Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[Flameaxe]

Sexy confirm dance.

[Flameaxe]

There's a building labeled by a question mark under 22 on the map. What do you suppose is in that building?

My drugs. Keep out.

EDIT: Restrict being the key word, Fritz. Eliminate my competition.

[Flameaxe]

We didn't have an N0. But I supposed the recruiters could have had a pre-game pick.

We had a pre-game/N0 pick in the first game.

[Flameaxe]

We didn't have an N0. But I supposed the recruiters could have had a pre-game pick.

We had a pre-game/N0 pick in the first game.

Before the thread opened, or during the confirmation phase?

I replaced in, so I'm not sure when exactly it was. I'd assume with two lynch immune stumps they get some sort of recruit...Otherwise we would be doing absolutely nothing day one.

[Flameaxe]

In succession I, both mob bosses tried to recruit Seraphim, and only the first one to send his action succeded.

^This.

[Flameaxe]

For once...I completely agree with DGB.

[/hellfreezingover]

[Flameaxe]

Vote: Springlullaby

I might as well start with my gut, and work from there.

[Flameaxe]

I didn't flake Succession 1, didn't flake either of Prozac's minis, didn't flake oman's mini, requested replacement in oldy only to retract that request 20 minutes too late. Your logic is three years too old, Yos.

Unvote

Still not really a fan of SL, but it's not quite worthy a place for my vote anymore. I don't think DGB's case on xvart is all that fantastic, and I don't think the generic DGB manic posting is helping my opinion of that.

Vote: Cobble

. Really not liking that flip-flop in 171/2, not to mention what seems to be useless rolefishing in a game like this.

Hero 173: Lets not start the active lurking reasoning less than 24 hours into the game, it just makes you sound silly.

Xvart 176: Again, lets not start silly sounding arguments and actually play like a normal game.

182 Only helps me feel happy about my vote-placement. Your mouth keeps moving, but I'm not hearing anything. 184: We're in a game with two cults, pandering about power roles is wasted effort.

[Flameaxe]

182 Only helps me feel happy about my vote-placement. Your mouth keeps moving, but I'm not hearing anything. 184: We're in a game with two cults, pandering about power roles is wasted effort.

It was more like me trying to not lynch a potential PR.

Happier with my vote.

[Flameaxe]

11 hour shift today, probably no post tonight because of it. I'll have something substantial tomorrow night.

[Flameaxe]

You know what...

vote: xvart

he's a good a chance as any.

Cool bandwagon, bro. If he's a good a chance as any, why vote him over any? Any has been pretty scummy.

[Flameaxe]

Going a few pages back, expect something soon. Apologies for the delay, blame my boss for a shitty schedule.

[Flameaxe]

St(r)eamy consciousness starting at 279:

Cobble 290: You have Katsuki listed as "decided to lurk" yet Kat is also one of your town reads. Consider me baffled at your logic here.

Zdenek 300: Removing players from consideration due to a profession mod-confirmed to be flavor only seems like a moronic thing to even consider.

Ooba 311: This is some pretty shitty logic. I expected better out of you. There is no logical reasoning for ruling out anyone as a candidate for recruitment due to their skill/experience. A high caliber player would be seen as a likely choice, but a CR might see this and go for a lower-caliber player, but a CR might think that the town might expect this, so they might...etc. Circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works.

Yos 313: Yeah, we recruited you the night after day one in Succ 1.

Tanarin 329: This post basically sums up my thoughts regarding the claim. Ultimately, I don't really see the claim itself being a huge tell, null if anything, but I just don't see any reason why someone would hurry a claim under the pressure he was under.

Cecily 330: Cop out post is pretty cop out-y. Really not liking this whole "I don't know xvart, so imma take someone elses word for it and blindly follow it" business. Consider this a comment of you jumping up my scumlist.

Spring 333: Question (to you or anyone else who may want to chime in on the whole thing): The cobble claim doesn't make sense from a town point of view, sure, but do you see any situation where it would make sense from a scum point of view any more than a town point of view?

Ludi 341, 342, 344: I'm failing to see any worthwhile reason for these posts. I'd like it much more if you drifted from any setup speculation and moved onto who you feel is scum and why. Setup speculation is simply that, speculation.

Ludi 354: Another rather worthless post. This game will be a lot easier on you if you forget about those two people named ABR and Kinetic. Lynch recruits, win. Simple plan is simple.

Ooba 365: You're really stuck on the whole "recruit the elite, its the bestest" logic, aren't you? I'll just remind you of Succession 1 where BOTH recruiters went after me=wierd night zero, someone who is not an elite player named Yosarian2.

Cobble 370: This post just makes your claim look plain desperate. I still don't see a logical reason to jump from "xvart has correct points against me" to "LOL I SHOULD CLAIM".

Hero 376: That's Ani, not any.

Ludi 386: Not really my post to reply to, but I'd like to get a few comments in.
A) I'm not voting cobble because I think he is a probable recruit. Why? Because voting for someone due to them being a probable recruit is a bunch of WIFOM, and I'd hope you understood that by now. (Refer to circular logic comment above!) I'm voting for Cobble because throughout the day, he has done things that I find scummy, and due to these things, I find him to be the scummiest player on the table (but others are closing in, cough cough, you). I get it, there is a cult. That doesn't mean we should approach this game any differently than any other in terms of finding scum.
B) There really isn't a switch-a-roo. Stop grasping.
C) HoS is lame. (I really didn't have a decent C, so this is what i put)

Ludi 387: Stop trying to limit wagons. Deadline is nowhere close, and trying to draw a line in the sand already is not only a terrible idea, but a damn scummy one in my eyes.

SORRY IT'S A BIT WALL OF TEXT-Y. Had a few pages to dig through.

[Flameaxe]

But the real issue here is the fact that the whole concept of a player being recruitable is a giant pile of WIFOM that is excessive for this part of a game. Mixing WIFOM and scumhunting is not a worthwhile endeavor, nor should it ever be. Unless you have some magical way of reading the CR's mind, I don't really see a reason to bother outguessing them straight up. As for circular logic, the sheer fact that it CAN be turned into circular logic should be a reason to stay away from it.

I don't see a single person on that player list (beyond ABR and Kinetic) that should be seen as a possible recruit, it just makes little sense to rule anyone out. I'd also hate to be the one to point it out, but your case on Batt is pretty much awful. The yos case isn't as bad, but is pretty far from good.

PEDIT: It was clear enough, honestly.

[Flameaxe]

Spring 333: Question (to you or anyone else who may want to chime in on the whole thing): The cobble claim doesn't make sense from a town point of view, sure, but do you see any situation where it would make sense from a scum point of view any more than a town point of view?

I think it might be something I could have tried as an investigation proof scum. What with the lying low since the claim.
I need to look at his meta though.

Cobbler

, what do you think of that? Wanna vote yourself to prove that you aren't scum?

In a game with a cult, does an investigation proof scum really seem all that likely?

[Flameaxe]

sorry everyone. Here's it formatted correctly:

You have Katsuki listed as "decided to lurk" yet Kat is also one of your town reads. Consider me baffled at your logic here.

It was the way Kats announced the lurking. Though, it'll be bad if she's recruited. Maybe we should lynch Kats so she can't keep herself from showing a difference in playstyles?

...I'll just remind you of Succession 1 where BOTH recruiters went after me=wierd night zero...

Wasn't that Seraphim and me=weird replaced him?

That is correct. I replaced in after that myself, so it slipped my mind. Either way, I still see the point standing. Subtle want to lynch is a bit unsettling here too.

[Flameaxe]

I really just want the lurkers to stop lurking.

Generally speaking, validating a lurker by putting them on a public townread list isn't the best way to start with this.

[Flameaxe]

Oh.

Flameaxe, do you know how the mechanics worked in succesion I?

