Open 295 -- Island Paradise Mafia -- Game Over

[Sundy]

Hola people. What a bloody beginning.

VOTE: Animorph

"We can't tell you who we are. Or where we live."

[Sundy]

Hmmm. I just never saw a game where someone died before it even started, much less two. Seems kind of pointless for those people to even have signed up. As for being "nervous," Kitty, you outright apologized in advance for making a joke about the NK lest someone misinterpret you.

Random questions:

Setup speculation

: I generated a couple random set-ups myself to get a handle on the open set-up. I think it is useful, but moreso towards the end of the game. With Opa already guessing it's the TTTTCVB set-up, speculation can easily slide into PR speculation.

Events of N0

: It basically panned out as if we already had one day of play with gains for town & scum, with a successful lynch and Mafia picking a powerful NK. Except without the discussion to pick up connections. I'd rather it start with talking than night actions.

Farside: Why did you say you were "frightened as hell" by Kitty, and then follow her case? What scared you about her posts?
Kitty: You said 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14 were scummy examples. 5, 6, 7 and especially 14 apply to Toast, the person who asked the RQS. Do you still think Opa is scummy knowing that?

[Sundy]

@farside, I read it as you being "frightened" by someone you had a town read on, which made you look weird. Btw what did Kitty turn out to be in the last game you played?

@ everyone else, I have to catch up tomorrow, I've been procrastinating this spring break so now my weekend = paper, reading two theses, and physics midterm.

[Sundy]

@farside, can you answer my question re: Kitty?

[Sundy]

OK I have beautifully caught up.

I will not vote Opa, & want more discussion. The most suspicious thing about his play is possible role-fishing. He first hazards that it's a TTTTCV set-up. Later, when he's accused of role-fishing, he refers back to THIS post responding to the accusation, even though the accuser was talking about a different post (guilty conscience?). Later he says he was trying to lull Toast into role-fishing, and in general seems super interested in discussion on PRs. The self-vote is confusing, so please un-vote Opa. It's against your win condition no matter what, and it's bad form!

@Opa: Why do you say Toast into obv-scum?

Current L-1 aside, I am more interested in

VOTE: Toast

#20: He says he's waiting for Yabba to post and "votes on him will likely trigger a response of some sort," yet he doesn't vote (why?)
#23: He wants RQS to get the game moving; Startransmission asks why he's not asking RQS
#31: He says he would ask questions but he's afraid of people getting on his back

(BTW I think DRK's analysis of Toast is wrong in #71; she says Toast' RQS wasn't scummy in context "someone telling him to come up with questions and him just kind of blindly throwing them out there," but I think that ignores how he brought those questions upon himself.)

I've also got a

FOS: Havingfitz

for voting twice in RVS, his second vote in an especially odd moment given the flow of the game, because someone just complained about random votes happening when scum-hunting had started

And where is Animorph?

[Sundy]

EBWOP: Opa: Why do you say Toast is obv-town?

[Sundy]

You are correct about the vote on Yabba. I that there was a pattern of 2 things you advised for town without doing yourself. Confirmation bias re: Start's accusation.

Actually, RQS is helpful because you get reactions. I use it to reactionfish. And, yeah, they are my questions, so you should be voting me.
Given that your vote is based on both the questions themselves and }|{opa's response, I would venture to say that it is helpful.

Question, Toast: You said you don't like RQS because you get people on your back, and it's "viewed as completely unhelpful." But you yourself find it helpful, as per quote above. Did you get any notable reactions from the questions you chose? Was RQS helpful this time?

[Sundy]

Hmmm. The main reasons I was suspicious of Toast are wrong:

unvote

. His initial posts in the game made it seem like he was making recommendations about RQS & voting Yabba both in order to get the game moving, but not following through with doing these things himself. I also think looking back over the Toast/Opa ISOs that they are accusing each other too often of role-fishing to actually be a scum-team. Not ready for a re-vote yet...

