Mini 1181 - Buffy Mafia

[MagnaofIllusion]

Now hold on here .... that's a very odd Confirmation process

/confirm

[MagnaofIllusion]

A capital Idea.

/confirm

ALSO, BE WARNED THAT THIS GAME IS NOW A BASTARD MOD NO MATTER WHAT THE MOD SAYS.

Whut? Are you calling smargaret a Bastard?

My delicate sensabilities can't take such strong language ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

The amount of people who don't read their Role-PMs or the rules carefully makes me a Sad Panda ... er BTVS doesn't have Pandas ... make that a Sad something or other ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Edmund.angles

Anyone with punctuation in their name is probably an associate of the Mayor with his preference for diction and proper grammar.

@Locke, farside and Dekes

- Willing to form an in-game Scooby Gang with me?

[MagnaofIllusion]

What, I don't get an invite?

Well then~

VOTE: MoI

</3

You don't get an invite based on giving Parama a pass in AGM's game. Sorry, you lost my faith for a bit right there.

[MagnaofIllusion]

He didn't hurt the town, besides killing me. I died for my sins.

COINCIDENTALLY, without Parama selling me a BP, I would have died D2.

As it was, I died D3.

His lynch Day 1 right after he was revealed to be 3rd Party would have meant a non-Town player died well before either Mafia kill was charged.

But in the end it's not about specific outcomes. It's about judgement. I don't trust yours as much after you were willing to let him off the hook since he could sell you neat Toys.

Sorry if that chaps your thighs but them's my feelings.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You want me to trust you and Locke after American Gods? Am I insane?

You’ve been around long enough to know alignment in one game isn’t dependant at all on another. That said even if it was true wouldn’t it be preferable to have both of us in a Voting Block with yourself and Dekes to help you assess our alignment?

--

And what are these cliquey Scooby Gangs about?

Scum-dar Minor ping …

--

I'll Scooby with you, MoI. But we're voting Toast, on account of him being scum.

If he’s scum for ignoring that we’ve already transitioned into Real Game ™ then I am with you.

UNVOTE: Edmund
VOTE: Toasty

What are your thoughts on Llamamarble so far Locke?

What do you think of Jason doing the same thing as Toasty in 54?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I have never watched, read or heard that much about Buffy however couldn't pass up on this playerlist therefore if anyone can suggest a particular source, season or medium in which I could find out about relevant information I'd greatly appreciate it.

The Buffy Wiki is your friend.

But you

NEED

to watch this show. Start renting / buying the Seasons. Well worth it!!!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't actually know if scum use the "X is attacking my credibility" logic more; I just think it's nonuseful. And MOI's wagon was bigger.

So you questioned why anyone had a Town-read on LLD for incorrectly saying I was ‘scum’ for undermining her but when she ignored that aspect of your suspicion you back off (with the only reason is that 'you don't know if scum would do that') and vote me because I had a bigger wagon?

Just wanting to check to see if I have that right.

--

Not getting why MOI has gone to legit suspicious in the eyes of Lady Lambdadelta, it seems like she is trying to lock onto things to back up her RVS vote IMO...

Could be tempted to see what she said as a scumslip about moving from a townblock....it is something I will be keeping my eye on in the future.

unvote
vote:Lady Lambdadelta

I think she is soulless

Um, whut?

You provide several parts of her actions thus-far that you see as not Town (my interpretation of the above) including her making her vote ‘real’ and what you call a possible scum-slip. Which you say you will be “watching her” for.

Then you vote her and include some sort of RVS fluff as support?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I found MOI mildly scummy for his proposed alliance, then LLD posted ewwbadlogic & her 'town bloc' possibleslip.
She explained herself okay and MOI's wagon seemed bigger / more productive and I figured if LLD was scum MOI was probably scum too as badlogicked spats feel bussy.

Yeah, get no Town vibes from this post at all –

1. Please provide reasoning you find proposing an alliance scummy.
2. You’ve still not explained how she explained her ewwbadlogic in an okay fashion. Please point to where that happened.

Jason is Angelus and fakeclaimed Angel in 58.

Aside from the fact that 58 was fluffy why is the conclusion that his “LLD is soulless” means he was claiming Angel / Angelus?

If anything I can any number of characters spinning off that bit (Jenny Calendar for example).

--

1)Hadn't read yet and 2)There was nothing I found worth commenting on

Which is it? These are two contradictory phrases. You couldn’t possibly have found anything worth commenting on if you hadn’t read.

Important: My role seems to be some type of Miller (demon alligned with town). It is to my knowledge that its best to claim such things early.

