Open 295 -- Island Paradise Mafia -- Game Over

[farside22]

Sorry I pressed sumbit.

The short version is that Fitz first of all is staying neutral willing to lynch anyone with little to null reason that I can find.
He then takes only the day 2 vote count at the end of the day, when again he has been suspicious of Jora since day 1, but instead focus's on just the wagon when in another game he was town I linked here, he voted for someone he was suspicious of that was off the wagon.
Finally I do believe scum don't do reads because then they have to commit to said read. Fitz giving no reads leaves him in the clear to be clean since he is so wishy washy when he does do a read on a player.

[ToastyToast]

ChannelDelibird - 4 - ToastyToast, DeathRowKitty, farside22, Magua
ToastyToast - 3 - yabbaguy, }|{opa, ChannelDelibird
DeathRowKitty - 2 - havingfitz, Sundy

Havingfitz switched to me before CDB self-hammered.

Anyways, assuming that we have two mafia left, there is at least one scum on the CDB wagon. We know Magua was a doc, and I know what I am. So that leaves DRK and farside as options for a lynch today. DRK's lynch was present D2 but it was also an unpopular one. Its possible to have one scum on the DRK wagon, of course, but only as a means to look better by distancing from the lynch, and, perhaps a little distancing from a scum-buddy as well.

Nonetheless, i would say that there is at least one scum on my wagon as well (at least, more likely than a scum on DRK's wagon). This leaves me with the options of yabbaguy and jora. You all know my opinion on yabbaguy, but the CDB flip came as a surprise to me and I feel that jora has snuck under the radar. He certainly is not the most townie player, but

something

is suspicious about that slot. All the back in D1 he was role-fishing for a cop. he hops around with arguments based on gut (which is incredibly hard to believe in a game that I have almost no opinion on whatsoever).

Conclusion: I think jora is scum. I think its with either farside or DRK.

[ToastyToast]

Oh,

Vote:}|{opa

[Jora]

*facepalm*

[Jora]

Sorry, I have not tme to finish editting this case.... just hope you'll get it. It's very important!

The two of most possible setups are:
DV**TTT = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather
DV*TTTT = 2 Goons + Godfather, Serial Killer (Doc Bypass, Block Bypass, Kill Immune)

We have no SK last night, we have an explanation for 1st day two kills (yeah, that was vigging) = we know for sure that SK not exists.
Also, we knew Magua/ZF/... Doc flip.
How much does that brings? A LOT!



DeathRowKitty

farside22 i
havingfitz i

Sundy

ToastyToast i

yabbaguy

}|{opa i

- Yes, what did you expected? I've made all this case, I must be town. Which of you, lazy bastards, did somethig as good as this awesome case so far?


Scums themselfs doesn't knew about SK before D2. Therefore they was frightened on D1 only.
In a game with mafia team and a serial killer, an evil player who knows he can be killed by the other team will tend to avoid a leadership position, and avoid showing himself to be among the best players, because he doesn't want to be killed. He'll be more under the radar - he doesn't have to be the quietest...he just needs to be less aggressive and less of a threat than some of the other players.
That's called Cerwyn's Bible.


In D2 scums already got that here should not be a SK. Who was happy about this?

yabbaguy

>guilty - his posting style became much more intent in D2

Sundy

>guilty - his posting style became much more intent in D2
farside22>rather innocent - was on top before D2 and nothing had changed
havingfitz>rather innocent - was on top before D2 and nothing had changed

Next question of the day: who was healed by Magua/ZF?

}|{opa (me)>healed? Yes, I'd like to think so....
"ZF's last D1 posts: he went heavy on me ", "then suddently->get off me"
Magua: "Jora - Really liked Jora D1."
Oh, he healed me, how sweet, isn't it obv? hurray!

But just for fun lets look at ToastyToast.
TT>healed? Looks like - ZF started to protect him.
OR NOT ZF:"I am very pro-TT lynch."
>OR yes?