Actually anyone from the game I guess could answer that. It'll save me the looking.

Generally, but I'm not so certain the mechanics will be the same with the stumped CRs. You might need to be more specific on which mechanics you want me to flesh out.

[Flameaxe]

And I've already adressed that the flavor will hint too much at my role.

Hint too much at...the role you've already claimed?

[Flameaxe]

Players that don't like the xvart wagon are welcome to pile their votes on MLudi.

I could live with this.

[Flameaxe]

Fifth Vote Count of Day One:

xvart - 7 (DrippingGoofball, Cecily, Yosarian2, Seraphim, Fritzler, Nobody Special, ThAdmiral)
Cobblerfone - 6 (

recruit, recruit, recruit, recruit, recruit, recruit

)
Magister Ludi - 2 (springlullaby, Battousai)
springlullaby - 2 (Herodotus, Zdenek)
Yosarian2 - 2 (Magister Ludi, populartajo)
Chronopie - 1 (RaudhrGarm)
Katsuki - 1 (Bunnylover)
Herodotus - 1 (populartajo)
ThAdmiral - 1 (Dry-fit)

Not Voting: 3 (Chronopie, Katsuki, Cobblerfone)

With 25 voters, it will take 13 to lynch.

Corrected for not being helpful.

Fixed. We get the point, stop waving this same post around and convince us that your silly xvart wagon is worth our time. I'm getting tired of this little broken record routine of yours.

[Flameaxe]

ITT DGB misses the point. I was telling you to convince us that the xvart wagon is worthwhile, and stop wasting your time mindlessly telling everyone how rubbish you think the cobb wagon is. Reading is tech.

[Flameaxe]

I'm due for a post as soon as I return to my apartment. Yell at me otherwise.

[Flameaxe]

I've had surprisingly little to comment on, hence virtually no posting.

You are not voting.

Vote.

Who's scum?

You tell us.

[Flameaxe]

I guess I could have added to my last post that I really don't have much to add beyond repeating what I've already stated. Or giving townreads, which in a game like this doesn't feel very appropriate. If anything, I will say that Prozac's comment about Yos seems pretty spot on (as does the rest of 576 for that matter). [LudiSpeculation]I'd also expect the CRs to go after someone that would be safe on D1, and I don't recall Yos being lynched on day one that often.[/ludi] Ultimately, this isn't enough to make me think he is recruited yet.

On a similar note, Cobble's yos vote doesn't sit all that well with me. The reasoning to go along with it is horrifically vague, and stating that he has a history of doing something in S1, but also claiming you can't find the post that supports your claim is super sketch in my book.

Batt's comments regarding Katsuki is also spot on. Step up, Kat. Play the game, don't expect others to play it for you.

Not liking the continued skating by from Cecily either. The few posts she has made are (in my opinion) totally worthless throwaway posts. I would also like to see a bit more from Bunnylover. RaudhrGarm stated he would be back to posting today, for anyone who may have forgotten. Sera has falled off the face of the game (

Prod?

)

Xvart wagon is just as moronic as it was a week ago.

[Flameaxe]

I was refering to what someone else had said. I still can't find it, but apparently when you were recruited and "confirmed" scum somehow they left you alive because you were leaking (false) details about the number of recruits each team had, etc. I'm not so certain whether you were recruited by then or not, but it's something I took into account when reading your ISO this time.

This happened quite late into the game, with a claimed guilty on him, and a claim from himself. I don't exactly see any connection to actions now (and would call it a stretch at best).

[Flameaxe]

Katsuki- From your posts, you've hardly commented on anything. There are plenty of posts left to comment on.

I honestly have virtually nothing to comment on.

This is a problem. How do we fix this?

[Flameaxe]

And so, because you, as one lone player, have decided unilaterally that he isn't scum, we don't get to see his flip.

Thanks, ever so.

FoS: Batt

P-Edit:

Why the FoS? "an unknown thing" =/= "a scummy thing".

Not liking bvoit's request for flavour, but it looks like one of those things that is slightly more likely to be townie anti-town play than scum anti-town play.

Generally, if someone claims to the extent that they did, flavor is generally asked for...

[Flameaxe]

I've been reading along at work, and I already know catching up will be nothing but a headache, but I'm doing it anyway. Prozac votes are as idiotic as DGB votes (both are very idiotic). Ssssstop it.

[Flameaxe]

Cobble
Spring
Chrono

Which is almost the same list I would have had on page seven. This has been a helpful day. >_>

[Flameaxe]

I thought we determined on page 5 that we should basically ignore everything Kinetic and ABR say? Why is this still a topic of discussion? It's not that complicated.

Re Chrono: Chrono can easily be seen as a probable recruit, as someone who was recruited for a good majority of S1. It wouldn't surprise me at least one recruit is a returning player.

Re LL/Cecily: While I agree with the thought behind Tajo's 905, something is just really bothering me about the playerslot. Cecily wasn't exactly anywhere near townie to me, and LL hasn't improved my view all that much. As unlikely as it may be, I'm finding this one difficult to just ignore.

EDIT: What Prozac said.

[Flameaxe]

I already answered that question, please read things. Thanks!

[Flameaxe]

I thought we determined on page 5 that we should basically ignore everything Kinetic and ABR say? Why is this still a topic of discussion? It's not that complicated.

Re Chrono: Chrono can easily be seen as a probable recruit, as someone who was recruited for a good majority of S1. It wouldn't surprise me at least one recruit is a returning player.

Re LL/Cecily: While I agree with the thought behind Tajo's 905, something is just really bothering me about the playerslot. Cecily wasn't exactly anywhere near townie to me, and LL hasn't improved my view all that much. As unlikely as it may be, I'm finding this one difficult to just ignore.

EDIT: What Prozac said.

This was on the last page.

[Flameaxe]

The cult wasn't different, just the leaders weren't stumped.

[Flameaxe]

I was the only one who tried to recruit him on I want to say night four. I didn't think his play was all that bad there.

[Flameaxe]

Re Chrono: Chrono can easily be seen as a probable recruit, as someone who was recruited for a good majority of S1. It wouldn't surprise me at least one recruit is a returning player.

Is that really your whole case against Chrono?

No...I was stating it in reply to the comments regarding Chrono. I've been spouting out about how likely recruits are silly sounding the entire game, and was simply saying that Chrono should not be a player to throw away as not being a probable recruit. Chrono is 3rd (probably closer to 4th now, but ThAD's stupid lists seem to frown upon changes) due to general lack of content and what I consider to be a mostly fluffy ISO. In addition, the xvart vote was pretty terrible (the vote was monday, not early game). With the little content chrono has up till now, claiming a vote as sheeping DGB doesn't sit well with me.

So yeah, basically, read the ISO and tell me how many useful posts chrono has at this point. That's why he is where he is on my list. Him being listed as a probable recruit was only posted to show that I don't feel he should be ignored. Hope this helps.

@Cobble: Elaborate on this bias you speak of. S1 is over, this is a new game. What was done has been done and has been pushed aside.

@Batt: You consider chrono's calling DGB town and sheeping a vote reasonable at an early point in the game. The only problem with it is that I don't see where it happened in early game, as I said above. The sheeping of the vote happened on monday, and chrono was not voting in any votecount up until the last votecount (votecount 10).

[Flameaxe]

So if you were the only one trying to recruit him night 4 and his play was so-so, then how does he become a viable recruitment day 1 with white flag rule?

How does he not?

[Flameaxe]

@Cobble: Elaborate on this bias you speak of. S1 is over, this is a new game. What was done has been done and has been pushed aside.

I just meant that you've recruited him before so of course you'd see him as a good recruit, right?

I'm a bit disturbed with RaudhrGarm not replacing out or posting by now. Isn't that usually a scumtell if a player goes on V/LA for too long?

