Road to Wrestlemania: Game over - WWF wins - BANG BANG!

[sottyrulez]

We like VP's plan to rid the rumble of the people we wouldn't want around at end game first. KK's idea of an un-nightkillable vig is very tempting but it's early and I don't like the idea of power roles coming out to try and grab the belt.

Inverted atomic drop to Vezo
Standing dropkick to vezo

[sottyrulez]

I don't see why we can't just work down the list VP provided. Order matters little if we're dumping them all out right? Also, now Vezo is out are our moves active again or do we have to wait a full 24 hours until we lay the smackdown on a new target?

[sottyrulez]

Baby Spice shouldn't have the belt. As for the rest, I suppose VP has taken the "fun" out of it all, but I would rather a possible asset get the BP than whoever wins the random pile on.

Headbutt to Lowell
DDT to Lowell

I'd like Thor on the approved list for pretty much the same reasons as Baby, Jason piling on him after the mountainous game is suspect to me.

[sottyrulez]

Well I'll finish off Snake.

Backbreaker: Snakeplissken

Clothesline over top rope: Snakeplisskin[/b]

[sottyrulez]

Oh, I missed your moves because they were linked and I was looking for bold. Do they count if I hit them on eliminated people? Hopefully they don't

Backbreaker:Gobots
Clothesline:Gobots

If he's going to be cowardly, let's hit him.

[sottyrulez]

Russian leg sweep Bella
Standing leg drop bella

Both members of the hydra are sick with the flu so we might be a little slow with updates. Will try and keep tabs on the game though as much as possible.

[sottyrulez]

RE: post 334

So the plan is to work everyone down to 1 hp and then work out the winner from there? I don't have an issue with that if that's the new plan.

[sottyrulez]

That works.

Swinging neck breaker: bristep123
Pendulum backbreaker: bristep123

Scum reads so far are Jason (moves on Thor were out of place), Kise (pointed out a "slip" on SB then didn't bother to vote him)
People we wouldn't mind seeing with the title: Triple D, Gman and possibly KK

[sottyrulez]

The support mechanic is awesome.

Stomp Scott Brosius
Uppercut Kise
Knife edge chop Kise
DDT Kise

[sottyrulez]

Yup, really hating on Jason right now, he really needs to answer VP's 452. Post 444 also makes sense to me, I like Thor so far.

Spiked piledriver: Triple D
Sharpshooter: Triple D

[sottyrulez]

We did a couple of moves on Triple D just to knock his health down a little in case he wasn't picked to be the winner. I thought that was the whole point of all this right now, get it done as quick as possible.

However, it's real close to the end and there are a lot of moves to go around so I think we need to work out who we do want to win. I want Kise out ASAP but then I think I want to support Triple D to win it all. I don't get all the hate around him so some explanation would be nice. Erratus Apathos hasn't made much of an impression on me so far so I'm not excited about him winning. Other than those two, I like the other potential champs.

@Vas, what's your issue with Gman?

[sottyrulez]

Nero, who should get the belt then?

[sottyrulez]

Headbutt: Jason

He needs to respond to 452. Kise is also a pretty great vote.

Primate, why the Trendall vote?

[sottyrulez]

Sorry for the lack of posting. Sotty has been pretty seriously sick and it has effected both members of the hydra. Things should get better over the next week, if they don't we will replace out.

Thoughts:

Hoppster is scummy. His attacks on Chesskid just look opportunistic and his play beyond that looks IIOAy.

AV's reaction to “coasting gate” with VP was really overally paranoid and scummy.

Jason is coasting way more than I'm comfortable with to call him town.

Thor's town read on Baby Spice is just bizarre. I want that explained. That just reeks of him attaching himself to a player for town cred. Compared to the pressure she is receiving, he is really over defending her.

Bristep's RVS vote was ridiculous and I see no content past that. I wouldn't mind pressuring him.

Biggest scum read as of right now is Thor.

Backbreaker: Thor

[sottyrulez]

Thor now that you mention it, I do remember that particular post you made regarding Baby Spice. It if was noteworthy of explaining particularly well why you have a town read on Baby Spice, we wouldn't now be asking your for an explanation of your town read on her.

Seeing the explanation only bothers me more, because I see you latching onto a single action which looks pretty null to me and using it as an entire foundation for calling someone town, to the point where you are actively defending that player while seemingly discarding subsequent actions because you found Baby Spice town based on a single action.

I can recall approaching Haylen in particular the same way in a few games as scum.

