Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[bvoigt]

@Magister Ludi: You seem to be almost entirely speculating about the cult recruiters' roles, and who they would be likely to choose, instead of real scumhunting. Why? Also, what did you mean by this?

You're too shy to mention the fourth faction in this game I take it?

[Herodotus]

If he's a good a chance as any, why vote him over any? Any has been pretty scummy.

He has been lurking hard, but I don't think we're allowed to lynch the backup mod.

Post 344- No one cares what would have happened if one of the recruitments failed N0. It didn't happen, and it will have no impact later on.

How do you know that the recruiter who didn't recruit you succeeded?

Yos2, why not briefly state the difference between the earlier question and your recent one?

@Mod: could we have prods for everyone eligible

(as opposed to just populartajo)

[populartajo]

im here, a little bit down for my actions on [redacted-ongoing]

im reading the game tonight.

[Yosarian2]

Yos2, why not briefly state the difference between the earlier question and your recent one?

I was trying to get each one of them to name one specific person that they think their opponent would have recruited, not a general list. Honestly, the more we can get them to name names, the more likely they are to trip themselves up; for one thing, if they were forced to name one specific person, they probably wouldn't bring more attention to their own recruit.

Of course, Kinteic ignored me, and Albert responded by saying he thought Kintetic would have recruited me, hehe. Albert's playing the WIFOM game on a deep level this game.

[Herodotus]

I think I get the joke. It's funny because Albert's the one who recruited you. Saying kinetic might have recruited you is irony because Albert knows that's impossible.

[Battousai]

Herodotus- if one of the recruiters failed, then they would be dead due to the white flag rule.

[RaudhrGarm]

Sorry, my internet crashed recently, and I do have exams going on at the moment. I'm sort of

Semi V/LA

until next Thursday, i.e. I may be able to post my musings, but don't expect too much of me in this game. Apologies again.

[Yosarian2]

I think I get the joke. It's funny because Albert's the one who recruited you. Saying kinetic might have recruited you is irony because Albert knows that's impossible.

Hehe. No, he didn't, but I suspect that he wanted you to wonder. Like I said, he's playing the WIFOM on a deep level this game.

[Seraphim]

Don't worry guys, I'll get to this tomorrow.

I'm still here.

[Flameaxe]

Going a few pages back, expect something soon. Apologies for the delay, blame my boss for a shitty schedule.

[Fritzler]

Going a few pages back, expect something soon. Apologies for the delay, blame my boss for a shitty schedule.

Why is no one dead yet? I must have blood, so I can give the people what they want. Only then, can I be re-elected.

[Magister Ludi]

I actually like Batt as the second recruit. I'm think Kinetic went after Batt and ABR after Yos, for what it's worth.

Batt: "Ludi- I did not vote you for being a probable recruit."

This is a logical problem on many levels. This should be one of the primary reasons to vote someone in this game, as the CR had a choice who to pick. No matter how good I am, picking an unknown quantity as their 'all eggs in one baskets' recruit is bad idea. So if a player is not a probable N1 recruit, its is a terrible idea to vote them, no matter what they do. Do you disagree with this?

"I voted you for trying to get town to focus their scumhunting on those who would be recruited"

That's optimal play....? If you know can try and figure out who they recruit, town wins.

"(which is anti-town at best). I backed it up with the fact that you would be a decent choice for a recruit."

I thought you just estbalished I was a bad choice. Why am I a good choice for a recruit then? Remember, they had to choose before they could ever see me play or post. I have no idea how you came to this conclusion.

"My main point was and still is you trying to get town to focus on outguess the players,"

That is critcal. There are only two scum, and they have been handpicked. Plus, I am now identifying exactly who I think they are, and its fits in with what I have seen from the CR's.

"and your recent posts is you trying to get us to outguess the mod (which is at best, active lurking). "

Wrong. Mod's will try and balance this setup.

---------------------
This part is another ilogical switch-a-roo by you.

"Post 344- No one cares what would have happened if one of the recruitments failed N0. It didn't happen, and it will have no impact later on"

"Herodotus- if one of the recruiters failed, then they would be dead due to the white flag rule."

Seems like you do care.

HOS: batt

[Magister Ludi]

People need to get on these two wagons.

[Flameaxe]

St(r)eamy consciousness starting at 279:

Cobble 290: You have Katsuki listed as "decided to lurk" yet Kat is also one of your town reads. Consider me baffled at your logic here.

Zdenek 300: Removing players from consideration due to a profession mod-confirmed to be flavor only seems like a moronic thing to even consider.