@Havingfitz, I have a question about your #109. 7 of your points seem to be against DPK, and you're generally casting suspicion on her scum-hunting. You agree with Opa twice on this list, and then say he is role-fishing and vote for him accordingly. What did you think of DPK's play when she was accusing Opa? You ended up voting for the same candidate. And are you fine with a policy lynch on the first day, especially given how far into it we are?

[Sundy]

@Fitz: you said of Opa you were fine with "letting drama kings commit suicide" since a self-vote is anti-town regardless of alignment.

[Sundy]

@Fitz: you said of Opa you were fine with "letting drama kings commit suicide" since a self-vote is anti-town regardless of alignment.

So how is that supporting a policy lynch when my vote was already on him? If I had had no prior suspicions of }|{opa I would not have voted him for based on his self-vote alone...though it would have been, and is, a negative IMO.

You said you were fine with him committing suicide, and that would really mean he had four other people on his wagon, including one who have to vote after his self-vote. I looked up the definition of policy lynch of wiki, and it's true you're not voting for a reason EXCLUDING scumminess, but you are still advocating for a lynch that is partly based on behavior you said would be blame-worthy regardless of his alignment. Do you think he should be killed now?

DPK, you said you think Fitz is town, but also say this:

You know what else is "negative"? This: "While I didn't realize I had placed you at L-2"
Good townie Rule #1: you should always count votes before going on bandwagon.
And this: "Maybe you have 4 votes because you are coming across as scummy " Good point, isn't it?

You're quoting Fitz there. Did you think he was breaking the "good townie rule"? Does that make you suspicious or not? Or did you think he had a good point when he said you were being scummy? And why are you still voting for yourself?

@Farside, in which situation would a self-vote not be idiotic?

[Sundy]

Gah why do I suck at reading vote counts? No more posting between classes.

Yes I meant Opa who i was quoting, not DPK/DRK

[Sundy]

I need to go onto V/LA until Monday, with an emphasis on the LA. My senior thesis is due on Monday and I will try to check in while I'm writing, but it will mostly be when I'm trying to procrastinate.

[Sundy]

I'm back from V/LA. Re-read forthcoming!!

[Sundy]

OK so some things I am observing on a read through of the thread:

The BV/Animorph slot has EXCEEDINGLY few posts and virtually no interactions. Happily, BV, this is something you can remedy right away, it looks like, since all you have to do is "format" (???) your thoughts…

Vote BV

, please share your thoughts ahora mismo, I can do with some bad punctuation.

Not liking CJdrum's interaction with Toasty. First off his initial FOS post is on the wrong player at first. When he switches to toast, posts 8-12 is basically how mad he is that Toasty's voting him, with very little to say on how Toasty might be bad on his own merits. His vote post is basically calling Toast hypocritical for voting a lurker. Toast reiterates his case on CJ in the next post, and CJ abruptly switches to farside (because "she's got it all under control)" with no more mention of Toast.
@CJ: do you think Toast is suspicious or not, and -- if not -- what changed your mind?

@Startransmission… what's your view of Fitz? I notice this is basically your only hint of suspicion in the game, but it's a little vague. Please expand. ON fitz and in general.

[Sundy]

actually

unvote

, just read the mod in ISO and realized we're looking at a replacement and that vote won't go anywhere til the replacement catches up with the game

So answers from CJ & Start please?

[Sundy]

@CJ did you have a non-OMGUS reason for voting Toast?

You gave a color-coded post listing the reasons that Farside was scum (lol that is actually awesome color-coding), and after one tiny little recommendation from Jora you're convinced to unvote and you say they "kind of balance each other out." How do Fitz' posts balance out your previous accusations of farside?

[Sundy]

Did I have a non-OMGUS vote... I didn't see it as OMGUS, at the time, but if I'm honest with myself it probably was.

