Open 295 -- Island Paradise Mafia -- Game Over

[ToastyToast]

Vote:yabbaguy

because I keep thinking of ScoobyDoo when I read your name

[ToastyToast]

Because yabbaguy has yet to say anything. Votes on him will likely trigger a response of some sort.

[ToastyToast]

RQS? I would do it to get the game moving

[ToastyToast]

RQS? I would do it to get the game moving

Then why aren't you?

Because I'm terrible at making questions

[ToastyToast]

I have, but I often ask questions and then get people like yabbaguy there on my back.
whatever, I'll ask some

How much should we rely on setup speculation?
How do you think the events of N0 played out?

[ToastyToast]

Have you actually seen the RQS so far from this game? RQS very rarely accomplishes anything at all and it's been even less productive than usual by a large margin. Wanting to continue it is completely absurd.
Your questions give us nothing to look at in terms of scumhunting. At all. Period. I don't know what you could possibly think we'd get out of them.

Actually, RQS is helpful because you get reactions. I use it to reactionfish. And, yeah, they are my questions, so you should be voting me.
Given that your vote is based on both the questions themselves and }|{opa's response, I would venture to say that it is helpful.

[ToastyToast]

@}|{: Don't limit yourself to an SK already. I've been in c9 games where the vig did shoot N0, and it paid off. A similar thing could have happened in this N0.
SK's are in c9 50% of the time, but the fact that a vig died N0 tells us nothing about the presence of an SK

[ToastyToast]

Stop speculating about the setup -__-
If there are 2 kills tonight, we know there's an sk. Until then, it doesn't matter.

Mod, can you fix the first quote tag in my previous post, please?

>.<

No, we could have a one-shot vig too

[ToastyToast]

It happened in my last C9, so I'm not closing it off. But, as you said earlier, i'm done with setup speculation.

[ToastyToast]

@farside: so, you being frightened by the change from DRK's scumplay gives you a town-read? just clarifying because the word "frightened" suggests suspicion.

@}|{: If you think DRK is mafia Godfather, why aren't you voting for them? Does the single post by startransmission really outweight your accusation on DRK?
Also, wouldn't any mafia member be targeting a cop? Why does this make DRK mafia Godfather?

@DRK: response to }|{'s post?

@everyone else (excluding yabbaguy, I don't have anything to ask him): Why aren't you saying anything?

To get off my RVS, I'm voting for my #1 suspect

Unvote:Vote:}|{opa

[ToastyToast]

I originally had a town read on him, but his last post gave terrible reasons for a vote. Also, it doesn't make sense to me why he would call DRK Mafia Godfather then not put a vote down. I, too, have a town-read on DRK and find his suspicions illogical. Also, I think }|{opa himself is trying to fish for the cop. Of course there is an alternative explanation but that would require a role claim that I do not want to hear.

[ToastyToast]

Sundy is correct, that is what I meant

[ToastyToast]

He's null right now--more of an "active lurker"

[ToastyToast]

Actually, I saw this

@ Mod: Do Godfather appears innocent to Cop?

Would someone who is either godfather or cop ask this? NO
Would a cop blatantly reveal themselves to remaining scum with this breadcrumb? NO

Isn't it logical to vote for the person you suspect the MOST? I'm looking for the challenge or interrogation of DRK, but all I see is: "this person is mafia godfather" It also comes off as defensive suspicions. DRK and TT think I'm scum? IN THAT CASE...

[ToastyToast]

When I see people voting for lurkers, I feel as if they are trying to go for an easy lynch. So, I have a problem with it.
But You didn't really answer my question. If you expect me to vote or if you want to convince town, I need more evidence than one sentence.
Also, my vote on you isn't OMG SCUM, but I do find you scummy. Other players need to get in here, I'm not denying that--I just find your vote lacking and am unconvinced on your defense regarding searching for cop.

[ToastyToast]

}|{opa, unvote yourself.

[ToastyToast]

Because self-votes are idiotic. I suspect him, but a lynch this early is a HUGE no.

[ToastyToast]

I was voting Yabba
I explained why I didnt start RQS. I can link some games where my questions were viewed as completely unhelpful, if u'd like.

[ToastyToast]

Vote:yabbaguy

because I keep thinking of ScoobyDoo when I read your name

[ToastyToast]

The DRK-}|{opa standoff started with my questions, so yes, I found them helpful.

[ToastyToast]

Cjdrum and animorpherv I see as possibilities. startransmission is a legit lurker, thats true. DRK I'm not seeing.
Not to mention that cjdrum and animorpherv have avatars FROM THE SAME SHOW. just thought it was wierd, maybe they know each other.

