothing personal.

However, I had a small revelation this evening. Just before day 1 ended, Hero posted:

We're running low on time. I think that Sn1pe29 is town, but we need to lynch someone before the deadline hits. I'll let Nacho or Grey explain why, but it's strongly accepted by the community that letting a day end without lynching is usually bad, especially on day 1. In this particular example, there's a chance Sn1 is scum, and also, knowing his alignment will help us to figure out the people who are trying to lynch him. So eventually I will place the hammer vote if no other options rise.

Sounds like nice, friendly advice from an experienced player, right? Even offers to have two others corroborate the advice. But that would also be a shrewd move to make sure that a full complement of townies (minus the first night's murder victim) wouldn't have an additional day to try to weed out the scum. Previously, my case against Hero was based on his predecessor, King of Harolds, and I was prepared to back down from it. However, my "Hero"-ic suspicions (pardon the pun) have been rekindled.

For now, I'll keep my vote with you, Nacho. But I may change to Hero at any time. Do you or GreyICE want to comment on Hero's quote above? Willing to listen.

[Traveller]

@Traveller: how are townies supposed to root out the scum, if not by aggressive questioning?

Good point, but just because you are (or look like) you're trying to root out the scum, doesn't mean you aren't scum yourself. I do like the fact that board activity has picked up a bit as the vets start to dig deeper. BTW, hope your hand is doing better!

No lynch is mathematically a poor option from a game theory standpoint. It costs you a lynch, as the scum ration is 7:2 at the start. Since one mislynch costs you two town (one lynched, one NKed), it goes 7:2, 5:2, 3:2. Therefore, unless Hero was 100% certain sn1pe was town beyond the smallest shadow of doubt (which he could only be if he was scum) he should hammer, because otherwise it costs us a lynch for no information gained.
Many veterans will deadline hammer for that reason.

Thanks for clarification. That affects my thinking about Hero.

Yes, I'm corked at the moment, somewhat because my top suspect is handicapped for the day, but mostly because I'm waiting for something.

Intriguing. Just what are you waiting for, Nacho? Hmmmm?

My latest reads, from scummiest to towniest:

-

Nachomamma8

: still at top until I see something town from him or scummy from someone else.
-

Herodotus

: Still my second suspect, but I'm less certain than before, since GreyICE gave the sensible answer to the "last hour lynch vote" post by Hero.
-

thil13

creeps up a bit. Suspicion of him is growing due to his lurking. Yes, thil, I know stuff happens - I just helped bury my mother's husband this past weekend - but just because you've got a lot going on doesn't mean you're not scum. Hope whatever preoccupies you is temporary and has a positive outcome.
-

tarsonisoscelot

: could still be scum. But I don't have a definite town read on her.
-

pandabear

: Lurking a bit too much, but still nothing I have read suggests scum.
-

GREYIce

: See? I don't think ALL veteran players are scum just because of their experience. I'm getting a town vibe, but he could have me bamboozled.

[Traveller]

@Traveller: what do you think about posts 203-205?

Hmmm. Looked right past that one. At that point, the vote was 4 to lynch Sn1pe, 3 to lynch Nacho. You cast the deciding vote shortly thereafter. I see where you're going with this, but I have a couple of additional observations:

We've only got a couple of hours and we really should lynch someone. Will one of the nacho people please vote snipe?

From post #203, tarsonisoscelot (TO, from now on as she wishes) did seem to be in a hurry to lynch Sn1pe. Did she just want to get it over with, or was she trying to protect her partner in scum, Nacho?

Competing wagons day 1! I am a happy, happy man.

From post #202, Grey seemed happy that there was confusion about who to lynch. Why? I would think scum would be pleased that there is no definitive evidence as to who they are. Supposing Grey were scum, he might be pleased not only to see a split lynch vote, but even more pleased if neither accused were scum. We already know that Sn1pe was town, perhaps Nacho is also. This would also fit the quote from TO above, whether or not she is scum (she would just want to get it over with).

Neither quote gets you off the hook, Hero. You could still be scum, but I'm a bit green on how to read vets like you. So now my list looks like this:

-

Nachomamma8

: I don't want to bounce all over with my vote, but I'm keeping a much more wary eye on TO and Grey now. You may soon be off my hook, Nacho.
-

tarsonisoscelot

: based on above analysis.
-

GreyICE

: Just too cool for words, Mr Grey. But you may have slipped up just a bit.
-

Herodotus

: Still a suspect. Your predecessor King of Herolds is partly to blame and you were quite willing to cast the lynch vote (with a righteous justification that you may be hiding behind).
-

thil13

: difficult to call him scum without any provocation.
-

pandabear

: Still nothing I have read suggests scum. If you are, Panda, you got me totally fooled.

Glad you're asking my opinion now, Hero. Since you all have such a strong town read on me, I am probably heading for a NK in Night 2. That is, unless

I'm

scum.

[Traveller]

That is, unless

I'm

scum.

Every so often you make little throwaway 'jokes' like this. It unsettles me and seems quite anti-town.

