Open 295 -- Island Paradise Mafia -- Game Over

[farside22]

Hahahahahaaha. <3 Romanus

There being a vig doesn't tell us much about the setup, but that's fine.

Vote: farside22

. Always scum.

(inb4 someone votes me for laughing at the NK...which I've now ensured will happen by posting this...)

Vote: DRK

For blatantly lying in one post.
So far the last 2 games we were in I flipped town. Only scum spread lies.

[farside22]

DRK: your scaring me. I recall our last game together and you were not this verbal. I'm frightened as hell.
And I have some town reads thanks to this chatter and my first scum suspect.

N0 shot is very bad and anti-town play for a Vig. What makes you think Romanus did it? Did you know something interesting about Romanus?

unvote

vote: }|{opa

That is some blatant role fishy I see there in front of me. Yes sir, let ask her straight out if she is the watcher so }|{opa and mafia can kill her.

[farside22]

That is some blatant role fishy I see there

Where is rolefishing? If it is some kind of fishing it is meta-info fishing. But it's not. I'm just pointed on an ambiguity in cjdrum's conclusion. And cjdrum is a boy, right?

You asked HIM if he knew something. How is that not role fishing exactly?
Sorry I saw the avatar and thought cjdrum was female.

[farside22]

You asked HIM if he knew something.

Blah! Ok, let it be rolefishing if you want it so hard. Great! Anyways, in C9++ setup is no Watcher role exist.

What was the point of your questions then?

[farside22]

Well, my first thought was that Romanus is famous for his bad play at being a Vig. And, DRK, you totally not right here - Vig should never kill so early. It's very bad if he did.

1) a mafia is dead. you point about vig kill early is total blow in your face if this was a vig kill
2) We don't know if there is a SK but if their is a SK in the game that shot andrew I would like to shake their hand for a good shot and for getting rid of someone who doesn't really scum hunt well.

[farside22]

Farside: Why did you say you were "frightened as hell" by Kitty, and then follow her case? What scared you about her posts?

Last game that is over I read DRK as scum. He didn't attack as much and didn't give a town vibe, therefore suspect day 1. This game complete opposite. I always feel frightened by seeing a total different attitude in another game. This read is complete town. I question it in the back of my head but file it away for a note for later if necessary.
And finally I didn't "follow" kitty's line of logic. I saw someone who looks for all purposes of role fishing and I still don't feel satisfied by his response.

[farside22]

@}|{opa : Do you think DRK is scum? If so why?
Do you have a read on anyone this game so far? How do you view cj's response to your loaded question?

[farside22]

so }|{opa and mafia can kill her

So you think that I am a SK. And...

Where did this quote come from and who? I don't see anywhere that I posted that comment but you acted like I did.

Yabba: why are you trying to stop DRK?

[farside22]

}|{opa: Ah you cut out a part so I got confused. I meant you and your partner.

yabba: Thoughts, views, oppinions any an all would be appriecated. Your too quiet.

}|{opa: even though I'm not the mod. All normal games the GF shows up innocent to the cop.

Mod:

Since this is an open game should we know what type of mafia andrew was, like goon, rb or GF?

[farside22]

TT: Frightened is when something scares you. It's noted that his game play is very different then another that just ended. How do you gather scummy from that word?
And yes I have a town read on DRK.
Why do you suspect }|{opa?

[farside22]

@farside, I read it as you being "frightened" by someone you had a town read on, which made you look weird. Btw what did Kitty turn out to be in the last game you played?
.

Ah. Well I meant his play compared to our last game.
Example: Dude your logic scares me.

@TT: Do you have any thoughts on yaba?

*starts to scribble notes*

Lets see.......Sunday and havingfits need to respond more and share some insight.


town reads
hmmmm
okay good, good.

scum reads....
hmmm no change that's not good.

[farside22]

@farside, can you answer my question re: Kitty?

Sorry missed the question.
DRK was town. Court He was lynched day 1.

[farside22]

havingfits: Can you please explain why the following three points you made are "bad"?

-DRK pushing Sundy votes for NK comment. (bad)
-DRK overexagerrating animorph's "too early" for serious votes comment. (bad)
-DRK accusing anomorph of defending Sundy (bad)

Actually how do you get over exaggerating?

@Jora: Lurkers are in a sense a problem. Strat typically doesn't post a lot it's a null tell with him if he is scum or town.
Also most lurkers get replaced. I know the last game I was in with strat he was. A vote for a lurker is not going to get you a reaction. That is why I feel lurker voting is useless, unless the player is posting elsewhere on MS then it gets attention. Did you see him posting in other games?

I think the Cop debate between Jora/TT is like two children saying:
No you did it
No you did it.

So glad I have only 1 child.

[farside22]

startransmission: What is your view of the game and what has been said thus far? No excuse for a non answer.

unvote:
vote: yabba

Yeah there is opportunistic and then their is sitting on the side lines throwing crap out.
@Jora: Sorry you were my guinea pig this game.

Now on to why yabba is scum

Hang the fuck on. Someone Unvote and let's talk more. Jora is an idiot wagon that is getting opportunistically run up.

I'm slogging through schoolwork, but my forerunning theory is that fitz's swoop in is the worst.

vote havingfitz

This is non-response bs. Calls Jora wagon idiotic without reason. Says fitz's vote is the worst without reason.
Yabba's response thus far is what I call a non-response. A person who uses words without reason to look like they are scum hunting.

[farside22]

yabba: in regards to DRK: If inaccurate, why not scummy? How long are you going to be doing mafia from your iPhone?

havingfitz is voting Jora yet FOSing DRK, which doesn't stack in my mind. Couple that with the vote opportunism near the end of the wagon and you've got a scummy combo.

Thank you. I looked into this and as noted havingfitz has a better more indepth view of DRK scum points but has a vote on Jora because of this:

I didn't have any suspicions towards }|{opa until his DRK GF post/Star vote.

which at this point is the pot calling the kettle black.
Saying a person has suspicion over one person then voting another and doing the same is hypocritical, which I learned isn't scummy, but opportunistic vote hopping on a BW.
That is scummy.

Because self-votes are idiotic. I suspect him, but a lynch this early is a HUGE no.

Bad logic. Scum self vote, yah town. Town self vote, bad for the town. If you think he is scum there is no reason to believe it's idiotic

@farside...if you think yabba is scum for his vote on me...do you think he was doing it to save a scumbuddy in }|{opa? If yabba is scum in your opinion how would that jive with the possibility of }|{opa being town? (ie...why bother defending him?)

No.

@Jora: What reaction do you see from fitz that was town?
Just because someone is in a lot of games is not a reason to vote them. That is very anti-town behavior.

Yabba did something that makes me feel better. He made a case on someone that no one else caught onto. Fitz's vote on Jora as I stated is hypocritical but worse it's opportunist. If someone had a scummier read on one person over another they would vote that person, but when the reason to vote one person over another that is already 4 votes in is not only opportunist but scummy at that point.

unvote:
vote: Havingfitz

Jora: If all your thoughts is lynching lurkers or calling out those in "too many games" is not something that I find positive. Yes people posting elsewhere and not in game is scummy but it's not the only thing out there. It also looks like you have no better case to go on.

[farside22]

farside...my suspicions of }|{opa and DRK are totally independant of each other. I can and do suspect them both. I just find the suspicion I hold of }|{opa to be more significant att than DRK. And how is anything I have done hypocritical? I'm voting who I think is scum....}|{opa isn't. I'm voting someone who has provided a lot of information to work with, }|{opa isn't. Where is the hypocrisy? And what makes my vote opportunistic? The fact I placed it? <headshake>

I used your quote with reasoning sir. Your only reason listed and main reason was that he voted for a lurker over someone he suspects more. If there are more reason's then spell them out. Why is Jora scum in your view?
You had all these points on DRK but vote for jora. That is hypocritical. Saying well this person looks scummy, but I'm voting for X for weak reason is what Jora did and you did. Your vote is opportunistic because Jora has a bw on him.

[farside22]

@Farside, in which situation would a self-vote not be idiotic?

When a town does it out of frustration. I don't consider scum doing it idiotic but strategy. Yes file that as WIFOM.
Sunday: I notice you have lots of questions, but no vote and not scum suspects seems to be implied or noticed by me from your post. What's your view on who is scum and why?

@farside...there is nothing hypocritical about my voting }|{opa and suspecting DRK. Feel free to disagree of course but IMO you are misrepresentng my vote as something it is not.

So you don't have a better reason for voting for Jora then the one I quoted? I did ask for more reason's which you neglected from your post.

I agree, that wagon is the most interesting thing in the game so far. Farside attacking yabbas vote on havingfitz is interesting as well. I don't find that an empty vote at all, but a justified one. Oh well, farside comes around to the havingfitz wagon eventually. Puzzled by this,

I actual touched on this a bit earlier. Yabba came back with a reason and a case on someone that no one else brought up. That earned a town point and an unvote. He's still someone I will keep an eye on. I won't take slacking off from him lightly.
I'm thought I asked you, but in case i didn't, did you have any scum suspects? I note your votes is on Sunday. Any reason it's on Sunday? What is your view on Jora?