[ToastyToast]

got caught up in marathon games and kind of neglected regular games
Will catch up and post later today.

I'm expecting a lot of pictures of me being eaten.

[ToastyToast]

Unvote:}|{opa

I'm going to have to examine the arrival of havingfitz and sundy.

Can we agree to call }|{opa OPA from now on? its getting to be a pain and hard to read when saying it over and over again.

[ToastyToast]

lol DRK u sigged me <3

I looked at Sundy, I'm seeing town. His responses to the RQS were quality and his vote on me seems honest
I looked at havingfitz, and I'm seeing null. i don't like his 113.
I looked at startransmision. his "useful post" says nothing

I just noticed this by cjdrum

And, how lucky is it (for the Mafia) that they got the Vig, and for us that the Vig got his kill in (on a Mafioso), too! The irony.

Scum like to congratulate themselves, especially in a game like this when there are kills but no suspicion on anyone yet.
cj has other odd posts like this, like subtly suggesting that having a SK in game is a good thing.

Something about his/her attitude--havingfitz picked up on it earlier. Unless he intends to have this "TEEHEE" thing the whole game, or if its meta, I find it scummy.

I don't see any of the wagons right now, so

Vote:cjdrum

[ToastyToast]

1) SKs basically never win. They aren't exactly the

strongest

players - they have only one death and their kill is gone, and want to kill Mafia

as well as

Town. In fact, it makes more sense for the SK to start on Mafia, as if the endgame comes with >1 Mafia vs. SK, Mafia wins.
2) I intended that post to be jocular and not-to-be-taken-seriously. Turns out, the above thinking leaked through, but this was my original intention.

1 isn't true AT ALL.
2. Thats part of my point. Your posts have ALL had that same tone. Unless its meta, its odd and distracting.
Also funny that you decide to post only when I vote you.

[ToastyToast]

Scum like to congratulate themselves, especially in a game like this when there are kills but no suspicion on anyone yet.

What are your opinions on cjd also including the reverse of that?
And yes, you have been sigged

Its null, my votes intent was to draw cjdrum out. I read one of HF's posts and found the same oddities he mentioned.
It worked, and now he's voting me as his defense! lol

[ToastyToast]

If you want me off your back, then form a case with support plz.
Your posts stuck out when I ISO'd the lurkers.

[ToastyToast]

there's a difference between banter based on experiences with a player elsewhere and speaking of game mechanics.
and it would have drawn you out if you were reading the game w/o posting

^^I stand by the other comment you pointed out, but, honestly, look at the player list:
Who has contributed: DRK, farside, havingfitz, me, opa, yabba
I've spoken with each of them, and don't see them as scum
So I HAVE to look at the people slipping under the radar. I looked at sundy and startransmission, the next most active, and didn't find them scummy either. Then I looked at you and found something.
Not hypocritical, just me going down the list.

Also, the "do they know each other?" was a legitimate question. Given that I've had enough crappy experience with people who know each other outside game and decided to cheat with each other, eventually resulting in a mass replacement--I can ask that.

Well then, what other input do you have on this game? Seems to me that your acting as if I'm the only one here, the only one who voted you out of suspicion.

[ToastyToast]

Unvote:cjdrum

No longer on my scumlist.

I find farside to be intimidating (she controls the open themes!), but not scum.

I need to make a legit list if i'm going to figure this out...just so friggin lazy right now.

[ToastyToast]

I also listed other various reason I find you scum in my last post. And yes when I ask someone twice for

other

reason's they find a person scummy and I get nothing but the same garbage over and over I will accuse that player of not reading and skimming the game.

Other various reasons? You mean "'not reading" [misrep] and "fluff" [opinion...misrep].

For continuing to push a non existent case and misrepping my actions...which are there for all to see.
VOTE: farside22
Don't ask me for more reasons becuase the ones mentioned above are all I have atm.

If fluff is an opinion, how can it be a misrep?
Farside made her case, so I can argue that "non-existent case"=a misrep too
I also don't like the last line. You don't have anymore reasons for a vote other than farsides accusation for you.
Pushing a case that no one else is on is not scummy. TBH, you are an active player but I haven't clearly understood your reasons for votes. In your defense, I can tell that you are reading.

@cjdrum: Why exactly is keeping things under control scummy?

[ToastyToast]

I still think this farside-havingfitz argument is town on town. It seriously has turned into "yes it is, no it isn't."
More in a few! For reals this time!