For what its worth, our reasoning didn't have much to do with how scummy he was or wasn't. It was because he was a claimed RB with an innocent result from our cop. This is a bit off track, but oh well. Nothing else to comment on really.

[Flameaxe]

We have 4 days left. We gotta speed this thing up.

Comments like this do not accomplish what you are asking. Just saying.

[Flameaxe]

@Batt: You consider chrono's calling DGB town and sheeping a vote reasonable at an early point in the game. The only problem with it is that I don't see where it happened in early game, as I said above. The sheeping of the vote happened on monday, and chrono was not voting in any votecount up until the last votecount (votecount 10).

??? When Did I say?

also

unvote, vote Katsuki

Thats because you didn't say. I misread completely. Apologies. (It should be directed at Yos, don't know where i got Batt from Yos).

[Flameaxe]

No.

[Flameaxe]

No.

[Flameaxe]

Really not happy with the way TheAdmeral is trying to do some meaningless math voodo to figure out who we should lynch rather then just placing his own vote based on his own logic.

^this.

[Flameaxe]

The xvart wagon is just as shitty as it was 40 pages ago, and my vote will still go nowhere near it regardless of deadline. Thanks.

[Flameaxe]

I'm not too keen on a Yos lynch at this point. I see the probable recruit side, but not much more than that. I've seen lots of people claim to be putting out damning information against him, but I can't find it within their posts. I'd obviously prefer a cobble lynch over any other, but will settle for Ludi or Chrono over Yos.

Not enjoying the constant babble from Kat regarding being close to deadline. PROTIP TO KAT: IF YOU WANT A LYNCH, PUSH YOUR CASE, NOT THE DEADLINE. Telling me a deadline is a few days away doesn't make me think a yos lynch is a worthwhile one. Convince me it is, it would be a better use of your time. Perhaps no one is listening to you because you have nothing worthwhile to say.

On another, related, note: How moronic is this game coming to if we are using the same logic as the RVS two days before deadline? "I'm guessing XXXXXX would be a good recruit based on nothing in the 50 fucking pages of thread but pure speculation" shouldn't be a serious wagon this late into the day.

Edit: Prozac, I think we can both agree that a speedlynch on DGB wouldn't be reasonable right now.

[Flameaxe]

You have andy voting twice, by the way.

[Flameaxe]

You should ISO Yos2 and search for xvart, like I did.

Which doesn't show anything damning against Yos that couldn't be damning for about 5 other people. Your point?

[Flameaxe]

Unvote, Vote: Chrono

. Cobble is still better, but meh.

[Flameaxe]

Behind, will catch up tomorrow when I'm off work.

[Flameaxe]

Vote: Cobble

. Nothing has changed regarding this vote from yesterday other than his ThAd "case". Mostly as a place to put my ideas in writing, here's where I'm sitting with cobble:

• His points against ThAd are horrifically weak and impossible to defend against. Using points like "he must have ulterior motives with the lists" and "he's trying TOO hard to be friendly" just sound stupid when you give it any thought. If we're calling Thad scummy for using the lists, then we might as well call the entire playerlist scummy for going along with it, yourself included. List or no list, it took ten votes to get a lynch out of it, and ten votes were given, and you seemed just fine to go along with it (the vote) yesterday. As for impossible to defend, there really isn't any way to make a reply to your "case" without saying anything along the lines of "nuh-uh!". I've generally found in situations like that, the case is pretty wishy-washy as it is. So yes, I think your case is wishy-washy at best.
  
• All this teamster meeting business is a massive waste of time, not only to the teamsters, but to everyone who has to read through it. 47 says that role is not the same as job, and I don't really see how meeting at a place on the map at night would do anything to make all the teamsters do anything special. Even if it did, you didn't exactly commit all that much to the meeting other than a few throwaway comments. When day two opened, you displayed some care or concern about the fact that the meeting didn't happen, only to turn around to say you didn't care once it became apparent that none of the other teamsters cared at all about the meeting. Like I said, this was, and still is, a waste of time, and has been from the start.
  
• 182, 184, and 190 are all terrible, terrible posts that reek of nothing but shameless rolefishing. Not to mention they all go back to the idea posted by Flay in 47 that job and role are different, which leads to the thought that those of the same roles do not have the same roles.
  
• 297 might be worse than all three of the above. The claim itself from cobble is NOT what should be seen as scummy. The fact that despite claiming an integral part of the role, he refuses to disclose information that would support his claim (aka: flavor). I fail to see any reason why explaining the flavor behind your unrecruitable-ness would do anything to hint too much at your role.
  
• Unrelated note: What was stopping any non-teamsters from joining the meeting? Wouldn't that have some sort of impact on the meeting if it happened?

I'll add to this as I think of shit.

Regarding DGB: I'm torn. As with Yos, I've seen this DGB before as town. I'm also wary to follow this past experience and claim she is still town here. As much as I see her doing this as town, I can also see her doing it as town, so it's a nulltell as of now in my eyes. I also think Tan's point in 1485 is a decent one.

[Flameaxe]

@Cobble: Constantly softclaiming doesn't help us at all. In fact, I'd say it hurts us. There is no in-between to claiming.

[Flameaxe]

If I say they might stop acting suspicious.

This post is completely, and utterly, terrible.

[Flameaxe]

we're lynching one of flameaxe, fritzler, ooba, porochaz, or populartajo.

I forget, why exactly are we limiting a lynch down to a list you, from what I can tell, arbitrarily came up with? Why exactly should I be following your lead here?

[Flameaxe]

we're lynching one of flameaxe, fritzler, ooba, porochaz, or populartajo.

I forget, why exactly are we limiting a lynch down to a list you, from what I can tell, arbitrarily came up with? Why exactly should I be following your lead here?

Cough cough cough.

[Flameaxe]

we're lynching one of flameaxe, fritzler, ooba, porochaz, or populartajo.

I forget, why exactly are we limiting a lynch down to a list you, from what I can tell, arbitrarily came up with? Why exactly should I be following your lead here?

Cough cough cough.

We're limiting the lynch to the list I arbitrarily came up with because my guilty result was on one of the people from that list. (The other names were included because they fit a similar profile, and not because they are particularly suspicious.)
You should follow my lead because this is a smalltown game, so my claim is supported by the flavour.

I see that no one else finds any of those five suspicious.

That's why the CR recruited this person.

It also means I didn't stand a chance of drawing people to the lynch we need without claiming; my attempts to do so were the reason for my obsession with getting people to focus on a small group.

I won't follow the CORRUPT cop in a smalltown game, thanks. (Even then, I doubt you can call this a smalltown game simply because we have professions listed on the first page. I've yet to see any connection between profession and role that can be seen as logical).

Yos' 1693 is 100% spot on as well.

[Flameaxe]

I'm glad the smoke and mirrors that is this fucking game have gone away a little. I'd also like to hear what Ludi has to say, so I'll wait to vote until a votecount.

[Flameaxe]

Vote: Cobblerfone

What bvoigt said. Willing to hop on a Ludi wagon as well.

[Flameaxe]

Ooba: Due to the flavor of Succession 1, all townies were called goons, including unrecruited ones. Despite this, I'm not exactly going along with Kinetic's logic here.

DGB: What post of yours details why I should be voting for Kat? I'm going to look for it anyway, but I'm not terribly opposed to a Kat lynch.

[Flameaxe]

Also, softclaim/will not explain further: cobbler's chance at being a recruit is low.

I won't explain further, but you just don't believe what I'm saying or are you just trying to waste your vote for the day so you can late wagon at deadline to avoid suspicion?

Yes, I know that last part was pointed, but I'm in a pointy mood today.

Don't plan on taking a softclaim as gospel. Sorry, but you'll need to do better than that. Plenty of people have said exactly what you "softclaimed", why should I believe you (in a cult game, nonetheless)?

