Mini 1183: Mafiamatical Mathia - Game over!

[Oopidstay]

Vote: Oopidstay.

Because I'm me.

[Oopidstay]

Vote: Oopidstay.

Because I'm me.

so how does this self-vote help us to get out of RVS and do some serious scumhunting?

thought not

VOTE: Oopid

I can no haz fun?

[Oopidstay]

Self votes are bad, period.

Why?

[Oopidstay]

Why not? Really, I'm curious.

[Oopidstay]

How is self-voting necessarily playing against my win condition?

[Oopidstay]

EBWOP: Is self-voting necessarily playing against your wincon.

Closer to what I actually meant.

[Oopidstay]

Self-voting does not imply intent to self-lynch.

[Oopidstay]

Are you mafia oopidstay?

Nope. Are you?

[Oopidstay]

2) what people feel about self-voting has nothing to do with alignment.

So...why'm I scum, again?

[Oopidstay]

EBWOP: Since I've not been scum in a mafia game, yet, I can't really answer don's question.

[Oopidstay]

@ don: It was for reactions. I would've preferred to wait a bit longer, but it's starting to get to the point where addition reactions won't be as helpful. Besides, I think what I got is good enough to work with.

Unvote: Oopidstay. Vote: TwistedSpoon

Out of all the responses to the self-vote, his feels the most contrived. Voting me because I made a "silly" vote in a stage of the game generally regarded as silly? C'mon.

Juls I'm actually leaning more town on. Her disgust with my self-vote is understandable and much better than Twisted's.

Implosion, I'm actually not getting good vibes from. His defense of me is awfully strong for early-game information, and I'm not all that keen on how he keeps leaving room for changing stances in #38. (Sorry if that doesn't parse well, I'm having trouble wording it.)

don didn't do enough with the self-vote for me to get anything out of it.

[Oopidstay]

EBWOP: ...where additional reactions...

[Oopidstay]

My point was and is that the sooner we get out of RVS the sooner we can do serious scumhunting

self voting applies pressure on no-one and we get no nearer out of RVS

therefore self-voting is a pointless anchor into the RVS and offers no momentum to the game (by itself at least)

Why haven't you indicated any suspicion of implosion, Morthas, and don, then? (That was a rhetorical question.) Point being, they weren't trying that hard to "get out of RVS and do some serious scumhunting" with their votes at that point of the game, either. What makes my self-vote different enough to make you call it scummy while ignoring the three people I just mentioned?

Of course self-voting doesn't generate moment

by itself

. If it did, it wouldn't be reaction hunting, would it? The whole point of doing something controversial is to see how people respond to it (or at least it should be). (By the way, we aren't in RVS anymore. Thank you. )

Also, Juls' reason for voting me, while misguided, is a lot more sensible than yours. Your attempt to validate your stance by equating it with someone else's is noted, though.

[Oopidstay]

You didn't think it was controverisal as shown by

How is self-voting necessarily playing against my win condition?

This is a logical fallacy. Even if I didn't think something was controversial, that does not prevent me from recognizing that other people can consider it controversial, thus allowing me to use it to provoke responses.

Also:
1. So you do suspect them? The issue is why are you being selective in your application of suspicion? Why jump on me and not on one of those other three who, according to your reasoning for voting me, could just have easily garnered that vote?
2. So...you're saying that my self-vote was just anti-town. What does that make me, then? Anti-town as well?

[Oopidstay]

2) Your self vote was pointless at best. Unless you still think it was a good reaction fish in which case I would like to know what conclusions you were going to make from people pointing out that it was a waste of a vote before you self-voted

I think I stirred the waters up enough to get some stuff to work with. I was mainly looking for bad reasons to vote me and overdefensiveness. Speaking of the latter...

Unvote: TwistedSpoon. Vote:

(P-edit: sees three votes on implosion.)

FoS: implosion

I'm still wary of you, Twisted, but I'll buy the pressure argument for now.

