Open 295 -- Island Paradise Mafia -- Game Over

[ZeroFang]

@farside: Second is probably ZeroFang as I look at it. I've gotta be really careful here, but it's sort of a conditional on ToastyToast flipping Mafia. Fang is being very anti-Toast at the moment, which pleases me, but in such an outspoken and vote-free way that it could actually just be a distancing tactics. Realizing that ZeroFang is sort of on a quasi-V/LA at the moment with his limited laptop access, I bet it's a lukewarm suspicion-flinging at Toast.

I would be voting for him except he's L-2 and the day is still young. I like using the day as much as possible even if we already know who the lynch is going to be. The more material and information we have, the better. Sundy is only my second suspect, and he seems to be picking up activity. For the moment I'm holding off judgement till I can get a clearer picture of him.

I am very pro-TT lynch. He has few reasons for his votes, they're flakey, and he's spent a great deal defending himself as opposed to actually building cases (or even worse, turning people's suspicions of him into cases, i.e. yabba). I'd say I'm 65% certain he's scum.

[ZeroFang]

Also, this vote is rediculously scummy. Like, not even funny rediculously scummy.

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 2.04

cjdrum - 3 - havingfitz, DeathRowKitty, ToastyToast
ToastyToast - 3 - yabbaguy, }|{opa, cjdrum
Sundy - 1 - farside22

Not Voting: ZeroFang, Sundy

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: May 9.

V/LA: ...

[Jora]

After long-long rethinking I'm not so sure about ZF scummness, but I would keep watching.
@ ZeroFang wrote "I would be voting for him except he's L-2 and the day is still young." <- This is OK, but I warn you: if you try any backpedaling without good reason I will not be happy.

[ToastyToast]

Also, this vote is rediculously scummy. Like, not even funny rediculously scummy.

Not really, if anything DRK's vote is scummier. I already stated cjdrum was on my scumlist, and I think he's scum with yabba. Since there were two votes on cjdrum and only mine on yabba, I have no problem lynching one of the two.

[yabbaguy]

@ZF: What do you need to know before the Day ends? I have respect for those who realize that votes have the dual-function of also wanting to end the Day, but I'm not sure what makes you think the Day needs to continue.

@Sundy: Why are you still sitting on your ass? What's prohibiting you from making a vote?

[DeathRowKitty]

As an explanation for my vote, the spinning apple told me to.



When you don't listen to the spinning apple, it hangs you from those hooks you see in the background. I speak from experience when I say that it isn't pleasant.

Any other questions?

[yabbaguy]

Yeah. Since when did the apple get a vote to lynch?

But honestly, what's wrong with Toasty? cjdrum is obvious Mcobvious Town and I bet you know it.

[DeathRowKitty]

This is actually a hydra account of me and the apple. When I don't listen to it, it hangs me from the wall by those hooks.

[ToastyToast]

Yeah. Since when did the apple get a vote to lynch?
But honestly, what's wrong with Toasty? cjdrum is obvious Mcobvious Town and I bet you know it.

What has cjdrum done to make him obvtown. Throwing the term around is one thing but actual proof is another. I've ISO'd cjdrum 2...maybe 3 times? and still do not see protown in him.

[cjdrum]

Yeah. Since when did the apple get a vote to lynch?
But honestly, what's wrong with Toasty? cjdrum is obvious Mcobvious Town and I bet you know it.

What has cjdrum done to make him obvtown. Throwing the term around is one thing but actual proof is another. I've ISO'd cjdrum 2...maybe 3 times? and still do not see protown in him.

Maybe not, but can you

please

,

please

,

please

tell me what I

have

done that is

Anti

Town?

Why are you so bloody focused on a yabba+me scumteam? You haven't given any real reasonings (for anything); the closest thing you got to a real reasoning for anything was this:

1) Attitude, but that was ended with my 1st vote on you.

Okay, if the suspicion ended, don't bring it up.

2) You + Yabbaguy makes an awful lot of sense.

HAS NOT BEEN EXPLAINED

3) Vote hopping: I can't track your train of thought at all, don't really know where your suspicions are...in contrast to farside, ZF, and even yabbaguy, you seem to be too flexible with your reads. A proper scum list on your part would be awfully nice plz.

I have my own train of thought. I understand it, and others don't seem to have a problem with it either. If you have a problem following, ask me what I meant or how I got somewhere. (also, I will work on a proper scum list when I get on a real computer - sorry for the wait )

4) The point on which you attacked me today (my speculation) is not something I see to be enough to warrant a vote, and thus the only reason I see for your vote lies within yabba's own reasons. I just don't think there is an SK among us.

My reasoning was stronger than your "Oh, it's really just a gut thing" reasoning. It seems to be that if you want to say anything to me, you should say it to yourself first.

5) GUT, and its a strong one. My gut basically starts my case on you, and with a suspicion in mind I've been paying a lot of attention to your posts. So, little things stick out.

