A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[xvart]

Sers and Ladies of the Court: I apologize for my absence during this trying time of our realm. If you have been searching for my voice amidst the chaos you need search no longer. I have just returned from the Caribbean and basking in the son for a week, working on a nice tan . I shall begin my read after I respond to about 200+ emails; but in the meantime, for ole CoK lulz:

VOTE: danakillsu

[xvart]

zoraster

(Post 11) - While moderately sound in reasoning, I find the comments about self raising a little too cautionary because I do not foresee any permutation of D1 activity that would allow for the scenario you outline (someone being raised with only 2 or 3 votes).

GreyICE

(Post 17) - Are you not confident in your scumhunting ability and that is why you would not use a strong mechanic for town (if you are town)? What about in tradition LYLO scenarios? And why are you voting DGB in post 21 over zoraster when he was the one that initially made the suggestion?

Now that I'm a little further on Page 2 I find it funny that the discussion about self raising is pretty much the complete opposite of the discussion in CoK.

MoI

(Post 43) -

Why are you holding on to your RVS vote when you clearly agree with lynch some VIs early in the game? Had you not identified any VIs at this point, either by current game play or past experience?

MoI expanded in post 84, but the question now is why all the bravado on how solid Benmage's observation was about how VIs can destroy town chances later in the game? And why wasn't it mentioned that you don't actually support lynching VIs unless they are scummy?

Noooooottt really, no. Don't have this amazing desire to find out what scum can do with a governor power. Don't have an amazing desire to find out if there's any powers that scum have brought online with this "Hand of the King" mechanic. Don't have any desire to find out that they have some sort of godfather powers or turn cops naive, or can get some cool thing if they're hand.

The Hand of the King is really only powerful late game, as a premise of the Raise is that it will go to a competent player, so an accidental lynch is out of the question. And, the Hand of the King is basically a death sentence sometime throughout the game as scum don't want a raised hand so that person will likely die sometime before it becomes a powerful town advantage and if that person flips scum we can go back and analyze the motivations behind the people raising that person.

I will claim this: I have absolutely no role powers that are turned on by being hand, I get nothing out of it besides what is stated in this thread, and I will use the Governor power for only the reason of preventing the lynch of

confirmed

town (and I don't mean their posts have been kinda townish), and absolutely not at all on day 1, period.

You said a few posts before this one you wouldn't use it at all.

And I don't want it to go to Twilight Sparkle, because frankly Sotty7 is dangerous enough as scum, nevermind throwing in two other excellent players, and I'm going to treat that hydra like a giant timebomb until it's confirmed town or confirmed dead.

Sotty is in the hydra? Hi Sotty. I must have missed the full rundown of who is in the hydra: hito, Sotty, and anyone else?

danakillsu

(Post 52) - DGB wasn't the person who pointed out "self raising was stupid."

LL

(Post 69) - I think it is a little premature to be calling out DGB for not aggressively scumhunting as per her usual fashion. There has been such little to go on (at the point of this post) other than Raise/Unraise discussion to make this a sound justification. Furthermore, at this point, DGB is actually participating more than I've seen her do in recent games.

Shadow

(Post 72) - I can't stand it when people claim to be the catalyst for early discussion. I generally find it an excuse for some identified scummy behavior; the only difference here is Shadow doesn't say it was intentional. Do you have any observations about the discussion that followed your comedy?

Bunnylover

(Post 85) - This is so unbelievably scummy/anti-town. Why would you ever advocate your own death if you are town? It is scummy because the statement suggests "Oh I'm so town because I am not afraid of dying" and it is anti-town because it is just terrible play.

Okay, I played in the last one, and I'm calling you on this. Are you honestly saying that any point during or after the game, you'd thought, "Gee, it's funny that a disproportionate number of scum are raising people others than themselves"? Even though MacavityLock and xvart, two of your three scumbuddies, both self-raised at first?

Mina is in the hydra too. Anyone else? Hi Mina. To clarify, the only reason I self raised was because I was just trying to blend in since the discussion was gearing that way. I was pretty worried about who to raise and what implications that would have later on. I also think at this point a good question to be asked is did any Raising analysis occur in CoK later in the game? I don't recall it ever playing a roll at all, but could be wrong.

It's simple, make me Hand.

Who wants their majority lynch aborted for terrible reasons? Who thinks that we're going to learn more about who is town and who is scum in a week? Or are we more likely for the scum to find a way to get a "townie enough" scum in place?

I believe three of the Greyjoy's were voting Percy to be raised out of completed threshold or 14. While there may have been some "influence" by the Greyjoy's in getting their partner raised but it was basically because of Percy's play. And, I'm still of the opinion that being raised isn't in the best interest of any scum because if there are multiple scum teams in this game the person Raised will be killed somewhere along the way (either because scum are scared of the double vote or because the person raised was raised because he is obvtown so to speak. I think I recall Percy saying post game or in the dead thread or somewhere that he didn't really want the position because of the scrutiny he was going to be under or because of the likely NK target, but he might can clarify his thoughts on this.

shadow

(Post 95) - wtf?

