Open 295 -- Island Paradise Mafia -- Game Over


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Post Post #325 (ISO) » Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:16 pm

Post by DeathRowKitty »

havingfitz wrote:Pardon the delayed reply TT. At the moment I prefer DRK over the other lurkers because of the continued excuse posts (aka lack of interest), chiming in just enough to avoid prods/replacement....voting based on "useless gut" reads when there should be better reasons than gut at this point IMO. ani/bv just haven't done squat so I do not think they warrant a vote. Star was an option....and yabba ass well. DRK just rose to the top for me. And funny enough I notice a little surge in her posting sooooo :? :? :?
I kind of feel bad trying to make meta excuses for this but....well, that's exactly what I'm going to do. I have some ridiculous love/hate relationship with mafia. It causes me to join games for the wrong reasons, post actively for a while, then suddenly reach a point in which posting normally simply isn't an option for me. I can link you to a couple of my fairly recent games in which that happened if you want, but I'd honestly be linking you to my two worst-played games and quite frankly, they're embarrassing. At the very least, just check my posts. Whenever I've been inactive here, I've been posting actively in at most one thread. As for suddenly being more active again, well, check my posts to see my general trend in posting site-wide. What you're picking up on has nothing to do with my alignment and everything to do with what playing mafia does to me mentally.

Why do you think my gut is useless though? I mean, I could plausibly make the same argument of you: you're voting for lurkers when there should be better reasons than lurking at this point IMO. I've pointed to posts you can look at, agree with, refute. You're voting me for not being interested in the game.
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Post Post #326 (ISO) » Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:33 pm

Post by havingfitz »

DeathRowKitty wrote:
Why do you think my gut is useless though?
I mean, I could plausibly make the same argument of you: you're voting for lurkers when there should be better reasons than lurking at this point IMO. I've pointed to posts you can look at, agree with, refute. You're voting me for not being interested in the game.
It's a quote. You called it a "useless gut" vote...not me. And if I was voting someone for lurking you would be way down on the list. Active lurking perhaps but not lurking.
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Post Post #327 (ISO) » Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:38 pm

Post by DeathRowKitty »

Between March 31 and April 7, I didn't make a single post that could even remotely be misconstrued as being useful. How is that active lurking and not just lurking?
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Post Post #328 (ISO) » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:37 pm

Post by Jora »

DRK wrote:Let's discuss yabbaguy's post 57. Now, first thing to notice is that it's post #57 and there are 57 Heinz varieties. Yes, you heard me correctly.
It's called The Chewbacca Defence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xywqv1cDH8

As for the rest nothing has been changed. My vote preferences: Star\TheJakalope, animorph\Bv, DRK, yabba.
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Post Post #329 (ISO) » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:40 pm

Post by DeathRowKitty »

Well obviously that part of my post wasn't serious.

Any thoughts on the rest of what I posted?
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Post Post #330 (ISO) » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:51 pm

Post by Jora »

If seriously, I don't feel like goona vote yabba nor Sundy, anyways.
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Post Post #331 (ISO) » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:57 pm

Post by DeathRowKitty »

As far as I can tell, you suspect me for....being in too many games (wtf?) and because of my "cat-fight" with ani.

So 3 questions:
1) Does being in a lot of games have any bearing on my alignment in this game?
2) What makes you think that was a staged fight as opposed to me harassing someone interfering with my scumhunting?
3) Do you seriously think your case on me actually makes me scummy? :?
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Post Post #332 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:28 am

Post by havingfitz »

DeathRowKitty wrote:Between March 31 and April 7, I didn't make a single post that could even remotely be misconstrued as being useful. How is that active lurking and not just lurking?
DRK...what is your point? I'm not debating active lurking vs lurking with you. You called your vote on yabba "useless gut" (any comment on that?)...and you said there were better reasons than lurking to vote people for. First off DRK...I never said I was voting you for lurking. Check it. You brought up the topic of lurking. I said you weren't lurking....I said
perhaps
you were active lurking but
not
lurking. It doesn't matter though because I did not vote you for lurking OR for active lurking. Debate the differences with someone else. Secondly, you say there are better reasons than lurking at this point to vote someone (I agree)....I would also argue (and I did) that there are better reasons than "useless gut" to vote someone at this point in the game.