[farside22]

Yes...post 156 had reasons...as did #109 and #145.

First I hate people who use post number but not links. (1) it takes me a bit to get to the post (2) I think you have something to hide.

Lets look at each one of your "reasons"

farside...my suspicions of }|{opa and DRK are totally independant of each other. I can and do suspect them both. I just find the suspicion I hold of }|{opa to be more significant att than DRK. And how is anything I have done hypocritical? I'm voting who I think is scum....}|{opa isn't. I'm voting someone who has provided a lot of information to work with, }|{opa isn't. Where is the hypocrisy? And what makes my vote opportunistic? The fact I placed it? <headshake>

No reason here just mentions independent reasons for finding jora and DRK suspicious

I didn't have any suspicions towards }|{opa until his DRK GF post/Star vote. DRK seems to be overreacting IMO to a lot of people's comments and if it were not for the aforementioned }|{opa suspicion I would probably put my vote on him [DRK]. So I'll

FOS

DRK.
}|{opa however gets this: VOTE: }|{opa

The post is a list of the things that caught my attention as I caught up. The individual observations towards DRK did not outweight the one transgression I observed from }|{opa. If I think someone is scum...I'm going to vote them. I am not going to annoint someone as scum (the GF yet!) and then just FOS them and vote someone who has made all of two posts. As for voting the same candidate...I find }|{opa scummier ATT so the fact my current #2 is voting the same way means nothing (except possibly that they aren't both scum). And where are your policy lynch comments coming from? Did I say anything regarding a policy lynch?[/quote]

No reason

Post 109

}|{opa pushing DRK as a good cop lynch. Why keep mentioning a cop?
Don't like giving town reads so I won't. I didn't have any suspicions towards }|{opa until his DRK GF post/Star vote. DRK seems to be overreacting IMO to a lot of people's comments and if it were not for the aforementioned }|{opa suspicion I would probably put my vote on him [DRK]. So I'll

FOS

DRK.
}|{opa however gets this: VOTE: }|{opa

Also...I have a gut suspicion towards cjdrum atm based on random thoughts listed above.

one reason.

IE: There is only one reason in all those post that havingfitz has for voting and thinking Jora is suspicious.
I'm a page behind but so far at this point it's not moving.

[farside22]

And I finished. Nothing has changed from the TT/Cjd debate. I like cjd's thought process on TT. I don't agree with everything but the voting for lurkers then he votes for lurkers means cdj is reading the game and scum hunting.

[farside22]

In response to your 2nd quote of me (my post 156) - First off...you are not posting them in the order that I mention them.

Sorry this wasn't on purposes. I copied each quote and put them in a note pad and had to leave. I forgot which post number was what and should have searched in order. This is why I say I hate links.
Second all 3 points you just bold. Are they not the same? I think the only difference from one bold to the other 2 is directing the cop. But all 3 are the same point. He voted lurkerstar over DRK while calling him the GF.

[farside22]

@Havingfitz: First your vote is joining a BW you were number four vote with weak reasoning:

Votecount 1.03

L-1 }|{opa - 5 - DeathRowKitty, farside22, ToastyToast, havingfitz, }|{opa
animorpherv1 - 1 - Sundy
Sundy - 1 - startransmission
yabbaguy - 1 - animorpherv1

Not Voting: cjdrum, yabbaguy

Second my vote is number 2 on you for opportunist voting and being a hypocrite. Now adding that your not reading and making fluff to the list of reasons.

I asked you in 2 post to list more reason's for your vote. You acted like you stated more reason's which you have not. Your vote was weak and hypocritical. I already explained why, which you either are ignoring or skimming. You also as jora pointed out haven't talked about much of anyone in this game. You leave information out on your views and prodding of people.
Now you doing what I expect scum to always to. Look at what X did why are you pointing at them.
Well I have a town read on TT he's answered questions and I see scum hunting in his post. He ask questions and the whole you did argument with Jora was a town tell.

[farside22]

And are you saying the 4th vote on a player is more opportunistic than the 2nd or 3rd? If so...the 5 and 6th votes must really set you off

Nope didn't say that. I voted second on jora I know I'm town. I explained my read on TT.
As for 5th or 6 vote is would depend on what the people said and reason's they voted.
Are you going to sit here and say that scum don't vote for opportunistic reasons? Are you going to sit there and state that scum don't use weak reason's to case their votes?

I also listed other various reason I find you scum in my last post. And yes when I ask someone twice for

other

reason's they find a person scummy and I get nothing but the same garbage over and over I will accuse that player of not reading and skimming the game.

[farside22]

I'll admit I only skimmed parts of the farside-HF argument (I only have so much patience to read a lot of text on one subject), but I would pick farside if I had to choose scum out of the pair (since when don't I think farside is scum, right?). Happier with my Startransmission vote for now though.

I swear are you a Fonz alt? That guy always thinks I'm scum too.

And HF now is going to OMGUS and completely missing my reason's. Yay caught scum.
I can go to sleep now.

[farside22]

Are you going to sit here and say that scum don't vote for opportunistic reasons? Are you going to sit there and state that scum don't use weak reason's to case their votes?

I didn't say either of those statements. In fact I would say they do both things most of the time. My vote isn't opportunistic and my reason for voting }|{opa isn't weak. So what is your point? In fact, since you brought these two points up...I would say they both apply much better to your vote and subsequent, and IMO feigned, lack of comprehension.

How? Seriously there is no reason. Just garbage post here. You don't explain how it isn't opportunist. I showed you had 1 reason and asked for more which you ignored then acted later that you had more reason's for your vote on Jora. You give me 3 post for your reason's which turn out to be 1 reason.

How did I misrep your post? All you did was throw out buzz words which is what I see scum normally do.

[farside22]

You misrepped it by calling my vote hypocritical and opportunistic. Those are a few buzz words from you that don't apply. You pushing an invalid case is something I see scum normally do.

I told you why it's hypocritical.
So your saying your points on DRK are minor because Jora thought DRK was the GF and may have been trying to signal the cop and didn't vote DRK. Is this correct? I assume after 3 post of the same thing that is all you have.
First someone saying OMG your signally a cop and telling them what to do is stupid. People will do what they please and read players and make choices based on their reads not by what is said in thread.
Second as I said before you had multiple points against DRK but didn't vote for him. Jora is making a statement about DRK's alignment with no real reason. What is the point of voting for someone based on a theory?
I also explain how your vote was opportunistic. However I noted you just ignore my questions to you to explain your reasoning. Calling my comments to you and your post a misrep has got to be a joke. I keep explaining my reasoning and all you do is throw out more words without a purpose.

[farside22]

...you say "People will do what they please and read players and make choices based on their reads not by what is said in thread." What? You're saying people don't develop reads on others based on what is said? Ridiculous. To me at least. All we have to go on is what is said. <headshake>

Fitz in your time here at MS have you ever been a cop or had an investigation role? I have a point in regards to your not understanding of my point above.

Also you keep throwing misrep as a life line when I explain my rationale behind all my views. You can say misrep but because my view of what you did is what you are claiming was not "your intent" so you say doesn't = misrep.

[farside22]

Calling your description of my }|{opa vote a misrep is not a life line...its a fact. In my 30ish town aligned games I might have been an investigative role 2 or 3 times though I only remember one of them (a seer). I don't recall any others but I can't imagine not having been one at least 1-2 more times.

Okay now have you ever in your life listen to a player who said OMG that player is scum and should be investigated? Or did you check players based on your own reads?

[farside22]

I need to make a legit list if i'm going to figure this out...just so friggin lazy right now.

Get off your lazy butt.
Too many people being quiet during this discussion for my taste.

[farside22]

Calling your description of my }|{opa vote a misrep is not a life line...its a fact. In my 30ish town aligned games I might have been an investigative role 2 or 3 times though I only remember one of them (a seer). I don't recall any others but I can't imagine not having been one at least 1-2 more times.

Okay now have you ever in your life listen to a player who said OMG that player is scum and should be investigated? Or did you check players based on your own reads?

I would check people based on my own reads.

So why is jora's post scummy? The whole leading the cop is a fallacy that I believe was made up by scum. Now onto the vote for lurker of DRK from Jora.
Jora posted against DRK was thus:

My top suspects are DeathRowKitty and startransmission.

I think DeathRowKitty is a mafia Godfather, since he so obvious target for a Cop. But really I don't know. I keep watching for more reads. IGMEOY, DeathRowKitty!

That doesn't read like a case does it?
It's a theory in my view. This is all why I found your case weak and opportunist.

I realize looking at this again it was not hypocritical.

[farside22]

And now fitz has gone to ranting scum. Just when I was starting to think I was wrong in my initial read.
There is stubborn and then there is ranting for no reason which is exactly how fitz last post reads.
You again made no point in your post. Rambling, pissy comments that don't all fit together.

Your saying my theory is hypocritical without a reason why. I quoted Jora's post where it clearly states

I think

which means there is no basis reason for Jora to vote DRK and you want to ignore it all and rant how right you are and how wrong I am.

