New York 131: Tricycle Mafia (Day 5)

[Amor]

vote: Maxous

[Amor]

What time zone are you in?

EST, otherwise known as the real time zone.

What's your experience level? Especially good to know in case of alts and whatnot.

I played some games a few years ago, then came back recently. This is my 3rd game since coming back, and I think my 10th game overall.

About how active will you be in this game?

It's the summer so I've got pretty much nothing but free time, so I plan on being pretty active.

[Amor]

Bloody hell, are we out of the RVS already? That was quick.

Actually it was pretty slow. In my last game I got home like 6 hours after the game had started and RVS was already over.

I don't like Pine's interrogation of Thor -- his certitude seemed pretty obviously jokey to me.

[Amor]

Well, I dunno about that, I

am

gathering information right now... information such as the fact you made your RVS vote serious because Toon brought the nhammen wagon up to level with the only other big wagon at the time... say what you like, but bringing a wagon up to joint first sounds like being pretty serious about wagoning to me.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "gathering information"? And does the last line mean you're suspicious of SZS?

[Amor]

Nothing about Thor's case? Yeah, I'm happy with my vote.

It wasn't a case, it was one line without even a vote. I didn't think it was really worth a response. Maxous and I had similar observations, so what?

Anyway, we seem to be out of RVS so it's time for a real vote.

Unvote
Vote Knight of Cydonia

Mostly gut, but I don't like his lack of opinions or trying to pass off reading the thread as gathering information.

[Amor]

You appear to have failed to notice the fact I was asking a question of SZS and waiting on an answer... but please, feel free to misrep harder in order to justify your vote.

What question was that? The only question you asked was to SZS about his reasons for voting Toon, which he had already posted, and re-quoted to respond. This was all before my posts or what I quoted. I don't really consider getting people to copy and paste what they've already written active scumhunting.

@Toon Fighter: Nice OMGUS.

[Amor]

I'll also add Pine to the list of acceptable lynches (Toon Fighter and Maxous are the others, for those wanting to look towny when placing their votes

Why are you telling people how to look townie?

[Amor]

So, when you said you didn't like Pine's interrogation of Thor, you decided not to accompany that with a vote, but in the same post, mentioned another game in which RVS was over. But, you are only removing your RVS vote now? Why the long wait, when you saw something you didn't like earlier?

I wanted to keep the Maxous wagon together for a bit longer, as it seemed to be generating discussion (i.e. the SZS/Toon argument). Pine wasn't scummy enough to get me to take my vote away from that, but KoC was.

Amor, do you still find Knight to be the scummiest player right now? What are your thoughts on the popular wagons?

Knight has been the most consistently scummy. Other players have made scummy posts, which I've tried to call attention to, but Knight is the only one whose gameplay as a whole is suspicious.

As far as the popular wagons: for Toon there wasn't much to the original case, but his flailing in response to it and OMGUS vote was very suspicious. Pine's interaction with Thor still strikes me as weird, but his other posts look fine. I'm not sure why there are three votes on SZS, as he's struck me as townie so far.

Also, I don't think Thor was coaching with the line I mentioned, but rather using town-cred to entice people onto certain wagons. Thor is basically promising the less active players a free pass if they vote how he wants them to. Just because someone agrees with you doesn't make them town, and it seems stupid to leave a huge chunk of players free from investigation. I'm not sure whether this is just bossy town play or active scum manipulation.

[Amor]

Welcome to the game, Mastin, and thanks for replacing.

Thor -- I just don't think it's a good idea to intentionally ignore the half of the player base who are below the radar right now, or tell people how to escape your suspicion. But your response gives me town vibes, so I think this is just an argument about tactics.

• KOC and Subzero are likely to be town.
  I think Jmurph is town.
  Ever so slightly leaning town on Wraith.
  nhammen and Mr.Zepher look like town.
  I'm unsure about Thor- I'll see after a couple of more posts.
  VERY unsure about Amor
  Pine looks slightly scummy
  Toon fighter seems like mafia - quite interested in his next post

Everybody else is null due to not having enough content to judge them by apart from:

Unvote

VOTE: Silverbullet

Looks to be active lurking.

Don't like this post. Why make a list of reads if they're almost all going to be uncertain or couched in weak language ("looks slightly", "seems like", "I think")? This is trying to look active and content-full without taking much of a stance.

[Amor]

@mastin2: you seem to be trying to slip under the radar easily. Also, your 3 psots so far are bs. No content, a crappy vote with no reasoning, and you want DK to make a big post, but you don't do any.

unvote, vote: mastin

I want more content out of you, fast

"Hey guys, pay me no mind, let's go after the guy who replaced in yesterday for lack of content."

No one seems to agree with me about Knight so...

Unvote
Vote: Toon Fighter

[Amor]

@Amor - I actually agree with you about him insomuch as I find him scummy. The issue is I find him scummy for things you're also doing and that I find scummier than how he's doing them. Do you find Toon scummy for anything other than what you just quoted?

My scumdar started going off with his OMGUS vote and flailing at having a couple of votes on him. The last set of posts just confirmed that he's just looking to deflect attention from him and not scumhunting. As for your suspicion of me, I think I've responded to all the points made against me, and that's all I can really do.

