Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[xvart]

/confirm

[xvart]

So... should we start dabbling in WIFOM of who each of them would have picked? And, if they have one recruit and we lynch that person Day 1 does that mean that faction is eliminated? I wouldn't be surprised if, since we started on D1, that each of them had a recruit randomly assigned. Otherwise it doesn't make much sense to me (unless they could pick in pre game).

[xvart]

I wouldn't be surprised if one/both of ABR Kinetic had not recruited until late in the pre-game to float out who would be a good target or a good target range to recruit from. And ABR saying he knew they both had recruited is clearly a lie, which furthers my speculation (unless he tried to recruit and failed due to Kinetic picking the person he recruited causing his recruit to fail; which makes me wonder if there is a white flag clause that if the N0 recruit fails they get a backup so they don't insta-die).

Thoughts by people who have stronger interactions with players on this list would be appreciated.

I don't think I've played with either, but I've read games with both of bvoigt and ThAdmiral in them and I think they would both be good recruits N0.

Or better yet, we can just hunt scum the way we always do, and pay no heed to the sirens.

The problem is the scum pool is presumably tiny right now so we can't really hunt scum the way we always do.

Who has played extensively with Kinetic? We need an expert.

I've only played one game with Kinetic a long time ago (Game of Thrones mafia) and I was NKed N1. In that game Kinetic bamboozled everyone else in the town with pointless discussion about name claiming, game mechanics, and other waste of time nonsense during the first day phase. I think he got scared when people started mentioning his name, even in passing.

I'm still surprised that I'm being rated highly. In my own estimation I'm a mediocre player at best, with occasional flashes of insight, and prolonged periods of... 'meh' quality play. Selected by Both ABR and Kinetic as a potential recruit for the other, yet recruited by neither, feel free to wifom that.

This makes me think Chrono was actually recruited. Why would he demean his overall play twice in 1.5 hours and go into the WIFOM analysis that would better be served by a recruiter? And, the whole "care to tell us how many you recruited" just seems like a throw away, forced conversation with no obvious point.

VOTE: Chronopie

[xvart]

No. Thanks for the contrived case to get heat off you.

My contrived case must not have worked since I still feel the "heat" on me like a thousand burning suns. AHHHHHH! MY EYES!

[xvart]

Us teamsters need to stick together. Although, I don't like xvart's latest response. Caught scum?

The irony, so-to-speak, of my post is that DGBs case on me is based on a timestamp. Honestly, I get the idea of picking from a pool and I agree with that as a jumping off point.

With that in mind, I encourage everyone to read Chronopie because he looks as close to a recruit as we are going to get at this point in the game:

• Middle of the road player D1 attention wise;
  
• Diminishes his level of play when given a slight amount of attention for being a possible recruit target;
  
• Employs WIFOM arguments that would best be used by the mob bosses to muddle the waters; and,
  
• Repeatedly has back chat with the Cult Recruiters and worthless questions that he knows will never get a legitimate answer.

I can totally see how whoever gets lynched is going to be super pissed if he/she is town due to the lynch being solely based on circumstantial WIFOM. Especially since everything after the initial wagon gets rolling is going to only be compounded by nods and winks from ABR and Kinetic fueling the WIFOM fire.

How can you be so sure that something is a lie unless you are directly involved in it somehow?

Do you think Mr. Flay would have said "

Oh hai ABR; just FYI Kinetic has made his recruitment choice so you both are good to go. If there is any other inside information about your opponents team I'll make sure to pass that on to you. Toodles.

"?

---

And by the way, I'm terribly disappointed in everyone in this game as it appears I was the only person who actually attended Nick Civillia's funeral...

[xvart]

Yeah, he's caught for the wrong reasons. That can be very frustrating.

Oh DGB; I truly love our little chats. I'm growing increasingly aware of how much D1 in this game is more than likely just going to be town on town mudslinging.

No, you filthy misleading recruit, Chronopie gets lynched easily. Chronopie isn't it. Nice try.

Citations, please? Although I must concede some because I went back and looked and it was ABR who originally put Chrono on the "pivotal" list; although from the other side I could see that as a nice little ploy. DGB - why do you think ABR put Chrono on the "pivotal list" if he is lynched easily?

[xvart]

On another note, I could see Prozac being recruited since he had announced V/LA for an extended period of time in the sign up thread.

[xvart]

Okay, I think Yosarian might be the other recruit.

the

other

recruit.

Easy mode on?
UNVOTE: Spring
VOTE: Cobblerfone

I can see this as legitimate since Cobb had not said definitively that the person he was voting (populartajo) was a recruit.

[xvart]

What are you going on about? Two recruiters. IF xvart is one, Yosarian is the speculated other. Though, I guess we shouldn't assume that there's only two. It would be rather odd for there to be only one recruit per team in N0 I think.

My vote's on Tajo because of something in an ongoing game that he's dead in. I would switch to xvart, but I'm waiting for RaudhrGarm.

Nope. Not buying it. The logic/priority list here is flawed because it wouldn't be odd for there to only be one recruit D1; plus, even if there was, you said "the other recruit" meaning one additional, which contradicts your statement about there being more than one recruit per team; and, what does RaudhrGarm saying I'm a VT have to do with populartajo and why are you waiting on him to allegedly move your vote to me?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Cobblerfone

[xvart]

Thanks, that's exactly the type of comment I was hoping for:

You were hoping for me to point out the inconsistencies in your logic? Also, you didn't answer my questions posed to you.

[xvart]

You were hoping for me to point out the inconsistencies in your logic? Also, you didn't answer my questions posed to you.

I didn't know we teamsters all had different roles. I also didn't know if we all had the same role. I won't say anything else.

I was settling for a policy lynch.

No no no. These questions:

and, what does RaudhrGarm saying I'm a VT have to do with populartajo and why are you waiting on him to allegedly move your vote to me?

DGB - why do you think ABR put Chrono on the "pivotal list" if he is lynched easily?

I don't give a rat's tutu, ABR and Kinetic are dead to me.

Humor me?

Desperate, too.

This is most likely our one shot to snap one of the cults before it gets out from under us. If we kill off a cult today then we actually might have a chance to win.

Are we not all in agreement that the mafia groups probably each have one recruit?

I'm in agreement; but Cobble is all over the place and backpedaling over how many people he thinks have been recruited based on what gets him out of hot water.

Diminishes his level of play when given a slight amount of attention for being a possible recruit target

What makes you say this?

This post. And this one.

[xvart]

? Backpedaling. All over?

Yes; backpedaling. All over.

Okay, I think Yosarian might be

the other recruit.

What are you going on about? Two recruiters. IF xvart is one, Yosarian is the speculated other. Though, I guess we shouldn't assume that there's only two.

It would be rather odd for there to be only one recruit per team in N0 I think.

The other recruit, meaning one recruit in addition to the one you think has already been identified. Conveniently, once questioned, it would suddenly be odd/unlikely for there to be only one recruit per team.

VOTE: Popular Tajo

I don't think I'm allowed to say why. But he's a "doctor". I'd recruit the doctor even

if he weren't guranteed to be a "role-doctor".

It was more like me trying to

not lynch a potential PR.

Your first statement makes me believe that you would have recruited a doctor name role on the off chance that he would actually be a doctor; otherwise you are saying that you would have recruited him just because he had doctor in his name... Then you go on to say that you were trying to avoid lynching a potential PR, which your previously suggested is who you would have recruited. If the recruiters are behaving in the same manner that you are you should be lynching that person. And, your bail on that wagon makes no sense because you wanted to avoid lynching a potential PR so why did you jump on that wagon to begin with. You are obviously trying to sneak onto whatever wagon you can without making waves and then when you do make waves change your story.

I didn't know we teamsters all had different roles. I also didn't know if we all had the same role. I won't say anything else.

I was settling for a policy lynch.

Would you rather policy lynch someone or someone you think is scum?

Did you miss her post where she said that the timestamps weren't a reason for calling you scum?

No, I didn't miss it. But out of the four people she identified as potential scum picks, I was selected because I had posted less frequently than the others (i.e. the timestamp).

I do want to talk about we plan on doing when Xvart close to a lynch. Making someone claim in this case doesn't work, since everybody has a claim ready. So, we will just WIFOM them to death (but like, a good WIFOM).

I have no intention of claiming if I am strung up to L-1 with an intent to hammer because it will matter naught since role has no bearing on alignment. And, I don't want Kinetic/ABR to know if I have a role that would be beneficial to them or not so they can WIFOM over whether or not to recruit me if somehow my wagon falters. I am aligned with town and if I get up to L-1 there is no benefit to claiming.

xvart does look a little frayed around the edges in his replies, but I'm unsure whether he has played with DGB before.

DGB and I have played together several times and I think we usually have a petty bickering and mud slinging contest against each other one way or the other. I don't think either of us has actually ever successfully identified the other as scum during those times.

The example of good play that you provided occurred in Post 97, and Ludi suggest Chronopie as a possible recruit in 83 and Rampage suggested it in 95, so I'm having a hard time buying your argument.

First of all, thank you. I thought there was someone else that identified Chronopie as a good recruit but missed it when rereading.

• Ludi suggested Chrono as a recruit in 83;
  
• ABR suggested Chrono as a recruit in 95;
  
• Chrono is self deprecating in post 97;
  
• Chrono is again self deprecating in 116.

Once identified as a decent player and good recruit on N0 he starts saying how he wouldn't be a good recruit. That is the chronology I'm talking about.

[xvart]

I switched votes didn't I? If someone's more suspicious, I'll switch again.

Yes, you switched votes but well after you should have and only under pressure to do so. In fact, you refer to people as caught scum and identifying people as scum and "the other scum" such that you might have switched votes here, definitely should have switched votes here, and barring none of those switches, should have switched votes here.

[xvart]

Xvert was exactly who I was thinking of in my post on page 2, long before DGB attacked him. He's one of the most logical day 1 recruitment choices; have you ever seen Xvert get lynched on day 1 of a game? I don't believe I have, at least not as far as I can remember.

Full disclosure: I've never been lynched D1, and I think I have only been lynched 2 or 3 times total. What day were you recruited in Succession 1?

On the other hand, an unrecruitable fakeclaim makes a lot of sense for a recruit to make. You wouldn't have to worry about the other side trying to recruit you and finding out your alignment that way, for one thing.

If I was ABR or Kinetic I would tell my N0 recruit to claim unrecruitable if put under pressure.

Cobble

- care to elaborate on flavor behind your unrecruitableness?

Also, as others have said, it would be foolish to completely ignore Kinetic and ABR because they are interested in killing the opposing recruits. Obviously it must be taken with a grain of salt. Plus, they can't actively or strongly hunt someone on their own team in case the other mob uses their influence to get that wagon going or the town agrees with it, so in a sense we will need to parse out the bussing like any game. From participation so far I get the feeling that Kinetic is going to be much more tight lipped than ABR in this area but we'll see.

ABR and Kinetic

- do you guys have the typical activity level as everyone else?

Also, in Succession I there was a recruiter mechanic that interfered with voting for a lynch. The recruiter could sacrifice his night action to remove a vote from anyone, so I imagine there will be some sort of mechanism in this game as well, but probably more powerful considering the white flag mechanism. I think we should collectively agree that if there are any town actions that interfere with a lynch that it should not be used today for any reason; so if any shenanigans happen with the lynch (remove votes, pardons the lynch, etc.) we know it is a mob motive and can act accordingly.

Did we make a collective decision on whether or not we should discuss players who are obv not recruited N0? I don't see the harm as long as it is prefaced with knowing that it goes out the window D2.