1. Why didn’t you claim this in your first post before you had caught any suspicion?
2. I think you’d better name claim your role (and by this I simply mean your role name itself, nothing else besides that) in your next post.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I did not claim in the first post because I was asking the mod for clarification. She couldn't say much out of fear that it would wreck the setup.

Um … I claim bullshit. Why would it wreck the set-up to claim Miller in your first post but not in the second or third? Because that's exactly what happened.

We’ve got a live on here …

The thought has crossed my mind that there may be a lyncher, but fine. I'm Spike

Spike isn’t a Demon, he’s a Vampire. Significant difference in the Buffyverse (although Vampires were originally born out of demons … but that’s a digression).

In any event saying outright that Spike wouldn’t be a ‘Demonic Townie’ would be outguessing the mod. So I’m not going to include that in my assessment. Also I’m going to shelve the “Lyncher on a Miller” topic for possibly down the line.

I think voting you simply for your bad Miller claim and avoidance of the LLD / MoI dust-up is good enough.

More Toasty votes would be greatly appreciated!

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI: What do you think of Jason's logic in voting me, and his fencesitting?

I thought it would have been clear from 63 where I questioned him about that very fact that it is something I find suspicious.

What are your thoughts on Toasty since we are trading inquiries?

[MagnaofIllusion]

...
Uh, I'm not in agreement that his miller claim makes him look bad. I'm calling that null.

Normally I'd be in agreement. I don't think a Miller claim in the second post is inherently bad. When said person has come under fire I think it adds some scumminess to said claim.

What really makes me think it is fake is Toasty's answer when I questioned him.

"I couldn't post it based on the GM because it would break the set-up?"

That answer doesn't make any sense. If Smarg banned him from claiming Miller to protect the set-up it would extend game-wide, not be limited to Toasty's first post.

The answer has to be a lie. And a truthfully claiming Miller would have no reason to invent a convoluted reason why he didn't claim in his first post when he could just say "Oops, forgot". That's a much more believale response.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@LLD

– I’ve noticed you’ve completely dropped your “MoI is scum undermining me” drivel from earlier. I’d like you to specifically clarify – was that scum play in your mind or not.

Llama’s near obsession with hunting Angel makes me almost think he is a Lyncher of some sort.

@Llama

– I have two requests for you at 68 that you need to address. Please do so. Thank you.

I agree that Acronach’s hop onto Toasty was bad. I find it especially suspect considering it came right after Llama had tied the Jason and Toasty wagons up. Possible Jason – Acro relationship noted.

--

I would like to contradict MoI on the Spike thing. Vampires are either a species of demon or demon-human hybrid in Buffyverse depending on who you ask.
You could certainly call them "demonic".

Vampires in the Buffyverse are a specific offshoot of demons from the old times – when the Demons went away they remained as they had co-mingled with humanity. They are a significantly different type of creature than demons and thus their own ‘type’. This is all coming from my memory of the Episode where Buffy goes to meet the “First Watchers” to gain power to fight against the Uber-Vamps in Season 7, BTW.

That said did you note that I specifically DIDN’T say Toasty’s Miller claim was bad due to being a Demonic Townie and that it was reasonably Mod possible? Curious about that.

--

What pings you about this?

You’ve noted that I’ve offered to join a voting block with three other players and specifically used ‘cliquey’ which has negative connotations when describing said block. On a gut level I noted that word choice so it made an ever so slight ping to my scum-dar.

Not as significant as Llama’s directly calling forming said block scummy, but of note to me non-the-less.

As for my comments about the alliance thing. My take is that several of these players know each other, have played together, and were playing around. Now, if I really think there is some sort of serious alliance going on I will definitely take note and be very interested.

Elaborate.

--

Why me and not MissJJ, Jason, or iamausername?

Because Locke, who has agreed to be in a voting block, suggested you first.

Did you not notice that I also suspect Jason and MissJJ to some degree based on my posting?

I have to go look at Iam based on this comment.

Where are you getting this? I asked her if I was indeed a miller, not if claiming such would get me banned. Her response was that I was a demon alligned with town. Hence, it leads me to believe that my role is different than a Vanilla townie, and the role PM points to miller.

Here is the post that you made –

I did not claim in the first post because I was asking the mod for clarification. She couldn't say much out of fear that it would wreck the setup.

I read this as you saying that she didn’t want you to claim based on ruining the set-up, not that you were asking for clarification of Miller status.

That being said on review it does look like my initial read was a mis-read. Since the bulk of my suspicion on Toasty is based on that mis-read ..