Same here.

It's not making me want to lynch you, but it is making me think "I wouldn't want to lose to Traveller if he is part of the mafia, because he's being smug about it." Which makes me not want to assume you're town for emotional reasons, even if I think you are.

Waiting for Nacho8, Thil13, and Panda.

Sorry guys. Not trying to be smug, just trying to ease the tension a bit. Glad to refrain if it causes a ruckus.

[Traveller]

Nice action on the board today. Going out to dinner, but will review posts and toss in my two cents in a few hours.

[Traveller]

Ok, the day's activity featured Nacho accusing Hero of being scum and Hero's response to the same, as well as his reasons for declaring Nacho scummy. My vote has been on Nacho for awhile now, but I have had my suspicions about Hero as well. But, it's become apparent to me that no more than one of them is scum. If they are both scum, they are giving each other up, each hoping not to be lynched.

My reads have always been more about attitudes and reactions, rather than looking for specific words or phrases in posts as being "scummy". I previously mentioned this is harder than doing it face-to-face because of the lack of nonverbals (body language, expressions, etc.). I wasn't entirely right; you can still detect tone of "voice", even in a board post.

Nacho is giving a vibe of desperation, trying to turn attention from himself to one of his accusers. His claims seemed more general and unsupported than Hero's responses. I need to go back and read some old posts to validate that, but I will say that my vote stays with Nacho for now.

The other question is: who is the other scum? Will have to address that in a later post. Have a situation just come up at home. Cheers for now.

[Traveller]

Responses to direct questions:

Can you give a few examples of points that nacho makes or lines in his post that make you think 'desperate?'

Had to reread yesterday's interaction between Nacho and Hero. And in doing so, I get to eat a bit of crow. Nacho is certainly more assertive than Hero in their counter-accusations, but he doesn't lose his cool. Questioning by both players is direct and forward, it's just that Nacho does not seem as "calm, cool and collected" as Hero. But Nacho does not at any time start in with really desperate behavior like name-calling. I jumped the gun on my previous comment. Also, you Grey, made the comment about Nacho's questioning being "good scumhunting". I need to quit equating assertiveness with guilt.

Still watching both Nacho and Hero. No way they are both scum, but could they both be town?

Traveller: I pretty much let this slip originally, but could you explain why you made the "mafia meat" comment and why you seemed to suddenly change your mind after I challenged that part of your comment?

Sure. It was also another case of my joking around (the "Mafia meat" comment). I was too focused at the time on my own personal survival, rather than the town win. And I felt a bit sheepish about it. I've gotten the vibe that people are serious about this game, so I'll save my lame jokes for my poor, patient wife.

One other response I never gave:

Traveller, don't forget post 205 was part of the selection I pointed out.

Had to look back on this one. At the time, Hero, it seemed you were trying to convince me of your innocence of quick-lynching (oops, sorry about the word) Sn1pe. Wasn't necessary, based on what I'm learning about the game. But, did you protest your innocence too much? I let you off the hook with my initial response, but you pressed the issue a bit too much. Keeps me suspicious of you.

[Traveller]

Nacho is giving a vibe of desperation

Yes, I'm desperate. Herod is a very good player who I know is scum, but I can't get him lynched. If you were in the same position, wouldn't you feel the same way? Why does desperation make me scum?

You're point is valid, Nacho. My apologies for equating an assertive attitude with guilt. I've kept my vote on you for much of D1 and all of D2. But, I have suspected Herodotus as well. No way you could both be scum and I have a hard time believing you're both town.

A question for all: I'm going on vacation from April 24-29 and will not have internet access. Should I unvote during my absence, then revote near the end of D2 (April 30)? Or should I just allow my vote to ride until I return?

[Traveller]

Thanks for the response, but the point may be moot. Equinox is finding a temp replacement for me while I'm gone.

[Traveller]

Nope. Will re-read last weeks' posts to see if I can spot something. I'm not a cop. Glad to be back and appreciating Glass filling in.

[Traveller]

Just went back and looked at past votes. Seems that, in addition to Herodotus and }|{opa, four of the five remaining players voted to lynch NachoMamma8 at one time or another. Only one of the remaining players has never voted to lynch Nacho: tarsonisoscelot.

In every vote tally, TO voted for me (and, no, this isn't retribution), thil or Grey, or she abstained.

One thing that tempers this revelation a bit is that Nacho once voted to lynch her, but his was the only one against her at the time. Perhaps a red herring.

Damning evidence? Not nearly by itself, but with Panda's observations above, it makes her my #1 suspect.

[Traveller]

OK, the newbie is taking the hammer and calling for a quicklynch. If TO is scum, as I suspect she is, we're done. If not, we used our last free lynch and I have a good idea who the scum is.

Vote: tarsonisoscelot

[Traveller]

Interesting finale, gentlemen. Congrats to Nacho and Mr. Grey for the Mafia victory. And many thanks to Equinox for overseeing the madness.

[Traveller]

Agreed. Nice work, Equinox!