[ToastyToast]

Always fun drudging through setup guessing.
Opa... the self vote, the invisible text. The vote on me. Yep, pretty sure he's town.

what about these three things gives you a town-read?

I agree, that wagon is the most interesting thing in the game so far. Farside attacking yabbas vote on havingfitz is interesting as well. I don't find that an empty vote at all, but a justified one. Oh well, farside comes around to the havingfitz wagon eventually.

Could you clarify your stance on this? it seems like you are taking far's side (teehee punny) w/o explaining what about it is "interesting"

Gosh, I could be scum lurking right now and no one would even notice me! (prod-dodge and promise to maybe theoretically post tonight possibly)

Hmmm, this could be a joke...or it could be ZOMG SCUM SLIP KILL IT

DRK, you say you are happy with your startransmission vote. How strong is your scum read on him?
@bv310: still waiting for you to say something

I was hoping my startrasmission ISO would help get me into this game, but I'm still at a loss as to who we suspect. I find little scum motivation behind the active players, so think questioning the lurkers should be done to a larger extent (yeah, this includes me).

[ToastyToast]

@Havingfitz: What about DRK's popping in and out of the game causes you to vote in comparison to the other lurkers who are doing the same thing? Couldn't come up with a better way to phrase that question...

[ToastyToast]

I can see bv310 scum, but am unsure about Sundy. His vote on me was odd but I saw it as a legitimate mistake of fact. On the other hand, it was still a terrible reason to vote me.

And I'm sorry about the lurking, farside, finals coming up.

[ToastyToast]

ani/bv have posts a grand total of 7 posts! That ISO sure was useful!

You want me to explain my lack of scumhunting? Its the fact that this game has a curse of inactivity, and so I have no good information to bite on. I have no strong reads one way or the other.

Of all the active players, yabba has acted the most scummy.

@farside: If you are referencing the fact that I'm more active in other games, know that I consider those games to be more important because something is actually going on.

A few comments on yabba:
Looking back on his ISO, he has changed his stance in almost every argument
It went from "jora wagon is bad" to "jora is scummy" with no vote
After jora wagon faded it went to "havingfitz" had the worst hop on the wagon, even though he probably gave the most reasons for his vote.
Then he votes startransmission when everyone begins the lurker-hunt. startransmission had the more people suspecting him in comparison to the other lurkers
Now farside brings me up and I get a yabba FOS

I like DRK's argument but am unwilling to vote Sundy atm, and bv has too little information to warrant a vote.

Therefore,

Vote:yabbaguy

He's my best bet right now

[ToastyToast]

my posting has remained consistent in the game. Posted quotes were marking my frustration with this game.
So you are now voting me because I'm stalling?
I've been plenty active in 1) the opa wagon and 2) my calling out on cjdrum. To say that I am stalling is BS.
Have I faded into the background? Yeah, but I am not stalling.

[ToastyToast]

@farside: They both are contributing factors. Since I've been busy IRL, I've ultimately had to reduce my time on the site across the board. When I do catch up, this one tends to come last because I rarely see anything new. It was just a giant argument between you and havingfitz for days, which gave me no information other than causing me to see you both as town.

I'm expecting a lot of pictures of me being eaten.

[ToastyToast]

BUTTERED TOAST

DRK: I don't think her arguments are based on emotion; love her 309. The inactive to active means nothing, and she is scum-hunting better than most in this game
Havingfitz AND farside22: I've already mentioned that I think its town on town. The points got weak over time, but more importantly no one seemed to comment on it. Scum probably didn't care either way, and were waiting for townies to pick sides. No one did.

TOAST

Zerofang (leaning town): Lack of info from ani/bv made me suspicious, but Zero has redeemed his slot with all the recent goodposting
cjdrum: responses to my vote was good, but I still don't like his 'joking' approach (past games might be helpful for comparisons)
Sundy: Really have no opinion on him. Couldn't find anything significant in my ISO of him; wiling to change his vote in light of new evidence is a good quality, but null nonetheless.
Jora (leaning scum): I didn't like his early game, and some of his more recent posts, like recommending cjdrum unvote, disagree with most of his reads. On the other hand, he has calmed down since the wagon and could simply be having the same problem as me in regards to getting into the game.

BURNT TOAST

yabbaguy:I'm voting him. The only read he's properly explained is his read on startransmission, and even then there isn't much. see 341
TheJackalope: His recent vote on yabba makes me uncomfortable. Startransmission never helped out town. The fact that there is no large wagon makes this a perfect time for distancing. Startransmission never game his scumreads, I would like a more complete stance by Jackalope.