Once identified as a decent player and good recruit on N0 he starts saying how he wouldn't be a good recruit. That is the chronology I'm talking about.

No it wasn't. What you said was:

Diminishes his level of play when given a slight amount of attention for being a possible recruit target

It's not really the same to say that someone diminishing their level of play as to say that they are being self-deprecating.

Seriously? You are going to argue semantics and syntax with me over this? They are the same thing in intent. The obvious point of my post was he was diminishing his level of play and/or being self deprecating to allude to/show how unlikely it was that he was recruited; and it was done at a time when he had very little if any support of actually being lynched. So now the real question is are you recruited and just using the classic scum tactic of arguing semantics to look like you are participating?

Zdenek post at the bottom of page 8, makes me wary that he seems to be strongly in favour of cutting out the newbies as potential recruits which includes himself

I don't like that Porochaz bothered to say this, but ignored that DGB and Yos decided to eliminate high-profile players from consideration as recruits.

I don't feel that this is an appropriate or adequate comparison. I can't put into words what I'm trying to say here yet, but I'll come back to it.

Zdenek

- why are you still voting Fritz? And can you explain the reasoning behind your original strong recruit target list? I think I see some logic behind it (however flawed it might be) but it seems inconsistent so I'll let you explain first.

[xvart]

Xvart, I took your use of the word diminishing to mean that you thought he actually started playing worse as a result of it being suggested that he was recruited, as opposed to just being self-deprecating. I think the two things are quite different.

Okay. I should have said "diminished self perception of his quality of play" or something like that.

I am voting Fritz because I think he was a reasonable choice to be recruited. He was also self-deprecating about his play. In an earlier post he told us that he walked a mile to get cell reception to make a post, but his most recent post was quite casual. I don't mean any of this to be damning, but it certainly doesn't give me a reason to think that he wasn't recruited, so my vote stays.

As far as my list goes:
I removed Bunnylover, bvoigt, Cecily, Cobblerfone,, Raudhr, Dry-Fit, Nobody Special and ThAdmiral because of newness or my experiences playing with them. I should note that I kept Ludi because I thought he was an alt.

I removed Katsuki because Ludi removed him for being too volatile.

I kept people with positions in the town that seemed like they might come with abilities that could be useful. I am aware that Mr. Flay said that their wasn't necessarily a relation between game role and town-position, so this was essentially an arbitrary way to reduce the list. I made a judgement call to remove the doctor at this point. That left me with

Fritz L. R. Hernandez, City Councilperson
Herodotus Greco, Corrupt Cop
Mr. Sam Ludi, Corrupt Cop
Charles "Chaz" Poro, Business Owner
Ms. Spring Lullaby, Banker
Anahito Xvart, Teamster

Okay; that makes more sense. I saw your post about voting based on occupation and then saw similar occupations (corrupt cop) which fit that mold; but I couldn't figure out why you eliminated the other duplicate occupations, i.e. teamsters.

Xvart- Gets attention thrown on him, makes shitty case on Chrono that fails, shifts to Cobbler who was already looking suspicous with another bad point (the whole "other recruit"). ISO 5 has him trying to chake the confidence of anyone voting him (or anyone really) that the majority of the day will be town on town.

Is there any frame of reference where D1 will not be dominated by town on town violence? It's most like what, 21:2:2? With a lynch threshold of 13 and likely only two voting scum, the wagon at best would be almost 85% town. The whole point of my alleged "chaking" was the fact that everything I said is simply true, and I was referencing DGB who is town and pushing a marginally weak case on me (who is also town). Since I was in the middle of it I was starting to fully realize the town on town violence, since DGB wouldn't be so apparent and front and center as a recruit. The recruits are going to be the people in the back of the room trying to blend in without making waves. They are also going to be the people who are in the same category but misstep and then bumble along, backpedal, etc.

In that case, don't you think you were misrepping the case on you?

Looking back, I suppose I did, although that wasn't my intent. The full scope of my quote was the fact that I wasn't feeling any pressure (hence the thousand suns and AHHHH comments) since I had two or three votes because there wasn't much to the reason she selected me over the others. I even recognized that I agreed with thought process of narrowing down a pool and working from there, but personally didn't feel like it was a good enough reason to vote someone; especially now, at this game state, when a later comment of hers somewhat undermines the whole process when she said that she hated people who had lives and didn't devote themselves to the game, or something like that.

[xvart]

EBWOP: messed up the numbers and the number of votes. There are 27 in the game, but only 25 voting, and obviously Kinetic and ABR can't vote, so it should be

Is there any frame of reference where D1 will not be dominated by town on town violence? It's most like what,

23:1:1

? With a lynch threshold of 13 and likely only two voting scum, the wagon at best would be

just over 83%

town. The whole point of my alleged "chaking" was the fact that everything I said is simply true, and I was referencing DGB who is town and pushing a marginally weak case on me (who is also town). Since I was in the middle of it I was starting to fully realize the town on town violence, since DGB wouldn't be so apparent and front and center as a recruit. The recruits are going to be the people in the back of the room trying to blend in without making waves. They are also going to be the people who are in the same category but misstep and then bumble along, backpedal, etc.

[xvart]

Ugh... apparently I didn't actually post earlier today and now don't have it.

Regarding cobbler's claim, I remember seeing it as him responding to the issue of being sure that xvart was town because cobbler was guessing xvart might be unrecruitable because they had the same role name. So I don't think much of the attacks on him over a scum-serving claim. The seed for his claiming was planted before the first votes on him. So if that was a scumplot, it was absurdly subtle.

This is a valid point, and something I need to look more into. I'm going to go back and look at the progression of Cobbler's posts on us having the same role and see how that unraveled, but I agree that it is unlikely that it was a planned elaborate setup simply because it would be too complicated this early in the game and could fall apart pretty easily if not executed perfectly. But again, I need to look at it more in detail.

I actually like Batt as the second recruit. I'm think Kinetic went after Batt and ABR after Yos, for what it's worth.

In my earlier post that never posted I Batt had pinged my recruitdar for some reason but I can't remember why. I'll try and dig it up when I'm looking at some other things.

Re: xvart wagon. Im really torn on xvart since he isnt usually suspected early days, so I dont know if his reactions are scumtells or nulltells. Xvart, could you show me some games where you have been suspected early?

Honestly, I can't remember being in a game where I was suspected early; but I'll go back through my completed games and see if I can find some where I received a decent amount of suspicion or where I was lynched.

Actually anyone from the game I guess could answer that. It'll save me the looking.

It was a time based mechanism, so whoever sent the first pm recruiting someone recruited (barring any unrecruitable, protection, etc.), as was the case with Seraphim. Both recruiters targeted him N0 and when I was recruited N1 we operated under the false assumption that the reason the recruitment failed was because he was the other recruiter.

/prodded. So soon.

Re: S1's mechanics: Recruit OR Kill, the CRs had to pick which, and couldn't do both the same night,

But the cult/mafia groups could still kill after CR death (obv not relevant for this one, CRs are stumps)

I doubt there's more scum than the two Mafia Groups. Introducing more than 3 sides in a cult game would be a headache.

--

Out of curiosity, what colours are the cults this game?

Interesting how Chrono just sort of disappears shortly after I start calling him out as being a recruit then comes back with this fluff post. I expect I'll be returning my vote here if it moves.

I'm also thinking about Succession I and if there are similar vig roles out there. The problem with the vig's is they need to shoot well to give us a chance, but we also don't want them waiting too long and falling into the mob hands. This might be a radical (possibly stupid) idea but would it be worth discussing maybe setting up a list of people to kill tonight and use all the vig bullets before the Cult can use them?

[xvart]

NS -5 (confirm, simile, jokish remark, votes/participates, apology of inactivity)
Dry-fit 6 (4 before I posted) (confirm, finds cobbler scummy but unlikely recruit, apology of inactivity, catch up post/vote, asks 2 questions, spam/scum day post)
Cecily -6 (confirm, participate, participate/vote, participate, participate, activity promise)
Katsuki -7 (confirm, mechanic speculation, activity increase promise, hasn’t read/will lurk, participate, participate, explanation of lurk post)
Bunnylover- 5 (confirm, vote, role speculation, participate, participate)
Populartajo- 6 (confirm, reading, participate/vote, participate, participate, participate)
Seraphim- 6 (confirm, participate, participate, participate, participate/vote, promise of post)
RaudhrGarm- 4 (confirm, participate/vote, participate, apology of inactivity/v/la)

This might be a pretty good starting point for a list to exhaust our vig kills if we want to discuss going that route. More to come later tonight when I catch up.

[xvart]

/still here.

I still think we should be looking at the mid-ranged players rather than the vets or newbs.

/lurk mode re-engage

Seriously? You haven't made a content post in over 220 posts. Why did you go underground when the attention shifted off of you? Did you think you could slink into the background?

[xvart]

Re: xvart wagon. Im really torn on xvart since he isnt usually suspected early days, so I dont know if his reactions are scumtells or nulltells. Xvart, could you show me some games where you have been suspected early?

• Lay of Leithian
  - Reasonable suspicion D1; town.
  
• Pledge of Allegiance
  - Reasonable suspicion D1; third party.
  
• Purgatory Mafia
  - Lynched D3; mafia.

For the record, the first two links I'm embarrassed to be posting since my play was terrible; but they were my first two large themes. I just scanned my "view your topics" list and those were the ones that jumped out at me.

[xvart]

I am leaving early tomorrow morning for Hawaii so I will be

V/LA tomorrow while traveling and possibly a day later depending on how we get settled and adjust to the time change

.

I plan to post again later tonight between packing.

[xvart]

@xvart: Your opinions of Spring, Cobbler, and Yos2, please?

My opinion on Cobbler should be pretty evident, although I might be in the middle of changing that opinion once I get an opportunity to look back. I tend to agree with Yos2 about no harm in asking recruiters questions; nothing ventured nothing gained. I haven't seen anything inherently cult like in his behavior and anyone that is going out of his/her way to actively participate is more than likely not recruited D1. Spring who?

Limited Access

for the next couple weeks, study break leading to semester exams.

Just a heads up.

--

And the Cobber votes are precisely what I meant about we should be focusing on mid-tier players rather than vets or newbs. >.>

This guy is recruited.

If Cobbler was cruitscum, he'd be lurking harder right now.

You mean lurking as in what Chronopie has been doing since forever ago?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Chronopie

Yosarian2, how do you think and play when you were confirmed cult in the previous succession mafia? What was your thought process, how did you act, and what are you seeing in Kinetic and ABR play that reflects or doesn't reflect this.

He basically spun lies. Honestly, I think that was the most fun I had in a mafia game in a long time when both of us were outted mob, even though I knew there was no chance I would win.

[xvart]

Prod received. Will post tonight. Hawaii is beautiful.

[xvart]

I do not think Ludi has been recruited. Someone can correct me if I misremember, but Ludi was one of the first people in the game to really stick his neck out with original content or pushing a way of cult hunting, which is something a recruit would not do so early in the game. The risk is too high especially considering the IoA meta that some people push. I have no intention of voting Ludi today.

Hmm. While I'd love to get mod-confirmation on this, I doubt that will happen. Perhaps we should lynch xvart just for testing purposes.

How many recruits do you think are on each team at this point in the game?

Jester speculation is totally worthless as it has no flavor fit in this game and it serves absolutely no purpose for the intent behind this game; plus it is antithetical to the object.

My list:

Chronopie
ThAdmiral
NobodySpecial/Spring Lullaby

(to be fair, both of these pinged up during my catchup and haven't looked back at them longitudinally).