I just read the Hand of the King post and now realize it is a one shot governer ability (as opposed to like CoK), so scratch some of what I said regarding the longevity of the role and relevance to the last game. I need to stop assuming that things are like the last game...

Can someone explain to me who Hascow is since I haven't read SoS in four years?

And I think the coding proposed by GreyICE and stuff is going to confuse me unless it gets decoded along the way...

Kast

(Post 144) - What would prevent us from lynching scum later? From my experience it becomes increasingly difficult to lynch VIs later in the game either because town cannot afford to mislynch or there are other targets. I don't see how the dichotomy works in the given example.

Yeaaaahhhh. So lets see, I need a majority to agree to give me the power to keep it out of the hands of anyone who will misuse it, but any single townie could put it into someone's hands with one vote/unvote at the end of the day?

Despite your desperate attempts to get the governor power, you must concede that a lot of people disagree with your town credentials at this point in the game. Why do you keep pushing it?

This thread requires Percy, xtomx, and Feysal posting. And more Mikujin. And...well, too many others. But let's start there.

Why just start there? Why only call out those players? Is one or more of your scum buddies in that group and you want to get a passive aggressive attack on them?

I don't like Bunnylover's 204 calling out Benmage's "lining up lynches" of VIs and getting no connections there.

I could see a faked post restriction being formulated based off of a minor character fake claim. The other problem I have with the post restriction is it doesn't seem like it is standardized enough coming from Faraday. Moving into mod-WIFOM territory during when playing CoK I asked Faraday for a fake claim based on some compulsive role that if I didn't pick a target it would be randomly picked for me and he told me that, for my information, he didn't do things that aren't structured like that. At this point though, I've learned not to meddle in possible moderator motivations (right Chesskid? ). Something to keep in mind as we go.

Want another random wiki term, as MoI the wallbanger likes to call it? I'm feeling a strong case of LAL coming on.

Vote:DrippingGoofball

No reason to push this case that hard, and the lie doesn't sit well. Yeah, removing that vote was a mistake. The 'teehee, memory didn't serve correctly' or 'omg it was like three years ago' isn't going to fly when you just tried to get someone lynched by lying. I found the game in like 5 minutes, I can't believe that she didn't even bother to look it up.

This would be a pretty bad case of Lynch All Liars in my opinion. What scum motivation could be had from intentionally lying about something that was apparently easy to prove incorrect?

Manga

(Post 232) - in CoK the investigation immune Godfathers would have yielded their fake claim names as the results of a name cop.

Caught up through Page 10. I'll update my vote once I complete my read through.

[xvart]

If you're as confident that GreyICE is town as it seems you are, why are you still raising Twilight Sparkle?

Because you can have a town read on someone you don't trust to use the power, for one?

One of these players is scum:
Hasdgfas, zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, Mikujin

DGB - what was the basis of one of these people being scum? Was it based on a wagon somewhere along the way?

I would of course use it on confirmed/confirmable townies. That's the only reason I would, short we're in like 7 man LyLo, and I see someone vote followed by two posts that are just:

"WELL OKAY"
"VOTE: XXXXX"

If you don't believe I'd throw it away day 1, here's a simple solution: give it to me, make me promise to use it, and if I don't, lynch me day 2.

Another reason scum would want the governor role is to prevent a left field town save on a town lynch.

I like MoI's case on diddin in 287.

You never did. I was making a comparison between what you said and Benmage's push to lynch all VI's.

I'm failing to see the relationship, but are we comparing apples and oranges here?

Shadow seems new and silly (and is another one of those guys dropping "Aww shucks I'm not scum!" lines).

I think I've only seen the "dammit I'm not scum" once. What is your experience with this? Is it indicative of alignment?

@TS: Frankly I think the moment someone gets the governor ability they use it just to get it out of the way.

Frankly I think it would be best to give it to some alignment cop, but that's probably asking too much right now. I guess this would be my answer to Twilight Sparkle in the off chance we give it to an alignment cop they can save someone without blowing their cover (although they would have to explain it somehow).

@xvart
Okay, so Zoraster said something along those lines, too. Big deal.

Then you should be raising zoraster, since that was the basis for picking DGB for the raise.

I skimmed that wall and my name was nowhere in it, so I didn't read it
BL and diddin need pressures

I actually mentioned you once, but it was a reference to another game. Look for the smiley.

@Xvart: lol you so read that post wrong.

Apparently I did. Thanks for the clarification.

Are you saying you agree with Benmage in that lynching 3 to 4 player without gathering any information (because what would be discuss if the lynch is already settled?)? What exactly is wrong with pointing that out?