[Flameaxe]

Vote: Cobblerfone

What bvoigt said. Willing to hop on a Ludi wagon as well.

Answered questions are answered.

[Flameaxe]

Ooba: Due to the flavor of Succession 1, all townies were called goons, including unrecruited ones. Despite this, I'm not exactly going along with Kinetic's logic here.

DGB: What post of yours details why I should be voting for Kat? I'm going to look for it anyway, but I'm not terribly opposed to a Kat lynch.

And the second part of this one for what its worth.

[Flameaxe]

DGB is probably town, so is Sera. SL I'm on the fence about. Not liking how he seems to care more about who recruited who rather than is X recruited. The former seems like more of a scum technique than a town one, with a scum trying to find the recruits of another cult when town just wants to find a cult period.

As for the cobblewagon: Its not hidden that I don't believe Cobble's claim. I found him scummy before, and I found the matter in which he claimed to be quite scummy. Hell, even his reasoning behind claiming seemed just plain silly. I fail to understand where the Seraphim comment is coming from, honestly. AND:

Vote: Cobble

. Nothing has changed regarding this vote from yesterday other than his ThAd "case". Mostly as a place to put my ideas in writing, here's where I'm sitting with cobble:

• His points against ThAd are horrifically weak and impossible to defend against. Using points like "he must have ulterior motives with the lists" and "he's trying TOO hard to be friendly" just sound stupid when you give it any thought. If we're calling Thad scummy for using the lists, then we might as well call the entire playerlist scummy for going along with it, yourself included. List or no list, it took ten votes to get a lynch out of it, and ten votes were given, and you seemed just fine to go along with it (the vote) yesterday. As for impossible to defend, there really isn't any way to make a reply to your "case" without saying anything along the lines of "nuh-uh!". I've generally found in situations like that, the case is pretty wishy-washy as it is. So yes, I think your case is wishy-washy at best.
  
• All this teamster meeting business is a massive waste of time, not only to the teamsters, but to everyone who has to read through it. 47 says that role is not the same as job, and I don't really see how meeting at a place on the map at night would do anything to make all the teamsters do anything special. Even if it did, you didn't exactly commit all that much to the meeting other than a few throwaway comments. When day two opened, you displayed some care or concern about the fact that the meeting didn't happen, only to turn around to say you didn't care once it became apparent that none of the other teamsters cared at all about the meeting. Like I said, this was, and still is, a waste of time, and has been from the start.
  
• 182, 184, and 190 are all terrible, terrible posts that reek of nothing but shameless rolefishing. Not to mention they all go back to the idea posted by Flay in 47 that job and role are different, which leads to the thought that those of the same roles do not have the same roles.
  
• 297 might be worse than all three of the above. The claim itself from cobble is NOT what should be seen as scummy. The fact that despite claiming an integral part of the role, he refuses to disclose information that would support his claim (aka: flavor). I fail to see any reason why explaining the flavor behind your unrecruitable-ness would do anything to hint too much at your role.
  
• Unrelated note: What was stopping any non-teamsters from joining the meeting? Wouldn't that have some sort of impact on the meeting if it happened?

I don't exactly know what else I can do to convince others beyond what is posted in this post. Perhaps you just aren't reading when I'm doing it? Reading is a good start.

As for voting you: Most of it comes from my dislike of your day one play. I found it to be rather worthless and fluffy, which is exactly what I expect from an early recruit. You spent more time on setup and recruiter speculation than actually doing what I would consider looking for a recruit. Posting a lot without saying much is another thing I looked for day one. And again, this thought process was NOT hidden throughout this game. Just because I don't always put my thoughts into a single post case, doesn't mean it isn't there, so please do some research before you start talking out of your ass.

[Flameaxe]

Flameaxe, who's scum other than cobbler?

PROTIP, READING. I JUST ANSWERED THIS QUESTION AN HOUR AGO.

[Flameaxe]

Regarding what changed: The first quote is quite clearly an opinion of what DGB's current actions are and what sort of tell I saw them as (something you actually say further down the post I didn't comment on, fun fact!). The second is an overall read. Nothing changed between the two posts to explain.

I considered xvart and Yos' town play to be strong day one. Not sure exactly what is supposed to come out of this. As for my reason to vote, I didn't "dislike you", I "found you scummy". I considered you a strong recruited read on day one, and nothing has stood out to me since then that would tell me otherwise. I don't see how something on day one makes a horrible reason for a day three vote when I don't feel like anything has changed. I thought it was good then, nothing changed in my mind, I think it's good now.

Regarding appearing overly consistent: Hooray more speculation that I can't defend myself against. Excuse me while I skip over replying to this line of logic. I certainly find it odd how you're going so strongly against me

now

that I stated I would be fine to vote you today, while you go on about how I may have been recruited N0. Tell me, if I am a recruit, when was I recruited? Might as well get right to the point, right?

I don't see where Sera is misrepping, in fact I only see you misrepping Sera (post 1802). He asked for a target out of Yos, but he never said anything about any result he may have. He isn't making any logic jumps, but you are by calling him out on "lying". As for ignoring ABR's guilty claim:

I thought we determined on page 5 that we should basically ignore everything Kinetic and ABR say? Why is this still a topic of discussion? It's not that complicated.

Re Chrono: Chrono can easily be seen as a probable recruit, as someone who was recruited for a good majority of S1. It wouldn't surprise me at least one recruit is a returning player.

Re LL/Cecily: While I agree with the thought behind Tajo's 905, something is just really bothering me about the playerslot. Cecily wasn't exactly anywhere near townie to me, and LL hasn't improved my view all that much. As unlikely as it may be, I'm finding this one difficult to just ignore.

EDIT: What Prozac said.

I didn't just say the bolded part to be humorous, you know.

[Flameaxe]

1911, 1912. Tell me if you have as much trouble reading post numbers as you do reading the game.

[Flameaxe]

1911, 1912. Tell me if you have as much trouble reading post numbers as you do reading the game.

Reading your posts, it feels like you're not bothering to read mine at all.

This is a helpful post.

[Flameaxe]

Flameaxe, how could Seraphim possibly know Yosarian was a targeting power role if its now been confirmed that when I jailkept Yosarian I roleblocked anyone actioning on Yosarian.

Plus your reads have changed from 'torn' to 'probably town' with no in between.

What I'm saying is that he never said he did know Yos was a targeting power. He asked for a target but never claimed anything of his own.

I already addressed the torn to probably town argument...

[Flameaxe]

1911, 1912. Tell me if you have as much trouble reading post numbers as you do reading the game.

Reading your posts, it feels like you're not bothering to read mine at all.

This is a helpful post.

Pardon the triple post, but...This essentially means "I have no idea what you're on about, HALP."

[Flameaxe]

Holiday weekend at a golf course means plenty of hours to work...Expect a better post later tonight if I get back early enough.

[Flameaxe]

1911, 1912. Tell me if you have as much trouble reading post numbers as you do reading the game.

Reading your posts, it feels like you're not bothering to read mine at all.

This is a helpful post.

Pardon the triple post, but...This essentially means "I have no idea what you're on about, HALP."

@Kat: I was expecting a reply to this, for the record.

On a similar note, I have little problem with the Kat wagon. I will say, however, that some of the votes on the wagon irked me a little.
@Ludi: What did you see in that iso that pushed you to a vote exactly?
@Cobble: Essentially the same question Ludi asks in 2094. Why does the fact that you have town reads that disagree with you dictate your own opinion?
@Batt: I'm assuming your vote is because of the lurking and post count, correct?
@LL: Lots of questions here! What makes you so positive that Prozac was a Kinetic recruit, exactly? Same question for why Andy was attempted to be recruited and failed. Am I just missing something giant here? What makes Kat odd? What about Kat being odd makes kat a good choice for a lynch? Why are you bothering with a question that is public information listed on the first post? Help me out here.
@DGB: It's probably listed somewhere in your posts and I'm missing it: Why Kat over Tajo?
@NS: What did tell you that you should vote, exactly?

