Open 295 -- Island Paradise Mafia -- Game Over

[Jora]

Hi to all!

Vote: }|{opa

for the unusual username.

Nil sub sole novum.


Stare decisis et non quieta movere.
VOTE: DeathRowKitty
I'm still afraid of straight rows, black kittens and of course death.

[Jora]

Ha-ha, yes! I found it: http://www.mafiascum.net/dontpanic/view ... rt=25#p446

[Jora]

TTTTCVB+ a goon down is my bet. ¡Adiós!

[Jora]

Do you see nothing remotely worth voting for?

No, I'm not. May be you.
It is scummy to make a quick case on someone as soon as get two RVS votes himself, isn't it?
I'm not quiting RVS, just keeping an eye on you and not unvoting. I'd rather continue with RQS for now.

Q: How much should we rely on setup speculation?
A: A lot! I always loved it.
Q: How do you think the events of N0 played out?
A: I've already posted my thoughts on the night actions and a setup. Imo we have a variant with TTTTCVB. andrew94 was a Mafia Goon and he has been killed by a SK.

@cjdrum:

And, how lucky is it (for the Mafia) that they got the Vig, and for us that the Vig got his kill in (on a Mafioso), too! The irony.

N0 shot is very bad and anti-town play for a Vig. What makes you think Romanus did it? Did you know something interesting about Romanus?

[Jora]

No, I know nothing.

How else would a Mafia Goon die, though? With your proposed TTTTCVB, there'll only be one Vig.

TTTT = 2 Goons + Godfather,

Serial Killer

(Doc Bypass, Block Bypass, Kill Immune)

I frankly hope Mod created this game without your Pyton script.

[Jora]

Oh, don't be upset. I'm kidding.

[Jora]

Oi! 14 items.
@DeathRowKitty. Am I so bad or you still trying to make a cases out of nowhere?
I just wanted to say you make things too quick like it something hurt your arse.
And those questions isn't mine. It's ToastyToast asking.

@yabbaguy. What is the "ABR in MD"? Is it some kind of Albert B. Rampage's favourite tactics? What does it mean?

That is some blatant role fishy I see there

Where is rolefishing? If it is some kind of fishing it is meta-info fishing. But it's not. I'm just pointed on an ambiguity in cjdrum's conclusion. And cjdrum is a boy, right?

[Jora]

Proverbs 28:1 The wicked flee when no one pursues.

@DeathRowKitty
Well, if all that is as you said and those two votes did not hurt you then you a scum even more.

[Jora]

You asked HIM if he knew something.

Blah! Ok, let it be rolefishing if you want it so hard. Great! Anyways, in C9++ setup is no Watcher role exist.

[Jora]

Well, my first thought was that Romanus is famous for his bad play at being a Vig. And, DRK, you totally not right here - Vig should never kill so early. It's very bad if he did.

[Jora]

so }|{opa and mafia can kill her

So you think that I am a SK. And...

2) We don't know if there is a SK but if their is a SK in the game that shot andrew I would like to shake their hand for a good shot and for getting rid of someone who doesn't really scum hunt well.

I suppose it's time for me to say thank you! But, I'm not a SK, I swear!

[Jora]

Are you going to address it or just hope to discredit me so everyone will ignore what i said?

I found significantly nothing to addres on this matter. Your magic 14 is crap and I wish you understand it by yourself.

I see no reason to argue theory with someone unwilling to actually consider whether or not his opinions are wrong. I gave reasons. You just repeated what you said with no reason.

Wait a second. Am I not willing to consider an opinion? No. I'm eager to discuss wheter or not Vig should kill at a rough guess. Lets have a comparison.
Pluses:
1) it would be a town-controlled kill whithout any scum's speculative inference.
2) Vig would have a shot for sure.
Minuses:
1)Very likely he hit a town, not scum.
2)It can be -3 if SK is also involved or even -4 (!) if another Vig exists.
3)He may kill pro-town power role just as likely as an evil guy.
4)If he kill some person at N0 we would have less information than if he kill the same person lately.
5)He shots less accurate, because he has not much input to make a right choise.
Now, your turn. Show me please how the Vig's night zero shot could be good in this setup.

You don't even bothered to look at the RQS discussion in thread and ToastyToast's posts before you start walltexting poor ol' me. Just saying.
Why you rushed without even trying to re-read and think a little?

Gosh, is everyone I attack this game going to try to defend by attacking me back?

The question is why you attaking everyone so ferociously? If it usual for you to scumhunting like that?

I saw someone who looks for all purposes of role fishing and I still don't feel satisfied by his response.

@ farside22. You too. Now you see that I'm not rolefishing and there is no Wathers involved. What else should I do to make you feel satisfied?

It's too late now. ¡Buenas noches!

[Jora]

@}|{opa : Do you think DRK is scum? If so why?
Do you have a read on anyone this game so far? How do you view cj's response to your loaded question?

Wait. No, I'm not yet.
The cj's response you mentioned is this:"Nevmind, then."? Then i view it positively.

Where did this quote come from and who? I don't see anywhere that I posted that comment but you acted like I did.

Because you did. Why are you so absent-minded? Please concentrate a little and stop posting in such a manner.
Btw, what do you feel about lynching all lurkers?

@yabbaguy Ta! What would you do if you were a Vig? Do you shoot at night zero and why?

Fixed tag. ~~NS

[Jora]

@ Mod: Do Godfather appears innocent to Cop?

[Jora]

Also,

@ Mod.

Does Godfather immune to being killed at night?

[Jora]

My top suspects are DeathRowKitty and startransmission.