Magua: "So ZeroFang was right on a lot of things. But he was drop dead wrong on ToastyToast. So wrong it hurts my head."
Magua: "I think Toasty is town. I thought Toasty was town before his VT claim, and his claim didn't change my townread on him."
Magua: "I'm *really* not interested in voting Toasty."
SUCK MY DUCK! NOOOOOOO.... ZF WAS HEALING TT!!!!!

And there was no NK. Therefore Toasty is Probable Innocent.

I'd say Nearly Confirmed Innocent, taking into account all the data in this post.

TT voters were:

yabbaguy

, }|{opa, cjdrum
Looks like yabbascum called Doc out of his shell.

Second was scum probably here:
cjdrum - 2 - havingfitz,

DeathRowKitty

Sundy - 1 - farside22

yabba see ZF not voting, he investigating:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p2984369
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p2986335

So,
ZF faking like this: "I am very pro-TT lynch." Then he goes..... goes..... and missed his hammer. What a shame!

I know, this my postdoesn't looks good either.

But I didn't knew that TT's had been shot by yabba. And then yabba tried to lynch him to see who was Doc.
And, [just go look at the D2 and watch and you'll see] If you would be scum, and you shot TT who somehow survived this attempt....

clearly ZF was obv Doc.

farside22> probably innocent caseX2

farside22 unvotes, goes Sundy
OR NOT
"Actually since no one seems to respond to the case and ZF has some people's attention and I find TT more null then scum. vote: ZF"

yabbaguy&Sundy = OBVSCUM caseX2

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p2987543
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p2989777

havingfitz>is probaply innocent caseX2

Look carefully: all the targets are confirmed/nearly confirmed
he unvoted cjdrum

Votecount 2.07

ToastyToast

- 4 - }|{opa, cjdrum, ZeroFang, yabbaguy

cjdrum

- 2 - DeathRowKitty, ToastyToast

ZeroFang

- 2 - Sundy, farside22

Not Voting: havingfitz

Then he goes DRK
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3002139

DeathRowKitty>probable guiltyX2

He was only one who is not confirmed off wagon.

Votecount 1.15

TheJakalope

- 6 - yabbaguy, farside22, havingfitz, ToastyToast, ZeroFang, Sundy
Sundy - 2 - DeathRowKitty,

cjdrum

yabbaguy - 1 -

TheJakalope

ZeroFang - 1 -

}|{opa

Also, he had maked 2 BIG cases on me and cjdrum. Both on those whom I'm know to be town.

Fixed url tags. ~~NS

[farside22]

Jora: I honestly thought reading Magua's and ZF's post that I was the one protected. It's WIFOM, but ZF called me town and came in on day 1 reading fitz as scum with me town.
Day 2 not much from him, but at the end of the day magua has me at the top and called me super town.

Farside asking for an extension while being on the leading wagon, and farside grilling me about being on the same wagon she's on are both super town-tells for her, btw.

p-Edit: BURN!

I don't see a doc who protected a player voting for them. TT is out of that in my mind.
This comment from Magua it's hard to say if Jora was protected

Jora - Really liked Jora D1. Really did. Kind of losing it near the end, though; impatient? D2 has been nowhere near as good. Obviously demotivated, there's none of that spark from D1. Still, with both yabbaguy and CDB, game would be over long before I would get around to voting Jora.

[havingfitz]

Fitz: The point is in the game I linked you noted that scum tend to go on town wagons' but attacked a player that was not on the wagon at the time you had a scum read on.
This game your scum read is all null

That is a huge difference. I see you pretty much ignored everything I wrote and snipped it down to one comment along with an almost OMGUS attitude.....so everyone that has attacked you is scum......oh wait except Yabba who did that day 1.

farside, the only point you made with your accusations towards me were that I was lying. You quoted me saying this:

I usually assume there is scum on town wagons. It's not always that way but more often than not it is. Especially when it happens more than once in a game. You don't?