So yeah, after all that...I don't have any issues with lynching Kat, but personally I'd prefer a LL lynch after thinking it over.

Unvote, vote: Lady Lambda

. I'll leave that there for now.

[Flameaxe]

So yeah, after all that...I don't have any issues with lynching Kat, but personally I'd prefer a LL lynch after thinking it over.

Unvote, vote: Lady Lambda

. I'll leave that there for now.

Really???

You're going from being the lone vote on Cobbler, to making yourself the lone vote on LLD?

Trying to fly under the radar much, Flameaxe?

If I'm trying to fly under the radar, I'm doing a pretty shitty job of it.

[Flameaxe]

Plus, I'm not going to make a post full of questions and not give anyone a chance to answer them.

[Flameaxe]

Something tells me I should do this.

Unvote

Vote: Katsuki

If you're wrong, DGB,

we will have words.

Unpleasant ones, at that.

\

My question was regarding this post, NS. What told you that you should vote Kat?

[Flameaxe]

It would be nice if some of these useless non-voters and useless voters voted Tanarin. Just so that we keep our options open.

Flameaxe, Bunnylover, Fritzler, Herodotus, springlullaby, Zdenek

I like my other option much better, but thanks for the generous offer!

[Flameaxe]

If there's no reason for me to unvote Cobble, why aren't you voting Cobble yourself? After all, he's "been scummy all game" to you.

[Flameaxe]

I don't think he's saying that we don't lynch on a power role claim. He's saying that if he claims information, and then flips town, that gives us information that we can consider confirmed with his flip.

[Flameaxe]

Cobblerfone, are you town?

Why are you wasting everyone's time with this question?

[Flameaxe]

Cobblerfone, are you town?

Yes.

OMG, I NEED AT LEAST A COUPLE OF HOURS TO ANALYSE THIS ANSWER.

I AM IN FULL AGREEMENT WITH TAJO.

[Flameaxe]

Seriously, you haven't pointed out any contradictions (except maybe your own). Tajo's logic in the two posts you referenced go pretty much hand in hand...

[Flameaxe]

Unvote, Vote: Kat

Now that we got SOME reply, as underwhelming as it is.

[Flameaxe]

The A isn't capitalized, for the record.

No, I cannot tell you what you might be thinking about last night.

Gathering my thoughts, will have a vote when I'm finished.

[Flameaxe]

Flameaxe unvoted right near hammer for Katsuki's claim (which he admits are underwhelming)

Question: WHO did I unvote? Answer: It wasn't Katsuki. (Assuming you're trying to make the point I think you are...) Actually, reading back on the end of the day, this comment is completely false. I never unvoted for a claim, in fact, my vote was never on Kat until AFTER the claim.

On an unrelated note, just to get it out there, my shortlist is looking like:

• Cobble - Nothing has changed regarding this thought except three more days passing.
  
• Lambda - I felt Cecily was pretty sketchy day one, but more importantly, the change in playstyle from day one to day two really stands out to me.
  
• Zdenek - Mostly gut, thus the third spot. Call it more of an "honorable mention" really. I know it was mostly V/LA related, but none of his posting seems to be very memorable or substantial to me. Skimming an iso reads to me like a lot of throwing out names, with little to actually push any wagon behind the names. The few times he does commit to an opinion, it is generally a one time deal, rarely committing to any sort of vote. His posting style feels very passive to me, something that stands out to me. (Queue OMGUS claim...now).
  
• Tajo - 100% gut. Not a very strong gut either. More of an irk than anything really. Will look into it further to hopefully get something out of it.

[Flameaxe]

Here we see Flameaxe doing what Porochaz did day one - shutting down discussion by attempting to predict the reaction to a comment he is making, rather than allowing the discussion to proceed naturally.

Here we see Zdenek picking out the one useless throwaway part of my comments towards him, and deciding to make another throwaway comment back, rather than proceeding with discussion naturally.

Two way street.

[Flameaxe]

Vote: Flameaxe

I like the part where you're avoiding any real content towards this vote. Its cute.

[Flameaxe]

Your post is obviously coming from scum since your comment doesn't apply to what I said, and you are just looking for some sort of fake symmetry.

Uh? What? My comment referred to the fact that in a paragraph of my opinions towards you, you chose only to respond to the part that mentions the OMGUS. Funny enough, this is essentially the same way I said it in my original post. If I'm looking for fake symmetry, you're looking for fake excuses. You can come at me (bro) as much as you want, but please for everyone's sake, use some damn logic.

[Flameaxe]

I want to say four. Three loose cannons, one cult doc.

[Flameaxe]

Mostly for my own knowledge, and to put it out there for anyone else to read, I'm going through anything Zdenek has opinioned (I made a word, yep) about me. Kind of an ISO, if you will.

Flameaxe's question was completely reasonable, but her answer completely dodged actually responding to the question, but instead posited a situation where Cobbler might have risked making a gambit with an unrecruitable claim.

Nothing worth commenting on really. I had a reasonable question.

So, I had some time today. Here is my list. I couldn't decide on the third, but here are two:

Flameaxe
Herodotus

Note, this is the SECOND post that even mentions me from Zdenek. Yet I am one of two people he thinks is lynchworthy day one (and assuming the list is in order, I am the number one lynchworthy target). Nothing from him at this point shows anything to support my placement on this list, and no votes ever supported it on day one.

I think the reactions of Fritzler, Flameaxe to Herodotus' list and investigation result are suspicious.

A wonderfully vague suspicion. That about sums up any opinion I have on this post. I will add that this is the only post of day two to mention me, as vague as it is.

Vote: Flameaxe

Seriously, Flameaxe basically has to be scum because of his LL vote. He was on Cobbler, who's been pretty scummy all game, and there is essentially no reason to unvote him. In the post where he unvoted it seemed like he acted as though his vote was on Katsuki. If you ask me, it was a move to put his vote in a place where it was more fluid.

Combined these two posts to save some quote blocks. There was every reason in the world to unvote cobble at that point. Well, one reason. A major reason: HIS WAGON WAS GOING NOWHERE YESTERDAY. I had given what I could to convince the rest of the town to go after Cobble, and it wasn't going anywhere. As I even mentioned in that same post, I was fully ready to move my vote to Kat, but Kat was L-1 at the time, and I was not ready for a hammer without at least hearing something from Kat. I made this clear.

I will say, as I said in my original reply to this post, if Cobble was as scummy as you make him out to be when you attack me, you too would be voting for Cobble, but you were not. In fact, at no point in this game have you voted Cobble yourself. You have, in a horrifically non-committal way, declared support for the wagon (and a few others for what its worth).

Here we see Flameaxe doing what Porochaz did day one - shutting down discussion by attempting to predict the reaction to a comment he is making, rather than allowing the discussion to proceed naturally.

A) What I said before: Nothing is stopping you from discussing naturally but you not actually discussing it. You're using a throwaway comment as an excuse to ignore anything I said in the post this was a reply to. I stand by my thoughts there, and expect them to be taken seriously.
B) Explain to me why this is scummy. Because a scum did it? It sure sounds like a personality trait much more than a tell.

I already replied to the posts since then.

The part people on the go should read:

Basically, the point I'm trying to get at: I've been a strong suspect of yours since day one. The only actual points you have made to support that are an incredibly vague suspicion on day two, and events of day three. Something does not work out here. I highly doubt I am the only one who notices this. If anything, this whole post supports my logic here.

Okay with this now:

Vote: Zdenek

. You've been hiding under the radar too long.