I think DeathRowKitty is a mafia Godfather, since he so obvious target for a Cop. But really I don't know. I keep watching for more reads. IGMEOY, DeathRowKitty!
UNVOTE:
startransmission, havingfitz and Sundy does not collaborated much, and they had only two posts each.
But only startransmission's posts gots me frightened. This post so is full of lurky mean evil scummness!
He used obvious oportunity to make another emty post in response to TT's post at 5:16 am. 5:18 am he just said to ToastyToast "oh, oh!". 5:20 am - TT answered, but to late! startransmission is gone. Sometimes finding a lurking scum is all about timing. But really I don't think he is mafia. May be it's becouse of his creepy smiley avatar, but anyways, he's f* Seral Killa!

VOTE: startransmission

[Jora]

@ yabbaguy. It's bad to ask a question in return, mmkay? But why not? I know that you've been playing this setup before and I want to know your opinion on that theme. Did you noticed that we are currently disscussing it with DRK? Or did you thought that it's only our business?
I see you are trying to avoid a flammable matters, aren't you? Yes. You call it "to let the game breathe".
No, no, no. If you wanna win this you should collaborate. Or I call you a Lurker and eat you!

[Jora]

It's bad to ask a question in return, mmkay?

If your question is rolefishing, I will question your questionable question. "It's bad to ask a question" just isn't right.

How even remotely this could be rolefishing? It is so tiny chance that we have two Vig's. One shot Vig should have a different strategy as DRK said. Don't be silly! And say god damn how else we can hear something from you if you are silent outside direct questions!?

If you think DRK is mafia Godfather, why aren't you voting for them? Does the single post by startransmission really outweight your accusation on DRK?
Also, wouldn't any mafia member be targeting a cop? Why does this make DRK mafia Godfather?
....
Also, it doesn't make sense to me why he would call DRK Mafia Godfather then not put a vote down.

I've said "I really don't know". We not in endday yet, I can freely unvote, since I have said enough about my first suspect, and want to spread the pressure on another one. And sorry for stupid typo. I mean "since he

IS

so obvious target for a Cop."

I think }|{opa himself is trying to fish for the cop.

I knowed that somebody eventually will point that. Because I included "C" in my bet, right?
But, vice versa your accusation makes you to be fishing for a cop now? Thats how reaction hunting works.

FoS

: ToastyToast

[Jora]

Would someone who is either godfather or cop ask this?

Fail. You don't know anithing about me. I ALWAYS CURIOUS.
It's the main reason I am here playing with you. Believe me, I have a lot of possibilities to play in Russian forums.

Where am I saying whom I suspect the MOST, huh? When I said of rather Godfatherness of DRK it mean that he is in fact less scumm! Because I've

excluded

case where he is usual scum.
And watch closely: I IGMEOYing him, but I FoSing you! IGMEOY < FoS. So who is the most suspicious now? It's you!
Just look what have you done: "Yes, he is probably Cop, but nah, it's too bold for a cop, so he's guilty. Vote! Push him for a claim!"
You just admitted that you hunting for a cop!

@yabbaguy I've seen you! Come out, damn luker.

Edited to change tiny text to fullsize. ~~NS

[Jora]

Nobody Special, sorry sir!

Does the single post by startransmission really outweight your accusation on DRK?

You protecting lurkers. Typical mistake. That's what all the lurkers hope for. They trying to stay below a radar untill RVS would over and one or two major bandwagons will be formed. The common practice shows that it profitable. Indeed, it's often happens that at the end of the day the biggest bandwagons are on those who been unlucky to get votes at the beginning of the day and it's VERY hard to switch it back on REAL scummy guys. Therefore, I never look at quantity but quality. And that pays off as my previous Newbie 1068 game shows (town epic win in two days).

I'm going against the grain. But it doesn't mean that I'm scummy.

[Jora]

But You didn't really answer my question.

Yes, those single post by startransmission really outweight accusations on DRK and even on you.
Because, you're sincerely trying to discuss and find out who's who and this is a good sign. I can't deny it.

[Jora]

Btw, it's you, TT, searching for Cop. Not me.

[Jora]

Oh, great. The lurcker-man arises and what does he do? Voting most active player and FoSing the 2nd activist. How predictable.

@havingfitz
1)Why you not posting early? I've seen your posts outside the thread.
2)What are your reads on farside22?

}|{opa pushing DRK as a good cop lynch. Why keep mentioning a cop?

No, I'm not. And it's ToastyToast mentioned the Cop! I FoSing him for that only reason.

[Jora]

And I still see it as trying to direct actions of the hypothetical cop you believe is in the game. Would steering a potential cop investigation towards DRK benefit you?

Logic Fail. I stated that DRK is more likely GF =which equals to= investigations on him would be useless I. M. O., thats all. Cop should listen only to himself. And main idea was not about a Cop, it was about DRK - he does not afraid of attention. It makes him less scum.

My vote for startransmission is based on his behavior. And it's not my fault that he demonstrates it to us only once.

That is why I feel lurker voting is useless

What did I hear? Taboo on voting lurkers? Ha-ha-ha. That's what they want.
And I don't give a shit on L/VA promises and on possible replacements. I've seen hundreds of thousands times when Scums faked they ability to post.
Just saying, no offence, havingfitz.

I feel as if they are trying to go for an easy lynch.

Yeh, very easy. My ass blown how easy. No one willing to vote him at all!

I think the Cop debate between Jora/TT is like two children saying:
No you did it
No you did it.

I've re-read all, and I agree. ToastyToast is obv town. I revoke my FoS. But I'm still be watching DRK, because i feel he overplaying a bit.

Did you see him posting in other games?

Yes. Lets vote far a scum!

Fixed quote tag. ~~NS

[Jora]

Does that fact you and DRK have posted the most exempt you from suspicion/votes?

Sorry, but I can't hold myself in check. Just tired of all this crap. It going from one game to another whithout any changes.
Your bandwagon loving ass vote was totally p-r-e-d-i-c-t-a-b-l-e.
Of course the fact that I and DRK have posted the most not exempt us from anything, but it gives us a brownie points.
We stimulate discussion, make a lot of contribution to the thred. It's PRO-TOWN deeds. But it makes us more valuable for any kind of hair-splitting-stupid-idiots attacks.