[farside22]

1. You turned away from your argument, like it didn't matter.
2. In doing this, you make us look at his post in a worse light than it really is in.
3. He's not ranting, he's been picked at and picked at and picked at until he couldn't take it any more - not ranting scum, just sick and tired [alignment*].

1. No, I explain things over and over even in my last post.
2. I'm using his quotes and asking questions. So you agree with his view on Jora and his vote and reasoning?
3. No he shut down because he has no out that = scum.

I even rationalized why his vote and reasoning for voting Jora is opportunistic and he flipped out but to the same song and dance. That is not rational or town reaction. That is scum that got put on the grill and burned.

[farside22]

cjdrum: I have my town reads. The only people I have no read or a vague feeling of less then stellar are Strat and Bv310. Also I'm still keeping my eye on Yabba. Many people so far have made post that I don't see anything scummy about.
Do you find something said by anyone that is worth mentioning?
Also the looking like you actively participating has got to be a joke....I mean really fitz and I have been arguing for over a page now with no one else saying much of anything.
What point has fitz made that you feel I ignored?

[farside22]

Vig Kill: startransmission

[farside22]

Active lurking note:
Yabba is posting in MishMash and another game but continues to post little to nothing here.
Same with Bv and Strat minus playing MM. Strat is not as active in MS as Yabba or BV

FOS: Yabba and BV

mod: Prod BV with a big stick

[farside22]

Fitz: What question did I miss?

Yabba:Here are my points

At the time of Fitz's vote he placed the vote on Jora: Reasons here
I called the vote weak, opportunist and hypocritical.

After some more talks I retract the hypocritical talk realized it was inacurate.

The vote is weak because the reason's fitz had for DRK were stronger then Jora's vote.
Opportunistic because of the BW forming.
I pointed out the reason's why I found fitz vote weak (the leading the cop) and why Jora's vote on DRK wasn't scummy.
The why vote for a theory over someone floating by.
Fitz reaction and still calling my case scummy is in my view scum caught with no way out.

I don't have time for all the links to each of these points. I thought for a moment my read on fitz was wrong as he was communicating back and arguing his points but when someone ignores the views of another player and still calling them scum and ranting I feel it's caught scum who has no way out.

[farside22]

1- I did not think my thoughts re: DRK outweighed my suspicions of }|{opa. I have explained this. Apparently this is a difference in opinion. Why do you think the points I brought up regarding DRK are stronger than the ones I brought up (actually I think TT brought it up) re: }|{opa?
2- Opinion. I disagree. Also...you were basing opportunitic on hypocritical. One point is gone now...why not the other?
3- I would agree that the suspicion for potentially leading an investigation is minor....it was not the reason I placed my vote...it only contributed to it. What does }|{opa's vote on DRK have to do with any of this?
4- I do not understand what you are talking about here. Voting for theory instead of for someone floating by?
5- Do you know how I usually react to false and inaccurate accusations? Hmm? And you admit the hypocritical part was wrong...and it formed both the basis for your vote on me and for the continued reaction I gave.

1. I just didn't see it that way. DRK in you view may have been minor, but there were many various minor reasons. Jora had 2 points. (1) minor and the other you are saying was scummy above all else
2. I don't see how this is an opinion. Opportunist is jumping on a bw with weak reasoning in my view
3. You stated that Jora's not voting for DRK for the his theory was scummy. And yes it's theory because unless Jora is scum with DRK and calling him the GF trying to lead the cop to an investigation on DRK is theory. I saw no reason for Jora to vote DRK for a theory? Why do you?
4. see 3
5. I recall a bit of our last game. I would have to really go back and reread that game to recall how you reacted because it's been a bit and my mind can't remember every game. I do remember some of your actions........

For the final comment.
Your reason for you vote was thus:

For continuing to push a non existent case and misrepping my actions...which are there for all to see.

VOTE: farside22

Don't ask me for more reasons becuase the ones mentioned above are all I have atm.

I've shown why I believe everything I stated. You called my case non existent and misrep, but I explained my reasoning and your still calling me scum, which doesn't make sense to me.
No I don't say you need to agree with me but calling me scum for those reason's is inaccurate in my view.

[farside22]

It was non existent and a misrep. You admit yourself that my vote on }|{opa was not hypocritical.

Seriously????!!! How the fuck do you still say this?

[farside22]

Someone please smack havingfitz in the head a few times.
I don't believe he either cares to understand my point or has reached a point of such stubbornness or is scum that is pretending stupidity that my brain officially has checked out.

[farside22]

@Farside, why did you get a town-read from CJ in the Toast/CJ fight?

TT has been a good town read since the start. First I thought of CJ and his post was the avatar really fit the comments (insert dumb blond joke here). I don't see scum normally attack another player in the way cj did to TT. He stood up for himself.
Plus his latest post on me and why he read me as scummy was really well thought out. It's not completely out of the relms to believe scum to be calm, controlled or checking things like he believed I was. This all are good indications of someone town.

OMFG Seriously fitz your going to make me hate playing with you if this is your town game. Your either completely off your fucking rocker to believe I have no case or no belief that you are scum with your constant deflections with no reasoning it floors me no one else is seeing it.
All that said your either scum or I'm losing it. When no one seems to agree either way I'm going with losing it and adding you to the people that suck as town list.

Mod: Can you please just give me one shot? That's all I ask.....

*mutters unpleasant comments*

In other news Yabba is still giving me scum vibes. He's said very little this game and is sitting back when everything else goes one. He has yet to expand more on fitz (his first suspect) or expand further. I usually see scum sit back and God help me if fitz is town and I know I'm town active lurking is easy for the scum this game.

unvote:
vote: Yabba

[farside22]

Fitz: I only remember one game with you where you were town and I was scum. When I'm scum I'm not as aware of players attitudes or actions. It's easier not to be involved.
If there were others their a blur of not memorable games.
Also you post of no one is following my case can be said about you. If fact no one has really said much of anything about either of our cases, which makes me think I'm nuts on what I perceive.
I also believe with 1 scum dead and typically a 12 player game has 3 scums, that scum is going to play UTR.
I think those staying low and not commenting very much are more likely to be scum at this point.

[farside22]

moprh/bv replacing out while saying next to nothing and posting in other games is more suspicious then star who's play is typically (IE: null)

[farside22]

The correct answer isn't to say "UH-OH, THE SLOT'S FUCKED, PANIC! LYNCH NOW!"

The setup's V??????, so there has to be 2 other scum in the game. Even if ani/bv is one such slot, there's another one about that has contributed something.

I pick you. How you like that?

Mod: Force replace Star, pretty please?

[farside22]

moprh/bv replacing out while saying next to nothing and posting in other games is more suspicious then star who's play is typically (IE: null)

I take this to be frustration at being townie. Not speaking from experience (since I never replace out regardless), if I was going to replace out of a game...most likely it would be from a town game since I seldom (ie but once) get to be scum. So IMO ani/bv probably falls below other lurkers such as Star.

If we're forcing replacements I'll nominate DRK too.

I disagree, call it meta but I know bv is good with town roles and hates being mafia. He does a terrible job as scum and lurks more then ever when he is scum.
Morph same. He's more obvious scum then town. I know how he plays and he didn't post much of anything to get a good read on.

I agree with the force replacement of DRK as well. He comes on strong, then leaves, makes me paranoid.

[farside22]

Nvm about replacing DRK just missed DRK's post.
LOL sorry fitz I disagree that comment from DRK about us is town all the way. It's true too. I know I'm town and if you are town us fighting helps the scum.

[farside22]

Nvm about replacing DRK just missed DRK's post.
LOL sorry fitz I disagree that comment from DRK about us is town all the way. It's true too. I know I'm town and if you are town us fighting helps the scum.

What if one of us is not town? Do you know my alignment? I don't know yours.

I had my dear god I think your town post and the post after where I had a realization that after losing a scum member I believe scum will be lurking or actively lurking.
Sure it's theory but if your scum then I'll smack myself later for letting things go, but when no one reads or says anything about either of my case or your case I am most likely wrong.

[farside22]

@farside....that's fine. I still do not support squashing of any conversation. Even if you are resigned to thinking I'm town and if I were to think you were town...it still would not do the game any good to put te brakes on our exchanges. If for any other reason than to help town in the game to establish their assessment on each of us and perhaps generate some other discussion in this game (though that has not been the case so far). Do you agree with DRK that we should not talk to each other?

I took it as he saw it as us doing more arguing. I honestly felt the same because your stubbornness is beyond understanding for me. Town on town arguments help the scum. I'm still talking to you so I don't agree with all communications coming to a halt.
I take it you feel DRK was saying something completely different?

[farside22]

There is also the issue of replacement(s) entering this game that need to catch up.
I can however see your point on this, I just don't agree.

[farside22]

WTF Bv is still in this game!
Shit we should be putting pressure there.

okay I had my getto moment and I feel better. I haven't really noticed much from Sunday. Let me reread him and get back to that.
I still don't see how yabba is town. He's actively lurking the only post I felt anything town was when he talked about fitz's vote. Other then that bleck. (Still need to see post 57 that DRK points to).