UNVOTE: Toasty

--

VOTE: Jason

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI you're still using the voting block outside of RVS? That's not scummy... not scummy at all [/sarcasm]

Explain in detail why it is scummy. I’d like to know.

--

MoI, your speculation over Llama potentially being a lyncher is illogical. For him to be a lyncher he would initally have to work out who Angel is and then proceed to get them lynched a near impossible task given that I don't see a name mass-claim being expected in this setup.

1. It’s just a gut feeling I had. Don’t make too much of it.
2. Read Llama’s ISO and then tell me how illogical it is. He mentions Jason as scummy and a partner to Toast in ISO 4. In ISO 7 he explicitly mentions he thought Jason claimed Angel. He votes him at ISO 8 and continues to push the concept that Angel Town is the fake-claim of Angelus – Scum. Not completely out of the question. I admit its unlikely but I've nailed Lynchers before on gut reads.
3. Why would a mass name-claim not be a possibility?

--

Maybe watch was wrong word, but right now I am suspicious enough to make a vote and I will be looking out to see her interactions with others so as to get a read on who she is distancing/buddying with.

Were you ‘not suspicious enough’ when you originally voted for LLD? This post seems to indicate you were not and I want to be clear on the issue.

--

Asspulling might set in down the road if I felt it was important to lynch a specific player and they weren't actually scummy enough.

Enlighten me what ‘asspulling’ means. I’m reading this as saying you’d be more than willing to resort to heavy levels of rhetoric to assure a lynch you felt was important if it wasn’t happening on its own merits. Is this a correct assessment?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Meh if I drew a lyncher in a theme game I think I would just claim 1shotdaycop at some point with a guilty on the guy I was supposed to lynch.

Lost Season 1 says that's not a very effective tactic ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI:

The reason for my vote and comments was two fold. One was because I didn't like being undermined like that, and it was makin' me rage kitteh :X .

The other was reaction testing. I was bored of this RVS "Scooby Gang" bullshit. I wanted to create a polarizing effect and see where people landed.

Jason's response to our spat made my scumdar go PING!, so I voted him.

Is this reasonable enough to you? Do you want me to elaborate further?

Nope, that's more or less exactly what I expected you were doing but wanted confirmation to help bolster my read.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Not going to play outguess the mod on the 'Demonic Townie' front. Acronach and Edmund also not looking good now, Acronach for that miller vote hop and Edmund for overselling his Llamarble case. Liking LLD a lot.

Overall I’m agreeing with your general reads here. I’m wary to some degree about Llama but that may be playstyle related. If I had to choose a second target currently between Acro and Edmund I’d choose Edmund myself for his focus on the wrong areas of my Miller concern and his ‘case’ on Llama (which I thought was forced).

--

1. Fair enough. Though if you have a gut feeling that Llarmable is lyncher with Jason as his target why vote Jason?

Because I have gut feeling it is possible doesn’t make it probable. Even if it is a Lyncher on a Scum target certainly isn’t unusual (see the already linked Lost Season 1 for that). And my read on Jason currently is scum so I’m not going to worry too much about the lyncher possibilities.

3. I never mentioned that it wasn't a possibility just that I don't believe it's expected in this setup. At the moment I believe the risks of a mass name-claim outweight the possible benefits though.

Fair enough reasoning. I honestly don’t see any tangible benefits to Town anyway as the Buffyverse has enough source material I’d be willing to be scum have fully provided fake-claims. Either that or Smarg is a smart cookie and garbled the traditional flavors when determining Mafia.

--

first of all: 3-4 people, just about the right size of a maf team. if it was a maf team, it would be a good excuse to wagon on someone without seeming scummy. the only downside is that if it was a maf team, it would be too easy to lynch them all, which leads me to believe that 1 of the maf might've stayed out just in case.

overall, a lot of scum motivation here.

Sure, you can invent some wild scum motivation for any situation. The heart of my question is this – is the action more likely to come from scum than Town? If the answer is No it’s not a valid scum-tell (this is the Vollkan principle which I happen to ascribe to).

@Acro

– who are Toasty’s partners if he is scum.

--

From what I am reading, it seems that voting blocks or alliances are actually used? It's foreign to me. If I thought people were seriously doing this, I would want to know the motivation behind it. It would seem too obvious for the whole alliance to be scum but could possibly be a cover to hide behind for at least one or two scum.

Yes, they are used from time to time. The premise of the block works as such – you gather a group of people you think you will be able to work harmoniously with. The group discusses issues and votes as a group.

