The Mafia with the Hydras - Game Over!

[Incognito]

Posting on here because smarg is on PC...

Yos, you probably wouldn't have been lynched, correct, but I can't say I agree with your 95% chance thing on Fate. I don't think I would have voted Final Destination if they claimed Vanilla because I still had then down as town; I can't really see why it would be unlikely that a wagon wouldn't have been able to crop up on someone completely new who is not you or FD. The deadline isn't as close as you're making it out to be.

- Incog

[Incognito]

Like I said earlier, Yos, your repeated blunders cost town the game far more than the one mistake Fate made. I'll have more to say during post-game after my exam.

[Incognito]

@The Fonz: I don't really see how the case on Yos was retarded; Yos had the same exact suspicions from Day 1 pretty much throughout the game even when it was becoming more and more obvious that all of the people he suspected were pretty much obvtown for a variety of reasons. "Consistency is a scum tell" if you will. From my point of view, it looked like a scum Yos just was refusing to give up his mislynch candidates. I kept on citing different reasons for why Yos should change his mind about certain people, particularly Fate on Day 3, but he kept shooting them down over and over again. At that point, I just got frustrated and concluded that Yos was just scum even though my read of him coming into the game was town. And then when I heard Yos' choices for Jailkeeps... woah nelly. It just seemed even more scummy. Maybe since you were scum you couldn't really see why it made sense, but from a town point of view, Yos looked pretty scummy here. The only thing he had in his favor by mass claim time was game PR balance, imo.

Also also, like I mentioned in the thread, smargaret and I for awhile were tossing around the idea of this being a two-scum game. Because of that, I never really bought into the whole game balance argument for Yos being town until Balam actually died as a town Rolecop. It was only at that point that it became more obvious that Yos was probably town.

So why do you think we were killed? Power Role hunting, 'obvtown' status, or reads?

It was almost certainly reads. I kept arguing throughout the game that DaSpot/FD/Unicorns were very likely town because I couldn't see them as scum killing off people who thought they were town like you and Pathetric did. I even made a case on Copper partially based on your suspecting of him but the case never seemed to get much support. I mean, I'd even say that your suspecting of Yos was another part of the reason why I began to think Yos might have been scum, so I don't really get what you're questioning me about here. People like me, FD, DaSpot, and the Unicorns definitely DID look into various reasons why certain people might have been killed.



Incidentally, I too think Yos' reason for thinking FES was town was pretty solid but pretty much everything else FES did should have probably raised a red flag, imo. Ah well.

[Incognito]

Ooh, a dead QT. I gotta read that.

I'm kinda amazed by all the people who are chiming in that they were following along.

[Incognito]

I missed Fonz's and CES's posts somehow.

Doesn't it make more sense to shelve that thought for the day and push Balam/YosCayke only if there's a mislynch and the game doesn't end?

Well, yeah. I really wanted to use Day 4 a bit more appropriately than it was but the Copper lynch happened so quickly that that never really panned out. I kind of thought that by floating the two-scum theory out there, I might get a better view of who might be town based on responses to it but the response was pretty typical for this game: ignore ignore. PC you're just scum. etc.

Fate Day 3 was incredibly scummy. Every single point we made against him was true. He was playing to survive. Every single dodgy thing FES did, Fate did the same or worse.

Eh, still don't think he was. The same exact reason Lord Gurgi gave for me being town (that I was changing my mind about stuff when given new information) pretty much applied to Fate during Day 3 too. That long David Lynch post that I wrote summarized that pretty well, I think. It's ridiculous to say that FES and FD paralleled each other in activity or anything else; you can look at post counts to prove that wrong. FES was just going through the motions; FD was actually scum-hunting.

[Incognito]

@Ether: I don't really see how that's idiotic given the game-state that was going on at the time that was said. I mean, if you were put in the position I was in, do you really think you might have still been reading Yos as town at that point given everything that was going on at that time? It's easy to say Yos was being tunnel-visioned when you know his alignment, but I don't think it's as easy when you're just going off of things based on reads and such.

[Incognito]

I'm biased but I didn't really find any faults with PC's game. Cept in the end with his "well Copper wasn't double-bussed" assumption, but that was past the point of no return anyway (specially after MM's incredibly townie approach to the game and Yos' vote fell on deaf ears and scum we're just waiting to QH).

Even there, I began kicking myself when Mastermate made that amazing post at the start of Day 5; I thought an MM-scum would have just attacked me, but he didn't seem convinced of my guilt, which seemed town. That was the reason I was trying to nudge Yos' vote off of MM so that we could at least discuss things a little. But yeah, it really was the point of no return at that point so oh well.

