Mini 1170: Nowhereville Mafia '11- Over!

[LordChronos]

/confirm

1. Mafia
2. Depends how busy I am. At least once a day though. Usually more.
3. PST
4. Gut reads are about equal to logic for me. I have found that second guessing myself is bad.
5. WoT = bad. I don't do walls.

[LordChronos]

@The Kool

Please get an avatar. It makes it easier to distinguish your posts from other people's posts. No, I don't find it weird. Specially since Sleepy isn't really random voting.

@Elfen

I loathe random.org.

Vote: Elfen

Way to duck all responsibility for where your vote lands.

[LordChronos]

I have the sudden urge to bandwagon.

I know there is absolutely no reason for it. Yet I want to.

Is there something wrong with me?

What Kalofer said, especially if you vote Elfen.

[LordChronos]

Well I am going to contribute but not much to simple RVS o-o Its a tick to me for some reason, and it usually led people to say

"OMFG ELFEN IS SCUM FOR AGAINST RVS LETS LYNCH HIM"

... that is a normal first day for me ._. and it sucks, no matter what. But most of the time I try to gatehr things from what people say and their reactions.

Note that no one is voting you for not liking RVS. Now try thinking about what you just said. Maybe you will gather something.

[LordChronos]

There you go contradicting yourself again. I'm anti-RVS but I random voted anyway. I'm anti-bw but I went on one anyway.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SleepyKrew

Don't be a slave to site etiquette. Also, I too think you're making a big deal out of nothing much in particular.

Saying that you don't believe in rvs bandwagons then participating in one is not nothing much in particular.

[LordChronos]

Saying that you don't believe in rvs bandwagons then participating in one is not nothing much in particular.

he participated first and said he didn't believe in them later.
Elfen, how many games have you played on this site?

Doesn't matter. Unless you are suggesting that he didn't hold the belief before he said it?

[LordChronos]

Kalofer, sheeping is not pro-town. Declaring that you are gonna lay low is not a town thing to do. Not voting on the first day isn't a town thing to do. Voting someone with a vote while professing anti-bandwagon views is not a town thing to do. You see openness and honesty, I see ducking and hiding and contradictions.

[LordChronos]

Change your vote.

[LordChronos]

Unvote; Vote: Kalofer

Of course I told you to change your vote just to see if you would.

[LordChronos]

I agree with this, but I'm thinking that

Vote:SleepyKrew

is the better play. Overaggressive and pounding on Elfen, who is obviously town and confused, just makes him seem like he is trying to grab an easy lynch here.

I also like LordChronos as scum over cloudocean, but I wouldn't be opposed to either.

Why do you think I'm scum exactly? Also, what do you think of Kalofer?

@Elfen

He said in the post he voted.

@charter

I see your reasoning for SK and Kool, but I think Kalofer is scummier than cloud. Kalofer is sheeping big time and doing his best to suck up to people.

[LordChronos]

Why do you think I'm scum exactly? Also, what do you think of Kalofer?

I personally feel you have been sheeping on Sleepy, and I don't think you're vote on Kalofer is very geniune at all, seems manufactured.

I think Kalofer has a poor way of articulating is opinions but his opinions seems sound and town.

You find voting Elfen just cause I said so while saying Elfen is town to be a town thing to do? And voting him for doing that is manufactured?

Also, how is it possible for me to be sheeping on Sleepy about Elfen (don't see what else it could be) when I started the push against him originally?

[LordChronos]

I think Kalofer was kinda joking with post 220, you challenged him to change his vote, he did so fully intending to ruffle your feathers and see what you'd do. Instead of realizing this as intentional, you're using this as an artificial way to jump on the bandwagon, one that (possibly coincidentally) Skinny Krew started.

Your argument would hold more weight if Kalofer weren't still voting Elfen.

[LordChronos]

I think they two scummiest people here are Kal and Sleepy to be honest with you. Elfen is confirmed town. I think Kool is confirmed scum but at this point I think we can save him for the second lynch if we catch his buddy.

Sleepy seems to be defending Kool(could be his buddy), while Kal is obviously distancing. Not sure which side i want to pick in the end, but I do want a claim

Vote:Kalofer

I'm distancing orrrrrr I'm town and voting for someone who I think is scum, why are you preferring the former over the latter?
As to the claim I'm a VT.

Why the hell did you claim at L-3?

@All

Is anyone else confused about why you would see something you think is someone bread crumbing and then call attention to it as town, especially if that player is not the leading wagon?

I'd be happy with either Quinn or Kal as a lynch today. Kool can wait til we lynch Quinn.

[LordChronos]

why would it matter whether I claim at L-1, 2, 3 or whatever?

Because if you are town you are making it easier for the scum to kill any power roles by claiming earlier than you have to.

[LordChronos]

As a general rule, unless you have to claim to share some kind of information from a night action, don't claim until someone off the wagon who is willing to hammer asks you to.

[LordChronos]

Sick and miserable with a cold and awful allergies, trying to keep up reading wise but don't have energy to get a meaningul post together. Hopefully I feel better tomorrow.