The Town advantage to doing this is as such –

1. If all members are Town you have a group dynamic in place that is very beneficial to covering blind-spots and preventing Tunneling or other negative Town behaviors.
2. If a member is Scum they are forced to work with multiple Townies and keep their votes in line. It handcuffs Scum in the group.

The only time I’ve seen it explode is when a three person group was formed with two scum.

--

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOD - I'll be V/LA from 3pm EST today until Wednesday for an actual vacation. I will have likely only have very limited phone access until then.

--

@Dekes

– Where the hell are you? Get in here and let Locke and I know if you are willing to join a three-way voting block. And then provide some content, stat!

--

Duh. Doesn't mean I trust you. Besides if you are town voting you and getting you to open up is like a gift. I get great results and find scum better.

Um, whut? You voting me isn’t going to change my play one iota, especially when it is a fluff RVS vote.

--

MoI, what do you think of Farside not actually having a scum read on me?

I don’t know what to make of farside currently. Gut says possibly scum. I understand you guys have a history where she always suspects you. American Gods Mafia would I think reinforce that (and she references this herself in her first post) since she didn’t suspect you there and you were scum.

Yet she gives you a Null read while stating you have a lack of content. That doesn't seem to connect logically to me.

121

strikes me as not quite right. Ostensibly it is a catch-up post that establishes her reads. Makes sense since the thread is only 120 posts long when she makes hers. But let’s examine the elements of the post –

1. Fluff indicating sadness that MissJJ isn’t a Buffy watcher. First it serves no scum-hunting purpose. Second MissJJ clearly is with her “Kitty Fantastico” reference to me earlier.
2. Response to me on not joining the voting block – reasonable in a catch-up.
3. Questions Jason’s post about LLD being soulless. Mutliple people have already gone this route and Jason has responded to some degree. An actual Town catch-up I would think would reference the later interactions.
4. Questions Llama on some issues that have been covered to varying degrees later in thread. Again, I would think we would see more comments about later actions.
5. Clarifies the whole Toasty issue when I’ve already come to said conclusion in thread. Why keep it in as it is completely superfluous at this stage?
6. Question to Edmund that is similar to other thoughts but still unanswered by Edmund. Solid scum-hunting and up to date, IMO.
7. Town / scum list – I don’t like it from the standpoint that it is ostensibly an up to date suspicions list but significant posts she highlight (shown above) were out of date material.

Your thoughts Locke?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I really don't see how I can be accused of fence sitting when I actually made a vote and took a stance, thats pretty weak i say, but anyway, its L-2 and I am off for the weekend (will try n check in as much as possible) But yes, I am Angel... I am the town rolecop.

Town Rolecop.

In a game with a claimed Miller.

I need to mull what sort of devious GM Smarg would be.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The first person who can tell me what about 133 stinks of scum earns an imaginary cookie.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Locke

- I'd like to hear your thoughts about the swift end to Day 1 and who you would like the vote-block to consider today.

@Dekes

- I'll be responding to the posts that happened after I went V/LA shortly but wanted to ask a question - Do you still want to be in the block?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOD – I’ll be V/LA from today at 4pm EST until Monday for my usual weekend family duties. I may have time to post but my access with at best be erratic and is not predictable.

General Thoughts

– Jason’s Angel as Cop fake-claim more or less assures me that Angel isn’t in the game so any Llama as Lynch gut twinges I had I’ve completely dismissed for good.

--

For those who wanted to claim the Cookie I offered at 135 what was absolutely scummy about MissJJ’s 133 were as follows –

1. Fence sitting on Jason. Read everything after the part regarding Acro and Edmund being scummy. She says all of the following about Jason

A. She understands why Llama and others are voting for him. (Agree with Lynch)
B. He plays scummy as Town, but I do think a Jason wagon could be best. (Disagree but Agree with Lynch.)
C. His claim is premature and he could have done more to defend himself. (Agree with Lynch)
D. I don’t like him at L-1 in case he’s telling the truth. (Testing the waters to see if claim has legs to prevent lynch, Disagree with Lynch)

This is a massive fence sitting position, IMO.

2. The last part (which several people commented on) looks very much like Role-Fishing via prompting a Counterclaim.

--

@Jason: Why on earth did you claim so early, shouldn't you protect your PM a bit? - especially since your a PR.

Dislike this very much on a gut level.

Guess that's twilight then. I suggest people keep all suspicions, comments and ideas to themselves until 'tomorrow'.

Please elaborate on why you think this was a good idea.