So, farside repeat please what is your cause on me? I've already proved that we have no Watchers and since that I can't "fish her".

[Jora]

Screw this.

Dulche et decorum es pro patria mori.
Well, I've alrady pointed to a scum and if town is not braindead then it win without my help.

VOTE: }|{opa

[Jora]

@havingfitz What does it mean "D1 RV"?

[Jora]

Lady and gentelmens, you are looking into wrong direction.

I almost sure Toasty and havingfitz are towns. Their reaction on my self-vote is natural.
Scums somewhere within cjdrum, animorpherv1, DRK, startransmission. Look at them. The first two having fun outside the thread. They intentionally avoid posting here. They wait untill drama would over, so no one can detect their fake reactions. They simply don't know what to do and dicided to not get involved. It's scummy as hell.

[Jora]

Look at "Face wtith a name" and "Marathon Days". DRK having fun too. It's something weird with his posts and all.

[Jora]

That guy is certanly knows what he's doing. And it's in no way pro-town.
VOTE: animorpherv1

[Jora]

OMG, three Open D1, two Mini middle.

Open 292 ~ C9 ~ Day 1
Open 293 - Donner Party Mafia, Take Two (Day 1)
Mini 1142 - Quintessentially English Mafia - Day 2
Mini 1145 — Plain Mafia (Day 1)

DRK, dear, isn't it too much? Are you going to putter around?
Wake up and smell the coffee, for fuck's sake!

[Jora]

Yeah, I somehow missed it. "policy lynch", ToastyToast, WTF? If someone is needed to be policy lynched so it's DRK. I don't see how he can be helpful if he overloaded with the graet amount of games he's currently in. So how could we ever know whether he is scummy or just inattentive?! I don't wanna see him in LyLo.

And I have some theory involving animorph and DRK. Look at this amaizing cat-fight.
It looks fake, like pretence. Something similar I've seen in every third of all my games. For instance the last one.

Vote animorph & DRK FTW!

[Jora]

EBTWOP @ TT, sorry. Ctrl-c, Ctrl-v fail obv. I mean Sundy.

[Jora]

@ havingfitz you wrong.

[Jora]

I'm wrong all the time. Trouble is I don't realize it until whoever I suspect flips. Only time/votes will tell.

So if you think my flip will clear DRK and vise versa, you'd better vote him coz I'm certainly not a scum AND your reads on DRK is almost the same as mine!

I mean you only one who noticed that "-DRK accusing anomorph of defending Sundy (bad)" so far.

[Jora]

You know what else is "negative"? This: "While I didn't realize I had placed you at L-2"
Good townie Rule #1: you should always count votes before going on bandwagon.
And this: "Maybe you have 4 votes because you are coming across as scummy " Good point, isn't it?
1st vote on me: you proclaimed DRK's 14 inconsistence by yourself.
2nd vote on me: farside "Sorry you were my guinea pig this game."
3rd vote on me: I donno first he just got confused, then got confused again...
Then you with your greatest reasoning of all that I ever heard.
No wonder why I got despaired. I'm regret now. So stfu and vote DRK, please.

[Jora]

looks like you have no better case to go on

Thats right. Besides, I started suspect animorph and DRK before I saw DRK's games.
Havingfitz is town imo, because he is too natural stubborn. It seems he suspect me and deny all the points I've told him. Besides, he observed some interesting connections. And look closer - he did not mentioned you in his list. It is unusual for a scum not to mention somebody who is not his teammate but have done at least something notable. I mean it's usually hard to fake those things.

Just look at him:
"I'm voting who I think is scum....}|{opa isn't."
I not voted for a TOP SUSPECT only once - when i selfvoting.
"I'm voting someone who has provided a lot of information to work with, }|{opa isn't.
Good point. Excellent. Vote for top-posters! FTW!
What a crap!

you are just trying to hurt my feelings

Of course, coz imma illiterate ass.

[Jora]

@ Sundy, by DPK you mean me? I'm Jora.
Townies violate those rules much more often then scums, sadly.

This time

it does not make me suspicious of havingfitz, but next time I may decide in a different way. So it's better not to do shit (I include my selfvote here). No, I don't think havingfitz has a good point. However, I done some mistakes and probably I look scummy from his point of view. Currently I voting for animorpherv1.

@ Mod. It's time to prod cjdrum, animorpherv1!

[Jora]

@ Mod. It's time to replace animorpherv1.

I really don't like this slot. I see no reason for animorph to lurk that hard. I mean - he was here all the time! I hate him.

@startransmission. Where did you found "invisible text"?
"I have been lurking..." yes, "hard for me" not my problem - be good or replace out, "policy lynches" So what with policy lynches? Where did you saw one?
"Puzzled by this" - and thats all what you got?

@DeathRowKitty. What a nice person you are! I can't even FoS you. Just can't. I hope you not a scum.

Since animorph failed to pick up prod and very likely will be replaced I should
UNVOTE:
VOTE: startransmission

Now I briefly tell about my list of suspicions. In my notes each player gets own + and -. Besides the scummness which I count separatelly, I firmly prefer to vote for those people who have negative balance.
My watch list.
startransmission - fully negative, very scummy. Must die.
animorpherv1 - fully negative, very lurky. Must die.
DeathRowKitty - mixed, less scummy.
farside22 - negative and a little scummy.
yabbaguy - mixed, a bit lurky.

[Jora]

Yeah, good 'ld you-totally-misrepresenting-me!!!1111 defence in work. I exclude farside22 from my watch list, because havingfitz in fact has much more minuses.

@yabbaguy - Your opinion on startransmission? Why are you silently spectating?

[Jora]

Iners negotium?
You don't answering my questions, so I would be ignore yours.

[Jora]

There are lurkers abound (no Jora, I'm not one)

In my country we finding lurker with a sharp stick. If he dies after first stab it means he was a Jewish lurker.
Are you sure you not a lurker?