[Flameaxe]

Your paragraph of opinions was a waste of time. You say that your read is mostly gut, which is hardly something I can argue against, and considering how this game has progressed most of your points are irrelevant. More on this below. Plus you disown your case by saying that it was a result of skimming an iso, so you could potentially claim that missed anything that was brought up as an argument against what your said

.
Hey guys, someone just said that opinions in a mafia game is a waste of time. Quiet chuckle to myself. It originally started as a gut read, and through the middle of the post, I read through the iso and that supported my gut read. I hardly see how stating it was gut, and then referencing an iso (with points made from the iso, for what its worth) disowns any case. This just reads as you being lazy and finding any excuse to ignore my opinions towards you. (And if anything, you can't really call it a case...)

What's wrong with it:

You immediately try to cast doubt on the claim rather than consider whether is could be correct, and more importantly, you do it, by continuing to argue that there isn't a connection between profession and role. I have a problem with that because as scum, one would clearly want to have any claim available to him, rather than having to claim something compatible with his profession.

Also, now it seems fairly clear that there is some sort of compatibility between role and profession.

At the time, and given my own role, I had no reason to believe there was a compatibility between role and profession. Secondly, THIS IS A FUCKING CULT GAME. Of course I will doubt any claims, especially one as soft as it was. He hadn't revealed a guilty at that point, and as far as I was concerned, he was wasting everyone's time. In fact, I never doubted his role as a cop, I doubted the validity of his results due to him being a CORRUPT cop. I'd say that's me realizing the connection between profession and role more than you ever have. Try harder.

It's not a throwaway comment.

It's scummy because it is reactive, not scum hunting, and an attempt to preemptively disparage my response to you.

How is it not a throwaway comment? Yeah, its not scumhunting, but its four words, posted in (parenthesis) AFTER a paragraph of opinions you have already ignored. You have no right in this game to explain what scumhunting is or isn't.

First of all, making cases is not necessarily townie. Second of all, his good reasoning is pointing out that he unvoted Katsuki, nothing has changed about his thoughts on Cobbler, Cecily was "sketchy" and others, for instance me, had pointed out the change in LLD's play before that, he makes some sort of case against me, calling it gut, saying that the posts don't stand out (as though that is some sort of scum tell), it's true that I haven't pushed any wagons too hard, but Katsuki and Porochaz where obviously good lynches that I didn't need to push. Tajo is also a gut read.

I am not seeing good reasoning here.

Not making any cases is not necessarily townie, thus my reason for voting you. I pointed out that I didn't unvote Kat, good reading comprehension. In a cult game, culted players are more likely to attempt to hide under the radar. Your posts don't even come across as attempting to come out from the radar. Your posting style is very passive in this respect, and I don't like it. It's not that you haven't pushed any wagons too hard, its that you essentially haven't pushed any wagons

at all

. For instance, you have shown suspicion of me from DAY ONE, yet, I haven't heard any concrete reasoning, or even attempts to convince other players to join you until DAY FOUR, conveniently when I start pushing back at you. Part of the game is finding scum, the other is getting other people to agree with you. 50% doesn't make you townie.

[Flameaxe]

It was your paragraph of opinions that was a waste of time, not opinions in general and the problem was that you said that it was a result of skimming my iso.

I fail to see the problem. I had a gut read, I followed up on it with a skimming of an iso. Your iso isn't difficult to gain something from with a skim when there isn't much there.

No. You've been pressing the idea that there is no connection between roles and profession, but when it suits you, you argue based on the idea that there is a connection. Now, in one paragraph you go from saying that you had no reason to believe a compatibility between role and profession, to saying that you will doubt any claims because it is a cult game, to saying that you doubted his claim because he is a corrupt cop. This does not add up at all, and looks like you are searching for reasons for doubting him rather than just giving ones that make sense.

I pressed the idea that there is no connection between roles and profession on day one when I had no reason to believe there was any connection due to my own role and posts made by the mod. I even said in that post [to Hero day two], that I haven't seen any reason to believe this was a smalltown game. That was the last time I pushed the no connection.

I don't trust claims (and I mean information claims, and have always meant information claims) in a cult game because of one substantial reason. Recruiting a cop and using his ability to influence the town ended up being a main reason my cult won Succession 1. I'll have my suspicions on any player who trusts a claim this late in the game.

Again, I'll state that during this whole mess, Hero hadn't actually claimed a guilty on anyone in particular, and having my annoyance turn towards suspicion for the continuing the trend of softclaiming in this game really shouldn't seem all too farfetched.

The lynches on day 2 and 3 were obvious.

Wow, am I glad my vote is on you.

Day two started on June 17th, Hero claimed his guilty on June 24th. That is one week. That is half of the day. That is 50% of the day that the lynch was not "obvious", and 50% of the day that you did not put any reasoning out, vote me, or convince anyone to vote me. I call bullshit on day two.

Day three was an obvious lynch? I disagree. The Katsuki wagon didn't really take off until mid/late day, with plenty of counter-wagon potential (and attempts!). The Kat lynch was in no way a reason for you to ignore pushing a wagon on me. All you are giving here are blatant excuses, and not good ones.

[Flameaxe]

@Hero: To clarify:

The second ability pertains to Herod. Because we 'work the beat' together (cops), I know if he has been recruited that night or not. As it stands he has not been recruited on night one or night two.

Is this two-ways? (AKA, do you have the same information about Ludi?

[Flameaxe]

Can someone please point me to where this mysterious third faction is? Or why I should take anyone seriously who is discussing it?

[Flameaxe]

Can someone please point me to where this mysterious third faction is? Or why I should take anyone seriously who is discussing it?

Quite obvious if you think about it.
- Nobody is going to lie about his role this game - recruited or not recruited. Actions post-recruitment maybe, but not role.
- There's not going to be a kill-doc just for vig and kill-instead-of-recruiting-this-night cult choice (which is stupid in most situations anyway)
- Hence, a scum group exists.

Also, DGB makes up some weird logic to vote Darox in this page - Darox is definitely town.

Quite obvious that this speculation is just silly if YOU think about it. Hell, you were in Succession 1. You remember that game where there were two cults and no mafia factions, yet there was still a "kill-doc" role?

Seriously, are you trying?

[Flameaxe]

Bodyguard?

[Flameaxe]

The bodyguard in Succession 1 only protected from nightkills, and the only night kills came from the 3 oneshot unrecruitable vigs and the cult factions.

The fact that I protect against night kills isn't a point in favour of a third party mafia group.

This.

[Flameaxe]

Vote: Cobble

Something wants me to do this again. My guess is post 2948. I am also in favor of a massclaim. I'm always in the mood for a massclaim. [/pieisgood]

[Flameaxe]

Who do you want to go next? I'm willing.

Sure sounds a bit eager coming from the guy who has already claimed and unclaimed this game. #readytodoubtmorecobbleclaims

[Flameaxe]

Pretty sure everyone is still following the idea of popcorn claiming...aaaand....

Tajo next.

[Flameaxe]

vig

N1- inhim
N2- thad
N3- spring
N4- Seraphim


Lady lambda goes next.

Flavor. Thanks.

[Flameaxe]

Good to see xvart is paying close attention here.

[Flameaxe]

Oh. Bunnylover is V/LA. In that case, Flameaxe, go ahead.

Bunnylover also already claimed.

[Flameaxe]

15 players left, up to 5 cult. If we lynch wrong and cult hit, we're at 14 players and 6 cult, which is LYLO. (not to mention the fact our vigs have been absolutely godawful this game, {if they're still aligned with town}.)

I'm almost in favor of a massclaim here.

Yos: Is there any reason you skipped over the first person to actually mention the massclaim?

[Flameaxe]

Flavor:
Longtime clerk at the bank. The bank believes money is money, which after many years of dealing with the bank and the mob dealings, combined with the recent violence, has made me want to do something about it.

