Road to Wrestlemania: Game over - WWF wins - BANG BANG!

Primate · Post Post #280 (isolation #0) » Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:39 am

If I've missed something sorry. No power claimed, dubious about the idea outing even if useful and unkillable. Any role useful enough to be confirmable is useful enough that we don't want it repeatedly rb'd. Unk on a mason would be pretty awesome though. Seems an idea to go for a good player simply becuase it's nice to have them as unkillable, though we also want someone whose not going to be a maverick in terms of their choices. I'd also say that I don't want a player in there A-Tier because then we can't read the guy. That said I don't have experience with half of you so I couldn't say as to who that'd be.

I don't particularly want bella to have the title.
VOTE: Boston Crab: Bella
VOTE: Shining Wizard: Bella

The people I currently wouldn't mind in the WHC slot are Gobot or EA. I could also see DDP. Could live with Scott as well, but I don't think he'll be a contender so ignore me there.

Primate · Post Post #327 (isolation #1) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:16 pm

I actually really like Gobots and wanted to him be champion but he knocked me instead out so cheers buddy.

Primate · Post Post #329 (isolation #2) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:45 pm

Vp, what's your opinion generally on the tactic of keeping everyone at medium endurance levels? You moved against Scot and now Gobot's, people espousing that tactic.

Primate · Post Post #331 (isolation #3) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:09 pm

I liked the plan you put forward (though I think it's obviously slower becuase it reduces the amount of votes in circulation), but when we start to get down to a dozen people you need to start leveling the vote totals otherwise you're going to end with deals being made.

Further it gets towards the end, the more irrelevant any lists are going to be, you know this. Unless you'e banking on the laziness of townies, in which case fair enough, I don't think there's going to be any big conflict their either. If I was still in, I'd fight for it, but I wouldn't be surprised if most in there just kind of want to get on with the game, we'll see I suppose.

Primate · Post Post #333 (isolation #4) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:46 pm

I think it's too late to change the way this is working without it being more effort than it's worth to be honest. Choice made, roll with choice.

Primate · Post Post #336 (isolation #5) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:32 pm

We totally will. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

Primate · Post Post #339 (isolation #6) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:03 pm

Sounds pretty good, though I think 1/3 is a bit fragile and would prefer 3/5 for the minute. With the understanding that if you really don't want someone in the game get rid of them, don't mess about with equalising, of course.

Yeah, can you guys still in this phase of the game do what we say please. Cheers.

Primate · Post Post #341 (isolation #7) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:24 pm

Long as you enforce that as something people are fully aware of, sounds fine.

Primate · Post Post #437 (isolation #8) » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:44 am

Does anyone know whether any of the people left have a rep for being good town/awful scum or similar.

Primate · Post Post #440 (isolation #9) » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:55 am

Sounds good.

Support: Debonair Danny DiPietro

Primate · Post Post #442 (isolation #10) » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:28 am

Too long there Kise.

I have a mild eye infection at the minute meaning staring at computer screen isn't something I particularly want to be doing after I've been doing it all day and my priority is my newbie game.

I mean this games not hard but after the first couple of days it was around 13 pages and I just needed to get over that hump.

Also which game was Nearly Normal? Rings a bell but I can't find a reference to it anywhere.

I did consider giving my vote to KK but if I'm going to give it to someone who I feel is probably a good player, I feel more comfortable giving it to DDD atm just cause I prefer his posting so far.

Primate · Post Post #449 (isolation #11) » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:03 pm

As Primate sits watching at ringside, he is inadvertantly caught by a yakuza kick as the brawl between Furcolow and SnakePlissken moves away from the announce table!

I thought I wouldn't be prodded tbh. I didn't post before that because generally with me if it's a choice between lurking or posting without understanding the game state fully I'll lurk.

Primate · Post Post #464 (isolation #12) » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:44 pm

My lord DDD

Vibe I got from thors #421 with the Evil bastiche bit is that it was intentional and he was moving his vote off because he saw a benefit to moving his vote. Moves that are essentially mistakes aren't something I'd really call evil and make a post taking the role of someone self satisfied about it is odd, but hey. I think his reason for moving his vote back is fair enough.

@Gobos: What makes you think Baby Spice isn't paying attention?

loophole? Player1 supports player2, player2 moves, player1 unsupports player2, supports player3, player3 moves.
Problably not but fun headache for the mod I imagine.

Primate · Post Post #548 (isolation #13) » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:43 am

Didn't like Kise removing himself from the game when he expressed a preference for a KK champion. Refusing responsibility like that is poor show.

I personally enjoy Chesskids playstyle and think he's being consistent with what I've seen from him before here.

