ASOIAF: Test of Faith Mafia (Game Over!)

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hmmm … the first two posts of the game were votes for LMP and Vezok. One of these players absolutely deserves an RVS wagon to oblivion. But it isn’t LMP.

If Vezok flips scum those that actively chose to not vote uber-VI Vezok and instead went with LMP have juicy, juicy scum waiting to be picked hiding in that list.

--

Don't worry, I'll vig vezok.

Liar. I’m going to be vigging Vezok tonght as I am the real Vig.

VOTE: DGB for being a dirty dirty liar.

--

Now, tell me who the cult recruiter is.

You obviously.

--

@Empking and Magua

– Nothing to say at all about the L-3 LMP wagon?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote: SK - Multiple random votes and shirking from the wagon.

1. How do you know that it is a random vote?
2. Why is getting off an L-3 (I think) wagon a scum-tell when Saint K's vote was the first vote and clearly RVS? Should he be required to keep his RVS vote on a wagon if he doesn't see it as valid?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Its a scumtell because there isn't a pro-town motive. The only motive I can think of is that SK and LMP are buddies and SK doesn't want LMP to have attention 0on him or that SK is scum and trying to suggest the LMP/SK connection after SK's death.

So SaintK can’t possibly be Town who came back to the thread and saw that his random vote had expoded into a big wagon?

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Why is it scummy to get on but we're not allowed to question anyone who gets off?

I note that you’ve ignored the conditional aspect of my statement. Cudos.

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"If vezok flips scum" - why is MoI considering the consequences of something that is quite far in the future? Why is he creating some false vezok vs. LMP duel? We're all just having fun creating a kickass, scum-frightening town for ourselves, we're shooting from the hip for reactions, we're smashing the hive with baseball bats. And it's working; MoI is nervously getting his lined up lynches in order. Like LMP was actually going to get lynched on page 2. Townies weren't worried about this; but scum is. GUESS WHAT?

High likelihood that MoI and vezok are buddies.

"If vezok flips scum" - as MoI may know will happen, then the players voting for LMP will eat rope. So MoI is anticipating successful lynch lineups already.

1. Why is Vezok’s flip “quite far in the future”? How do you have any idea when he will be lynched / killed?
2. I’m not creating some dichotomy. Nice mis-representation. I’d actually prefer you to die today.
3. Lining up lynches – a classic go to “Wiki Tell” for scum to use.
4. False attribution that I am worried about LMP being lynched. Another mis-rep.
5. Look at the bolded – she’s attacking me for forging ‘incorrect’ links and proceeds to do the same thing herself. Inconsistent and scummy.

Again, he's not getting it because he's a scared little scum. He's bus'ing: "UBER-VI vezok." He's making up that all of us wagoning LMP (who hasn't even shown up yet, and who we don't want to see claim for nothing anyway), are ACTIVELY CHOOSING to protect vezok!!! There are many twisted layers of manipulation that can only come for scum wetting his pants.

Paragraph ripe with Rhetoric – “I’m scared little scum”, “scum wetting their pants”. Noted.

...that list. He's already got a list of players that aren't just scummy, but juicy juicy scum. Lined up to be picked off. He's scum licking his chops at

the thought of a whole lineup of townies eating rope.

Note the bolded – How does DGB know that every single person on the wagon is Town?

Not to mention how he took my page 1 vig fakeclaim seriously. And counterclaims vig, calling me a liar! Who counterclaims vig??? A real vig doesn't counterclaim, a real vig shoots the fakeclaimant in the dark. Was he joking about it??? I asked myself that, but he's actually voting me over it (and saying he'll vig VEZOK and not me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

Here’s the clincher … how was voting you taking your obv-fake claim seriously? I know you very well fake-claim pointlessly out the wazoo.

But you took my joke counter-claim of your vig claim DEADLY seriously. And it clearly was a joke. I’m not a moron who out himself as Vig Page 1 to a joke claim. I would have just shot you if that was the case.

My vote is good where it is. Outsized reaction to a single vote recorded for posterity.

DGB is scum of some sort. Lynch away!