I don't see 3 or 4 VIs in this game (or rather 3 to 4 people I would consider a detriment to the long game). Who are the 3 or 4 people you think are VIs? I was saying that if someone is going to be a detriment to the long term game it is much safer to eliminate them now as opposed to later.

re: DGB and the hydra using AIM. I was in a hydra with Sotty once (as scum) and we talked on AIM quite a bit, especially early game; so I don't think that in and of itself is a town tell. But it does appear that Sotty hasn't really chimed in for their team yet so that isn't evidence to the contrary either. That being said, I think they are the most pro town person so far in the game.

I like both diddin and GreyICE for lynching, but I think diddin is the superior lynch at this point. Zoraster and maybe MoI at a decent third. Maybe bunnylover.

Raise: Twilight Sparkle

UNVOTE:
VOTE: diddin

[xvart]

MoI expanded in post 84, but the question now is why all the bravado on how solid Benmage's observation was about how VIs can destroy town chances later in the game? And why wasn't it mentioned that you don't actually support lynching VIs unless they are scummy?

As stated before … the point I was reinforcing (which was not intended to be Benmage’s rant) was not that VIs should be immediately lynched but that VIs who play scummy and are left for the end of the game based solely on the “he’s a VI” are a danger to Town regardless of their alignment.

Do you disagree with my stance? I can show you examples of VIs who were Town submarining Town in endgame and also examples of VIs who were Scum who managed to skate through to the end and win just using the VI Shield.

I do not have an opinion on when VIs should be lynched regardless of alignment behavior. There is only one person I would actively advocate for a lynch based on VI behavior, and he is not in this game. But your willingness to provide examples of town VI killing the town endgame and VI scum winning in endgame is strange based on your first stated premise not to lynch VIs immediately. Where do you draw the line and when should those people be lynched?

Re governor: how about raising a sensible vanilla townie read? I'm thinking chess or shadow.
It gives the scum one more PR to deal with.

...chess is dead. I assume we can't raise him.

Nevermind. I'm dumb.

Can you elaborate on why you thought cheeskid was dead other than "dumbness"?

Protip: If people want to believe you are vanilla, let them.

Obviously, BUT, that was a roundabout way of pointing out that it's stupid to try and fish out a vanilla to pin it to, because everyone (smart) is either gonna claim vanilla, or stay quiet, and in either case narrow down the pool of people scum should be shooting.

I'm not following this conversation. What does being smart and claiming vanilla have to do with anything and how are they comparable?

@xvart

I found DGB's arguments more solid and convincing. What's your issue here, anyway? This just seems like a weird buddying of Zoraster. I should try to remember that if either of you flips scum.

You found DGBs argument about anyone voting to Raise more compelling? She said she would vig anyone who self raises compared to zoraster's explanation for why self raising is worthless? And that is a weird sort of buddying, one that makes no sense at all sense if you are suggesting I am buddying by trying to get someone raised that in reality has no chance of getting raised and... it makes no sense, especially since I am not fond of zoraster's posting and have not advocated for him as town.

Is hascow posting in the code that was laid out or is it just posting? Is someone bothering to decode it if it is because I am just ignoring all of his posts outside of the votes.

Unraise: Twilight Sparkle

Raise: Percy

Based on what? Your only Raise before this was your first post, and if Percy had done anything to warrant a Raise you would have changed it prior to him needing to be prodded and his announcement or being sick so limited content.

MOD

If you modded a game, and put in a post restriction role and the person PURPOSELY broke said post restriction. Would you modkill them?

If a PR was in this game and was to be broken the intent behind the post would have to be judged by the moderating team. In the event we felt a player had purposely broken a PR to gain an advantage a modkill would be considered and likely carried out.

This only adds to my feelings I stated about Faraday as a mod and having ambiguous things/mechanics/outcomes in his game.

Preview Edit:

If a PR was in this game and was to be broken the intent behind the post would have to be judged by the moderating team. In the event we felt a player had purposely broken a PR to gain an advantage a modkill would be considered and likely carried out.

Especially given the mod's input, continuing to demand he break his PR is further demand for suicide which in and of itself is not a town behavior. I stand by my vote.

You need to explain how hascow proving he has a post restriction gives him an advantage, which is what is worthy of a modkill.

[xvart]

Protip: If people want to believe you are vanilla, let them.

Obviously, BUT, that was a roundabout way of pointing out that it's stupid to try and fish out a vanilla to pin it to, because everyone (smart) is either gonna claim vanilla, or stay quiet, and in either case narrow down the pool of people scum should be shooting.

I'm not following this conversation. What does being smart and claiming vanilla have to do with anything and how are they comparable?

How is this in any way a question you should be asking?
Nobody has claimed. Someone was of the opinion that shadow and I were VTs, and because of this suggested us as Hands. I don't know where you got from that that we claimed, but I would love to see it.

Unvote

Vote: Xvart

Satisfy me.

Okay, like I said, I was having trouble following the conversation or the genesis of the topic and I did not see what the relevance of why smart people claim vanilla or stay quiet or what relationship that had to anything.

