Mini 1178: Source Code

[tarsonisocelot]

I don't know why we shouldn't mass claim, but it may turn out to be a bad idea based on game mechanics we don't know about yet.

[tarsonisocelot]

VOTE: tarsonisocelot
for being incredibly scummy, come on you're a fox not an ocelot woman

VOTE: monk
Zombie!
Don't you know my names mostly come from KoL activation codes?

[tarsonisocelot]

Lies!

[tarsonisocelot]

Just because I was scum the last game I played with you...

Anyway, does anyone have any clue what's going on in general?

[tarsonisocelot]

vezok: notorious VI
monk and tarson: blacklisted for considering themselves VIs
earworm and jily: newbies who have yet to prove themselves

I need the power of actual players to conquer the world please help

Do you mean conquering the world like Team Rocket?

Or like finding Team Rocket?

[tarsonisocelot]

unvote, vote: monk

Hey look, he took the part about being a VI out of his name. How convenient.

Apparently he wants credibility.
Well he can't have it! So there!

I'm eagerly awaiting something to happen but I don't know what.

[tarsonisocelot]

UNVOTE: Monk I'll capitalize what I want.
VOTE: vezok

[tarsonisocelot]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: tarsonisocelot

Reason please.

[tarsonisocelot]

You're all scum but me.
Monk asking about the lynch limit seems pro-town to me. I'm uncomfortable with the idea of accidental early lynches.

[tarsonisocelot]

Parama - town
monk - town, meta reasons
tarsonisocelot - town
inHimshallibe - null
vezokpiraka - null
splitfarvle - null
earworm - scum
jilynne1991 - null/town

[tarsonisocelot]

Um, how do I be readable? Sorry, I don't understand that. Isn't a meta reason unlogical? Since it's from paast experiences and all?

monk is playing the same way he did as town in the last game I played with him. Actually, he's trolling a bit less now.
It would be illogical to ignore the past when considering the present, just as it would be illogical to rely entirely on it.

[tarsonisocelot]

L-2 is nothing in a game this small. Monk mentioned it, like he should have, but that does not make him town.

@TO: Why is Parama town?

Parama seemed to be trying to actually get something useful to happen in their posts. They feel town.
You don't.

[tarsonisocelot]

L-2 is nothing in a game this small. Monk mentioned it, like he should have, but that does not make him town.

@TO: Why is Parama town?

Parama seemed to be trying to actually get something useful to happen in their posts.

They feel town.

You don't.

This is telling me, you're using a gut feeling, sorry, but that just doesn't cut it when asked to give evidence. (Btw, I have no intention whatsoever to sound mean...sorry if I seem to be attacking you.)

It is page 2. There are very few facts at this point. Parama feels more town than you. That is my current read.

[tarsonisocelot]

...I... have nothing to say about this game. Really. I just want it to end fast, which, fortunately, it will.

If all you're going to do is sit in the corner and complain about everyone else in the game being an idiot and how much you want it to end then replace out. If you can't or won't even attempt to contribute some of your

vastly superior

resources to this game, you have no business playing it.
My initial town feeling for you was because on page 1 you seemed like you were trying to get people to contribute. Now I just see all your posts as whining.
Since you can read VIs and all, and 3 of us are on your VI list while andother two are on your stupid newb list, you should have no trouble with finding scum and explaining to us why that person is scum.
Also, explain why you have a problem with reads based on things of minimal import in RVS where we do not have anything better to evaluate players with.

Until you do so:
UNVOTE: VOTE: Parama

[tarsonisocelot]

Parama - town

I say you are scum and that is all I need to say. I'm still waiting on the competent players to arrive anywho.

That's not a reason.
I have explained why I felt you were town at that point. That reason is no longer valid, as I stated before voting for you.

That is not all you need to say. Actually make a case or call it a random vote.

[tarsonisocelot]

King of the Emps: Is there a set day length? If not, what triggers nightfall?

[tarsonisocelot]

His Highness the Emp: have our last two players even picked up their role PM's?

Yes

Then they should really get on with posting anything.

[tarsonisocelot]

Requesting Replacement

I'm not dealing with the idiots in this thread. Bye ^_^

So far as I can tell, you have been the second least valuable posting player (after vezok for obvious reasons).
You have contributed nothing but whining about others being newbie or idiots. You have not attempted to scumhunt, or to get or give any useful information or reads.
And after this we are the idiots?

