Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[Zdenek]

Diminishes his level of play when given a slight amount of attention for being a possible recruit target

What makes you say this?

This post. And this one.

The example of good play that you provided occurred in Post 97, and Ludi suggest Chronopie as a possible recruit in 83 and Rampage suggested it in 95, so I'm having a hard time buying your argument.

(Also at zdenek, I am not an alt. We had been playing a game in large normal together, sheesh!)

That doesn't preclude you from being an alt, but it's not important.

As for Ludi's list, I think it's obvious that telling scum what you think they are thinking while your goal is to outguess them is not very wise.

So you think Ludi is scum because he is trying to communicate with his recruiter through his list or am I missing something?

[Zdenek]

Question to everyone:
Does anyone think either of ABR or kinetic would have been ballsy enough to put their recruitment pick in their 3 that they suggested to each other?

I am ignoring their lists.

[xvart]

? Backpedaling. All over?

Yes; backpedaling. All over.

Okay, I think Yosarian might be

the other recruit.

What are you going on about? Two recruiters. IF xvart is one, Yosarian is the speculated other. Though, I guess we shouldn't assume that there's only two.

It would be rather odd for there to be only one recruit per team in N0 I think.

The other recruit, meaning one recruit in addition to the one you think has already been identified. Conveniently, once questioned, it would suddenly be odd/unlikely for there to be only one recruit per team.

VOTE: Popular Tajo

I don't think I'm allowed to say why. But he's a "doctor". I'd recruit the doctor even

if he weren't guranteed to be a "role-doctor".

It was more like me trying to

not lynch a potential PR.

Your first statement makes me believe that you would have recruited a doctor name role on the off chance that he would actually be a doctor; otherwise you are saying that you would have recruited him just because he had doctor in his name... Then you go on to say that you were trying to avoid lynching a potential PR, which your previously suggested is who you would have recruited. If the recruiters are behaving in the same manner that you are you should be lynching that person. And, your bail on that wagon makes no sense because you wanted to avoid lynching a potential PR so why did you jump on that wagon to begin with. You are obviously trying to sneak onto whatever wagon you can without making waves and then when you do make waves change your story.

I didn't know we teamsters all had different roles. I also didn't know if we all had the same role. I won't say anything else.

I was settling for a policy lynch.

Would you rather policy lynch someone or someone you think is scum?

Did you miss her post where she said that the timestamps weren't a reason for calling you scum?

No, I didn't miss it. But out of the four people she identified as potential scum picks, I was selected because I had posted less frequently than the others (i.e. the timestamp).

I do want to talk about we plan on doing when Xvart close to a lynch. Making someone claim in this case doesn't work, since everybody has a claim ready. So, we will just WIFOM them to death (but like, a good WIFOM).

I have no intention of claiming if I am strung up to L-1 with an intent to hammer because it will matter naught since role has no bearing on alignment. And, I don't want Kinetic/ABR to know if I have a role that would be beneficial to them or not so they can WIFOM over whether or not to recruit me if somehow my wagon falters. I am aligned with town and if I get up to L-1 there is no benefit to claiming.

xvart does look a little frayed around the edges in his replies, but I'm unsure whether he has played with DGB before.

DGB and I have played together several times and I think we usually have a petty bickering and mud slinging contest against each other one way or the other. I don't think either of us has actually ever successfully identified the other as scum during those times.

The example of good play that you provided occurred in Post 97, and Ludi suggest Chronopie as a possible recruit in 83 and Rampage suggested it in 95, so I'm having a hard time buying your argument.

First of all, thank you. I thought there was someone else that identified Chronopie as a good recruit but missed it when rereading.

• Ludi suggested Chrono as a recruit in 83;
  
• ABR suggested Chrono as a recruit in 95;
  
• Chrono is self deprecating in post 97;
  
• Chrono is again self deprecating in 116.

Once identified as a decent player and good recruit on N0 he starts saying how he wouldn't be a good recruit. That is the chronology I'm talking about.

