Mafia MetaMafia ~ Game Over!

[Duplicity]

hello friends

Regfan is V/LA for 4 days or so you'll all just have to deal with me until then. Right now I feel like the kid in Home Alone.

quadz, why is a miller claim +townpoints but asking about alignments suspicious?

I like hito's logic in #86 re: AGM's claim. Exactly what came to my mind. Gets him towncred from me.

Vote: AGM

for that most recent post.

[Duplicity]

Stop thinking of it like double day and think of it like a Vig that requires town consent. How is that not protown? It's awesome because it checks back stupid ass Vigs while still giving the town extra kills. And it's definitely not a SCUM power.

This would be true if the town had good reason to want mothrax dead, as of right now I don't have much reason to want him dead over anyone else.

@hito - if you had to pick your top THREE players on this playerlist to policy lynch, who would they be?

But seriously, what town motivation is there in asking this question? It's just generating noise.

[Duplicity]

If you had a one-shot N0 Vig, would you use it?

Nah. More chance of hitting town than scum. Additionally grudging people is stupid and I wouldn't vig them even if I had a desire to.

But seriously, what town motivation is there in asking this question? It's just generating noise.

I'm asking him to rank people who he would policy lynch (before mothrax). Given that we are having a discussion about policy lynching, how is that noise? It seems pretty on-topic to me.[/quote]
Yeah, but why discuss policy lynching at all? What do you hope to gain from discussing it? seems to me like a pointless sidetrack that yields nothing.

Duplicity's two posts felt like wishy-washy passionless scum filler. Also, boo for parroting hito on his AGM point. Might move our vote there, although it feels a bit easy.

Nah, I just don't have many reads right now is all. You come off as wishy-washy a few times within the same post. I don't think it's anything out of the ordinary for early day 1. But I felt hito's thinking w/r/t AGM's claim mirrored my own and seemed like pro-town logic. Am I not supposed to say when I agree with someone?

wait nvm i put my vote in the wrong place i see now it should be

unvote
vote: VasudeVa

[Duplicity]

Regfan side of the head here. I've been reading through this thread for the past hour attempting to catch up, finally done so and I'm going to be V/LA for the next 2-3 days so G will have to take control then as well.

I have a lot of town reads but G thinks it's better to withold them for now so I'll do so. I don't like the VV votes, intially I did but his last few posts scream town. I've played with him before when he was scum, he tends to avoid the case against him rather than full on confront it. I can understand the Quadz votes, leaning scum on him though I think there's too much focus on him right now, he's likely to become easier to read later into the game. Paramas arrogance and rage is a town-tell, Magua you should know better than to vote him here.

Lets take a look at VP's post for a second. In this post he:
1. Fencesits over Niki Minaj providing a massive overexplanation over why he has a null-read on her.
2. Asks "Does he always play defensively like this when he's town?" in regards to Quarz. I've read over this multiple times and everytime I read it the phrasing seems to imply he thinks Quadz is town however he votes Quadz in this post.
3. States he isn't going to be sure Sotty is town unless he dies and flips town? Okay...that's just fluff.

In this post he states he'll stop posting for the sake of the game, this is at 1:21pm. He then posts at 1:30pm, 5:07pm, 8:35pm, 8:39pm, 9:05pm and 9:47pm with none of these posts providing showing active signs of scumhunting.

Unvote, Vote VP Baltar

[Duplicity]

Magua, I don't think your vote is scum-motivated merely misguided. Can you elaborate into what makes you believe Parama is mafia? Also, what's your read on Hito?

Nicki Minaj, if you believe my post was an attempt at distancing that means you too believe VP is mafia so can you kindly move your vote to him?

[Duplicity]

See little point in talking about Parama now until the flip.

I never make this face but -.-

I thought that was a reaction-test by you, christ why would you waste the dayvig shot this early into the day.