Ooba 311: This is some pretty shitty logic. I expected better out of you. There is no logical reasoning for ruling out anyone as a candidate for recruitment due to their skill/experience. A high caliber player would be seen as a likely choice, but a CR might see this and go for a lower-caliber player, but a CR might think that the town might expect this, so they might...etc. Circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works.

Yos 313: Yeah, we recruited you the night after day one in Succ 1.

Tanarin 329: This post basically sums up my thoughts regarding the claim. Ultimately, I don't really see the claim itself being a huge tell, null if anything, but I just don't see any reason why someone would hurry a claim under the pressure he was under.

Cecily 330: Cop out post is pretty cop out-y. Really not liking this whole "I don't know xvart, so imma take someone elses word for it and blindly follow it" business. Consider this a comment of you jumping up my scumlist.

Spring 333: Question (to you or anyone else who may want to chime in on the whole thing): The cobble claim doesn't make sense from a town point of view, sure, but do you see any situation where it would make sense from a scum point of view any more than a town point of view?

Ludi 341, 342, 344: I'm failing to see any worthwhile reason for these posts. I'd like it much more if you drifted from any setup speculation and moved onto who you feel is scum and why. Setup speculation is simply that, speculation.

Ludi 354: Another rather worthless post. This game will be a lot easier on you if you forget about those two people named ABR and Kinetic. Lynch recruits, win. Simple plan is simple.

Ooba 365: You're really stuck on the whole "recruit the elite, its the bestest" logic, aren't you? I'll just remind you of Succession 1 where BOTH recruiters went after me=wierd night zero, someone who is not an elite player named Yosarian2.

Cobble 370: This post just makes your claim look plain desperate. I still don't see a logical reason to jump from "xvart has correct points against me" to "LOL I SHOULD CLAIM".

Hero 376: That's Ani, not any.

Ludi 386: Not really my post to reply to, but I'd like to get a few comments in.
A) I'm not voting cobble because I think he is a probable recruit. Why? Because voting for someone due to them being a probable recruit is a bunch of WIFOM, and I'd hope you understood that by now. (Refer to circular logic comment above!) I'm voting for Cobble because throughout the day, he has done things that I find scummy, and due to these things, I find him to be the scummiest player on the table (but others are closing in, cough cough, you). I get it, there is a cult. That doesn't mean we should approach this game any differently than any other in terms of finding scum.
B) There really isn't a switch-a-roo. Stop grasping.
C) HoS is lame. (I really didn't have a decent C, so this is what i put)

Ludi 387: Stop trying to limit wagons. Deadline is nowhere close, and trying to draw a line in the sand already is not only a terrible idea, but a damn scummy one in my eyes.

SORRY IT'S A BIT WALL OF TEXT-Y. Had a few pages to dig through.

[Magister Ludi]

Flame, The point is the two issues must go hand in hand, being recruitable and presenting anti-town actions. If you aren't really a good hcoice for being recruited, it makes no sense to vote someone, and if you're are doing anti-actions, it also doesn't make sense to do one.

But you and others are acting as if one face of this coin doesn't exist. If it makes no sense (yes this can be turned into circular logic, but some people just aren't optimal choices) to recruit someone, I don't care if they claim scum or lurk or whatever, they're not a good lynch. (insert adjective here) lynching someone who is probably not recruited in this game is just a terrible plan. (that being said, if someone is doing anti-town actions and it is resonable they were recruited, like Yos2 and Batt, they make good lynches)

As for the HOS, I felt like a finger was only 1/5 as strong as I wanted it to be :p.

[Magister Ludi]

Holy smokes that is not clear at all. First paragraph should read

"Flame, The point is that the following two issues must go hand in hand, being a good recruit target and performing anti-town actions. If a particular player is not a good choice for being recruited, it makes no sense to vote that player, and if a player is not doing anti-town actions, it also doesn't make sense to vote that player (the regular side of mafia)"

[Albert B. Rampage]

So....anyone looking for a job?

[Flameaxe]

But the real issue here is the fact that the whole concept of a player being recruitable is a giant pile of WIFOM that is excessive for this part of a game. Mixing WIFOM and scumhunting is not a worthwhile endeavor, nor should it ever be. Unless you have some magical way of reading the CR's mind, I don't really see a reason to bother outguessing them straight up. As for circular logic, the sheer fact that it CAN be turned into circular logic should be a reason to stay away from it.

I don't see a single person on that player list (beyond ABR and Kinetic) that should be seen as a possible recruit, it just makes little sense to rule anyone out. I'd also hate to be the one to point it out, but your case on Batt is pretty much awful. The yos case isn't as bad, but is pretty far from good.