I am glad you are going.

Hopefully your replacement will actually have something to say.

UNVOTE: VOTE: splitfarvle
Post please.

[tarsonisocelot]

Everyone, there are definitely things we can do today before lynching.
At this point I'd say mass claiming might not be a bad idea to get some information/testable claims into the open.
Thoughts?

Also, thank you for replacing in Hoppster.

[tarsonisocelot]

Really think we've got something here, given the superbuddying going on with tarsonisocelot reads to me as a hyperactive defense for being called out by his RL friend. I know, I've abused one rajrhcpfreak in the same manner.

I always buddy with TO, even in a game where I was modding and she was town I buddied TO, on looking back it was a stupid move it compromised me as a mod.

And when I was lynched as investigated scum last game, you were mislynched the next day. Remember buddying me is only good when you know my alignment.

People were awfully surprised by the Puppet role suddenly appearing (a puppet is a vanilla townie that uses action speech to /do things whenever tha mod tells them to, and has only flavour significance i.e. Mod message:"Dance", next post of puppet begins with /dances).

Anyway, I'm a dayvig. Vezok should start posting useful things or we'll get to see what happens when I shoot the gun I found lying around in my compartment.

[tarsonisocelot]

@TO: I DON'T CARE IF YOU DAY VIG ME. YOU'RE STILL AN IDIOT AND I COULDN'T CARE LESS. IN A GAME WHERE NOBODY DIES WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK WILL GET SCARRED FROM BEING VIGGED?

Vent away. I don't care if/how much you swear.

The rules such as we know them state that "nobody dies", they say nothing about whether you flip and the day timer is reset, or you get changed into a Stump, or any other of the myriad ways in which you could be affected other than death. This is an empking game based on the film Source Code. Either of those things should indicate a high chance of mind-fuckery, and the Source Code theme would imply weirdness in relation to dying/staying dead even if the rules didn't state that nobody "dies".

I'm guessing from your curiosity about the mechanics and not caring whether you live or not that you're an innocent bystander.

We'll find out what a gun can do other than make someone dead when I pick some who seems scummy.

[tarsonisocelot]

Specifically, I was just told that I found a gun on my seat and that I may attempt to kill any player with it while it is daytime, with the kill taking place when I send it in, not when it is posted in the thread. My previous role was vanilla Bystander. I have not been given any new titles or win conditions. I am now a vanilla Bystander that can shoot people in daytime. I'm interpreting that as Dayvig
I was not told where the gun came from.

I'm not currently planning on shooting vezok at present. I have a VT read on them.

I want a lynch. They're usually the better option and I've yet to see any indication that they're not the better option tonight.

[tarsonisocelot]

the kill taking place when I send it in

Do you mean via PM?

Is it multiple use (the gun)?

Yes via PM, it certainly implied multiple use, but the unknown unknowns here could change that.

[tarsonisocelot]

Yes, I plan on using it on D1. It's the only way to know that I'll get to try to use it.

[tarsonisocelot]

King of the Emps has now confirmed it is one-shot.

[tarsonisocelot]

Anyone object to me vig-ing Hoppster? (Including Hoppster, please tell me why shooting you would be bad.)

Also, I want a D1 lynch.

[tarsonisocelot]

Anyone object to me vig-ing Hoppster? (Including Hoppster, please tell me why shooting you would be bad.)

Umm wat.

Do you have any reasons you want to shoot me for? I can't really defend myself if you make no reasons why you want to shoot me.

It would probably be bad because I assume we need to shoot the people with anti-town win conditions in order to win. I don't understand what you're expecting me to say.

I don't know, maybe we need to shoot innocent people to win. I have no idea. It could be good or bad.

Param was not obvtown and neither are you.

You've focused rather a lot on the possibility that things which do not usually help the town at all might do so in this case because of "weird mechanics" without providing any specifics of situations where these outcomes might occur.
No Lynch is rarely a good option on D1. Without being presented with a compelling argument related to the specific set up, I will not consider it. You have brought it up "to gauge opinion" more than once.

This defence is another example:

maybe we need to shoot innocent people to win.

And maybe we should try to avoid lynching mafia because then an NPC God might come in and smite them for us.


If you have any concrete reason to suspect that either a no-lynch or shooting town will help, then explain it.

[tarsonisocelot]

My horsey is wondering what you think of worm ears.

Woodchipper material imo.