[MagnaofIllusion]

So if you knew her vig claim was a joke, and your cc was a joke, why did you vote DGB? Especially with all these juicy scum on the LMP wagon, why not single out the one you found scummiest and vote them?

I voted DGB to get a reaction. Not that hard to understand. And I got one in spades.

Again you keep dodging the issue about the LMP wagon – I only think there is juicy, juicy scum there IF Vezok is scum.

You are either purposefully chosing to ignore that or have a hard time with reading comprehension.

While you're noting things, take down that I think you're scum. (Why are you always scum?)

Hmmm … yay for pointless rhertoric?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I like this better.

… Spreads arms wide ….

Translation – elaborate on why you like Lost Butterfly better.

--

Caboooom.

Game on. vote SK

Post 53 is trying to hard.

I want to be clear – you think Sateal in 53 was trying too hard? If yes is that scummy?

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I agree with you.

But if you think Maemuki is scum, and Maemuki is voting SaintKerrigan, why are you still voting SaintKerrigan?

Roll that forward one iteration

1. You agree with AGM that Maemuki is scum.
2. Why are you still voting DGB? Do you have a stronger scum-read on DGB than Mae?

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I'm still leaning toward the MoI side of the fence, but my LB vote suddenly became attractive again.

I’d like to know what exactly makes me a viable vote in your own words. Please oblige.

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Also, MoI clearly came out scummier from what I saw. He reaction-voted thinking we're all serious about the LMP lynch. Scum would think we're serious, avoid the wagon, and attack the person leading it by saying they were under the guise of pursuing a mislynch. They don't want to be a late voter on what seems to be a quicklynch wagon and that was a textbook scum reaction to it.

Perhaps you need to learn to not play Mafia via textbook because this is some piss poor logic.

1. Please show where it is crystal clear I thought the rather stupid RVS was serious.
2. If I wanted to reaction vote and attack the wagon I would definately have targetted as soft target like yourself as opposed to DGB. Voting DGB was important as getting a read on her early is of paramount importance.
3. Please show where I indicate that the people on the wagon were 'pursuing a mislynch'.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The kicker here? If he actually believed his first post then you'd damn well expect a DGB is scum with vezok there since in moonbeam land she fits that POWERFUL SCUM PROFILE.

Elaborate more because just all-capsing letters that I didn’t say doesn’t make your point more valid.

A wagon gets that large even if HOPEFULLY most people were on it for giggles? You bet your ass there's scum on that wagon. This is pretty much independent of vezoks alignment what with the risk/reward there being soo delicious.

Yea, book it.

1. Vezok as scum means there is going to be a higher concentration on that wagon than Vezok as Town. Book that.
2. What do you make of DGB’s “All us Townies gonna be mislynched” statement when attacking me in light of the above. Because she’s arguing directly against what you just said.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Who, really was the first that performed this most heinous of acts?

Why, the person you're voting for. Which, if you believed that line for a second would sure as hell strengthened this point and make DGB AND Vezok likely scum together.

But you dont because its junk and just fists out swinging.

No. Just no.

I’m voting DGB (in serious mode) for her scumtastic reaction. You are jumping to crazy conclusions that “YOU DON’T BELIEVE YOUR THEORY BECAUSE DGB MUST BE SCUM WITH VEZOK”.

1.) Amount can be quibbled. You've said not once but twice now "I only think there is juicy, juicy scum there IF Vezok is scum." that is not a statement of proportions. That is an IFF.
2.) Go ahead and show that key word "all" in what DGB said. Then, when you cant, go ahead and get back to me.

1. No fucking didn't. I pointed out that my being attacked for calling a large amount of scum (aka juicy juicy scum) on that wagon was dependant on VEZOK BEING SCUM, That doesn’t mean that if Vezok is Town there isn't scum there. Just that it's not ripe for the picking. You’re drawing incorrect conclusions.
2. I’ll quote for you –

...that list. He's already got a list of players that aren't just scummy, but juicy juicy scum. Lined up to be picked off. He's scum licking his chops at

the thought of a whole lineup of townies

eating rope.