Vig flavor: My secruity training has let me try some vigilantisms. I can't kill the CRs, but I may be able to hack away at their associates.

It's something you said that was similar in my role pm.

Triple post, but help me connect the dots here. Softclaiming only helps you and Cobble, and in a cult game, hurts everyone else.

[Flameaxe]

Flameaxe- He understood what I meant and it answered his question. As to you not seeing the connection, then just know that I paraphrased my role pm.

You're still not being helpful. The fact that he understood does not help anyone but the two of you.

[Flameaxe]

I'm not asking for word for word, I'm asking for ANYTHING. If you expect any of us other people to follow along with the belief that you seem to follow, you need to help us follow it. You don't need to quote a damn thing to give us this.

PS: I'm not claiming.

[Flameaxe]

Because there is no reason to do so.

[Flameaxe]

I am in favor, but I cannot support a massclaim unless everyone does.

Spoiler alert: Not everyone does.

[Flameaxe]

A massclaim is useless unless everyone agrees to it. The other two who have not claimed are who I see as those people that don't necessarily agree to it. If not everyone follows along, it isn't really a "mass" claim is it? It's not a "everyone who agrees"claim.

In addition, I won't be claiming until the softclaiming stops. If we want to commit to a massclaim, thats fine. I expect full disclosure in a massclaim, and we have gotten far from that so far from a few people.

[Flameaxe]

Add on: Mind filling me in on the usefulness of this line of questioning? I don't see it.

[Flameaxe]

Because Flameaxe was supportive of a massclaim.

What you are asking me to do is no longer a massclaim. It isn't a massclaim if everyone doesn't agree/participate. As far as I can see, Yos won't be claiming at any point.

A massclaim is every player revealing everything about their role that they can paraphrase. That is not currently happening. Why do I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over?

Please answer my question in 3119, Cobble.

[Flameaxe]

What would being cult have to do with forgetting I am supportive of massclaiming? What would forgetting I was supportive of massclaiming point towards being cult?

[Flameaxe]

Right now, I believe that is flameaxe, reason being is that he is the most wishywashy person of the two on the massclaim stance. He wants it, but only if everyone wants it.

How does this make me cult beyond pure speculation?

[Flameaxe]

Uh, there was no opposition at that point? Context better?

[Flameaxe]

Addon: What benefit do I have to not claiming my role in a cult game? My role has no effect on my alignment.

[Flameaxe]

Because answering a question of why no one was claiming with "people started popcorning and this guy was the last popcorned" is totally pressure.

Yep. Totally pressure.

Besides that, I fail to see where the connection between your posts and me being cult is. Id love to at least try to defend something, but that's a bit difficult when nothing is there.

#fuckphoneposting

[Flameaxe]

This post is uniquely in favor of mass claiming and doesn't even suggest that he is opposed to it, regardless of any other opinions. Basically he is saying "keep mass claiming" and nowhere does he mention that mass claiming isn't good unless everyone is in agreement.

I was not, and am still not opposed to massclaiming, so don't go touting that as a point when its completely untrue. My point is, massclaiming only works when the MASS part of it is in effect, this, funny enough, includes every player agreeing to it. I didn't say it, because I assumed it was...well assumed.

As for what is the cult motivation for not claiming... it should be obvious. You have something to hide and maybe you didn't talk about what to fake claim in your QT.

You having a laugh, bro? If only I started the game with some sort of town role that I could use in case someone asks me to claim! OH WAIT, EVERYONE DID. You're better than logic like this, show me.

[Flameaxe]

More addons: Show me a player in this game that is in favor of a "everyone but two players that are opposed"-claim. Yos sure as hell doesn't seem like he will be claiming any time soon.

Hell, some players who have already claimed still have parts of the claim missing. If this is a mass-claim-what-you-feel-like, then yeah, I'm opposed.

[Flameaxe]

Why are people claiming? Argh

I feel your pain.

But it may also be too late at this point. With half of the players having claimed already, do you think it would be a good idea to continue, or to hold further claims?

We need to stop claiming.

I'm hoping that there is likely to be at least one more unclaimed unrecruitable townie, and it is absolutely imperative that the cult does not know who that is, at all cost.

Bolded part for emphasis. If Yos wants people to stop claiming, what makes you think Yos will be claiming in the next 48 hours? If one person refuses to claim, it isn't a massclaim anymore.

Is that applied-to-this-game-in-particular enough?

[Flameaxe]

But the point is you never once said anything to suggest this until you were asked to claim. You just kept plugging along, even saying "well we are mass claiming, who is next? Oh yeah, this person. Claim.

So what is scummy about it then? Obviously it must be pretty damn scummy to vote for the player you have rarely mentioned all game.

Give me a night that I was recruited. Humor me.

[Flameaxe]

My point is that even assuming one person will refuse to claim, does that eliminate the benefits of massclaim? What are the benefits to massclaiming in this particular game, and how are they lost?

I don't see any benefit to 90% of the game revealing information at this point. We haven't gained anything from it so far except for learning what roles certain people have that would not have claimed in a normal setting (ones without any upfront information). Actually, the more I think about it, the more I realize how stupid the massclaim really was/is. All we have done so far is outted protective roles and unrecruitables (which, really, shouldn't have claimed as such). If anyone had any useful information that Ludi seemed to think we would get out of this massclaim when he first proposed it, it probably would have been out in the open before we even considered a massclaim. Yes, this is me claiming that I have no useful information, for the record. Yes, I'm flip-flopping a bit here. It is what it is.

[Flameaxe]

Vote: Cobble

Something wants me to do this again. My guess is post 2948. I am also in favor of a massclaim. I'm always in the mood for a massclaim. [/pieisgood]

For what its worth.

And while I'm here, am I the only one that reads Bunnylovers post as essentially the same thing I have said to different people over the past two pages? #stopcopyingme

[Flameaxe]

Well, directing the cult-doc kind of leads us into a position where Kinetic knows who is recruitment-protected...

[Flameaxe]

Better to have a chance at Kinetic failing a recruitment this late in the game. Your plan sets us up to fail in that respect. If Kinetic knows who isn't cult-protected, he can essentially get a free recruit each night. Unless Batt is perfect with his vig skills, it doesn't work. This doesn't even consider the worst case scenarios of any vigs being recruited or the number of recruits already being at five. Those cases make it even less likely to work.

[Flameaxe]

Which doesn't fix the problem of them being recruited already...at all?

[Flameaxe]

Hero can investigate them

I agree, we should totally rely on the claimed cop that has avoided revealing anything past his night one result. Your plan making skills are impeccable.

[Flameaxe]

Sounds like a pretty big assumption on an already shaky plan. Ill pass.

[Flameaxe]

I like the part where xvart attempts to set up a second lynch.

[Flameaxe]

Give me a night that I was recruited. Humor me.

Addon: I was expecting an answer to this, xvart.

[Flameaxe]

Cobber, why am I town?

This.

and he's softclaimed to be a PR

Assuming you're referring to me....what are you on about?

[Flameaxe]

Role-wise you would be more useful as long as you're town.

Should I understand this?

Unvote, Vote: Zdenek

. Still relevant to my vote.

[Flameaxe]

BTW, ooba, that is not my starting place.

This.

[Flameaxe]

Let me take a minute to defend myself from Cobble's brilliant case.


Oh wait.

[Flameaxe]

@Amrun: Perhaps I was mistaken then.

I don't care anymore. Short of a Cop-result one of xvart, zdenek, and Flameaxe is definitely getting lynched and that's making me happy.

PREDIT: Woah, L-1 is happening. Out of the two I probably prefer xvart.

VOTE: xvart

Watch zdenek flip cult.

Every time you post, I want to vote you again. You're playing the "spew nonsense for 130 pages and never really commit to anything for longer than 2 pages thing" beautifully.