Let us make this Chronopie wagon happen. Do I need to outline his case again?

[xvart]

xvart- You think Ludi wouldn't be recruited because he put his neck out by saying that the CRs got someone they personally know is solid and have played with that player, or are 'veterans'? Which is, you know, preemptively saying don't look at the newish people (himself).

I believe all the recruitment occurred prior to the start of D1, and therefore, those that were recruited prior to D1 starting would decline to get overly involved or stick his/her neck out during D1. I'm saying Ludi's behavior early D1 is opposite of what a recruited player's behavior most likely would be; and therefore he is not recruited; not the other way around as you were suggesting.

My prod pm was void of any standardized information or procedure. It asked for more content.

I'm thinking Chrono is Kinetic's recruit.

[xvart]

I'm thinking Chrono is Kinetic's recruit.

Say ABR's recruit?

(nods) I'm really liking Xvart's chances of flipping scum here.

Nah. I suppose I should have been more clear but I assumed the intent was obvious. But Kinetic's outburst came at the point when Chronopie was starting to become an obvious priority lynch target and at the point when people were starting to make that connection and discussing it. At this stage of the game the basic game play of recruiters have only one goal: keep their recruits from getting lynched. Correcting town "time wasting efforts" or observing "town doing useless things" is not even on the radar for recruiters to subvert; so the fact that Kinetic went on and on about should say something.

Going back a dozen pages or so, does anyone have any comment about all the vig's exhausting their shot tonight (if they are similar in function to the vig's in the last game)?

I'm going to go with ns because you listed him first. Too freaking bad if you don't like that. It's not hard to follow simple instructions.

Woah, someone is getting a little bent out of shape over something so trivial. Are you concerned that you are getting more attention? I figured, based on my commentary, that you would have only counted the first two until I went back to look at the others; but I now realize that you might only be doing this in spirit and not really for the actual benefit with the way you are riding everyone over such little things that increases your self volunteer workload.

[xvart]

Don't worry your pretty little heads. I will be glad to outline the evidence that indites Chronopie as recruited upon my return to the mainland; and it is more than the V/LA. I'll be back and in full swing tomorrow night.

[xvart]

Basic assumptions about D1 recruits:

1. They don't want to be perceived as a likely recruit target;
   
2. They don't want to be lynched to a greater degree than any other day or any other recruit due to white flag rules; and,
   
3. They don't want to draw any attention and risk being lynched (see previous).

I think these assumptions are fair regardless of any WIFOM arguments to the contrary due to the high risk low reward outcome of playing otherwise.

Chronopie: Possible?

In any case, Kinetic and I will battle for who we think the other will recruit in subsequent days so as to ascertain a leg up on the other. Chronopie and Fritzler are pivotal players in this sense.

In just a few posts Chrono was identified as possible/pivotal recruit by two players (one being Albert, a recruiter). Not a lot of actual suspicion or solid "let us run with this" and, at the time, no real threat to actually be considered as a recruiter. Based on the actual level of legitimate suspicion Chrono's responses, based on the previous assumptions, seem a little too forced to undermine any chance of him being recruited before it can go anywhere. This undermining of his own play when not necessarily warranted was my first red flag.

P.Edit: Not entirely sure why I'm a pivotal player in this sense. Do you know something

I Don't

?

I'm still surprised that I'm being rated highly. In my own estimation I'm a mediocre player at best, with occasional flashes of insight, and prolonged periods of... 'meh' quality play. Selected by Both ABR and Kinetic as a potential recruit for the other, yet recruited by neither, feel free to wifom that.

It is also obvious that Chronopie seemed to be mostly concerned with Albert's identifying him as a recruit and not Ludi's "possible" recruitment, which I believe to have the thought process behind his responses as "if Albert says I'm a recruit target then maybe it will get steam", thus reinforcing my belief that he is Kinetic's recruit. Also, the WIFOM argument against his recruitment seems to be a scum tactic to add an additional level of "unlikeliness" to his recruiting.

then ofc we have the additional layer of wifom in whether they're saying that in order to distance/buddy in order to get me lynched, thus not one of their own teams, thus better for them.

It is also interesting to note that Chronopie includes Kinetic in his WIFOM argument as being identified as a recruit when Kinetic had said nothing about Chronopie, so his inclusion of himself into Kinetic's alleged WIFOM is highly suspect.

Then, once Chronopie gets a moderate amount of suspicion he disappears, probably in hopes that the wagon on me will distract from his attention or hoping the town derails itself into setup speculation or WIFOM arguments. He requires prodding and then talks about going back into lurk mode. He hasn't really contributed anything anytime in the last couple of weeks. He also declared V/LA after he had already been lurking and hiding.

Furthermore, when Kinetic started talking about how great it was that the town was wasting time with ThAdmiral's list function is precisely the point in time when Chronopie was getting a fair number of nods towards a likely recruit target. As I said before, there is no reason Kinetic would say something like this because if the town was legitimately wasting time why should he care unless his recruit was looking like a prime target for lynch.

Chronopie has gone out of his way to seem in compliance with the basic assumptions above, which seems very forced.

More coming when I catch up with the other posts.

[xvart]

Doesn't

He requires prodding and then talks about going back into lurk mode. He hasn't really contributed anything anytime in the last couple of weeks.

clash with

They don't want to draw any attention and risk being lynched (see previous).

A recruit would at least post enough so that he isn't called out for lurking ..

Well, it depends on the gamestate, and considering the ebb and flow of this game I don't think Chronopie can be excluded on the basis of what you raised. We have several people that have hardly posted anything at all and not contributed anything at all without any fear of retribution. With all the setup speculation and WIFOM arguments going on and the alternative wagons Chronopie could have decided it was better to get out of the limelight by lurking and then saw the benefit of such a behavior and attention being directed elsewhere that he thought he could ride it out.

[xvart]

xvart- I'm of the opinion that the vigs shouldn't blow their load D1 if they only have 1 shot. It would be better if they prolongued it as long as they could.

As someone says a little bit later and as I have said a couple of times the longer they wait the more likely they are to be recruited. Although, as was mentioned (also later) the one shot vig's were unrecruitable in Succession 1 which I had forgotten; but that doesn't necessarily mean the same is true this game. I would be willing to amend my previous statement to say if you are a vig and you know you don't know if you can be recruited or not you should shoot tonight (I can't remember if the vig's knew they were unrecruitable or not last game).

The more I think about it the less likely it seems that Chrono was recruited.

Why? His behavior is exactly what I would expect from a recruit that got caught.

P.Edit: Surprising. Most of the votes are probably because I'm on Limited Access, thus have been less able to contribute, thus misconstrued as being deliberately lurking.

No. You were self admitted deliberately lurking prior to going on limited access.

Just wanted to comment on this -

ALL VIGS SHOULD SHOOT TONIGHT

.. When you have the chance of shooting a recruit and taking down an entire cult team before it can ramp up in power, you take it .. Because *even if you assume vigs are unrecruitable like in S1*, if you hold off on the shot too long - all you'll be playing is kingmaker in deciding which cult team wins ..

Yes. Yes. A thousand times yes. My vig list would include (pending the lynch):

• Chronopie
  
• ThAdmiral
  
• NobodySpecial
  
• SpringLullaby
  
• Katsuki
  
• Battousai
  
• Dry-Fit
  
• Seraphim
  
• Zdnek

[xvart]

then ofc we have the additional layer of wifom in whether they're saying that in order to distance/buddy in order to get me lynched, thus not one of their own teams, thus better for them.

It is also interesting to note that Chronopie includes Kinetic in his WIFOM argument as being identified as a recruit when

Kinetic had said nothing about Chronopie

, so his inclusion of himself into Kinetic's alleged WIFOM is highly suspect.

Bolded is inaccurate...

You're right; I missed that one, which would have been the prompt for him downplaying his play the second time and the subsequent WIFOM commentary.

[xvart]

xvart finally makes cases, and against whom? Chronopie. It's not like xvart looked at everyone and tried to see who was scummiest. He checked who was the easiest counter-wagon to push, and shoveled coal into the engine.

The fact that you categorize my push on Chronopie as an easy counter wagon is laughable. I've been saying Chronopie is recruited since almost the beginning of the game and the fact that more people are finally coming around to the idea is great news. In fact, I had my voted back on Chronopie before ThAdmiral started doing his list that got more people discussing it as an option. As for making cases I would suggest you try it instead of just pushing how solid of a recruit I would make and only that. As I've said, that's a fine starting point but it can't be the

only

thing you push when you ignore everything else going on.

[xvart]

(also, how does xvart only get 6 votes on that survey and have 8 votes on him)

This is an excellent question. Seraphim hasn't posted a list, but Nobody Special... Why are you voting me when I wasn't on your list?

When it comes to Xvart, at least there is some kind of case against him now, that he's pushing the easy to push Chronopie wagon, but he put Chronopie at the top of his list when Chrono was just leading by one.

I'll redirect this to my response to DGB here as the ridiculousness of this comment has already been addressed. But to sum it up: Who has been advocating for Chronopie being recruited the most? Me. Who has been voting Chronopie the most and the longest? Me.

[xvart]

So, I had some time today. Here is my list. I couldn't decide on the third, but here are two:

Flameaxe
Herodotus

This is very interesting since you were previously "most inclined to support my lynch" yet I fail to make your list, especially when you consider your recent soft support of me being scum.

I'm still not very willing to move off Yos2, but at this point in the day if enough people aren't convinced then it probably isn't going to happen. I'm making one last call here.

Chronopie could.

I don't see the Yos2 lynch going anywhere based on game/wagon/discussion momentum so the best bet is to move your vote to Chronopie to get that to the viable wagon stage.

[xvart]

Second dumbest thing is to lynch obv-lynchbait as potential recruit.

Second dumbest thing behind lynching someone based on potential good recruitment over someone who is exhibiting obvious recruitment behavior.

Translation: Not my Recruit.

--

All you have right now, is my word, that I am not recruited.

This Wagon looks to be nothing more than a Policy Lynch by way of Lynch all Lurkers (explained absence), and is sub-optimal play.

And still no game related comments other than a terrible defense that has already been proven untrue (you were lurking before your explained absence and it also coincided with you getting pressure as a recruit).

Sorry I had unexpected company drop by my house tonight- spending the night and all.
Reading delayed until tomorrow.

<3
Andy

Hi Andy - Knowing the level of your epic readings I trust you will see that Chronopie is the obvious recruit choice at this point in the game. <3 xvart.

Vote: Tajo

Other suspects don't have support...

Tajo has even less support... And, what is the significance of 1.3 posts per day? Why did you choose that number?

[xvart]

I will wear this lynch as a badge of honor.

[xvart]

He's the lynch that sucks the least. Chrono is absolutely not a recruit at this point, and there's no other options.

You'll see how it sucks the most in about 5 votes.

And, anyone arguing about how much information we will get from any lynch is sorely mistaken since there are likely two (out of 23) voting scum right now. What sort of bandwagon analysis are you expecting to do with this? The only value of a lynch over no lynch is so D2 isn't D1 redux due to no flips; unless we hit a recruited member, and even then you won't be able to do votecount analysis to find the other recruit; but at least we would have achieved our primary goal.

[xvart]

As for why I prefer xvart: when DGB voted him early in the game, he misrepped her case in ISO #4, saying that it was based on a timestamp when he knew it wasn't.

1

Then, he voted Cobblerfone in ISO #8, and was still suspicious in ISO #21

2

. But Cobbler was nowhere to be found in his list of top 3 suspects. In fact, he wasn't even on xvart's vig list in ISO #29

3

.

