There Will Be Bloodshed (Game Over)

[Zdenek]

zdenek claim now please

Ok. I'm VT.

[Zdenek]

Would you like me to finish reading before I do that or just pick one?
If you want me to just pick one, could you tell me who I have to choose between?

[Zdenek]

Sorry I see the list is above.

[Zdenek]

After a quick look at each of them, I saw that nhammen has already claimed VT, so ConfidAnon is last and should claim next.

[Zdenek]

Hi,

Fugi, yes we played together in a game diddin modded, the one he referenced earlier with Umbrage (who I replaced) in it.

Anyway, I've read the thread, but if there are no objections, I'll wait to share my thoughts until after Confid's replacement posts.

[Zdenek]

Here are my reads:

The people who are not confirmed town are

IceC
Pine
C-Worl
Hiriaki
Empking
Silver Bullet
Nhammen
Hopper

I am inclinded to believe Wraith's claim, since I would expect there to be a protective role in the game. THB is town. I am willing to accept Mastin's argument that Pine is town, and I also have a town read on him from his day two argument with Parama. Similarly, I think that the stubbornness that C-Worl showed in his argument with Calcifer over them explaining their reads was towny. So I'm taking him off the list. Leaving us with

IceC
Hiriaki
Empking
Silver Bullet
Hopster
Nhammen

Here are my opinions of these players:

IceyC

I am not inclined to believe that he is town because of his role as neighborizer, but I think that there is little scummy coming from that slot. I'm not going to pretend that I have a great read of it, but I don't think it would be a good lynch for today.

Hiriaki: I think Hiriaki is scum. Looking at DLG's play, I think that his second post of the game was too aggressive for page two. As far as Hiriaki goes:

If you admit that this is what happened in one game, where I'm assuming you flipped town, then why would you want another supposed town lynch now?

Asking obviously pointless questions.

Also his case on Calcifer was laughable.

Empking:

His play in this game is very uncharacteristic of what I have seen from him in the past when he's been town, so meta tells me that he is scum.

Silverbullet: His posts seem pretty open and aggressive, so I think he's probably town, and at least isn't a good lynch today.

Hoppster: He's scum because of this reaction to Antihero's claim:

Regarding Antihero's 'cop/hider' claim, eh... don't really buy it.

He doesn't believe the claim, but he's wishy-washy about this belief, and it reads like he knows it might be true.

As far as ConfidAnon goes, he barely posted, but what he did post was padded with IIoA. He also voted for Empking without providing any reasoning. Since I think Empking is scum, I think this is an example of one scum buddy voting for another knowing that if a lynch occurs his vote won't be questioned.

Nhammen: He's scummy mostly because of the timing of his posts. However, his vote is in a good place right now.
He tries to invent contradictions:

There was no null section, so you got a free pass based on benefit of the doubt.

Would you like to explain this apparent contradiction? You have reasons for everyone, but I was a null read? Something is missing.

I will vote Empking when we are ready for the day to end.

My pick for a scum team is Empking, nhammen, Hidiaki and hoppster.

[Zdenek]

Hoppsters 1582 is a lazy, reactive scum post.

Wraith, your case on me is based on my predecessors lurking and being wrong about their reads, which is is pretty bad at this point.

[Zdenek]

Zdenek, you haven't even bothered to vote one of your 'scumteam' yet.

Who do you think I am wrong about?

[Zdenek]

Vote Empking

L-1

[Zdenek]

I think we should lynch IceyCupcake. Scum neighborizer is completely within rules of a normal game. Anyway, with two votes on me, town's loss is inevitable at this point.

Hoppster's "scum-slip" is stupid, but he's pushing garbage when he doesn't need to, so he might actually be town.

I still think Hiriaki and nhammen are scum, and PoE makes silverbullet scum ,but if we get that far, we'll have to start thinking about all others again.

[Zdenek]

Zded, what's POE? Also expand on your reads in 1640... NOW

POE is process of elimination. But to be honest, if we got to the point where that argument actually applies, meaning that we don't lynch me today and hit scum three times in a row, then I think I'll have to revisit the possibilities the C-W is scum and THB is a godfather.

Here are the explanations for my reads/:

First GreyICE/ICeyC:

In reading through, I had an early scum read on GreyICE because of his vote to no lynch because taking a stance like that is avoids confrontation, and it allows his vote to be somewhere that is unproductive for awhile. This is not a particularly important point, but I feel that I should include everything. Then there was his whining about walls of text, and his use of someone else's meta, MoI's, to argue against Pine, which is a particularly poor way to argue.