Baby Spice I don't particularly have an objection to.

Cutter: Trendall

Primate · Post Post #653 (isolation #14) » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:08 am

@VP: I don't see anything particuarly notable yet except the fact he is nowhere near as active as in the last game I played with him in which he was town.

@Sotty: Trendall vote was because I looked through all the people who I considered non-notable and saw the least to like in him.

Chesskids early attitude that town are going to be attacked makes complete sense and don't like EA, BS for moving against that. BS's in particular is pretty dumb. Hoppster is exempt because I did a double take when I read that post as well. The attitude of wanting someone think town to not get UNKbecause you don't like their playstyle is pretty surreal though unless you put forward an alternative candidate. Hoppsters read is the same one I would have had as well, that Anti-town = Scummy.

Wanna know why EA thinks that NCs position that the scum is hanging back and not voting is inaccurate.

Kind of obvious is BS is newer. Don't know what VI is.

NC was right to pick IS up on that, I thought it was an odd move. ISs reaction is awesome.

Primate · Post Post #657 (isolation #15) » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:09 am

IS hadn't done anything scummy, and is historically one of the best players we've ever had on this site. Trendhall hadn't done anything at all, really and had a post that purposefully avoided taking a stance. Was tempted by Bella, but she was VLA.

I still think only remotely scummy thing he's done so far is that move on nero instead of someone else after he agreed with him, but nothing else he's done has been particularly notable for IS.

Also VI is a retarded term if it tries to ostracize people with different playstyles. There are good players and there are bad players, good players catch scum, bad players fail to catch scum, how they do so is irrelevant, and grouping all the people who don't play normally into a single group of VI is just going to legitimize the bad ones who are in there, surely? Just call them bad players or newbs if you really have to. But anyway.

Primate · Post Post #773 (isolation #16) » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:17 am

whoa do I need to post more.

@Gobots: If a player is good I will genuinely give them a bit more leeway on things like lurking and idiosyncratic stuff but expect more from them scumhunting wise. The main reason I went for Trendall over IS wasn't because I was enamoured with IS, though it's because I didn't see anything scummy there.

@EA: I was assuming that you voting someone for saying something means you disagree with that thing? Why did you vote then?

My feel is BS is probably town. Thor could go either way. Hoppster I'm on the fence about. I think he's scummy outside of his interactions with chess but within that his position is completely plausible, so it's weird he's being picked up for that, imho.

Pressure on Trendall's not a bad thing at all.

Primate · Post Post #776 (isolation #17) » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:54 am

Cringin at Trendallposts ITT.

Primate · Post Post #779 (isolation #18) » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:29 pm

chesskid3 wrote:why you not votin then?

I am.

Primate · Post Post #909 (isolation #19) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:49 pm

I am going to be an unethical monster and make a prod dodge, with an attempt to regain the moral high ground this evening.

Primate · Post Post #963 (isolation #20) » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:04 am

Caught up.

I think it's stunning that anyone is anything other than on the Trendallwagon.

VP's right that we shouldn't be on anything other than those three wagons he suggested, though I'd also want to add Hoppster. There was support there and I bet it'd come back if Trendall claimed hard, so I don't see that being an issue. Maybe I'm being biased because I don't think Scot and Thor are especially scummy. Scot makes sense and I get he's not been active but other than that there's nothing there. I'd also argue against a Thor lynch because I don't think he's particularly scummy and it's not like there's any shortage of stuff to read on him.

To my mind though this is just claim and switch leeway and I think it's a pretty bad idea to get him as close as he is now without a claim by him. So we need that now.

Primate · Post Post #990 (isolation #21) » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:45 pm

Bella needs to be vigged off the board or replaced. It's a vote on a stick.

Primate · Post Post #1067 (isolation #22) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:52 pm

Jediknight seems like he's playing in catchup mode. His reads seem negligent but I don't have a read beyond that. Gman I like quite a bit so far and he's making sense. Gobots is mostly speaking rubbish but I don't get the impression it's insincere, just poorly thought out. Again, not really indiciative of alignment. IS is being useless, wonder if that's a side effect of him not having the rep anymore but playstyle not changing. I need to do some meta on JasonT because I really don't think he was playing like this in lost.

Snake's completely uninspiring and I'd have no objections to a wagon there. DDD and VP brought up Sotty like he's a good player but I've seen none of that this game. Snakes irrelevant at this point and votes on him are wasted and surely Sotty knows this so it just comes across as farting about.

Bristep is scummy. Trendall still needs to claim. Thor and Gobots miniwagons need to go away.

