Return to Gambits (SK Win!)

[Cobblerfone]

VOTE: jilynne1991

For having that username. Though if it's all the same it feels like we're out of RVS. Still, I'm terribad at D-1 and always get myself into trouble it seems. So if it's all the same to you I'mma wait awhile (think page 10) to actually consider anybody a serious suspect.

[Cobblerfone]

I'm sorry, but I just do not like participating in RVS, I'll be fencesitting until I see something that is worth mentioning or catches my eye.

A meta means nearly nothing, so I don't think that's a very good question. Anyways, I've never played with you, so I don't think anything of your meta.

It's like me voting for you is me voting for myself. I can't let this RVS vote stand any longer.

UNVOTE: jil

[Cobblerfone]

Pro-town post? I hardly did or say anything. I may be newer than you but, here's some tips:

1. Don't decide if a person is scum or town based on a single post.

2. Scum can be/fake pro-townishness.

I'm loving the easy going nature of the game so far. Shame it'll probably change soon.

[Cobblerfone]

You changed an RVS vote based on someone having similar play to yours. Therefore you see that the other person could be town as you know that you're town (hypothetically). That is definitely protown.

So that's you're logic? I was expecting that it would have more to do with RVS. I don't know why.

What do you mean by easy going nature? Cobbler, why would you tell someone they might be wrong if they say you're pro-town. I don't quite understand that.

Easy going? Well I haven't done a head count, but not an awful lot of people have been really posting yet.

I didn't understand why he thought that post in particular was pro-town. (I think if anything it's townish not pro-town. But eh, semantics.) Him saying, "You are town," without really explaining why piqued my interest. (and I'll admit, pipped my scumdar a bit.)

[Cobblerfone]

That's exactly what I'm thinking. He makes me laugh because of his stupidity and oblivioun, but it makes me frustrated too!

Please explain why you bother posting then? What you're doing is generally called active lurking.

Um? Doesn't this second post strike anyone a bit odd when it seems jil is familiar with vezok?

[Cobblerfone]

Why do you care about others opinions so much?

Before Surye ninja'd me I was going to say it was semi-rhetorical.

@Surye, why you answering CMAR's question to me? Me-thinks CMAR was reaction-fishing.

[Cobblerfone]

As for the mass claim. I thought mass claims in open games are good because it limits the scum to claim vanilla. Unfortunately in this game we can't see the roles of others so no MC.

That's an interesting idea.

@Empking:

do lynches flip a person's role?

[Cobblerfone]

So now I guess we decide if it's worth the risk.

I vote: Yes to Mass Claim

[Cobblerfone]

What is you're opinion now of the mass claim option, ironhead?

Mine is, if we want to mass claim ever, today is the only day that it'll be feasible. But after thinking about it, a middle-of-the-road approach might be better.

The only two options seem to be, "mass claim today" or "take all claims later on with a huge grain of salt".

[Cobblerfone]

Actually I'm not sure what I mean by "middle of the road" anymore. I thought I meant "take claims with a grain of salt" but that's actually the exact opposite side of the road unless you take "trust alll claims without counterclaims" as an option.

[Cobblerfone]

jilynne, C-Worl, Cobblerfone: Why are you not voting right now? Isn't there enough content for you to make an informed decision on who is most likely to be scum right now?

I'm still waiting for the people that are catching up. I'd say what I think CMAR is or how I plan to figure out

exactly

what he is, but I don't want to give the mafia any ideas. I however do NOT think he is a goon or serial killer. And thus, a bad lynch for today. I'm looking forward more to see how Surye and Mask's conversation goes.

MC is a no I take it then. Though I have actually realized something: We CAN still trust claims for today.

[Cobblerfone]

*if someone gets to L-1 or something.

[Cobblerfone]

Actually here's a question:

Anyone who is pushing an MC to me is likely trying to setup a gambit with nks. Town won't benefit, as it will be harder to confirm claims, causing more confusion than normal. Scum however WILL have more information.

What do you mean? IF there were a mass-claim no scum-gambits would be allowed. They'd have a list of power-roles though. So how is this a proper reason against MC?