[Duplicity]

Actually I think that Mina wanted to vote for VPB and thought that you were town, but when I see someone buddy/distance/etc, I like to vote for the person doing the thing I think is scummy. Which I'll do as soon as I convince Mina that she's wrong and you're scum.

So let me get this right, you believe I'm scum because I'm FoSing the same person as you are? That logic is flawless. Although I promised G I wouldn't state all my town-reads I really want to get them down before I forget them all due to excessive partying this weekend - It's a few of my friends 21sts.

Spoiler: Town Reads from strongest to weakest.

Magua:

I know him fairly well and he wouldn't fake dayvig as scum, especially not after his game where he just won as day-sk.

mothrax:

The way he handled the situation with AGM as well as his attempted case against Quadz both read as geninue town-tells.

AGM:

I don't see scum gambiting via doing the claim he has at all.

Gamma:

His miller claim isn't something he would do as mafia, the way he handled the other miller claim by Scottrulez also reads as town.

Ooob:

The outright claim and request here reads as a strong town-tell. I also agree with almost everything said in this post.

Singersinger:

Drunk posting is something mafia generally have the will-power to avoid doing, also this post reads as a town-tell.

Faraday:

He seems to be actively scumhunting, the way he read through other games by Parama to see if rage is a town-tell from him or not seems town-motivated.

Nicki Minja:

Hydra disagreements seems legitimate and something I'm used to.

Parama:

His rage-posting and arrogance reads as town.

VV:

His defence is the opposite of which I've seen him use as scum, he avoids confrontation as scum, him omguing and attempting to attack them back screams newb-town.

Equinox:

Although it's a weak tell, the fact he has a spreadsheet he's keeping updated reads as a town-tell as does his attempt at scumhunting.

Spoiler: Null reads.

Katasuki

RayFrost

Scottrulez

DDD

Nobody Special

Seraphim

Spoiler: Scum reads from strongest to weakest.

VP Baltar:

Fencesitting, lack of active attempts at scumhunting and extreme degree of fluff posting.

Hito:

Excessive amount of setup specultion without any real conclusion reached from it, it reads as an attempt to seem contributive over anything else.

Plum:

Has really only addressed a few players posts in the game, has shown intention to tunnel towards Parama without going into her reads elsewhere.

Quadz

: Overdefensiveness when one vote was placed on him, lack of any real contribution.

[Duplicity]

FUCK.

I just did a count, that's the 12th vote on Quadz and the hammer.

[Duplicity]

Wait, I counted the same people multiple times, my bad.

[Duplicity]

*Crappy noob case that makes no sense*

I think the best part is when you say I'm being useless by answer questions specifically directed toward me and I'm not scumhunting because I point out a contradiction in thought and action made by singer. Well done, champ.

By answering questions directed towards you I'm going to assume you mean bickering with MoI over AGM's use of his ability, that sure does seem beneficial.

By scumhunting, you mean questioning something that Singer did without drawing any conclusion on what it means to her allignment? Damn, you're the boss at this.

[Duplicity]

Duplicity...in response to your take on a N0 vig shot, do you think all players are of equal use? Do you think there's any benefit for town to have a policy lynch so early in the game?

No, I don't think all players are equal use. No, I don't think there's any gain from policy lynching.

Duplicity: For the record the reason there are few "conclusions" reached from setup speculation is because I'm not DONE yet. I want to make a single guide that can't possibly be missed so scum can't claimed they just didn't notice. Honestly, in this setup, the biggest boon of speculation won't be CATCHING scum - it'll be bullying scum off of optimal play. But progress is considerably slower here because I have to write NOT KNOWING the worship distribution, which means I have to write for all of them.

Unless I'm illinformed we have no real control over what mafia does worshipping wise, nor will we find out what they did thus speculating over what everyone 'should' do is merely a distraction from scumhunting. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't trust SottyR completely because of the miller claim. I'm not saying it's null...I'm saying it's something that people should always keep in mind unless some other info comes up that exonerates them or I get a super strong townread on them. I think that's reasonable, apparently we disagree though.