[sottyrulez]

Thor, the point is that just because Baby thinks you are a worthy end game player if you are town isn't a town tell on her behalf. The fact you are using this as a basis to defend her pretty heavily against AV is flawed this early in the game. Why are you so confident? Why not let Baby defend herself before you leap into the breach?

We think it is because you are buddying up to her and positioning yourself for “I told you so” town cred if we do ever lynch Baby. Simply because the defence is disproportional to the attacks on her. It doesn't make sense.

[sottyrulez]

ISO is reading all the players post in isolation. You can do this by clicking a players name in the drop down bar at the bottom of this post.

And Jedi, I'm not sure how you expected people to react considering you made no mention of how far along you were or weren't in your read. We're not mind readers.

Also furc's guaranteed scum tell is BS and I'm not talking about Baby Spice.

[sottyrulez]

If we're lynching/pressuring lurkers I'm more interested in a Bristep vote than any of the others. Although post 774 by Trendall was terribad and amounts to him having zero suspects as well as appeasing his wagoners by calling them town.

Still I think Thor is a better case.

EDIT: Some what sniped by Scott. Our vote on Thor isn't to do with his playstyle however. You might want to check that.

[sottyrulez]

Scott: We're voting for Thor for his heavy Baby Spice defence. Unless you want to claim Thor does this in all his games, this isn't a playstyle thing. I believe it was IS that spoke about Thor's tendency to instigate. See the last few posts in our ISO for details.

Baby, what do you think about Thor?

Nero claims Lowell's vote is scummy and opportunistic and votes him, actually making his

own

vote look bad because it lacks any real explanation. Buzz words aren't cool if you aren't going to detail just how they apply.

[sottyrulez]

Thor if anyone is missing the point it is you. It is one thing to call someone town but to out right defend a case that was put up against them on day one no less doesn't add up. Why wouldn't you let Baby defend herself first before cutting down AV's case? Surely her reactions would enable you to strengthen your read of her no?

[sottyrulez]

VP what's your Thor read then? I don't think we're uninvolved at all, not lately. We had a slow start for reasons that aren't game related. I get it will take awhile to wipe that away but we're working at it. If you think we're barking up the wrong tree with Thor then open up the discussion as to why at least.

Thor, when have we said you are terribad scum player? I don't like how you quickly twist to this strange selfmeta defense (this is the second time). I don't buy the fact that you don't need more of a read when the game has barely even started.

[sottyrulez]

We are voting you.

We are pushing you.

We have listed you in our scum reads.

How can you not see that we find you SCUMMY?

Why are you deflecting with language crap? We find you scummy, we don't think you're a bad player in fact the reverse is true as I stated in one of my early posts. You are just playing scummy in this game and we think you are scum.

[sottyrulez]

Jedi when I say we I mean "we as in Sottyrulez" We're a hydra, two players playing under one account, sorry for the confusion. I will try and talk in single person since we're not signing posts and are pretty much one mind in these games anyway. It's just a hydra habit I have gotten into.

Thor, I'm really lost at what you are getting at then. I have said that I think you're a good player who is just playing scummy. You are trying to force words into my mouth by saying I am suggesting you are a bad player as well. I will go back and re-read our exchange later on tonight after letting it settle a little, but right now I feel like you are just trying to spin me in a circle to confuse me, rather than taking the time to explain your choices better. I don't know why TownThor would ever want to do that.

[sottyrulez]

Jason: “Very interesting” Do agree with Baby that that is a scum slip?

Trendall: VP Baltar, Furcolow, Thor665, Debonair Danny DiPietro, jediknight, Hoppster ← These are all the people that voted you since you called your wagon town. Which ones are the opportunistic scum?

[sottyrulez]

Trendall, post 868 is all well and good but when no vote accompanies your reads, it means I'm not going to take you seriously. It just looks fake.

I'm not seeing the IS hypocrisy that Thor is claiming. He's going to have to spell that out.

[sottyrulez]

Snake, post 931 is pretty funny considering you have barely expressed any opinions of your own. Thoughts on Thor? Thoughts on Trendall? Thoughts on... Anyone that isn't Scott Brosius?

[sottyrulez]

I'm not denying Trendall needs pressure, but that doesn't mean Snake can coast by without giving his own opinions.

[sottyrulez]

I'm not even sure what the wagon on Scott was about. Was it lurking? I'd appreciate being pointed in the general direction of an explanation (ISO or post number works)

Trendall's worst post is still 774. He did give reads later but only after we pushed him and he didn't even vote at the time. It's like he doesn't believe his own scum hunting. I still prefer our Thor vote though, even more after his little melt down with IS. He really came out looking even worse after that exchange.

