Dynasty Warriors Mafia (Shu Victorious)

[AlmasterGM]

/confirmatory

[AlmasterGM]

Actually, NOBODY SHOULD DUEL ANYBODY UNLESS THE MAJORITY OF US AGREE TO IT.

No. SPYREX made this game and it was obviously meant to be played SPYREX style. The problem with the "majority of us" is that scum are in the majority, and can thus influence the decision.

I propose: if you are OBVTOWN, you are permitted to duel and/or order other people to duel. If you are NOT OBVTOWN, you are not permitted to start duels and/or order other people to duel. OBVTOWN people will form an alliance and work together to find scumz.

[AlmasterGM]

Vi has been scum in 50% of my games with it.

[AlmasterGM]

No, it would be sloppy of the person who was empowered to duel to do so lightly. They should only duel someone if other obvtownies stand behind their reads and/or if they are incredibly sure on a read. If someone consistently duels town, then maybe they aren't obvtown anymore, either. Ultimately, my point is not that people who are obvtown should just go around yelling, "LOL IMMA KILL ALL TEH SCUMZ" - it's that people who are considered scummy and/or bad at scumhunting should have less of a say in the duel process than obvtownies and/or people good at scumhunting.

[AlmasterGM]

I don't think we should be making these plans in the thread. It's not like the game thread is private to scum, and the more we make a plan, the more they can find a way around it. We're already at a disadvantage to them in terms of information, should we really be giving them more info?

The scum already have the ability to coordinate in their QT. If we do not coordinate in the thread, the only people coordinating are the scum. Is that what you want?

[AlmasterGM]

Imagine the following: you and I are both confirmed town (by cop or something). We take a straw poll for who should duel and it comes out as follows:

Two obvscum players (5) - Obvtown, good scumhunter, good scumhunter, AlmasterGM, elvis_knits
Two people who we think are town, but for some reason these 7 people think are scum (7) - obvscum, obvscum, lurker, lurker, VI, null, null

My position: Fuck the straw poll, we're lynching the obvscum.
Your position: Welp, I disagree ... but I guess we'll go with the majority.

This example is clearly weighted to favor my side of the argument, but I think my point is clear - I'm valuing the opinions of certain people over others, and if it comes down to the wire, I'm not going to sit back and permit idiocracy. Scum and/or VIs should not have their votes weighted as strongly as obvtown and/or expert scumhunters. And don't give me this "well, we don't know who the obvtown are" - it's not that difficult to generally discern who is protown and who is not.

[AlmasterGM]

...

Powering on...

AlmasterGM 43... Statistics detected. Slander alert.

Maxous 53... Fluff levels significant. Action desired.

Voting... Maxous

(L-10)

Gammagooey 57... Suggestion advisable.

System message... RayFrost is Town. Katsuki is advised to change her vote now.

System message... Total comprehension of game mechanic on elvis_knits' part not detected. Suspicion slightly raised.

Standing by. Awaiting idiot input regarding whether this is a real post restriction.

-----

Vote: elvis_knits.

Your theory of how to play the game is wrong and benefits scum.

[AlmasterGM]

AlmasterG for convoluted reasoning why we should not let majority rule

Actually, I havbe provided very clear justifications, and you have strawmanned it all and responded with irrelevant nonsense.

And elvis is strawmanning like she owns a field full of corn.

This. So much this.

[AlmasterGM]

1)Town consensus, UNLESS, as stated earlier, it is a player is confident enough in his reasons for dueling without it. Consensus suggests that everyone is agreement on something, but the majority is not always correct.

This is a pretty non-concrete stance on the issue. Majority rules except when somebody strongly disagrees with the majority? That's not majority rules.

Scumbucket with you.

[AlmasterGM]

Vote: Rayfrost

His comment about being scum is worthy of a vote.

Toasty is also worth keeping an eye on. The only reason a mind would wonder to the possibility of two ro more scum teams is if the known composition of your own scum team is not very strong or large.