...to which all you responded with was this:

Would you care to explain why in this game where you were town you did not then?

...followed by an accusation of me lying and a vote on me.

That is not the case. I said I tend to believe scum will usually be found on mislynches and then you link to a game where I vote for someone who was on the only mislynch in the game. So WTF are you trying to accuse me of? How am I lying? Tell me where I lied. And to to compare what happens in two completely different games with a completely different player set (other than myself and Sundy) and make an accusation of lying based on actions or opinions which have been quantified by 'typically' and 'usually' is ridiculous and extremely scummy. It is reaching for a case in the worst way. If even one person in here thinks your accusation of me lying with regard to my 'usual' opinion that scum can be found on mislynches (which is by no means an earth shattering revelation) I would love to hear their thoughts on the matter.

Your accusation is crap and for you to continue to push it and concoct some sort of scenario around it where you think it applies is terrible.

You later go on to whinge about me having null reads. Newsflash...being suspicious of everyone is not a null read. And I am by no means going to apologize for not having any clear frontrunners for scum (no longer the case BTW) or town in a game that is dragging ass as bad as this one has. And then you have this pearl:

but instead focus's on just the wagon when in another game he was town I linked here,

he voted for someone he was suspicious of that was off the wagon.

This is a lie. In the game you link everyone to...I vote for Nacho. The wagon which Nacho was not was a scum wagon wagon. Nacho's player slot was on the Day 1 mislynch which is consistent with my feelings on the subject and not in agreement with your comments on it.

VOTE: farside22

In case you missed it. It's called lynching all liars.

[farside22]

Ah I missed the player in question flipped mafia. That was why you were off that wagon.

Can you explain your lack of reads in this game and how it is you have no scum read on anyone and mostly vote either OMGUS votes or limp on wagon's already formed?

[havingfitz]

Ah I missed the player in question flipped mafia. That was why you were off that wagon.

Oh...you were wrong you say? Why does your backpeddling not come with an unvote? What is your case on me now? Stating it would be nice.

Can you explain your lack of reads in this game and how it is you have no scum read on anyone and mostly vote either OMGUS votes or limp on wagon's already formed?

I have had reads towards some people and they have changed or not changed ass the game has progressed. I had a scum read on you most of D1 and the only reason I left you was because my vote on you was getting absolutley no support from others and my vote appeared to be worthless where it was at. I have expressed opinions/suspicions towards }|{opa and DRK. I expressed a town read on Magua's slot. I have not had a lack of reads in this game. My problem has been a lack of support for those I do suspect or not enough separation between my reads. Everyone has been lumped closely together. Looking back over my earlier read on you...looking at VCs and you recent effort to build a wagon on me based on your lie, not mine, has me comfortable with my vote back where it belongs. And none of my votes are OMGUS. Misreps are scummy too.

[farside22]

Fitz:
Did this post I make just get put on ignore by you post 699
That is why I did not unvote.


So you give up pushing wagon's based on what others feel, you still think I'm scummy even though I had a town read on DRK and yet you didn't put it together and instead back off and go nowhere.
Your reasoning for why DRK and Jora scummy is as allusive as my 3 year's verbal skills.

Fixed url tag. ~~NS

[farside22]

mod please fix the link in post 709

[havingfitz]

Fitz:
Did this post I make just get put on ignore by you post 699
That is why I did not unvote.

No... saw it. What's your point? Your vote on me was based on your false accusation that I had lied. I can give plenty of examples where I have expressed reads on others. It's a problem of too many to choose from. Did you not happen to see where I addressed your questions regarding my reads? Here's a refresher since you seemd to have ignored it:

I have had reads towards some people and they have changed or not changed as the game has progressed. I had a scum read on you most of D1 and the only reason I left you was because my vote on you was getting absolutley no support from others and my vote appeared to be worthless where it was at. I have expressed opinions/suspicions towards }|{opa and DRK. I expressed a town read on Magua's slot. I have not had a lack of reads in this game. My problem has been a lack of support for those I do suspect or not enough separation between my reads. Everyone has been lumped closely together. Looking back over my earlier read on you...looking at VCs and you recent effort to build a wagon on me based on your lie, not mine, has me comfortable with my vote back where it belongs. And none of my votes are OMGUS. Misreps are scummy too.