[ToastyToast]

Unvote:Vote: Jackalope

Already explained that I have a scum-read on him. Definitely okay with this lynch.

[ToastyToast]

OMG what a freud slip. Funny.

LMAO

[ToastyToast]

I'm Only willing to vote yabba or jak. Jak is closer, my vote stays

[ToastyToast]

Vote:yabbaguy

Like, 100% sure.

[ToastyToast]

You know, all these posts against me are great and all, but....oh, they don't say anything.

[ToastyToast]

Well I can't really respond to that...the only things you seem to have stated against me are my telling jora to unvote himself and my later "sorry, I'm busy" remarks throughout the game.

I already explained that I saw no reason to unvote jora at the time, but that his self-vote was anti-town in the situation that he is town. It was way to quick to lynch someone, and his vote wasn't helping matters. I didn't want to unvote him because I had no other strong suspects. Never did after that either.

And I am busy. And unmotivated. That is not a scum-tell.

Jackalope's town flip just convinces me more that you are the scum in that you led the wagon on him but weren't the primary contributors to his case. A jackalope lynch was easy--transmission lurked and jackalope didn't put up much of a fight. Now you're going after a person with relatively the same activity level. Why? I'm an easy lynch, too. I haven't done much to effect that game and am in a pull of null reads. I would have preferred a lynch of you yesterday, but that wasn't about to happen, and felt that jackalope had the secondmost points against him, but they were largely a result of the pressure forming against him.

Also, on the results of the night phase: the fact that there were no kills makes me think that there are no vigs or SK's (I suppose one-shot vig could exist). I highly doubt the chance of two successful doc-blocks in one night.

[ToastyToast]

Are you kidding?

@Mod: Do SK have to send in a kill each night?

From my experience, they usually have to do so.

Its what

I think

happened. Excuse the WIFOM, but mafia would not hold off on a kill this early.
Also, with a vig death and a mafia death N0, I am seeing that they killed each other. This only works when paired with tonights results. And vigs do shoot N0, happens all the time.

I'm not saying that there aren't other options, I'm just suggesting what I find the most likely and what I intend to be operating on. Instead of looking for individual scumminess, looking for associations (or lack thereof) will be more helpful.

And you mean the previous suspicion of me voting you? lol, yeah cuz those were great reasons. Where, after that little argument, did you mention suspicions on me?

when there is a case of crap upon more crap against me, I can't help but get frustrated.

jora gets scumpoints for saying its "all over" if I'm lynched, but its no different from his usual play

I can see cjdrum and yabba scum team. cjdrum does not once mention the jackalope wagon. NOT ONCE. Especially when getting close to deadline, you think he would consider it. Looks to me like distancing from a wagon for town credit. Instead he goes after ZF--but no vote!
yabba and cjdrum hardly mention one another. yabba does so only once, when cjdrum says he'll put a vote on ZF. And yet, we never hear a response. And now, instead of coming back and continuing a case on ZF, or giving an answer as to why he didn't put a vote down, he votes me.

[ToastyToast]

Sorry, but once again your responses fail to make any sense to me...
Ok, so SK can withhold a kill. I still think an SK would have gone for it, given his wincon is to be the last one standing.
And so you are saying that mafia wouldn't withold their kill? Isn't that what I was suggesting?
What person had to hold off on a kill to avoid people from thinking he was said role? More likely for an SK to pretend he was vig.
And its not a fast decision to make, its one I've been considering.

And the posts you linked of your suspicions on me are the exact same ones that were involved with the argument. You later unvoted and then said absolutely nothing about me. Then its BAM lets switch to farside, the opponent of the biggest wagon, for "keeping things under control."

And by saying that I'm looking for scumbuddies, I'm suggesting that you can't any associations with me and other players? Thats definitely not true, I have plenty.

The case on me D1 is crap, the case on D2 is non-existant

Your interpretation of my jora quote: thats incorrect. it means "Jora got an additional scum point there, but its not worth a vote"

Jackalope was L-1. It only required one person to lynch if it was necessary. You weren't going to be there so you should have placed your vote down where you thought it should be.

[ToastyToast]

Yet in that case there would have to be a kill first, and he would have to reveal his status as a vig, which has not happened.