[springlullaby]

So you think Ludi is scum because he is trying to communicate with his recruiter through his list or am I missing something?

No, I'm ok with my vote on Ludi right now because I don't think his list idea is good for the town for the reasons I've already cited you've quoted: "I think it's obvious that telling scum what you think they are thinking while your goal is to outguess them is not very wise".
It's a self handicapping process, meaning that it is at best not well thought out townie plan, at worst scum trying to look busy while creating air.

Btw, I'm ignoring those lists too and I can't fathom why anyone would try decipher anything in them. Haven't you ever done lists as scum? Have you ever been outguessed at it by town? <--- Me, no.

[springlullaby]

Also, I like the last post from xvart.

[Herodotus]

Herodotus

, are you voting me because I'm voting Ludi and "you wouldn't want him pressured too hard". If so, why me?

As for Ludi's list, I think it's obvious that telling scum what you think they are thinking while your goal is to outguess them is not very wise.

1) I voted you because you were on my list of people I might choose as a first recruit, and you were the first to attack someone I thought was town.
2) I can accept that as your point of view even though I disagree, but there's a big difference between a townie making an unwise decision and a scum. Ludi saying who he would have made a first recruit or encouraging others to do the same gives scum no advantage, because they can't change their minds. It may influence their decision of whom they will recruit in the future, but any scumhunting we do will have that effect, and we should be resetting our reads at the beginning of each day regardless.

What don't you like, Nobody?

Not sure what I think of the balance of white flag here. We could lynch scum every day and still lose, if they successfully recruit each night and don't get vigged.

[Dry-fit]

dry-fit: I've seen him play as scum, and although we lynched him, he played well. Also, I haven't seen him around much, so I'd say he's low profile. He's the person I would have picked, but kinetic and Albert might not have the same opinion.

Haha. You would have been my pick based on your play in the same game.

Question to everyone:
Does anyone think either of ABR or kinetic would have been ballsy enough to put their recruitment pick in their 3 that they suggested to each other?

Sure.

Cobbler's play does seem the most suspicious to me, but he's seems like such an unlikely recruit....

I don't really see much in the Xvart case.

[Katsuki]

Haven't read game yet. Erg.

Though, optimal play seems clear to me. Lurk until my eventual mislynch.

>.>b

[Porochaz]

I am about to read over but I wanted to talk a little about Succession 1 first and hopefully explain the variance in normal reading. In Succession 1, Yos2 was knowingly recruited, a unique position and one he used to be a cock with. We couldnt lynch him because he wasn't the recruiter and it was best to know who our enemies were. However he used the position to manipulate town and despite it being clear he was cult, people still believed him, particularly about the size of cults. This infuriated me then, especially as in the end I was right about the size of cults in the factions and I wasnt believed because "yos said differently". So Im going to read over from about page 5 but I will be likely ignoring Kinetic and ABR and recommending everyone else do the same. There interests are not the same as towns.

[Porochaz]

On another note, I could see Prozac being recruited since he had announced V/LA for an extended period of time in the sign up thread.

K I am up to this post.

My V/LA technically ended on May 21st. I am now in the period of moving from my flat to my home and various "trying to find a job" things so there will be some more v/la but I will tell you about that beforehand, (I move out on the 1st, so I will likely be away the days surrounding that) and the internet company is being gay, but if that happens I will post an URGENT alert from a computer cafe somewhere. Anyway Im here on full access for now.

Hero's vote on Cobb is a good vote,

vote Cobb

Yos's vote on xvart doesn't seem yosish. DGB's vote is DGB, self defined as arbitrary amongst a short list of recruits. Yos who I view as a logical player and takes the bull by the horns approach sheeping that, doesn't stick

FoS Yos

DGB's claim, I was in a game with DGB recently where she claimed vig, in the end she fucked scum over, as Ythill the actual vig stayed quiet so she subverted the kill and he managed to shoot scum before dying himself, but regardless, the claim in what is meant to be a more balanced game makes it a lot more swingy. It also seems like a bastard role in what is a non-bastard game. It would also mean one of the cults could potentially lose day 1.