Wait what? I'm not trying to imply it is somehow advantageous for him to have a restriction. I'm saying it's scummy of DGB to attempt to issue an ultimatum to him simply because he has one.

No, I'm saying that Eddard Stark said a modkill would result if it was purposely broken

to gain an advantage

. When broken the intent would be judged and consequences by that would be decided. So my question was based on your preview edit where you blanket statement said that forcing him to break his post restriction would result in a modkill, and I wanted you to explain how breaking his post restriction to prove he had a post restriction gains him an advantage.

[xvart]

Unraise: Twilight Sparkle

Raise: Percy

Based on what? Your only Raise before this was your first post, and if Percy had done anything to warrant a Raise you would have changed it prior to him needing to be prodded and his announcement or being sick so limited content.

I think it is clear what Magua is doing. The fact you missed this despite it being only just discussed doesn't sit well with me. Reads fake.

It is unclear to me and I don't see Percy being raised as a discussion point anywhere.

DGB - at this point I tend to agree with you about Hascow faking the post restriction, but I do have my reservations. It sounds to me you have zero reservations so why aren't you voting for him?

[xvart]

I'm not talking about raising Percy in partiuclar, I'm talking about Magua and who is choosing to raise and why. He is doing it in an attempt to read people as far as I can gather as reinforced in post 349. Your question reads like busy work.

It's hardly busy work as all he needed to do was just what he did: restate what he stated. I missed/forgot/didn't care enough to remember that Magua was giving the role to someone to help get a stronger read on someone. All I saw when reading was Percy's posts about being sick and then a Raise out of the blue (or so I thought).

Here's mentioning a vigilante:
"While this cop guilty means we have to Lynch MoI today, DGB's early defense makes her pretty much vigbait.""

Here's rolefishing:
"Just a thought. If we KNEW we had a vigilante, this would be clearer: give it to vig bait and let him get shot."

GreyICE - with respect to rolefishing and zoraster's comment, what do you think of my comment about giving the governor to an investigation role?

If you're as confident that GreyICE is town as it seems you are, why are you still raising Twilight Sparkle?

Because you can have a town read on someone you don't trust to use the power, for one?

.......Snipped Wall nonsense
.......
.......
.......
.......
.......
.......
.......
.......

I like both diddin and

GreyICE

for lynching, but I think diddin is the superior lynch at this point. Zoraster and maybe MoI at a decent third. Maybe bunnylover.

Raise: Twilight Sparkle

UNVOTE:
VOTE: diddin

<snipped picture>

Unvote

Vote Xvart

Someone forgot who their town reads were supposed to be by the end of their own wallpost.

Nope. My first question was a rhetorical question or maybe better described as an example and not an opinion of mine. The question wasn't even asked to me, but I responded to the question with a question, like "Did you think about this possibility?" The point I was making is that people aren't automatically going to give the Governor ability to the person they find most likely to be town. Case in point: you. Apparently a lot of people think you are town but you aren't getting the Raise. Even if I thought you were obvtown I wouldn't want you raised because I don't trust you with that ability.

If you read back through my posts it should be pretty clear that I've never thought that GreyICE was town, and leaning the opposite.

[xvart]

I read your ISO. Nothing of the sort is clear. All you've done is ask questions and wander around in an attempt to find the nearest bandwagon to jump on. Information over analysis? That isn't a description, it's like your life motto.

You clearly stated that I was obvtown and then by the end of the post I was one of the people you wanted to lynch because there was a couple votes on me and you saw a decent chance of a wagon.

Everyone: Read xvart's ISO. Then lynch obvscum.

If you read my ISO then please point out any indication that I thought you were town. And your commentary about me wandering around asking questions was my 13 page catch up since I hadn't been in the game yet. Anyways, to clarify (since you seemed to have missed the point) about my "obvtown read" the original quote:

If you're as confident that GreyICE is town as it seems you are, why are you still raising Twilight Sparkle?

Because you can have a town read on someone you don't trust to use the power, for one?

The "for one?" at the end of the statement should make it pretty obvious that it was an example and not a declaration of agreement with the read of whoever diddin was quoting that you were town. Suggesting otherwise is a huge stretch.

And you didn't answer my question why you are all up in arms about zoraster and his vig comment and didn't say peep about me commenting on giving Governor to an investigative role.

[xvart]

Everyone: Read xvart's ISO. Then lynch obvscum.

GreyICE, can you please show where xvart claims to have a townread on you? diddin's 252 is in reply to me and *my* townread on you.

Is it now?

Read his ISO Magua. Is he playing it close to the chest... or waiting and looking for an easy bandwagon?

Stop deflecting and show us all where I posted my obvtown read on you. It should be easy to quote since you just read my entire ISO. Last time I checked, "playing it close to the chest" (as you describe my play) =/= "obvtown read on GreyICE." And what the hell do you mean by "Is it now?"? Read it. It is obvious. It was just explained to you, multiple times. Not only the context of the conversation but the "FOR ONE?" at the end of my statement makes it obvious that it is an example and not "Hey person I'm quoting whose quoting someone else's town read: I agree with that persons town read."