[Oopidstay]

Vote: Kalofer

I agree with don's sentiments, and something's really bothering me about his #47. Can't quite put a finger on it at the moment.

[Oopidstay]

EBWOP: ...bothering me about Kalofer's #47.

[Oopidstay]

Real life is throwing a nasty curve-ball.

IV.) I kept my vote on Oopid BECAUSE he hadn't encountered self votes in another game. It removes the argument that he was doing it for reaction testing (which I still don't buy). He would only have done that if he had seen that done before. Otherwise it looked like scum who didn't know that it was bad to self vote.

Who's to say that I need to have seen it done in a game that I played in, kimosabe? (Oh, for the record, someone actually

did

try the self-vote trick in one of the games I played, although it failed because someone else pulled another reaction-test gimmick right at the same time. Mini 1087.)

I suspect him mostly because I don't believe that he actually selfvoted to generate reactions that he could work with. It looks like he might have stolen the reason from implosion and his posting in the first 1.5 pages didn't look like it had serious motivation behind it. Finally, he eventually expressed suspicion of Twistedspoon despite not showing any concern for his vote originally.

Well, with all due respect, if I'd made it

look

like I was self-voting to generate reactions, that would defeat the purpose of doing it in the first place. And what good does reaction-hunting do if I leap on the first catch immediately, thus negating the reaction-provocation in the first place? You gotta be more patient than that, mon.

@Oopid: How do you from being ready to vote implosion to wagonjumping/sheeping to Kalofer?

Because I can has more than one suspect?

To respond more seriously, I jived with don's reasoning, and something felt wrong with Kal's #47 to me.

Don't really have time to look much more in-depth right now, I'm afraid.

[Oopidstay]

Well, now. Dead mafioso from lynch, no dead town by night. I'd say we're off to a pleasant start.

Juls is obvtown now, btw.

[Oopidstay]

Also, other neighbor should claim, since I don't see the point in having two mafia neighbors, which would make the other neighbor confirmed town. (Unless there's three neighbors, but in a game this small I rather doubt that.)

[Oopidstay]

Vote: Morthas

ISO him and look at his behavior with regards to Kalofer. It's suspiciously...null.

[Oopidstay]

@ TS: Why would scum speedhammer their own partner so early on Day 1?

[Oopidstay]

(Sorry, I really should write all this in one post. ) Morthas interacted with Kalofer, but...it feels weird. Read it and tell me what you think.

I didn't read Implosion yet. I still hold my suspicions from D1, but Morthas is giving me too strong a vibe to ignore.

Also, no offense, but that's a bad reason to call Wicked obvtown. There's no reason why scum can't throw an early bus. Early

hammers

, though, now that's a different story... (See Juls.)

[Oopidstay]

Cut D1 discussion? Really?

Why didn't she simply wait for the Kalofer wagon to blow over? It was already appearing to head that way, so why not let the storm pass by instead of killing her partner? In a game this small, there's likely only two scum, so hammering your partner early on D1, when there was a chance he could've lived through it, is a horrible tactical decision.

...and really, if you can vote Juls for this, you really can't declare Wicked obvtown for throwing the first vote (at least on the vote count) down on Kalofer. If scum was going to vote their partner, I'd expect it to be much closer to the beginning, and

certainly

not the hammer vote. Not when the lynch isn't set in stone.

[Oopidstay]

Unvote: Morthas

[Oopidstay]

EBWOP: Pending this neighbor biz.

[Oopidstay]

Last scum is probably either morthas

or plague

.

Why plague?

[Oopidstay]

not only do i think its viable, but i think its necessary. the hammer only made sense to me if juls was neighbor. she's not. the situation is too wifomic as to whether or not she'd hyperbus, so i think the best option is to remove her from the equation.

Vote: don_johnson

This is scum trying to take advantage of an opportune target, folks. It would be a lot harder to push a Juls mislynch after today, since the heat she's taking from the D1 hammer would've died down...