[LordChronos]

Welcome NS.

Replacement Issue: I don't think it makes Quin more likely to be scum. Especially since he left more than one game.

[LordChronos]

But it DOES cut off conversation, intentional or not. Earworm already played the "I can't talk about it so lets just not card" and to be honest it's unfair to really ask him to, but that slot doesn't change because we can't ask new questions. Look, we got some answers, the answers were unacceptable and along with his general scummy behavior before that, it's unexcuseable not to lynch earworm.

True enough, and I agree that Quinn/earworm's slot is quite scummy. I was just saying that the idea that he is more likely to be scum because he replaced out is invalid.

[LordChronos]

Hiiiiii NS,

1) Because it is

MY VIEW

that newbie townies are more open to saying things without knowing what they mean, as being town, they believe they have nothing to hide. People like the kool for example would be scum (again in

MY OPINION

as they posted fluff and quietly crept onto wagons.

1) Do you have anything you could point at to support this view of yours?

@All

Observe Kal and Kool just going with the majority. At least Kool made an effort though. Kal is best lynch for today.

[LordChronos]

do you have anything to support the view that he is scum based on the fact that he contradicted himself?
Well soooorrrrryyyy for agreeing with what everyone else said then, I'm guessing that must definitely mean I'm scum. Geez, vote for me why don't you.

Observe the evasiveness of Kalofer's refusal to answer my question.

[LordChronos]

No I don't have anything to support this view, now tell me if you have anything to support yours.

I don't believe I ever expressed the view that Quin/earworm is scum because of contradictions. Nice attempt to make someone else look bad by making stuff up though.

[LordChronos]

Dude, the line RIGHT after the one you bolded. Starts with "Unless..." And note my vote remains on Ear. Why would I be trying to derail the Ear lynch? I was trying to find out WHY he did something that seems so stupidly scummy to me, not trying to lynch him for it.

Also, most 'blatantly' scummy. Blatantly scummy is often not actually scum. And one blatantly scum post is less scummy than a dozen suspicious posts any day.

This post makes no sense to me at all. Blatantly scummy is not from scum. One Blatantly scummy is less scummy than lots of suspicious stuff? What?

I also agree that while it was stupid of panzer to call for a self-hammer of earworm, we shouldn't lynch him for it.

[LordChronos]

Knowing that you're town sickens me sleepy, it's making me lose hope

Erm, what?

[LordChronos]

*facepalm*, Elfen look, here's how I see things. The scum killed NS because they new he was a townie and furthermore if you think about it he was a townie who contributed absolutely nothing since the beginning of this game (wingdamage, klondi...). So they NKed him so they can keep the spiciness of the discussion going with every townie blaming every other townie as usual but with there being now 2 less townies.
And SK decided to nightkill charter (being a vig... WHICH HE BREADCRUMBED TOO PEOPLE) because he believes that everyone who disagrees with him is definitely scum (look at necessary evil, me and charter as the most obvious examples).

You know, if I was inclined to speculate as to why a townie died, I would not jump immediately to the conclusion that the scum killed him because he was being useless. In my experience scum kills tend to be motivated by one of three things: a) Kill strong town player, b) Kill town player who suspects a scum, c) Kill suspected PR.

---

Sleepykrew doesnt have a killing role. I can confirm that, he did not kill charter

Tending not to believe hiplop given that he started off the day voting SleepyKrew and saying he probably killed charter. No reason to do that if you had this result.

@hip

Why vote SleepyKrew if you had an non-killing role result on him?

---

Wow,

Unvote

Lurker scum? CloudOcean and Chronos have been lurking super hard.

Kalofer seems like he is flailing pretty hard. Just kinda throwing votes and seeing what sticks.(didn't think I'd be agreeing with SK)

Vote:Kalofer

I was sick end of Day 1 and doing stuff with family over Memorial Day weekend. Back and ready to go now though.

---

My vote will be forthcoming based partially on hiplop's answer to my question.

Scumreads: hiplop, Kalofer, Sleepy, Kool
Townreads: Espeonage, CooLskins

[LordChronos]

So, hiplop is totally confused about what his result means (if he got one). Still trying to figure what kind of result you could get on someone that first makes you think they made a night kill and then makes you think they can't have a killing role, but could still be mafia.

Vote: hiplop

[LordChronos]

Unvote; Vote: Kalofer

Seriously?

[LordChronos]

@CooLskins

Kal is sheeping big time and never did explain his comment at the start of the day where he assumed that the night kill hit Nobody Special because he was useless. Out of Kalofer and Kool, I have more confidence in Kal-scum.

@Kool

I don't think it's likely that all three of hip/Esp/SK are scum. One or two out of three, sure. But not all three. Too many people invested in one claim. hiplop's wavering over what exactly his result means is scummy, especially once he went from "SK doesn't have a killing role" to "SK could be mafia just not the one who made the kill". To me it sounds like him trying to cover his backside if we lynch SK and he flips mafia.