[Flameaxe]

As of right now, I really don't have any interest in location claiming.

[Flameaxe]

You know that Zdenek has been at L-1 since Wednesday, right? You also know that ML's last post states that he was going to hammer in his next post?

If this is a quickhammer, its the stupidest quickhammer in the history of the site.

[Flameaxe]

Wait, ML, are you going to say that cult already won?
That quickhammer was horrible.

Everyone is whining about this but no one is saying that it's scummy.

It is, especially if zdenek flips town.

What makes it scummy compared to every other vote on the wagon? #justcurious

[Flameaxe]

Saw a post that indicates xvart and Flameaxe weren't on the same team yesterday. The one where he votes him over quite a legitimate reason.

So now that my memory's refreshed I'm definitely set on Flameaxe.

Just curious as "A post indicated xvart and Flameaxe weren't on the same team" goes to "Flameaxe is scum". Hefty logic jump is hefty! (Lets not even mention the last post you made yesterday had a top three including *shocker* both xvart and myself).

Vote: Cobble

, for overall crappy posts towards the end of yesterday in addition to everything else I've said in my iso.

[Flameaxe]

Saw a post that indicates xvart and Flameaxe weren't on the same team yesterday. The one where he votes him over quite a legitimate reason.

So now that my memory's refreshed I'm definitely set on Flameaxe.

Just curious as "A post indicated xvart and Flameaxe weren't on the same team" goes to "Flameaxe is scum". Hefty logic jump is hefty!

(Lets not even mention the last post you made yesterday had a top three including *shocker* both xvart and myself).

Vote: Cobble

, for overall crappy posts towards the end of yesterday in addition to everything else I've said in my iso.

I believe that was his first post of toDay.

Point taken. That makes it worse in my eyes though.

[Flameaxe]

I'm still not claiming. What am I ignoring?

[Flameaxe]

I'm not claiming because there is no town benefit to do so.

[Flameaxe]

From my perspective, I should say. I don't see any benefit to claiming.

[Flameaxe]

There's nothing to ignore, you put him in a top 3 list...Keep spouting how I'm scummy without actually putting any backing or reasoning behind it (no, "he hasn't been voted" doesn't count). It's pretty cute.

@Batt: I changed my mind. Through Yos' refusal, I realized I didn't have any benefit to claim. The only benefit to claiming in a game like this is to get information out, if I had information, I would have claimed it. I said this yesterday, almost exactly the same thing.

[Flameaxe]

@Batt: Yeah, I no longer see any benefit to claiming. So what? Surely that can't be your only reason for "Your (should be you're) scum. And I will not unvote you."

Fuck it. Don't unvote me. It sounds like a great excuse for you to coast through the day. Have at it.

[Flameaxe]

The only benefit to claiming in a game like this is to get information out, if I had information, I would have claimed it. I said this yesterday, almost exactly the same thing.

And requoting my own post for emphasis. Beyond this, what specific gain would there be from me claiming right now (or yesterday, fwiw).

[Flameaxe]

@Cobble: Define "main". And while we're at it, give a better reason than that copout bullshit answer.

@Batt: Again I say, there must be another reason I'm 100% scum. I refuse to believe that the claim situation is your only reason. If it is, pull your head out of your ass. For everyone's sake. (And stop being a shitty vig, while we're at it.)

[Flameaxe]

@Cobble: Define "main". And while we're at it, give a better reason than that copout bullshit answer.

Thanks.

[Flameaxe]

lol now you just sound silly. Lets kill the probtown watcher because I'm so out of touch with the game!

I'm actually laughing at this.

Question: What night was I recruited?

[Flameaxe]

I also fail to see where the impressive two scum kills come from.

[Flameaxe]

Flameaxe's refusal to claim has reached a distracting and anti-town level.

If my not claiming is distracting, the people who post nothing but bitching regarding it is just as distracting.

On a related note, is this post supposed to have a meaningful purpose? Because it doesn't.

[Flameaxe]

The only answer to your only question: To be honest, I don't think I can really say that I expected anyone else to not go along with the massclaim. Around the time of Yos' refusal to claim, I changed my mind regarding the benefits to claiming (which I guess can be seen in the tone of my posts). Most of that came from the logic that came with Yos' not going along with the massclaim, most of it rang true to me. On a related-ish note, I did recently (this morning at work) remember our night talk discussions in Succession 1. Each night we started by copying a post that was made in thread summarizing claims made in thread. Most of our night talk discussion went around who claimed what and who we want to add to the cult. Yos can probably confirm this in some way if necessary. I can try to find the post too if I really need to.

Short answer: I wasn't necessarily planning for it, because I didn't expect it at the time of my agreement. I was caught up in the whole pie_is_good style massclaim support and was a bit clouded in retrospect. Can't change the past, meh.

Claiming that I have no useful information is what I feel is worthy of claiming at this point in the game. I don't have any major issues with a CS lynch. The logic behind it seems pretty solid. I'd still like a Cobble lynch (shocker) too. Might go back and summarize where I sit with him, aka add to that post I made a few days back.

[Flameaxe]

No, actually yesterday you said claiming was only beneficial if everyone else did it, and you wouldn't claim unless everyone else did, too.

I said a massclaim is only beneficial if everyone does it. Difference. My opinion on claiming changed through the day.

Distraction tactics. "If you can't tell me what night I was recruited then I can't possibly be recruited. I already said yesterday that I think you were recruited N3 or earlier. Since you generated this discussion point do you have a reason that you were not recruited these nights? In fact, now that we have a missing/unclaimed roleblocker my suspicion of why I think you were/are refusing to claim and the way it transpired makes me believe you have been recruited and can't claim because of the flavor confirming your actions by other people. You've been using your "town power" for scummy purposes.

I don't see how asking someone what day they think I was recruited if they are soooooo sure I'm scum (like Batt seems to be) is distracting.. When someone sits here and calls me scum because I refuse to claim, yeah, I'd like to prod them to actually give something scummy beyond that to show what day it was. The question wasn't directed at you this time. Also, I'm that missing RB? Do you miss the part where my profession doesn't match the flavor according to hero? (Yes this is an anti-claim of RB)

@Flameaxe: Main as in probable earlier recruit. I have no idea what the other part is refering to.

Because someone asked you why I was a better lynch than Conspiracy. Saying "I'm the main recruit" isn't an answer. It's completely meaningless, doesn't actually commit to any opinion. I was asking you to actually put something out there for a change. Not like you really have all game.

[Flameaxe]

Cobble, can you explain why you think Flameaxe is a better lynch choice than ConSpiracy?

Because Flameaxe feels like the "main" scum. However, since Hero seems to have claimed he was roleblocked(?) And the flavor implies it's not Flameaxe. Then the occupation with the most likely flavor is ConSpiracy. (who is a City Councilperson.)

That's what is in my PM (although you probably could have guessed it anyway if you were fakeclaiming).

I was hoping for Alarmist personally.

Except that it wasn't that question at all. So, if you will, better reasons please.

[Flameaxe]

@Hero: At least in the case of Cobble, I'm trying to get anything out of him. He's been spouting on about how I'm scum off and on for the better part of the past two game days without much of a reason. You may not be able to prove that someone is scum, but someone should at least be held accountable to give a reason. I can't convince someone that they are wrong when their entire case is that "I feel like the main scum".

@Cobble: On that note...I'd still like reasons. "You're the main cult" and "I think you're likely to flip cult" don't help. At all. Give why. Actually pretend to convince others to follow your (lack of) logic.

tl;dr: I'm not planning on moving my vote any time soon.

[Flameaxe]

Why not just go for the jk then?

This may be one of the most logical posts I've ever read.

[Flameaxe]

*looks at first post with roles revealed* I don't think so.