[farside22]

DRK, ABR in MD has a point, let the game breathe.

Unvote

I don't see this as town comment. It's null at best. Scum or town can say something like this.
Still need to read sunday.

[farside22]

Reading Sunday I would say that although post 13 is interesting point that you started with and I have seen scum make comments like that the rest of him reads null. I see he's looking at things that no one else brought up, but he's also low under the radar. It's a weird feeling I get when I read him.
He's under my to be watched list for not but not under definite scum.

[farside22]

Yabba: Who else is on your scum list and why?

DRK: I'll think about what you said, but I have my own issues on Yabba that far outweigh one post.

[farside22]

Just an FYI: Beside DKR's activity at the start of the game, the fact she narrows down to 2 people as more likely scum and knocking out at least 4 people (including herself) as town isn't smart scum play.

@Fitz and Jora: What is you view of Sundy's play?

Upon review of everything I have accumulated from this game I believe scum to be part of these four players:

Scum:
Yabba
bv310/morph
Sundry
Star (as I said previously star lurking is null we have a replacement that unvoted and still waiting for more info, hence why they are last on my list)
Leaning middle:
TT (null. I had a gut read that was promising, but the lack of comments has him in the middle)
Everyone else I have a pretty good read on.
Cj (the VI of the game)
fitz (the stubborn mule)
Jora (the BW of day 1)
DKR (can't see her putting herself in a corner with those reads, plus strong performance)

[farside22]

Yabba: When I see someone posting fine elsewhere and not saying anything of valve in this game but making excuses I'll call it scum with gut feeling.

I'm a bit sick so if you want to expand on your reason's for voting Star and what he did that was scummy over lets pick Sundy I'll check into it tomorrow.

I'm also going to call your post on TT the pot vs kettle.
I will accept you did say more recently. Did you check to see if TT is posting elsewhere or did you not take his comment about what is going on here

And I'm sorry about the lurking, farside, finals coming up.

untruthful for a reason?

[farside22]

And I'm sorry about the lurking, farside, finals coming up.

@farside: If you are referencing the fact that I'm more active in other games, know that I consider those games to be more important because something is actually going on.

You want to explain the differences for excuses here TT.

unvote:
vote: TT

Also I'm going to say this as a pev of mine from anyone that is town. If your town and you see things not active and continuing that way instead of not pushing the game forward how about calling out those things you do see and get the game moving forward. I know scum like to stall the game more then town.
Also at fitz: That comment you made about Sundy was my feel too. He reminds me of my own play as scum before. He's moved up the list.

[farside22]

my posting has remained consistent in the game. Posted quotes were marking my frustration with this game.
So you are now voting me because I'm stalling?
I've been plenty active in 1) the opa wagon and 2) my calling out on cjdrum. To say that I am stalling is BS.
Have I faded into the background? Yeah, but I am not stalling.

No I'm voting you for you inconstant reasons for not being here and playing the game.
You first state finals coming up then in your next post your more active in other game because their more active.

[farside22]

I'm now reading over HF's banter with Farside. This vote screams OMGUS. Maybe not OMGUS specifically, but it seems that he votes farside simply for disagreeing with him, rather than doing anything scummy (which IMO is along the same lines as an OMGUS vote). In addition to that, he has generally weak reasoning for his votes, and finishes with a "don't ask me for more reasons", casting his vote in steel, refusing any further discussion. This is extremely anti-town behavior and should not be tolerated.

I could kiss you. No seriously I thought I was going crazy thinking I completely was wrong on my read of that vote and reason.
But I determined later he was stubborn town based on lack of comments from anyone but Yabba. Scum would have jumped on the wagon. No one saying much of anything leads me to believe it was a town on town argument. And fitz sticking to bad rational that no one else notices seems weird to me. Like really weird. So I took myself out of it and I have a tendency to argue with town when I'm town more often then not.

*note: Please ignore blathing it just makes me feel better to know I'm not completely off my rocker.

[farside22]

@farside: They both are contributing factors. Since I've been busy IRL, I've ultimately had to reduce my time on the site across the board. When I do catch up, this one tends to come last because I rarely see anything new. It was just a giant argument between you and havingfitz for days, which gave me no information other than causing me to see you both as town.

Here's a novel concept. How about bring up something that breaks the fight apart if you believe it's town on town. Or bring out points you notice from others in the game instead of others making insight.
Grrrrr

I want your reads of each player with reason's on why they are town/scum or null.

[farside22]

I'll take this opportunity to point out that farside is very experienced and very active. So much so that she used to be(?) a list mod, and after three years, she's maintained an average of 12.28 posts per day. It doesn't surprise me at all that she can keep a level head in a cat fight

God that's so funny. Remind me tomorrow to give you some of my more less then stellar moments of fighting with people in other games.
I actually thought Cj was an alt because I usually am not controlled by any means, which is why I have cj a big town point on his view.
I'm still a list mod by the way. And I thought my posting average went down this past year (since my job took MS away. IE: blocked MS site from my computer). Not sure if it's still that high.

@Jackolope: My vote is hoovering close to your neck. If that is the best you have while saying nothing about anyone else, it's beyond lurking it's scummy.

[farside22]

And TT is back on my good list.
Zero moves up the list and out of scum territory.

This leaves: Jackolope, Yabba or Sundy.

I would like any of the 3 lynched today.

unvote:
vote: Jackolope

Congrats Yabba you are moving up, but I still find you scummy.

Zero: I get your views on Jora. Let me ask you something, if your scum partner died N1 would you play it aggressive and make comments that will get you at L-1 day 1 or play low under the radar to nonexistant?

[farside22]

I'll just keep chanting Lynch Jak till something changes my mind.
Yabba: I will take your views, look at TT one more time and think on it. What did you think about his scum list?

[farside22]

As I've previously mentioned I dreaming about TheJakalope vs ZeroFang competing wagons.

So, UNVOTE:
VOTE: ZeroFang

You realize before you did this vote there was only 36 hour left in the game.
If you going to switch votes at least push for a reason better then competing wagons.

[farside22]

Jora: I'm already voting Jak and the claim doesn't change anything.

[farside22]

I'm not seeing this case on TT, Yaba.
Cj why is hammering scummy? Do you believe in a no lynch?

Jora: Why is TT scummy?

I like this one better.

vote: Sundy

[farside22]

Sorry Yabba. It's hard to leave my #2 scum suspect alone right now.
I get tired of people ignoring me in other games when I feel absolutely certain about things I notice in the game. When I see someone in another game flip scum that I had a scum read on day 1 and no one listens I start to feel jaded and stubborn.
If it makes you feel any better you moved up to null while TT moves down the list again. ZF and Jora comments were also interesting from yesterday. I'm surprised Jora isn't voting him today. That seems odd to me.

[farside22]

If this was merely a game of probability, then we'd be RVS everyday. But it isn't, because the actions of each player change said probability. Sounds like another "if i'm wrong, don't blame me!" post

Not always. Most people that read scummy on day 1 and slide by don't change unless they feel pressure and are scum. Just making a point on how someone reacts about a case is just as telling as those who don't.

[farside22]

Sundy: If you actually read my post you would see my POV on who I believe is town and why. Each explination is there. the rest fall under scum category or null
IE: you, TT and ZF.
Your play is exactly how I expect scum to behave in a game they just lost their scum partner. Asking pointless questions that lead no where. No pushing a case on anyone and withholding opinion till the end of the day to cast a worthless vote.
Jora mentioned some interesting points on ZF that earned my view and Yabba's recent post and view I see more what I expected from day 1.
*note to yabba* see why I got on you day 1. Your better then that blah ness.

[farside22]

Hey yabba do you think my view on Sundy is off? If so why? Or are you intent with your TT belief at this point?

[farside22]

@TT: If you really believe that, then you are not reading the game. Jak was lynched for not provide anything useful to the game. He comes in as a replacement and only mentions Yabba and said nothing else about any of the players in the game. Sundy is a different story all together as I just mentioned before.

[farside22]

This might be OMGUS, but I'm starting to get a creepy feeling about you Farside. Maybe the OMGUS is justified because you're pushing a lynch for vague reasons on me, the only person I know is town.

Sundy: What do you call vague? Your saying your questioning lead you to ZF who was a replacement of .......bv/morph. How do the questions you asked lead you to ZF?
Also when you mention funny feeling that is more vague then my reasoning

IE: I'm really thrilled with my vote on the hypocritical scum right now.

I'm calling Sundy/TT scum team at this point. I want money if I'm right damn it. I should get paid for this stuff.
Also Sundy if you actually read my Iso then you would have seen this post:

Upon review of everything I have accumulated from this game I believe scum to be part of these four players:

Scum:
Yabba
bv310/morph
Sundry
Star (as I said previously star lurking is null we have a replacement that unvoted and still waiting for more info, hence why they are last on my list)
Leaning middle:
TT (null. I had a gut read that was promising, but the lack of comments has him in the middle)
Everyone else I have a pretty good read on.
Cj (the VI of the game)
fitz (the stubborn mule)
Jora (the BW of day 1)
DKR (can't see her putting herself in a corner with those reads, plus strong performance)

This was the break down for those who didn't want to go thru 50 post in which I explain my reason's further on CJ/Fitz/Jora and DRK. Yabba and TT are the only 2 I have moved today. You however stay under scum list.