PEDIT: Because I missed it. If MoI has something ridiculous hidden in the middle of one of his posts, I probably missed it too. But cool, draw attention to that as well. Nice WIFOM there, scum would never draw attention to something scummy they did, so you must be town.

You said you just read my entire ISO and you still didn't comment on it, even when I directly asked you. Is there a difference in what I said and what zoraster said? Do you think I was fishing for investigative roles? The reason I asked you is because I wanted to see if you were just looking for any little thing that could be construed into scummy behavior to use to look like you are scumhunting, which I suspect is the case.

Seriously, you are just throwing shit on the wall to see if it sticks.

DGB - I wish you would stay but I understand.

[xvart]

Oh shut up, scum. Really, I'm not going to much miss this game when we can't even get together a wagon to lynch you.

It's tough to put together a wagon with the case you are trying to push.

[xvart]

Sad to see GreyICE and DGB go like that, but I can't blame either of them.

Vote: Xvart

Why have people decided this Governor ability is something they want to keep in the game?

What the hell kinda scum vote?

Possible scum buddy of Xtoxm, getting a bus in on someone with no votes and not getting wagonned anytime in the near future. Why is Xtoxm's vote scummy and not the other people who voted me? Also, I'm torn as to whether or not his reaction posts to the dayvig are genuine or not.

unvote. Vote:Thor

Oops on xvart

I dont like the raivann wagon. He's Lannister i'm 100%sure.

No other explanation on you misread the case, didn't care about the case, hoped it was legitimate? Whoops on going back to your RVS vote of someone who has posted once?

I'm seeing the zoraster/Raivaan link, and I agree with diddin's 745 about zoraster retracting his scum read on Raivaan; I'm torn on which of the two will reveal more information on the other. I have to admit, both of their votes on each other are lackluster and not especially genuine in my opinion. I'll revote after I read them both in ISO.

UNVOTE:

[xvart]

Why didn't you that in your immediate follow up post?

Seriously, people look at Xtoxm.

To address your most recent post; GreyICE's (main) case on Xvart was almost completely misconstrued. Coupled with that blow up against DGB, and just his general scumminess this entire game is why my vote hasn't moved from him. It's like he would take one step forward, then two steps back every time I caught up.

[xvart]

Not so sure about my townread on Diddin anymore, it was more of a post to get a reaction out of him.

What sort of reaction were you trying to get out of someone by declaring him a town read? The fact that you said "not so sure about the town read" means you thought he was actually town, so you were reaction fishing for diddin to slip up and not actually be town or you were reaction fishing to undermine your town read because the person you thought was town you actually thought was scum?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Raivann

@Mina- What? This will be your 3rd game we've played together now. First one I was town, second one I was scum.
I think you must have noticed that I don't post this much when I'm scum. I'm too scared I'll f up.
Surely town Mina would notice this?

WIFOM aside, a sample size of two games isn't really indicative of much.

@People trying to say my existence on a town list is proof of my scumminess (Magna being the one I can think of right now): There were FIVE other people on the town list. Anyway, although this is a bit self-serving,

I honestly think xvart was more likely to put a scummate on scum list than town.

Can you explain the relevance of the bolded?

The Zoraster FOS buddy - Vote Townie is nice. Frankly I would rather lynch Raivann (the FOS buddy) which upon flip of a scum result will prove (or at least strenght) the fact that Zoraster was in fact doing that.

I agree with this.

Show me the quote where I said it was indicative of alignment. This is *especially* pertinent because Locke asked about this, and I answered, both before you posted. Did you not read post #783?

You may not have definitively said "zoraster is scum because he isn't posting," but the intent was clear. The fact that you followed up with a vote only substantiates your intent. You can't backpedal out of this one.

[xvart]

One of Twilight Sparkle and Mikujin are scum. I put my money on Mikujin.
One of these three is scum: Danakillsu, Locke Lamora, Thor665. I put my money on Locke Lamora.

Mikujin or Lock Lamora would make excellent lynches for today.

What say you to Zoraster being a lyncher? Do you think zoraster's target would be a scum member? I would lean believing that LL is town right now based on this information.

MoI - what is the color coding in your 973? I would think that hascow would be more likely town at this point based on the dayvig result. And what does blue mean?

Reading Rai's ISO, he may not be scummy (although I'd almost bet a cheeseburger that he stands a good chance of it);

What kind of fence sitting is this?

What's the Bunnylover case? Considering at lynch yesterday she opted *not* to hop on a obv. 3rd party for super easy town points I'm kind of wondering. My read is currently town.

How does Bunnylover not voting a 3rd party make her town? Scum wouldn't know that zoraster was a third party, so avoiding that lynch could simply be avoiding a lynch of someone other than her faction (if scum). I'm not following your logic here.