That said, now I can focus on finding your partners.

You want to find this woman's partner. Are you going to kick him in the face and then steal his woman?
I'm interested because aaa.. we have the same tradition in my country. It called Chafthshamush. I got my second wife in last year's Chafthshamush. My neighbor has no wife now. Me laughing at him! "Be-be-be, you have no wife now! You are cooking food and washing floor by yourself now!". Next year Chafthshamush I will steal his sheep.

[Jora]

@ cjdrum At psesent moment I have the equal reads on farside22 and havingfitz. May be they are not perfect, but I recommend you to unvote. Also, Imo being consistent and calm is not always means being scum. You wrote "Drawing attention away from oneself", is this really so? If she had stopped earlier, then no one would have voted for her.

Btw, I don't understand people who think that eventually startransmission will come and post something different. The only possibility to get something from him is to push him.

[Jora]

I feel bad for being a subject causing this brawl.

[Jora]

So, may be we should just lynch the animorph/bv slot as a compromise, and voilà! day is over, scum lynched. I saw star at least maked some attempts, but animorph/bv slot is a totally abusive null.

[Jora]

@ yabbaguy
1)*null* slot helps scum, right?
2)Equally it can be scum, right?
3)?????
4)PROFIT!

[Jora]

I'm waiting for something. Star? Bv? DRK?

[Jora]

Let's discuss yabbaguy's post 57. Now, first thing to notice is that it's post #57 and there are 57 Heinz varieties. Yes, you heard me correctly.

It's called The Chewbacca Defence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xywqv1cDH8

As for the rest nothing has been changed. My vote preferences: Star\TheJakalope, animorph\Bv, DRK, yabba.

[Jora]

If seriously, I don't feel like goona vote yabba nor Sundy, anyways.

[Jora]

1) No. I was literally shocked when realized the actual amount of games you had been being involved.
2) May be it had not been staged from very begining. But really in my opinion it was something wierd with that interfering. Or with your scumhunting. Or both.
3) I don't have a case on you. Just a strong suspicion. Even more, I guess it's nothing I can say that will make you or somebody else to be look scummy unless I claim PR with any (direct or indirect) guilty results. At current time the only thing which makes you scummy is your own posts.

[Jora]

@ DRK.
"If you think it was the interfering that was weird, then that's purely on ani's end of things."
Well, you are not in my top two of vote list, aren't you?
"look at my ani/Sundy theory, considering he was awkwardly interfering with my attack on Sundy."
In my games it was rather scum attacked his teammate for little or no reason than protected from inconsistent attacks of others.
"Do you really think that the things you're pointing out are things that make me likely scum?"
I have a gut feeling that you are scum. Not sure that I've pointed the right things though.

[Jora]

I don't know what useful to say today. I have rather positive reads on Sundy, but I must to agree with havingfitz.

[Jora]

ZeroFang, you are hypocrite. In what follows I bolded text in quotes to point why.

Actually,

you're putting a great focus on voting for lurkers

rather than people who have acted scummy. Which is suspicious in and of itself. If it were not for your other posts, I might be more suspicious of you. For now I'll stick with my belief that you're just an ancy towny. IGMEOY.

Call it pot-kettle-black all you want, but

I'm still of the belief that scum are in the mega-lurkers

. 'Cause there is no pot-kettle-black, that's the tu quoque fallacy.

Trouble is, I don't know which lurker

'cause they haven't done anything actively scummy. ._.

If you'd like to pursue that belief, it's quite easy.

Attack the lurkers

until they either spend so much time defending themselves that they expose themselves as scum, or they are forced to become a productive, active player in this game.

I <3 you yabba

. I'd love more activity from you. Pwease?

So, may be we should just lynch the animorph/bv slot as a compromise, and voilà! day is over, scum lynched. I saw star at least maked some attempts, but animorph/bv slot is a totally abusive null.

This post is exceptionally scummy. Suggesting the notion of lynching a slot just to end the day. What's more, Yabba was the only one that caught it, and he didn't pursue it like it needed to be pursued. This, coupled with the fact that Jora's been pushing lurker lynches instead of scumhunting raises my suspicion of him.

So he said we needed to attack the lurkers, but he blamed me for doing it. Also, he heavily trying to misrepresent me, like I was not scumhunting ever, like I had a strong scumm-read on somebody who was active but voted lurkers instead and so on.

BUTTERED TOAST
DRK: I don't think her arguments are based on emotion; love her 309. The inactive to active means nothing, and she is scum-hunting better than most in this game

DRK's 309 = IMO useless. It's just list of nicks with their

first two pages

posts numbers and unsubstantiated statements like someone is scummy and someone is not. Also, DRK's "scumhunting" is not impress me. I still remember his 14 items argument against me, and now it seems he just returned back on "Sundy's 1st post = scum" theory.

Jora (leaning scum): I didn't like his early game, and some of his more recent posts, like recommending cjdrum unvote, disagree with most of his reads. On the other hand, he has calmed down since the wagon and could simply be having the same problem as me in regards to getting into the game

First you are wrong: I supposed to be a leading town. But I must agree with your additional part on me. I really was feeling kind of lost in recent days - this game seemed boring. So, farside22's argument on TT's activity IMO is not exactly a scummtell.

[Jora]

I want to point out, in my limited experience, I've only seen non-cops ask this. Cops ask by PM. Scum would ask in the scum QT, or if it's the godfather himself, by PM. I hesitate to say Jora is not a threat, persay.

Your game experience is limited to this site, right? Yor havingfitz/me arguments have a slightly newb-catch up flavour.
However, I feel you are not so naive and actually not at all sincere with your reads. You are trying to look like inexperienced and make some blatant enhancements on your lack of experience.
* Zero looks on farside22 with admiring envy*: "Oh, farside22, you're so experienced! And you are town, I know it. So, don't look at me, me is just inexpirienced innocent little puppy, me is so nice to you, me simply can't do anything bad."