C-Worls 81 looks like a vote park with an easy transition to a any forming wagon. Dislike.

So you're voting for someone based on a pregame joke rather than actual content-based interactions?

[AlmasterGM]

Why didn't you mention the setup spec issue in your previous post?

[AlmasterGM]

Yeah, Toasty and Ludi are scum.

Unvote, Vote: Toasty

[AlmasterGM]

Are you suggesting that there is a connection between myself and Ludi? Please explain. I can't comment on a vote with a simple declaration.

Not specifically, I'm just saying you are both scum. If there's two scumteams, like you said, maybe you're on different teams.

[AlmasterGM]

GreyICE's entrance was pretty lackluster.

SCUM: ToastyToast, Magister Ludi, GreyICE.

[AlmasterGM]

lol, u mad?

[AlmasterGM]

Nah, my scum strategy is to buddy you, remember?

[AlmasterGM]

No, town's are full of VIs. I'm tired of losing games where I called who was scum and I still lost because of VIs. It's worse when you see someone who's obvtown to you about to get lynched by those same VIs. I probably won't do it normally but if I see town about to lynch someone who I believe to be obvtown while letting someone who is clearly scum walk free I will use the duel mechanic.

Dude, hate to break it to you, but you are a VI. Or at least, one of the more VI-level players in this game - almost everyone else here is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay above your level.

Your vote on me is also trololoooool.

---

I agree with inHim about CSL.

[AlmasterGM]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 11

AlmasterGM

- 2 - GreyICE, C-Worl - (L-9)

Amrun

- 1 - Juls - (L-10)

CSL

- 1 - InHimshallibe - (L-10)

elvis_knits

- 2 - Gammagooey, mykonian - (L-9)

Magister Ludi

- 7 - RayFrost, ToastyToast, Iecerint, Katsuki, Vi, Amrun, CSL - (L-4)

mykonian

- 2 - elvis_knits, DietyKabuto - (L-9)

RayFrost

- 2 - Magister Ludi, Maxous - (L-9)

ToastyToast

- 2 - AlmasterGM, RedCoyote - (L-9)

Players not voting: Bastard Bros

C-Worl 180 - My point demonstrated.

mykonian's posts are pure gold. It's everything I was trying to get at beautifully articulated. elvis_knits is definitely probable scum.

Toasty 185/189 - More scumposting. What is he even talking about and why does responding to RedCoyote's wall matter? Later, he offers a fence-sitty chainsaw of elvis_knits, discrediting mykonian's points, but still sort-of calling elvis_knits's points a straw man.

I could get on board with Gammagooey dueling elvis_knits, although I would probably prefer a Toasty, Magister Ludi, or GreyICE lynch ahead of her.

GreyICE 203 - Lol, dude...did you forget completely about Mafia with the Hydras and Brotherhood of the Wolf? Was I not cocky and confident there? I know Bebop must have been kinda embarrasing, but you could at least TRY. You haven't commented on anything other than me, and what you have said is laughable. Hellllooooo scum-GreyICE.

Juls 224 - Fuuuuck no. Let the person who is about to be lynched decide who to duel? If they're scum, why wouldn't they intentionally pick a town-looking buddy or someone who they thought had a bad power? Or, if they're a VI, what if they screw it up somehow? Like I said before, protown people should be the ones initiating duels. Not lynch candidates. Not VIs.

[AlmasterGM]

This is a TEAM game AGM, have a little faith in your fellow townies. I would also be fine with everyone electing the most townie person to be the duel partner. But the point is the same.

I do have faith - please don't mistake my argument for some sort of arrogant power trip that I think I'm the only one who should duel, I certainly don't think that - BUT if someone is about to be lynched, it's because they are either A) scum or B) were incapable of presenting themselves in a townie people. These aren't the people I think should be starting duels.

You were cocky and confident there. Here? You're speculating on the setup and borrowing reads while basically pushing no one.