Also, I assumed I'd be able to analyze the number of kills to find out what CMAR was, but I realize now there are too many variables. I'll just say I think he's either the traitor or a certain PR. He's dropped too many gambit-hints.

VOTE: Surye

[Cobblerfone]

is unchallenged counter claiming with no night kills revealed.

Wait what? How would that happen unless nobody waited? I'd think if we ever did MC that'd we wait for everyone to answer. That's why I set it up as a vote. If you mean a MC after today, well that's impossible. Heck, after today waiting for counter-claims won't work either.

[Cobblerfone]

Mod confirmed that lynches flip. NKs flip to their respective killers. (Except hider, I think.)

I think I understand where you're coming from now, though.

UNVOTE: Surye

@wredfar

: what don't you like besides his RVS reactions and why?

My list so far:

Town

jil (outburst was bad, but no way is it coming from scum.)
ironhead (I've really liked his posts)

Leaning Town

Nocmen (mafia don't use "feelings" for their "scum"-leads, I think.)
Mask (He came up with the self-investigating idea.)
monk (I feel a kindred spirit with the way he posts.)

Null

CMAR (I've explained this.)
C-Worl (C-Worl is just plain null)

DEITY YOU NINJA

[Cobblerfone]

Just came back to say I just realized that Surye has been posting a lot but apparently didn't catch the mod confirming that lynches flip. And thus he's not paying attention.

VOTE: Surye
again.

You didn't technically ninja me this time deitykabuto. But, eh. I feel no shame.

[Cobblerfone]

Why does this matter? I know the mod confirms lynches. I never said they didn't. My concern was night kills. Why does this differentiation mean a vote/non-vote for me? Looks like you're trying hard to justify a vote on me..

Then how does THIS make sense:

Sorry, I may not be coming across clearly. Say 2 people claim vig, 3 people claim cop. You'd be in a situation that you wouldn't know the flip of the dead person, and there's no confirmation of the roles of the dead.

SIMPLE lynch cops, tell vigs to shoot each other. You'd still have two other guys to find, but I don't see how having no night-flips affects this scenario.

[Cobblerfone]

(assuming you refer to bulletproof SK) Then you lynch the vig that didn't die. You might as well come out and explain in full. We're not MC, so you can't worry about "helping the scum". Sounds more like you're trying to backpedal out of it.

[Cobblerfone]

No, I don't need to, I think it's a bad idea. Why are you pushing me so hard? On what? That I didn't want an MC? And now that YOU'VE decided we're not MC, what does it matter? You have not addressed any of my reads of comments on the game other than that I did not want MC.

What matters is that you gave a very odd reason to not MC. If you don't want to reveal your reasoning because the scum could do it without a MC, we'll just lynch the first person to claim who isn't at L-1.

You're tunneling so hard I think you're lost

The reason it sounds like I'm tunneling is because

you

keep wanting to avoid this explanation. And

I

keep asking you for an explanation. Nocmen however isn't paying attention. He's no longer leaning town.

[Cobblerfone]

I understand why it might be if there is absolutely no way to close the loopholes. Do you understand why I find it suspicious? If you can answer that question satisfactorily, I'll let you off about the other one.

[Cobblerfone]

Town not answering questions is always work suspicion, and that's why I am trying to show why I am doing it in this case.

Thanks for humoring me here. That is one of the reasons I continued to suspect you. (The other and more original reason was that as scum you would be more likely to think about these more as opposed to the more obvious "It'll reveal PRs." Plus bringing it up without elaborating was kind of pointless.)

UNVOTE: Surye

Well. Guess it's on to Nocmen and wredfar. wredfar, I still want the other reasons for voting C-Worl. Nocmen, I actually can't think of any questions for you at the moment. (At least none that Surye wouldn't be more suited to.) I'll reread you both tomorrow or soon.

[Cobblerfone]

With Nocmen's explanation I don't have anything to question him. wredfar doesn't have enough posts.
I looked through some ISOs and found this though:

I think at this point there should be one scum on the CMAR wagon.