[ToastyToast]

If this was merely a game of probability, then we'd be RVS everyday. But it isn't, because the actions of each player change said probability. Sounds like another "if i'm wrong, don't blame me!" post

I voted for jackalope, but would have much rather had you lynched. It wasn't going to happen

My questions were pointless? I was trying to get reactions. They may be pointless from your POV, but for me I was scum-hunting. Passively? yes, but I sure as hell was doing a lot more than the other lurkers. Not to mention that I was the first going against jora and I challenged cjdrum actively.

[ToastyToast]

@jora
1)Zerofang wasn't close to a lynch
2)Altough I am tasty (DRK and Zero both know), My name is ToastyToast
3) "for some reason" isn't much of a reason, and, as much as I agree that yabba and cjdrum ping scummy, its awfully convenient to say "all three are scum," when there is an argument between us (taking both sides)

[ToastyToast]

Hmm...
1) Indeed. And this is no good. If you help me to change it, i'll unvote you.
2) Sorry, will not happen again.
3) 2 scums and one SK = three scums. Are you thinking that not all the bad guys are scums but only those who mafias?

1)Nope
2)No problem
3)No, all bad guys are scum. I'm wondering why you assume that cjdrum and yabba are a scum team who found an SK in me. It seems too convenient that you are essentially agreeing with both sides. You are also narrowing it down to a single option, which is what cjdrum attacked me for. Again, I am of the opinion that there is only a mafia team left, as an SK holding off a kill this early is unlikely and mafia could have been doc/blocked.

[ToastyToast]

@Farside: I know your question is for yabba, but I feel like posting about Sundy. Basically, I feel like we're going after him for reasons similar to Jackalope. in other words, the reasons aren't really accurate. I also don't see who Sundy's scumbuddies would be.

@ZF: Basically,this also my list
In my opinion, yabba has yet to make a good case, and I think he's looking for little things to attack on.

The scummy content from Toast is the lack thereof. Simple. ISO and you judge it.

Which is itself not a great thing to determine scum. Again, remember Jackalope lynch? Same. Exact. Reasons. The difference? I actually popped in from time to time--see if I could get a reaction to questions, but this game was...well, boring, and I was busy.

[ToastyToast]

@TT: If you really believe that, then you are not reading the game. Jak was lynched for not provide anything useful to the game. He comes in as a replacement and only mentions Yabba and said nothing else about any of the players in the game. Sundy is a different story all together as I just mentioned before.

Yabba's reasons for wanting me lynch are general uselessness. The reasons we lynched Jak is as you said. Its the same argument.

[ToastyToast]

It may be in a different style, but the central argument is founded on the same point. That not contributing always means scum. The same goes with Sundy, but its more like..."I will say something about my main scumread, but nothing more."

[ToastyToast]

read the post after it. Jack, me, and sundy. All the arguments are the same.

[ToastyToast]

@Farside: Its obvious that I've suspected yabba from yesterday
cjdrum was already suspicious, my unvote didn't mean I was clearing him as town. It wasn't OMGUS. It was the fact that their arguments fail. sorry, but I still don't see the sundy case. Thats all there is to that one

@jora: 1)That means nothing. He could just as easily NOT kill me to avoid suspision
2) Lol suspicion based on style = bad. I just follow Andrius' "Townier Than Thou" lists.
3) Huh? You can't find anything but those points?
4) You can believe it is OMGUS if you want, but given that, as you said, I ALREADY SUSPECTED YABBA AND DID NOT CONSIDER CJDRUM TOWN.....not really OMGUS.

[ToastyToast]

Fine with me

Unvote:Vote:cjdrum.

[ToastyToast]

Hmmm, yeah sorry, Farside. I have repeatedly said that I don't understand the Sundy lynch. I want a yabba or cjdrum lynch.
Also,@Sundy: I am not voting for cjdrum because I want people off of me, I am voting for him because I think he's scum and I seem to have more support on him than I do on yabba.

[ToastyToast]

1) Attitude, but that was ended with my 1st vote on you
2) You + Yabbaguy makes an awful lot of sense
3) Vote hopping: I can't track your train of thought at all, don't really know where your suspicions are...in contrast to farside, ZF, and even yabbaguy, you seem to be too flexible with your reads. A proper scum list on your part would be awfully nice plz
4) The point on which you attacked me today (my speculation) is not something I see to be enough to warrant a vote, and thus the only reason I see for your vote lies within yabba's own reasons. I just don't think there is an SK among us.
5) GUT, and its a strong one. My gut basically starts my case on you, and with a suspicion in mind I've been paying a lot of attention to your posts. So, little things stick out.

[ToastyToast]

Also, this vote is rediculously scummy. Like, not even funny rediculously scummy.