Nothing compelling at ALL.

I hope you shot vezok, tarsonisocelot.

vote: earworm

I'm about to shoot Hoppster.
It says so a few posts above yours.
I'm not shooting vezok unless they begin to seem scummy rather than bad-town.
What do you think about that?

UNVOTE: VOTE: inHimshallibe

[tarsonisocelot]

Panama was incredibly obvtown imo, can't help it that Hoppster isn't as completely obvious.

Explain the obvtown read.

[tarsonisocelot]

Why the fuck are you going to shoot Hoppster?!? That slot is soooooooooooooooooooooooo town.

(I do like these inhim votes though)

Making a note of this now - this is a good example of the sort of post I seem to remember giving me town vibes (although I seem to have forgotten which other ones).

UNVOTE: earworm

You do need to address this though (plus the whole deal of a 3-vote bandwagon on you within 5 posts).


And nao, INCOMINGZ WALLZ

Spoiler: idiot alarm going off

Param was not obvtown

idiot alarm going off

Yes he was (granted, I have confirmation bias, but I was loosely following this game before I replaced in).

No Lynch is rarely a good option on D1.

idiot alarm going off

This game is not like normal games; what applies to them doesn't necessarily apply here. The clue is in the fact that "No players will be removed (lest due to modkill) from the game before the game is finished."

Without being presented with a compelling argument related to the specific set up, I will not consider it.

idiot alarm going off

You give me a compelling argument related to the specific set up to lynch or shoot.

You have brought it up "to gauge opinion" more than once.

idiot alarm going off

That's right, because discussing things is scummy. Well done you. Have a gold sticker.

If you have any concrete reason to suspect that either a no-lynch or shooting town will help, then explain it.

idiot alarm going off

Of course I don't. It's speculation about a weird setup. Do you have any concrete reason to suspect that either a lynch or shooting the anti-town player will help?

I'm about to shoot Hoppster.

idiot alarm going off

You seem to believe that you need to shoot anti-town players, yet you haven't given any reasons for me being anti-town, only (bad) reasons for me being useless.

tl;dr - tarsonisocelot has idiotic reasons for wanting to shoot me.

VOTE: tarsonisocelot

Spoiler: reasoningz

All your 'attacks' on me are making, huge, HUGE assumptions.

Assumptions which are simply not permitted by a town win-con.

You obviously* don't have one; here's the one in the OP quoted for your benefit:

You win with the town.

It is

OBVIOUSLY* OBVIOUSLY* OBVIOUSLY*

written to be purposely vague. Empking is a very competent moderator, and it is either phrased like that because town wins in some obscure manner or perhaps simply to mind-fuck us all. It would not be written like that by 'accident' if we had the usual "eliminate all anti-town parties / threats to the town" win-con.

You can look at other games Empking has modded (or is modding) to see that he usually gives very clear win-cons, and ours are intentionally vague this game is a super-obvious conclusion.

You are just as obviously* the informed minority here.

Looking through your ISO, it's clear you intented to start the game off with "hurr durr I know just as little as the rest of you", but now you're completely contradicting your early game 'ignorance' (and thus revealing yourself as the informed minority) by insisting that my open-mindedness is deserving of a shot.

When I asked about No Lynches, the people who said that they wanted a lynch answered with a town answer - they wanted the information from lynching. Which, although we have no way to know for sure lynches will give us information, is fair enough.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

We have to see what lynching does.

Lynch me or whoever. Just lynch.

town

No Lynch is silly imo. There's no way to know for sure, but given the theme it seems quite likely we will have to use each Day's information to help us on the next try.

town

I'm against No Lynching in general outside of MYLO. This game in particular, which ends after three game days no matter what and has unknown mechanics, seems to require us to lynch.

town

Also, I'm against a no lynch. I don't really see how that would help in any way, shape, or form.

Eh, leaning-town. Could be scum.

I am against No Lynching, especially on the first day. It's stupid and it helps us in absolutely no way.

Probably sheeping newb-town, but again

could

be scum.

I want a lynch. They're usually the better option and I've yet to see any indication that they're not the better option tonight.

SCUMMMMMMM


town response - WE NEED MOAR INFORMATIONZ FROM TEH LYNCHES
probtown response - NO LYNCH WILL NOT HELP UZ (implying no information gained from No Lynch)

scum response - LYNCH BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE USUALLY DO

tl;dr - tarsonisocelot is playing like the informed minority.