Snake has also jumped up in our reads. His ISO is extremely lacking in content. His Scott vote amounts to "pressure" and slight OMGUS. Then after that he just starts coasting. His read on Thor is pretty confusing. Stating he isn't a viable lynch despite him being the number two wagon is strange. He then waffles on Tendall before talking about switching his vote. I have no idea if he thinks he is scummy or what.

[sottyrulez]

It's him coming back from lurking to vote a lurker. It doesn't jive. There are so many better votes than Bella.

[sottyrulez]

Gobots what do you think of the current wagons? And yes, I still think you coming back to vote Bella is really weak regardless of your ISOs. You're avoiding the meat of the game right now.

[sottyrulez]

Bella, (AKA IzzyB) has a history of flaking out of games like this. I'm inclined to believe it is a null tell.

There is still something pinging me about Jason. Just his tone seems off, his posting did improve somewhat so he has been downgraded a little.

Snake is still ridiculous scummy and right now, is the only player I'd want to vote over Thor. No one else seems to have commented on him though which is pretty frustrating. His latest unvote is just more of the same content-less posting from that slot.

In fact, screw it.

Inverted atomic drop: Snake

I get deadline is coming but this guys needs serious pressure, if not an actual lynch. Case highlights:

Weak wagonjump
Crazy rolefishing
Question, question, question, question but no thought of his own until I ask.
And then his opinions are a bunch of nothing

Snake is scum

[sottyrulez]

Snake, sarcasm? Really? I don't buy it and from the reactions of other people they didn't either. You were caught rolefishing. As for your "opinions", you didn't give any outside Thor not being scum, which came with no justification and even looked like you didn't want to lynch him because he is a good player. Your post was as waffley as they come, I still have no idea if you think Tendall is scum. That is the third time that I have made that statement and you haven't bothered to clarify your thinking.

So Tendall, is he scum? Answering yes or no would be a good place to start.

@Jedi: furc is talking about Snake voting for Scott in a OMGUS fashion:

”Erratus Apathos points on Mr Brosius make sense

(Obv. the lame vote on me too)

, I like the idea of a pressure vote on Mr.Brosius currently”

[sottyrulez]

Who are your scum reads?

[sottyrulez]

Primate, is Snake a good wagon or irrelevant? You seem to make both statements in the above post.

We post everyday and will be here well in advance of any deadline situation, I see no problem highlighting a scummy player and pushing them. Restricting us like that is freaking ridiculous and I don't see the need. I take it Triple D, you think our case is crap? Right now I am much more convinced about Snakescum than I am about ThorScum or Tendrallscum. Why can't I follow it up?

[sottyrulez]

ISOing VP is a good place to start if you are strictly interested in the Trendall case.

[sottyrulez]

No, not yet. Tendall should claim as soon as he gets back to the thread. IS has posted intent to hammer.

[sottyrulez]

It shines a light on a probable scum. That's the key. As far as day one cases go, I really think the Snake case is pretty damn good. I'm not going to sit back and let him coast out the rest of the day when we have time to case him down. Since we made the case there has been a couple of people who have agreed with us on his scumminess (Scott, Primate I think) but chose not to vote him because he wasn't a viable or

approved

wagon. We debated not putting our vote out, but we wanted to see people make hard commitments in his direction. We got some of that.

Before that, we brought Snake up a couple of times and everyone ignored us, the vote has at least drawn some attention in his direction. I'd say that's a win.

[sottyrulez]

Standing dropkick: Snake

This guy is still scum.

I'm not sure what to make of Kise calling for a watcher/tracker claim right at the start of the day. His reaction and proceeding posts does look authentic and I personally can

buy

a Thor vig kill. Still it is all just speculation at this point. The town was pretty spilt on Thor, also Kise lurked a lot of day one, he would have also have been a likely vig target.

Preview edit: Vezo, Triple D is Shawn Daivari?

[sottyrulez]

So.... What Triple D? Vezo is lying? If so, shouldn't that make him scum and garner your vote?

Headbutt: Triple D

If your not Davari, who are you?

[sottyrulez]

SNAKE STILL ISN'T SCUM HUNTING

I just want that out there.

[sottyrulez]

Why are you still not name claiming Triple D? IS and VP are right, there is no logical reason for you to be stalling here.

[sottyrulez]

We never said you claimed Triple D is stalling VP, that's our opinion. We just agree with your assessment RE: claiming because he can't be killed over night. At the very least he should name claim here, why hasn't he? The longer he goes without doing at least that, the scummier he looks. I don't know how you can defend Triple D here even if the Vezo investigation isn't as clean as I first thought. First townie reaction would be to claim in this situation and vote Vezo, neither happened.