[LordChronos]

No, im not setting up a vig, idiot. Don't assume

Im the jailkeeper. I jailkept sleepykrew, and the kill still went through...

See how i had to think about it now?

Now we go for panzer.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Panzer

Um, no, I don't see. If you jailkept SleepyKrew, you couldn't possibly have thought he made a kill, given what jailkeeping someone does. I also don't see how that means he can't have a killing role. It just means he didn't make either kill last night.

[LordChronos]

My reservation with Kool-scum is that his current wagon is comprised of scummy players. Right now, he's got cloud, SK, and Kalofer voting for him, and all of them are scummy.

[LordChronos]

Well, that's an uninteresting claim. You guys sure you wouldn't rather lynch Kool or Kal today instead? I'd rather lynch one them, who is actively scummy, than lynch cloud, who's mostly just lurking.

[LordChronos]

So, I'm a VT. Elfen's up next.

As far as hiplop vs. Panzer goes, I'm leaning towards lynching hiplop instead of Panzer. hiplop's claim has always been weak anyway, and it's certainly not unheard of to hold off counterclaiming someone. Happened in a different mini that I finished recently. Scum fakeclaimed cop, real cop counterclaimed the next day, because he had more chance to be useful that way. I can see how Panzer would think that in this situation as well.

Also, it's worth noting that the instant hiplop claimed JK, Panzer called the claim bullshit and voted him. Not before the JK claim, but immediately after.

@Panzer

I don't suppose you have a breadcrumb?

[LordChronos]

woah woah woah, what we're doing a mass role claim?? Was this decided on?? Does everyone agree with doing this cause I havent read anything about a mas claim yet??

But if we are, of well :/

Claim: VT, no power roles

It's kind of irrelevant now, since CooLskins is the only one who hasn't claimed. I think.

[LordChronos]

dont you guys find it suspicious, that kool voted right after Panzer? in lylo, he immediatly voted, both of them. Unless they're masons (which the clearly aren't) they couldnt have possibly come up with a coherent idea. I cant believe you guys are belieivng such obvious scummery

Defending a likely townie, is somethng that all townies should try to do, yes.

I had no idea that "right after" meant several posts, eight hours, and one vote and then unvote from someone else. Why can't two people vote at a similar time without being scumbuddies again?

And your insistence that you claimed because a wagon was forming on you is laughable given that you claimed right after the wagon on you dissolved. And your softclaim didn't even clear Sleepy at all.

[LordChronos]

so i softclaimed to tell them off

Nice move. Also, way to ignore the rest of my post.

[LordChronos]

Fine. I'll ask again. Why does two people voting the same person within a short time period when that person was just counterclaimed make them scum?

[LordChronos]

In general, no it doesnt make it scum. Think larger though, kool was majorly targetted yesterday for bbeing super scummy. He proved it tenfold by bandwaggoning so hard, in lylo.

I dont see why you guys believe obvscum panzer. His claim makes no sense. No breadcrumbs, day after, obscure role, targetted directly for me, waited until LYLO.

seriously, think for yourselves

I don't see why anyone believes obvscum you. Your claim makes no sense. No breadcrumbs, obscure role, botched claim, claimed to save your neck when no votes were on you.

As I said earlier, sometimes waiting to CC is the right move. See this game : https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=17166

[LordChronos]

dont you guys find it suspicious, that kool voted right after Panzer? in lylo, he immediatly voted, both of them. Unless they're masons (which the clearly aren't) they couldnt have possibly come up with a coherent idea. I cant believe you guys are belieivng such obvious scummery

Defending a likely townie, is somethng that all townies should try to do, yes.

Defending one of your town reads is almost never townish. The only possible exception is lylo. I have yet to see a time when defending a townie by claiming a power role (soft or full) is beneficial to the town. Link me to a game where it has and prove me wrong.

The only thing that your defending SK did was let the scum know that you had a power role (this is naturally assuming that you are town), and that sk wasn't the sk. It did nothing but give scum information. Actually at this point an sk flip would have been tones better then that lurker we lynched yesterday.

Preemptive response: Yes, I think defending other people is scummy.

Wait, an Sleepy flip would have been tons better than lynching the serial killer? Even if he was town?

[LordChronos]

nice find chronos. Explain why keeping the SK alive is a good thing Coolskins. now

Buddying is not cool.

[LordChronos]

Also, people were after Sleepy for more than just that. For example, his willingness to lynch someone he was adamant was town when there was time to do otherwise.

[LordChronos]

Ok, it makes me nervous that Elfen put hiplop to L-1 immediately after you voted CooLskins.

[LordChronos]

Scum kill has been roleblockable in every game I've played with a town roleblocker or jailkeeper. So I wouldn't be surprised if it is roleblockable here.

[LordChronos]

SK, you do realize, the only way i can be scum to these people, is if you are scum. You know your alignment, dont be an idiot and actually think for yourself

This is exactly why sk shouldn't have hammered.

I don't follow you here.

[LordChronos]

Probably double voter. Grats to scum on a well-played game.