Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[Kinetic]

Hey, I'm here a lot. Just don't have a lot to say. I figure I know who your recruit is likely, but even if I say something about it the town doesn't care.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Save poor xvart, Kinetic. Make up some wifom that will make the unvotes go away...

[Flameaxe]

Oh.

Flameaxe, do you know how the mechanics worked in succesion I?

Actually anyone from the game I guess could answer that. It'll save me the looking.

Generally, but I'm not so certain the mechanics will be the same with the stumped CRs. You might need to be more specific on which mechanics you want me to flesh out.

[Dry-fit]

There are only two anti-town players and no one can be accused of buddying. Its the optimal time to converse.

How do you know this?

People that need to post more:
Katsuki (Who's decided to lurk)

Townreads for today:
Katsuki

Don't see why people think Cobble was recruited after his claim, as much as the rest of his play makes it look like he was.

In other news, I'm fairly happy with the xvart case. If he starts acting less scummy and more townish, I'd be willing to flip to Yos.

Why?

Unvote, Vote Katsuki
Obvious lurker recruit is obvious. How could I forget that ._.

Why Katsuki and not me or some other lurker?

Vote: ThAdmiral.

Don't like his ump on the xvart wagon, and seems like a good recruit candidate to me.

[ThAdmiral]

Xvart is closer to lynch than any, but

fos: any

. He's one to watch for tomorrow...

Ani is the backup mod.

Well played sir.

I'm thinking yes. I'm thinking there might be other scum than cult too. But maybe I'm wrong.

But surely they couldn't be recruitable which would cause problems.

Vote: ThAdmiral.

Don't like his ump on the xvart wagon, and seems like a good recruit candidate to me.

Why thank you!

[Chronopie]

/prodded. So soon.

Re: S1's mechanics: Recruit OR Kill, the CRs had to pick which, and couldn't do both the same night,

But the cult/mafia groups could still kill after CR death (obv not relevant for this one, CRs are stumps)

I doubt there's more scum than the two Mafia Groups. Introducing more than 3 sides in a cult game would be a headache.

--

Out of curiosity, what colours are the cults this game?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Honestly we don't know

[Yosarian2]

yosa:

VOTE: Popular Tajo

I don't think I'm allowed to say why. But he's a "doctor". I'd recruit the doctor even if he weren't guranteed to be a "role-doctor".

this screams vi rather than recruited scum, agree?

Dunno, as newbie scum I would do that kind of "look I'm a newbie" too. It's a hard call to make.

except the difference here is that recruiters wouldnt go for newbies.

Yeah, the whole "scum probably wouldn't recruit newbies" wifom stuff is a very valid argument, and it's the main reason I'm not voting cobbler right now.

[Tanarin]

yosa:

VOTE: Popular Tajo

I don't think I'm allowed to say why. But he's a "doctor". I'd recruit the doctor even if he weren't guranteed to be a "role-doctor".

this screams vi rather than recruited scum, agree?

Dunno, as newbie scum I would do that kind of "look I'm a newbie" too. It's a hard call to make.

except the difference here is that recruiters wouldnt go for newbies.

Yeah, the whole "scum probably wouldn't recruit newbies" wifom stuff is a very valid argument, and it's the main reason I'm not voting cobbler right now.

But with all the wifom flying around, can we be so sure that cobbler is NOT recruited? Not only that, that conversation between kinetic and albert bugs me more on the xvart wagon. I know we should ignore it, but doesn't anyone else find it odd? I would not be surprised if one of their posting condition is to at times give out info somehow. I mean they need some reason other than just harassing us to post.

[Magister Ludi]

The only time I would really consider the CR's information at all useful is when they are trying to take out or damage the other recruiter. Other than that, avoid it.

[Herodotus]

@Flameaxe:
If finding the recruitee was only a matter of outguessing the CR's, then we'd get stuck in the circular reasoning and couldn't conclude anything. But we could also find the recruitees if they "make a mistake" in the sense of accidentally revealing themself as scum. Players who are new or who are lynched often are more likely to make a mistake. The CR's don't need or want to take that risk. Also, a newer player would not be able to help the CR as much in analyzing PR's and future recruitment choices. So unless we find something seriously scummy from them (including lurking), it's reasonable to count the players kinetic and Albert don't expect to play well as less suspect than those with experience. On day 1, that is. Disregard this analysis for future days.

On the other hand, it's also possible that one or both of them just used some random method to choose a name. I think if I were a CR, I'd use a weighted random selection.

Cobbler, what do you think of that? Wanna vote yourself to prove that you aren't scum?

Um, what?

@Populartajo:
Read the game. [Redacted], and [redacted].

Do you disagree with my point that we shouldn't rule anyone out as guaranteed not to have been selected?


@Yos2:
Why did Cobbler claim?

Let me last at least one night. If I'm scum the other scum will kill me anyway. From what I understand if the recruiters try to recruit an unrecruitable or another scum, the recruitment becomes a kill.