What makes you think so?

[Cobblerfone]

Town

jil (outburst was bad, but no way is it coming from scum.)
Ironhead (I've really liked his posts)

Leaning Town

Mask (He came up with the self-investigating idea.)
Surye (For now)

Town vibe

monk (I feel a kindred spirit with the way he posts.)
DeityKabuto
Sathoris
vezokpiraka

Interests of pursuit

Earworm
wredfar
Surye (Yes he's in two catergories.)

Null

CMAR (I've explained this.)
C-Worl (C-Worl is just plain null)
Nocmen (Went from leaning town to interest to unable to question. Will evaluate further.)

Everyone not mentioned hasn't really stuck out to me or doesn't have many posts.

I don't have a scum catergory. I'm an ex-vibe-style-hunter but that didn't go well. Plus, I'm mostly inconfident in my scumreads so if I did go after anyone on the first day it'd be halfheartedly. I have to wait for voting/lynch data before I'm truly confident in anything after my experience in my newbie-game. So unless something interesting comes up, it'll be hard for me to think anyone is really scum today.

[Cobblerfone]

Interesting. Do you fell like you're playing the same as in the last empking game where you were scum?

My play this game feels like a new step in a continuing evolution from all four of my previous games.

Out of my two completed games this one feels closer to Cthulhu Speed Mafia because almost no one has me as a suspect. As opposed to when I was a vanilla townie in my newbie game and got to L-1 on D-1. It definitely has a significantly different feel from both though. But that might be because it's open.

What are your thoughts on C-Worl's, yours, and my play compared to CSM? What are your thoughts on the play of any others you have played with?

[Cobblerfone]

The chances are with four scum and sixteen players that one scum was on the four person CMAR wagon. That's all.

...That's not how statistics work, though.

leaning both town and scum?

It's "interest of pursuit". I have him as leaning town for now. But I'm watching him in particular to either solidfy the read or change it.

You seem too afraid and cautious to go be wrong on someone you call scum, when it's day 1, and cases on people have to start somewhere. I will have to read this previous game that vezok mentioned though, and compare to your actions so far, as much as I hate basing cases on meta.

Please read the newbie game as well. I think it'll explain my "afraid to outright call people scum relentlessly on D-1" mindset I have now. Plus I'm not exactly sure how that might work as evidence since there's two scum-factions that are also hunting each other. At least, I think they would.

[Cobblerfone]

Also, While I may accept meta as a reason for an attack, I don't like it as a defense, especialyl as a self defense, after you mention how you've evolved your playstyle in games. You were much more reckless in your newbie game, but why should that stop you if you are town? The cautionness you demonstrate here really pins you as scum to me.

I agree with recklessness as being more townish. But my recklessness has made several people think I'm scum on D-1 (though I haven't lynched in my five games). AND it makes me inconfident in my own reads when I have to back out of them like in my newbie game. So, I've changed to being a poker, if you will. I'm questioning things that catch my eye and waiting for the responses with the hope of starting conversations. I've lost faith in most scumtells and perhaps even scumtells as a concept, so I'm changing it up a bit. I'm planning on this mostly being a D-1 strategy.

You were right when you said that scumhunting had to start somewhere. And for me, it's starting with these questions and conversations. By the way this has been quite productive for me. I'm back on you being town.

I concur with Sathoris that earworm's "statistic" isn't vote-worthy. Particularly because he's new. But he's still on my watchlist.

I have one question to Cobbler: Do you still think an MC would be a good strategy today?

No. I might think about it a bit more though. At the very least to try to see what Surye sees.

earworm:

1. Out of all of the scum only the traitor would post something like that to communicate to their buddies who they thought was a good target. But CMAR was the leading wagon at the time so... I could've just jumped on with my actual half-belief that he's the traitor as an excuse. (A bit WIFOMy, sure. still sub-optimal play otherwise.)

2. I was voting on a lead with the purpose of continuing the conversation.

3. Well with three hypothetical cop-claims what would

you

do?