I feel I had something else to say about DGB but I dont remember.

[Porochaz]

Finished page 8 and yos's post on BBM isn't fair and is a bit illogical. Cobbs subsequent posts make me happy of my vote and Zdenek post at the bottom of page 8, makes me wary that he seems to be strongly in favour of cutting out the newbies as potential recruits which includes himself

[Porochaz]

Ok so not much has changed over the past few pages although xvart is clearly town.

What I forgot to say about DGB was simply she was already taking my stance on Albert/Kinetic.

In regards to Hero's 230, I questioned Flay about this and obviously he couldn't say anything but did make it clear town can win the game.

[Cobblerfone]

Your first statement makes me believe that you would have recruited a doctor name role on the off chance that he would actually be a doctor; otherwise you are saying that you would have recruited him just because he had doctor in his name... Then you go on to say that you were trying to avoid lynching a potential PR, which your previously suggested is who you would have recruited. If the recruiters are behaving in the same manner that you are you should be lynching that person. And, your bail on that wagon makes no sense because you wanted to avoid lynching a potential PR so why did you jump on that wagon to begin with. You are obviously trying to sneak onto whatever wagon you can without making waves and then when you do make waves change your story.

I know the role I have. I was halfway sure that all teamsters might've had it too. To explain in short: I'm unrecruitable. The scum will have to lynch or kill me. That's the difference that made me not want to lynch you.

I didn't know we teamsters all had different roles. I also didn't know if we all had the same role. I won't say anything else.

I was settling for a policy lynch.

Would you rather policy lynch someone or someone you think is scum?

I switched votes didn't I? If someone's more suspicious, I'll switch again.

[xvart]

I switched votes didn't I? If someone's more suspicious, I'll switch again.

Yes, you switched votes but well after you should have and only under pressure to do so. In fact, you refer to people as caught scum and identifying people as scum and "the other scum" such that you might have switched votes here, definitely should have switched votes here, and barring none of those switches, should have switched votes here.

[Cobblerfone]

I switched when you revealed we probably weren't the same role.

And the post right after I accuse Yosarian of being the "other recruit", I acknowledge that it's only an impression. And that my impressions are not things I take seriously anymore.

[bvoigt]

In other news I don't like battouasi's 206.

vote: battouasi

Why?

[Yosarian2]

Yos's vote on xvart doesn't seem yosish. DGB's vote is DGB, self defined as arbitrary amongst a short list of recruits. Yos who I view as a logical player and takes the bull by the horns approach sheeping that, doesn't stick

Prozac: Sheeping? Really?

Xvert was exactly who I was thinking of in my post on page 2, long before DGB attacked him. He's one of the most logical day 1 recruitment choices; have you ever seen Xvert get lynched on day 1 of a game? I don't believe I have, at least not as far as I can remember. My vote on him really has nothing to do with DGB's vote.

That being said, DGB is looking pretty town so far this game, so sheeping her doesn't sound like a bad idea anyway.

[Kinetic]

To explain in short: I'm unrecruitable.

CLAIMED UNRECRUITABLE PLAYER!!!

LYNCH THE FUCK OUT OF HIM PLEASE!!!

Also,

For the sake of the agreement we had, I will nominate Fritzler, Chronopie and ThAdmiral for yours.

Question to everyone:

Does anyone think either of ABR or kinetic would have been ballsy enough to put their recruitment pick in their 3 that they suggested to each other?

For the record I don't think so.

Everyone will think I'm WiFOMing or w/e, so I won't add analysis. I'm merely pointing these things out. You look at the, discuss them hopefully, and draw your own conclusions. I just find both of these things mighty suspicious.

[Chronopie]

To explain in short: I'm unrecruitable.

CLAIMED UNRECRUITABLE PLAYER!!!