And

Twilight is Angel

so I don't think he's in the game either. /off Season 8 Comic Knowledge

--

However, I don't think, I've ever seen you do it, MoI. Any reason why you started now?

I’ve never had the chance to participate in a Voting Block before (the times it has been offered I’ve declined because I was scum or didn’t trust the person who was offering it at all). Looking at this game’s roster I figured I could work with three of you and wanted to see how it went.

Going through jason's ISO, there really is only the craptastic attack on Lady L.

That was the only thing you found scummy in his ISO?

--

*facepalm* This isn't a defense, its an attack. For someone who seems so sure about his scumreads, Llamarble has been awfully wishy-washy. That amount of votes over the span of just a few pages is unordinary and worth pointing out. Idk where your getting this defending thing from.

Your original statement said the following – “Also, tell me, does someone who KNOWS WHO SCUM IS vote hop to 5 different people in a span of 9 posts, all with little or no explanation?”

That reads, without your elaboration, as you are trying to assert that Llama is part of the uniformed majority. I can see where the confusion occurs.

Do you think Llama makes a credible partner for Jason given his early interest and pressure on Jason?

--

Is anyone else under the impression that there is a second faction in this game who is trying to open hellmouth gate?

The lack of any Nightkills makes me lean very much to no but my Win Con does leave the possibility open.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Did anyone else receive an abnormal PM informing you that the game was open?

At this stage I would suggest no-one answer this.

Toasty

- please describe abnormal before anyone else responds.

[MagnaofIllusion]

My head is throbbing but I am unaware how it got that way.

I don't think this is all that useful a line of discussion at this point. I suggest it be tabled.

Also Toasty please disregard the last post by Acro for those reasons.

[MagnaofIllusion]

...docsave?

Stop pointlessly speculating. It's not Pro-Town in any way at this juncture to go leaping at wild theories.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOI about suggesting that I claimed/fakeclaimed Twilight:
Twilight is the common term for the time between lynch and night, it also happens to be the Big Bad of season eigth.
Do you seriously suggest that scum-me would crumb a claim/fakeclaim as a Big Bad?

Of course not. That whole bit was a simply a little Buffyverse knowledge I threw in. Your fun meter detector is malfunctioning

[MagnaofIllusion]

-twitch- @ MoI

I want to hear a full description of the message you got...

Explain why. Please.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Locke:

I'm still not good enough to be in the voting block hmm?

Oh, and I want Dekes dead In The next 2 pages.

Actually now that Dekes has been outed as Scum I'd be happy to invite you in as the next member if Locke has no objections.

But can we give the thread at least 48 hours before Power lynching Dekes. I'd like to get Looker to actually post something before the Day ends.

@EVERYONE - Dekes is at L-1 and is the lynch today. Anyone who hammers him before Looker gets a post containing game reads in and before I can make some comments this weekend is going to be assumed scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't have much time tonight -

Dekes is acting very much like caught scum Dekes from [REDACTED] and also showing signs of other 'caught scum' tells similar to a scum I busted in Superhero Mafia.

Also iEthos's claim confirms some thoughts I had about their Jason reaction from Day 1. I feel pretty good about the claim.

I also think, based on the Mod's manner of flipping players, that at most we have a Serial Killer running around with the Mafia. It could be wrong (I was in Superhero Mafia based on the Mod's flips, but that was a Large game) but I'm doubting it.

@MOD - Could you please drop the role information from flipped players into the first post? Thank you kindly!!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

BAH!!!!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Congrats Town ... I think overall Town did a great job of finding scum Day one. Scum getting really unlucky Night 1 (losing a kill to a questionable choice and getting the RB scanned) pretty much put the game away then. All that was left was determining who long it took.

Ethos (Regfan / Slaxx) was clearly the MVP with insanely accurate scans. I suspected Regfan was a Cop of some sorts with his reaction to Jason's claim and thus thought I would try tracking those on the fringes. Iam's hammer was suspect enough that I chose to Track him over Farside N1 due to meta on Farside's replace out.

Night 2 with Dekes's odd flip I had some screwball theory that Miss JJ was a Serial Killer that the scum had found overnight. Turns out it was just paranoia anyway.

Good modding Smarg - word of advice : when building a set-up never assume Miller are NOT going to immediately claim. Too much an MS standard now.

Locke I loved working with you in a voting block. We definately should do it again.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Still ignoring me, eh MoI? ;_;

Um, you were a Part of the Town, right?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I meant about the voting block~

Well we never got to really work together in the block since I died before the three of us could put our heads together. Meh, not something I really thought too much about after I got killed.

In case I missed it -

did we get a Mafia QT?