[Cobblerfone]

I know this was posed to earworm but I think this question is interesting, what are your reasons for wanting to find the traitor above any other mafia, or is this in addition to the other mafia?

Where did I indicate wanting to find the traitor above the other scum? To me, finding the traitor is secondary, especially on day one.

My numbered points are counters to his three reasons for voting me. I was refering to how he found my post supsicious by "outing CMAR" when of all the scum only the traitor would try to do anything like that as they don't have a NK to deal with PR suspects. But at the same time, there's no reason for the traitor to do that if their suspected PR was already the lead wagon. Now, this is just me trying to extrapolate earworm's argument and I don't even know if "outing CMAR" was his reason since he didn't exactly say it in so many words. But I digress.

[Cobblerfone]

Your discussion with Surye evolved into a point where you didn't discuss the cons or pros of MC but about 'scumhunting' to a point.

My discussion with Surye was about why he brought up his reason against MC instead of a more standard reason.

the only way we get 3 cops claiming at the same time is if the sk claims, which is highly unlikely.

That was the whole point of Surye's hypothetical scenario. 3 cops, 2 vigs. You can't go around and turn it into something else. Speaking of which, how do you know only the Serial Killer would claim?

VOTE: earworm

[Cobblerfone]

1. Your post smells of rolefish. That's why I didn't like it

Rolefish? CMAR was the leading wagon. I was eplaining why I didn't think he should be lynched today.

2. It's mainly your reasoning. It's poorly thought out. All the info was there before you asked any questions if I remember.

I'm not even sure what this means. My vote was a punctuation. "if you remember"? Why not look at it.

Which changed your view on him. You changed votes on him more than once. You didn't advocate for an MC anymore, you simply reacted on his posts. How is that not figuring out someone'sa llignement.

I'm not really sure I'm following you here. How is that scummy? Or was that an unrelated point that you just put in your post?

[Cobblerfone]

You gave no reason why you're not in favor of an MC anymore. Why is that?

If you check my post right after I "voted" for a MC you'll see I started to realize a MC might not be as hot I thought. Basically, now it's because any advantages of a MC (Preventing scum from claiming PRs on later days) can be gotten through other methods. (such as not trusting any PR claim.)

[Cobblerfone]

What I want to know, is when Cobber started suspecting earworm. He ignores him at first, then puts him in an interest list.

I first thought something was fishy with earworm when he said that it was likely that CMAR already had a scum vote. (I pulled a similiar stunt in Cthulhu Speed Mafia.)

Am I the only one that sees the contradiction in earworm?

No.

[Cobblerfone]

IF WE GET A COP CLAIM TODAY NOBODY SHOULD CC. We wait for tomorrow and ask the claimed cop his sanity. THEN ask for CCs. That narrows down their role and anyone who wants to cc must claim that specific role. (because all cops will self investigate tonight)

Ah. You see, that's why you need to be more clear:

if

we get a cop claim today NO

one should

CC. We lynch someone else and wait for tommorrow. ALL

OF THE

COPS

SHOULD

SELF INVESTIGATE. We ask the

claimed cop

his sanity.

We then

ask if anybody wants to cc his sanity. If yes we keep our eyes on the two of them and continue to ask them for results. If the scum kills the cop, scum dies next day.

You still changed the hypothetical scenario but you get points for thinking outside the box I guess. The SK remark is weird but not incriminating by itself. It was that combined with the change of scenario. It seemed made up to make yourself look more town. But since you actually came up with a better plan to prevent that scenario, I think that's enough to warrant an unvote.

Though I have to ask: How does that last sentence work?

If the scum kills the cop, scum dies next day.

UNVOTE:

[Cobblerfone]

i love you too Pineykins.

This reminds me of the last game we were in together with you as scum.

But this:

I have played against Pine when he was scum, been on the same scum team with him, been town in the same game as him, am hydra'd with him in another game. So, if anyone would know about my meta, my way of thinking, or my tells, it would be him.

Seems like a townish explanation. Can you tell though, what tone you were trying to express with this post:

Pine's in this game? Oh boy...