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Post Post #333 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:00 am

Post by Jora »

1) No. I was literally shocked when realized the actual amount of games you had been being involved.
2) May be it had not been staged from very begining. But really in my opinion it was something wierd with that interfering. Or with your scumhunting. Or both.
3) I don't have a case on you. Just a strong suspicion. Even more, I guess it's nothing I can say that will make you or somebody else to be look scummy unless I claim PR with any (direct or indirect) guilty results. At current time the only thing which makes you scummy is your own posts.
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Post Post #334 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:10 am

Post by DeathRowKitty »

HF wrote:I don't care for DRK's continued cameo appearances where she lets us know that she's not intested in the game...yet she continues to pop in and puts a vote down on yabba based on gut conveniently right after yabba expresses suspicions towards DRK. And while it gives (or gave) me a headache dealing with farside...for you [DRK] to advocate we not post anymore is in effect trying to restrain two of the most active posters. My top suspect isn't getting any attention so I'll try elsewhere.

VOTE: DRK
This was your reasoning then? Let's break this down into parts:
1) continued cameo appearances where she lets us know that she's not intested in the game
2) popping in and puts a vote down on yabba based on gut conveniently right after yabba expresses suspicions towards DRK
3) trying to restrain two of the most active posters

The first is just a wordy way to describe a specific brand of lurking (the "I don't feel like posting; I'll post something useful later (lolololol not really)" type). So lurking was certainly a part of your accusation. Now moving on to the second part, your logic there seems to be that I saw that I was being suspected by yabba and jumped in with an OMGUS. Well, I guess I really have nothing to say to that besides that I seriously didn't notice yabba's post expressing suspicion of me. It goes along with the whole not-posting-for-extended-periods-of-time-and-then-skimming-just-to-make-some-sort-of-post thing. I can also honestly say, whether because of skimming or just because it's been so long since I read it and I forgot, that I didn't realize Jora was suspicious of me until I checked his iso a few hours ago (between his post 330 and my post 331). Not sure your third point is worth responding to. If you don't think you and farside have been suffocating the game with your argument, then you're reading a different game than I am. If you can't post sufficient content without arguing with farside in every other post you make, you're no more useful than I am (oooohhhhh, buuuuuurrrrrrrn).

And my vote is no longer on yabbaguy, so I'm no longer voting on self-proclaimed useless gut. I am now voting based on what is arguably useless gut, but is at least tied to specific posts. I changed my vote when I posted because I realized that I no longer remembered why I was voting Startransmission. That tends to happen when I go a span of 7 days during which I post nothing but 2 prod-dodges.
}|{opa wrote:1) No. I was literally shocked when realized the actual amount of games you had been being involved.
2) May be it had not been staged from very begining. But really in my opinion it was something wierd with that interfering. Or with your scumhunting. Or both.
3) I don't have a case on you. Just a strong suspicion. Even more, I guess it's nothing I can say that will make you or somebody else to be look scummy unless I claim PR with any (direct or indirect) guilty results. At current time the only thing which makes you scummy is your own posts.
2) If you think it was the interfering that was weird, then that's purely on ani's end of things. If you think there was something strange about the way I went after him, then that's what would be theoretically making me scummy from that instance. However, if it's just the interfering that you find strange, then you should be taking a closer look at my ani/Sundy theory, considering he was awkwardly interfering with my attack on Sundy.
3) Avoiding the question via the wording. Nice. You know what I meant, but I'll rephrase it anyway: "Do you really think that the things you're pointing out are things that make me likely scum?"
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Post Post #335 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:35 am

Post by Jora »

@ DRK.
"If you think it was the interfering that was weird, then that's purely on ani's end of things."
Well, you are not in my top two of vote list, aren't you?
"look at my ani/Sundy theory, considering he was awkwardly interfering with my attack on Sundy."
In my games it was rather scum attacked his teammate for little or no reason than protected from inconsistent attacks of others.
"Do you really think that the things you're pointing out are things that make me likely scum?"
I have a gut feeling that you are scum. Not sure that I've pointed the right things though.
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Post Post #336 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:49 am

Post by farside22 »

Just an FYI: Beside DKR's activity at the start of the game, the fact she narrows down to 2 people as more likely scum and knocking out at least 4 people (including herself) as town isn't smart scum play.

@Fitz and Jora: What is you view of Sundy's play?

Upon review of everything I have accumulated from this game I believe scum to be part of these four players:

Scum:
Yabba
bv310/morph
Sundry
Star (as I said previously star lurking is null we have a replacement that unvoted and still waiting for more info, hence why they are last on my list)
Leaning middle:
TT (null. I had a gut read that was promising, but the lack of comments has him in the middle)
Everyone else I have a pretty good read on.
Cj (the VI of the game)
fitz (the stubborn mule)
Jora (the BW of day 1)
DKR (can't see her putting herself in a corner with those reads, plus strong performance)
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Post Post #337 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:23 am

Post by Nobody Special »

ZeroFang replaces bv310 effective immediately.
....what?