And about the little nudge from Jora: I hadn't fully read through the argument - only the last few posts, in which farside looked far scummier... But when Jora mentioned his equal reads, I felt obliged to read more thoroughly, at which point I saw that neither really was scummier than the other - rather, they had their phases, as if they were just orbiting around on opposite sides of scummy.

IMO your response to their argument is disturbingly vague. Most of the fight revolved around the bandwagon on Jora, but you've given absolutely no indication of what you thought of the case on Jora, and your only point was about Farside's demeanor, and then you retracted it to say fitz/farside balance each other out in terms of scumminess (or non-scumminess??). Can you give more specifics as to what your read of the fight is?

@Farside, why did you get a town-read from CJ in the Toast/CJ fight?

[Sundy]

A good start. I don't like Jora's bv reasons a) because he's now the millionth person to use that stupid ???-PROFIT cliché and b) because it lynches a null slot where an at least somewhat active slot could actually buy us something.

I don't really get why killing Start would give any more insight than killing animorph/bv. He's basically made no stances throughout the game, so what's a flip going to tell us? Even if you want to kill a lurker, I think BV's "format" post looks more scummy, since it implies he's written up thoughts but hasn't published them.

CJ = not responded to my question = IGMEOY.

[Sundy]

Anyway, sorry for not posting, I'm waiting for Sundy's answer to my question - Which, in fact, I posted only 25 minutes after their post.
(Sundy's post; my post)

The reason why I'm asking for more specifics on YOUR view of Fitz/farside, it's because you've been changing your vote based on your purported read of this debate. But all you've said of real substance is that they have "phases" of scumminess, and you don't know who to vote for. No justification for your changing reads, and no reasoning. The best analysis came here, and after Jora devoted half a sentence to challenging you, you immediately changed your mind and went with his read.

@Yabba: Why praytell is dodging questions not a scum tell?

[Sundy]

Ok I broke my computer on Sunday so I've been reading via phone.

I'm liking CJ/Toast's reactions to my questions, good vibes in general. Lurkers: Both have finally done things that can give reads. Jakalope's vote on Yabba was weird. Explain more please.

But...

vote: Fang

I originally thought he was being useful and trending up, but I re-read the last page and there's something's off on his finally voting Jora. His suspicions don't seem to add up to his vote. He twice makes a point that's essentially "IMGEOU but I think you're town for now." He says Jora is focusing on lurkers rather than scum-hunting (whereas I think Jora has been actively hunting), and condemns him for suggesting we lynch a lurker. He finally has fitz and Jora as suspects (been EXTREMELY vocal on Fitz, for reasons that seemed more plausible) and --when pressured to vote by fitz who challenges his read, goes for Jora and says he's "already explained why." don't like it.

[Sundy]

EBWOP: also Fang's capitalized big font NO LURKING post was a bit much tbqh

[Sundy]

on Fitz, for reasons that seemed more plausible

Please elaborate. Which reasons for suspecting me do you consider plausible? Do you support the reasons you find plausible?

His read on you was better than that on Jora. He said Jora was going after lurkers to the exclusion of scum-hunting (meh?) and that Jora was scummy for suggesting a bv lynch (plausible discussion and bv was a better lynch at the time than the other lurker-- which is still true incidentally even if fang is no longer lurking). 

Of you, he said your vote on Farside was weak (true) and that you stuck to it to the point of advocating her lynch (true) In fact farside's first vote emerged because like Fang you also abandoned a more grounded scum read (on DRK) to go after jora instead. Except fang also provided reasons for thinking jora was town so his eventual vote made even less sense. 

@fang, your #391 suggests a town read on fitz, is this accurate? Why the town read given your other observations and your analysis on his vote on jora?

[Sundy]

Sundy...you have asked more than a few people for their opinion of me. If I'm not mistaken you have mentioned me more than anyone else in your ISO. What's up. Are you still FoSing me? What have your numerous queries to others regarding me told you?