If you believed that the colour red was out to get you, you'd be seeing red everywhere. The minor feelings from your gut calling me scummy mean nothing. I just want a real thing to defend against - if you give me nothing to defend against, I'll just be lynched without any say.

Italics is mine.

Honestly, TT. If I didn't have a vote on you already, I'd vote you simply for that last point - you're not letting me defend; you're just letting me hang at L-2 so some other people can vote on me when the deadline gets close.

[havingfitz]

Random ISO...TT seems to be getting a lot of attention so I did one on him. I like most of his posting the first page but then....I got to the post where he says cj is off his scumlist (TT ISO 25). This is followed shortly thereafter by his TOAST rating post where the only bad thing he hass to say towards cj is about cj's "joking approach"...which I admit I find suspect as well...but he (TT) still hass cj above a null read on Sundy and a leaning scum read on }|{opa. Then, strangely enough...within an hour of cj posting (for the first time in almost a week) that he suspects TT (and placing a vote on TT)...TT decides he could see cj and yabba as a scum team. Followed by the unexplained vote on cj. So overall...a decent first page of posting by TT but from ISO 28 on I must say he doesn't come across as very consistent. Why flip to cj so easily when you really really think yabba is scum and from what I can tell...you appear to suspect }|{opa and Sundy as much or more than Sundy. Is you vote on cj there for any reason other than the "joking approach?"

Also...really not liking the totally frivolous and silly apple defense posts by DRK for his cj vote.

[farside22]

cj: Who do you have a scum read on besides TT?

Also after reading fitz's comments i looked into TT as well. He was very back and forth on cj however a few things I had issue with.

Look here about one vote on CJ and what he has to say

Scum like to congratulate themselves, especially in a game like this when there are kills but no suspicion on anyone yet.
cj has other odd posts like this, like subtly suggesting that having a SK in game is a good thing.

Something about his/her attitude--havingfitz picked up on it earlier. Unless he intends to have this "TEEHEE" thing the whole game, or if its meta, I find it scummy.

I don't see any of the wagons right now, so Vote:cjdrum

Then he states the below

Scum like to congratulate themselves, especially in a game like this when there are kills but no suspicion on anyone yet.

What are your opinions on cjd also including the reverse of that?
And yes, you have been sigged

Its null, my votes intent was to draw cjdrum out. I read one of HF's posts and found the same oddities he mentioned.
It worked, and now he's voting me as his defense! lol

TT went from having a reason to wanting to draw cj out. Also many of TT's reasons for finding CJ scummy was really weak. From morph and CJ having the avatar's from the same tv show (seriously)
Then at the end of the day he put this in his scum list:

Under Toast (null?)
cjdrum: responses to my vote was good, but I still don't like his 'joking' approach (past games might be helpful for comparisons)

Now he has a case on Cj putting him with Yabba. I don't like it. I see this is more scummy and this is the second time I caught TT using a different reason for explaining something.
First it's his reason's for not posting in the game, then it's his vote and reasoning for Cj.

Vote: TT

[farside22]

That's L-1.

CJ and ZF answers to my question are required.

[ToastyToast]

Well, I claim Vanilla Townie (not that that will change anyone's mind)

@HavingFitz: The list was in no particular order.

And its notsomuch that my reasons for lynching cjdrum change so much as it is I added reasons to lynch him. Was my first vote to draw him out? Yeah, but there's a reason I picked him over other lurkers in the game.
I have nothing else to say, figured my disinterest would get me lynched eventually.

[havingfitz]

TT...it may not have been in a numbered order but within the TOAST category the comments towards cj were IMO less accusatory than towards }|{opa and Sundy. So for me it appeared you suspected them more at that time.

v/LA till Tuesday night.

[farside22]

Ugh. It's the inconsistancy that is killing me. I'm starting to think players are not always thinking about what they say what is going on in the game town. I would explain why but the game is still ongoing.
Plus I feel like every time I read TT there is my gut that says he's not scum. I just don't like his reasoning. I feel like I'm struggling with why TT does and what he says that just don't = town.
First Cj being called out. Pushing cj (who I feel is a VI that scum will easily attack) and saying very little about anyone else in the game.
Then there's moments he calls Yabba out that I see something sparkle in the scummy moment.

unvote:
vote: Sundy

I'm listening to my instincts right now. If TT isn't scum with Sundy I need to see who because there is no way Sundy is town. This is instinct (gut and read of his play) He's very low under the radar and suddenly when someone presents a case he calls them scum. I find it interesting to note the DRK has ignored my question and Sundy didn't call him out.