First of all, it's not setup speculation, it's gaming the setup. I'm working with the known rules, not making vapid guesses about roles. Second, setup gaming is fine so long as you are ALSO scumhunting, which I am doing. Third, you (by your own admission) haven't done anything except say "AGM is scum," so by your own argumentation you are scum. Fourth, (this is most important) - are elvis_knits and Juls scum? Because they're talking about the setup, too.

[AlmasterGM]

I'm not saying "they did it too, thus I'm town." I'm asking you for reads. So you think they're town, then? Please specifically explain why my analysis is different than theirs. In particular, explain why mine is different from elvis_knits, since my post was a response to her post.

[AlmasterGM]

It's obviously fake.

[AlmasterGM]

Ah yes ... this is the GreyICE scum we all know and love. Screw up, flounder a bit, and then go into ANGRY SNARK MODE to try and make up for it. Regardless of whether your argumentation is laughable or not (hint: it is), you still haven't done anything that doesn't revolve around me being scum. Scummmmmmy.

That being said, I want more Toasty votes. His play is the scummiest ITT thus far. GreyICE will just continue to dig himself into a hole, so we don't need to worry about that. Toasty, however, I'm worried about slipping off the radar.

Also, ReaperCharlie - I swear to god if this turns into another Might of Mordor, I will choke you. POST IN HYDRA, PLOX.

[AlmasterGM]

(Posting on this account for emphasis)

Please, if you are going to say "RC", make it clear you're referring to RedCoyote, NOT ReaperCharlie.

Actually, I'd prefer if people would just not use "RC" at all.

Even though I'm in a hydra this game, it's confusing to me; and I'm sure that it'll confuse others too.

Thank you! <3

If you just posted in your hydra, this wouldn't be a problem, because then there wouldn't be a non-RedCoyote "RC" in this game.

In other news, elvis_knits switches suspects completely and begs for allies after getting pwnzored by mykionian. Scumtastic.

[AlmasterGM]

I'm trying to keep an open mind. Myko can't be the only scum.

Agreed, but you aren't just pointing out other scumtells and generating a list of scum. You specifically appeal to people to forge a new wagon on someone else, which is basically saying, "Now stop looking there...and look over here!"

Hey AGM, time to bus your buddy.

Why is she my buddy, specifically?

TIER IV - Null leaning Town
...
-ToastyToast

Code: Select all

[(catch (exception read-not-justified) 
 (System.out.printline("Please explain your read on PLAYERNAME")
 ]

[AlmasterGM]

Hey Grey, I'll give you a dolla if you challenge AGM to a duel.

Too scared to do it yourself, eh? Do it. I dare you.

Suspiciously specific denial found. Ambiguous. Desire of scum flip prominent to discern number of antiTown parties.

It is indeed quite specifically specific.

In other news, I have a secret town tell read on GreyICE now. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

Still scumz: Magister Ludi, elvis_knits (to respond to your comment, once again - I am not saying, "derp don't scumhunt," I am saying completely changing course after getting obliterated by your prime suspect is suspicious), ToastyToast.

New scumz: Iecrint (shorter posts, reduced role in leading town, concentration of flavor, reduced scumhunting all contrast with known Iecrint town play).

A person I just want dead no matter what: C-Worl

[AlmasterGM]

I still do not understand why we wouldn't just have the person who the town thinks is townie conducting the dueling instead of the person who is about to be lynched.

[AlmasterGM]

But the townie isn't the one pulling the trigger in your plan - the scummy, about to be lynched person is. If that person is scum, they obviously have zero reason to cooperate (and likely won't). Why would we not preempt that by having the OBVTOWNIE initiate the duel instead of the scummy person (like you keep suggesting)?

[AlmasterGM]

AlmasterGM 451... Request made to see Town tell.

It's a secret right now. We can talk about it tomorrow. GreyICE is never a good Day 1 lynch anyway, since he will never slip off the radar and will continue to give off tells.