Not really, if anything DRK's vote is scummier. I already stated cjdrum was on my scumlist, and I think he's scum with yabba. Since there were two votes on cjdrum and only mine on yabba, I have no problem lynching one of the two.

[ToastyToast]

Yeah. Since when did the apple get a vote to lynch?
But honestly, what's wrong with Toasty? cjdrum is obvious Mcobvious Town and I bet you know it.

What has cjdrum done to make him obvtown. Throwing the term around is one thing but actual proof is another. I've ISO'd cjdrum 2...maybe 3 times? and still do not see protown in him.

[ToastyToast]

Well, I claim Vanilla Townie (not that that will change anyone's mind)

@HavingFitz: The list was in no particular order.

And its notsomuch that my reasons for lynching cjdrum change so much as it is I added reasons to lynch him. Was my first vote to draw him out? Yeah, but there's a reason I picked him over other lurkers in the game.
I have nothing else to say, figured my disinterest would get me lynched eventually.

[ToastyToast]

Happy scumday yabba! And no, I don't think that was a hammer.

The only way I see sundy as scum is the whole "distancing while suspecting" thing goin' on.
Other than that, No way.
However, the same can be said for farside's little "oh, but my gut!" thing going on; when it gets to be relatively certain that I'm getting lynched, she hops off my wagon for town-cred post-flip.

[ToastyToast]

^^shameless chaining of lynches is bad

[ToastyToast]

Hmm... From what I've said (i.e. from my "chain" post above ^^^) I don't see how lynch would be chained (prolonged?) on ZF if you flip town. Which makes me think that you going to flip scum, and admit it.

Because clearing ZF as town based on a town flip by me is still bad play and 2) I re-read that post. the las part "So if TT flips scum he would be kinda clear," what would be clear?

[ToastyToast]

@ZF: Why is Toast scummy for his vote and not Fitz, DRK, CJ & Jora, who also hopped on a bandwagons with limited reasoning?

and just the general lack of other mentions to Toast, and I think I have a lead presuming Toast flips red.

What makes this buddying and not a legitimate question? ZF challenging me because of my vote, but ignoring the others IS something that can be scummy. This is a bad link between us, but his ignoring me is valid.

I myself wouldn't call that a weak reason. Yes, I have not much evidences. In fact no strong scumtells at all - just guesswork. But I strongly feel TT is a scum.

So its a gut read?

By the last part I meant "ZF is dramatically trying to distance from your scum-flip".

Except he's on my wagon. And v/LA.

[ToastyToast]

making a case does not equal tunnelling. You haven't considered cjdrum, its the same thing. And your 1) im in disagreement with.

[ToastyToast]

@CD: uhh im not laying low, I think DRK is town and I think you are scum. I have nothing else to say atm because no one else seems to have anything to say. I can't post content if there's nothing to post on. Not to mention this week=finals week.

Could you point exactly what the problem with my "portrayal" of early game vote reasons is? Its D2, there is SOME new content, and I found his reasons for voting me to be poor. Also, look at his portrayal of myself in early game. Is he still voting me because of MY reasons for voting him early game? I would say no, and thus our thought process is fairly similar.

[ToastyToast]

Also, making scumbuddy connections before a flip is not clever.

Unless said scumbuddy is operating on this and says "well, if I'm not clever, then they'll think I'm town!" Its an irrelevant idea because it can easily be reversed.

Eh, I was just weighing up pros and cons, but when you put it that way I'd probably vote me for doing that too.
Not that that makes me change my opinion on the subject, I just see why you'd think it was a scummy thing for me to say.

So you agree with him?

[ToastyToast]

getting an extension will just stall this game further. It just means the same thing will happen tomorrow.
CDB or yabba are fine with me, but (obv) CDB is much more likely at this point.

[ToastyToast]

Sundy sounds like too easy a lynch today. havingfitz attacking farside? its not only consistent with his earlier actions but also unlikely for scum to attempt to lynch a more active player who is going to be difficult to lynch in the long run.

[ToastyToast]

@TT. What? Why do you say Sundy sounds like an easy lynch?

And when you say "having fitz attacking farside?"...to what do you refer? Do you mean me pointing out that farside's LAL case is baseless

Im saying your case on her has more merit behind it than her case on Sundy. Lynching Sundy is easy because, well, does anyone have a solid town read on Sundy? nope.
And that was more-or-less an "im here guys" post. I have some wagon analysis that I am going to look into tonight.