Because depending on how you read them, it seems to clash with the above. Without sarcasm, how do you feel about Pine being in the game?

[Cobblerfone]

@C-Worl: Interesting response.

I actually don't find anything that scummy about it, (a bit theatrical I guess. Or maybe that's just my own imagination.) If you want to continue on this trail Nocmen, fine by me. As for myself, I'll try to find yet another player to question in my next post.

[Cobblerfone]

Found several people:

DeityKabuto: How would you describe your posting style?

wredfar, Mask, Vezok: Who else do you think is scummy besides the people you've voted for respectively?

[Cobblerfone]

I do agree though with the Cobbler mention, he has made a lot of repeating, with little scum hunting, but his post frequency has definitely decreased in the past couple days.

There's a reason for this. Either I'm waiting for people to answer questions or I can't think of any questions to ask. Still, maybe I do need to change it up now that we're closing in on the 13th page mark. I'm just not sure how to do that without accidentally tunneling.

I do disagree with Sathoris, but I don't think he's earned my vote yet.

Still waiting on my four questionees.

[Cobblerfone]

@Kabuto: how would you describe your posting style?

Though it seems to have already been pointed out that it's very brief. (And your posts here have some wagon-hopping. Which is null in my book, but when combined with brevity not good at all.)

So I'll ask you this question instead: Who do you think are scum?

[Cobblerfone]

VOTE: Deity Kabuto

He didn't truly answer my question. I want a name. The fluff in his ISO makes me particularly happy with this vote.

The Mask only indirectly answered my questioned. Noted.

That leaves Vezok and wredfar.

[Cobblerfone]

WHAT IS IT?

wredfar, Mask, Vezok: Who else do you think is scummy besides the people you've voted for respectively?

You answered with Sathoris. Kind of.

Vezok, do you mind answering?
Kabuto, would you also mind answering?

There are at least two types of answers I'll accept.

[Cobblerfone]

Not sure which of the DK wagoners to vote yet.

I pulled this exact trick in my scum game, Nocmen. Making a quick-wagon seem scummy and limiting my primary vote pool to the three most suspicious wagoners.

As a side note: With Quilford in I have at least one person from each of my completed games.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nocmen

[Cobblerfone]

That's cute. But my god, First, you are angry someone doesn't believe your claim, like it's OMG obvious to anyone you're telling the truth. Then you say he's stupid or scum (for not believing your claim), then you proceed to get more emotional, then say that you'll vote him all day, because he "slipped". What was his slip, not believing your claim at face value?

You forgot the hypocrisy in his asking for content and for asking for more reads.

@Kabuto: Reread your iso and tell me how protown you sound.

[Cobblerfone]

I'll also offer to hammer once his reads are posted.

[Cobblerfone]

Okay, Ironhead is naming names on the wagon to create a safety-net lynchpool and it reminds me even more of me from Cthulu Speed Mafia than Nocmen's comment. The difference being that Ironhead includes himself among the suspicious.

VOTE: Ironhead

[Cobblerfone]

Anybody have any clue why there's only two kills? There should be three.

There's any number of reasons, double kills, triple kill + hider, two kills plus the Serial Killer getting hit, double kill + hider + SK got hit, SK dies + SK's target, (thinking up these possible scenarios are fun) etc.

It's part of what makes the nightkills even trickier. Heck, for all we know the mafia or Serial Killer are dead. We could even be down to just one mafia and wouldn't know it until tomorrow. This game is going to be nuts.

The SK is also a roleblocker,

I forgot about that. Hmm... I'm going to go with null.

[Cobblerfone]

[qoute="Surye"]If Ironhead hadn't posted that, who would you have suspected or voted when the day started, based on the information already there?[/quote]

I would be voting Nocmen.

[Cobblerfone]

Fine, maybe limiting yourself to part of a bandwagon is just bad instead of scummy. And since Ironhead was a townread yesterday I'll unvote.

UNVOTE: Ironhead

And since earworm was suspicious yesterday and today.

