Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame

[LimMePls]

Seriously, SGR is right. Not enough joking here.

UNVOTE x13, VOTE: Pine

Why so Serious?

Vote: WrathChild

For trying to dissuade votes based on actions and instead push for RVS. The faster RVS dies the better.

[LimMePls]

^^

Anecdotal at best.

[LimMePls]

For every instance you can provide me of catching scum during RVS I'm sure I can produce at least one of a mislynch being driven out of RVS. The faster we're arguing over game relevant posts the better.

[LimMePls]

No, really, most games, when I catch scum I find them in the first few pages. You yourself have personal experience with my RVS skillz.

I'm not insinuating that RVS cannot lead to scum lynches, I'm saying that RVS is less optimal than non-RVS, and if the game is moving from RVS -> Non-RVS, attempts to halt that progress are anti-town. Also, once again your argument is anecdotal.

[LimMePls]

Also, I also gotta reveal my reads, cause all the cool kids are or will be doing it.

Town-read on WC and Icey.
Scum-read on LynchMePlz
Way-Too-Serious-Read on Pine

This is a scummy post. Is having a scum read while parking your vote on RVS something you think is town? A way to serious read means what exactly?

Hey Gandalf, where are your breadcrumbs, bro?

Breadcrumb hunting?

I would like you to explain all of those reads. Also, I'd like you to explain why exactly you are hunting for a players breadcrumbs. My only concern is that I'm not sure scum would be this ridiculously obvious. Looks "too scummy to be scum", but I hate those arguments. I think you're the best place for a vote now.

I have a simple question, does everyone have at least one damaging ability?

My role PM suggests everyone does.

Only answer if yes, obviously.

Can you explain what possible good this fishing does? How is "only answer if yes" in any way helpful, since those who don't answer are saying no!?

Unvote
Vote: SGR

[LimMePls]

Real talk: I wonder how much of this BW is people RL'ing for the sake of a RL, people actually thinking I'm scum, people wanting to see me dead cause I am annoying and people taking this as a chance to go for the easy target.

Why are you "the easy target"?

[LimMePls]

UNVOTE: Chesskid<--RVS. Getting a (very) mild Townread from Chess.
VOTE: ABR

Do you often qualify your unvotes like this? Why was this explanation necessary?

[LimMePls]

You look like you're trying too hard.
Pine is taking this way too serious.

How are these two things different? Please explain THOROUGHLY.

[LimMePls]

ABR is town.

[LimMePls]

VOTE: Soben
gandalf and WC and ABR are all probably town.

ABR, why would you advocate what is essentially a form of massclaiming in a game where we have been specifically told by the moderator that massclaiming will be harmful?

Why vote Soben, a player who has yet to post, given that things have happened thus far in thread?

So is Icey.

Unvote
Vote: Icey
Unvote
Vote: SGR

[LimMePls]

You look like you're trying too hard.
Pine is taking this way too serious.

How are these two things different? Please explain THOROUGHLY.

You're trying hard to look Townie.
Pine was taking small stuff way too seriously.

One involves being scummy, the other is null.

I really can't explain you in other terms.

You are failing to explain how my behavior is the one and Pine's is the other, when we were essentially saying the exact same thing. In fact:

No, really, most games, when I catch scum I find them in the first few pages. You yourself have personal experience with my RVS skillz.

I'm not insinuating that RVS cannot lead to scum lynches, I'm saying that RVS is less optimal than non-RVS, and if the game is moving from RVS -> Non-RVS, attempts to halt that progress are anti-town. Also, once again your argument is anecdotal.

This articulates my feelings on the matter quite well. RVS can be useful in lieu of real discussion, but it pales in comparison to matters of substance. And it seems to me that we've already got some things to go on, like Icey's bizarre claim.

We're literally arguing the exact same thing even by Pine's own admission. In one instance you call it "trying to hard to look Townie" and in the other it's "taking small stuff way too seriously" and you are assigning different levels of scumminess to them. Exactly what in my behavior is 'trying hard to look townie' and how exactly is it different from Pine?

[LimMePls]

With no associative tells to be established how can you say someone is town but still possibly third party?