Juls was town even before the hammer move, and there are a

lot

better reasons to think it's town-oriented than to think it's scum-oriented. Here, allow me:

Why didn't she simply wait for the Kalofer wagon to blow over? It was already appearing to head that way, so why not let the storm pass by instead of killing her partner? In a game this small, there's likely only two scum, so hammering your partner early on D1, when there was a chance he could've lived through it, is a horrible tactical decision.

[Oopidstay]

EBWOP: Before the nitpickers chew me to pieces, she

appeared

town even before the hammer move.

[Oopidstay]

Unvote: don_johnson

His recent posts are alleviating my suspicion of him. Plague's attack on don was sketch.

Busy right now, will get a post proper up when I have time (hopefully later today/tonight).

[Oopidstay]

Vote: Wicked

========[]

[Oopidstay]

I agree that the cop should claim. So I better get on with it:

I'm the cop. N1 I investigated Twisted, N2 I investigated Plague. Both are town.

With Morthas an uncountered Neighbor that leaves only three possible scum in the pool: Juls, don, and implosion. Juls still looks town to me, so I think focusing on don and implosion seems like the best move today. (From my perspective, obviously.)

[Oopidstay]

Let's go with don.

[Oopidstay]

EBWOP: And by "let's go with don" I mean "I would like don to claim next."

[Oopidstay]

I do admit it's a little eerie that there's not been a nightkill yet. I would call shenanigans, but this is a mini-normal. :/

[Oopidstay]

Actually, just post the order you want to go in so we don't have to do this back and forth.

Wait, are you asking me? Or is this for everyone? I'm confused, sorry.

[Oopidstay]

All right, I'll post a list, then:

don
implosion
Juls
Twisted/Plague (order doesn't really matter at this point)

[Oopidstay]

implosion is the lynch today. There was a lot of straw-grasping in that last post of his.

Debating whether to hold the vote until massclaim is finished...

[Oopidstay]

@don: If you jailkeep someone, does that prevent

all

night actions from affecting them, or just nightkills?

I'm thinking we should lynch implosion, but don should jailkeep plague tonight. More on this when I have time.

[Oopidstay]

The idea behind jailing plague is this: Assuming don is the one who is targeted for the NK tonight, this will leave us with at least one confirmed town (the jailed target) and two cop innos (barring shenanigans). The current plan calls for the cleared person to be Juls, with Twisted and plague as the cop innos (plus whoever my investigation that night turns out to be). However, if there's a godfather in play, I suspect plague more than I do Juls, so I'd rather get a clear on him than on Juls. Hence, I think plague should be jailed tonight.

However

, Juls suggestion of lynching plague is appealing to me, particularly since plague will apparently be V/LA soon. In which case, we might as will lynch plague and jail implosion. I'll need to think awhile before settling on which option I'd like to take.

[Oopidstay]

WHOA BABY

-don

(assuming I'm lynched and flip town)

is more likely scum than before.

Does anyone else read that as something town wouldn't say, or is it just me?

[Oopidstay]

@oopid: have you played as scum before on mafiascum? If so can you link me to a scum game of yours (one that you lived until LyLo in)

can you answer this oopid?

Sorry, forgot about that. No, I don't have a scum game here.

[Oopidstay]

Avocados suck. Go town!

[Oopidstay]

Whomp. Hoppster, you conniving fiend, you. (lol jk, but yeah, that was a bit bastardly.)

gg, town. I was actually paranoid of a godfather, too, so lynching the cop targets was probably inevitable. At least PoE managed to whittle it down.

As for my little self-vote at the beginning of the game, part of it was to get reactions from people. The other part was to get enough suspicion on me so I wouldn't be a NK target for being too town.

[Oopidstay]

Oh, and good game, Hoppster. This was a fun game to play (because I died before the mayhem ensued lol).