As for unvoting, are you kidding? Triple D is squirming around like crazy here. We aren't unvoting him

[sottyrulez]

Yeah, hydra of Sotty7 + Zachrulez

[sottyrulez]

ITT: Vezok doesn't know how to claim a result. With the information you had, you should have asked for a full name claim with the pertenent info, (Name, Height, Weight, Hometown.) and used that to check against the information you claimed to have gained.

I have no idea how Vezok leaps from Minneapolis to Davari, but I don't think he's scum because it would be an insanely stupid scum gambit to pull this early.

I still want DDD to name claim. I don't like the reaction to Vezok, and not name claiming now allows the pool of potential Minneapolis wrestlers to be narrowed down through night phases to make fake claiming more potent and less likely to backfire as the game goes on.

As far as full claim, that is unnecessary, we don't need to know anything else about DDD beyond his name claim. (I'm looking at you VP.)

If we get a name claim, I'm willing to pursue elsewhere for now.

Pre-edit: Really Jason?

[sottyrulez]

Crap? You're on our Snake case and want(ed?) Triple D to claim like us.

The reasoning behind wanting Triple D to claim is clear and a vote is a perfect pressure tool to get that.

[sottyrulez]

Busy weekend. Will catch up on Monday, possibly tomorrow depending on how things go.

[sottyrulez]

It pains me to say it, but I agree with Chess RE: The Triple D name claim. This post in particular. However, there is zero traction to a Triple D lynch today, or any real pressure his way. His refusal to name claim despite being UNK is suspect and we just don't like it.

Of the three current wagons I like IS the best. His hammer deflection post his just all kinds of scummy, pointing fingers at Chess while not taking any responsibility himself is probably the biggest scum tell out of the whole case.

Figure four leg lock: IS

IS, who is Triple D white knighting and why do you hate it so much?

(More coming, someone post pls)

[sottyrulez]

VP (1346)

We liked Kise's initial reaction to being “targeted” and we agree with his Triple D suspicions. Leaning town right now.

I think we have been clear about Triple D. Probscum.

Initially I thought Nero was tunnelling on IS, but he is making some good points on him today. So probtown. Would be nice to get some reads from him outside his IS case though.

Gman is lurky and a little reactionary. I have played with him several times and he isn't as obv town that I would expect. Looking though his ISO I do see some pandering for towncred and Vas' case is semi decent.

Vas has done nothing but tunnel hard on Gman and I don't remember him saying much of anything else. This is what was initially putting me off the GMan case. I want to see more from Vas than this lock on he has. The GMan case does have legs however.

This sudden shift over to ES looks terrible, VP's vote in particular stood out to me. VP has hit all the hot wagons today apart from Triple D. I don't like that at all.

[sottyrulez]

”So because I voted Internet stranger and Erratus you think that's scummy Sottyrulez? Especially after you call IS scummy?”

Try again, that was not what I said. You have been jumping from wagon to wagon to wagon. Care to actually explain your ES vote or you just want to deflect some more?

As for the GMan case, honestly we were ignoring Vas a little because he wasn't actually doing anything outside saying GMan is scum and not in a particularly compelling way. It wasn't until Snake flipped that we took the time to read both ISOs. Review showed us Vas is more likely town than GMan, but we're not excusing his activity.

The issue with Triple D is the reaction to Vezo and mostly a gut feeling. He's looked off all day as you can see in our ISO.

[sottyrulez]

You voted Snake for no stated reason, same with ES, Jedi Knight and IS. This is not protown VP play I have come to know and love. In fact you voted for Snake while soft attacking us, which at the time struck me as strange. We were the main reason Snake was thrust into the light and kamikaze'd outta here. I can at least understand your Kise vote even if I don't agree, the other votes are very opportunistic and lack any reasoning. Why is this?

Regarding DDD, it's mostly the way he reacted to Vezo's claim feeling wrong... like... unnatural. I'm not sure how many times we can say this.

More recently your adamant defense in DDD has kept us interested in him... but come to think of it, why

are

you going out of your way to defend DDD. You seem more concerned with our vote on him than he does.

I don't really get that.

[sottyrulez]

You're assuming we'd know how DDD would react, but I know if I was in that situation as town, my first reaction to someone claiming I was a wrestler I wasn't would be like wtf, and I would find the claim suspicious for obvious reasons.

Maybe DDD would react differently, but basically what happened was that he sat back and provided as little information as possible until it became more apparent that Vezo's info was hometown and not wrestler name, and then all of the sudden, "oh that's what happened."