[farside22]

@TT: If you really believe that, then you are not reading the game. Jak was lynched for not provide anything useful to the game. He comes in as a replacement and only mentions Yabba and said nothing else about any of the players in the game. Sundy is a different story all together as I just mentioned before.

Yabba's reasons for wanting me lynch are general uselessness. The reasons we lynched Jak is as you said. Its the same argument.

TT: Your question and comment was in regards to Sundy and had nothing to do with you. What does this statement have to do with anything I said in regards to Sundy?

[farside22]

read the post after it. Jack, me, and sundy. All the arguments are the same.

Hun if that is the best you have for saying Sundy isn't scum then your really a sad, sad thing.
The arguments are different on Sundy then Jak and calling them the same case is really inexcusable. I already stated the difference and who is your scum suspect?
Right Yabba (who accused you yesterday: hello Mr. OMGUS) and CJ for voting you and what else? What other reason do you have? Not making a good case, flip/flopping on his vote on me. Most of your reasoning so far reads as OMGUS but you can't accuse Jora of it without looking more scummy.

Fun times

[farside22]

1) You gave town reads on TT & ZF immediately before you put them in the "scum category or null" with me, which shows that your town reads amount to a hill of jumping beans
2) You claimed to like Jora's views on ZF even though at the time he expressed them you were telling him to shut up so that the lynch on Jakalope would go through.

1)Umm do I really need to quote every single post on why I had my town list, I mean if you read everything I wrote it's all in there.
2) Really please quote where I told Jora to shut off and lynch Jak.

Since I know I never told anyone to shut up I will just say now
*cough* lying scum *cough*

[farside22]

So vote switching with 36 hours and a possible no lynch is a good idea to you Sundy?
And if you see Jora's reason was exactly what I stated was competing wagons. Doing that late in the game makes no sense. How does it make sense to you Sundy?
Jora town isn't in the quote you used ,also when someone says they find a player scummy day 1 then vote someone else, yes I find it odd, but not enough to say Jora is scum.
So in short pushing a wagon late in the day in my view could lead to a no lynch (which I don't agree with) and didn't understand after Jora's post at the end of the day why he wouldn't come back to it. It's not enough to find Jora scummy. I find the point interesting (IE: worth keeping an eye on ZF).

[farside22]

Why no one is voting ZF?

Why are you voting TT today when you were pushing ZF at the end of the day?


@DRK: What happened to your suspicions yesterday?

[farside22]

By the way Sundy in your haste to make my post questionable did you note what Jora even said at the time and when I made my statement to Jora bout his point?
Just curious because it looks like all you did was Iso and throw together a post.

I need to see something that just hit me. I don't know if I will have time to check

*note reread TT*

[farside22]

hmm I found a few interesting things that TT mentions that I need to ask Yabba a question:
Also TT in you write of Yabba and reasoning day 1 i found one thing that was false but the rest I found pretty accurate reading yabba's iso.

Who are your top 2 scum suspects and why? I know one is TT but who is the other and what is it that you find scummy about them?

[farside22]

@farside: Second is probably ZeroFang as I look at it. I've gotta be really careful here, but it's sort of a conditional on ToastyToast flipping Mafia. Fang is being very anti-Toast at the moment, which pleases me, but in such an outspoken and vote-free way that it could actually just be a distancing tactics. Realizing that ZeroFang is sort of on a quasi-V/LA at the moment with his limited laptop access, I bet it's a lukewarm suspicion-flinging at Toast.

What about Sundy? TT is very anti Sundy. Sundy is very anti-TT.

There was a point brought by TT in which he mentions that you don't talk about people you find scummy till someone else brings it up. Now this isn't true in regards to fitz and I felt you didn't say much in regards to it during the time. Then TT get's mentioned and low and behold there you are along with the Stat wagon as well. In other words I did agree that your scum calls were during times that others had already called out those people.

[farside22]

@farside:

What about Sundy? TT is very anti Sundy. Sundy is very anti-TT.

This is wrong. How did you come up with this?

I'm reading the game. TT said he found the case on Sundy the same was the case against Jak and Sundy doesn't mention TT and calls myself and ZF scummy.
Are you reading?

[farside22]

Yabba when I said anti- TT and Anti-Sundy I meant each was against lynching the other.

[farside22]

cj: Who do you have a scum read on besides TT?

Also after reading fitz's comments i looked into TT as well. He was very back and forth on cj however a few things I had issue with.

Look here about one vote on CJ and what he has to say

Scum like to congratulate themselves, especially in a game like this when there are kills but no suspicion on anyone yet.
cj has other odd posts like this, like subtly suggesting that having a SK in game is a good thing.

Something about his/her attitude--havingfitz picked up on it earlier. Unless he intends to have this "TEEHEE" thing the whole game, or if its meta, I find it scummy.

I don't see any of the wagons right now, so Vote:cjdrum

Then he states the below

Scum like to congratulate themselves, especially in a game like this when there are kills but no suspicion on anyone yet.

What are your opinions on cjd also including the reverse of that?
And yes, you have been sigged

Its null, my votes intent was to draw cjdrum out. I read one of HF's posts and found the same oddities he mentioned.
It worked, and now he's voting me as his defense! lol

TT went from having a reason to wanting to draw cj out. Also many of TT's reasons for finding CJ scummy was really weak. From morph and CJ having the avatar's from the same tv show (seriously)
Then at the end of the day he put this in his scum list:

Under Toast (null?)
cjdrum: responses to my vote was good, but I still don't like his 'joking' approach (past games might be helpful for comparisons)

Now he has a case on Cj putting him with Yabba. I don't like it. I see this is more scummy and this is the second time I caught TT using a different reason for explaining something.
First it's his reason's for not posting in the game, then it's his vote and reasoning for Cj.

Vote: TT

[farside22]

That's L-1.

CJ and ZF answers to my question are required.

[farside22]

Ugh. It's the inconsistancy that is killing me. I'm starting to think players are not always thinking about what they say what is going on in the game town. I would explain why but the game is still ongoing.
Plus I feel like every time I read TT there is my gut that says he's not scum. I just don't like his reasoning. I feel like I'm struggling with why TT does and what he says that just don't = town.
First Cj being called out. Pushing cj (who I feel is a VI that scum will easily attack) and saying very little about anyone else in the game.
Then there's moments he calls Yabba out that I see something sparkle in the scummy moment.

unvote:
vote: Sundy

I'm listening to my instincts right now. If TT isn't scum with Sundy I need to see who because there is no way Sundy is town. This is instinct (gut and read of his play) He's very low under the radar and suddenly when someone presents a case he calls them scum. I find it interesting to note the DRK has ignored my question and Sundy didn't call him out.

*scribbles notes*

[farside22]

gah Farside. I do agree that a no lynch is a bad idea. But when the lynch on Jakalope was impending, you didn't say "good point, Jora," but only said it later on, even while simultaneously casting slight aspersions on Jora.

And I already explain what Jora stated at the time of the quote you made and the comment I made was after Jora explained his read on ZF. You can keep ignoring that all you please but I know everyone here signed up for a game that they can go back and read for themselves.

As for ZF I think your scum Sundy. I don't see scum bussing this early especially with one scum buddy already dead. It's the only reason I'm not pushing at ZF right now is that my eyes are glued on you.

As for my comment at the end. You haven't said much about DRK I find it interesting that DRK called you out as scum yesterday but you didn't attack him or his reasoning but your attacking me.

[farside22]

I knew it. That guy is one BAD apple. Could we lynch DRK, right now, please?

Also, I love the way Sundy think. He must be town.

What is it you like about his thinking. And remember I'm not Cj I require more indepth comments.

[farside22]

Sundy: I'm talking about the vote yesterday from DRK here where he has a town list and scum list with little post numbers that says town and scum next to it. The one you ignored and never questioned his reads on.

ZF: I don't know what question. Maybe I'm thinking of Sundy. However since I'm thinking, who besides TT do you have a scum read on and why? Do you still think Fitz is scummy? Who do you see as TT's scum buddy and why?

[farside22]

Farside, I am curious about something. What exactly is your read on ZF? You have mentioned several times that you find him suspicious and asked other players why they're voting or not voting him given prior suspicions (Jora, TT, me). You demand of him in your ISO #80 that he answer your questions. In #82, you say "the only reason I'm not pushing at ZF right now is that my eyes are glued on you." You've brought him up quite frequently but never directly analyzed his play, why is that?