---

So you give up pushing wagon's based on what others feel, you still think I'm scummy even though I had a town read on DRK and yet you didn't put it together and instead back off and go nowhere.
Your reasoning for why DRK and Jora scummy is as allusive as my 3 year's verbal skills.

And a nice misrep. I don't vote based on what other people think. But I'm also not bothered switching from my top suspect who is garnering absolutely no other support to someone else who I at least have a modicum of suspicion towards. And unless your 3 yr old is a child prodigy (doubtful) I'll note your ad-hom on my earlier suspicions towards }|{opa and/or DRK. Ad-homs are scummy because they are not based on what is actually taking place in a game {like your lie...errrrrrr, backpedaled oversight] and only serve as a baseless attempt to undermine the play of a player in the eyes of others.

[farside22]

Everything is a to you misrep? Seriously anything anyone has said is either scummy (because how dare someone accurately describe your game thus far) or everything I stated is a misrep.
Well guess what bub, ZF thought the same fucking thing day 1 I had and he was town.

Your reason's for find DRK and Jora scummy is baseless.
Your case is what again?

Also reading your post above means hey I don't have to explain my vote to anyone because I find everyone suspicious is a weak attempt to allow you to vote anyone for any reason.

[havingfitz]

Everything is a to you misrep?

Could you solve this word jumble. Is there a question or an accusation in there somewhere?

Seriously

anything anyone has said is either scummy

(because how dare someone accurately describe your game thus far) or

everything I stated is a misrep.

The items in bold are misreps.

Well guess what bub, ZF thought the same fucking thing day 1 I had and he was town.

Honey...what did ZF think? And what does the fact he was town matter? Town can be wrong. I'm proof of that in all but three of the games I have played here. How does the fact I never voted him and he never voted me factor into your "and he was town" position? Do you recall the fact you voted him? He was town...that was scummy of you.

Your reason's for find DRK and Jora scummy is baseless.
Your case is what again?

You can ISO me and find my case on both of them. Do you want to justify all of your previous votes as well? You've voted almost everyone in the game at one point or another so you don't appear to have any firmer reads on people than I do. And I'm not voting either of them at the moment so what is your point? You're just practicing your typing skills...aren't you.

Also reading your post above means hey I don't have to explain my vote to anyone because I find everyone suspicious is a weak attempt to allow you to vote anyone for any reason.

I explain every vote I make which is more than most people can say. Ex...using a false pretense to vote someone and then leaving the vote after the false pretense is revealed.

[ToastyToast]

Guys, don't turn this into a 1v1. I don't want to lynch either of you. jora, your case is interesting. the only thing i don't understand is how you know yabba was the person to shoot me. Explain that plz. Magua's crumbs are noticeable, and attempting to kill me makes sense. I was staying under the radar, pushed a few cases that would point to either cjdrum or you as scum.

I'd choose DRK over the others though, for me that would clear farside as town. If DRK flips scum, I definitely see sundy as scum as well.

[farside22]

This is the only "case" I see you put together for Jora

Don't like giving town reads so I won't. I didn't have any suspicions towards }|{opa until his DRK GF post/Star vote. DRK seems to be overreacting IMO to a lot of people's comments and if it were not for the aforementioned }|{opa suspicion I would probably put my vote on him [DRK]. So I'll FOS DRK.
}|{opa however gets this: VOTE: }|{opa

If you believe there is something I missed please post the link to your "case" on Jora.

And yet for some reason I have yet to understand from a single post you state thus:

farside...my suspicions of }|{opa and DRK are totally independant of each other. I can and do suspect them both. I just find the suspicion I hold of }|{opa to be more significant att than DRK.