FTR, his presumption of Vezo town twangs all kinds of wrong.

How you get obv town from that, I have no fucking clue.

Also, we're not asking you to "make huge cases" on these players, but the fact you failed to explain any of your votes outside the Kise one, is suspect. No matter how you try to spin it.

[sottyrulez]

VP, I currently have a town read on Vezo also based on reactions, like our Triple D read. He came to the thread and just info dumped with little real thought, I don't see scum gambiting in this fashion.

Nero I appreciate the SB and furc break down. Not agreeing with you though, Scott is a known lurker and furc is well... furc. What's your opinion of Vas v GMan?

KK, like Chess I want to lock Triple D in place with a name. His refusal to comply makes zero sense. The fact no one can come up with a compelling reason why he shouldn't just makes his reaction look worse and worse. His reaction + role cop result + UNK are all excellent reasons why he should name claim. But at this rate, it's feeling like we're beating a dead horse with all this. Triple D isn't going to claim his name and there isn't enough support for his lynch.

IS, I don't see Nero making excuses. You're stretching there. Your case on EA amounts to he is posting no content. What makes him worth a vote over Emp at this point?

[sottyrulez]

IS,

the fact that you turn to Erratus only after you start catching heat is extremely suspicious to me. People start to wagon you and then you throw out two names who are playing badly according to you. Statements like:

“Anyways, I went through and ISO'ed some people. Are you all trying to tell me that the play of Erratus and Empking is somehow better?”

And

“So why are Erratus and EMpking getting passes and im getting the whipping stick?”

Don't strike me as genuine scum hunting attempts, more like you scrambling to point the horde in a direction that isn't you.

Do you think Nero is scum, if so why did you not push a case on him? I'm starting to think this act with Erratus is a really poor attempt at distancing.

VP,

when someone comes out with role information on you that is false why would you think that person is town right away? You keep asking us basically the same question in different ways, are you expecting our answer to change?

[sottyrulez]

“hmm, is there a reason why YOU wont vote for Erratus Sotty? Whats stopping you?”

You're scummier, we have detailed why. This wagon on EA seems like a poor scramble organized by you that other players are jumping all over for whatever reason. EA didn't help himself with initial defense, but I'm not sold by this case at all. It's all too convenient.

I was under the impression you found Nero scummy but you said you don't. I will have to look back and see where I got that from. I felt that you were opting for the easier wagon when you plucked EA out of nowhere when you were sparring with Nero.

Triple D,

it's the lack of reaction feels wrong, probably the best way to say it. The explanation and the logic you have given are satisfactory even if we don't agree. We still don't like the refusal to name claim, but the pressure's not there, and you're not going to change your so there's little point continuing to push it for now. You no sold everything then refused to name claim when there was no good reason not too, considering your situation. These little things add up.

[sottyrulez]

First things first

Armbar: GMan

I'm seeing no scum hunting from you. You come back make a one liner post that is admonishing another player for playing the sheep. You have a vote on IS but have nothing to say about our discourse with him? The longer this day goes on with you trying to melt into the background the much more likely scum you become. Basically, I am very much in agreement with Vas 1479

IS,

we weren't finding EA scummy until his reactionary defense to you and then it was a small tweak. We have bigger scum reads right now and plus, like I have said a few times, the formation of the wagon on EA looks horrible. I'm not touching that with a ten foot barge pole.

VP

you are attacking Vas' case on GMan by saying other players are lurking and that doesn't move you. What is your opinion of IS and his turn towards EA?

[sottyrulez]

chess, where have you seen VP as dumb town?

[sottyrulez]

RE: GMan. We have meta on him in a similar vein as we have on Jason. GMan came to these boards though us and we have played with him several times off site. He is normally way more proactive than this when he is town. I'm not even getting the genuine sense that he is lost or overwhelmed, he is just lurking and avoiding major issues in the hopes of laying low. It jumps him to the top of my list easily.

Fair enough VP, I just saw you picking at Vas a little when IS really only turned to EA on lurking to start with. Not commenting on the later gives me pause.

[sottyrulez]

Err no. Yes we had an early Scum read on Jason, but we back off as his posting picked up.

[sottyrulez]

Oh god... this game

What error is that VP? Point me in the general direction of a post please.

[sottyrulez]

GMan, what's your opinion on Vas, VP and Triple D?