Spoiler: *

OBVIOUSLY

No.
I will place the majority of my response to this and a breakdown of your reasoning here in a separate post later today but just to start:

I want a lynch. They're usually the better option and I've yet to see any indication that they're not the better option tonight.

SCUMMMMMMM
scum response - LYNCH BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE USUALLY DO

tl;dr - tarsonisocelot is playing like the informed minority.

The key part you missed out in "paraphrasing" my reasoning for a lynch was:

I've yet to see any indication that they're not the better option tonight.

This was the

key

element of the reasoning for a lynch. Ignoring it invalidates your entire evaluation of this post.

Your view on it here and the rest of your posts indicate a flaw in your reasoning: You assume that because this is not a normal game that we should start with a blank slate in regards to our expectations, when our point of origin is actually a mini normal. The best, most efficient way to construct a working model of this game is to establish where there are differences between this game and a normal game, not to attempt to construct all rules from first principles. I will explain how and why in detail in my upcoming post.

[tarsonisocelot]

Why the fuck are you going to shoot Hoppster?!? That slot is soooooooooooooooooooooooo town.

(I do like these inhim votes though)

It is not soooooooooooooooooooooooo town.

And do you actually believe inhim is scum? Or is this just because you don't want to be lynched instead?

[tarsonisocelot]

Can someone please explain the point of cursing to me? Since, there's obviously something makes it so great everyone has to do it all the time, that I'm not understanding. =_= (Sorry for the contentless post, I just had to vent.)

You've cursed at people before. Why did you do it?

[tarsonisocelot]

TO, have you shot anyone yet? The longer you stall, the more you become suspect imo. BTW SHOOT VEZOK.

jilynne1991, you claim to be 13 and your screenname has 1991 in it, forgive me for disbelieving said claim and how it pertains to your play (whether it is cursing, cautiousness, whatever)

Elli, monk has a claim out there that rings true imo. He's probably just badtown.

I haven't yet. And I don't care whether that makes you suspect me.

Hoppster, the only reason I haven't shot you is because I did have a town read on Parama. Your reasoning is terrible and detrimental to town.

We have a limited amount of time to work out enough of what's going on and you running around screaming "Maybe there's a cult!", "What if there's a Jester?",

"Maybe the town wins if we kill the pro-town people"

does nothing to help and everything to hinder. If this was a larger, longer lasting game it would be worth looking into some of those possibilities but in this situation all that will do is add confusion. Because we only have a small amount of time, we have to maximise our use of it.

The first thing you do when attempting to solve a problem that you do not have the means to explicitly solve is to apporximate it as something you can solve. In this case, that is a mini normal game. This involves considering what the best course of action would be in a mini normal at this point, then parameterising it with any set-up knowledge specific to this game. So rather than saying "This is a weird set-up, so maybe no lynch and shooting town are good things for town!", we ask "Are there any known factors in this game that would make not lynching more favourable than lynching?". In this way we can keep our focus as a town and make best use of any information that comes to light.

You're confusing being informed and not freaking out.



My current set-up guesses informed by flavour:

There are no cults or jesters. There is at least one terrorist. Deaths get reset each night. There are no night kills. If we fail to find the terrorist(s) by the end of three days and deal with them the train we're on blows up.

These are guesses. If anyone knows anything to contradict or support anything in this telling us would be helpful to say the least.
Any or none of this being true doesn't change my belief that shooting at anti-town/ lynching is good.

[tarsonisocelot]

Hoppster, the only reason I haven't shot you is because I did have a town read on Parama.

wat

Spoiler: tarsonisocelot's last 2 posts about Parama (attacking him)

...I... have nothing to say about this game. Really. I just want it to end fast, which, fortunately, it will.

If all you're going to do is sit in the corner and complain about everyone else in the game being an idiot and how much you want it to end then replace out. If you can't or won't even attempt to contribute some of your

vastly superior

resources to this game, you have no business playing it.
My initial town feeling for you was because on page 1 you seemed like you were trying to get people to contribute. Now I just see all your posts as whining.
Since you can read VIs and all, and 3 of us are on your VI list while andother two are on your stupid newb list, you should have no trouble with finding scum and explaining to us why that person is scum.
Also, explain why you have a problem with reads based on things of minimal import in RVS where we do not have anything better to evaluate players with.