Roles and factions: This is a rather vanilla-less setup. All factions have a winnable condition. If a win condition is achieved, and it doesn't directly interfere with the win condition of another faction, the game will keep on. For example, if the win condition of a player is to get certain player lynched, should that player achieve that condition (and no other win condition is achieved at the same time), the game can keep on. There is at least one town faction and one scum faction. Town faction is called Sorcerers, while scum faction is called Wizards. Other factions may exist, and they may have wizards, sorcerers, or other classes.

The OP implies multiple third party roles in the setup, Iceys win condition could simply be to recieve x amount of votes during the game thus although I don't see him as scum I have no reason to vote him.

I feel there's some disconnect in reading Icey as Town, realizing that if Icey is indeed some third party with an alt win condition it won't preclude town from a win, and then not following your Town read of Icey by following their plan.

+1

[LimMePls]

@Soben: You know that I'm scum from one post, namely a RVS post? You know... there are two kinds of people in this world: those that can extrapolate data from inconclusive information and...

+scum points for over defensiveness. Also note the insinuation that we can't know RBT is scum from one RVS post, not that we can't know RBT is scum at all.

[LimMePls]

LMP
Why the vote against Wrath, when SGR calls the starting 'attacks' as too serious, suggests to look at somebody else by asking others who that player should be, to suggest Chesskid eventually, whom get finally a vote after some posts from SGR. He went back into the RVS and wanted others to get us out of the RVS. All his flip-flopping would be good for a cheerleading squad ._.

Your question confuses me. I voted WC because he made a post that was essentially "OMG stay in RVS!"

[LimMePls]

Dryfit and LMP
There has been another player in this game who had somebody mentioned as scummy, but who has kept his RVS vote at that point. Why no mention about this player?

Cause I haven't seen it? Care to share?

[LimMePls]

LMP: Are you scum?

Nope.

[LimMePls]

LynchMePlz voted here, with remarks on how my FoS'es are inconsistent or whatever, they aren't, I think that he knew at this point this BW was indeed picking steam, and he could safely vote me. The only person I'm almost 100% sure is Mafia in my BW.

I did not say anything about your FOS'es being "inconsistent" when I voted you. Here is exactly what I said:

Also, I also gotta reveal my reads, cause all the cool kids are or will be doing it.

Town-read on WC and Icey.
Scum-read on LynchMePlz
Way-Too-Serious-Read on Pine

This is a scummy post. Is having a scum read while parking your vote on RVS something you think is town? A way to serious read means what exactly?

Hey Gandalf, where are your breadcrumbs, bro?

Breadcrumb hunting?

I would like you to explain all of those reads. Also, I'd like you to explain why exactly you are hunting for a players breadcrumbs. My only concern is that I'm not sure scum would be this ridiculously obvious. Looks "too scummy to be scum", but I hate those arguments. I think you're the best place for a vote now.

I have a simple question, does everyone have at least one damaging ability?

My role PM suggests everyone does.

Only answer if yes, obviously.

Can you explain what possible good this fishing does? How is "only answer if yes" in any way helpful, since those who don't answer are saying no!?

Unvote
Vote: SGR

So why are you lying?

Later on I pointed out that your claimed reads of me and Pine are wildly different despite the fact that our positions were identical. You still have offered no satisfactory explanation for that.

Your analysis of your own wagon is a) self-serving and b) complete crap.

[LimMePls]

Just so I'm clear on this:

After that, you entered the frame, voted WC for still trying to go for RVS (Curiously ignoring me, even though I was quoted by WC on the post you quoted doing the exact same thing) and started with the whole "BOO, RVS SUCKS". I didn't suspect Pine as much because Pine agreed with you but didn't seem that bothered about it, plus, he commented before he didn't mind RVS and serious talk "intersphering", so I saw that more as a null-tell than a scum-tell, which is what I saw on you.

Hope that explains it.

You have a "too serious" read on Pine. {Editor's note: WTF does that even mean? How the fuck is that even noteworthy?} Then I make a post that you decide is scummy. Then Pine agrees with me verbatim. Then you post your reads, and Pine is "too serious" and I'm "scum". And you see no inconsistancy here at all?

[LimMePls]

If your argument is "LMP went out of his way to make it plain that stalling RVS is bad, thus he's trying to hard to look town" then I'm guilty of the first part and think your conclusion is stupid.