VOTE: earworm

Those who joined the wagon after his role-claim include C-Worl, me, and earworm, with DK being the hammer on his own wagon.

It should also be noted that many people, including Sathoris, Vezok, and me were offering to hammer. Your list omitted people that basically fit your description, and that's something that bugs me. Especially since as far as I know, the "one scum" you believe to be on the wagon MIGHT already be dead.

[Cobblerfone]

I don't like how everyone is sheeping yesterday's case against earworm, with no comment on the lynch or nks.

What can be said about yesterday's lynch? The NKs would be pretty hard to discuss. Though, since he's dead, I'll just state that I think CMAR/SG was either the hider or traitor.

[Cobblerfone]

But seriously people. If you don't want to vote, give me suspicions at least. Who do you think might be scum, who do you think might be town? You people are acting like this is the beginning of the game and there's nothing to go on. We have a full day behind us. Use it.

Since your pressing so hard for it why don't you give yours first? The only living player you've commented on today is myself I do believe.

[Cobblerfone]

@earworm: Mind explaining your reads? Perhaps with an example of what makes you think who's what?

[Cobblerfone]

UNVOTE: earworm

Hider is tricky. It's the only role that doesn't reveal itself when it's killed at night. He could have agreed with my theory of CMAR being the hider and decided it was a decent chance.

[Cobblerfone]

Peregrine you are reaching.

Peregrine as a replacement, what are your thoughts on the rest of the players?

explain what you mean here.

I'm just not understanding.

*shrug* just pointing out the facts of a hider claim, and my own random thoughts.

[Cobblerfone]

Anyone that I don't mention a lot are people I have no issue with. The next person in line for my vote would be jily. Not liking how she apparently misunderstood me asking why she never voted as a request to wagon onto DK.

Why aren't you voting her then?

I'm done giving Vezo a free ride because he's a VI. He's been playing bad all game (nothing new here), but these two posts today are just headscratchers.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vezo

I was going to say let the Vig take care of him. But, then I realized they could be dead. Still, I don't feel like wasting a lynch on a six.

[Cobblerfone]

You guys are right. I'm just tired.

Backpedaling?

VOTE: Peregrine

Also,

Peregrine as a replacement, what are your thoughts on the rest of the players?

[Cobblerfone]

Peregrine 514 ... HOWEVER, thinking CMAR is the traitor is idiotic and my gut tells me not understanding the traitor mechanic is probably a towntell, though it could be faked. UGH. I was so convinced PV was was scum until the end of this post. (Edit: this towntell is now invalid.)

Wait, what did he misunderstand?

Also, you forgot me.

[Cobblerfone]

While I suspected cobbler, and still do, earworm's vote seemed like the most possible one to

bus

You mean "push" right? I was going to say scumslip but that makes no sense since I know I'm town, and earworm is like 99% confirmed town.

[Cobblerfone]

What amrun said. Of all the votes on your wagon, I suspected his to be bussing you.

Ah, the grammar messed me up.

[Cobblerfone]

I had this idea in mind if I drew scum here...olololol did Mask just try to push himself as townie on us???[/lampshade]

Okay this is just odd. I'm going to look through your iso.


POST ISO CHECK:

I'll wait for CMAR to unvote so I don't look omgusy..... what???

This is the only other one. Were you really this flamboyant in Speed Mafia?

POST META CHECK:
You called people off for not voting suspects in Speed Mafia where you were town.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: The Mask

[Cobblerfone]

The more I read those posts with the context that you apparently did not have a townread on DK at the time, the more it feels like a slip.

Wait, what? Explain this sentence please.

@Mask: Explain your waiting to vote multiple times in the context of your meta.

[Cobblerfone]

Looks like Mask knows Sathoris was town.

(When you see it, you'll shit bricks)

Is this what you're refering to? Slip it could be, but there's two ways of interpreting it. And in context, either could make sense. Or...

if I were a cop, I would know better
(When you see it, you'll shit bricks)

Check the name of the thread, Amrun.

Are you saying you're gambitting cop, a cop that's gambitting, or what?