Hmm I didn't realize how many times I'd brought you up in conversation with other players until I re-read my ISO. However all these questions were about things the players said, not about you specifically. These questions haven't told me anything about your alignment as of yet, but I expect they will shortly.

Start: You were his only suspect in the game here, but he gave no reasons for thinking such. He later said he was slightly more suspicious of Jora, but at the same time he said he had no idea what was going on. If Jakalope ends up flipping scum, this will make you look good, because I doubt scum's going to give their only scum read on thir buddy.

Jora: Just thought it was odd that he said you were breaking townie rules while still having a town read on you. Not much to learn here.

CJ had a wispy interpretation of your fight with Farside, at one point he says he's "waiting for scummy" which implies he's over the bad read on both of you and wants a stronger scum-slip before placing his vote, but later says that at least one of you is probably scum. This isn't very well thought out, but the overall impression I get from the posts is that he's not sure who's scummy and his confusion seems genuine.

Fang: Now this would be a very interesting scenario if he flipped scum. He has a town read even though his posts have negative or neutral reads on you, yet he still comes up with a town read. Why is this? I say this puts you in a bad light if Fang is bad.

As for what I think of you overall, Fitz: You're in the "very active" category list of posters, good job on that, but there's been more suspicious things about your play than anyone else on that list. Your introduction to the game was awkward, you voted Jora when your arguments against DRK were more persuasive and numerous, you promoted Jora's lynch when he was at L-1 (except this no longer seems very scummy, because it would have been insightful if someone hammered), and your suspicion of Farside was based quite literally only on her suspicion of you. And to boot: You're posting pages about how much you dislike ZeroFang's arguments (understandable since they're about you), but still going for Jakalope instead. Why is that? Do you think Fang is scum or misguided town?

And I think Fang is a better lynch than Jakalope. Jakalope's posts have been ridiculous, but he seems bored and disengaged, and there's basically no scum reads from him or his predecessors. Fang, on the other hand, has been both scummy, and he also has an extensive interpretation of the game that will make his flip more instructive imo.

[Sundy]

@Farside: I can read and that's fine, I don't have any questions for you at the moment. You asked me to clarify why your name came up so often.

Personally I think that people are more likely to replace out of a game as scum. It requires more mental effort then playing as town when you can just blab away without a second thought. It's the same logic that says that lurkers get scum points. Anyway, if people want to lynch Jakalope, then we should probably get a claim soon so we have time to discuss it.

[Sundy]

EBWOP: @Fitz not Farside. And I was so happy about the alliteration of talking about a Fitz/Farside fight...

[Sundy]

Hammer time.

unvote, vote Jakalope

[Sundy]

I disagree with Toasty case, and I don't like the way the bandwagon developed as CJ & Jora hopped right on there. CJ especially seems to be voting becasue of a purported "very hard and fast decision" Toasty made about the presence of a SK, when in fact Toasty was just speculating. Jora... odd post, but as people already said, he looks odd in general. And then there's Yabba, but I'd be more confident following yesterday's case if he didn't say he was sure based on "self-confidence bias."

@Farside, please tell me what your vote is based on. You presented absolutely no reasons in your vote post, and when I looked back over your ISO from Day 1, I'm seeing that you repeatedly bring me up sorta indirectly at the end of the day, and the ONLY justification you ever provide is that I [Sundy] "remind me [Farside] of my own play as scum before."

[Sundy]

Sundy: If you actually read my post you would see my POV on who I believe is town and why. Each explination is there. the rest fall under scum category or null
IE: you, TT and ZF.

Your play is exactly how I expect scum to behave in a game they just lost their scum partner. Asking pointless questions that lead no where. No pushing a case on anyone and withholding opinion till the end of the day to cast a worthless vote.

I did "actually" read your post, Farside in fact I read your whole ISO in search of an ACTUAL case so that I could answer any questions you have. But you (and ZF might I add) are using vague arguments that boil down to "I already decided everybody else is town, therefore the next lynch is X."