[ToastyToast]

ChannelDelibird - 4 - ToastyToast, DeathRowKitty, farside22, Magua
ToastyToast - 3 - yabbaguy, }|{opa, ChannelDelibird
DeathRowKitty - 2 - havingfitz, Sundy

Havingfitz switched to me before CDB self-hammered.

Anyways, assuming that we have two mafia left, there is at least one scum on the CDB wagon. We know Magua was a doc, and I know what I am. So that leaves DRK and farside as options for a lynch today. DRK's lynch was present D2 but it was also an unpopular one. Its possible to have one scum on the DRK wagon, of course, but only as a means to look better by distancing from the lynch, and, perhaps a little distancing from a scum-buddy as well.

Nonetheless, i would say that there is at least one scum on my wagon as well (at least, more likely than a scum on DRK's wagon). This leaves me with the options of yabbaguy and jora. You all know my opinion on yabbaguy, but the CDB flip came as a surprise to me and I feel that jora has snuck under the radar. He certainly is not the most townie player, but

something

is suspicious about that slot. All the back in D1 he was role-fishing for a cop. he hops around with arguments based on gut (which is incredibly hard to believe in a game that I have almost no opinion on whatsoever).

Conclusion: I think jora is scum. I think its with either farside or DRK.

[ToastyToast]

Oh,

Vote:}|{opa

[ToastyToast]

Guys, don't turn this into a 1v1. I don't want to lynch either of you. jora, your case is interesting. the only thing i don't understand is how you know yabba was the person to shoot me. Explain that plz. Magua's crumbs are noticeable, and attempting to kill me makes sense. I was staying under the radar, pushed a few cases that would point to either cjdrum or you as scum.

I'd choose DRK over the others though, for me that would clear farside as town. If DRK flips scum, I definitely see sundy as scum as well.

[ToastyToast]

TT...I've missed the part where someone shot you. Could you post a link or something that clarifies what you are talking about?

farside...I'm not really in the mood to continue this debate and propagate a wall post war. If there was something in your wall post above that you wanted me to respond to feel free to make a more succinct post and I will consider it. Others can weigh in if they see fit and I'll be happy to discuss further with them. Not so much with you as I think you are scum.

jora is suggesting that Magua's slot protected me the night we had no kill, which is why he was strongly against my lynch

[ToastyToast]

65%? That sure is a high percentage, isn't it? (sarcasm) not to mention that ZF was nonetheless not very vocal on my lynch. But that is besides the point. I am no suggesting said theory as fact, but questioning why jora thinks yabba attempted this failed kill on myself, and not someone else here.

[ToastyToast]

I thouoght I saw sunday/DRK connection. It's hard to explain on paper, but the best I can explain is the vote from DRK on Sundy and when I asked why he didn't vote for him the next day he didn't respond. I found the lack of follow thru odd, but I had a town read on DRK early. The lurking and joking around it more annoying.

Yeah I've been thinking about it and, if my vote analysis is wrong with the choice b/w yabba and jora, then sundy and DRK make a good scum team. Both were under the radar until people pushed them to speak up, which makes sense given that town was deciding b/w two town to lynch. Also, DRK defending me makes sense from a scum perspective because I think the day as a whole pointed to me, not CDB, as the correct lynch.

Based on my own vote analysis (which would place one scum among DRK or farside) I feel comfortable with

Unvote:Vote:DRK

. Sundy works as scum, sure, but I'm starting to see this more and more.

[ToastyToast]

In the mean time, havingfitz, have you re-examined my slot yet?
And farside, did you check to see if you indeed agree with havingfitz regarding Sundy?
Just some things to talk about while we wait

[ToastyToast]

I'm still here, waiting for replacements to catch up

[ToastyToast]

Firstly, did I inherit that vote from DRK?

Secondly, could someone give me/link me to/give me the number of a decent case against Sundy, just so I can assess the situation? I don't want to keep wasting everyone's time.

Yes, I was voting DRK. Ask farside about sundy, for she is the most involved in the case

[ToastyToast]

I'm up to date, mostly waiting for MS.

Congratulations....could you give some sort of summary of your findings? Perhaps a few main suspects? Or dare I say....a vote?

*gasp*

[ToastyToast]

I actually don't think goomba was a super-bus. DRK did not bus Sundy, his play shouldn't be ignored.
Havingfitz is prob town.

so that leaves MS, jora, and goomba.

MS replaced my biggest scumread at the beginning of my game
jora had that strange moment in D1, and has since changed his posting style
goomba: DRK and Sundy makes sense; but goomba and sundy doesn't

no vote for me yet, I need to think it over.