Nevermind; saw your 987, but I still think that is a bit ridiculous assigning town points for both jumping on the wagon and also staying off of it...

Oh, I'm pretty sure Raviann's scum.

Then why are you only nominating instead of voting? And how does this opinion mesh with your previous wishy washy statement )quoted above) about Raivann's scum likelihood?

And what is the point of your ISO analysis? No context is provided and even subtext of the ISO posts you are referencing is missing. With all those "contradictions" I would think you would be ready to vote.

VOTE: Ghostlin

Name claim =/= Role claim.

Well, maybe. But seriously? It is highly likely that name claim would give at least a little indication if that person is worthy of a NK or not.

Basically I'm self doubting my read.
Yes I think he scum.

Then what are you waiting for? What else is your vote for except to vote for people you think are scum? Are you worried that the solid scum read you are doubting might actually go through less than 48 hours after the day started?

Nominate: Bunnylover

[xvart]

Catching up tonight.

[xvart]

Xvart have you been drinking? I ask because it isn’t exactly top level Cryptography going in in 973. The colors tie to the mod provided flip colors.

An astute observation on your part that was actually correct. Thanks for the decryption.

Xvart: I am voting. I'm voting the person you find scummy enough to nominate. I don't acutally have two votes, or I'd vote them both.

Thank you. I missed/didn't connect your first post of the day where you voted, so everything after that point makes more sense in the context of your posts I quoted.

Unnominate

I originally voted Song because she wasn't posting and was browsing the forum. I think she had 1 post when I voted her.

Yes, but didn't you jump onto my wagon and then bail and go back to aSoIF slot which had nothing of contribution. You also identified Thor as scum here, which is more than your vote on the basis of non contribution. Your votes and explanations are not jiving. Thor had one post after replacing someone who flaked out; a post of "hi guyz. I'm going to do a honking post."

Where did you get your scum read and why was your vote only for not contributing? And do you have some sort of evidence to suggest that he was viewing the thread because his last post anywhere was the same day as his last post in this game. You never said anything to suggest this.

@Feysal, Ghostlin, Bunnylover:

Do you think diddin was bussing Raivann through most of D1?

I'll answer this since I still think it is possible that they might be on a team together. I'll have to go back and check to see when diddin started pushing Raivann because if it is early enough he could have thought the wagon wouldn't go anywhere (when compared to other wagons) or if it is late enough he could be hedging his bets and trying to buy some town cred if Raivann is a simple goon (compared to his tracker). It also isn't out of the question that Raivann could be self aligned SK. Raivann's failure to provide legitimate grounds for the aSoIF/Thor votes is incredibly untown.

On Raivann:
Contrary to what I think some people have indicated, diddin's Raivann vote isn't much of an indicator about Raivann's alignment, due to the fact that diddin is one of the leading wagons at the time. Shortly after Raivann votes Zoraster, which is about when the Zoraster wagon starts to gain steam, he states that he likes Zoraster as a Raivann buddy but that he'd rather lynch Raivann first; not sure whether a buddy would be so likely to say this, although I guess it would make sense from the perspective of having an easy candidate to fall back on once Raivann was lynched, and in the event that Zoraster is lynched first, this 'link' is then removed, giving diddin an excuse to drop the Raivann suspicion. I would say diddin also makes a real point of wanting to lynch Raivann first, which pings my scumdar. His later attack on Bunny which is coupled with a downgrading of the Raivann suspicion gives me a worse impression of the Raivann slot, as it really looks like diddin's already thinking about who to set up for D2's lynch and he uses Bunny's poor posting to basically drop his 'favoured' candidate way down his scumlist in the space of a few lines. I would say that diddin's approach to Raivann overall gives me a scummier read on that slot.

If the chronology here is correct then pushing on Raivann after zoraster gains steam is exactly what scum would want to do. Get a solid push on a buddy when the buddy won't be lynched. And I know diddin knows this because in CoK I was on a team with diddin and I pushed hard on danakillsu D1 (accidentally) and when dana flipped Lannister the next day I was given a lot of not-Lannister cred because of that push.

This is an unacceptable lynch for TODAY. Look elsewhere. We can reconsider it tomorrow. But for today he gets a pass. I've already said this. So either lynch me, or look into the many people I've listed for today. Otherwise this waste of fucking time is anti-town.

This is just nonsense to me. Any lynch that can be "reconsidered tomorrow" is not a "waste of fucking time" today. Nobody gets a pass.

I'll govern it yes. If you can't wait 1 day to lynch Raivann...and actually want me to use my govern ability on some shit like that...Than now would be the right time for you to claim scum.

Why would you govern someone that you would be open to lynching one day later?

I will elaborate. I initially thought DGB was scummy. However, the interaction with GreyICE and subsequence actions make DGB seem more townish to me.

How does the DGB interaction with GreyICE indicate alignment?

Then xvart in post 320 says, "To clarify, the only reason I self raised was because I was just trying to blend in." No reason for town to try to blend in.