[LimMePls]

You still don't have a good justification for why my doing it was BAD BAD BAD but Pine's wasn't.

[LimMePls]

If your argument is "LMP went out of his way to make it plain that stalling RVS is bad, thus he's trying to hard to look town" then I'm guilty of the first part and think your conclusion is stupid.

Nope. Your problem is that you tried to get out of RVS without any real reason(i.e. WHY ARE YOU FUCKING AROUND, LOOK AT HOW SCUMMY XXXX IS BEING). Also, getting a "scum caught for wrong reasons" vibe from this post.

You still don't have a good justification for why my doing it was BAD BAD BAD but Pine's wasn't.

Pine was actually being serious. You were just bitching about people joking around. There's a difference.

Are you trolling Gandalf? Cause that sure as shit is not what was happening.

[LimMePls]

Wrath wasn't the flipfloppinh cheerleader SGR was, so why vote Wrath over SGR?
And it's not that hard looking at which other player was keeping his RVS vote, while seeing a different player as scummy. It's your reason for thinking players are scummy. I have different ones. If I can see it, without thinking it's scummy, you should be able to find it as well.
As extra, your accusation against RBT is terribad. Learn to read sarcasm.

Wrath did it first, and I was reading up on the thread. SGR got my vote once it became obvious he deserved it more.

[LimMePls]

@Town: Ordinarily when catching up from a weekend V/LA, I just post comments as I'm reading. Since I've got 6 pages to catchup on, I'll just make one big post. It'll be up when I've finished the catchup.

[LimMePls]

Onward to my suspects. I haven't seen a satisfactory explanation from inHim for his suspicions, in fact I've seen no new posts from him at all. However, when I read him in isolation I realized my chronology was off. Now I wonder if the way he changed his read of chesskid was because he noticed the same thing I did. Nevertheless, I'm somewhat disturbed by the curt posting style and absence of arguments in his posts, I'll need to check some scum games of his. For now,

Vote: inHimshallibe

This looks like a town tell to me. Feysal could have chosen one of the already established targets and pushed that, but he's looking elsewhere.

It seems like I'm moving towards a lynch. Someone has to be the first sacrifice, and if it has to be Town, it may as well be me. From this point on, I am treating it as my job to beat the bushes and flush out as many scum as I can.

This also means that I will largely stop defending myself, and will not be answering questions from my scum/anti-Town reads. My Town flip will vindicate this stance and give added credence to my reads for the Town to go after.

I'll start tomorrow morning with a full re-read and begin shaking trees.

PE: I've already answered most of that, Icey, and in accordance with the above policy, will not be wasting my time any further with you. Fear not, you'll be featured and get your answers.

I intend to self-vote and push my lynch when I finish. I have nothing to lose, and Town has everything to gain from this tactic.

Hell, if I'm NOT lynched and flipped to confirm the validity of my reads, it's an exercise in futility.

The problem with this logic is that you're lucky if people even bother to notice your reads right after your flip. They'll surely forget about them within a game day. So then all we're left with is a dead townie who didn't do anything to stop their wagon.

To see a similar situation, I tried your exact same tactic in Ozy and Millie Mafia. It doesn't work.

No, he said I had circular logic. I asked him how, and he said, "Well, I guess you don't, but I also thought you voted two people in the same post, which is scummy, but you didn't do that either". So basically I never did any of the things he accused me of - but HE has done them, as I pointed out - but still votes for me just because he wants to look consistent.

That is how I read his posts. I'm asking around because I want to see if others read them the same way.

+1. Amrun is right about Beefster.

Town does not give up.

FALSE. I'll dig up multiple examples if you need them. This is a LIE.

Why so defensive?
It's called reaction testing, my friend. Yes, my initial reasoning wasn't great, but your reaction doesn't seem genuinely townie to me. Even though I have my vote on you, you're panicking over essentially nothing. Mind you there are only 2 votes on you right now. I don't see what the big deal is. You're responding as if you have something to lose.

**SNIP**

Pine is really starting to make me nervous with his self-lynch plan. I have never seen that tactic used by pro-town players.
FoS: Pine

I love when people make shit arguments, someone points out the argument is shit, and the person goes "I WAS JUST REACTION FISHING! DUH".