I'm sure one of ZeroFang/TheJakalope is scum. Not sure who exactly. Competing bandwagons FTW!

[Jora]

As I've previously mentioned I dreaming about TheJakalope vs ZeroFang competing wagons.

So, UNVOTE:
VOTE: ZeroFang

[Jora]

Holy Mother of Misrepresentation God! I'm not saying lurkers = scum. I'm saying you = scum. Also, nice try at accusing me of Borat's April joke.

[Jora]

The only thing which makes me doubt is this:

Usually when a player role gets to it's 3rd replacement I feel that slot is town regardless of how bad a player they are. I figure people who play mafia don't get many opportunities to be scum so when they do get the chance...they don't like to waste it. ani and bv have both been posting regularly since this game began so I take their absence to be lack of interest in this game/their position.

But I have some examples when scum was gone for replacement because of fear of loosing their reputation, because of disappointment of letting down his partner, or because of disappointment with his partner (I don't know what exactly they were thinking, all this is just my guessing). And personally I have had a hard times replacing into scum slot. When I going to replace I usually hope for pro-town role, because it's kind of unpleasant for me to start catching up and striking with a scum-team.

[Jora]

You realize before you did this vote there was only 36 hour left in the game.
If you going to switch votes at least push for a reason better then competing wagons.

Yes, I do realize that. Imo we already have a guaranteed lynch of The Jackalope, I can go back at any time. In the places where I usually playing mafia it is 24-hours long gays, so I confident with what I'm doing.

TheJakalope's claim is boring and does not change anything. Fell free to hammer him at any time you like.

[Jora]

OMG what a freud slip. Funny.

[Jora]

Jora: I'm already voting Jak and the claim doesn't change anything.

My bad. This was a second part of the speech where I was intended to address to other people.

[Jora]

VOTE: ToastyToast

All over. Give up, scum!

[Jora]

You know, all these posts against me are great and all, but....oh, they don't say anything.

What a town reaction we have here.

I can see cjdrum and yabba scum team.

I don't think so. Actually, good job, guys!

[Jora]

To be gonest, I've voted by inspirational wave that brings me yabba's post. I always liked a provocations and gambits, besides for some reason I like yabba (yeah, I know he maked all he could to make me suspicios of him, but anyways).
I was hoping for a nice reaction from Toast, because you know it's interesting time, no bodies at night, scum wavering, town PR gets their first info and no one knows for sure does SK exists or not. And something tells me that he was frightened when saying this

You know, all these posts against me are great and all, but....oh, they don't say anything.

Imagine you are him, imagine you are scum, what do you see: no NK (well I can believe that SK decided to hold his kill, but what reason is for mafias doing it?), yabba votes him with some scary numbers, me who was reading him as town last day, suddenly changing opinion. I see why he said something like"well you caught me, guys, just claim and I selfvote. .... Could we for the last speculate on night actions?"
On the other hand if he was a town I imagine he'd rather had started to screaming like "OMG, WTF scums are eating my brains!" and wouldn't be discussing night actions with those (cjdrum) who he called a scum.

I need to re-read his 1st day interactions, if i'll find some contradictions with my current feeling about him I'll unvote.

ZeroFang - you're next most closest suspect. Sadly I have only one vote.

[Jora]

Another interestig probability wich i considering as plausible is Mafia annihilated their shot at SK, SK was terrible close to a lynch (ZeroFang?) and decided not to soot, in order to make people look at another direction or simply missed his shot because of being offline (ZeroFang?). Or may be SK was far far away from a noose and decided to conceal himself for some reason (TastyToast? and mafias who hit him is yabba or cjdrum?).

[Jora]

Hmm...
1) Indeed. And this is no good. If you help me to change it, i'll unvote you.
2) Sorry, will not happen again.
3) 2 scums and one SK = three scums. Are you thinking that not all the bad guys are scums but only those who mafias?

[Jora]

My opinions on TT:
1. He has been сhasing yabba from early on. If yabba is a scum I'd expect he NKed TT rather than trying to lynch him. The reason why I mentioned this is IMO one of them is a scum for sure.
2. I fairly hate how TT designed this post. For some reasons in my games scums always maked a fancy styled reads.
3. Frankly I've failed to find much. But that is common, so my argument is his general play is very appropriate for a scum.
4. Agreed with farside about OMGUS. OMGUS-like reasonings very commonly used by scums.

[Jora]

So vote switching with 36 hours and a possible no lynch is a good idea to you Sundy?

Competing/swithing wagons is good no matter how late they are. May be I'm lucky or something but it quite often results in epic town-win when everybody doing their best till the very end of deadline.
So, I'll no hammer my lesser suspect for only reason of avoiding no-lynch untill we have at least 1 or 2 hours left.

Why no one is voting ZF?

[Jora]

I tend to rethink my last day position. TT had been voted by inspiration, and then I've found it being a good vote. ZF are still in my suspects. Just I'm not ready to decide whom I suspect most.

[Jora]

After long-long rethinking I'm not so sure about ZF scummness, but I would keep watching.
@ ZeroFang wrote "I would be voting for him except he's L-2 and the day is still young." <- This is OK, but I warn you: if you try any backpedaling without good reason I will not be happy.

[Jora]

I knew it. That guy is one BAD apple. Could we lynch DRK, right now, please?

Also, I love the way Sundy think. He must be town.

[Jora]

What is it you like about his thinking.

It was about the general way of his thinking. Newermind, I'm not quite sure with my reads on him and you right now.

I will get back here and try to figure out something tomorrow.

And isn't it a bit early for the hammer?!

[Jora]

I confident with TT lynch. Just I wanted to re-read something before day ends, but busy atm.