[Cobblerfone]

@Amrun, Surye + Cobblerfone: Thoughts on Pine?

Somewhat townish I guess. I can't think of any examples of why, except maybe that he hasn't done anything scummy. If he's scum, I'm thinking he's the Serial Killer. His "gambit" plus this:

The SK is also a roleblocker, earworm. Could also be that the Mafia hit their traitor.

Seems more SK oriented than mafia.

[Cobblerfone]

@Pergrine: I've got the hammer, so claim.

[Cobblerfone]

@empking: Do the sanities flip to the player that nightkills them?

[Cobblerfone]

why are you asking this?

It makes sense to me now. Scum would know what to fake, but since they dont know which cop they killed if they killed a cop last night, they can't fake the insane.

^exactly. Though now that I think about it, it's possible if Peregrine is scum and killed a cop he could just claim with this scenario:

If there's no CC, he gets a free pass.

If there is a CC he draws out the other cop and his partner NKs them.

I don't think we should lynch him today, but we should keep an eye on him.

[Cobblerfone]

Also, Cobbler, you seem unfazed by the middle paragraph, or perhaps even overlooked it. It WAS for you.

Was there a question in there that I was supposed to answer?

Cobbler is SK-hunting now..what say you about this post, Amrun - And really, why haven't you commented on it at all yet?

I was asked what I thought of Pine, I gave my thoughts.

Did anyone else notice Monk reads=Amrun reads and just not comment on it because it's not worth it?

I honestly cannot see how this is a scumtell at all. You make it sound like reads are supposed to be randomly generated.

[Cobblerfone]

I'm 90% sure that vezok is town. However it doesn't really look like either wagon is really taking off.

I don't really like the vote on a claimed power role by chkflip, since we can keep an eye on him. And even if Peregrine is mafia the serial killer could take care of him. The same goes if he's the SK with the mafia. (Though admittedly it's POSSIBLE that a scum faction is already wiped out). Personally, I'm going to wait for chkflip's response to Surye.

[Cobblerfone]

@empking: chkflip has gone past 72 hours hasn't he? Have you prodded him?

[Cobblerfone]

So, what. I've got votes on me because I have a personal life? That's silly. Check my personal ISO guys, I haven't played in any games, this isn't some lame ass attempt at active lurking.

Please answer this question:

ITT people claim asinine things and we just beleive them.

VOTE: PeregrineV

How is that claim asinine in an open setup game?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: chkflip

[Cobblerfone]

Because he hid with someone last night and can thus announce to us someone else who is confirmed town.

But if the bodyguard protects them then how do they confirm town?

Wow. Are you saying that not only did you inexplicably protect Amrun (putting your life on the line for someone who is an unknown) instead of protecting the insane cop, hider, or confirmed-town; but also, for some odd reason the role-blocker chose to target you (another unknown) instead of role-blocking the insane cop or hider?

It does sound like a stretch. Plus I don't really see the point in Vezok's claim. But if he were going to fakeclaim, wouldn't it be that he protected the insane cop? Unless Amrun was the bodyguard and Vezok killed her or something, that's the only explanation I can come up with. Ugh. Gambits.

VOTE: Mask for now. I have to think through this.

[Cobblerfone]

Cobbler, why are you stretching to defend Vezok, and not vote for him?

It's just so surreal. Why would he do this as either scum faction? But then again, I've only played with him once where he was town.

@Vezok: If you're town you'll have to convince everyone that somebody would block you instead of Peregrine. Can you explain why or who?

[Cobblerfone]

So, she's played a lot with you and knows when you might be a power role?

[Cobblerfone]

@: Vezok why would Ironhead block you? Can you please explain why you think jil blocked you?

UNVOTE:

I don't think we're going to get through this day without vezok getting lynched. Still, even though he's only about half-way I'll wait for earworm.

[Cobblerfone]

Because she thinks I'm better than I look. I game made her think that. Unfortunately it's ongoing.

What does that have to do with guessing you're a power role?