And by love I mean hate. Cause it's scummy.

And the FOS is so weak its scary.

LMP, do you usually put so much emphasis on getting out of RVS?

All the time. If you need supporting evidence I'll be happy to dig it up. For starters, here is one I know of off the top of my head. Secret Invasion Mafia. For one, I find that arguing about getting out of RVS is much more productive than just sitting around in RVS.

According to Snow_Bunny, claiming is the worst possible thing you can do. So that didn't see much of a good move. Regardless, I'l

Unvote

Can we please lynch this guy? Or Beefster?

What does everyone think of RBT?

I've had up close and personal experience with RBT-lurker-scum, so I'm watching this with great interest.

So you rather started a new 'wagon', because?

If I type slower and in capital letters will it make it easier to understand!? I WAS CATCHING UP TO THE GAME. I VOTED WHERE I WANTED TO WHEN I WANTED TO WITH NO REGARDS TO STARTING A NEW WAGON OR JOINING AN EXISTING WAGON.

Conclusions:
Pine wagon is BAD BAD BAD. Pine is town telling all over the place.

1 of Beefster or SGR should die today.

Town-o-meter

TOWN
Pine
Feysal
implosion
Albert B. Rampage
IceyCupcake
Amrun
CryMeARiver
BabySpice
Zdenek
Dry-fit
chesskid3
Mana_Ku
PeregrineV
Katy
Bunnylover
SnakePlissken
WrathChild
inHimshallibe
gandalf5166
Riceballtail
Beefster
SGRaaize
SCUM

As always reads are clearer at the poles and fuzzy in the middle.

[LimMePls]

Too many inconsistencies.

List them.

[LimMePls]

Aw crap. I think I was skimming a bit to much. LMP isn't all that inconsistent.

LOL!

[LimMePls]

I still have no explanation why Wrath over SGR. The only thing you've said, is that you were catching up. But that doesn't explain why you never mentioned it with SGR.

What are you talking about? I had like a 3 page argument with SGR over this very subject, at which point I voted him! Am I taking crazy pills?

As back to the quote, it's time for some MD-time: During the RVS, it's better to go with the wagon when you think two players are scummy for the same thing. Your options are: 'True', 'False' or 'CHESSKID'. In this topic, you may state your reason for the option you chose.

1) Your question is nonsensical. Do you mean with the bigger wagon?

2) Your questions is beside the point. I was not voting one or the other based on the size of their wagon. I was reading the game, I saw scum behavior and I voted it. That someone else makes the same scum behavior later is irrelevant, because I hadn't read that far yet. Once I finished reading that far I got into it with the other person (SGR) and over the course of many posts decided he was scummy so I changed my vote. WTF IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH THIS? IT SEEMS PERFECTLY RATIONAL TO ME!

I appreciate your defense and efforts, but would appreciate it even more if you scumhunted instead of calling the person with the best points against you, scum. I actually feel like LMP is one of the most town players so far. If you want me to move my vote off you, convince me there's a better place for it.

I called LMP scum before he voted me, so that's another very unfair statement, WC. I think you're Town, but stop tunneling me, godamnit. Plus, the post you quoted has two points I think I defended myself fairly good from. I feel as if you're completely ignoring everything I'm saying here and just keep tunneling on me because you're stubborn and won't give up on the idea I'm scum.

If either of these two flip scum the other should DIAF. "That's a very unfair statement you're making against me WC, BUT I STILL THINK YOU ARE TOWN!!!!" L O L.

LMP has his vote on me.

This is a lie. Quote my vote on you.

24- Pine, a wight (sorcerers) mysteriously dies on Day 1.

There was talk that maybe his role claim would get him modkilled. That was not a modkill folks, since it's not included in the "modkilled" section. By flavor it looks like scum maybe used some sort of kill undead power on him or something.

[LimMePls]

I'm rereading the early pages because my recollection is all fucked up. I have no idea what Mana's problem with my early play is.

[LimMePls]

Seriously, SGR is right. Not enough joking here.

UNVOTE x13, VOTE: Pine

Why so Serious?

WC made this post. I disliked this post. So I voted WC.

SGR then later makes this post:

LynchMePlz seems to be trying too hard to look town with his "UGHHHHHHH, I HATE RVS" mentality. RVS is awesome, deal w/ it.