[Jora]

@ farside
I do agree with havingfitz, Cj is by no means a VI. And you, farside, had called him a VI at least once in past, I noticed it, but said nothing. Now I thinking there something is behind it. Could you clarify it please?

Also,

I don't like ZF's vote on him. I found it scummy as his reason's are not fleshed out. Plus the whole I want more talk while offering nothing to talk about is pretty certain that ZF = scum which makes TT town.

I don't like how ZF missed his hammer. I mean: this is a hammer how dammit he could miss it? Well it happens with townies too... but. I disagree with impossibility of ZF+TT team. It looks like ZF theatricality. Like: "Oh, I'm gonna hamma, hamma, hamma" then "ooops, missed it, not my fault it was others who messed it". So if TT flips scum he would be kinda clear.

[Jora]

Hmm... From what I've said (i.e. from my "chain" post above ^^^) I don't see how lynch would be chained (prolonged?) on ZF if you flip town. Which makes me think that you going to flip scum, and admit it.

[Jora]

However when I see someone vote for weak reason's while saying they want more time for discussion it rings all sorts of false bells in my head.
What is the point of saying lets talk more and in your next post saying, meh nothing is going on lets vote (thinking it's a hammer) TT.

I myself wouldn't call that a weak reason. Yes, I have not much evidences. In fact no strong scumtells at all - just guesswork. But I strongly feel TT is a scum.
And I was busy when saying that we shouldn't hurry with hammer, I was afraid to miss something. Now I am confident.
Also, I'm sorry, but I can't see Sundy & ZF as a scum team. May be I'm wrong, will see.

Hmm... From what I've said (i.e. from my "chain" post above ^^^) I don't see how lynch would be chained (prolonged?) on ZF if you flip town. Which makes me think that you going to flip scum, and admit it.

Because clearing ZF as town based on a town flip by me is still bad play and 2) I re-read that post. the las part "So if TT flips scum he would be kinda clear," what would be clear?

I don't think that ZF would be cleared as town by your flip, either. I would be null connection between you and ZF, then. In first post (related to this discussion) I had presumed only one connection - "if you flip scum -> ZF's alignment should be explored asap (farside was not quite correct imo; ZF will not have been forgotten in case if TT flips scum and vice versa; TT&ZF team is by no means impossible; TT -scum -> chain-> ZF is probably too)".

By the last part I meant "ZF is dramatically trying to distance from your scum-flip".

[Jora]

First qoute is farside, not TT.

[Jora]

My dreams comes true.
VOTE: DRK

[Jora]

Gender gives insight into psychology and I also just want to know.

Go to "face with a name" thread then. He's male.

[Jora]

Orrrr female (quite ugly one) . Eek!

[Jora]

Hell no.

I don't like case on cjdrum. Most of comments which DRK represent as a scumtells are actually

1) towntells in my eyes (like Post 21, Post 226 & Post 232, Post 318, Post 321 ).
2) misreps (like Post 263, like when DRK talking about admitting OMGUS in Post 425 he refering to Post #265 (!))
3)null tells - many of them.
4)and some scum tells are not really strong in the considered context (like Post 187 - yes, "more scummy people" and spreading suspicious generally are scumtells, but look at it closer - I really don't find this scummy)

This is the second time I see DRK's wall of bullshit-case. The first one was about me, so I very sceptical about the second. However, this particular catch-up should be taken into account. I still thinking there is something town in DRK, despite our disagreement with regards to cjdrum. May be he just kinda tunnelled on cj. I don't think that he spend an equal time considering someone another (like TT).

UNVOTE:

Yes, I'm too lazy to make a post-by-post analisis. I really hate all post-by-post analisis, but I have some indirect evidences (level of activity, reactions and some TT's posts which I had commented earlier) and more important: THE GUT FEELING!!!

VOTE: ToastyToast

[Jora]

farside22, I found your reasons to call cj a VI to be quite satisfying. I had asked because I was courious (not suspicious). Cj's play was good for a newbie imo. Nevermind.

Sundy and ZF? I think i need to go back and re-read. In short (with looking only to my outdated remarks): I think sundy is town, ZF is a plausible scum. I need to sleep, also I will be very busy in May. Hopefully I will get here to post my last reads.

[Jora]

God! I was so damn blind with this game. I missed TT's claim. *facepalm*
farside22, Magua - you can't be the scumtem, because ZF was too much naturally buddying to farside. So, I gonna believe one of you.
ChannelDelibird - claim, please.

[Jora]

havingfitz, Sundy, you would not get DRK lynched anyways. Maybe at least one of you will vote TT, just in case CDB claim or something?

[Jora]

This game sucks. I think massclaim will make it much funnier tomorrow.

[Jora]

I already feel how CDB flips town. I know it's wifom, but if he would be scum, he probably do something... I don't know - fakeclaimed, or get gone, but not this - you see he still trying to help this town.

havingfitz, if you feel in similar way, vote for TT, maybe someone help. I think TT's lynch would be better.

[Jora]

farside22? TT? farside22? TT? farside22? TT? farside22? TT?

[Jora]

Yeh, I meant: farside22: TT? farside22: TT? farside22: TT? farside22: TT? farside22: TT?

[Jora]

I know ut seems like my D1 TT vote, but not. This time I'm sure.

VOTE: Sundy

Not ready yet to publish my reasonings.
Just brief on what I found so far:

farside22, havingfitz, ToastyToast are innocents.

Which leaves: DeathRowKitty, Sundy, yabbaguy as possible scums. I have no case on DeathRowKitty. That leaves Sundy, yabbaguy. Case later.

[Jora]

On second thoughts, no. UNVOTE:

No matter how strong my feelings are, sorry farside, I should listen to Fonz: "Farside22 is always scum".

VOTE: yabbaguy

[Jora]

*facepalm*

[Jora]

Sorry, I have not tme to finish editting this case.... just hope you'll get it. It's very important!