LYNCH THE FUCK OUT OF HIM PLEASE!!!

No.

For the sake of the agreement we had, I will nominate Fritzler, Chronopie and ThAdmiral for yours.

Question to everyone:

Does anyone think either of ABR or kinetic would have been ballsy enough to put their recruitment pick in their 3 that they suggested to each other?

For the record I don't think so.

Everyone will think I'm WiFOMing or w/e, so I won't add analysis. I'm merely pointing these things out. You look at the, discuss them hopefully, and draw your own conclusions. I just find both of these things mighty suspicious.

This looks enough like the town ThAd I've seen for me to put him as town for today.

I'm using this game as a reference.

[Yosarian2]

I know the role I have. I was halfway sure that all teamsters might've had it too. To explain in short: I'm unrecruitable. The scum will have to lynch or kill me. That's the difference that made me not want to lynch you.

Why would you claim uncrecrutable when you're nowhere near a lynch? If you were really unrecruitable, your goal should have been to act really town and try to "soak up" some recruitment attempts, not to claim.

On the other hand, an unrecruitable fakeclaim makes a lot of sense for a recruit to make. You wouldn't have to worry about the other side trying to recruit you and finding out your alignment that way, for one thing.

From a setup point of view, the existence of some kind of unrecruitables is probable. If the scum don't sometimes fail to recruit, the town couldn't possibly win. It's worth mentioning, though, that in Flay's last cult game, there weren't any "plain" unrecruitables; the real unrecrutables were roles like "unrecrutable 1 shot vig" or "unrecrutable recruit-preventing-doctor" or such.

[Porochaz]

Well on page 2 your only post was confirm and I started on page 5. However as thats arbitrary I went and looked, nowhere do you mention xvart before page 5. Which would all be fine and dandy but you agree with DGB in your voting post. It seems to me that you are using him as a scapegoat off of DGB's random vote. You don't add anything with your vote, you just say what she said except with more words.

I will claim now.

I'm a whore.

If I'm recruited by mobster A, mobster A will fail, and I will instead by added to mobster B's group.

I have untreated STDs, herpes, HIV, chlamydia, crabs, body lice, and the brothel's bed bug population is kept in check by snakes and gila monsters.

Great claim for someone already recruited.

Or for a townie who doesn't want to get recruited. Or for a dripping goofball who likes saying wacky things.

Anyway, I agree with DGB about xvart. When I was thinking about skilled players who are not high profile, who can still blend in and be relatively unnoticed, the two that came to my mind offhand were xvart and Battousai. So, that seems like a good place to start.

Vote:xvart

CHRONOPIE, DONT BOTHER POSTS TO KINETIC ARE USELESS!!! TRY TALKING TO PLAYERS WHO ARENT CONFIRMED SCUM!!!

[Porochaz]

I should clarify, DGB's random vote of the four.

[Battousai]

Wut what? I already explained how Cobbler's comment resembled a scumslip.

That's not the problem that I saw. I want to know why you think we should treat a noobie with kid gloves. I want to know why I shouldn't press on someone I find to be scummy, because he may make a scumslip (and be town).

[Yosarian2]

Well on page 2 your only post was confirm and I started on page 5. However as thats arbitrary I went and looked, nowhere do you mention xvart before page 5.

Sorry, not page 2, page 3.

When i said this on page 3:

Not a VI, not someone who has an uber-controversial playstyle, not someone who's too high profile either. Day 1, I'd expect you guys to go for someone who's reasonably skilled but who can fly under the radar without really being noticed, one of the good but quiet players that never really get run up on day 1.

The two people I was thinking of were Xvert and Battousai, I just didn't really want to start naming specific suspects until the day started.

[ooba]

I thought we weren't mentioning town reads?

The vibe I get from his xvart's posts here are different from earlier games I've played with him. Not sure if Ley of Leithan would have that big an impact as Succession I on memory and he was recruited N1 there so trusting this read.

Unvote

Vote: Seraphim