This I have a problem with, along with his "way-too-serious-read" on Pine and his scum-read on me, so I challenge him on those issues. His responses are beyond lackluster, so I vote him.

I don't see the fucking problem.

[LimMePls]

If it's a mod kill then why isn't he in the modkill section on the mod's first post?

[LimMePls]

Oh, derp that's not a modkill section that's a "removed from game" Section. My bad folks, maybe it was a mod kill.

Will someone quote the rule that specifically says that name claiming is verboten?

[LimMePls]

Well, that was extreme. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Theoretically, didn't we just find a way to auto-win this game?
Instead of us actually vote-lynching people, we say "Vote: XXX", if there's a majority, that person is forced to claim his role and be killed.

Unlimited lynches D1. Trollface.jpg

This is so incredibly town it hurts. My brain might explode.

[LimMePls]

Unvote

[LimMePls]

No it works on scum too because if you claim scum you get mod killed.

[LimMePls]

It's not unlimited lynches, it's unlimited mislynches, but that's still pretty powerful. It guarantees every day ends in a scum/3p lynch.

[LimMePls]

-Modkills: If you break any rule, you will be, at my discretion, modkilled. Modkilled means that you will lose the game regardless of the result of your faction. A modkill may or not end the day, at my discretion, trying to punish the faction of the modkill.

This implies that the mod would have ended the day if it was a mod kill.

[LimMePls]

"trying to punish the faction of the modkilled player" would imply that "scum = day continues town = day ends".

[LimMePls]

this plan amuses me, but won't work in practice.

Why?

Also

Will someone quote the rule that specifically says that name claiming is verboten?

This, cause I've just been through the rules 3 times and I can't find any rule that specifically says claiming your role name is against the rules. There is the "no quoting" rule, but I've never seen that applied to role names before.

[LimMePls]

ITS ONLY GOING TO WORK ON TRUECLAIMING PEOPLE
SCUM USING FAKECLAIMS ARE NOT AFFECTED BY WHATEVER HAPPENS TO TRUECLAIMERS

JESUS H CHRIST

SO WHEN THEY CLAIM AND DON'T EXPLODE WE LYNCH THEIR FUCKING ASS.

WHAT IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS!? MAYBE IF YOU SPENT LESS TIME CAPS-LOCK RAGING AND MORE TIME THINKING YOU'D FIGURE THIS OUT.

[LimMePls]

Ah...
Well, but it wouldn't really be fair to punish us Townies for one guy claiming, especially when we didn't know claiming resulted in Mod-Kill

This is an argument for the "that wasn't a mod kill" viewpoint.

[LimMePls]

Has anyone ever been in an S_B game that had a modkill? If so, did S_B specifically say "this player is being mod killed" or was it like the death that just happened?

[LimMePls]

It won't work because townies are bound not to claim and/or argue about why this plan isn't good.

Such resistance to an obviously pro-town plan would be grounds for lynching. No townie should resist that.

[LimMePls]

Actually, two advices from your friendly mod. First, though you can paraphrase your role pm and make a claim, it is not advised to do so.

If that was the rule then Pine was NOT mod killed!

[LimMePls]

Why does it matter where the ability came from? What matters is it works.

Because where it comes from is related to how it works. And if it works differently than we think it does, we're screwed.

The only way I see the ability hurting us is if its some kind of Serial Killer who wins if he kills X people because they claimed.
That would be a pretty unfair role to play.

S_B is pretty explicit about not playing "out guess the mod". Something about "you will lose and it will be hilarious". Therefore I do not accept the notion of "that would be a pretty unfair role".

[LimMePls]

Ugh, I'm not getting into another semantic argument with you, you're probably town.

I just don't accept your premise.

In other news

Vote: Beefster

[LimMePls]

Holy shit. I missed one day and there are 9 unread pages. Catching up now.

[LimMePls]

I don't think the claim-lynch strategy will work. I really doubt anyone else will claim now that we are sure it's a bad idea. It's just as easy for a townie to fakeclaim as scum. If it also happens to apply to fakeclaims, then we still won't get anywhere and we'll have mislynched way more than necessary.

It's still a cool idea nonetheless- it just doesn't work in practice.