Primate · Post Post #1286 (isolation #23) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:54 am

Vezok 's move from my point of view looked uneecssary but I don't know the flavour so maybe I don't get it. I was under the impression most wrestlers are painted at villains at some point to the extent you couldn't really trust flavour in the way he was doing. Outing himself like that was a bit stupid because he really could have used that to catch scum in a lie and its much less useful now that scum know a role like that exists. It comes across as a bit of a farce what with him checking it like that. Based on the fact I don't know wrestling flavour that movement against DDD looks surreally scummy but I can't really comment on that without knowing the flavour.

I think giving over information like that is generally town because for scum to legitimately have that info (which Vezok would need for it not to be a bizarre move) it'd be a gambit that I don't really see scum making for such a frivolous reason.

I have more to say but don't post just so I can say it.

Primate · Post Post #1317 (isolation #24) » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:26 am

@KK: Yeah, not normally particularly active poster but conciseness over my normal infrequent but lots evidently isn't working like I'd want.

What I was saying re: flavour was, take game context of LOTR, Sauron's scum, worth revealing, Shawn Daivari that kind of parallel? Game flavour depends.

Attitude on Vezok was wrong there though because misread Vezok being unsure about SD's had negative connotations. It's a weird read though because clearly Vezok suspected SD to be a scum role though, as he required very little convincing to get on that vote, and you would imagine that considering he did a bit of research he would have carried that through enough to get an overview as to who the guy is enough to decide whether the information is worth revealing or not.

Didn't know vezok wasn't very good, KK, makes sense that he's a bit of a newb, can't see a good play there either side (except obscure scum one). You misread that I think Vezok is scummy, didn't, still don't. Think actions indicate town.

@Chesskid: Flavour cop, and the scene with kise means that flavour is important this game, bearing that in mind, roles that say, can only kill male wrestlers, what is the advantage?

Primate · Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:24 am

SD is Shawn Daivari, I was struggling to get under wordcount.

A mass nameclaim or any kind of nameclaim based on the assumption that Vezok will still be alive/unroleblocked to give us results on people is a terrible idea cause we give up reams of info for such unreliable benefits, especially now it's known what he restriction is and scum have leeway in areas they can claim from.

I think IS is probably town, My assumption with IS is that he'd use fairly traditional troll techniques and play in a way that was easy to attack and yet obviously intentional so anyone who was aware of it. Some parts of his play reflect this and have the right amount of salt you can take with them. I think his actions against Nero are part of this and they aren't actually meant to be taken completely seriously (that is to say I'd hope he is somewhat suspicous but is filling with massive hyperbole).

I thought IS's position on the Thorwagon was scummy at the time but with Trendall looking town it does look better.

Primate · Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:53 am

@NeroCain: Pretty sure when Scot says the his two reads are dead he means Trendall and Snake.

Main thing against scot is the lurking. I don't like that. Neither the fact In #1319 It feels like he's abstracting himself away from the trendall wagon he was on, though that may be conciseness on his part.

It helps scumhunting because if you know thats what hes doing you can plan around it. IS is smart and I'm not going to use a policy lynch in a situation where both he knows he's being hyperbolic and I do as well. It's not going to teach anyone anything because he's doing it intentionally. It's also not even like it gives him free reign like a lurker does, you just need to read what he's doing in that context. People taking that playstyle literally over realistically is the sole reason the playstyle exists because throwing around phrases like policy lynch in contexts like this is scummy as hell. It doesn't give him free ticket, but there is an expectation that any aware town player will meet him halfway.

Primate · Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:06 pm

Kise is literally a gibbering hobo.

Primate · Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:52 pm

It's not that I disagree or anything NC, I genuinely don't understand what your argument is re:SB. He treated, Thor, BS, CK, the same.

And I didn't respond to cover for him, I responded because it seemed like you had misinterpreted something. I normally like to leave arguments for the defender to deal with.

As for how IS helps, he helps the same way the rest of us do, as a scumhunter and a argument maker, he doesn't have IC voodoo that I can use to justify him to you obviously, he's just a player in this game, he's just playing the game a bit differently. You're misreading me if you think I use this as a panacea for his actions or that I find the guy town, it's just not as obvious as you seem to think it is. There are two guys in the history of the site really famous for this playstyle, and the other has "not helpful" as his custom title, so you evidently aren't the first person to think this way, just rise above it.

Primate · Post Post #1347 (isolation #29) » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:18 pm

This is what I'm saying, I was under the impresson both his scum reads where Trendall/Snake, the two people he called scummy, and that statment wasn't referring at all to Thor/BS/CK, the people he said weren't scummy and then never mentioned again, so I don't get how you're drawing that connection. See what he says though.