[sottyrulez]

As for people saying we're jumping on wagons that are only gaining steam, it's BS. We have spoken out about the EA wagon today for one example. Right now I'd like to lynch either GMan or IS. I'm not seeing the furc case, nor the Jedi case. Jedi in particular looks to be trying and furc is just furc. I'm not going to apologise for voting our top suspects, but to say were hopping around like that is just false. If you have a problem with our reasoning then point it out.

Vas: We have had a weak scum read on VP and have ever since he came out strongly defending Triple D. I didn't agree with his Kise case, it feels like a reach.

[sottyrulez]

Gut says Eddie as a vig doesn't make as much sense as Jeff Hardy as a vig. Really want to hear more detail on the flavor.

@VP 1668: Why protect Gman?

[sottyrulez]

I can not recall a single instance where Eddie ever hit anyone with a vehicle...

... ever.

His driving the low riders to the ring gimmick happened during years that my watching waned though. Anyone else recall an instance?

[sottyrulez]

@VP: I expect that a vig claim would have flavor that makes sense for the character claim that was made.

On the flips we have seen, D'Von is known for Tables and Jeff is known for Swantons, so it's easy to see there, but Eddie is not known for running people over.

MODwifom is possible, but the likelihood is

extremely low

IMO.

[sottyrulez]

I'm not playing outguess the mod, you are.

I understand the confirmable aspect of his role, and I want to lynch him anyway because I think he's probably scum. (Claiming a confirmable role is

exactly

the point when you're scum.)

[sottyrulez]

The claim is one aspect of why we find Gman more suspicious now. Your response to this is to question us on why we think flavor is closely followed. Given the flips we have and the fact that they make flavor sense, I would expect any power claim to make

some

kind of sense, and Gman's claim does not. While you think this is viable cause to back off his lynch, we do not.

His play leading up to the claim was suspect, and the claim itself is too. We know Gman pretty extensively, and the way he claimed prematurely is very unlike him. Usually I would be conversing to him laughing after a mafia game at how the lesser skilled players hit the panic button and claimed pre-maturely. This doesn't sit well.

Let's look at it from a far more basic level. From a percentage perspective, what's the likelihood of Gman being town to you? I have it somewhere between 1-5% Which is good enough in my mind to keep my vote right where it is.

[sottyrulez]

We agree with Jedi that VP is pushing a Jedi wagon to pull apart a possible GMan lynch. I don't see why there is a wagon here at this point. Just seems pretty aimless. The claim is confusing though, needing votes to access certain night actions isn't something I have ever seen before.

GMan, your whole "you were wrong about Jason so you're wrong about me" is complete BS. Jason started to play more like his townself, you have posted but nothing memorable. I don't remember any strong stance you have taken today. Then on top of that your claim is filled with holes. We think you're scum.

Don't like a Bri wagon at this point but would vote him over Jedi, but I really wish that more people were more willing to lynch GMan today.

We did get one set of the tag champ belts over night. I was under the assumption that KK chose us to be his partner, but I see that isn't so.

[sottyrulez]

Gut reaction to the emp wagon is that it is easy. He hasn't done much of anything but then, that's how he plays. What's the case on him?

[sottyrulez]

IS you should check your reading comp. We didn't say it was okay, we said it was easy. Do you have a case on emp?

[sottyrulez]

People we would like to lynch today

GMan
IS
VP

People we would wagon if needed

Emp
Bristep
Triple D

People we don't really want to lynch today

Jedi
EA
Kise
Vezo

Yeah, we're being stubborn a little at this point. Has all interest gone from a IS wagon? He just basically admitted to having no case on emp and just seems to be jumping from lurker to lurker in hopes that the wagon doesn't land on him. If GMan is out of the picture, why not IS?

VP we realize isn't going to to be lynched today, but he is a strong scum read for us at this point. With a GMan scum flip, VP will be looking even worse. In contrast, Triple D has been slightly downgraded as the day has gone on.

Bristep is our willing compromise lynch, maybe emp, but IS makes me weary of that lynch.

As it is, we feel strongly about GMan scum right now, and while being willing to support a more viable wagon in the interest of the deadline, we don't feel nearly as strongly about those wagons compared to Gman at this time.

[sottyrulez]

VP, I generally hate compromise wagoning, and wait as long as possible to change my vote at dl. You can refer to day 3 of Appenine mafia or skill's game on d1 (Mini 1042 I think)

Also in response to your Stars Aligned point since you brought it up, you were already pretty much confirmed scum by that point via night actions. (Which I bring up because you're apparently trying to argue that this is why you got caught and that it's scummy.)

[sottyrulez]

VP we pretty much admitted the support isn't there in our post 1819. The question about who would lynch him is pretty pointless. I don't really care who would or wouldn't lynch him at this point. He is a strong scum read of ours. Also, your "worry" of chain lynches only works if GMan does flip scum like we think. So.... What?