AKA: Please don't try that plan guys, it's really bad for us scumz.

Post #507 by LMP - Our slot isn't in your reads list, also can you explain your implosion town-read?

Weird. You'll be in the next one. As for implosion, it was mainly just my read of the slot from the early game play. I have recent town-implosion experience (Cyclic Experimentation in my ISO) and he reads the same way to me here.

I 100% endorse Katy #628.

Katy, what do you think of the possibility of Beefster + Amrun both being scum? I know when I decide to bus sometimes I have an unhealthy obsession with winning the bussing battle and getting my partner lynched over me XD That could explain the fishing for support that goes past normal scumhunting in this case. Both Regfan and I have Amrun as one of our top suspects and he is leaning scum on Beef as well, while I am more null on Beef at the moment. Just a theory, haven't looked into it enough to know if this is plausible or likely.

The Beefster/Amrun interactions don't read like a bus to me at all.

I agree with Gandalf about his opinion regarding the 'let us use this ability in favor for us'
The only other part that is interesting about these pages is LMP's change of opinion about SGR. SGR later admits that his 'plan' was actually a joke. Does this change your opinion on SGR and why?

Nope. It still makes me think he's idiot-town. Scum wouldn't have joked about that.

As for your other "problems" with me, I dont' know what to tell you other than I have no fucking clue what you're going on about.

@LMP: Where you being sarcastic when you said that unlimited mislynches is a good thing? When you said SGR's plan was so towny it hurt?

Nope. Do you not understand that if we had unlimited mislynched in a single day then we get to control all the killing as a town, and scum get no NKs? How can you possibly not see how that would be ridiculously town sided? We could literally mow multiple VIs before getting a guaranteed scum lynch. That would be so fucking awesome for town it would be sick.

No shit we aren't doing the plan because it's a terribad idea. You are trying to justify forced claiming and countless mislynches. Yeah we lynch scum after one "mislynch"... great, but what about after two or three or four. On top of that your threatening our power roles. And on top of THAT, you don't even know if that's what got Pine killed, so you're going to be pushing a lynch on someone who claims but doesn't get mod-killed probably based on coincidence more than evidence.

Maybe Pine had a posting restriction he violated and was killed because of that instead of his claim.

It was an awful and scummy plan and that's why we should lynch you.

WC, you're either being an idiot or scum. You couldn't be more wrong about this.

Also, does nobody find it interesting that Beefster comments about Amrun posting town reads, when that was a request?

I don't like it when people make a post of only town and null reads. C'mon, there's got to be some scum reads to show the rest of the class...

Beefster is reaching for anything he can to distract from his wagon. And the stretch is SCARY.

[quote="Beefster"}This is vaguely a scum slip- it's definitely a stretch. Proceed with caution...[/quote]

LULZ!

I do not get the ABR defense of Beefster at all. The back and forth with Amrun the last 2 pages is all noise with nothing useful.

[LimMePls]

Ok, had to stay home with sick kids today. I caught up and I'm starting to get a bad feeling about the Beefster lynch. I must say though that it's incredibly frustrating when some one like Beefster thinks it's OK just half-ass it all game. I plan on exploring the derail from Beef Wagon to Amrun when I have a bit more time.

Also, that being said I also wanted to propose a plan:

We obviously have a handful of lurkers here. We won't get much information from a lurker lynch, but perhaps we could all make a pact/vote to attack one or more specific lurkers tonight. If we get 5-7 people to attacking the same lurker with their damage attacks, we can have a pretty good chance of killing a lurker and not wasting the information we gain lynching a scummy active player.

The only issue I am not sure about in this plan is if coordinating a combined strike against scum would be easily preventable by the scum faction.

I don't think WC has had an original thought all game.

[LimMePls]

You got that right. Thanks for reminding me why I signed up for this game.

So you can play like shit and a) get mislynched or b) force the few people who know you play like shit to keep the rest of us from mislynching you?

[LimMePls]

Im back, I need to read back properly (Ive skimmed thus far) but Pine's claim for self voting is horrible. I learned my lesson from that, I don't care what situation you are in

self voting is scummy whether you are town or not.