Sigh, we need a better wagon to get today going. I like Amor much better. Vote: Amor Attacks scumhunting because of weak language, when we only currently have weak information in this slow game.

I assume you're referring to my point against Maxous. Posting a list of waffly, easily retractable reads isn't scumhunting, it's filler, and that's not going to make the game any better.

Uite, mastin -- any ideas so far?

[Amor]

Uite lurking is typical town Uite

No. Fuck meta, and fuck you if you're going to give him a free pass just by citing it.
Lurking is bad, Uite is bad, Uite, get the fuck out here and post please.

I'm curious what you're disagreeing with Silver about here. Silver said that Uite lurking was a town tell for him, you said he was wrong... so are you suggesting Uite is scummy?

[Amor]

Wow, Mastin just showered some posts on us. Sorry, but there's no way I'm clicking every link in that wall to see what you're talking about. I'm not sure I really understand the VCA process you're using and since most of the people it implicates I think (or in my case know) are town I don't trust it, but it does seem like a solid attempt at scumhunting.

Users browsing this forum: mastin2, MrZepher
^Another wall incoming, I presume?

Please don't do this. I leave the board open in a tab while I go do something else a lot of times, it doesn't really mean anything.

Zepher, can you explain your suspicions a bit more? I'm really not seeing the SZS case and I'd like someone to lay it out for me.

[Amor]

Nothing like a good old-fashioned slapfight. To be honest most of the SZS/Silver is semantics and "You're scum!" "Are not!" so I don't think it's really revealed too much other than that both are eager to fight back against accusations instead of slinking away like, say, Toon Fighter is trying to do.

With Amor, it's mostly gut (Sub has some gut in it as well) BUT I don't like the way you take Thor's "coaching" and Maxous' 122 and blatantly misrep them.
Also the stated reason for you unvote on KoC wasn't good.

No one seems to agree with me about Knight so...

Unvote
Vote: Toon Fighter

reads as: This wagon isn't going to kick off. Let's hop onto one that'll probably go through.
Of course this assuming you're scum, which I'm not sure what the likelyhood of that is yet.
Probably somewhat likely at this time and place.

Just as a note, I'm not voting yet because I don't think they need votes on them yet, or at least not from me if that makes sense.

There's no point in leaving a lone vote on one person all day while someone you find almost as scummy has a significant wagon. I had gotten as much pressure as I could out of that vote, so with a KoC wagon not seeming likely I wanted to use my vote to actually influence who gets lynched. This isn't that hard to understand -- your last line suggests that you know there's more to voting than just putting a vote down on your #1 suspect.

Agree. Amor, what specifically are you referring to when you say his "gameplay as a whole is suspicious"?

Just look at his ISO. Knight refuses to take a position on more than one occasion, his only scumhunting is latching onto a comment of mine, and then he goes back to posting drivel like telling Uite not to lurk. He seems like classic low-key scum hoping to coast by through not saying much of anything, and so far he seems to be succeeding. (Pine also fits this mold to a lesser extent.)

[Amor]

I guess it's time we decide who's more scummier, Silver or Sub. I will expect the rest of you guys read thoroughly examine their actions, and I will do the same. Failing to do so, reads Anti-town.

Why do we have to decide who's scummier between the two of them? There are more than two people we can lynch today, and it's quite possible that they're both town...

[Amor]

jmurph3, I never said that, you are trying to make me look bad. I am just saying, in a game, not everyone can scum hunt, there is the "prey", and there is the "predator". If every single person was the "predator" then things would be really hectic. So instead, there are some townies who actually want to play it safe, instead of turning into the "prey". But in general, I am not good at scum hunting, I don't want to ruin my reputation here.

In fact everyone can scumhunt (well, except for scum). You don't have to come up with a 100% original case each time, but just jumping on the most popular bandwagon without even thinking about whether it's going to get scum lynched is opportunistic as hell.

So yeah, DK just shot up my scum-o-meter for openly displaying a scum perspective.

[Amor]

Silver, at this point, I am really confused. You seem kind of innocent, in a way, and a part of me is saying we shouldn't go through with this, but your actions and what you've done says a thing or few.

Subzero- Read post 279, that is my reason for voting silver. The reason I say silver has some innocence within him, say 40-60% is because other people have way different reasons. Usually, people's reasons for voting someone scummy are kind of the same (meaning they did something really really scummy) or their are multiple reasons (meaning they did many scummy things). Yet, the reasoning on silver, are mumbo-jumbo, all different and jumpy jumpy, get what I'm saying?

More hedging. Seems like you want to avoid responsibility if Silver flips town. I think I'm okay with a DK vote now.

Unvote
Vote DeityKabuto

I don't like Mastin setting up lynches for tomorrow, but his arguments for it seem fairly logical. And I agree with Maxous that we definitely still have time for a non-Silver lynch, especially given how scum-filled that wagon looks. (And oh, who's in the exact position I would expect scum to be in on that wagon? My old friend KoC.)