PEDIT: It was clear enough, honestly.

[bvoigt]

Ludi, I think you're ignoring my question.

[ThAdmiral]

You know what...

vote: xvart

he's a good a chance as any.

Cool bandwagon, bro. If he's a good a chance as any, why vote him over any? Any has been pretty scummy.

Xvart is closer to lynch than any, but

fos: any

. He's one to watch for tomorrow...

@Cobbler: Claiming this early is stupid, especially as a town-PR in a dualing cult game.

Especially as someone who apparently can't be recruited. Wouldn't you want the cults to waste their recruitment on you?

So....anyone looking for a job?

Doing what?
And what's the hourly rate?

[ThAdmiral]

But the real issue here is the fact that the whole concept of a player being recruitable is a giant pile of WIFOM that is excessive for this part of a game. Mixing WIFOM and scumhunting is not a worthwhile endeavor, nor should it ever be. Unless you have some magical way of reading the CR's mind, I don't really see a reason to bother outguessing them straight up. As for circular logic, the sheer fact that it CAN be turned into circular logic should be a reason to stay away from it.

I don't see a single person on that player list (beyond ABR and Kinetic) that should be seen as a possible recruit, it just makes little sense to rule anyone out. I'd also hate to be the one to point it out, but your case on Batt is pretty much awful. The yos case isn't as bad, but is pretty far from good.

While this is true it is also logical to state the following:

1. Abr/Kinetic would want to recruit good players
2. Abr/Kinetic would want to recruit players that are unlikely to be lynched day 1 (perhaps based on their history)
Therefore:
3. Abr/Kinetic are likely to recruit someone who they deem the

best player that is unlikely to be lynched day 1

They could choose to act illogically (for example choosing someone who is not considered a good player, or someone who is likely to be lynched day 1), but that would be sub-optimal play for them.

[springlullaby]

Spring 333: Question (to you or anyone else who may want to chime in on the whole thing): The cobble claim doesn't make sense from a town point of view, sure, but do you see any situation where it would make sense from a scum point of view any more than a town point of view?

I think it might be something I could have tried as an investigation proof scum. What with the lying low since the claim.
I need to look at his meta though.

Cobbler

, what do you think of that? Wanna vote yourself to prove that you aren't scum?

[Battousai]

So if a player is not a probable N1 recruit, its is a terrible idea to vote them, no matter what they do. Do you disagree with this?

Sincerely... you don't try and vote someone for being a probable recruit, you do it because they are scummy. You may use it to back up your case, but not make it your only point. See: Just about everything I've been saying today about you.

I thought you just estbalished I was a bad choice. Why am I a good choice for a recruit then? Remember, they had to choose before they could ever see me play or post. I have no idea how you came to this conclusion.

The whole WIFOM of not selecting a well known player in order to get someone no one suspects to survive until D2. Again, not my main point, just using it to boost the case a bit.

and your recent posts is you trying to get us to outguess the mod (which is at best, active lurking).

Wrong. Mod's will try and balance this setup.

Duh... but that doesn't mean we just sit around and talk about the setup while we braid each other's hair. We got shit to do. This is just active lurking.

"Post 344- No one cares what would have happened if one of the recruitments failed N0. It didn't happen, and it will have no impact later on"

"Herodotus- if one of the recruiters failed, then they would be dead due to the white flag rule."

Seems like you do care.

It's obvious, we don't need to discuss it. No one cares what would of happened since it will not come up again (there's only 1 N0). We already know what did happen (both recruiters have a min of 1 recruit).

[Cobblerfone]

[quote="Flameaxe"Cobble 290: You have Katsuki listed as "decided to lurk" yet Kat is also one of your town reads. Consider me baffled at your logic here.[/quote]

It was the way Kats announced the lurking. Though, it'll be bad if she's recruited. Maybe we should lynch Kats so she can't keep herself from showing a difference in playstyles?

...I'll just remind you of Succession 1 where BOTH recruiters went after me=wierd night zero...

Wasn't that Seraphim and me=weird replaced him?

[Cobblerfone]

sorry everyone. Here's it formatted correctly:

You have Katsuki listed as "decided to lurk" yet Kat is also one of your town reads. Consider me baffled at your logic here.

It was the way Kats announced the lurking. Though, it'll be bad if she's recruited. Maybe we should lynch Kats so she can't keep herself from showing a difference in playstyles?

...I'll just remind you of Succession 1 where BOTH recruiters went after me=wierd night zero...

Wasn't that Seraphim and me=weird replaced him?