Until you do so:
UNVOTE: VOTE: Parama

Parama - town

I say you are scum and that is all I need to say. I'm still waiting on the competent players to arrive anywho.

That's not a reason.
I have explained why I felt you were town at that point. That reason is no longer valid, as I stated before voting for you.

That is not all you need to say. Actually make a case or call it a random vote.

Doesn't look like you had a town read to me.

Thanks for claiming scum, though.

Unless of course you mean that you haven't shot me because you had a town read on Parama before you got the scum-read detailed above. In which case, thanks for claiming idiot.

MOAR VOTES THIS WAY, PEOPLE

Parama then replaced out, which was pro-town given their attitude towards the game.

[tarsonisocelot]

Drat. I was really hoping for a flip.

[tarsonisocelot]

I would like to hear a reason for the shot, even if I approve of it.

He asked me to. Also, his posts have mainly revolved around giving "strong" town reads on vezok and Parama/Hoppster.

I wasn't sure what would happen when I shot, so I didn't want to shoot at anyone being particularly useful.

Earworm was the person in the scummy and not very useful category annoying me most at the time.

[tarsonisocelot]

UNVOTE: inHimVOTE: vezok
I don't like voting for anyone who seems to want to get lynched, but we need the information on what a lynch does.

[tarsonisocelot]

Earwormscum is believable. I've seen people with odd roles flail around like Jily is now so changing her story, while it's not good, is not a definite scumtell.

Jily: We should not lynch earworm today. Today is not for ending the game, it is for gaining the information that will let us win. Lynching earworm today will not give us new information.

If there's someone else getting the flips as well they should claim.

I also think that vezok, despite their general posting style is obvtown and believe that they are unlikely to use the gun in a stupid way.

[tarsonisocelot]

Anyone has any problem if I shoot inhim ?

I'd like to hear from him first. See how he reacts.

[tarsonisocelot]

WHO GAVE THE GUN TO VEZOK?!? TO?!? HOPPSTER?!? ELLIBERETH?!? GAH!!! VOTE: TARSONISOCELOT

Wasn't me. I'm back to being a bystander. Also why the ALLCAPSSCREAMINGANDVOTING, MONK?

vezok

Can't give the gun to yourself.

monk

Has said he can't

TO

bystander
ellibereth

earworm

- Id like to believe that scum wouldn't get given the gun, and if my gut feeling and Jily's claim are right then that's earworm.
Hoppy

inHim

claiming not to know where the gun came from today

Jily

If claim is true, it would probably not have been her giving out the gun

Jily: Why is inHim cleared?

Yesterday, I shot someone who seemed scummy.
Also, wild stab at weird things lurking in the dark recesses of a sleep-deprived mind that I should have killed in RVS: VOTE: Empking

If this vote doesn't stand then I'll pick someone else after the weekend.

[tarsonisocelot]

I don't have a gun.

Who said I have a gun?

Anyone has any problem if I shoot inhim ?

[tarsonisocelot]

TO, did you get a Role PM from Empking at the beginning of day today?

Nope. Did you?

Also I support the idea of a mass claim but feel the one to suggest it should claim first.

[tarsonisocelot]

Nope. Did you?

Also I support the idea of a mass claim but feel the one to suggest it should claim first.

No, I did not.

How many PMs have you sent to Empking today, and how many did you send yesterday (if any at all)?


(We can decide who starts once everybody agrees to do it first.)

Yesterday there was a PM about getting the gun and then I got one later saying it was one use.
I have had no contact with the mod outside of trying to vote for them today.

[tarsonisocelot]

I'm not scum. I'm a bystander who happened to find a gun on my seat yesterday after monk claims to have left it there. I have not found a gun on my seat today.
The logic you're applying to me applies equally well to monk.
VOTE: monk

[tarsonisocelot]

VOTE: earworm

We're all doomed to repeat this day forever because it has already happened and we're all dead anyway, so I'm going to dance around cackling for the last 8 minutes of my life for eternity.

Batman vote: Jily

Vig vote: inHim, monk

SK votes: Hoppster, vezok

[tarsonisocelot]

GG all.

I don't think Town had too much of a chance without knowing they had to kill a specific member of the mafia. But it was fun running Decepticon-style screens with earworm for Elli. I don't think he was ever considered to be killed.

This or having the gun as multishot.
Given that there were three scum, you needed to get all town players on the wagon of the terrorist which is tricky enough when you know what you're doing.