1

You are bringing this up again? I clearly explained this when you brought it up 38 pages ago? Even if it wasn't obvious at the time (which it should have been) my follow up explanation is perfectly reasonable: DGB narrowed a pool to people likely to be recruited and selected me

because of a timestamp

. If you didn't buy my explanation or see the fundamental reasoning behind my comment when I responded way back when why did you hold onto until a day before the deadline.

2

Taken out of context. I now believe Cobbler is who he claims to be. The progression of his questioning me, withholding his vote, and then when I voted for him it made him believe that our job titles were not the same, thus him being unrecruitable.

3

See above.

For someone who hasn't said much at all the entire game you sure waited until the last minute to bust out the big accusations.

[xvart]

Unvote, Vote: Yos

BY THE BY, I DOUBT ANY OF THE PLAYERS WHO REPLACED OUT TODAY GOT RECRUITED, SO THEY'RE NOT UP FOR ROPE TODAY, AND PROBABLY ARE POOR CHOICES FOR VIG'ING TONIGHT ANYWAYS.

You know, using all caps for one sentence doesn't actually make you look like you are sooo passionate or so invested in what you are saying considering you haven't done anything all game.

I think the most frustrating part of all of this is all the clowns in this game sitting around hoping to get recruited and not playing to their current win condition.

players to vig N1

People playing as expected of recruited scum:

• Chronopie
  
• ThAdmiral
  
• NobodySpecial
  
• SpringLullaby
  
• Katsuki
  
• Battousai
  
• Dry-Fit
  
• Seraphim
  
• Zdnek
  
• bvoigt

Andy - I expect you to know what to do tomorrow.

Since there has been no logical or reasonable argument for waiting to vig if anyone claims vig and hasn't shot then that person is a) recruited; b) waiting to be recruited and should be lynched without mercy. Also, from a recruiter standpoint you would want to recruit someone who isn't likely to get lynched or be seen as someone who would likely be recruited. Then, once you are out of the risk river of losing D1, you would go for the smart, capable people who can help craft the game state in your teams favor N1.

[xvart]

Anything else you wanna say?

This is absolutely hilarious coming from you, when you compare our content levels and commitment to this game.

I'm starting to see why people have been calling for your neck.

I must have really hit a cord with you. And do you deny that there are people in this game that are simply waiting to be recruited? If you agree with that statement what is the problem with what I said? Just read Andy's post about the townies in Succession 1.

Come to think of it, a vig list is extremely anti-town.

It's actually not in this game if you stop and think about it.

<2days UNTIL LYNCH, LETS GET THIS GOING.

Again, I'm glad to see you finally get a spark and get excited and act like you believe in what you have not been saying all game. But I don't think it is sincere since the timing is immediately after I called you out and right before the deadline when you are safe from being lynched but still in danger of being vigged.

Real-day or game-day?

Game day, meaning the start of D2.

[xvart]

xvart - 8 (Yosarian2,

ThAdmiral

,

DrippingGoofball

,

Chronopie

,

Fritzler

,

Nobody Special

,

bvoigt

, Lady Lambdadelta,

Katsuki

)

Personally, I would be hesitant to join a wagon where 77% of the wagon included the most engaged portion of the playerlist. It really doesn't say a lot about the collective scumhunting of the group when you have these people as representatives. I was hesitant to include DGB due to overall posting amount, but her

actual

scumhunting and engagement level has been minimal to none. Regardless of the subjectivity of the DBG inclusion, the point still stands.

[xvart]

Andy - considering the deadline your vote was much more significant where it was as opposed to where it is now.

[xvart]

I was actually thinking of investigating that ? on the map. But if you're serious about all of us teamsters meeting at #33 I wouldn't mind that.
@xvart: Assuming you aren't lynched, are you interested?

Maybe, if you think there will be a benefit to it; I don't really see the benefit if we all were to get a neighbor QT since Andy could eventually get recruited and share any confidential information. If there is something else I'm missing let me know.

Why is no one dead yet?

Are you surprised to see that your lead wagon is having a tough time reaching the lynch threshold when most of the people on the wagon are about as active as you are? :shocked: See you in a couple days for your next one liner.

[xvart]

Why is no one dead yet?

Some players are trying to convince themselves that Chronopie would make a better recruit than xvart.

While some of us are trying to figure out who is

actually

a recruit.

Sorry, I don't get what you mean with the second-to-last sentence. Could you clarify?

Yes, my response was a little convoluted. Basically, as has been discussed, Cobbler withholding his vote on me and the manner in which his posts came forward show that he was under the impression that I might have been unrecruitable, too. When I voted him, from his perspective, I didn't think the same of him and his role. So then he voted for me.

Also, what made you decide I'm scummy? I wasn't on your first vig list, but now I am.

When I was responding to your last post and went back through your ISO I realized how you haven't really taken any stands, been very involved, and been very active; so therefore you fell into the category of people playing like a recruit likely is playing.

For someone who "will wear this lynch as a badge of honor," you seem pretty concerned about attacking the members of your wagon.

Yes; if and when I get lynched I will; but that doesn't mean I assume my lynch is a forgone conclusion and therefore have not resigned my fate. Look at my wagon. How would classify your counterparts on my wagon?

Also, if isn't voting either xvart or Chronopie, you need to switch to one of them.

What a helpful post since this has been said ad naseum in the last few pages.

Unvote
Vote: xvart

And my wagon just stronger and stronger by association to the contributions of the people on it. Updated:

xvart - 9 (Yosarian2,

ThAdmiral

,

DrippingGoofball

,

Chronopie

,

Fritzler

,

Nobody Special

,

bvoigt

, Lady Lambdadelta,

Katsuki

,

Seraphim

)

Personally, I would be hesitant to join a wagon where 77% of the wagon included the most engaged portion of the playerlist. It really doesn't say a lot about the collective scumhunting of the group when you have these people as representatives. I was hesitant to include DGB due to overall posting amount, but her

actual

scumhunting and engagement level has been minimal to none. Regardless of the subjectivity of the DBG inclusion, the point still stands.

Andy - let me predict your future: you have a long and frustrating game ahead of you.

[xvart]

UNVOTE: xvart

I can't wait to hear this explained.

[xvart]

But he voted for you just before ISO #9. You continued to make a case on him in ISO #11, and kept your vote on him for a while after that.

Yes, because at the time I didn't make/catch the connection and didn't until it came up in discussion later on.

The Chronopie wagon contains just as many questionables or lurkers: xvart, Cobblerfone, Seraphim (until he switched), Magister Ludi, and Zdenek. And I have more town reads on your wagon: Yosarian2, ThAdmiral, DrippingGoofball (although she switched now), Nobody Special, and Lady Lambdadelta.

What has Nobody Special done to make him town?

If I do get lynched my vig list and reasoning will still be out there and when I flip town our vig's can go back knowing that I proposed what I did from a town perspective and hopefully do the right thing. In addition, hopefully they will think more deeply about the issue and see the other inherent benefits to shooting off my vig list that I haven't explicitly stated.

Mr. Flay - can you answer this question: does overkill get indicated on kill flavor? i.e. "xvart was shot twice during N1"?

[xvart]

Just found these two responses in an open tab. I apparently forgot to copy them over in my last response. I see Flameaxe already posted something similar to the first one but anyways:

EBWOP: Everyone ignored my post calling for a lynch over a week ago.

Great. So you have been championing getting a lynch but not

a particular

lynch. That doesn't really improve your situation or standing in my eyes.

Apparently no one bothered to read that there are bankable days in play.

Great contribution. Let's just quick lynch everyday so we have longer and longer deadlines that we won't need since we just stacking up massive deadlines. Yes, I know that is sensationalized but my frustration level is above to boil over. The fact remains that you just want to get a lynch for the sake of lynching despite this being the likely best day we have to win this game; but you want longer deadlines on later days when the Cults are already out of control because there is more information then? By then it's going to be too late.

---

DGB:

With 25 voters, it will take 13 to lynch. Nightfall will occur no later than the end of June 14th, server time;

Plus about twenty references to the end of day being around the corner in the last four pages.

Seraphim- Reason for the xvart vote? Do you find him scummy? why?

Good luck with this. He's only read up to page 10.

You have said nothing about what makes you think he's scum other than his being a desirable recruitment candidate. I just checked again. Nothing, other than one point when you quoted a paragraph from Battousai and said you agreed, comes close to discussing xvart's play in this game.

This is the predominate trend. You could ISO anyone and pretty much get the same result.

[xvart]

Come to think of it, a vig list is extremely anti-town.

Not on day one of this game from someone who is likely to be lynched. I think it's null.

It is. It is quite scummy. Think about it.

No. It is not. You keep saying directing who the Cults to recruit is a bad thing. It's not. Think about it for two seconds. What is the one thing that scares cult the most? Losing membership. First of all, it is highly likely that at least one N0 recruit is in that pool simply based on game play and likely behavior of D1 recruits. All of our vigs fire and we hit one that's great. We start tomorrow a great deal better than we are right now plus we don't have any vigs waiting to be recruited and used against us (if they can be recruited). PLUS, we have a great idea of the recruit pool to start looking at tomorrow for N1 recruits since a recruiter isn't going to risk getting a recruit shot the same night he/she is recruited.

Since you and a half dozen other people have spent all day sitting around going "xvart is omg so the most obvious recruit and by the way I don't care about trying to identify the other recruit even if he is actually a recruit" we have nothing to go on.

Plus, the added benefit of trimming the fat of a lot of players who haven't taken a stand on anything or made any sort of thoughts on other players which make ideal recruits later on because we can't catch them in a lie or flip flopping based on being recruited BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T SAID ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING.

Again, I repeat, is there any chance at all, knowing that all the vigs were going to fire tonight from a select pool of players, they would risk recruiting from that pool of players? WIFOM be damned in this scenario because it is just stupid play on their part. Losing one recruit could mean the end of the game for them. I know because I was on the recruiting team last game where we were down players immediately from the beginning of the game. They'll never catch up. Directed vig shots on the very first available night puts us in a much better position tomorrow because it is exactly like today only the available recruit pool is actually substantial instead of just crap WIFOM and stubborn nonsense.

Tomorrow is going to be just like today if we do not direct vig shots except we'll be lynching based on 4/22. If we do direct vig shots we'll be looking for recruits in a pool of 2/13 and 2/10 at worst and 4/13 at best. Those are odds we need right now at the beginning of the game.

[xvart]

Ok it is post like xvart's last post that really make me feel like he is not part of a cult at this point. As was pointed out before, most of the main case against Xvart was the fact he was most likely a recruit choice and it pretty much has stuck all game.

Unvote

@Yos2: Ok you believe Cobbler is scum, yet you are on xvart? Still feel that is the right place to put your vote?

You weren't voting me before...

[xvart]

I don't get what you are trying to say here...

For the most part, a majority of the people on my wagon are the laziest, most unengaged, and least helpful people in the game. They have done absolutely nothing other than "oooohh... pretty lynch... no reasons needed..." They have given no opinions, no stances, and weighed in on anything substantive. These people are either recruits, wannabe recruits, or anti-town.

@ xvart: why did you wait so long to start defending yourself. You are actually sounding reasonable. But now if I want to unvote (which I do) I only have a couple of viable options to choose from, and they aren't ideal either. I believe others when they say chrono is a bad recruit pick because he is erratic, and I feel that yos is getting wagonned simply because he is known as a good player.

It is hard to defend yourself against "he would make the most ideal recruit".