I was referencing the previous game. I never self raised in this game.

6. I dislike Xvart because he attacks both Ghostlin and BL, but didn't take time to look at the full Ghostlin and BL interactions. This post is awful and makes me think that both addressed players are town while Xvart isn't really scum hunting. Xvart, considering that Ghostlin is attacking BL do you regard one of them to be scum or both?

At the time I wasn't ruling out either as scum, but now that I realized I missed a post by Ghostlin (which made the subsequent posts I referenced make more sense) I think it is likely that Ghostlin is town. I think bunnylover is scum.

Nominate: Raivann

[xvart]

Xvart: I find anyone who gets that het up about personal attacks and suchlike has, in my experience, mostly been town. So, it's going from general experience on the site. No doubt you're about to tell me I'm completely wrong, but eh, what can I say?

No, I'm not going to tell you you are completely wrong or even wrong at all. I just wanted a little background detail on that read.

I also find Benmage's case on Twilight Sparkle underwhelming and un-compelling. And the stuff about the reaction to a fake claim is weak because you are generalizing behavior to simple binary behavior.

[xvart]

Please explain the bolded again. Diddin was Town (Sandor Clegane) in that game. Your teammates were Maclock, danakillsu, and I doubt it.

I misplaced diddin for I doubt it as the other member of my team.

If you think Ghostlin is Town why is your vote still on him as of this post?

Thought I was nominating Ghostlin and voting Bunnylover in the post prior to the one you quoted, when I unnominated after my response to him.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bunnylover

I think all my votes/nominations are in order now.

[xvart]

Was diddin being part of your team nothing to do with your earlier point about the diddin-Raivann interactions?

I was saying that diddin would have probably recognized the opportunity of getting a good bus on Raivann without the ramifications of Raivann actually getting lynched based on him being on my scumteam last game. Since I swapped names it isn't conclusively relative, although it would still be the ideal play for a scum member to get a bus in on a wagon losing momentum.

[xvart]

@Xvart: Reason for switching your nomination from me to placing a vote on me? You nominate me because you think I am scum (I assume), but didn't vote me until recently because I assume you have a bigger scum read. What suddenly spark you to switch?

My original vote was on Ghostlin and my nomination on you. After Ghostlin corrected the basis for my suspicion on him which voided all my suspicion (and made everything he said much more contextually relevant) I unnominated (because I incorrectly thought my previous nomination was on Ghostlin. I thought I was unnominating Ghostlin and my vote was on you, which MoI pointed out to me that I was voting Ghostlin even though I recently said he was town. So then I corrected my vote to reflect where I thought it was already.

[xvart]

Stray thought as I leave: Kast has been really lurky as well but hasn't been mentioned by anyone. If there is only one scum team he is likely a member.

Sotty - I don't understand the logic behind the certainty of being on a single scum team compared to multiple scum teams.

A Sotty, Mina, and hitogoroshi hydra would be MUCH more protown than this.

As has been said, this is a terrible argument. Being pro-town isn't an inherent ability; it is contingent on circumstance and game, especially considering hydras are a whole different ballgame compared to singular play.

Yes, since Benmage asked me to. I have a hard time believing you don't already understand this.

This reads to me as "I don't want to upset big bad gangbusting Benmage and fear his wrath if he turns on me if I don't do what he says."

All the time I have for this thread has been spent reading it. I do want to unvote after Feysal's last post and remove him to the backburner for the present.

Can you enlighten us as to why you want to move Feysal to the backburner, and what specifically about his post made you feel this way?

Something about the whole 1260 - 1262 comments by LMP and shadow are rubbing me the wrong way. Shadow coming out with the "hai vig" comment immediately followed by saying how off base the comment is based on LMPs previous attacks. Shadow gets some scum points regardless of LMPs alignment based on his follow ups.

Feysal seems really flustered that he can't get his precious raivann mislynch today like he and his buddies had planned last night.

MoI- Yeah you said something about me being scared I was on chopping block next.

Raivann stops by to drop in him being a mislynch not so subtly.

I was seeing if you would be willing to bus Song. Your post was what I was thinking too.

It was an elaborate setup?

MoI - Whateves y'all bussed the hell out of me in aCoK. Good job that game btw._

What is the intention of this comment? Is it sarcastic? Because last I checked MoI did win.

-Because I have a town read on them..and am allowing them some allotted time to show enough others that they are town.

So now you want to convince others of your town read whereas before you said it was okay to lynch tomorrow?

--Remind me to come backt o xvart..and post 1186.

Reminder: Come to xvart.

Sorry - a little behind. Will finish catching up tomorrow. 53

[xvart]

I can be a sucker for posts like Mina/Hito's 1305 - 1308. I hadn't really paid any attention to zdenek so I'm glad that was well put together. I think the inconsistencies are the most damning part. I also like LMPs case on Feysal, with the connections to the flipped Starks, which does more for my mojo.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Feysal

Unnominate
Nominate: Bunnylover

I think Setael's 1327 push on Bunnylover is weak and forced, looking only at mannerism and not content. And the follow up discussion about VI/number of games played is just bad. Nitpicking trivial stuff while not voting. If BunnyLover flips scum I'd bet Setael is scum too.