I'm still suspicious. I'm trying hard not to tunnel as I have a tendency to tunnel on people I find scummy. I'm trying my best not to do that and take those I have suspicion on as well as the person I find the most suspicious.
Look how much I attacked fitz and had to take a step back, that's how bad I get when I tunnel. I don't let go of my knawing feeling without a good reason. So far reading you and others response nothing has changed my mind on you so far.
I will admit ZF not responding in his last post and not bring anything up new or interesting after talking about wanting more time and now he's ready to vote TT looks hella scummy to put him to the person I would also vote (having one vote and all).......hmmm.....Actually since no one seems to respond to the case and ZF has some people's attention and I find TT more null then scum.

unvote:
vote: ZF

[farside22]

I don't even know what to say at this point, I don't think we have the votes to push Toast forward unless someone would wisen up and realize the case is all there.

farside turning her back at the critical moment baffles me, furthered by the fact that she is now voting Sundy's suspect.

More later.

I don't believe TT is scum. I do have ZF on my radar as and I explained why.

I also have 2 scum team combo right now going through my head.

[farside22]

Sundy and farside...what are your thoughts ons cj and TT? Apologies if you have already provided them...I'm still waking/catching up after my short v/LA.

Cj is a VI. Nothing so far has changed that view and people will use him as an easy lynch.
TT: I don't like ZF's vote on him. I found it scummy as his reason's are not fleshed out. Plus the whole I want more talk while offering nothing to talk about is pretty certain that ZF = scum which makes TT town.

So Yabba: Your fine with ZF's lack of comment and vote on TT while really offering nothing of value to the game today? Why?

TT: I know gut is a poor excuse to you. But there was as I said shinnying moments of good scum hunting and thought processing I forsaw. It was enough for me to take your inconsistency off the table.

[farside22]

In regards to my VI comments about cj it's more then that.
Here are the moments that came off as VI:

Wait, we're not RVSing any more?

Unvote

I'm confoozled, I got here and RVSd and got told off?

No, I know nothing.

How else would a Mafia Goon die, though? With your proposed TTTTCVB, there'll only be one Vig.

So... Farside

doesn't

have a DayKill?

It's cute, newbiesh feel more. I also as I said before found the thought process that cj had in regards to the argument between fitz and myself coming from a town prospective.
Also you can blame the avatar too. Every time I see Lindsey (the character from total drama) I have this ditzy blond that seems to fit cj's post.

[farside22]

I don't like how ZF missed his hammer. I mean: this is a hammer how dammit he could miss it? Well it happens with townies too... but. I disagree with impossibility of ZF+TT team. It looks like ZF theatricality. Like: "Oh, I'm gonna hamma, hamma, hamma" then "ooops, missed it, not my fault it was others who messed it". So if TT flips scum he would be kinda clear.

The same could be said about ZF if he flips scum doesn't that kinda of clear TT?
Listen here is what I see.

Sundy finds ZF scummy
ZF stated he finds Sundy scummy.
Frankly I see them both scummy for separate reasons. However when I see someone vote for weak reason's while saying they want more time for discussion it rings all sorts of false bells in my head.
What is the point of saying lets talk more and in your next post saying, meh nothing is going on lets vote (thinking it's a hammer) TT.

[farside22]

Also, I'm sorry, but I can't see Sundy & ZF as a scum team. May be I'm wrong, will see.

Sorry I didn't explain myself. I see Sundy and ZF scum for seperate reason's but I do not believe they are scum together.
I have 2 seperate scum teams with those 2 players.

I see ZF and Yabba scum team to be frank

g2g will finish this later

[farside22]

Cjdrum: Who are your scum suspects and why?
Will you be following this whole game? You gave me some hope when you had your own oppinion and view on how you saw my actions. what do you think of Sundy/Yabba/ZF?

All thoughts and views would be appreciated.

[farside22]

Sundy what is the point of what DRK's gender is?

[farside22]

unvote:
Vote: cjdrum

I rarely admit to much of anything, but even I have to say that case was well thought out and put together in total town fashion.

[farside22]

Jora: I recall you didn't really comment about my VI comment towards cdj and why I feel that way about him. Can you tell me what your read on him is and how you come to that conclusion?

[farside22]

I have one more question for Jora. On reread I notice you were paying attention to those that lurked, what is your view on ZF and Sundy (I feel those 2 have said the least in this game thus far).

[farside22]

Well at this point, inactivity can't be considered a scumtell at all.

I still consider:

cjdrum/CDB to be a terrible wagon
DRK to be a complacency wagon.
Toast to be the good wagon.

Preferences, everyone? We need to set priorities in order to get a wagon assembled by deadline. Although my mind is spinning in all the mass absences we've had in the game.

Yabba: Why do you find DRK to be a complacency wagon and cjdrum to be terrible?
Who would you see as TT's scum buddy and why?

[farside22]

Magua: No offense and I'm sure you might understand when I ask this in light of the game that just ended recently but I don't trust you.
I also would like to know why you believe a cdj/Yabba connection.

[farside22]

What about yabba do you find scummy?
Also you remember the vanilla game and what I said about claiming. What's your thoughts on how CDB (now cdj) said about TT's claim?

[farside22]

Fitz: Can you please do me a favor. Give me a scum list with reasoning. Also explain to me how is it that the one person you have a town read on is a slot that has been replaced 4 times now = town. I know a game I had 3 people replace a slot and that slot was scum. Replacements = quantity is null at best.

[farside22]

Fuck a duck how do I keep not looking at that deadline.

Mod:

Can we get an extension do to the replacement just taking over and do to the constant prods??

[farside22]

I suggest two extra days

Please state the above.

Magua the only concern I have on CBD is last game he replaced in he didn't do or say anything and was scum. This game not only did he have an opinion, he said something that was like a kick in the stomache that really bothers me.
I don't agree with a TT lynch at this point either.
yabba: I want to know why you disagree with DRK's assessment.

[farside22]

@farside....you are on CDB and s/he looks like they are going to be the lynch. Why do you want an extension? Especially with this game dragging so much and the replacements seemingly having caught up. Should they be the ones looking for an extension?

If I could ever explain in words how much I care about playing mafia and wanting to see a scum hang. It's frustrating to me how many people just lag and don't give it all.
CBD said something that felt townish. It surprised me and I'm not sure what to make of it.
I also didn't unvote because I do believe a lynch gives information.
I also have mixed reads on Magua. ZF was scummy in his non-answers. Magua is really good at playing scum. He knows how to charm in the beginning so he is someone worth keeping an eye on.
I believe TT is more town then what cdj produced. DRK brought up a different prospective that is hard to ignore. I searched the post and asked myself question on cdj and his reactions and behavior. I came back with an inconclusiveness results.

[farside22]

I think we need to focus on one of these three: ToastyToast, DeathRowKitty, farside22.

Why?
Do you find Yabba/Sundy town for some reason I missed?

Vote: Sundy

Back to my original #1

[farside22]

Fitz: Was there a reason you didn't hammer CBD while online?

[farside22]

So your only analysis day 2 vote count and not the end of day 1 vote count because.......????

[farside22]

On second thoughts, no. UNVOTE:

No matter how strong my feelings are, sorry farside, I should listen to Fonz: "Farside22 is always scum".

VOTE: yabbaguy

But you just called me town.

Man I feel like Fonz will be haunting all my games with that damn wiki

Anyways I need to look at something that started gnawing at me last night. I will get back with it later (probably tomorrow).

[farside22]

Fitz: Do you typically look at the wagon of a player that flipped town to find scum?

[farside22]

Fitz: Do you typically look at the wagon of a player that flipped town to find scum?

Yes. I usually assume there is scum on town wagons. It's not always that way but more often than not it is. Especially when it happens more than once in a game. You don't?

Would you care to explain why in this game where you were town you did not then?

Well, that's one down. Time for number two.

vote: andrew94

Seriously...after all the D1 interaction between a94 and Zyrco you come into D2 raring to lynch a94? I know a94 was on your list of suspects yesterdays (though I couldn't find the reasons why) but I find it very hard to believe scum would be so quick to bus their RB. Which is why I am willing to give you a pass today as well.

While I would be surprised if there wasn't scum on the tail end of Zyrco's wagon, I really think we are best served focusing off his wagon. I maintain my D1 suspicions towards tylerj (for which I have given my reasons) and Nacho's play in that slot has not changed my mind. Of the three players not on the lynch yesterday my top suspect is....

VOTE: Nacho

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

vote: havingfitz

In case you missed it. It's called lynching all liars.

[farside22]

What I found fascinating looking through fitz's meta is that he usually tunnel's and has scum suspects in his games as town. I found one scum game that through much of what I believed out the window. He had town reads and made cases. So I was like, wow this tells me nothing about the guy that relates to how he plays this game. However his complete lack of reads or finding a person scummy or even a vote today for anyone really rang false.
Plus not reading what the doc said yesterday or anyone else's reads that flipped town doesn't make sense. I usually look at what everyone says and check on theories and beliefs. Why they felt that way and then I look at who the scum kill and I really have to wonder if they were on to something.
Fitz doesn't bother with any of this and lumps people that were on CBD's wagon. His reads are in short null.