Why is total missing from this post on why one is more scummy then the other.

As for DRK

OK...catching up. Here are my random thoughts as I read through.

-DRK for accusing Sundy on NK comment (TT did too??)
-cj for assuming Vig killed andrew. NK joy tell. Playfully defensive at RVS 's DRK reprimand.
-DRK pushing Sundy votes for NK comment. (bad)
-DRK overexagerrating animorph's "too early" for serious votes comment. (bad)
-DRK accusing anomorph of defending Sundy (bad)
-DRK...why is Sundy scummy if not for analyzing the nk when he commented on them?
-}|{opa Do not agree that andrew is necessarily a goon but do agree he was most likely killed by an sk.
-cj appears to be playing obtuse and is overly peppy.
-Posts 73 DRK tells people to not speculate on setup and then in the next post (post 74) he speculates on setup .
-Agree with }|{opa's post 75.
-DRK (who earlier argues the likelihood of a Vig killing N0) states he wouldn't expect a one-shot vig to shoot night 1.
-TT is deadon in post 92. }|{opa's statement that DRK is a GF and subsequent vote on someone with 2 posts who, other than the fact they have only made two posts, has done nothing suspicious.
-}|{opa pushing DRK as a good cop lynch. Why keep mentioning a cop

Yet you say this


DRK appears to have decided on the useless to town option....nice. zzzzzzzzzz

DRK seems to have no problem posting in other games. If I thought DRK was scum I would vote for DRK but I'm not convinced. DRK!!!! Please replace out! arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh......

Yes I find soooooooo much strong reasoning for why you find DRK scummy.

Could you solve this word jumble. Is there a question or an accusation in there somewhere?

Yup. I'm sure some who wants to do an iso will see how often you throw up the word misrep you completely lose the meaning and I think it's the only thing you can use to make someone's acquisitions look like crap so you can keep skating by.

Oh lets count each time fitz used that as a defense then shall weeeeeeee

All under Iso Post #:

16
@farside...there is nothing hypocritical about my voting }|{opa and suspecting DRK. Feel free to disagree of course but IMO you are misrepresentng my vote as something it is not.

21

Your reasoning is crap and is a misrepresentation of my vote on }|{opa. 1-2 suspicions is perfectly fine to place a vote...especially early in the game.

post 22


Other various reasons? You mean "'not reading" [misrep] and "fluff" [opinion...misrep]. Mmmmmmkay.

Also on post 22

For continuing to push a non existent case and misrepping my actions...which are there for all to see.

Post 25

You misrepped it by calling my vote hypocritical and opportunistic.

Post 26

(A bit later)...you say "saying your points on DRK are minor because Jora thought DRK was the GF and may have been trying to signal the cop and didn't vote DRK. Is this correct?" Because? No....compared to. My points against DRK were minor. But for }|{opa's actions/posts I would have voted for DRK. But I felt that }|{opa was more suspect <-------SEE!...hence the difference between my DRK vote and }|{opa's ST vote (IMO) and therefore not hypocritical. I repeated my self because there was nothing more to say about my vote on }|{opa but you continue to ask for more. A simple ISO on me would have saved a few pages of reiteration.

But at least you are showing your misrep skills.

Post 31

You keep making blatant misrepresentations of my actions. Then I explain why they are blatent misrepresentations...and you continue to make blatant misrepresentations of my actions. Then I explain why they are blatent misrepresentations...and you continue to make blatant misrepresentations of my actions. Then I explain why they are blatent misrepresentations...and you continue to make blatant misrepresentations of my actions.

There is at least 1 or 2 more while arguing with me. Now arguing with ZF

Post 52

One thing I noticed in your post on me is it has a few misrepresentations (underlined) in it and overexaggerates (in bold) a bit.