The main thing that andrius pointed out that resonated with me was how he pointed out chrono was constantly putting himself down to make it seem like he'd be a bad recruitment choice. That's as good a point as any in my eyes.

Hey there. Welcome to the game. I've been saying this all game. ALL game.

[xvart]

I feel you could have tried harder earlier.

Seriously? There is no defense against "xvart would make an ideal recruit because he has never been lynched D1 and is hard to lynch." What did I do instead of provide a defense for something that can't be defended? I actually built cases on people and advocated for recruit lynches.

Andrius said it better. (I actually don't really remember you doing this)

Let me jog you memory:

This makes me think Chrono was actually recruited.

Why would he demean his overall play twice in 1.5 hours

and go into the WIFOM analysis that would better be served by a recruiter? And, the whole "care to tell us how many you recruited" just seems like a throw away, forced conversation with no obvious point.

VOTE: Chronopie

With that in mind, I encourage everyone to read Chronopie because he looks as close to a recruit as we are going to get at this point in the game:

• Middle of the road player D1 attention wise;
  
• Diminishes his level of play when given a slight amount of attention for being a possible recruit target;
  
  
• Employs WIFOM arguments that would best be used by the mob bosses to muddle the waters; and,
  
• Repeatedly has back chat with the Cult Recruiters and worthless questions that he knows will never get a legitimate answer.

Diminishes his level of play when given a slight amount of attention for being a possible recruit target

What makes you say this?

This post. And this one.

First of all, thank you. I thought there was someone else that identified Chronopie as a good recruit but missed it when rereading.

• Ludi suggested Chrono as a recruit in 83;
  
• ABR suggested Chrono as a recruit in 95;
  
• Chrono is self deprecating in post 97;
  
  
• Chrono is again self deprecating in 116.

Once identified as a decent player and good recruit on N0 he starts saying how he wouldn't be a good recruit.

That is the chronology I'm talking about.

Xvart, I took your use of the word diminishing to mean that you thought he actually started playing worse as a result of it being suggested that he was recruited, as opposed to just being self-deprecating. I think the two things are quite different.

Okay. I should have said

"diminished self perception of his quality of play"

or something like that.

In just a few posts Chrono was identified as possible/pivotal recruit by two players (one being Albert, a recruiter). Not a lot of actual suspicion or solid "let us run with this" and, at the time, no real threat to actually be considered as a recruiter. Based on the actual level of legitimate suspicion Chrono's responses, based on the previous assumptions, seem a little too forced to undermine any chance of him being recruited before it can go anywhere. This undermining of his own play when not necessarily warranted was my first red flag.

I can see why you didn't think I was doing enough since you haven't been paying attention to what I've been saying.

[xvart]

Mr. Flay - can you answer this question: does overkill get indicated on kill flavor? i.e. "xvart was shot twice during N1"?

No.

Flay

- No, as is "no, you won't answer the question; or "no, overkill is not indicated in flavor"?

Unofficial Vote Count of Day One:

xvart - 6 (Yosarian2,

ThAdmiral

, Chronopie, Fritzler, bvoigt, Lady Lambdadelta, Katsuki,

Seraphim

)
Chronopie - 7 (xvart, Cobblerfone,

Magister Ludi

,

Zdenek

, ooba, ThAdmiral, Bunnylover, Flameaxe, Seraphim)
Yosarian2 - 7 (Herodotus, Nobody Special, DrippingGoofball,

Battousai

, Porochaz, Magister Ludi, populartajo, Zdenek)
ThAdmiral - 1 (inHimshallibe,

Tanarin

)
Tanarin - 1 (

populartajo

, springlullaby)
Magister Ludi - 2 (

Bunnylover

, Andrius, Battousai)
Cobblerfone - 0 (

Flameaxe

)

Not Voting: Tanarin,

Bunnylover

[xvart]

lol, didn't see prozac's post.

[xvart]

We've gone beyond the "who would recruiters recruit" and are looking at behavior. N0 Recruits want to avoid notice and what did Chronopie do as soon as he started getting a couple votes and attention? He started lurking, which he blatantly admitted. Note that despite what he has been saying in his recent posts this lurking started well before he went V/LA. It is also worth noting that he was far from saying anything of significance before he started talking about how he wouldn't make a good recruit.

[xvart]

I'm thoroughly disappointed in the number of people alive today. I'll be back later once my conference finishes check in.

[xvart]

Katsuki, who do you think was recruited last night?

If they wern't already, I can see Ooba and yourself being said recruits.

Vote: YOS

Wait... wait... what? You imply that Yos2 and ooba may have already been recruited, and if they weren't, they were recruited last night? Yet you are voting for Yos2? Why do you think ooba may have been recruited already?

ARE YOU LIKE SERIOUSLY SUGGESTING CONFIRMED POWER ROLE = CONFIRMED TOWN?

Obviously, it also doesn't mean confirmed cult, either.

That stupid ordered list totally ruined my plan. Notice how I didn't mention it again after that.

Could your scheme work by modifying it (removing people at the top of the list or above a certain number of votes)?

Well, maybe we should ask people to confirm whether or not they were at 33 (the night club/lounge) last night. (note, not were they were, just whether or not visit 33)

Since I was one of the people originally being discussed to do this I did not visit 33 last night.

[xvart]

Katsuki, who do you think was recruited last night?

If they wern't already, I can see Ooba and yourself being said recruits.

Vote: YOS

Wait... wait... what? You imply that

Yos2

Herodotus

and ooba may have already been recruited, and if they weren't, they were recruited last night? Yet you are voting for Yos2? Why do you think ooba may have been recruited already?

X

Where did Yos come from, and where did Herodotus go?

xvart, you're not even trying here. Read my post, then get back to me.

I've corrected my error which should have been obvious by the context of the rest of the post. And for the record, next time I want a lesson on trying in this game I will certainly not ask you for guidance. Now if you could get back to me on the corrected post above.

[xvart]

DGB has (or had) an ability that allowed her to check the alignment of everyone at a location. It wouldn't tell her WHO was what, but it would tell her how many of X were there. It can ONLY be used on even nights though, hence, why she couldn't begin to reveal the plan until today.

I'm quoting Kinetic but I'm talking to everyone else. The only way I can see the plan DGB laid out as fitting in with her role is to take the top of the numbered list and ask them to move to a certain location tonight. I don't see the problem here of not having the scumputer or whatever since we can still ask people to go to a location. I would say the vig list I put forward yesterday or Herodutus' list.

FTR, MY REASON HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH KINETIC

SECRET SCUMTELL FROM DGB

Secret scumtells mean nothing to me.

NO - because I never discussed krap about meetings anywhere. More appalling I completely forgot that this game had a map and location until I got a PM from Flay telling me it was now too late. He asked me what action I would have taken and I gave the name of a player. I didn't even remember I had a role - it is on the lame side. He said you have to pick a

place

not a player. Go WIFOM this now. Have fun.

This is what concerns me is that this story doesn't add up. When did Flay send you a pm and why?

That un-recruitable thing is a fakeclaim, come on.

Then why didn't you say this yesterday?

UNVOTE:

[xvart]

DGB has (or had) an ability that allowed her to check the alignment of everyone at a location. It wouldn't tell her WHO was what, but it would tell her how many of X were there. It can ONLY be used on even nights though, hence, why she couldn't begin to reveal the plan until today.

I'm quoting Kinetic but I'm talking to everyone else. The only way I can see the plan DGB laid out as fitting in with her role is to take the top of the numbered list and ask them to move to a certain location tonight. I don't see the problem here of not having the scumputer or whatever since we can still ask people to go to a location. I would say the vig list I put forward yesterday or Herodutus' list.

FTR, MY REASON HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH KINETIC

SECRET SCUMTELL FROM DGB

Secret scumtells mean nothing to me.

NO - because I never discussed krap about meetings anywhere. More appalling I completely forgot that this game had a map and location until I got a PM from Flay telling me it was now too late. He asked me what action I would have taken and I gave the name of a player. I didn't even remember I had a role - it is on the lame side. He said you have to pick a

place

not a player. Go WIFOM this now. Have fun.

This is what concerns me is that this story doesn't add up. When did Flay send you a pm and why?

That un-recruitable thing is a fakeclaim, come on.

Then why didn't you say this yesterday?

[xvart]

Hell, Kinetic could have tried to recruit DGB last night and failed for one reason or another (ABR recruit already?).

[xvart]

Guys, how plausible do you think it is that the whole DGB/Kinetic thing is a gambit on their part as cult together?

Not at all. No benefit at this game stage, too much risk.

[xvart]

It means I asked Mr. Flay if I was unrecruitable. He said he couldn't answer. (paraphrased of coursed) Therefore, I assumed I was unrecruitable and still do.

Wait. wtf?

VOTE: Cobblerfone

[xvart]

You told everyone you were recruitable, which you do not know based on the information Flay gave you. There is obvious reasons why Flay would not answer that question either way under either assumption. You are N0 recruit. You deceived the town and provided information which you do not know.

[xvart]

He sent it to me after game start, and why he did, you'll have to ask him.

I don't see him doing this, but I don't have much experience with Flay as a moderator. What name did you send him and why did you send that name if you forgot you had a role?

Yes that is the other side of the coin, I just think it's less likely than fakeclaiming un-recruitable. I claimed that myself, for the WIFOM. I expected more people to fakeclaim unrecruitable for lulz.

How many people in this game are claiming? Let alone fake claiming?

No it didn't. Not outright, I simply guessed because of the wording. For the timeframe, let's see, I think I asked Mr. Flay at around the same time that RaudhrGarm soft-claimed to be vanilla.

This is total bologna. How does the wording suggest that you might be unrecruitable without explicitly saying it?

That's not how it went. I didn't claim unrecruitable until after I was certain that none of us Teamsters had the same role.

No. You claimed when you thought I was not unrecruitable.

What Cobbler seems to be trying to do is actually a pretty reasonable scum technique; he's trying to gradually pull away from his fakeclaim now, to make the whole thing seem like some kind of misunderstanding, and to do so before he can be caught out on it. He's just not doing it very well. In any case, I think the only goal of his fakeclaim was to not be lynched on day 1, and it did accomplish that.

I agree with this.

I'm only interested in lynching Cobble or DGB today. I believe both are lying cultbags.

[xvart]

That's not how it went. I didn't claim unrecruitable until after I was certain that none of us Teamsters had the same role.

No. You claimed when you thought I was not unrecruitable.

Those both mean the same thing.

No. What you said was that you claimed after you were certain that Raudr and I (all teamsters) were not unrecruitable. When did you determine that Raudr was unrecruitable?

I'm only interested in lynching Cobble or DGB today. I believe both are lying cultbags.

If DGB is cult how is she lying if she literally said she's cult?

Nice misrep. Do I even need to respond to this?

[xvart]

I forgot about that. I went back and looked and that happened before our exchange; so you should have known by that point that we weren't all the same roles, therefore basing us not having the same role because of my vote on you was not true.

[xvart]

I'm only interested in lynching Cobble or DGB today. I believe both are lying cultbags.

If DGB is cult how is she lying if she literally said she's cult?

Nice misrep. Do I even need to respond to this?

Yes.

Okay then. When I say someone is lying that doesn't mean that every single thing uttered is a lie; cult have their own means and their own reasons for saying things and most of the time they will try and tell the truth but occasionally they will have to lie, just as I don't buy the whole thing about Flay, unprompted, pming DGB after the day started telling her that "it's too late to submit an action." Furthermore, it's ridiculous to even use that as an example. "I am cult so everything I say is a lie." Really?