And it's not like you have one iron-clad POV on who's town and you've therefore decided on your next lynch by process of elimination. In the quoted post, you're saying that TT/ZF & I are scummy or null even though you've recently been defending TT. You actually also said that ZF was off your list recently too. Normally I'd say it's a town sign that you're changing your views on players (if it's based on EVIDENCE or GAME-PLAY), but the process of elimination game doesn't work so well when your reads are mercurial, and you give town-reads on TT/Zero in post #58 RIGHT BEFORE you're now calling scum or null.

You can claim my questions were pointless all you want, but the responses to them helped me develop my reads even though they didn't necessarily lead to me wanting to lynch someone. The statement that I haven't pushed cases is not true. In fact I was the first to vote Fang while you were busy yukking it up with him and saying you wanted to kiss him. And while you seem to have ignored that post, you today praise Jora who "mentioned some interesting points on ZF that earned my [town] view," even though AT THE TIME you derided him for distracting you from your plans to lynch Jakalope.

This might be OMGUS, but I'm starting to get a creepy feeling about you Farside. Maybe the OMGUS is justified because you're pushing a lynch for vague reasons on me, the only person I know is town.

I realize I'm not getting the most brilliant people here as backers to my wagon, but come on. I've already told you why Jora has Town intent, and I fail to see how cjdrum is even being considered as possible scum. Sundy, I'm looking at you.

Great, you told me Jora/CJ have town intent. Guess what-- I don't take your word for it, and I wouldn't trust any players' town read on another player too much without a good reason.

Re-read forthcoming later today or tomorrow. My eye is on the Fang and the Farside, the lurker-turned-active, and Mrs. Experienced. I'm getting a hunch.

[Sundy]

Sundy: What do you call vague? Your saying your questioning lead you to ZF who was a replacement of .......bv/morph. How do the questions you asked lead you to ZF?

I didn't say they led to ZF, I say they helped me read of the game. Especially with the way TT responded to the questions I put him.

And yes, I already read the post in which you described every player with two words, declared a subset town, and claimed that justified a case on me. In fact I even helpfully paraphrased your line of argumentation:

"I already decided everybody else is town, therefore the next lynch is X."

And I notice that you're complaining that I'm vague for suggesting the possibility that you might be scum (SHOCKING I know), but you also cut out the points I made about your play:

1) You gave town reads on TT & ZF immediately before you put them in the "scum category or null" with me, which shows that your town reads amount to a hill of jumping beans
2) You claimed to like Jora's views on ZF even though at the time he expressed them you were telling him to shut up so that the lynch on Jakalope would go through.

Also the bandwagon on CJ is worse than the bandwagon on TT. Fitz votes with "I just get a scummy feeling," and DRK doesn't expand at all upon his vote. Also Toast, but Toast obviously just wants the bandwagon off him so that's a bit more forgivable (assuming he's town). CJ's made me look twice in Day 2, but anything he did was done x2 by Fitz/DRK.

[Sundy]

iPhone mafia. Ok when Jora first started accusing ZF:

You realize before you did this vote there was only 36 hour left in the game.
If you going to switch votes at least push for a reason better then competing wagons.

Jora: I'm already voting Jak and the claim doesn't change anything.

It doesn't sound here like you're too enthralled with Jora's reasoning. More like brushing it off and saying its not worth a vote switch.

Day 2 you briefly suggest Jora's lack of a vote on ZF is "odd" given his previous posts but don't put him in your top 3 suspects. 

then you give him a town read for these same posts...

jora mentioned some interesting points on ZF that earned my view and Yabba's recent post and view I see more what I expected from day 1.

...even though you ignored them when they were made and THEN very subtly implied he was scummy for not coming back to them?

So what exactly DID/DO you think of jora's points on ZF? 