If there is zero interest in a IS, like a GMan lynch we will move to one of Emp or Bristep. Probably the latter.

IS, your talking in circles there. You turned on EA for his lurking initially, yes or no? I don't care that you haven't gone after Nero, but you haven't really attacked anyone who has had a strong position in the game. After backing away from Triple D like a scolded dog you have done nothing but go for easy lynches. What's next, a Gobots vote?

[sottyrulez]

VP you're twisting. There's no support for a Gman wagon largely because of you. As far as accusing you solely of engineering a Jedi wagon, I don't recall ever saying that. (If I'm wrong show it.)

In other news, DDD is right.

Backbreaker: Empking

I think he's most likely to get momentum toward a lynch out of our suspects and would prefer the lynch to JK. Will only support JK if it's the only way to get a lynch today.

[sottyrulez]

Well, I have my doubts about getting any new wagon going and chosing Emp over Bristep is simply a matter of that viability argument you're hitting us with, we think there's a better chance of Emp getting the needed votes vs Bristep, but if there's a clear preference for Bristep... then we'll go for it.

I really don't see why Jedi is getting run up TBH. The claim itself is probably a bigger issue for me than his play leading up to it.

Regardless, I'll reiterate and clarify our position. We strongly believe Gman to be scum, and we think there's a reason you're railing hard against the lynch. You can represent our position however you like but that's what we think.

[sottyrulez]

Dropkick: GMan

Yesterday is making me feel a lot better about IS and Triple D. I don't think a Triple D name claim is as important with emps flip, but I will need to go back and look at how all that went down again. Not a whole lot was achieved in our tag team topic overnight. I'll let KK start that off because he wanted to finish it in public. The long and short of it was that he didn't believed our reasons for voting emp.

[sottyrulez]

@Hoppster post 1895: I'm not getting your point RE: Jedi's claim. He claimed Foley one of the most schizophrenic wrestlers ever. Why is this looking like a fake claim?

As for KK's claims we're linked to emp it's all subjective. Why he passed us his belt we don't know, it's WIFOM and nothing we can defend against. I don't see why emp explicitly stating that he passed us the belt makes us more likely scum with him. If anything I think the opposite is true and that he went out of his way to say it to make a link with us. I'd like more explanation of that reasoning.

As for why we voted emp over Bristep it came down to a discussion between us both and agreeing Emp was much more likely to get a lynch than Bristep. We didn't want to lynch Jedi and our top suspects IS and GMan were pretty much off the table.

Not buying Gman's claim. He has to die today.

[sottyrulez]

16 votes?!

The biggest lynch threshold in the game was 14.

DOES NOT COMPUTE.

[sottyrulez]

Even assuming total votes, we've still only counted 14. (And we've done it multiple times just to check.)

If we want to test his claim, we should put a total of 16 votes on him and see if he can vig.

Also the arguments towards an emp link regarding us are just stupid. We swung an 11th hour lynch on empking near the deadline in a situation where we had other options, so to argue that is to say that we wanted to survive more than we wanted our hypothetical roleblocker to.

[sottyrulez]

Let's see that list, it's possible we made a mistake, but we did count 14 twice.

[sottyrulez]

Dropkick: Jedi
DDT: GMan

I can understand why Jedi would want to keep his target under wraps,but the downfall of keeping this to himself is if he dies overnight then we'll never know. Seeing as he is already out with his role, claiming the night action just makes sense to me. That way if we do ever get a second scum team flip we have some place to potentially start.

Jedi was it your responsibility to keep track of the votes on you so you knew what ability to use, or did the mod PM you? Also, when you were forced to claim yesterday, why not just ask for the extra vote so you could have vigged?

[sottyrulez]

Okay, so with you claiming you passed the belt at random Bristep, why wouldn't emp say the same thing? It was a potentially easy out for him and us, his hypobuddy. Instead, he came right out and laid our name right on the block. Why would scum do that to his supposed buddy? I'm not seeing it.

I can understand the argument that scum want to keep the neighbourhood in their group a little more. The potential for obtaining more info from unknowns over night is good, however I believe that it is harder to look town in a QT than it is in thread. Unless a scum is in a comfortable position in game and feels that can transition over to a QT I think it is more of a risk than a boon for scum to be forced to post in a QT. Even more so when you consider our overall position in the game at the time emp passed us the belt.