[ToastyToast]

Oh how I laugh. Toast, we'll vote for you whenever we want to. And I'm inclined to.

I'm not an expert on C9++, but I think there can only be one scum left, or none, right? Might have SKs though.

Um, what? Whose WE? So, you think someone other than me deserves a vote, buttt you'll vote me whenever. Huh.

The lack of a second kill every night suggests no SK. There is only one scum remaining.

[ToastyToast]

I agree with jora. Should all night actions be claimed as well?

[ToastyToast]

EBWOP: ...DRK

claimed

before...

He did?

[ToastyToast]

^wow...

First time that's happened .o.

DISREGARD WRONG GAME POST >.>

rofl...i was like, another replacement?!

[ToastyToast]

so claimed is TTTTTDV (if goomba claims VT) in other words, someone who has claimed VT is lying. thats helpful. This also suggests that the person remaining is godfather.

[ToastyToast]

in other words,

someone who has claimed VT is lying.

thats helpful. This also suggests that the person remaining is godfather.

Well no shit.

And does it matter whether there is a potential godfather or not? We're down to one scum (unless someone has another theory) and if we have no investigative roles in the game, a GF isn't any different than a standard goon.

If you seriously did not get the sarcasm in that statement...*facepalm*

Technically there could still be an investigative role in DRK/Goomba, since they hadn't claimed.

[ToastyToast]

All I can say regarding the sundy buddying accusations is that I was leaning town on Sundy for most of the game. Even yesterday, I felt that DRK would have been a more accurate choice. Scum generally bus their buddies at least once, which means I am one to believe that scum in goomba/myself/fitz. I also feel like scum would have

been on

the sundy wagon if they felt their was enough suspicion away from them.

@havingfitz: why do you have a town read on goomba?
@goomba: why do you have a town read on havingfitz?

I'm fine with Toast as long as MS is next on the block. With us being down to the last 5 players I don't have a problem lining up lynches (if it comes to a Day 5). I don't think I could be convinced att to go after either izak or }|{opa based on their voting throughout the game. If either of them do turn out to be scum then their bussing did the trick.

Except we can only line up the lynches two times. So, its best not to chain. Your assuming that it HAS to be either me or MS, which troubles me. Also, votes are just a part of scumhunting and going based solely on them is stupid. You have to ask: what was my motivation for the wagons? What were my reasons?

Thinking about it, havingfitz trying to turn town on farside has an odd motivation behind it. With the no kill, its possible scum thought they had found serial killer, or wanted a chance to shoot at her (so played the doctor).

[ToastyToast]

Umm... I don't have a town read on him?

I really don't like havingfitz. Not in the same way as I think Sundy is scum, but more that many of the things he's said look like they could be from a scum mindset. It seems to me that he's saying a lot of things that I might say, if I were scum. It might mean nothing, but I've got a bad feeling about him.

Why, then, am I the more likely scum when compared to havingfitz?

[ToastyToast]

Toast has been avoiding this thread. No post since Monday in here. Posting elsewhere onsite Wednesday and Tuesday.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Toast

Look at the activity on this thread. I've checked it multiple times a day, to see speculation rather than actual hunting.

[ToastyToast]

I have nothing to defend against, there is no case against me. All that has been said is that my voting patterns suggest a Sundy mafia team, which, quite frankly, is not nearly enough proof of it. Other last thoughts: don't go with any of the, "lets lynch this person tomorrow if toasty doesn't flip scum" crap. Its dumb and will cost the game, make a case like whats been done every day.

If I'm lynched I don't think its for play, but for no one having any better ideas. Town better win regardless.

Also, havingfitz is my #1 scumread atm, for my earlier observations and his last post. If you ISO me, you would see that I have been less active in this game THROUGHOUT, because I haven't been able to find clear-cut reads. also, we have a lot of lurking across the board. In my opinion, the posts made this day have all been "WELL I GOTTA SAY SOMETHING" posts.

Vote:Havingfitz

[ToastyToast]

^^lol

[ToastyToast]

Dont have any town reads right now, but, in order

you, goomba, midnight, jora

[ToastyToast]

No, thats the order of lynch preference

[ToastyToast]

Ur going to lylo

[ToastyToast]

YAYYYY. I'm actually kinda happy it turned out to be yabba since I had so much suspicion on him early on in the game. Being under pressure led to my Cjdrum fight :/. but great job, izak, you were obvtown to all of us in the dead thread.

[ToastyToast]

hey! I didn't like yabba either! sundy's another story tho...