[Sundy]

gah Farside. I do agree that a no lynch is a bad idea. But when the lynch on Jakalope was impending, you didn't say "good point, Jora," but only said it later on, even while simultaneously casting slight aspersions on Jora. You find Jora "odd, but not enough to say [he's] scum," but also like his point enough "to keep an eye on ZF." Do you not see ANY ambiguity contradiction in your read in the game? Re: your #482 post, yes I read what Jora said at the time, and agreed with him because he was going for the ZF lynch, and showing ZF's contradictions.

@Farside w/r/t #516: You're giving me weird vibes, because you're giving very detailed explanations for your play, but also repeatedly pushing lynches on people I don't think are bad (not to mention me), while halfway seeming to protect people like ZF who do seem bad. Reading your posts and trying to figure out if you might be scum is kinda like climbing up a greased mountain. Also, why am I responsible for calling out DRK for ignoring your question? Which question are you even talking about?

@ZF w/r/t ISO #19: your activity may have tapered off, but you stepped out of your shell and gave several reads on the game. That's why I no longer thought of you as a lurker with a null-read.

Time for

VOTE: ZF

.

Much better plan than CJ/Toast. All he's done is demand of Yabba/Toast a concise list of reasons to vote the other (seems to be saying there's no case on either), and then later says he's "very pro-TT lynch." His case is a broad generalization about his play, and then he says Toast's vote on CJDrum is scummy.

@ZF: Why is Toast scummy for his vote and not Fitz, DRK, CJ & Jora, who also hopped on a bandwagons with limited reasoning?

[Sundy]

I voted you before Jora did, ZF

Farside: DRK didn't vote me. You did. Unfocused complaints aren't as relevant for me to respond to as an actual case (however weak) with a vote. The rest of your post, I'm honestly not sure what you're talking about. Your obviously accusing me of lying, but the content/substance as to why is not clear to me

[Sundy]

Farside, I am curious about something. What exactly is your read on ZF? You have mentioned several times that you find him suspicious and asked other players why they're voting or not voting him given prior suspicions (Jora, TT, me). You demand of him in your ISO #80 that he answer your questions. In #82, you say "the only reason I'm not pushing at ZF right now is that my eyes are glued on you." You've brought him up quite frequently but never directly analyzed his play, why is that?

I think farside was trying to ask me something, I'll hammer as soon as I get a response. That could be later tonight.

What do you mean by this ZF?

ALSO, DRK: Are you in fact a girl?? I thought I was corrected when I called you she…

[Sundy]

Sundy and farside...what are your thoughts ons cj and TT? Apologies if you have already provided them...I'm still waking/catching up after my short v/LA.

The bandwagons on both are more suspicious than the players themselves. If anything CJ is a little worse than TT.

ZF: When exactly did I play follow the leader?

[Sundy]

ZeroFang and Toast both have a very low activity level overall. I'm not surprised ZeroFang has just reverted to his old lurky McLurkerson ways, and Toast's post size is low. Again, I still prefer the latter since I think the content's been lower than usual. We're hitting massive brickwalls here and ToastyToast really should've been the lynch ages ago.

Toast's "post size" is 64 posts compared to your 42 (both in the upper half of the player spectrum). Unless you're talking about the number of words as opposed to the number of posts. Either way, I don't really think his activity level is low, especially given the standards of this game.

Jora, I'm reading over your posts and noticing that you're talking in many, many posts about how ZF is bad without putting a vote down on him the whole day. You seem to be more focused on him than Toast, so why not vote him?

ZF is on "possible emergency V/LA," which I doubt will take us anywhere for the next few days. In the meantime, Fitz has got a point: DRK needs to come back and give real reads.

unvote, vote DRK

[Sundy]

DRK is ignoring the pressure so far, almost laughing it off, even after 2 votes on him(/?) (and now a third). Eventually he (she?) will have to take questions seriously.

DRK: did you answer my gender question???

[Sundy]

Gender gives insight into psychology and I also just want to know.

[Sundy]

Prod received, apologies. It's the middle of finals for me... but it's been a chill Saturday so I'll take a look at current events.