AND I MAY BE BIASED TOO, but aside from the gambit, I thought FD played pretty well. It's one of those "if only FD claimed Vanilla..." moments though. I really do hope you two realize that the gambit was an awful idea especially considering the inside info you guys had from that AIM conversation; if anything, all of that should have pointed to Balam being definitely town. All that said, you and RayFrost should have went to the mod with that whole thing and asked to be replaced.

Incidentally, I thought the best scum game of the three scums came from Lord Fonzi. I only really started to doubt my read of him when he just said Balam/Yos are town so scum are X, Y, and Z, and he voted Copper immediately after Balam did. It looked lazy to me.

[Incognito]

Yos, I'm sorry man, but all of my reasoning is back there in the thread if you wanna relive it lol. Everything I said there while attacking you was what I believed.

-~-~-~

As far as the hydra discussion goes, I really enjoyed working with smargaret. I didn't know how it would work out because I've never played in a game with her before, so I didn't know how she was as a player thinking-wise, but I think we meshed pretty well. We had a "post whenever we felt like it" type of attitude; we discussed things in the QT but we never felt like we had to wait for input from one another before we posted stuff. I think that worked out pretty well.

I'm fine with posting our QT if she approves also.

[Incognito]

(6:03:34 PM) patrickgower2006: if Incognito was here he'd be calling unicorn practically confirmed town
(6:03:37 PM) patrickgower2006: money in the bank
(6:03:44 PM) CaffieneDeity: Pfft.
(6:03:46 PM) CaffieneDeity: Incognito.

<3 money in the bank.

[Incognito]

lol. I think it was more like this big block of townies versus you and the two scums that defended you and that you also defended.

I have a question: do you still think your N1 choice for Jailkeep was the most optimal?

[Incognito]

I'm kind of tipsy, so I'll try to post this as coherently as I can... I don't even know why I'm writing this.............

Yos, you keep saying stuff like "well, how was I supposed to know she would be NK-ed" in response to the stuff about the JK but that's such a false dilemma like I think I mentioned before. I could shoot back the same question to you: well how did you know the person you jailkept would both a) be scum and b) be the scum who submitted the NK.

IMO, if you have that solid of a town read on someone and you really have nothing else to go on (since it was a Night 1 with no scum flips as of that time) you use the protection aspect of your JK and you protect the person you have a solid town read on just in case they do get chosen for the NK. It's much better to have a townie around in the game saying what they gotta say than one who's just able to post in a dead QT. Whether or not they're a town PR is irrelevant - it's not like that's something you could predict anyway even if you target someone who you think is under the radar scum since, in this case, the person you targeted (my predecessor) was town.

I did a DOUBLE facepalm when I learned that during Night 4, you didn't JK the obvious choice for the NK (DaSpot) AND the scum for whatever reason didn't even choose to roleblock you that Night. I was all like wait... so the scum got a free kill on someone obvtown AND they shut down our other town PR? Wtf? You mentioned that you thought that by not JK-ing DaSpot people might think you were townier, but that was one of those things that had the opposite effect with me.

ANYWAY GOOD GAME.

@TheButtonmen:

Honestly I think hydra games should be done away with. They turn into huge lurker fests and then when they ARE active, they become almost TOO active with gynormous quote walls and shit like that. Not cool. I was in the other hydra game modded by Adel and it was pretty much the same shit.

[Incognito]

I assumed ReaperCharlie was trolling, but I guess he was serious?

RC, you can't accuse practically everyone in the game of being scum and then say OMG GUYS I WAS RIGHT. YOU ALL SUCK FOR NOT LISTENING.

Also, I recall this little exchange we had together:

@Everyone else: Comments on my post #960 please. Coincidence? Give us your opinion please.

In other words: 1 - 2 - 3 scum on the wagon? Why not?

Daspot/Unicorns: I'm thinking at least two of {Lord Fonzi, Yos, FES} is likely scum, but I really don't think all three are. From what I've seen during my time here on MS, it's extremely rare for scum to vote back to back to back like the three of them have done with Final Destination. I don't think I've seen that kind of thing happen once. So while it's certainly possible, I don't think it's likely.

And then of course our enjoyable "IMPORTANT POSTS TO READ."

[Incognito]

I think I know one of 'em also. I wonder if we are thinking of the same one...

By the way, @TheButtonmen: What was the deal with DaSpot's investigation thing? Why did he get an edited result or whatever?