[farside22]

Fitz: The point is in the game I linked you noted that scum tend to go on town wagons' but attacked a player that was not on the wagon at the time you had a scum read on.
This game your scum read is all null

That is a huge difference. I see you pretty much ignored everything I wrote and snipped it down to one comment along with an almost OMGUS attitude.....so everyone that has attacked you is scum......oh wait except Yabba who did that day 1.

*writes more furious notes*

[farside22]

@farside...you have two posts online since my LAL response to you and no comment in here? What's up?

1) I'm arguing in a lylo situation in another game.
2) At the time of both post (in the same game) I'm at lunch in the only place I can gain access to MS and got kicked off of the computer because a customer came into the room and needed the computer.

Are you seriously calling me lurkering? Are you using my posting in another game first without looking at my normal post pattern's during the weekday?

[farside22]

And yeah I get that when you're town you're not going to agree with a case on you. That doesn't mean you can't have town reads on the people making the case against you. People can make mistakes and still seem townie.

I don't have town reads towards either of you. Before or after today's posts.

In fact if you look at fitz's reads through the game he doesn't have a scum read on anyone.

Lets look at some fasinating moments

DRK seems to have no problem posting in other games. If I thought DRK was scum I would vote for DRK but I'm not convinced. DRK!!!! Please replace out! arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh......

2 post later

I don't care for DRK's continued cameo appearances where she lets us know that she's not intested in the game...yet she continues to pop in and puts a vote down on yabba based on gut conveniently right after yabba expresses suspicions towards DRK. And while it gives (or gave) me a headache dealing with farside...for you [DRK] to advocate we not post anymore is in effect trying to restrain two of the most active posters. My top suspect isn't getting any attention so I'll try elsewhere.

VOTE: DRK

Reason for voting on Jack

Agreed - "no lynching on day one is stupid." Hopping on a wagon for the sake of hopping on a wagon...just to avoid a no lynch is even more stupid. Odds favor the day one lynch being a mislynch and those odds get even higher when 'town' jumps on wagons without any good reason. Star didn't exactly leave covered with a town aura and Jak has not helped redeem that player slot IMO.

VOTE: TheJakalope

As for Jak vs Fang...the only reason I'm passing on ZF atm is because of my habit of giving slots that have been replaced 2 or more times a little leeway. Today at least....maybe not tomorrow depending on whether he or I are still around.

Jak replaced into a role that had a lot of suspicion towards it and has done nothing to divert that attention. He has posted just enough to remain in the game but has brought nothing...and despite being so close to being the day's lynch...he has done nothing to save himself. Even when he was (is he still?) at L-1. I see he has posted a few times today but has ignored this game. I'm good with staying on the Star/Jak wagon.

Wishy washy and coming up with an excuse why one is okay to lynch but the other isn't with weak reasoning.

Doesn't like the wagon on TT

Read D2....not seeing anything solid on the Toast cases (especially the }|{opa one).....I've suspected to some degree all the people on the Toast wagon so that supports my doubts on it. I haven't been a big fan, albeit not the most vocally, of cj and after reading D2 I just get a scummy feeling from her.

VOTE: cjdrum

Hold up don't you think the wagon that was on CBD had scum so who did you not like on the TT wagon......right jora who your not voting for like you did in a game that I linked to.

Random ISO...TT seems to be getting a lot of attention so I did one on him. I like most of his posting the first page but then....I got to the post where he says cj is off his scumlist (TT ISO 25). This is followed shortly thereafter by his TOAST rating post where the only bad thing he hass to say towards cj is about cj's "joking approach"...which I admit I find suspect as well...but he (TT) still hass cj above a null read on Sundy and a leaning scum read on }|{opa. Then, strangely enough...within an hour of cj posting (for the first time in almost a week) that he suspects TT (and placing a vote on TT)...TT decides he could see cj and yabba as a scum team. Followed by the unexplained vote on cj. So overall...a decent first page of posting by TT but from ISO 28 on I must say he doesn't come across as very consistent. Why flip to cj so easily when you really really think yabba is scum and from what I can tell...you appear to suspect }|{opa and Sundy as much or more than Sundy. Is you vote on cj there for any reason other than the "joking approach?"

Also...really not liking the totally frivolous and silly apple defense posts by DRK for his cj vote.

A totally useless post that gives no reads on what he think of TT.



TL'TR

[farside22]

Sorry I pressed sumbit.

The short version is that Fitz first of all is staying neutral willing to lynch anyone with little to null reason that I can find.
He then takes only the day 2 vote count at the end of the day, when again he has been suspicious of Jora since day 1, but instead focus's on just the wagon when in another game he was town I linked here, he voted for someone he was suspicious of that was off the wagon.
Finally I do believe scum don't do reads because then they have to commit to said read. Fitz giving no reads leaves him in the clear to be clean since he is so wishy washy when he does do a read on a player.

[farside22]

Jora: I honestly thought reading Magua's and ZF's post that I was the one protected. It's WIFOM, but ZF called me town and came in on day 1 reading fitz as scum with me town.
Day 2 not much from him, but at the end of the day magua has me at the top and called me super town.

Farside asking for an extension while being on the leading wagon, and farside grilling me about being on the same wagon she's on are both super town-tells for her, btw.

p-Edit: BURN!

I don't see a doc who protected a player voting for them. TT is out of that in my mind.
This comment from Magua it's hard to say if Jora was protected

Jora - Really liked Jora D1. Really did. Kind of losing it near the end, though; impatient? D2 has been nowhere near as good. Obviously demotivated, there's none of that spark from D1. Still, with both yabbaguy and CDB, game would be over long before I would get around to voting Jora.

[farside22]

Ah I missed the player in question flipped mafia. That was why you were off that wagon.

Can you explain your lack of reads in this game and how it is you have no scum read on anyone and mostly vote either OMGUS votes or limp on wagon's already formed?

[farside22]

Fitz:
Did this post I make just get put on ignore by you post 699
That is why I did not unvote.


So you give up pushing wagon's based on what others feel, you still think I'm scummy even though I had a town read on DRK and yet you didn't put it together and instead back off and go nowhere.
Your reasoning for why DRK and Jora scummy is as allusive as my 3 year's verbal skills.

Fixed url tag. ~~NS

[farside22]

mod please fix the link in post 709

[farside22]

Everything is a to you misrep? Seriously anything anyone has said is either scummy (because how dare someone accurately describe your game thus far) or everything I stated is a misrep.
Well guess what bub, ZF thought the same fucking thing day 1 I had and he was town.

Your reason's for find DRK and Jora scummy is baseless.
Your case is what again?

Also reading your post above means hey I don't have to explain my vote to anyone because I find everyone suspicious is a weak attempt to allow you to vote anyone for any reason.

[farside22]

This is the only "case" I see you put together for Jora

Don't like giving town reads so I won't. I didn't have any suspicions towards }|{opa until his DRK GF post/Star vote. DRK seems to be overreacting IMO to a lot of people's comments and if it were not for the aforementioned }|{opa suspicion I would probably put my vote on him [DRK]. So I'll FOS DRK.
}|{opa however gets this: VOTE: }|{opa

If you believe there is something I missed please post the link to your "case" on Jora.

And yet for some reason I have yet to understand from a single post you state thus:

farside...my suspicions of }|{opa and DRK are totally independant of each other. I can and do suspect them both. I just find the suspicion I hold of }|{opa to be more significant att than DRK.

Why is total missing from this post on why one is more scummy then the other.

As for DRK

OK...catching up. Here are my random thoughts as I read through.

-DRK for accusing Sundy on NK comment (TT did too??)
-cj for assuming Vig killed andrew. NK joy tell. Playfully defensive at RVS 's DRK reprimand.
-DRK pushing Sundy votes for NK comment. (bad)
-DRK overexagerrating animorph's "too early" for serious votes comment. (bad)
-DRK accusing anomorph of defending Sundy (bad)
-DRK...why is Sundy scummy if not for analyzing the nk when he commented on them?
-}|{opa Do not agree that andrew is necessarily a goon but do agree he was most likely killed by an sk.
-cj appears to be playing obtuse and is overly peppy.
-Posts 73 DRK tells people to not speculate on setup and then in the next post (post 74) he speculates on setup .
-Agree with }|{opa's post 75.
-DRK (who earlier argues the likelihood of a Vig killing N0) states he wouldn't expect a one-shot vig to shoot night 1.
-TT is deadon in post 92. }|{opa's statement that DRK is a GF and subsequent vote on someone with 2 posts who, other than the fact they have only made two posts, has done nothing suspicious.
-}|{opa pushing DRK as a good cop lynch. Why keep mentioning a cop

Yet you say this


DRK appears to have decided on the useless to town option....nice. zzzzzzzzzz

DRK seems to have no problem posting in other games. If I thought DRK was scum I would vote for DRK but I'm not convinced. DRK!!!! Please replace out! arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh......

Yes I find soooooooo much strong reasoning for why you find DRK scummy.

Could you solve this word jumble. Is there a question or an accusation in there somewhere?