[xvart]

So Ooba has a good chance of also being a rolecop.

How many times have we been over this?

[xvart]

Regarding Seraphim - two people have claimed to have been roleblocked due to a pm from Flay, so you either know you were roleblocked or you weren't.

HOLY HELL
THOSE DGB/CR INTERACTIONS ARE TERRIBAD.
WE HAVE CULT HERE FOLKS.

VOTE: DGB

You never responded to my post.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Prozac

[xvart]

I have a cop result stating that porochaz is a recruit. I hadn't yet said whom my result was on, but that doesn't mean I wasn't planning to.

I think we should bank some time by lynching soon, now that my result is out.

[xvart]

I am not voting till I hear anything from Hero.

This. Although if Hero got an innocent I think it would be best if he kept it to himself.

[xvart]

If he got recruited and got a result on the other mob I'll take that in the meantime.

[xvart]

@ xvart

You didn't bludgeon or shoot anyone last night, did you?

Nope. Do you have reason to think otherwise?

[xvart]

Wow, ninjed by Fritz.

Anyway, went back and looked at Poro's interactions with others in the town on D2, and the only big interactions I have seen is between him and DGB. I dunno if this is bussing, or if he really thought that she could have been a recruit for Rampage. I'm gonna go back and look at D1 and see if it is possible he was a pre-game recruit or not though.

How do you know Poro was Kinetic's recruit?

[xvart]

Yeah, I went and checked; I don't see anywhere that indicated who Prozac was recruited by. So Tanarin is a Kinetic recruit and Prozac was too? Too many recruits, too little rope. Are we going to try and alternate recruits or are we going to try and knock one out completely?

[xvart]

In this case we do know.

[xvart]

Post coming.

[xvart]

Sorry, meant tonight; not immediately. It was just a prod dodge. Working on this game now.

[xvart]

Still. How does that help us, exactly? There's always the off-chance that if they are both in fact Kinetic recruits that that is all Kinetic has and we win and only have to deal with ABR.

That could be huge.

You're right. I was still thinking of three recruits possible but didn't think about failed recruiting; but it seems like it doesn't matter anymore anyway.

I don't know. I've seen people use it as a scum tell.

Something about this post really rubs me wrong. Voting someone based on what others have used as a scumtell is suspect, especially since this vote is out of the blue yonder. No thought on if this is a legitimate tell in her opinion and nothing about whether or not the tell others used actually ended with the person being scum.

What about my post was not clear? I was saying that I believed that Hero and Ooba would be early recruits (both likely recruited at the time Hero asked me that question).

The part that wasn't clear is why you identified two people that were likely recruits at that point in the game but voted for someone else. But nevermind, scratch it because I just went back to your ISO and saw your voting Yos D1.

However, I want you to explain why you think Cobbler is a bad place for a vote today?

Yo guys, springlullaby is a Kinetic scumbag. I have confirmation of this by guilty investigation.

I want Kinetic dead more than anything, help me with this.

I am actually open to accepting information because at this at this stage in the game and since Kinetic is obviously down in numbers and it is possible that Albert has a cop in his pocket or something that might give this information. But I would need some sort of substantiation before blindly following this.

DGB - I know you wanted a Katsuki vote and I anticipate it coming. I want him to respond to my bolded question first.

[xvart]

Oh, also, can someone get a bullet list or something about the Yos2, ML, Sera thing. I'm having trouble following it spread over several pages, etc. I get it once the tracker claim came out but I am not following the progression and soft claiming and them accusing each other.

[xvart]

I find it highly unlikely that cobbler was recruited N0, given his play (from what I have seen from other games) and all. Plus other players availiable for recruiting.
Considering all the pressure he received D1, I doubt he was recruited thereafter.

As such, your vote would be much better served on DGB, who's constant rhetoric is

"blah blah Kinetic blah so I can't possibly be skum!"

, and

"town are all idiots, you all suck"

. Her play this game is near identical to the later stages of OOT mafia, where she was scum.

Oops. When reading your ISO when I asked the question I misread Cobbler and Chrono so I thought there was a blatant contradiction with what you were saying.

Well, considering that it's almost 90% certain that someone tried to cult recruit Andrius N1 and FAILED, it's not likely.

Huh?

Oh I'm not listening to him.
I don't believe him.
Most of my post are "Lets say I believe you" situation.
Too bad I don't.

What's the point of "let's say I believe you" questions when you don't believe him at all?

Awaiting votecount, then I'll be voting Katsuki. Bunnylover makes a good lynch, too.

[xvart]

Well, it turned out to be nothing because when Katsuki was recently talking about Cobbler being a terrible recruit or whatever, I was reading her ISO and saw everything he was talking about on D1 and voting Cobbler. Then when he explicitly confirmed that Cobbler was a terrible recruit choice I went back to pull the quotes from D1 and realized I confused Chrono and Cobbler.

[xvart]

VOTE: katsuki

[xvart]

Man, sorry the need to be prodded. I've been slacking in most of my games because I've been absorbed in inFamous... I'm still hoping someone by the grace of god will post a summary events surrounding the whole Seraphim, Yos2, and ML deal, especially since it seems to be lingering on.

Actually, if DGB is still town she is likely to stay that way for (at least) a while since she is a ticking time bomb.

Can we skip the countdown and just lynch Katsuki? Seriously, the whole V/LA post is so scummy due to the lack of posting leading up to it, and lack of V/LA announcement in his other games, and no claim. So obviously Katsuki knew he was in a spot in this game and felt the need to declare in this game only for that reason.

[xvart]

Because he clearly identified this game as one he needed to post V/LA in, thus knowing his situation/predicament, and not claiming anyways.

[xvart]

I mean look at Kinetic first post this day. HE IS EXCITED THAT ABR IS GONE. WHY? BECAUSE HE CAN KILL AND RECRUIT WHOEVER THE FUCK HE WANTS TO KNOW.
While ABR was alive, Kinetic had to choose carefully who he wanted to recruit and hope that ABR doesn't kill of one of his recruit or attempt to recruit the same person and therefore it would be who sent in their action first.

Why do you care that recruiter was excited about something? It is still

heavily

in favor of the town to not have an

additional

cult since now recruiting because now we have twice as long before the town is overwhelmed by recruits.

I really think ooba is stretching the lines of flavor and reality a little too strongly. It doesn't even matter about PRness or not; he could have just visited another location without performing an action at all.

Whoever suggested that SL was a failed recruit and then killed because of the failed recruit by Kinetic is out of his mind. Unless Kinetic has a vig in his control that would be two wasted recruitment opportunities.

I also heavily dislike Seraphim's play today. Asking DGB about her movement and then absolutely no follow up? Considering the mess that it caused yesterday is suspicious.

I need to do a little follow up but I could swing for a ooba or Seraphim lynch at this moment. I'm still processing the Scumputer results but based on my preliminary understanding of DGBs thought process I could probably swing for a Darox lynch.

[xvart]

There is no helpful information to be gained from me saying whether or not I was there. If there is helpful information, don't you think I would claim it? So you are stuck with me being scum or there not being any useful information. All you've tried to do is out me as a PR. ftfy. I'm not claiming, so you can drop it.

Its a simple yes or no question, just answer it o.o.

Why are you so invested in this conversation to post this throw away comment? You haven't said anything else about it other than saying "ooba a little early on the claiming".

I think the plan might work, but he's got is ass-backwards.

How might it work if it wasn't ass backwards? We don't even know if people know that they are unrecruitable or not, and Cobblerfone seems to think he is unrecruitable based on mod ambiguity (even though that is a ridiculous assumption), and I believe that people did not know if they were unrecruitable in Succession I (loose canons?). I think the plan is terrible in any permutation. It relies on too many outside variables of which we do not have a solid grasp.

I think Cobblerfone's LLD case is terribly weak.

ooba's case on DGB is also terrible. She is obviously not a ABR recruit, and the odds of a recruiter pushing hard on a recruit is highly unlikely. The odds of her being recruited last night are close to nil simply due to what I said yesterday about her being a ticking time bomb. Same goes for Cobblerfone's vote.

bvoit's response to the soft guilty on him is interesting. I would think that someone as town would offer some level of "your results are wrong" or "something fishy is going on if you have a guilty on me" instead of immediately asking for a definitive "yes or no". It's not like a town mindset where you don't want to have a town person expose powers since Hero is already claimed and exposed.

VOTE: bvoit

[xvart]

Forgot to copy this from another tab earlier:

How would you know your ability failed, anyway?

In Succession I anyone who was roleblocked received a flavorful pm about being too busy engaging in illicit acts of debauchery with sluts to do their action. A couple people have claimed as such in this game.

Wow people really need to read what I am saying. I don't want him to claim where he was - I want Batt to claim whether he was at the bank yesterday or not.

Mechanically speaking, when someone visits another location (not performing an action, just going to the grocery store) do they stay there and start the day there or do they go there and come back in the same night? The other thing about your watcher results is it is unclear, based on the flavor you provided, whether or not someone at that location would be counted in the watcher totals. If he was in the bank all night would he have been seen as a visitor? This is one of the reasons I find this line of questioning ridiculous because it makes a lot of assumptions that would need to be clarified about the mechanics of the game in order for it to be significant at all.

[xvart]

xvart, comment on tajo would be appreciated.

Thanks

Frankly, I'm not excited about anyone claiming you are cult right now; but I can appreciate the pissing match that comes from people going 1v1 so based on that alone I am not willing to call him cult. I don't really see him being cult because we've seen how well it works out for cult members to try and publicly take you down.

I could actually believe a combined DGB-Kinetic gambit...it totally sounds like the sort of thing they would cook up actually. I don't think she's a good lynch today.

Seems like a pretty unlikely scenario, and a high risk low reward sort of way. I'm all for conspiracy theories but this one is just silly.

[xvart]

I asked DGB to claim because I keep forgetting that she wouldn't know persay where her location was or rather the location of the person she targeted.

I suppose I'm just kinda miffed that my ability basically does shit all.

Three days in a row? You've asked for claims three days in a row and taken heat every single day because of the way you asked, the information you had (or didn't have). I really can't fathom the forgetting part, since based on previous day responses I would think you would conceptualize what you are actually asking to avoid the same thing that occurred previously.

Ugh. DGB isn't as obviously cult as Darox and it doesn't seem that she's getting lynched.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Darox

This is quite the turnaround on DGB, don't you think?

You're not any closer to a lynch since I voted you, Darox is still scummy, and Marathon has made me less patient.

I find this train of thought ridiculous since you voted DGB less than 24 hours previously. However, since my last post I started thinking about Cobblerfone's claim about the ambiguity of being unrecruitable or not, and IF there is an actual mafia scum team in this game maybe the disconnect there is because he was asking if mafia could be recruited to a cult and Flay alluded to mafia being unable to be recruited, but also not being definitive.

Im actually like the points that Ooba is pointing out about DGB.
And I wouldn't put it over DGB or Kinetic to start a plan where Kinetic attacks DGB just to have something you can say that your town of.

Talk to me about the risk/reward aspect of this. Is it worth it early game for a recruiter to make a solid push on his recruit?

[xvart]

Posting tonight.

[xvart]

Sorry again, I need to also declare a

semi-V/LA for the next day or two

; just replaced into a long game with a short deadline and got deathly sick yesterday. I'm going to try and get my post I promised yesterday up tonight.

[xvart]

I was trying to think who would be a good recruit for N3. Batt would have been my choice so watched the bank.

Was it stated in the game prior that he was at the bank, or did you just assume based on the role name?

What brought about that question?