Also on post 52

It "seems?" Way to take a stance (btw...why no vote atm?). Nowhere do I say I'm voting farside for disagreeing with me. I am voting farside for the same reasons she was voting me (opportunistic + accusations of poor reasoning) and FMPOV, misrepresentations and pushing the aforementioned non-existent case. Do those reasons equate to "simply for disagreeing?"

Continue on post 52

Also...I do not appreciate you cutting my quote in half in effect creating a misrep. I said "don't ask me for more reasons becuase the ones mentioned above are all I have atm. If you have two or three reasons for voting for someone and someone else keeps asking you for reasons above and beyond those two or three reasons....you can not give them more reasons if you do not have more reasons to give!

And finally

Post 94
Misreps are scummy too.


Yup attacking with the same word over and over to the point it lost all meaning and people's eyes are now bleeding from this post

[yabbaguy]

Request replacement

I am being a debilitating component of this game with my severe inactivity. Sorry all, but my personal project is taking up far too much of my free time. I'll be back in the Mafia forums soon, don't worry.

[Nobody Special]

Quilford replaces yabbaguy effective immediately; Quilford has limited access until Thursday.

[havingfitz]

TT...I've missed the part where someone shot you. Could you post a link or something that clarifies what you are talking about?

farside...I'm not really in the mood to continue this debate and propagate a wall post war. If there was something in your wall post above that you wanted me to respond to feel free to make a more succinct post and I will consider it. Others can weigh in if they see fit and I'll be happy to discuss further with them. Not so much with you as I think you are scum.

[ToastyToast]

TT...I've missed the part where someone shot you. Could you post a link or something that clarifies what you are talking about?

farside...I'm not really in the mood to continue this debate and propagate a wall post war. If there was something in your wall post above that you wanted me to respond to feel free to make a more succinct post and I will consider it. Others can weigh in if they see fit and I'll be happy to discuss further with them. Not so much with you as I think you are scum.

jora is suggesting that Magua's slot protected me the night we had no kill, which is why he was strongly against my lynch

[havingfitz]

jora is suggesting that Magua's slot protected me the night we had no kill, which is why he was strongly against my lynch

Uhhh...no. I haven't looked over all of ZF's D2 posts yet but it didn't take me long to get to this one:

I am very pro-TT lynch. He has few reasons for his votes, they're flakey, and he's spent a great deal defending himself as opposed to actually building cases (or even worse, turning people's suspicions of him into cases, i.e. yabba). I'd say I'm 65% certain he's scum.

I'd say that rules you and Sundy out ass potential protects from ZF on N1.

[havingfitz]

ass=as. Also...inadvertantly left out the part of ZF's post (ISO 20 iirc) where he says Sundy is his #2 suspect.

[ToastyToast]

65%? That sure is a high percentage, isn't it? (sarcasm) not to mention that ZF was nonetheless not very vocal on my lynch. But that is besides the point. I am no suggesting said theory as fact, but questioning why jora thinks yabba attempted this failed kill on myself, and not someone else here.

[havingfitz]

Upon further review of posts by ZF and Magua after N1 I have to think if the N1 kill was prevented by the Doc...that it was on either farside or myself. I don't think it would be me...so that leaves farside. While Magua was a fan of TT, ZF had him [TT] as his #1 suspect and even put a vote on him towards the end of D1. While both ZF and Magua both list me as town....Magua lists farside at the top of his town list and states there is no way (or something similar) he will vote farside. Therefore, I think if there was a Doc protect resulting in no N1 NK...that the protect would have been on farside. As much as it pains me....

UNVOTE: farside. Vote TBD.

[Jora]

Ok, it could be farside. However, I still think it was TT.
The reason why I thought Yabba shot him is his vote on TT. Logic: scums want to unmask the Doc, so one of them vote the target.
It could be farside, though. In that case I really don't know what made Magua's head hurt about ZF's vote on TT.

Anyways, I really should UNVOTE: , I see a lot of reasons to support Farside:
VOTE: Sundy