:sigh:
Yes, I'm sure they will want to waste their recruit ability on someone they know they can't recruit.

[xvart]

Ugh... apparently I didn't actually post earlier today and now don't have it.

Regarding cobbler's claim, I remember seeing it as him responding to the issue of being sure that xvart was town because cobbler was guessing xvart might be unrecruitable because they had the same role name. So I don't think much of the attacks on him over a scum-serving claim. The seed for his claiming was planted before the first votes on him. So if that was a scumplot, it was absurdly subtle.

This is a valid point, and something I need to look more into. I'm going to go back and look at the progression of Cobbler's posts on us having the same role and see how that unraveled, but I agree that it is unlikely that it was a planned elaborate setup simply because it would be too complicated this early in the game and could fall apart pretty easily if not executed perfectly. But again, I need to look at it more in detail.

I actually like Batt as the second recruit. I'm think Kinetic went after Batt and ABR after Yos, for what it's worth.

In my earlier post that never posted I Batt had pinged my recruitdar for some reason but I can't remember why. I'll try and dig it up when I'm looking at some other things.

Re: xvart wagon. Im really torn on xvart since he isnt usually suspected early days, so I dont know if his reactions are scumtells or nulltells. Xvart, could you show me some games where you have been suspected early?

Honestly, I can't remember being in a game where I was suspected early; but I'll go back through my completed games and see if I can find some where I received a decent amount of suspicion or where I was lynched.

Actually anyone from the game I guess could answer that. It'll save me the looking.

It was a time based mechanism, so whoever sent the first pm recruiting someone recruited (barring any unrecruitable, protection, etc.), as was the case with Seraphim. Both recruiters targeted him N0 and when I was recruited N1 we operated under the false assumption that the reason the recruitment failed was because he was the other recruiter.

/prodded. So soon.

Re: S1's mechanics: Recruit OR Kill, the CRs had to pick which, and couldn't do both the same night,

But the cult/mafia groups could still kill after CR death (obv not relevant for this one, CRs are stumps)

I doubt there's more scum than the two Mafia Groups. Introducing more than 3 sides in a cult game would be a headache.

--

Out of curiosity, what colours are the cults this game?

Interesting how Chrono just sort of disappears shortly after I start calling him out as being a recruit then comes back with this fluff post. I expect I'll be returning my vote here if it moves.

I'm also thinking about Succession I and if there are similar vig roles out there. The problem with the vig's is they need to shoot well to give us a chance, but we also don't want them waiting too long and falling into the mob hands. This might be a radical (possibly stupid) idea but would it be worth discussing maybe setting up a list of people to kill tonight and use all the vig bullets before the Cult can use them?

[Mr. Flay]

Fourth Vote Count of Day One:

xvart - 8 (DrippingGoofball, Cecily, Yosarian2, Seraphim, Fritzler, Nobody Special, bvoigt, ThAdmiral)
Cobblerfone - 4 (xvart, Flameaxe, Porochaz, Tanarin)
Magister Ludi - 2 (springlullaby, Battousai)
springlullaby - 2 (Herodotus, Zdenek)
Chronopie - 1 (RaudhrGarm)
Seraphim - 1 (ooba)
Yosarian2 - 1 (Magister Ludi)
Katsuki - 1 (Bunnylover)
Herodotus - 1 (populartajo)
ThAdmiral - 1 (Dry-fit)

Not Voting: 3 (Chronopie, Katsuki, Cobblerfone)

With 25 voters, it will take 13 to lynch.

@Mod: could we have prods for everyone eligible

(as opposed to just populartajo)

Prods are happening whenever people pass the 2 1/2 day mark... keeping in mind that it's a holiday weekend for most Americans (myself included).

[Fritzler]

yosa:

VOTE: Popular Tajo

I don't think I'm allowed to say why. But he's a "doctor". I'd recruit the doctor even if he weren't guranteed to be a "role-doctor".

this screams vi rather than recruited scum, agree?

Dunno, as newbie scum I would do that kind of "look I'm a newbie" too. It's a hard call to make.

except the difference here is that recruiters wouldnt go for newbies.

Yeah, the whole "scum probably wouldn't recruit newbies" wifom stuff is a very valid argument, and it's the main reason I'm not voting cobbler right now.

I'm telling you, read through his posts with the thought that cobbler is a legitimate retard. It makes his posts make SOOOO much more sense.

[springlullaby]

I'm thinking yes. I'm thinking there might be other scum than cult too. But maybe I'm wrong.

But surely they couldn't be recruitable which would cause problems.

You've got a point, the two scenarios doesn't match. And I've done the meta on him, it's possible the whole thing was just newbie stuff. Still, I'm mad at him.

[Cobblerfone]

is there a special flavor name for your unrecruitableness? (Sort of like "Visit" or "Tour the Neighborhood" in the sample role PMs.)