[Cobblerfone]

I'll wait for earworm's replacement to hammer I guess. I'm still not entirely comfortable with the lynch, but the thing with the blocking just doesn't seem right and the game is stalling.

[Cobblerfone]

@Mod:I'm gonna be V/LA part or all of tomorrow and Saturday. I'm not exactly sure at what time but I'll back on Sunday.

[Cobblerfone]

I'm back. I'm not really all that swell about vezok self-hammering. I kind of think no-lynching would be okay, except then we don't see the flip and then it'd probably just be everyone hopping on vezok again tomorrow.

[Cobblerfone]

I admit to missing out one of my night action PMs

This is what Vezok is talking about. That's good enough for me.

VOTE: Mask

For now. Though my internet has been spotty.

[Cobblerfone]

Cobbler, that's presuming that the missed PM isnt related to the modkill?

Huh? Look, the only thing that didn't make sense about Vezok's claim was that somebody would roleblock him. Now that there's reasonable doubt about that Vezok is a horrible lynch.

Hey Pine, suspect #2, what's your opinion of Vezok now?

[Cobblerfone]

Wow. If this is good enough for you, then you are fully invested in vezokpiraka -- if he flips scum, then you are obviously his partner. Agree or disagree?

If he's scum you can totally lynch me tomorrow. You know though, if you weren't confirmed town I'd say this sounds scummy.

@mod: Does the hider die if they hide behind the serial killer?

[Cobblerfone]

Need something new something fresh.

VOTE: Pine

What do you think of vezok now?

[Cobblerfone]

VOTE: Mask

Mafia
Mask, Nocmen?

SK
Kcda? Sora?

Never hunted SKs before. :/ Traitor isn't up there because they could be dead, they could be recruited, they could be unrecruited, etc.

[Cobblerfone]

@mod: When's deadline?

[Cobblerfone]

So who's it going to be? Mask, Kcda, or Vezok?

[Cobblerfone]

I think he might be the SK. Unless required for a lynch, he's the only other person I think I'll vote for today.

[Cobblerfone]

I'm not positive he's the SK. I just think it's more likely that he's the SK than Nocmen, Sora, or Surye.

[Cobblerfone]

So wait, you post this, seemingly ignoring vezok in this post, but in your next post, you add him after Iron mentions about him likely being your partner.

Seems like pretty solid buddying.

Anyone else want a fast wagon on Cobbler before deadline?

I put Vezok in the post you're refering to because it was a general, "who's going to get lynched?" My mafia read, my best SK read, or the other "wagon".

[Cobblerfone]

@mod: Does cop get guilty on the serial killer and traitor?

[Cobblerfone]

I'm town. Vezok is the bodyguard. If we can't agree between Mask, Vezok or Kc, how about low-profile Sora? Or anyone besides the three people I'm sure are town? (me, Iron, Vezok)

[Cobblerfone]

Then again...I don't know if that directly works, if SK is still alive, then SK kills Iron, while vezok (if scum) kills...no I think that still works?

Wait. What? If SK is still alive they must've killed Amrun right? If Amrun was the SK then the mafia didn't target a confirmed innocent or power role. Point is, tonight isn't going to be predictable either way.

[Cobblerfone]

I'll finish it for you.

@mod: And if they hide behind an unturned traitor?

1. How do you know vezokpiraka is the bodyguard? Because of his unprovoked claim? Surely you don't instantly believe every claim you hear?

The mod admitted to missing a night action. Both kills went through. You received a guilty on Amrun. Amrun couldn't have been the bodyguard. Peregrine's a cop. As far as I know the Hider went AWOL since before night started and probably didn't send in an action altogether. (Thus not missed.) That leaves bodyguard. And nobody has counterclaimed.

[Cobblerfone]

Last night I realized Ironhead could theoretically still be scum. Depending on how the mod answers this next question:

@mod: Can the hider be roleblocked? Also, can you tell us what night the PM was missed?

You're right! Earworm probably didn't send in an action altogether, which would comport perfectly with what the GM said!

If he didn't send in an action how was it missed? How is it a mistake he had to admit to?