Yup. I'm sure some who wants to do an iso will see how often you throw up the word misrep you completely lose the meaning and I think it's the only thing you can use to make someone's acquisitions look like crap so you can keep skating by.

Oh lets count each time fitz used that as a defense then shall weeeeeeee

All under Iso Post #:

16
@farside...there is nothing hypocritical about my voting }|{opa and suspecting DRK. Feel free to disagree of course but IMO you are misrepresentng my vote as something it is not.

21

Your reasoning is crap and is a misrepresentation of my vote on }|{opa. 1-2 suspicions is perfectly fine to place a vote...especially early in the game.

post 22


Other various reasons? You mean "'not reading" [misrep] and "fluff" [opinion...misrep]. Mmmmmmkay.

Also on post 22

For continuing to push a non existent case and misrepping my actions...which are there for all to see.

Post 25

You misrepped it by calling my vote hypocritical and opportunistic.

Post 26

(A bit later)...you say "saying your points on DRK are minor because Jora thought DRK was the GF and may have been trying to signal the cop and didn't vote DRK. Is this correct?" Because? No....compared to. My points against DRK were minor. But for }|{opa's actions/posts I would have voted for DRK. But I felt that }|{opa was more suspect <-------SEE!...hence the difference between my DRK vote and }|{opa's ST vote (IMO) and therefore not hypocritical. I repeated my self because there was nothing more to say about my vote on }|{opa but you continue to ask for more. A simple ISO on me would have saved a few pages of reiteration.

But at least you are showing your misrep skills.

Post 31

You keep making blatant misrepresentations of my actions. Then I explain why they are blatent misrepresentations...and you continue to make blatant misrepresentations of my actions. Then I explain why they are blatent misrepresentations...and you continue to make blatant misrepresentations of my actions. Then I explain why they are blatent misrepresentations...and you continue to make blatant misrepresentations of my actions.

There is at least 1 or 2 more while arguing with me. Now arguing with ZF

Post 52

One thing I noticed in your post on me is it has a few misrepresentations (underlined) in it and overexaggerates (in bold) a bit.

Also on post 52

It "seems?" Way to take a stance (btw...why no vote atm?). Nowhere do I say I'm voting farside for disagreeing with me. I am voting farside for the same reasons she was voting me (opportunistic + accusations of poor reasoning) and FMPOV, misrepresentations and pushing the aforementioned non-existent case. Do those reasons equate to "simply for disagreeing?"

Continue on post 52

Also...I do not appreciate you cutting my quote in half in effect creating a misrep. I said "don't ask me for more reasons becuase the ones mentioned above are all I have atm. If you have two or three reasons for voting for someone and someone else keeps asking you for reasons above and beyond those two or three reasons....you can not give them more reasons if you do not have more reasons to give!

And finally

Post 94
Misreps are scummy too.


Yup attacking with the same word over and over to the point it lost all meaning and people's eyes are now bleeding from this post

[farside22]

fitz: I'm not being insulting when I ask this, but are you reading the game? I pointed out ZF's post myself just 2 pages ago.

unvote

I'm really confused by fitz.

[farside22]

I'm going to be honest. Yeah I know it's mafia who beside town knows what is truth or what.

I saw magua's flip and comment and thought he protected me. I felt if I was the person mafia shot at that maybe it was because I was onto something in my suspicion day 1.
Yeah I'm paranoid.

I had on day 1 Scum:
Yabba
bv310/morph
Sundry
Star (as I said previously star lurking is null we have a replacement that unvoted and still waiting for more info, hence why they are last on my list).

Star and the bv310 has since flipped town which leaves me with yabba and sundy.
Fitz keeps bothering me but I wonder if it's something that I can't put a finger on or if I'm just hypersensative.

Fitz: My post I pointed out that you had only 1 case that I could find on DRK and 1 case on Jora. I wanted you to expand on your reason's for why you find both scummy because I don't see it.

I'm going to go reread yabba (now quilford) and Sundry.

[farside22]

My doc comment post 705

Fitz I have asked you to put down a case, now I already did my search and posted your "case" on Jora and DRK. I'm asking for you to expand on it. Why do you keep avoiding this?

[farside22]

@ Farside. Yep, I think you did a right thing.
IMO Fitz-mafia simply not interested in killing Farside-town. Because he kind of hiding behind this Fitz vs Farside debate.

You know I will kick myself 20 times over if he flips mafia.

Anyways I will take a step back and clear my head

[farside22]

I get the DRK feeling.
I'm just going to put what I thought on day 2 that hit me as what I saw for connections.

I thouoght I saw sunday/DRK connection. It's hard to explain on paper, but the best I can explain is the vote from DRK on Sundy and when I asked why he didn't vote for him the next day he didn't respond. I found the lack of follow thru odd, but I had a town read on DRK early. The lurking and joking around it more annoying.

I had Yabba with ZF (yes I know now that ZF is town but again this was my day 2 thoughts). I didn't like Yabba way of throwing things on ZF then backing off. Again this more difficult to explain as ZF has now flipped town. Yabba and Fitz started to look possible. I remember yabba finding suspicion on Fitz and then after the arguement backing off. He says next to nothing about the guy since and I find scum to avoid their scum buddies or have akward exchanges.

In short I would vote Yabba/Sundy and see which is more realistic.

vote: Sundy

I'm going to see what yabba's replacement will come back with, but Sundy hasn't said much today.

[farside22]

Farside I don't understand why you repeatedly get a scum read on Fitz and then talk yourself out of it.

I'm a stubborn person and proud person. Just because most everything about fitz feels like I would like to tear my hair out, no one agrees with me. I take a step back and think maybe the guy just rubs me wrong. I have a tendancy to see things and hold onto it like a dog with a bone.
But when no one else see's it, I think maybe I'm just crazy. Maybe something about fitz rubs me wrong more then scummy.

I never saw you say you thought he was scummy. Yesterday your scum list was me/zf in the beginning, well he flipped town doctor, where is your head at now?

[farside22]

farside...Sundy has been dropping my name this entire game. I think today's vote is his first but I've definitely been a subtle target for him. He's prbably been laying the groundwork for his current vote.

mmmm I need to check into that. Wouldn't surprise me.

[farside22]

We need prods!

[farside22]

So I read Sundy in Iso to see what he says about fitz. I really find the guy blah.
I don't meant to say that he didn't have a case or thoughts, but it's like a bunch of questions and soft attacks on fitz day 1 that go nowhere.
I want to take a look at something else that is bothering me.....

[farside22]

Okay so I did some meta research on Sundy that was a buss. He' very talkative and very persuasive notice as both alignments (which is seriously lacking here).
What caught my attention is how much time he spends in one game over another. Also although I can't talk about ongoing games. I notice he's lost here and more on an active lurker then the other game he is currently in.
Just look at his search my post and you will see what I mean.
I usually find scum avoiding one game over another because they are scum and I have a feeling (10 to 1 bet I'm right too) that Sundy is not comfortable as scum.
His posting and weak attacks, along with his questions that really go no where makes me feel better about my vote overall.

[farside22]

mod: My computer at home is currently having monitor problems. I may at one point inexplicably disappear for a few days. We should get this fixed soon.

[farside22]

V/LA: farside22, until the monitor is fixed (hopefully soon)[/color][/b]

Consider it LA, with a possibility of disappearing. So far monitor is good, this morning, not so much.

[farside22]

I'm just waiting on those to catch up and put their point and not clogging up the thread any further.
Sundy is still a good lynch. I don't see why he continue's to get no thought from TT.

[farside22]

In short:

He is asking pointless questions that have gone nowhere. He's not pushing a case, actively lurking and I believe that scum (especially after lossing a member night 0) will try not to engage or make waves in this game.
I have basically in short:

Sundy
Yabba


With:
DKR (based more on his play and sudden shift from finding sundy suspicious to saying nothing the next day)
fitz (gut feel that just won't go away and the multiple other things I have issue with like a lack of a real case on DRK).

[farside22]

mod: I will be on Vacation with no computer access this coming weekend. (Memorial Day weekend). Should be back Monday night but put me on Vacation till Tuesday just in case.

[farside22]

I'm up to date, mostly waiting for MS.

Why?

[farside22]

Yaaaahhhhhh!!!! Calling out Yabba and Sundy day 1 as scum makes me feel better.
@Yabba: I think I know you well enough to see weak attacks. When you didn't follow throw with your fitz attack and just sort of lurked off it really pinged my scumdar.
Fitz still looks scummy on paper. At least the argument between us taught me something.

[farside22]

Just read the mafia QT:

My favorite comments made by the scum team:

Sundy
04-15-2011
01:36 PM ET (US)
KILL FARSIDE KILL FARSIDE

This has been a public service announcement.

Really, Yabba, what should we do!?

yabba:

farside- Might be a gamble if the Doctor's around, but I agree that's a plausible kill. I'm struggling to remember the last game where a Town was actually that dangerously accurate about the scumpair so early on.

I want to frame this comment

As for going back I always doubt myself. Only Magua agreed with me about Yabba and I thought maybe I was just reading too much on things.
Damn you people!!!!