Then he says that he says, to paraphrase, climbing the pine walls, and that the content is bugging the shit out of him,

P.P.S. If that was a short wall from Pine, I say we report him to the moderator, Mastin is running two accounts. My god man, take a minute or two and edit your post down into something that makes sense. I've been diagnosed with ADD, that doesn't mean you have to inflict rambling wallposts on the world

I am not Mastin. Correlation does not imply causality.

Anyway, I'll just Vote: No Lynch because I've done it a few times and Mastin is metaing me, so he should see that I'm town when I do it

As much as I can understand fucking with someone's head, a No Lynch vote is just...I'm not sure there's a good word for it. Given the explanation, I'm inclined to not think it as scummy as I would otherwise, but...No Lynch isn't a good thing for Town.

Pine:

1) Did you really think I thought you were Mastin?
2) Did you really think I became less scummy because my reason entire reason for voting "No Lynch" was I do that when I'm town?

The first question is stupid because Pine's argument made sense: using other people's meta to judge someone else doesn't work. The answer to either question hardly reflects on Pine's alignment. The point is that he's not scum hunting.

Also, Winger, if you feel the need to copy and paste 15 quotes and then write a one sentence reply to each... don't.

I think you're town so I'm just going to ignore your walls.

More complaining about play styles.

My first point was, as Confid put better than I did, "riding the common wave of thought" (the only thing that separated Jerbs from the rest of the antiPine rhetoric was an actual vote). Couple that with a lack of commentary on ANYTHING or ANYBODY else.
And, yes, my second point was meta (which there's nothing wrong with).

This = bad use of meta.

Good use of meta = your previous games show that you're an aggressive player who gets angry when their questions aren't answered and states clear opinions. This game you are wishy-washy and don't mind people ignoring you. Don't want any attention?

Bad use of meta = "I don't remember player X doing Y when he was town!" and/or "Player X did Y as scum in this game!"

This equals irony.

@Pine: once scum is caught, the day just kind of stagnates. Beyond a certain length, the chances of lynching scum actually decrease, because the scum can lurk their way into townies getting dragged into stupid debates.

Pro-town banter that doesn't contribute to scum hunting. There are also numerous examples of fluff in his posts, that I won't bother copying here.

nhamman looks suspiciously like scum if romanus is scum.

This makes me think that he is buddies with nhammen. It's a perfect example of distancing because he uses an argument against him, that vanishes upon my flip.
Just a little while later he says:

nhammen is also the perfect person to be scum. Votes on either are :goodposting:

He has said very little about nhammen up to this point, so the attack reads like one scum buddy attacking another, knowing that if it ends in a lynch, his reasons won't be questioned.

One thing that gives me pause about IceyC being scum was the business around THB being scum because of the apparent role-block. However, it is not impossible that he was just taking advantage of a mod error at that time.

Nhammen:

The main reason I think that nhammen is scum is because of the timing of his posts. They seem to be well placed for him to avoid being involved in major decisions.

Personally, I'm a little leery of the way you said that those reads were insane, because if they are insane, why post them?

Asking pointless rhetorical questions.

Good point about worrying about meta. Except scum don't worry quite so openly. They are subtle about it. And he seemed to be more trying to mess with Calcifer's head than trying to be consistent with town play. So I personally don't believe that this was a scumtell. So actually, that's kind of a bad point.

This phrase seems incredibly forced. Good point, but not scummy because blah blah blah, so I don't believe it is a scum-tell, so kind of a bad point. It simply doesn't read as an honest opinion.

Hey, you are right! Didn't even see that, but now that you mention it, that was a particularly hypocritical vote. Any explanation Cookie?

Buddying with Calcifer.

At this point, I honestly haven't been keeping track of the sizes of bandwagons (too much to keep up with). But then again...
Could you explain why you noticed the sizes of the wagons like this?

Questions that are obv. not for scum hunting.

Ice is almost certainly not scum for the simple reason that I highly doubt a scum neighborizer would have chosen Calcifer N1. It would be too risky.

Pure wifom.

He also posts a fairly significant amount of fluff, which I won't bother showing here.

Confid/Hoppster:

Confid, generally said very little, but there was this issue of changing opinions regarding Friend:

Bad posting. But sounds just as likely to come from frustrated Town as it does frustrated Mafia.

I'm skeptical of the Friend wagon. His frustration, as Diddin mentioned before me, feels Town.

In one it feels like he is keeping his option to get on the Friend wagon open, but by the second, which was just after nhammen voted friend, he backs away from that.