What exactly is gained from stating you won't be sure he's town until he gets nk'ed? Reduction in the likelyhood he gets nked? That's about all I can see.

I am playing my cards closer to my chest, which is intentional and what I think is best for the health of the game atm. Given the player list, I don't plan on rushing anything and I don't feel a need to be a 'big town leader.'

There's no need to be a big town leader but at the same time I don't understand the refrainment from stating your reads. In what way is witholding your opinion given the current situation beneficial?

Oh seraphim is also town.

Explain.

[Duplicity]

His frustration in ISO #8 was the only town-tell I could see, and a minor one at that. Again, care to explain what makes you believe he's town exactly?

[Duplicity]

Regfan side of the head herer, slightly high, very hungover but I've managed to catch up finally.

VasudeVa, basic mafia instincts don't change between normal and marathon games, people still attempt to use the same avoidance or defensive mechanisms.
Singersinger, I see no benefit in policy lynching becuase it means defering lynching the scummiest player in the room just to remove someone that may actually be beneficial.
Quadz, the fact VPBaltar didn't cease posting is a scum-tell because he said doing so is not in the towns best interest, stated refrainment from doing so while not forfulling this in any way.
Scottyrulez, I have no read on Seraphim whatsoever though I believe G has a slight-town read on him, not sure why.
Seraphim, can you explain Plumtown to me?
Katsuki is town, fairly positive on that.
Quadz, null on Parama? What do you make of his reaction to the vigtest?
So much filler posts here. Ugh.
Nicki Minaj, I agree with most of these reads, though you'll need to explain Parama-scum. Posting my reads was done because personally I don't understand the concept of withholding reads unless you're waiting for someones reaction - which I wasn't doing at all.
Parama, this post is pathetic, literally Vezo level of posting terrible. State your three biggest scum and town-reads with reasoning behind them in your next post.
RayFrost, first of welcome. Second of I could be a sucker but I read this as a geninue town-tell, mafia are likely to have pre-game chat which includes a link towards this thread.
Magua, thank you. Jesus christ these filler posts were getting annoying.
Mothrax, this post just solidifies my town-read on him, don't see scum suggesting to have themselves lynched at all.
Faraday, I disagree with the entirety of this post, he's been less-pro town this game then I've ever seen him, a lot of that has to do with his lack of activity in the past day or two.
Scottyrulez, haven't had a chance to discuss this with G yet but Quadzs against DDD seem like a weak-buss attempt. He's saying DDD is scum and then turns around saying he finds multiple other players scummy and he's willing to vote elsewhere ie. Parama.

[Duplicity]

I still don't understand why that's scummy, Dup. VPB said it was in town's best interest for him not to post; in order for continuing to post to be a scumtell, that statement would have to actually be true, which I don't think it really is.

Not at all. Lets use an example, if I say that lurking this thread is anti-town and then proceed to lurk the thread, that's openly admitting to being anti-town.

People that shouldn't be dying even if someone claims daycop with a guilty result (hint: the daycop's scum): MoI, Equinox, VPB, Magua, Hito, Gamma

I can understand the Magua, Gamma and even the Equinox town-read to a degree but can you explain the other three.

People that are town but not nearly as clearly obvious ubar town as the above: Faraday, DDD, Quadz, Mothrax (mothrax is town due to associative tells based off of those voting him rather than his individual play), Parama, sotty, plum

I can agree with Faraday, Mothrox, Parma and Sotty but explain the Plum/DDD town-read please.

Scum that should be lynched even if someone claims daycop with an innocent on them: D[ark]A[rts], VV, AGM

I don't agree with either of these reads though I can understand the DA and VV one to a degree but do you think that AGM is
A) Faking his roleclaim and if Mothrox gets lynched he is proven fake or
B) Isn't faking his roleclaim and is mafia with the power to prolong the day if Mothrox gets lynched