Bolded emphasis is mine - how can something be scummy when you admit that it can come from either alignment? Something is defined as scummy if it is indicative that the alignment of the person in question is scum. How can something be scummy "whether someone is town or not?" If it can come from town or scum, why pay attention to it at all?

This is a good point.

Feysal, I voted for the wrong person Unvote I was looking to vote VOTE: Dry-Fit but I was reading Feysal last post comment
at the time. The reason being they are far more lurky than me and providing less content.

I find the first day stages really hard to get a handle on anyone, I find I can get more once we get to a flip and the overnights activity, providing I have survived it. What Mason claim Chess? Im also not liking CMAR trying to take on Gandlafs role from he last game either as some form of TL.

o_O

@Soben: What exactly is the problem with Implosion?

[LimMePls]

@Soben: I can see your point in the first two, but I don't understand the third. I think his observation in 3 is pretty spot on.

[LimMePls]

@MOD: I'm going to be V/LA over the weekend for holiday stuffs

Unvote

I'll catchup when I'm back.

[LimMePls]

I don't consider RBT's mention of Mages a slip of any sort, inclusion of a faction called mages could almost be assumed given the history and style of this theme however I strongly dislike the argument between Amrum and RBT it's not productive in any way.

/agree

It is not necessarily a scumslip, after mage inclusion in past games (didn't know), but it could be.

Nice doublethink. +major scumpoints to Amrun for this one.

Despite my one statement you take issue with, you think my push on rbt was contentless and did not push for content?

You do make one good point, though.

RBT, your scumreads with reasoning. Go.

I love how Soben basically just showed how Amrun's attacks on RBT were terrible, and Amrun just waves it aside and then says "oh ya, but you have a good point in your question" and then tries to take the question and use it as her own. Scummy as hell.

Ok, basically every post between Soben and Amrun on page 41 is +scumpoints for Amrun and -scumpoints for Soben.

What I'm talking about:
2 players wanted a longer RVS. You only mentioned one of them.
2 players kept their random vote, while calling a different player scummy. Only one of them got called out by you.
At least 3 players mentioned that they think that the claim plan won't work as town players won't claim. Rhetorical question: Did all of them get called out?
Get it now?

I see, so your suggestion is that I'm targeting some people and not others. Well, I don't see it that way at all. Don't know what else to tell you. If I attacked some people and not others it's because 1) I thought they were more egregious, 2) I missed the one but not the other, 3) I had a read/meta of the other that made questioning that person irrelevant.

If you think its scummy, then so be it.

Amrun, what evidence do you have that suggests NOT multiple scumteams? I came into this game assuming multiple scumteams. First off, it's a large, and more larges have multiple scumteams than not. Second, it's a large with a complex setup, which likewise almost always have multiple scumteams. So the burden of proof is on YOU.

This is the other reason someone speculating 2 scum teams isn't scummy. It's normal for large games to have 2 scum teams, I'd find someone suggesting only 1 scummier than someone suggesting 2. All of this will have much more meaning when we have more flips. Kills will suggest the number of scum teams.

On beefster: a lot of what he's done appears to have scum motivation, or well, to be illogical and in many cases just downright scummy. My read on him, however, at this point, after all of the pressure on him, is null leaning town.

This language reads like someone trying to keep a mislynch open. "Everything he's done is scummy, but after the presure I have him null". WTF is that shit?

Here we go again. This happened in the last game and by rights they all decided they controlled the game. I for one do not like a group of players having their own private clique.

Unvote, Vote Soben

This is such bad posting its not even funny.

Snake reeks of scared scum.

Weird. Snake looks town to me.

Our opinions couldn't be any more opposite.

I am not sold on Snakescum yet. It's hard to read lurkers, usually.

LOL.

RBT wagon is looks like a mislynch. I particularly dislike the "oh well, sucks to be him, but this is boring. Time for a lynch" votes.

TOWN
Soben
Feysal
Albert B. Rampage
chesskid3
Mana_Ku
IceyCupcake
CryMeARiver
BabySpice
Zdenek
Dry-fit
PeregrineV
Katy
Bunnylover
WrathChild
Riceballtail
inHimshallibe
gandalf5166
SGRaaize
SnakePlissken
Amrun
Beefster
implosion
SCUM

Unvote
Vote: implosion

[LimMePls]

LMP, what doles "sold" mean to you? If I am sold on somebody being scum, I am 90% sure. I find snake scummy, much scummier than the other lurkers, but I'm not totally confident in him as scum. Neither are you. What's the issue?