And why didn't this question get asked yesterday?

@Hero: I'd also like you to claim all of your results so far since it'll at least clear people up to a certain day. And if a person said something suspicious before you investigated them we know it would be fruitless. This is a long game now and any help in that regard would be good. It could also help in trying to find any changes in behavior from after that point. It doesn't need to be right now, but some time during the day phase would be awesome.

If not right now what point is there to be waiting based on your reasoning? Why wait if you really want that information for the reason you stated?

His posting style is basically shrugging off the fact that DGB flip town. Lets all forget how hard I (tajo) pushed DGB lynch. Lets all forget how I (tajo) tunneled and tunneled DGB. Only to have DGB flip town by an unknown force killing her.
Their isn't any remorse, thinking, or consquences present in his post about DGB flipping town.

Wait, so you think the change in posting style is due to DGB flipping town or because tajo got recruited? But you say he got recruited before, too; so what exactly are you pushing? That tajo shows no remorse for thinking someone is scum who is actually town?

@Tajo: Nothing is preventing him. But why would they fakeclaim anyways? I just don't see the logic in fakeclaiming when you have a real role you can claim.

as I said, what about if you got a vanilla role, then get culted, and then you are about to get lynched? Dont you see the logic in fakeclaiming something that can avoid your lynch?

It was the lack of even recognizing Darox and DGB flipping town, one who you thought was fakeclaiming and the other who you tunneled.

Do you have a game where scum tunneled against a townie and then following day didnt say sorry?

I mean wasn't she back and forth with her read on you?

no, did you at least iso dgb before asking that?

re: bvoit Cult Doctor. I'll wait to see what he says but that would be a super stupid claim coming from cult based on previous game setup.

VOTE: ooba

[xvart]

Soo... Am I supposed to claim now or not?

[xvart]

I am a Townie with the visit ability. My job is to transport things for the local businesses. I've lived in the Quay for my entire life and have seen the ups and downs but this is the worst it has been, even worse than another time. I don't want to see my home run into the ground.

Bunnylover is next.

[xvart]

Oh. Bunnylover is V/LA. In that case, Flameaxe, go ahead.

[xvart]

Regarding Flameaxe and mass claiming, this is the most telling post:

Pretty sure everyone is still following the idea of popcorn claiming...aaaand....

Tajo next.

This post is uniquely in favor of mass claiming and doesn't even suggest that he is opposed to it, regardless of any other opinions. Basically he is saying "keep mass claiming" and nowhere does he mention that mass claiming isn't good unless everyone is in agreement. As for what is the cult motivation for not claiming... it should be obvious. You have something to hide and maybe you didn't talk about what to fake claim in your QT.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Flameaxe

On another note, I have been processing Cobbler's claim and I don't see that role fitting into a cult game. He says something bad will happen to people who try and kill him or confine him (whatever that means). This role is inherently anti town since he can't kill a recruiter that tries to recruit him (recruiters are treestumps) so odds are the only retribution action he will take is against town. Basically, everything Cobbler has claimed has been to keep people from targeting him, actioning against him, or similar.

I am willing to lynch either of these two today. Flameaxe for his contradiction/backpedaling and Cobbler for his fake claim.

[xvart]

I was not, and am still not opposed to massclaiming, so don't go touting that as a point when its completely untrue. My point is, massclaiming only works when the MASS part of it is in effect, this, funny enough, includes every player agreeing to it. I didn't say it, because I assumed it was...well assumed.

But the point is you never once said anything to suggest this

until

you were asked to claim. You just kept plugging along, even saying "well we are mass claiming, who is next? Oh yeah, this person. Claim."

You having a laugh, bro? If only I started the game with some sort of town role that I could use in case someone asks me to claim! OH WAIT, EVERYONE DID. You're better than logic like this, show me.

My apologies if I wasn't clear. You had a town role to start with but that doesn't mean you have not been recruited and used your town powers (if you have them) for scummy purposes, which you may not have discussed what you should

actually

claim as your actions if we massclaimed today.

[xvart]

But the point is you never once said anything to suggest this until you were asked to claim. You just kept plugging along, even saying "well we are mass claiming, who is next? Oh yeah, this person. Claim.

So what is scummy about it then? Obviously it must be pretty damn scummy to vote for the player you have rarely mentioned all game.

Give me a night that I was recruited. Humor me.

It is not scummy to not want to claim. It is scummy to not say anything about not mass claiming unless everyone agreeable and willing until it is your turn to claim. You were cheerleading the claiming the entire time and never once qualified it with "wait, is everyone on board" but instead saying "come on, we're claiming, tajo is next." That is the scummy part, and the fact that you only voiced your alleged opinion after the damage had already been done. Need more scum motivation? You let the claiming go on long enough to know power roles and then said "this is so anti town to claim if not everyone is going to do it."

And finally, the last scum motivation that you seem to dismiss without saying anything about (or are ignoring) is that maybe you are using your original town power (if you have one) for scummy purposes and you don't know how to claim it; or, if cult members can only commit one action per night maybe you have been killing instead of using a power and don't have results for those nights and can't fake claim them.

"You have something to hide and maybe you didn't talk about what to fake claim in your QT."

- From Xvart.
So are you assuming that he is going to fake claim instead of using his real role?

I really don't how this is so difficult to understand. If he is a bodyguard and didn't guard a claimed power role and instead guarded someone on his team; if he is a redirector and redirected a cult doctor or cop; a roleblocker blocking a cult doctor or cop; etc. etc. With the flavor in this game it is a little more difficult to fake claim results or actions.

Pings me. Seems cultish when mentioning on day two, when this is quite possible to have happened

Not really sure how this makes me Cult since I commented on something you think was quite possible to have occurred.

3. Act stupids and asks for clarification around the triangle of Yosarian me and Seraphim claims, also doesn't appear to interested in the results. Is on both of the ABR lynches, but other than that, not much.

I see the point you are trying to make but it isn't really valid since I wasn't asking for the purposes of moving my vote; I just wanted a concise chronology of the events that occurred over multiple multiple pages. Plus, I did reference it later on when talking about Seraphim and how his behavior was suspicious due to him trying to pull the same thing again.

4.

I'm still processing the Scumputer results but based on my preliminary understanding of DGBs thought process I could probably swing for a Darox lynch.

Seems to deflect thinking off himself, also plans to vote Darox weakly here.

What "thinking" was I deflecting off myself?

It only relies on the cult-docs (bvoigt has been confirmed by Lady.), the corrupt cops (solid townread on Ludi + Hero confirmed town by him) and the vigs (NS is definitely town I think. Batt I'm less sure which is why he can be Hero's first target in the plan.) to all be town. If anything goes funny (like no protection on a cult-doc or hero where there's supposed to be) then we lynch the person that failed. It only doesn't work if the cult has a roleblocker.

What's scummy is it relies on all those power roles you listed being town already (which is nearly half the town), not to mention directing all of our power roles to doing something else. The classic "look at my left hand while I steal your wallet with my right hand" sort of scam.

xvart's lynch is reasonable if only because there's not really that many people to choose from in my plan.

Vote: xvart

This is quite the turnaround from your previous commentary on my alignment, and similarly, contingent on everyone that must be town for your plan to work

to actually be town

.

With Cobbler's proposed plan I'm most confident about him being Cult when looking at the sum of his play over the course of the game. Claiming unrecruitable, unclaiming unrecruitable, his scummy plan, and his claim being unbelievable and most likely completely made up. I see the outcome pattern of Cobbler's claims getting people to not target him or that he is untargetable.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Cobblerfone

Once he flips cult we'll have to go back and judge the legitimacy of Flameaxe's vote on him and see if it was a bus on a wagon going nowhere or an actual town vote.

[xvart]

I like the part where xvart attempts to set up a second lynch.

Maybe so, but I think you both are independently scummy of each other but after Cobbler proposed his plan your vote sitting on Cobbler is giving me pause about your alignment. Like I said, the relationship will have to be evaluated after the flip. I recall someone (not sure who, maybe you) that has been moderately vocal about Cobbler needing to be lynched since D1 but there has been neither threat of nor push for his lynch.

Give me a night that I was recruited. Humor me.

Addon: I was expecting an answer to this, xvart.

If you were recruited it would have had to have been N3 or earlier based on what I think you are hiding.

[xvart]

I'm a Vig. I can either target a person OR a location; I've been targeting people, as locations aren't guaranteed to have any effect.

Do you know how your vig ability works when you target a location? Also, why didn't you target Yos2 or LLD the following nights after failing to kill them the previous night?

I think it is likely he was recruited just because he came under such heavy attack, and has sat around and not acted the same because he didn't espect to re-draw any heat. I also think his posting style is more indicative of cult wanting to comment on the game than town wanting to piece it together and break it apart.

If you take a look at most all of my other games I've had a similar posting pattern of what I suppose could be described as moderate lurking (due to excessive work responsibilities and it being my busiest time of year), with the exception of one or two games where I have gotten in pissing matches with other players. I'm also having difficulty honing my "cult hunting" skills.

@xvart: What caused you to say this? It seems odd, since Kinetic was convinced that DGB was an ABR recruit, and I cult doc'ed her N1.

Hell, Kinetic could have tried to recruit DGB last night and failed for one reason or another (ABR recruit already?).

You said my point exactly. If Kinetic legitimately believed that DBG was an ABR recruit it could have been because he attempted to recruit DBG and failed, therefor thinking she had already been recruited. And the relevance of you cult doctoring DGB is what since at the time nobody knew you cult doc'ed anyone?

I don't think the day one wagon would prevent xvart from being recruited on night 3 or 4.

This is where the logic in me being cult starts to fall apart. It's being said that I am cult because of my play deviating, but I'm not a likely cult recruit N1 because of the suspicion I took D1. You said my play deviated starting D2 when it is highly unlikely I was recruited due to the suspicion I was under the previous day. But if I was recruited night 3 or 4 the reason you think I am cult is not sound since the cult behavior you think I am exhibiting started before you think I could have been recruited.

[xvart]

What I'm saying is that it could point to inside information, since only a Kinetic recruit could know that he failed to recruit DGB. And since I protected her, the situation you suggested is pretty plausible.

In Succession I the team I was recruited to was boned hard because of attempt to recruit someone that had already been recruited so I have experience with this particular area. When that happened I pushed for that person (Me=Weird I think) to get lynched very publicly and very openly, so the most logical conclusion (in my eyes) for a stumped recruiter to come out guns blazing like that is because they failed a recruit.

Well, your posting and behavior is what it is, and I'm glad we're not discussing that. However, I think that it is cult behavior, and you are cult. I think you would agree with me if we were discussing another player, but since its you, obviously you are going to claim you are still town

I got your vote confused with hero's (the recruited D3 or later); but posting long walls/catch up type posts is pretty much par of the course of my play in large games. Not for nothing but I just replaced out of a large game that just started because I've decided to phase out playing in large games because I simply cannot keep up with them compared to mini games.

Amrun

- you should vote Cobbler instead of me. On D1, out of the blue and under very little pressure he claimed to be unrecruitable. Then, on D2 he unclaimed unrecruitable and said the moderator was ambiguous about whether or not he was actually unrecruitable. Then, he claimed a bomb like role. Then he proposed a plan that essentially directed all of our recruitment protection roles, vigs, and cops to specific targets. All of these behaviors indicate:

1. He doesn't want to be targeted by an action;
   
2. He wants people to believe he is untargetable by certain actions;
   
3. Wants to know specifically what every power role is doing in the night.

If those aren't cult motivated behaviors I don't know what is.