Where's nexus? He's plenty active in the game he's nodding that I'm in.

Terrible jab.

@LMP:

We’re your third biggest scum read. How much of it is associative with Feysal?

Woah. I really don't like this quote. At all. Fishing out relations with other players? Have to think on this some more.

Nothing I say about BL at this point makes it a vote-worthy case

today

, since Benmage has declared he'd govern her lynch. That doesn't stop me from pointing out what I find suspicious and certainly isn't a waste of time when it can be looked back at later.

But it gives you the perfect opportunity to throw in a (weak) bus since it won't go anywhere or do anything because of Benmage's declaration.

I'm in pretty solid agreement with Kast's preferred/acceptable lynch categories. Like almost to the T. Those on the list are acceptable vig targets.

[xvart]

Also, what do you mean by “fishing out relations with other players"?

What I mean is people fishing out how related they are to another person, and what sort of momentum would swing towards them given the relationship they have. It is subtle, but could give scum a notion as to what a safer play would be.

This is to Setael, regarding Bunnylover. You clearly know that BL is on the “no-lynch" list. But then, what of your previous quotes? Nitpicking trivial stuff without voting? Do you think Setael should be voting Bunnylover right now?

I really could care less who is on the holy "no-lynch list". I really didn't pay too much attention to who was actually on the list other than other than ask why Benmage would give someone a pass one day to open them up for fair game the next day. And frankly, I don't like the looming threat of all that is holy Benmage declaring who we can and cannot lynch each and every day. But back to your point, I think your missing the entire point is that Setael came out with all this junk about Bunnylover that could hardly be considered a case or even a merit to lynch. It was basically nonsensical posting about being a VI or not being a VI and asking for an opinion on what the difference is between a new player and a VI. Perhaps I went overboard in saying "why aren't you voting" but I guess I was trying to flush out if it was a weak attack or just fluff posting.

Petyr should be third party. Feysal sounds sincere enough though. Did Feysal switch his vote promptly after zorasters fakeclaim saying LL was Petyr?

ITT Raivann lurks in the shadows waiting for the heat to die down but pops in to suggest that Petyr is third party yet his post is sincere... And shows he isn't reading even the same page that he is posting on.

Like almost to the T.

Really...To A T.??? What do you disagree with?

I would swap Satael and danakillsu and move Zednek down a notch. But all the names I agree with on being in lynchworthy range.

I'm still fine with a Feysal lynch. For the record, Faraday and Seacore actually provided full fake claims in CoK right down to the italic/bold tags in the QT with whatever you asked for for the fake names they provided. I wouldn't even be surprised if Feysal is actually a scum watcher but downgraded his ability so he wouldn't have to generate a fake result. Everyone is screaming (under the false impression that he was a watcher) "WHY DIDN"T YOU TARGET BENMAGE" when the real question should have been why he didn't target hascow.

[xvart]

Forgot to copy this from another tab:

Did you not understand my point? Please explain what about it you find weak and forced. And the "follow up" discussion was an attempt to get a better read on whether she's faking it or not. Your "while not voting" thrown in there is sheeping MoI's argument that was terrible in the first place. In what alternate universe would it make ANY sense for me to be voting BL right now instead of Feysal?

Because it makes no sense. You ISOed her and then went on and on about "why is she playing mafia at all?" There was no point to your observations and then go on to question her about VI vs. new player. You said you were going to ISO bunnylover and you came back with only a slew of quotes where she suggested she wasn't a good player.

[xvart]

Feysal - if multiple people target your target are you told how many people visited your target?

[xvart]

Good game, everyone. I was a little disappointed to be NKed because I didn't get a chance to use my breadcrumb (something I never have done before). When I got my role pm I did what a lot of people did and thought I was on a scum faction and was able to be recruited via scum night actions so to speak (can't remember the name of the role). But then once Faraday pointed out how dumb I am (in kinder words of course ) I realized it would be a pretty solid town breadcrumb (or very elaborate scum fake breadcrumb).

Sers and Ladies of the Court: I apologize for my absence during this trying time of our realm.

If you have been searching for my voice

amidst the chaos you need search no longer. I have just returned from the Caribbean and basking in the

son

for a week, working on a nice tan . I shall begin my read after I respond to about 200+ emails; but in the meantime, for ole CoK lulz:

VOTE: danakillsu

I've loved all these games and look forward to more. Excellent job, mods. I love the flavor, the special day events and game mechanics. And, I agree with Cow that "Holy Cow" was the best title ever (in CoK). Out of curiosity, what was the deliberation behind the two actions you two chose to give Joffery?

[xvart]

2) XVART. I was all looking forward to playing with you too.

Likewise. The gods had a different plan apparently.