[Amor]

I really don't see how that is scummy at all. You are clearly in the wrong mindset in saying that every few false "hint" is scumminess.

You don't see how "I'm voting for this person but I'm not sure if they're scum or town" isn't scummy? Your whole "sheep" schtick seems designed to allow you to hop on whatever wagon will get you a lynch without having to take responsibility for it afterwards. And the mindset you're referring to is being pro-town, you should try it sometime.

Who are the scum filling Silver's wagon? DK and KOC?

Them and maybe Pine. You and Mastin are right to say that it could be bussing, but I don't really get that vibe -- it seems like if they were bussing they would be making more forceful cases for town cred. In particular I don't think DK would be doing his "I'm just following the crowd" thing if he knew Silver would flip scum.

[Amor]

@Thor: Could you please explain how I'm "sort of sideline egging on a fight"? And I don't see what's so scummy about being suspicious of multiple people. It really looks like you're tunneling on me.

I will agree that I'm pretty uncomfortable with the "It has to be Silver or Sub" crowd.

[Amor]

Wait wut.

No idea what to think about mastin's claim. It seems pretty farfetched, but I also don't see a reason why he would fakeclaim it, even if he was scum with his buddy on the chopping block. At this point my mind is stuck in WIFOM City.

I still think a Toon or Deity lynch are our best bets today, and we still have time for either. Remember that we can get a plurality lynch at deadline, so we don't need the full 9 votes to avoid a no lynch.

[Amor]

Okay, looks like Toon is the best lynch that realistically could happen today.

Unvote
Vote:ToonFighter

[Amor]

Man, it would be nice to not have a wagon on me Day 1 for once.

@MrZepher: Of the three people I've voted seriously I've given ample reasons for why I think they're scummy throughout my posts. Sometimes it wasn't there in the actual votes but was established earlier i.e. through the move back onto Toon Fighter. Looking only at the vote posts and not the ones around them is either lazy or deceitful. Also, if that trips your scumwires so bad, look at Toon Fighter:

Random vote is random. Why are you arguing so much about a simple vote in the RVS stage? Why don't we discuss something more productive?
UNVOTE: VOTE: SubzeroSith

@mastin2: you seem to be trying to slip under the radar easily. Also, your 3 psots so far are bs. No content, a crappy vote with no reasoning, and you want DK to make a big post, but you don't do any. unvote, vote: mastin I want more content out of you, fast

(This was like a day after mastin had replaced in.)

UNVOTE: VOTE: Subsith

Don't have much time now. I like the case on subzero, and I had suspected him before. Also, I believe my vote is more useful there than where it is now. When I have more time (probably tomorrow, but can't promise anything) I'll make a bigger post.

(No bigger post was forthcoming.)

unvote, vote: silverbullet

(This was the entire post.)

just read mastins post, unvote, vote: subzerosith

unvote, vote: Amor

How is the votecount right now? We have so far 5 claims

There isn't much in Toon's other posts to justify these votes either. All in all Toon's voting history has been opportunistic as all hell, starting off with an OMGUS then a vote on a recent replacement for lack of content then jumping onto every bandwagon he can and riding it until he gets a claim out of it (the last post I quoted shows how focused he is on claims.) I'm kind of flabbergasted that I'm getting voted for making votes without content and VCA*-related reasons when this guy is the other leading lynch candidate.

*You would think mastin would rethink his methods after his first two for-sure scum candidates got confirmed town, but nope, just onto the next name on the list.

@Thor: In the post you described as "egging on a townie fight" I said mastin seemed logical because I thought he was town despite disagreeing with him. I should have been clearer. It's pretty weak, IMO, and even you seem to realize it with the qualifiers you keep putting around this point. And how does my repeated suggestions that both Silver and SZS were town (as you also thought, and turned out to be the case) fit into this theory of yours?

Anyway I've tried to address all the points against me but a lot of votes just seem to assert I'm scum without providing any reasoning. Pine's last vote is especially terrible, basically pulling a DK-like move of "Well I'm not sure but I'll trust you", except with mastin as opposed to the town in general. In my mind this is trying to avoid blame for the resulting mislynch, and raises my suspicions of Pine quite a bit.

I'd like to see the people that aren't on either Toon or I take a side, as it doesn't look like any other lynches are going to happen today. I'll wait to claim until these people chime in, as I'd really like to avoid doing so unneccesarily.

[Amor]

That's an awfully big Mason team. Is Scum Mason a bastard-only role?

SZS said that the three of them were confirmed to each other. So Wraith, any opinions about me or Toon?

It's two hours to deadline, so I suppose I should claim. I'm vanilla town. I would still prefer not to die, so if you think I'm town I would suggest voting Toon (Deity and Silver I'm looking at you in particular.) I've pointed out plenty of reasons to suspect him in my posts and even if he is town (which I think is unlikely) he's pretty useless town.

[Amor]

Wow, I guess we managed to pull that out of the fire. Big ups to Pine and nhammen, a.k.a. the competent half of the scumteam.

Fun fact: This was the second game in a row I got lynched D1 due to a VT fakeclaiming daycop. I hate gambits.