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Post Post #338 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:38 am

Post by ToastyToast »

I can see bv310 scum, but am unsure about Sundy. His vote on me was odd but I saw it as a legitimate mistake of fact. On the other hand, it was still a terrible reason to vote me.

And I'm sorry about the lurking, farside, finals coming up.
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Post Post #339 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:00 am

Post by yabbaguy »

Nobody Special wrote:
ZeroFang replaces bv310 effective immediately.
Oh, useless! ZeroFang's just going to lurk his way through and drive us further up the wall. >:(

(@ZF: That's me challenging you.)

@farside: What's your case on me? I'm getting frustrated; it seems as though all you have is "active lurking" and "gut reads" to justify your suspicion of me.
Sundy wrote:@Yabba: Why praytell is dodging questions not a scum tell?
Because people overlook them when reading in honest fashion. And if you do believe it's a scumtell, you dodged one of mine... why are you getting on a player for not answering a question when they hadn't even posted in the interim?
ToastyToast wrote:I can see bv310 scum, but am unsure about Sundy. His vote on me was odd but I saw it as a legitimate mistake of fact. On the other hand, it was still a terrible reason to vote me.
Granted, I'm of the belief that there's a lurking scum, but I'm less-than-satisfied that ToastyToast doesn't seem to actually be hunting for the scum in the actives meanwhile. ToastyToast is in that pool of lurkishness.

Couple that with the "}|{opa unvote" when he was on the wagon himself and it's
FoS: ToastyToast
.
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Post Post #340 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:56 am

Post by farside22 »

Yabba: When I see someone posting fine elsewhere and not saying anything of valve in this game but making excuses I'll call it scum with gut feeling.

I'm a bit sick so if you want to expand on your reason's for voting Star and what he did that was scummy over lets pick Sundy I'll check into it tomorrow.

I'm also going to call your post on TT the pot vs kettle.
I will accept you did say more recently. Did you check to see if TT is posting elsewhere or did you not take his comment about what is going on here
And I'm sorry about the lurking, farside, finals coming up.
untruthful for a reason?
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Post Post #341 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:44 pm

Post by ToastyToast »

ani/bv have posts a grand total of 7 posts! That ISO sure was useful!

You want me to explain my lack of scumhunting? Its the fact that this game has a curse of inactivity, and so I have no good information to bite on. I have no strong reads one way or the other.

Of all the active players, yabba has acted the most scummy.

@farside: If you are referencing the fact that I'm more active in other games, know that I consider those games to be more important because something is actually going on.

A few comments on yabba:
Looking back on his ISO, he has changed his stance in almost every argument
It went from "jora wagon is bad" to "jora is scummy" with no vote
After jora wagon faded it went to "havingfitz" had the worst hop on the wagon, even though he probably gave the most reasons for his vote.
Then he votes startransmission when everyone begins the lurker-hunt. startransmission had the more people suspecting him in comparison to the other lurkers
Now farside brings me up and I get a yabba FOS

I like DRK's argument but am unwilling to vote Sundy atm, and bv has too little information to warrant a vote.

Therefore,
Vote:yabbaguy
He's my best bet right now
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Post Post #342 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:23 pm

Post by ZeroFang »

yabbaguy wrote:
Nobody Special wrote:
ZeroFang replaces bv310 effective immediately.
Oh, useless! ZeroFang's just going to lurk his way through and drive us further up the wall. >:(

(@ZF: That's me challenging you.)
Challenge accepted.

I've been reading a lot and I'm making a post, but before I do, anyone have any questions for me? Any specific events you guys want me to speak my mind about?
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Post Post #343 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:48 pm

Post by ZeroFang »

This is up to page 5. I had not read beyond at the time of writing.
cjdrum wrote:How lucky is it (for the Mafia) that they got the Vig, and for us that the Vig got his kill in (on a Mafioso), too! The irony.
cjdrum wrote:Wait, we're not RVSing any more?

Unvote


I'm confoozled, I got here and RVSd and got told off? :x
I want to point this out. I'm surprised everyone missed it (except Jora, a page later). Not only does he comment on the results of last night (with
glee
), but also pulls the classic "Oh, I didn't know we weren't RVSing". I highly recommend everyone here take a class in The Basics of RVS Scumhunting, as well as reading Jeep's Common Tells. Stuff like this shouldn't get away unnoticed.

Even more interesting, DRK ignored this, and cj's defense of Sundy after calling ani out on doing the same. Jora asks about cj's aforementioned post, so DRK
flips shit
and rant-walls. This shows a couple things: 1) DRK is contradicting herself, 2) DRK has an affinity for cj (she refuses to call him out on anything), and 3) any attack on cj will receive a chainsaw from her.