[xvart]

Amrun

- you should vote Cobbler instead of me. On D1, out of the blue and under very little pressure he claimed to be unrecruitable. Then, on D2 he unclaimed unrecruitable and said the moderator was ambiguous about whether or not he was actually unrecruitable. Then, he claimed a bomb like role. Then he proposed a plan that essentially directed all of our recruitment protection roles, vigs, and cops to specific targets. All of these behaviors indicate:

1. He doesn't want to be targeted by an action;
   
2. He wants people to believe he is untargetable by certain actions;
   
3. Wants to know specifically what every power role is doing in the night.

If those aren't cult motivated behaviors I don't know what is.

Forgot to add:
4.) His bomb claim doesn't fit in this game type.

[xvart]

If you do not correct something which is incorrect in this list & I find out via a watch - I'll consider it as a "culled" claim.

Remind me but I remember you not having conclusive information about specific people visiting places, only more a voyeur type role knowing someone visited a place. So how does location claiming help you determine if someone is lying about their location?

Look, I'm an Army Veteran. The details of my role are vague. I don't even know if I die or not when attacked.

I'm not going to respond to Yosarian2's post about the unrecruitable modifier.

Cobble - care to elaborate on flavor behind your unrecruitableness?

It might hint too much at the role I have.

t means I asked Mr. Flay if I was unrecruitable. He said he couldn't answer. (paraphrased of coursed) Therefore, I assumed I was unrecruitable and still do.

No it didn't. Not outright, I simply guessed because of the wording.

Now that you are claimed I would like to hear more detail about the flavor that led you to believe you were unrecruitable.

So Xvart is scummy for *knowing* that Cobblerfone is scum and then using that flip to line up Flameaxe's lynch. Of course Cobbler is probably town, so that implication won't apply, and is really just an attempt by Xvart to distance himself from Flameaxe.

Woah, let's get a few things straight. I think they are both scummy but not by association to each other so one flip does not mean anything about the other one's alignment. The reason I even mentioned them together was because Flameaxe had been sitting on Cobbler most (?) of the day already; plus I remember somebody (maybe Flameaxe?) saying several times something along the lines of "I really want to lynch Cobbler today but there is no support." It might have been Flameaxe but I don't remember, which is why I said pending Cobbler's cult flip I would have to reevaluate my Flameaxe read to see if Flameaxe was just sitting around saying Cobbler should be lynched/voting Cobbler knowing it wasn't going to go anywhere or if he legitimately believed he was Cult the whole time. I don't see how you can think I'm lining up lynches, especially since I said my reads sort of contradicted themselves with Flameaxe voting Cobble, which is why I said it would need to be reevaluated. I am voting the person who I find scummy unique to their play this game and independent of anyone else: you.

@Amrun: Perhaps I was mistaken then.

I don't care anymore. Short of a Cop-result one of xvart, zdenek, and Flameaxe is definitely getting lynched and that's making me happy.

PREDIT: Woah, L-1 is happening. Out of the two I probably prefer xvart.

VOTE: xvart

Watch zdenek flip cult.

Seriously, why am I the only one voting this guy now? Cobble has two of the scummiest individual posts of the game on this page alone. And seriously, how many times are you going to flip flop on me today?

[xvart]

If you do not correct something which is incorrect in this list & I find out via a watch - I'll consider it as a "culled" claim.

Remind me but I remember you not having conclusive information about specific people visiting places, only more a voyeur type role knowing someone visited a place. So how does location claiming help you determine if someone is lying about their location?

When I watch a particular location, I get info about who stays there and who also visits during a particular night. For example
-- On one night, I just saw a player walk into the location (which confirmed that it was his base location)
-- On the night I watched the bank, I saw SL+Batt arriving and walking in together
So my watch results are useless if I can't accurately target the location of the person who I want to watch.

The night you watched the bank you saw an unknown person, too; right? Or were you delaying information release to try and snag Batt? I can't remember how it played out. The other question I have is when someone location moves do they stay at that location or do they return to their home base every night?

but it's no big loss if one of the other two is lynched instead.

It is if we lynch town since the worst case scenario puts us pretty close to lost.

I've thought about it, and I do not think claiming home base matters.
#22, barber shop.
Though I want ooba to come with something very big, otherwise I'd like to see him lynched.

This post is incredibly weird. You want to lynch someone unless they provide something big? How does that make any sense or pro town in anyway? Either way you splice it you are wanting to lynch someone who you hope can provides big information or you are letting scum live another night before you want to lynch him. Are you hoping he provides information on a scum partner or are you delaying the lynch of someone you think is scum? Either way, you aren't lynching someone who you think is scum; it doesn't make sense.

I know this was directed at Ooba, but I don't think it's terrible as long as that person can be confirmed town by Hero in the same night simply because I don't like doubt.

Again, directing all night actions to a small percent of the population while the Cult runs amok on the larger population. Got it. The point is that we have multiple ways of preventing cult recruitment or catching Cult in a single night, and if we direct all of our resources to a single target we eliminate the double dip effect while telling the cult exactly where to go and what to do to maximize their efforts. The only benefit I can see to doing this is that it gives us a narrower lynch pool to find who was recruited that night; but the eliminated pool is so small it would be insignificant.

[xvart]

Flameaxe, ConSpiracy, xvart? (I need to reread his interactions.)

I would suggest rereading your ISO from yesterday about me but that wouldn't really give you a substantive opinion of me since it waxed and waned all day.

I targeted Yos, but he's apparently very hard to find.

Lol, Yos was near confirmed town (could only be scum when ML was scum)

Not to mention he had a 50/50 chance of being JKed again...

[xvart]

The problem with Nobody Special is that he almost certainly did target Yos2 because he provided the flavor of not finding him before either Yos2 or ML confirmed it happened which would be risky since ML was playing with the idea of not protecting him. The point is that as cult this would have to have been a collective decision and I don't see any group of cult members thinking that was a good idea.

[xvart]

I finally have power back.

@Batt: I changed my mind. Through Yos' refusal, I realized I didn't have any benefit to claim. The only benefit to claiming in a game like this is to get information out, if I had information, I would have claimed it. I said this yesterday, almost exactly the same thing.

No, actually yesterday you said claiming was only beneficial if everyone else did it, and you wouldn't claim unless everyone else did, too.

That last thing was meant only semi-jokingly.

Why did you feel the need to clarify how serious or not serious your comment was? Do you believe it or not?

Question: What night was I recruited?

Distraction tactics. "If you can't tell me what night I was recruited then I can't possibly be recruited. I already said yesterday that I think you were recruited N3 or earlier. Since you generated this discussion point do you have a reason that you were not recruited these nights? In fact, now that we have a missing/unclaimed roleblocker my suspicion of why I think you were/are refusing to claim and the way it transpired makes me believe you have been recruited and can't claim because of the flavor confirming your actions by other people. You've been using your "town power" for scummy purposes.

VOTE: Flameaxe

[xvart]

I said a massclaim is only beneficial if everyone does it. Difference. My opinion on claiming changed through the day.

Are you refusing to claim because not everyone else claimed or are you refusing to claim because you had no information to claim?

I don't see how asking someone what day they think I was recruited if they are soooooo sure I'm scum (like Batt seems to be) is distracting..

It's a scapegoat and a diversion. "If you can't tell me exactly what day I was recruited then your justification for thinking I'm cult is invalid."

However, I never commuted (neither did Fritzler), because it doesn't make any sense to commute.
1. If culted, cult becomes more powerful. (so do I then)
2. If copped, I am innocent.
3. If doc'ed, no harm done
4. If RB'ed, no harm done
5. If tracked/watched etc. no harm done.
6. If vigged, I am apparently too culty. (Mislynch avoided)
7. If I do not commute, I could visit a spot

So you're saying when you commute you get culted even though you aren't home? And how do you know this playbook of results during your non-existent commuting? Was this in your role pm? Did you ask Flay? And how does a vig think you are too "culty" to miss you while you aren't even home?

This claim is bogus. Too much information is provided to make it appear to be legitimate PLUS I don't see Flay being so specific about information (whether prompted or provided) when every thing else in the game is so ambiguous.

VOTE: ConSpiracy

Herodotus has said that Flameaxe didn't roleblock him. Now let's move on.

Oh okay, in that case...

@Hero: At least in the case of Cobble, I'm trying to get anything out of him. He's been spouting on about how I'm scum off and on for the better part of the past two game days without much of a reason. You may not be able to prove that someone is scum, but someone should at least be held accountable to give a reason. I can't convince someone that they are wrong when their entire case is that "I feel like the main scum".

There are other reasons why people think you are scum, and if you stopped caring when I said I thought you believed you recruited why is it any different for another player?

[xvart]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ConSpiracy

[xvart]

Because I had my vote was somewhere else and I didn't unvote in the previous post.

[xvart]

I think xvart/dgb could have locked me down to stop me from recruiting. If DGB/xvart blocked me and ML continued to block Yos, then we'd have lost as we would have been unable to recruit.

I actually asked whether I could target you/Albert before I was recruited but got the nice ambiguous "you can target them but you don't know what will happen" or something like that. I was afraid I would get auto recruited or killed or lose my ability or something bad. I just thought it would be too easy if I could actually block the recruiters.

[xvart]

This was the convo:

I'm assuming that I can't block Kinetic and Albert?

I didn't say that - but I didn't say you could, either.

[xvart]

Also, sad I failed town here more so than winning. I was actually pretty spot on about Yos2, and xvart, just got sidetracked a little. bah.

Yeah I was sweating the second wagon that popped on me. I had been struggling due to work related issues affecting my ability to keep in large games, even more so to push phoney cases. The one thing I was trying to lead my attackers into looking into or asking was comparing my play to the last game when I was recruited early. I didn't want to be like "oooohh self meta" so I kept dropping little things like that to try and get someone to say "wait, how did xvart play as cult" even though it would have only been a one game meta sample. I felt (and still do) bad about my lack of activity but even once my work settled down and once I got out from under the second wagon I felt, unfortunately, that I kind of had to keep it going.

I was having a lot of fun with the RBer speculation and was laughing at Flameaxe being accused of being the RBer. When Flameaxe refused to claim I was trying so hard to pin the RBer on him without being obvious about "he's hiding scummy actions" since that is exactly why I didn't claim. I was trying so hard to get someone to say he could be a RBer; I was waiting on Hero to jump on it and claim he had been RBed; which is why I suggested a redirector instead of RBer.

I also want to say that I think the conversation about me being hard to lynch on D1 cursed me. Although flattering, I literally got lynched in more games the next two weeks than I had my entire previous MS tenure.

I couldn't believe Yos2 defending me like he did. As has been said, that was a pivotal moment and one of those risk/reward scenarios that worked perfectly. I don't I would ever have the balls to do something like that.

I also was having severe paranoia about there actually being a mafia faction in the game, mostly because of Cobbler's late game claim since I had RBed (confined) him two nights (one of which DGB blocked me). I laughed when Flay asked me if I cared if I died in the final scene because at that point I knew his claim was real and the irony was lulz.

[xvart]

I'm 95% sure I told them they could change choices until they got results, though... anyway, I perhaps should have made that clear, but ABR's team definitely didn't have the cohesion of Kinetic's, and that probably hurt his chances.

The cohesion makes all the difference with any scum team, and especially in cult games, I think. I felt about the same way that Prozac feels this game in Succession I where we were so disjointed and couldn't get our scraps together and failed horribly. Although I didn't really contribute to the scheming/planning of my team it was nice having people planning and being able to work with/from that instead of just mindlessly going around hoping for the best.