[Sundy]

Hokay. Two replacements since I read through the thread, and both turn up town. Guess it gives us a fresh read. Kind of surprised by Magua's flip tbqh.

Anyway there is someone who is sticking out like a sore thumb on a re-read (well, he has stood out before). He kind of reminds me of Pierce from Community in his demeanor.

When asked to give a scum list by Farside, he replies "I know you asked politely but I'd rather not. If I did I would just be ISOing myself to reiterate points I have already made on the players I have suspected." Like he's not reacting to the game as more information comes, but gleaning his cases from previous stances. He's not really looking for more information. In the midst of general calls for extension, he says he doesn't want one (though it's hard to hold that against him considering NS' decision).

After CDB gave a bunch of good flash reads, he says: "No response to your posts CDB. My suspicions are vague and gut based. I wish I did have a stronger feel towards someone with solid reasoning." But he's expressed suspicions before in the game, now he just seems to be to clenching his teeth and holding out.

vote: Havingfitz

[Sundy]

On second thoughts, no. UNVOTE:

No matter how strong my feelings are, sorry farside, I should listen to Fonz: "Farside22 is always scum".

VOTE: yabbaguy

What's the connection between Farside & Yabba, Jora?

Two fitz quotes made in short succession that are worth looking at:

Your extremely misplaced and bad effort to push a LAL case on me is helping me sort the field a bit though.

I am naturally suspicious/defensive towards people who try to make a case on me. So in the middle of all my uncertainty you are moving a bit higher on my list.

[Sundy]

Question for you Sundy...in games where you are town...do you dismiss when people attempt to make cases against you as being misguided town or in the back of your mind do you leave open the possibility that they could be scum looking to get a mislynch wagon going?

I don't dismiss it either way. There's been times people were attacking me and I thought they were town. There's been a few games where very townie players ran up a wagon on m the first or second day. But I do agree with you that OMGUS can be justified... there's also been times when people have expressed suspicion of me and they did it in a way that didn't seem town. It all depends.

What stood out to me about your posts to me & Farside was the similar phrasing, like you were brushing off the attacks with the same reflexive move. I like how now you think my case is poor even though in your earlier defense you said "I can understand how my lack of reads or gut feels towards anyone in particular can be viewed with suspicion."

[Sundy]

Sundy...there was similar phrasing because you have both put votes on me. You didn't answer why they were worth looking at. Because they were similar? Some other reason? What was your point in pointing them out?

And just because I can understand how someone can think something doesn't mean I have to agree with it. When I am town I tend to think any case on me is poor.

They're worth looking at because they're the same cookie-cutter defined reflexive OMGUS suspicion in your mist of uncertainty. I already explained that.

And yeah I get that when you're town you're not going to agree with a case on you. That doesn't mean you can't have town reads on the people making the case against you. People can make mistakes and still seem townie.

[Sundy]

Farside I don't understand why you repeatedly get a scum read on Fitz and then talk yourself out of it.

[Sundy]

Prod received. I would want to hear from the new replacements of Yabba/DRK to think what they think of the game. IMO it's not going anywhere, and it hasn't been for awhile. There's not too much that's new to respond to.

Fitz's case on me is still only that I'm pushing a case on "town," which is contingent on him being town...a pretty strong contingent. Farside might be protecting him, but then again she might not. I am starting to think moreso that she's town because she's posting on and on no matter what happens, although she STILL I think could be confident & evil.

Either way, mostly want to lynch Fitz or one of the replacements today. Town-reads on Jora/Toast remain.

[Sundy]

Still waiting on replacements...will post in more detail when they catch up. I am playing via phone not comp ATM.

I like goomba's stream of consciousness method of catching up.

[Sundy]

vote: Sundy

PEACE.

[Sundy]

I am innocent VT and all of you are murderers

[Sundy]

MURDERERS

[Sundy]

Good job town-- well deserved win