Hoppster reads like lazy scum, but I am made a bit uneasy about him because he is unnecessarily pushing garbage, so unless my reads are pretty accurate, I don't think he'd be bothering with that unless he was scum.

Hiraki:

Before reading the thread, he says

Friend looks pretty darn bad.

which is poisoning the well.

If you admit that this is what happened in one game, where I'm assuming you flipped town, then why would you want another supposed town lynch now?

Asking foolish questions.

DLG is obv. town, but he was a pitiful player.

DLG's play, after a brief look, wasn't all that great. I'm glad he only made 3 posts so things couldn't have gotten worse.

This doesn't read like he was being honest.

I have a post written up from the Night on Word, but I can't access it now. It'll show Calicifer scum.

This did not come from town who was worried about either himself or Calcifer dying at night.

AGar? Lolz. Idiots are PR hunting.

Can't be Calcifer, he'd be better at it than that.

Nice catch. I need to re-read now.

That was enough for him to abandon his Calcifer case.

Btw., yes. I have concluded Calctown. I'm about to rape this shit.

Calicifer was Town?

Doesn't keep his reads straight.

After doing this, I am more or less convinced that nhammen and hiraki are scum, and I would support their lynches the most today. After that, confid would be my next choice because after reflecting on things, I think my reads are right, which would give him a reason to push the garbage scum slip argument against me. As far as the fourth goes, I am definitely suspicious of IceyC, but I definitely haven't spent enough time trying to determine if THB is the godfather.

[Zdenek]

Might actually be town, is not town.

[Zdenek]

-Zden
You are using the same reason for 2 different arguments... even in your "iso" of him you state

"Well I don't expect hoppster scum to push such a garbage scum slip on me so maybe he's town from it"

But now your stating

"Hrmmm upon further inspection... hoppster is scum... so logically that gives him a reason why he would push such garbage on me... so he must be scum"

First of all, your misrepresenting my argument. Secondly, yesterday, I would have thought he'd be a good lynch for today, and now he's moved down the list.

This is purely opinion. Not to mention, the first quote was in reference to Parama. I actually hadn't looked at DLG that much at this time because I knew he was town, because I am town.

Everything in this game is opinion.

You say DLG in both posts, so I don't know where you are getting the Parama business from.

[Zdenek]

Zdenek, whose scum on your wagon?

Nhammen and possibly hoppster.

Also, what's your read on Hiraki and THB again?

I think Hiraki is scum, and I'm treating THB as town for the time being. If we manage to lynch a few scum, I'll revisit THB.

Parama comes in because that's where he asked me about DLG. I don't get how you don't see that.

This is completely irrelevant.

[Zdenek]

IceyC, I'm not ruling it out.

Fugi, he may as well be. I assume he only didn't vote was because it was early in LYLO.

[Zdenek]

Uh so basically

You think that there's at least two scum who are really busy not voting for you in LyLo

Even though they posted.

And you're town?

You're right. It's a safe bet that you and Hiraki aren't scum together.

[Zdenek]

LOL at Mastin.

[Zdenek]

Zdenek, did you seriously believe town was on your wagon in LyLo, and not attempt to do anything about it? You weren't begging them to get the vote up? Anything? You weren't even trying to win?

WHAT THE FUCK?

I've NEVER seen town do that in LyLo.

What do you mean get the vote up?

[Zdenek]

Zdenek, did you seriously believe town was on your wagon in LyLo, and not attempt to do anything about it? You weren't begging them to get the vote up? Anything? You weren't even trying to win?

WHAT THE FUCK?

I've NEVER seen town do that in LyLo.

Of course I was trying to win. I gave my reads I made my cases. Look at the responses I got from now confirmed town. No one was listening.

What would you have expected?

[Zdenek]

YOU TO FUCKING TELL EVERYONE ON YOUR WAGON YOU WERE TOWN AND TO GET THE VOTE UP

TO FIGHT TO LIVE

TO DO SOMETHING

YOU JUST SIT THERE AND DID NOTHING AS YOU WERE WAGONED IN LYLO

READS ARE USELESS. EVERYONE VOTING FOR YOU IS EITHER SCUM, OR THE TOWN IS DEAD

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

Me sitting there and typing: "I'm town you fools" wouldn't have done anything.

[Zdenek]

grey... you ignored my awesome theory?!

That I was the scum neighborizor? Yes.

Considering who you chose to neighbourize, is it really that hard to fathom why people might have suspected you?