The two of most possible setups are:
DV**TTT = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather
DV*TTTT = 2 Goons + Godfather, Serial Killer (Doc Bypass, Block Bypass, Kill Immune)

We have no SK last night, we have an explanation for 1st day two kills (yeah, that was vigging) = we know for sure that SK not exists.
Also, we knew Magua/ZF/... Doc flip.
How much does that brings? A LOT!



DeathRowKitty

farside22 i
havingfitz i

Sundy

ToastyToast i

yabbaguy

}|{opa i

- Yes, what did you expected? I've made all this case, I must be town. Which of you, lazy bastards, did somethig as good as this awesome case so far?


Scums themselfs doesn't knew about SK before D2. Therefore they was frightened on D1 only.
In a game with mafia team and a serial killer, an evil player who knows he can be killed by the other team will tend to avoid a leadership position, and avoid showing himself to be among the best players, because he doesn't want to be killed. He'll be more under the radar - he doesn't have to be the quietest...he just needs to be less aggressive and less of a threat than some of the other players.
That's called Cerwyn's Bible.


In D2 scums already got that here should not be a SK. Who was happy about this?

yabbaguy

>guilty - his posting style became much more intent in D2

Sundy

>guilty - his posting style became much more intent in D2
farside22>rather innocent - was on top before D2 and nothing had changed
havingfitz>rather innocent - was on top before D2 and nothing had changed

Next question of the day: who was healed by Magua/ZF?

}|{opa (me)>healed? Yes, I'd like to think so....
"ZF's last D1 posts: he went heavy on me ", "then suddently->get off me"
Magua: "Jora - Really liked Jora D1."
Oh, he healed me, how sweet, isn't it obv? hurray!

But just for fun lets look at ToastyToast.
TT>healed? Looks like - ZF started to protect him.
OR NOT ZF:"I am very pro-TT lynch."
>OR yes?

Magua: "So ZeroFang was right on a lot of things. But he was drop dead wrong on ToastyToast. So wrong it hurts my head."
Magua: "I think Toasty is town. I thought Toasty was town before his VT claim, and his claim didn't change my townread on him."
Magua: "I'm *really* not interested in voting Toasty."
SUCK MY DUCK! NOOOOOOO.... ZF WAS HEALING TT!!!!!

And there was no NK. Therefore Toasty is Probable Innocent.

I'd say Nearly Confirmed Innocent, taking into account all the data in this post.

TT voters were:

yabbaguy

, }|{opa, cjdrum
Looks like yabbascum called Doc out of his shell.

Second was scum probably here:
cjdrum - 2 - havingfitz,

DeathRowKitty

Sundy - 1 - farside22

yabba see ZF not voting, he investigating:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p2984369
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p2986335

So,
ZF faking like this: "I am very pro-TT lynch." Then he goes..... goes..... and missed his hammer. What a shame!

I know, this my postdoesn't looks good either.

But I didn't knew that TT's had been shot by yabba. And then yabba tried to lynch him to see who was Doc.
And, [just go look at the D2 and watch and you'll see] If you would be scum, and you shot TT who somehow survived this attempt....

clearly ZF was obv Doc.

farside22> probably innocent caseX2

farside22 unvotes, goes Sundy
OR NOT
"Actually since no one seems to respond to the case and ZF has some people's attention and I find TT more null then scum. vote: ZF"

yabbaguy&Sundy = OBVSCUM caseX2

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p2987543
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p2989777

havingfitz>is probaply innocent caseX2

Look carefully: all the targets are confirmed/nearly confirmed
he unvoted cjdrum

Votecount 2.07

ToastyToast

- 4 - }|{opa, cjdrum, ZeroFang, yabbaguy

cjdrum

- 2 - DeathRowKitty, ToastyToast

ZeroFang

- 2 - Sundy, farside22

Not Voting: havingfitz

Then he goes DRK
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3002139

DeathRowKitty>probable guiltyX2

He was only one who is not confirmed off wagon.

Votecount 1.15

TheJakalope

- 6 - yabbaguy, farside22, havingfitz, ToastyToast, ZeroFang, Sundy
Sundy - 2 - DeathRowKitty,

cjdrum

yabbaguy - 1 -

TheJakalope

ZeroFang - 1 -

}|{opa

Also, he had maked 2 BIG cases on me and cjdrum. Both on those whom I'm know to be town.

Fixed url tags. ~~NS

[Jora]

Ok, it could be farside. However, I still think it was TT.
The reason why I thought Yabba shot him is his vote on TT. Logic: scums want to unmask the Doc, so one of them vote the target.
It could be farside, though. In that case I really don't know what made Magua's head hurt about ZF's vote on TT.

Anyways, I really should UNVOTE: , I see a lot of reasons to support Farside:
VOTE: Sundy

[Jora]

@ Farside. Yep, I think you did a right thing.
IMO Fitz-mafia simply not interested in killing Farside-town. Because he kind of hiding behind this Fitz vs Farside debate.

[Jora]

What? No.

[Jora]

I'm bored.

[Jora]

I'm too, but rather waiting for replacements to cast their votes so we could get Sundy lunched.
Waiting doesn't make any sense, because I suspect farside to be town, so if we are wrong and Sundy is town too - he would be lynched anyways.

[Jora]

Having read further, I get a strong feeling that the bad guys could be yabba or toast or }|{opa, or

Amy

combination of those three.

Who the hell is Amy?

havingfiz: Sundy must be lynched (not lunched - that was typo)

[Jora]

My eyes are bleeding!
izak, WTF?
Stop messing with color tag pl0x.

[Jora]

Oh, great news, everyone!

Now we have a lynch, shall we?

-Jora -Can I call you Butterfly?

Whatevs.

[Jora]

Agreed, it is C9++. We have only one scum. Because Serial Killer is Block immune in all the setups. Therefore it is TTTTTVD or TTTVD** (more likely).

I think it's the time for a massclaim. Let's discuss.
I think Midnight's Sorrow (yabba replacement, my biggest suspect) should claim first.