And no, I never said I think IS is scummy and I honestly reckon he's probably town. Only think he's done I think is scummy is the D1 hammer U-turn.

Primate · Post Post #1354 (isolation #30) » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:17 pm

@NC: I do think it's lacking and a bit poor, yeah, I'd expect more and think that riding opinions like that is scummy, especially when the two opinions mentioned happened to be completely unoriginal, the two biggest wagons of the game so far.

And yeah, people do scummy things and town things, you don't let single things influence your entire view of a person. I don't think IS is generally scummy, I think one thing he did is. As for giving him a pass based on playing troll I get your point and I really don't think I'm doing that. That's a thought that's a the front of my mind when reading him, but I really don't think I am.

@VP: Pick someone else and I'll join you. I prefer Kise as town to you.

Primate · Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:16 pm

Sorry for not posting since the weekend, I'll post tonight at about half five when I get off work.

Primate · Post Post #1589 (isolation #32) » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:26 pm

@Scot: You’re entirely right and I apologise, I missed that. I don’t know why Nero Cain likes that as a point. I think your position is pretty weak regardless because you haven’t commented on many people but yeah, I was wrong to criticise you for that with regards to Snake.

@VPBaltar: I think that it’s unlikely that Kise as scum would share that I info in the way he did, like it was a relevation. I just don’t think scum go spurting info like that.

@KK: I know that Vezok didn’t know DDD was Shawn Daivari, he assumed though and aside from quality of play assumed by reader I don’t really think there’s a difference.

@Gobots: Roles that can target males was a reference to the fact that you don’t give away flavour info pointlessly because you have no idea what other roles may influence it, general rules, nothing specific to this game.

You'll have to wait until tomorrow to get a vote out of me. I don't feel particularly comfortable about any of the wagons and want to try and update my reads of everyone. If I was to vote for anyone right now it'd probably be Bristep.

Primate · Post Post #1662 (isolation #33) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:21 pm

@Bristep: You can think that if you want. The reason I said I'd vote for you was because you were the only person with any votes on them already that I was previously suspicious of, and that's a suspicion I noted on D1.

Yeah so GMan isn't scum. Think EA's statement about non GMan/IS votes being wasted is quite wrong, we have multiple days left and it's an active game.

Superkick: Bristep

Primate · Post Post #1780 (isolation #34) » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:59 pm

My preference on who to put my vote on for deadline is empking by a mile. Empkings a legitimate scum suspicion but I don't see JK much.

Primate · Post Post #1789 (isolation #35) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:40 am

@NC: I meant out of Empking/Jediknight, which seem the plausible wagons right now. I'd love a bristep lynch but I don't see it happening. Bristep has a few votes but it's losing speed and even if I did make a good case against him it'd do nothing but stall the other wagons at this point.

@VPB: Nope, it isn't deadline. I'm GMT and deadlines tomorrow morning, I have tonight to properly decide which one I'm going for. I know I haven't had much time for this game but I'll have my vote on one or the other by tonight. It's a fair point that there's absolutely no reason for me not to have a vote down though, even if I do move it later.

Lou Thesz press: Empking

Primate · Post Post #1865 (isolation #36) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:26 am

@DDD: Last game I was scum in, Fringe mafia, a scum member had a one-shot kill in addition to their normal kill. Before that I have seen it before but a quite a while ago. It does happen but I think it's so unlikely that I'd discount unless there's a very good reason not to. If you mean just rolename, then the I've never seen it either, but it's unlikely he'd actually be called a vig, just have the kill.

Looking at Emps posting. He attacked IS, DDD strongly, DDD especially. He attacked Sottyrulez a bit.

He didn't know SottyRulez was a hydra, which is interesting. If he was doing any bussing it was there though, because he didn't move on on that at all despite commenting on a few times. IS and DDD really don't look like bussing.

Possibly his support of the Jediknight wagon over the Bristep one is defense of Bristep but honestly that looks more like he's trying to save himself by supporting the stronger of the two wagons that were working against his own. It could be bussing because why not if you're in that position but I don't think it looks like it.

Primate · Post Post #1999 (isolation #37) » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:06 am

Who the hell is stupid enough to false claim vig early? It gets him nightkilled or if he's unk, the vig knows he's scum and at some point he's going to get lynched for lying there.

I find it infinitely more plausible that he was just roleblocked. It's not like scum blocking a vig is a dumb move for them or anything. Aside from that, in a 27 player game, a day vig, and two limited vigs is entirely plausible, especially in a game where the entire theme is based on taking out other players.

Am I missing something or are we just kneejerking becuase he was unable to confirm himself last night?