I don't see how that would help. (Seeing as how "Visit" and "Tour the Neighborhood" are more-or-less the same power with different names.) And I've already adressed that the flavor will hint too much at my role.

I'm reevaluting my reads. Since they've posted more I'm going to base them off content. (Since there's usually little to go by, my D-1 reads usually rely on tone. I really need to stop doing them like that.)

[bvoigt]

is there a special flavor name for your unrecruitableness? (Sort of like "Visit" or "Tour the Neighborhood" in the sample role PMs.)

I don't see how that would help. (Seeing as how "Visit" and "Tour the Neighborhood" are more-or-less the same power with different names.) And I've already adressed that the flavor will hint too much at my role.

If you do actually have a flavor name for being unrecruitable, it

is

important to me that you claim it. And the flavor argument doesn't work here...I'm not asking you for a reason, just a word or phrase. It will not hint at any other aspects of your role.

BTW, Ludi has ignored my question ~3 times.

[Bunnylover]

@Dry-Fit: Mainly its because Katsuki was a cult recruiter from a Reck game, and used lurking to win the game. I would assume Katsuki would try to do the same as a recruit.

[Flameaxe]

And I've already adressed that the flavor will hint too much at my role.

Hint too much at...the role you've already claimed?

[Yosarian2]

And I've already adressed that the flavor will hint too much at my role.

Hint too much at...the role you've already claimed?

Ever since I mentioned that the unrecruitable roles in Sucession I also had another ability as well, he's been hinting that he has a second ability that he hasn't claimed. Which, frankly, just makes me more suspicious.

[ooba]

Re-read the last couple of pages - I change my mind about cobbler but had already written down a response to Flameaxe and did not feel like deleting it ..

---

@Flameaxe: I know I'm projecting but I think it's a fair assumption to make D1.

I went to succession and read it again. Note Me=Weird replaced Seraphim only on D1. Seraphim was the choice of both recruiters N0. *

While I won't exclude anybody from being a possible recruit tomorrow (because I can see myself recruiting inexperience if most people have good-null vibes on that person on D1), I just don't see either person recruiting cobbler pre-game.

If I am wrong about this, you can rant at me postgame

---

*398: Cobbler went to look this up??
- You know I can buy cobbler claiming with not much pressure on him (like Yos calls it "a VI situation")
- But looking up Succession for something

that wasn't specifically directed at him

- Both put together makes me rethink that people might be right Cobbler scum and about CR coaching from the background

408 - "I only read up to where Seraphim got replaced out in Succession I" - him posting a possible explanation on why he went back to that game because otherwise it just looks too damn scummy
Cobbler:

"Let me last at least one night"

---

419 @Zed - "I believe Cobblerfone's claim for the reason that Herodotus pointed out."
436 @Her - See it in this post: "Regarding cobbler's claim, I remember seeing it as him responding to the issue of being sure that xvart was town because cobbler was guessing xvart might be unrecruitable because they had the same role name."
What do you think about the fact that it might be their pregame plan if any of the other teamsters get's wagoned?

---

Unvote. Vote: cobbler

[Cobblerfone]

@bvoigt: How about if I get to L-2? Why does it matter? Even if the flavor name was the same for every unrecruitable, the flavor would only be verifiable to other unrecruitables. Which would bring more unrecruitables unecessarily in the open. And I know it will be different because it is somewhat tied to my role.

Cobbler:"Let me last at least one night"

That does sound desparate. It felt like there were more people on me than there were, but I guess that's no excuse for the immaturity of that plea.

- But looking up Succession for something that wasn't specifically directed at him

I actually reread to see how Seraphim acted. (Hence why only up until he replaced out) He's been laying low, and if he's been recruited N-0 by two different people before I figured why not look it up?

Ever since I mentioned that the unrecruitable roles in Sucession I also had another ability as well, he's been hinting that he has a second ability that he hasn't claimed. Which, frankly, just makes me more suspicious.

Post 190:

It was more like me trying to not lynch a potential PR.

[Katsuki]

@Dry-Fit: Mainly its because Katsuki was a cult recruiter from a Reck game, and used lurking to win the game. I would assume Katsuki would try to do the same as a recruit.

That had a lot to do with RL circumstances rather than intended lurking...

[DrippingGoofball]

Cobbler is no recruit.

Players that don't like the xvart wagon are welcome to pile their votes on MLudi.

Let's get this show on the road.

[Herodotus]

I'm thinking yes. I'm thinking there might be other scum than cult too. But maybe I'm wrong.

But surely they couldn't be recruitable which would cause problems.

You've got a point, the two scenarios doesn't match. And I've done the meta on him, it's possible the whole thing was just newbie stuff. Still, I'm mad at him.

Could you elaborate on the "mad at him" issue here?

What do you think about the fact that it might be their pregame plan if any of the other teamsters get's wagoned?

I suppose that can't be ruled out, but for now I'm on Cobbler's side.

We haven't heard from nobody in far too long. I'm still waiting for an answer to a question I didn't ask anybody.