[sottyrulez]

AV, you're reaching. I'm not angry and haven't posted as such, maybe a little frustrated that people actually believe this is a valid link, but I'm biased. Plus I have argued it is WIFOM. You seem to be padding your vote there.

Also I never said scum interactions are random, I said if we were buddies with Emp why not claim he let the belt be randomized like Bristep did? He had the perfect excuse as well, he

had

just replaced in. Instead he came out and said out and out that he gave us the strap. He wanted to make a link with us.

VP: We were under some suspicion Triple D drew heat our way about trying to lynch Snake at the end of day one. We weren't very present in the thread early and I don't think we were anyone town reads. If scum wanted to keep the belt in their group I would think they would pass to a better “buddy” than us.

Also, if this belt link is so good why has no one asked who we passed our belt to?

[sottyrulez]

Let's recap this...

For people to think we're scum with emp they would have to believe that:

1. Emp passed us the titles because we're his scumbuddy. (An analysis that vastly overvalues the importance of a neighborhood power to a scumteam.)

2. That we in turn chose to bus our roleblocker on d2 with other lynch options that we could have easily put momentum behind.

3. That we chose to bus our roleblocker with number 1 in play.

It's one thing to be critical of the way we've played the game, but if you're suspecting us largely on the above, you really need to rethink things.

[sottyrulez]

@KK: Emp was more likely mainly because of rep and we made the right call. People were much more willing to comprise with his lynch. I doubt the same would have been said for Bristeps lynch.

We tried to pass our tag title to vezo. His death meant it was randomised and in Chesskid's possession.

Gobots, are you forgetting what happened to Kise?

[sottyrulez]

I don't think it was. From my count there is only 9 votes on GMan right now.

Baby, what's your read on GMan and Furc right now?

[sottyrulez]

How do you reconcile ISO 226 with 243 VP?

How can you say the result is worthwhile, and then say you're not shocked that you were actually the target? Those two posts together don't seem to jibe.

[sottyrulez]

Previous champs have already claimed. (Us and KK)

We have also revealed who we passed the belts to. (You and Nero)

[sottyrulez]

We tried to pass our belt to Vezo, he died and it got randomized to you Chess. KK picked Nero because he thinks he is town.

GMan is near enough confirmed scum at this point with how little he is doing and how much he is lurking while he is wagoned. Fighting over who gets the hammer is just prolonging the day needlessly and it's getting really freaking old.

Jedi should vig. Day should end.

[sottyrulez]

Dude, if you just voted now this day would be over so fast.

Preview Edit: We believed his claim.

[sottyrulez]

Chess' vote put it back at 9.

He's not in a position to hammer.

[sottyrulez]

Well with a game this size we thought there would be a protection out there and that even if Vezo didn't draw it scum might keep him alive... Because he's Vezo.

Other scum suspects right now:

IS, whose refusal to wagon Gman at any position other than the hammer with people uneasy about that is anti-town at best. We're getting frustrated that he continually stalls GMan's lynch.

Baby Spice, who is very much in the background and doing little in the ways of scum hunting. Kinda want to put Kise here too, but I did really like his early day reaction yesterday. Since then his play has been weak to say the least.

VP, who despite proclaiming himself obvtown has been acting really crabby since he was revealed as the RB target. Feels like busted scum. He has been suspect of ours for awhile now as well, so this is all just added evidence. A VP vigging is something we support.

[sottyrulez]

Jedi is voting for VP not us.

Hop, there wasn't a whole lot of discussion in the QT and what was said was mostly about our so called connection with emp. We didn't really discuss the titles and both of us just kinda stated who we were going to pass them to and that was it.

[sottyrulez]

We actually missed the deadline. We lied because we were too embarrassed to admit that. The belt was randomized to Chesskid.

[sottyrulez]

Yeah, we didn't want to admit that the belt went to Chesskid because we missed the deadline.

[sottyrulez]

What's your argument? That we deliberately passed the belt to Chesskid and are scum with him too?

You made it clear you didn't trust us in the QT and we asked you who you'd like us to pass the belts too, but THAT discussion was never really a priority, so we never got a chance to discuss it as a hydra.

We knew admitting that missing the deadline would make us look worse regardless of the fact that there's no real scum motivation to pull any kind of chicanery around a belt that everyone's keeping an eagle eye on, so we just decided to not let it become an issue.

[sottyrulez]

Given that we pretty much had from Sunday night onwards to make a decision from when the QT with KK pretty much came to a conclusion, I would say that we lacked time to make a clear choice yes.

Hard as it is to believe, we don't talk about mafia at home 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

[sottyrulez]

If you've been reading, that has already been explained.

[sottyrulez]

Morning.