Anyway, Toasty wagon clearly isn't going anywhere, so:

Unvote, vote: elvis_knits

[AlmasterGM]

^^^ Yeah, also three posts ago I brought up your scummy comments again, so you better revote me.

Actually yes, I thought you were going to drop it and say, "yeah, I was wrong back there, nervermind" but then you decided to reaffirm the same terrible arguments, so you are still scum.

Oh I see what you are saying....
Yeah, I meant the townie would pull the trigger instead of the lynchee.

EBWOP: [Stuff]

Good, the plan is almost perfect. The problem is still this: as soon as it becomes clear we have zeroed in on a target and are sitting down to hammer out the details, the target is probably going to try and screw things up (either because they are scum or a VI). Fortunately, we can combat this - all we need to do is make it slightly more unpredictable, which will keep scum from pulling the trigger prematurely because they won't want to confirm themselves as scum on the off-chance they won't die. We do this by changing "townie" to "townies" and "target" to "targets" and let the townies choose a target.

...Wait ... what's that, you say? That was AGM's plan to begin with? Why yes...yes it was. How convinent.

AlmasterGM 474... Error. GreyICE currently under radar.

So you want to lynch GreyICE today?

Also, here's an error for you to chew on:

Code: Select all

(for (i = 1; i > 0; i++) (
System.out.println("I shall not question secret towntells on Day 1.")
))

[AlmasterGM]

Also, Red - Can you give us one of those scum-o-meters you do? Because right now I have no idea who your suspects or anything are, and I don't feel like parsing through giant walls.

[AlmasterGM]

‪AlmasterGM 495‬... Error. Socratic response in regards to GreyICE does not answer original objection. Obstinance for sake of obstinance detected. Sarcastic gratitude issued.

I answered your objection (which was really you just saying "no") in #474. You ignored that and responded with "error." I responded with asking if you would be okay with lynching GreyICE tomorrow, and I gave two reasons why we should do this. 1) A topic I wish to discuss tomorrow and 2) GreyICE tends to become more readable as the game goes on, so it's beneficial to let him brew for a while. Now you have once again responded with "Error" and called me obstinate … but then you proceed to agree in your next post that GreyICE isn't lynchable today. So if anyone is being difficult for the sake of being difficult, it's clearly you.

Perhaps a summarized view of the conversation would make this more clear:

AGM: I think Thing A.
Vi: No.
AGM: Here's why I think Thing A.
Vi: No.
AGM: Well, what do you think of Thing A?
Vi: You are stubborn and wrong.
Vi (to everyone else): Let's do Thing A.

This is scummy.

[AlmasterGM]

List of lynch candidates for today (in order of preference);

1) Iecrint
2) elvis_knits
3) ToastyToast
4) Magister Ludi

Also, C-Worl.

[AlmasterGM]

Toasty lynch in the house, yo.

Unvote, Vote: Toasty

[AlmasterGM]

AlmasterGM - Unless my memory is GREATLY mistaken you asked if I wanted GreyICE lynched Today. Not Tomorrow. After checking, why look! I'm right. If you're going to provoke me, at least do me a favor and get your own facts straight.

20th Level Strawman. Yes, you are correct that I said "tomorrow," but that was just a small typo, and "today" was what I meant and is what I have stated in my previous posts. My argument stands - you have been fed me "errors" for backburnering GreyICE, and then proceeded to do the same thing yourself.

I don't think GreyICE is the best lynch Today simply because there are other people I'm more interested in lynching. However, as mentioned before I doubt GreyICE will be lynched regardless of his alignment. Frustration ensues, because I believe his play indicates scum.

Okay, so why call me "obstinate" for saying, "let's not lynch GreyICE today and talk about it tomorrow?"

[AlmasterGM]

MURDER DEATH SPREEE

[AlmasterGM]

Also, I'm gonna have a really sweet post later tonight when I get some time.

Secrets shall be revealed.

[AlmasterGM]

Alright, so here's the secret stuff I was talking about.