[Jora]

Why does MS have to go first though?

Well, TT is alredy had claimed. It is suggested that mass claim should be going in order from top public suspect.
Is there somebody who does not suspecting MS as the prime or second possibility for a last scum?

[Jora]

Sure

[Jora]

I'm too. VT

@ havingfitz, please?

[Jora]

What did TT claim? And where do I come on this list?

D2: TT claimed VT. It's up to fitz to decide who should claim after him etc., we have enough time to complete such queue.

[Jora]

*facepalm* I really need sleep. Out.

[Jora]

ToastyToast, fitz was right. I think Godfather flips as Mafia member too. But wait, guys. Just one more thing...

@ izak - answer please, what is your role, and where did DRK claimed it before? Even if you were just mistaken, show the DRK's qoute which you misinterpreted as a claim.

[Jora]

Reading in progress.... Comlete.

Sundy was bussing Toast, DRK and Fitz. No contacts with yabba. I don't belive that DRK/gomba is his partner.
So currently I thinking it's Midnight's Sorrow, if not, TT.

Buuuuut.... wait..... Is't it too obvious? I was so wrong. ZF never healed Toast.
Then I've asked to myself: why Sundy was avoiding to vote TT on D2? Yet he jumped to DRK as soon as he saw the oportunity for a wagon. Btw, it was fitz who voted DRK, and DRK was almost lynched because of that.

I think, that ZF was right about this:

I could definitely see Sundy-TT scumteam. Sundy accuses toast early when it wont matter, and backs off in the very next post. He disagrees with toast a lot and think's he's scum, but always behind someone else. He's extremely forgiving of TT, going so far as to defend his motives, and suprisingly never pushes for his lynch even though he seems to be high up in his scum list.

Indeed, TT and Sundy is good looking scumteam! I see it more and more.

They had spread their pressure into varous directions:

TT

: Jora, Yabbaguy, TheJackalope, cjdrum
That's classic - Sundy placed in the right middle of TT's null tells.

Sundy

: Havingfitz, DRK, ZeroFang/BV/animorph, Farside


VOTE: ToastyToast

I hope you town, Midnight's Sorrow, I really do. But if Toast flips as town I will go after you.

[Jora]

*Sundy had been placed

[Jora]

Don't be confused with his [Toast] early vanilla claim on D2. Since scums knowed the setup at that moment, obviously it was better to claim VT and hiding among the larger group of players, instead of fakeclaiming a sole remaining PR.

[Jora]

*keep hiding

[Jora]

Yes, probably you missed that part:

Mafia and SK abilities are not revealed on death. They merely flip "Mafia" and "Serial Killer"

i.e. godfather may be dead by now. Imo Godfather's death not equels to the mafia's defeat.
The only Godfather's ability is that he will be shown to the (Sane) Cop as not guilty.

The setup (TTTTT = 2 Goons + Godfather) seems plausible. It is 5xT=3 scums and two PR.
Obviously that is the case. Just read the rules thoroughly and you'll get it.

[Jora]

If TT flips Town, that makes me Scum, so you'll be on my ass? By what kind PoE are we looking at here?

Anyways.

From my point of view I think the scums are in Jora and TT.

In other words, in the ideal world you will lynch me and then, in LyLo, you will lynch TT.
So what is your reason of finding izak or fitz to be not worthing of lynch. Isn't it an equivalent to town read in this situation?

I think that havingfitz is less plausible as a Sundy's partner, because of their wierd interactions.
If they were partners, what was the point in this: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2962406
or that vote: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3002413

I don't believe that it all was set up.

I think that DRK is not a scum, based on this:
DPK
DPK/DRK?
Sundy was playing from mobile, so first time he could not spell it correct. I guess that was not faked.
Also, I had a theory that DRK is his partner and posted in QT from the nick "DPK".
But little meta-research had proved inconsistence of this theory: DRK used "DRK" as a QT nickname in past games.
DRK: Are you in fact a girl?? I thought I was corrected when I called you she…
vote DRK
That vote sticks well. He almost get DRK lynched on D2, whithout good reason.
Finally, izak voted Sundy and came on this page:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &start=800

-vote
-selfvote
-WTF? I, No... *crying*
-murderer
-Oh crap, I spelt "oh" as "I".
-MURDERER
-cheap laugh, heh, heh.

God dammit!
If Izak and Sundy is a scum team they deserved not only the victory but Oscar Award!

[Jora]

sort of... it depends

[Jora]

You, not me, are the one saying that if TT is lynched and flips Town, that that automatically makes me scum. With no room for any other possibility.

Maybe something will change things, but I've re-read the thread many times and found top two to be of you and TT. Maybe I should have such a room, but I have no time to find out. There is only two lynches left.

[Jora]

Why are you thinking that midnight is less of a scum, than fitz. Sundy was bussing Fitz. This was classic: voted you and FoSed fitz. That suspicious indeed, but he unvoted you, too soon. He mentioned Fitz so many times, he was bussing him. But then he agreed with Fitz and voted DRK. That suggests innocence of Fitz. Usually scum takes single-valued position towards his partner.

Blah, too much of a wifom. Lets just do this. I'm tired!

[Jora]

Yeah!!!

Havingfitz and Izak, I love you guys! Congrats!

Special thanks to
Farside for hunting,
Sundy for hiding (not lurking),
ZeroFang for being good doctor,
Cjdrum for being obvtown your lynch was lame,
ChannelDelibird for being good replacement,
Magua for his brilliant town tells,
DeathRowKitty for sense of humor,
yabbaguy for fooling me,
ToastyToast, your lynch was totally my fault
Midnight's Sorrow for being obvscum (no offence but theoretically you could make town win much much harder i.e. I think you could win , but you kind of gived up/gived ).
others without whom we could not get this fun game as it was
And of course I want to thank Nobody Special for modding this great game!