The TT/Jora/HF/farside argument about lurkers was a ridiculous waste of time. It accomplished nothing. The other half (more like two-thirds) or the game was lurking at that point.

I expected a lot more content from
Y
abba. In the past I've found him to be a fountain of logic and content. This is not his typical style.

From page five, I currently suspect
Y
abba, DRK, and cj.
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Post Post #344 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:33 pm

Post by DeathRowKitty »

Get your head out of the wiki.

I assume you're saying it's strange that I ignored cjd's post because it contained a reference to night kills, right? Mentioning night kills isn't scummy in and of itself. Mentioning night kills with glee isn't scummy in and of itself (and no amount of pointing to overly generalized wiki articles will change that). Sundy mentioned the NKs in a way I would expect scum to (and I've mentioned why I believe that somewhere). The way cjd mentioned the NKs just doesn't have a scum mindset to me. Whereas Sundy seemed to just be mentioning the NKs because he felt he should, cjd seemed to be mentioning them because of a a genuine appreciation of the fact that the vig killed mafia and was himself shot, both purely by chance.

And if you see what exactly I was harassing ani for, cjd was not doing the same thing. Ani was trying to argue it was too early to say what I was saying and tried to write my vote off because of that. cjd addressed something that wasn't even the reason for my vote (and was therefore harmless) and that actually showed an attempt to understand it. Even aside from that, notice I didn't even call ani scummy at the time.

And are even reading? :? Jora's post on cjd wasn't attacking cjd for the same thing you're saying he's scummy for
at all
and if you think my "rant-wall" was a massive chainsaw, you clearly haven't read it.

So here's my advice: if you're town, reread the first 5 pages and actually practice some reading comprehension this time. If you're scum, plow on ahead and continue to take posts out of context to make yourself lolobvious.
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Post Post #345 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:37 pm

Post by DeathRowKitty »

Also interesting:

You say I ignored cjd's night kill comments and harassed Sundy's for his, with the strong implication that that was scummy on my part. What's funny about this to me is that you say cjd's post is scummy for pointing out the scum kills with glee, but fail to mention where I do the exact same thing here!
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Post Post #346 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:39 pm

Post by DeathRowKitty »

ZeroFang wrote:This is up to page 5. I had not read beyond at the time of writing.
cjdrum wrote:How lucky is it (for the Mafia) that they got the Vig, and for us that the Vig got his kill in (on a Mafioso), too! The irony.
cjdrum wrote:Wait, we're not RVSing any more?

Unvote


I'm confoozled, I got here and RVSd and got told off? :x
I want to point this out. I'm surprised everyone missed it (except Jora, a page later). Not only does he comment on the results of last night (with
glee
), but also pulls the classic "Oh, I didn't know we weren't RVSing". I highly recommend everyone here take a class in The Basics of RVS Scumhunting, as well as reading Jeep's Common Tells. Stuff like this shouldn't get away unnoticed.
Actually, without making reference to "The Basics of RVS Scumhunting" or "Jeep's Common Tells", explain why each part of that is scummy. Basically, explain what about the mindset of a scum player would make him/her more likely to do either.
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Post Post #347 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:38 pm

Post by cjdrum »

@ZeroFang: Umm... What DRK said. I was going to say much the same things in response to you, but also to point out the final line of your linked Wiki page:
The Wiki wrote:Note that these are rules of thumb, not hard and fast rules. There are and will be exceptions. The key to being a great player is being able to identify them.
Also, not sure what you could possibly mean when you say "the classic 'Oh, I didn't know we weren't RVSing'". I came in, people seemed to be RVSing, so I did too. Immediately after, DRK corrected me, and I was genuinely confused.

Now I'm simply confused as to why you are picking up so much on these miniature things.


Although... DeathRowKitty: You do seem to be "defending" me an awful lot.
a) Why do it?
b) Why me?
At the moment, it kind of looks to me as if you're trying to get me killed if you flip scum - but I don't know. IGMEOY, though.
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Post Post #348 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:51 pm

Post by DeathRowKitty »

cjdrum wrote:Although... DeathRowKitty: You do seem to be "defending" me an awful lot.
a) Why do it?
b) Why me?
At the moment, it kind of looks to me as if you're trying to get me killed if you flip scum - but I don't know. IGMEOY, though.
I only defended you as much as pertained to ZF's accusations. He said it was strange I didn't attack you, so I said why I didn't think what he pointed out made you scum.
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Post Post #349 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:16 pm

Post by havingfitz »

farside22 wrote:@Fitz and Jora: What is you view of Sundy's play?
Decent when he does post but not posting as much as I would like. Not a real strong town or scum feeling towards him. Seems to be asking a lot of questions but not sure what he is doing with the answers. Not sure who his main suspicions are.
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