What sucks is that you are fence sitting, but even worse than fence-sitting, you're doing it while trying to use strong language to hide the fact that you're fencesitting. Someone could argue that fence-sitting is null (I personally think it's a scumtell on its own) but I don't think anyone can argue that fencesitting that is intentionally worded to appear like not-fencesitting is scummy as hell.

[LimMePls]

@Icey: Were we supposed to vote you before voting someone else EACH TIME we vote, or only once per game day? In other words, should I unvote, vote you and revote?

[LimMePls]

Null leaning town, I said. I later put him on my town list. How is that an attempt to keep a mislynch open? Also, you've been calling me town the entire game... now I say one thing and I'm at the very bottom of your list? How the hell does this one line warrant a change from your third-strongest town read to your strongest scum read? In fact, just 5 days ago (the last time before this post that you mentioned me) it was to ask Soben why he thought I was scum. If anything does, shouldn't this read as trying to keep a mislynch open? Turning literally on a dime on one of your apparently strong townreads, as a wagon is forming on him, to vote him and put him as your strongest scumread?

I called you town. Soben has pushed hard on that read, and I've conceded his points. Then I went V/LA and when I come back practically every post you make is scummy. And you wonder why you've gone to the bottom of the list? It's no great mystery.

[LimMePls]

@Icey: Were we supposed to vote you before voting someone else EACH TIME we vote, or only once per game day? In other words, should I unvote, vote you and revote?

[LimMePls]

^^This.

Plus, as I said earlier, the buildup to the RBT wagon doesn't sit right with me. The "zOMG how can you know 2 teams" stuff is phony as shit. Which basically makes it a policy lynch.

[LimMePls]

Really? His ISO says town to me.

#6, 12, 15 are town. 12 in particular where he lays out how beefster is scummy, but doesn't seem to have scum motivation, and therefore reads town is a VERY town chain of logic. Scum have no motivation to do that, especially if this is a multiscum game. It's also the same read I have on beefster, which makes me happy.

Whereas RBT is just screamingly dull and scummy to boot.

Vig targets I like so far:
Katy - 12 post ISO does not inspire confidence.
Bunnylover - meh, probably best of the lurkers
SnakePlissken - 13 post ISO is unacceptably short. Lots of fluff posts in those 13, which is hideous.
PeregrineV - WHO?!?
Feysal - NONONONONONONONONONONO

Other options: Mod is obviously a player, and probably who is killing who is claiming. Mod lynch not terrible idea.

ICE ANSWER MY FUCKING QUESTION PLEASE!

[LimMePls]

Yeah, I also think that Implosion is more likely scum than RBT, but who cares?

RAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LimMePls]

Read a book.

[LimMePls]

I see this is open now, but I have no time today. Will post tomorrow.

[LimMePls]

TOWN
Riceballtail
Feysal
Mana_Ku
A Gaggle of Geese
IceyCupcake
BabySpice
Zdenek
Dry-fit
PeregrineV
Bunnylover
WrathChild
inHimshallibe
gandalf5166
SGRaaize
Katy
SnakePlissken
Beefster
SCUM

Also, I may have something I want to talk about, but I'm waiting to see whats going on with the voting shenanigans first. Whether or not we can unvote today is pretty freaking important.

[LimMePls]

Ya for FOS count.

FOS: Katy

Read her ISO last night and was infinitely less than impressed. I would recommend it as good reading for anyone else who might want to find scum.

[LimMePls]

I still think Katy should swing. Pretty sure she's scum, for all the reasons I've already said.

Dry-fit is an ok lynch, but reads lazy to me. Looks more like an easy target for scum to point out.

[LimMePls]

Not much new to say here folks. Katy should still swing.

[LimMePls]

Come on guys, I'm happy you're making my job easier, but lay some votes! Lemme see da action! You know, it really can't be

that

bad, can it?

This annoys me to no end. You mess with the basic functioning of the game by disallowing unvotes and then complain when we don't want to vote? That is absurd.

Replace me out please. I have no patience for this game. Have fun everyone.