One of my passive abilities, called "intelligence," confirms that there are three anti-town factions in the game.

In other words, we're (almost certainly) dealing with two scumteams and a serial killer. I initially planned to hold on to this information in an attempt to catch someone in a lie (e.g., the serial killer fakeclaiming vig, or something). However, RedCoyote's flip negates that potential benefit and it's likely there will be two people dead tonight anyway, so I see no reason not to claim now.

As a side note, this information is why I was so adamant about trusting obvtownies to duel scum. It's multiscum, so even if we accidentally label scum town, they still have an incentive to honestly hunt and nail the other team in order to look obvtown.

Here's how we can use this information to our advantage: Scum already know that this is multiscum from the size of their teams. With 20 players I would guess 3 person scumteams ... possibly 4, but that's unlikely. 3/17 or 3/1/16 is unheard of - thus scum are automatically going to know the setup is 3/3/14 or 3/3/1/13. Thus, what we are looking for is people who already seem certain that it's multiscum. It's not a slam-dunk tell, of course, but I think it's definitely something.

My secret towntell on GreyICE was this.

Hey AGM, time to bus your buddy.

Oh right, this could be two teams. Fair point. I'd hate to lynch you for being the wrong sort of scum. That'd be downright rude

The manner in which he "discovers" the possibility of multiscum sounds way too natural and legitimate for me. Don't get me wrong, I HATE everything else about his play, but this was enough for me to at least discount lynching him before I came forth with this information and discussed it with other people. However, GreyICE lost a LOT of that town cred in this post:

AGM is free scum or your money back. Why? He was pushing me and then backed off with LOLSEKRET META TELL. This is obvious bullshit. Is no sekret meta tell.

He just figures that he's declaring a general truce with the other scumteam for day 1.

Joke is on him, I is not scums.

...

With town as heavily non-VT as the OP suggests, is not 1+SK, is 1+1

Emphasis mine. Here, GreyICE is 100% certain about multiscum, which is the exact scumtell I was looking for. Moreover, this "heavy non-VT" assumption doesn't exist ANYWHERE in the OP. All it says is everybody gets to do something if they win a duel, which isn't even that good, since (in most cases) only one person will be winning a duel per day. Thus, GreyICE is moving WAAAY back up on my scumlist. Near the top, now.

It's memorial day weekend so I don't have a ton of time right now, but I will be combing through the rest of the thread when I get a chance to look for more reads surrounding this issue.

[AlmasterGM]

Guyz it's a holiday, what's with all the HOLY DUELING CONTENT POSTING.

[AlmasterGM]

Catching up now...

[AlmasterGM]

Ooooookay, so apparently I missed the whole thing. WOOSH. I would not be surprised at all if one of the no-kills was simply from somebody forgetting about instantaneous night.

As far as the past deaths ago, I expected Toasty and (to a lesser degree) inHim to flip scum, but whatever - I don't think I'm wrong on ALL my reads.

Vote: GreyICE

Connection to RedCoyote by Vi is good. Also, he's still scummy.

Maxous's declaration that he's dueling today is a no-no unless approved by obvtown players.

More later.

P.S. I don't know anything about flavor, so I'll leave decrypting all that to other people.

[AlmasterGM]

Soooo you've been following along but you don't have any reads on the first 37 pages?

Wut.

To me this sounds like, "I had reads, but then I drew a scum role PM, so now I need to completely rethink this game from a scum point of view."

[AlmasterGM]

Nope not worried at all. It's my style of play. I'm not worried about being scum, as I drew town. Lynch me right now if you're not prepared to play with me. I have no strategy to rethink. The game for me started on my first post. But nice that you two (AGM, Ludi) quickly jump on something very insignificant, I'll keep that in mind.