*scribbles notes*

[Sundy]

gah Farside. I do agree that a no lynch is a bad idea. But when the lynch on Jakalope was impending, you didn't say "good point, Jora," but only said it later on, even while simultaneously casting slight aspersions on Jora. You find Jora "odd, but not enough to say [he's] scum," but also like his point enough "to keep an eye on ZF." Do you not see ANY ambiguity contradiction in your read in the game? Re: your #482 post, yes I read what Jora said at the time, and agreed with him because he was going for the ZF lynch, and showing ZF's contradictions.

@Farside w/r/t #516: You're giving me weird vibes, because you're giving very detailed explanations for your play, but also repeatedly pushing lynches on people I don't think are bad (not to mention me), while halfway seeming to protect people like ZF who do seem bad. Reading your posts and trying to figure out if you might be scum is kinda like climbing up a greased mountain. Also, why am I responsible for calling out DRK for ignoring your question? Which question are you even talking about?

@ZF w/r/t ISO #19: your activity may have tapered off, but you stepped out of your shell and gave several reads on the game. That's why I no longer thought of you as a lurker with a null-read.

Time for

VOTE: ZF

.

Much better plan than CJ/Toast. All he's done is demand of Yabba/Toast a concise list of reasons to vote the other (seems to be saying there's no case on either), and then later says he's "very pro-TT lynch." His case is a broad generalization about his play, and then he says Toast's vote on CJDrum is scummy.

@ZF: Why is Toast scummy for his vote and not Fitz, DRK, CJ & Jora, who also hopped on a bandwagons with limited reasoning?

[farside22]

gah Farside. I do agree that a no lynch is a bad idea. But when the lynch on Jakalope was impending, you didn't say "good point, Jora," but only said it later on, even while simultaneously casting slight aspersions on Jora.

And I already explain what Jora stated at the time of the quote you made and the comment I made was after Jora explained his read on ZF. You can keep ignoring that all you please but I know everyone here signed up for a game that they can go back and read for themselves.

As for ZF I think your scum Sundy. I don't see scum bussing this early especially with one scum buddy already dead. It's the only reason I'm not pushing at ZF right now is that my eyes are glued on you.

As for my comment at the end. You haven't said much about DRK I find it interesting that DRK called you out as scum yesterday but you didn't attack him or his reasoning but your attacking me.

[Jora]

I knew it. That guy is one BAD apple. Could we lynch DRK, right now, please?

Also, I love the way Sundy think. He must be town.

[farside22]

I knew it. That guy is one BAD apple. Could we lynch DRK, right now, please?

Also, I love the way Sundy think. He must be town.

What is it you like about his thinking. And remember I'm not Cj I require more indepth comments.

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 2.05

cjdrum - 3 - havingfitz, DeathRowKitty, ToastyToast
ToastyToast - 3 - yabbaguy, }|{opa, cjdrum
Sundy - 1 - farside22
ZeroFang - 1 - Sundy

Not Voting: ZeroFang

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: May 9.

V/LA: havingfitz, through Tuesday April 26

[ZeroFang]

Re: your #482 post, yes I read what Jora said at the time, and agreed with him because he was going for the ZF lynch, and showing ZF's contradictions.

Maybe I'm just nitpicking cause you're voting me, or maybe I'm just the only one who noticed since it's about me. But Jora's reasoning wasn't all that great in the first place, and all you did was piggyback on him.

@ZF w/r/t ISO #19: your activity may have tapered off, but you stepped out of your shell and gave several reads on the game. That's why I no longer thought of you as a lurker with a null-read.

I understand, and this is acceptable just so long as you recognize that you're speaking about my slot in this game, and not my individual activity.

@ZF: Why is Toast scummy for his vote and not Fitz, DRK, CJ & Jora, who also hopped on a bandwagons with limited reasoning?

Because he has almost exclusively hopped on bandwagons with limited reasoning, in addition to being scummy himself. DRKs a wildcard, I haven't been able to pick up much either way on her. CJs new, and it appears his efforts are genuine. Jora's very hotheaded, but also provides plenty reasoning for his votes. Not that it's good reasoning, but it's genuine reasoning.

One more thing. If I understand you correctly, you just said Jora hops on bandwagons with limited reasoning, but he's also the main one who influenced you that I'm scum. How does that work, exactly?

[ZeroFang]

@ZF: What do you need to know before the Day ends? I have respect for those who realize that votes have the dual-function of also wanting to end the Day, but I'm not sure what makes you think the Day needs to continue

Nothing, actually. I like having longer days, it gives me more material to work with. But this one is growing stagnant, and at this point... well, there is no point. I think farside was trying to ask me something, I'll hammer as soon as I get a response. That could be later tonight.

CJ and ZF answers to my question are required.

You asked CJ a question. Did you mean to ask me one as well?

[Sundy]

I voted you before Jora did, ZF

Farside: DRK didn't vote me. You did. Unfocused complaints aren't as relevant for me to respond to as an actual case (however weak) with a vote. The rest of your post, I'm honestly not sure what you're talking about. Your obviously accusing me of lying, but the content/substance as to why is not clear to me