Primate · Post Post #2005 (isolation #38) » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:55 am

Want an honest answer here DDD. If you were a full unlimited vig, would you treat Gmans claim favourably?

How much he is limited is irrelevant. It's how much he appears to be limited to the guy who will shoot him. Vigs counterclaim far more lethally than other classes.

Primate · Post Post #2030 (isolation #39) » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:57 am

@DDD: My point is that any anti-town false claiming vig considers the chance of someone counterclaiming. First realisation he would come to is yours, that a vig would not like his claim. So, he has to be assuming that, as vig knows he's lying, he'is going to be nightkilled the following night. So, maybe unightkillable, fair enough. But, he knows he's going to get shot at and not die, knows that because of the fact wakes up the next day, the vig is going to know that he got protected/is unk, so the vig is going to assume that he is scum. And he knows that even if the vig dies at some point, he's still probably going to be lynched because it's unlikely there's a full vig in a game with a one-shot.

Maybe I'm being charitable to GMan, but if I was scum thinking about claiming vig this early in the game, these are instant thoughts upon my thought of claiming vig. Vig is such an obviously shit scum claim no scum would ever do it unless they honestly thought there were no other vigs in the game, and I don't think it's a remotely plausible assumption this early.

Primate · Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:28 am

Vig is specific and different because the guy can kill you by himself, and doesn't need to counterclaim, he just need to submit a nightaction specifying you as a target

He's not going to draw a counterclaim, the vig is going to shoot him because vigs can kill people by themselves without revealing.

It's entirely possible there is no other vig. But I think it's bullshit to assume that GMan would think that at a time when we have 20+ people unclaimed and him not being shot at night fundamentally rests on that.

Primate · Post Post #2097 (isolation #41) » Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:49 pm

Call me cynical but as someone who speaks fluent lurker expect it to be hard to get stuff out of Lowell, SB, NC in a situation like this because they'll be afraid of being wrong and they know their input isn't really relevant so they'll be reticent about giving reads regardless of alignment.

@DDD: It's entirely possible that he made a mistake. I just think it's a little weak for the mistake to be ignoring the existence of a counterclaiming role when that's normally at the forefront of the guys mind. The unkillable is possible and probably the more likely scenario, but it means that once
he is vigged and left alive the vig knows that he is likely scum, and even if the vig never lives to impart this info, once a vig turns up, we're going to take another look at Gman. Most of the weight there though is generic point that scum don't claim one of the big 3 power roles in the early game, limited or not.

I'm not saying guys claim is utterly rocksolid, and I think it helps I read him town.

I suggest we don't aim Jediknight at all.

@Furc: Oh shut up.

Primate · Post Post #2221 (isolation #42) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:21 am

Hahahahahahaha.

Every GMan lynch has a silver lining.

@VP: He gets notified if the timer runs out, not notified if recipient killed.

Primate · Post Post #2252 (isolation #43) » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:50 am

@Bristep: I was wrong about Gman and honestly thought it was a town mislynch. I felt like an absolute moron after he was lynched becuase I was pretty much the only person defending him. I still can't really figure out a way that he expected that claim to work for him, and I didn't really see any of the scum in his behaviour either, but hey.

He was scum, so it's the good type of being wrong, but still I appreciate it doesn't make me look any better. I can't really disagree with the fact I defended him. I don't think it was particularly soft support, I was fairly enthusiastic about it imo.

Primate · Post Post #2255 (isolation #44) » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:02 am

I have a tag belt. I'll let the other guy identify himself, if he wants to.

Primate · Post Post #2298 (isolation #45) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:47 pm

I'll post in the next few hours, posting this to say I'm here so I don't get prodded in the meantime.

Primate · Post Post #2353 (isolation #46) » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:55 am

EA's claim seems rocksolid.

Don't really have an issue with AV's claim assuming an undertaker turns up at some point. Circumstances are bad but that makes sense and nero was the kind of person I'd target with an ability like that and coincidences happen.

I'll leave NK speculation up to people who know more than me but I'm going to assume it's the MDC nightkill and I didn't get the move against chess. Driving a wagon against someone who claimed in response to someone speculating his role was scum is lazy, especially when he was reiterating a D1 claim.Partially because I think chess has been pretty good this game. Less active than normal but not notably so. Maybe that's just because in the games I've played with him previously he hasn't lived this long.

Furcs 1-shot unk claim is poor. I'd expect to see resilient type roles in this game, which is an upvote, but it depends what kises role actually is.

As past #1 supporter of the Roleblocked GMan theory it doesn't hold up as well now the guys scum. He may have been roleblocked, but if it was, it had to have been a coincidence.