Good god, this post could not be any scummier if it tried. Let's take a look at all the nuggets we've got in this gold mine:

1) The "I'm always scummy" meta defense.
2) The "deal with it or lynch me" ultimatum.
3) Repeats himself saying he's town ("I'm not worried" and "I have no strategy to rethink") despite this being completely irrelevant to the discussion. Getting caught reaffirming your false statements is a CLASSIC liar move.
4) Restates his terrible MD theory argument without actually responding to the actual criticism (e.g., if you've been following along, you obviously must have SOME thoughts - so why not share them?). Highly dismissive.
5) A thinly-veiled threat directly at Ludi and I inferring that if we keep finding him scummy, he'll find us scummy.

[AlmasterGM]

Can we get another dayvig on this clown?

[AlmasterGM]

You sound like scum who is upset and indignant at getting caught over what you thought was a trivial first post.

And FYI, I don't need to look for "any reason" to start a lynch nor do I need to keep the duel button off myself. There's plenty of good reasons to lynch plenty of people, and none of those reasons apply to me. You clearly lied about skimming the thread because if you had been paying attention AT ALL, you would know this.

[AlmasterGM]

Sure - he didn't lie, because there's no motivation to lie about skimming as ANY alignment. He is familiar with the thread and is actively choosing to say things that any sensible, town person would not say.

[AlmasterGM]

See this is what happens when you try and use democracy. Random people just roll in and fuck everything up anyway. And then there has to be YET ANOTHER debate about punishing them, because that would have to go through the democratic process as well.

Thus, I propose MARTIAL LAW. If your name is not Juls, Gammagooey, mykonian, AlmasterGM, or Vi, you are NOT ALLOWED TO START DUELS. If you start a duel and you are not a) one of these people or b) ordered to start a duel by one of these people, you are marked for immediate death. End of story.

Vote: No winner

[AlmasterGM]

No, your system has been proven not to work. We are using mine from now on.

[AlmasterGM]

Yes we did. We told everyone they had to wait and vote in straw-polls to determine the duelist and the dueled, but people ignored it because there was no clear leadership. Random people started making sweeping statements like, I'm dueling X today!" and, in this case, actually STARTING a duel. And because we have to use the same sluggish and inefficient democratic process in order to hold people accountable, there is no way for us to actually enforce anything.

By using an authoritarian system with clear leadership, rules, and punishments, we check back idiocy and hold people accountable for their actions.

(It's pretty interesting how real-world political theory actually applies to this game).

[AlmasterGM]

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff.

[AlmasterGM]

You just started an unapproved duel and cost us a double lynch WTF?

[AlmasterGM]

Claim: Lu Bu, Modified

Lyncher

wut

[AlmasterGM]

Also...god...the ABILITIES.

HELLO THIRD PARTY.

[AlmasterGM]

Vi doesn't lynch people, she slays them.

[AlmasterGM]

Also how the fuck are you the "only hope for the town?" All your abilities do is kill shit and protect you. Aka serial killer. Or, as you so beautifully claimed, LYNCHER.

[AlmasterGM]

Well it certainly seems gamma is not a lyncher like I suspected o_O

DK is not town.

P-Edit: We could have Iecerint confirm but as far as I know Lu Bu is

not

part of the Wei and is therefore not town. He is one of the three anti-town factions AGM mentioned.

oh shit I might have read my role wrong, I am a third party, but I am for and supporting town and without me and how this game is now, I am really sure you would need me to stick around until all the scum die

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Nominate: Best role claim of 2011

[AlmasterGM]

Duel in progress

System... T-Bone authorized as next duel target. Processing previous events further...

APPROVED.

Gamma and mykonian - what say you?

[AlmasterGM]

EBWOP: Quote is from Vi, not myself.

[AlmasterGM]

AlmasterGM 1049... Error. Nomination to be for Funniest Claim.

[AlmasterGM]

What do we think of a Maxous TBone duel?

For Max to win or double-death?

[AlmasterGM]

Never before has a game been so painful to watch from the dead topic.

It was excruciating.

[AlmasterGM]

Nevertheless, good game scum. Quicktopic, please?

[AlmasterGM]

Nevertheless, good game scum.

Quicktopic, please?