I’ve bolded for you. Please tell me the clear inference isn’t that everyone in that group is Town. Please.

Its the weird that wagon has scum on if IF vezok is scum business that I'm saying is shenanigans.

If Vezok is scum there is undoubtedly more scum on that wagon than if he is Town. Guarenteed. You can’t argue that with a straight face we go

Vote LMP
Vote Vezok
Vote LMP time 7 or 8

And not have that pattern support more scum if Vezok is scum.

Well, you can’t if you don’t live in Fantasyland.

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This is a very good point. I've caught MOI-scum making ridiculously obvious "this wagon has scum on it" statements before. Specifically in this game and more specifically in this post.

Oh you caught me? In that game where I went all the way to LYLO?

Selective posting for the loss. I advise everyone to read that game and see how often LMP votes for and presses me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOI is ABSOLUTELY playing his scum game right now. He takes little belittling shots like this at people when he's scum. Anything he can to try and undermine someone's credibility he will do.

Nope. Pointing out that you are trying to draw an bad link between me being scum there and me being scum here isn't belittling.

It's defending myself from a crap attack.

Case in point - you linked to that game. Was I belittiling and undermining there? Anyone is free to go look at Return to Liten to make their own assessment.

You, however, are playing to your 'Storm of Swords' scum meta - aka your Day 2 Feysal case. You kept throwing whatever crap you could against him to acheive a mislynch. There it was because your partner Zdenek was under fire. Here it is possible SK is a partner to you and since he is the other viable wagon you are going to the well again.

That actually fits nicely with your cute little "Vote SK OMGUS" you made in your first post. Get that early but pointless distancing vote in.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Lost Butterfly - What do you think of me?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'll have content shortly but -

Ok Faraday. I can't wait for endgame to rub your face in this.

Ok LMP. I can't wait for endgame to rub your face in this.

[MagnaofIllusion]

First things first

–

LMP you are getting this as a separate post since you threw such a temper tantrum about me ‘not responding’ about your frankly craptastic argument that I am playing to a scum meta.

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This is a very good point. I've caught MOI-scum making ridiculously obvious "this wagon has scum on it" statements before. Specifically in this game and more specifically in this post.

Let’s examine this post.

1. You say you’ve caught MoI scum making ridiculously obvious statements before.

Here’s the post in question –

No shit. What a ridiculous statement. You could take 8 players off the player list at random and there would "very likely [be] scum in the list". Where we just feeling like Captain Obvious MOI?

First point

– your original post clearly inferred that you were congizent that I was scum for that post. “I’ve caught MoI scum” doing this. Yet in the Liten post you in no way shape or form specifically state I was scummy for doing this. You didn't press me on it ever. My take-away? That you don’t actually believe it was a scum tell from me but was something you combed through my completed scum games to find a superficial match.

Second point

– It’s a poor meta attack as you are taking a single instance and trying to position it as a easy Scum-tell indicator. Do you have any other instances of said “scum tell”?

Question

– Are you asserting that I am wrong in saying that there is likely to be a higher concentration of scum on YOUR wagon if Vezok is scum than if he is Town?

MOI is ABSOLUTELY playing his scum game right now. He takes little belittling shots like this at people when he's scum. Anything he can to try and undermine someone's credibility he will do.

This is a clear misrepresentation. Please indicate where I took a “belittling shot” at you. Again, how is demonstrating (in a way that you don’t approve of) that you are making a faulty or / and scummy attach on me undermining?

The undermining argument falls direct into one of my soft scum-tells category, BTW. Town players don’t tend to be so jumpy and worried about their own Town cred.

As for me having a Scum meta … that’s laughable. If I was so easy to read as scum I wouldn’t have the Win Precentage as scum I do. Yeah, that’s WIFOM at its core but so is any attempt to link me to a scum meta.

You continue this bad comparision line of attack in the following post –

Not to mention still breathing scum-Magna can be very nasty for town, as evidenced here.

First of all this falls right into the Captain Obvious ridiculous statement category that you derided in Return To Liten.

Of course it’s nasty for Town to leave a competent scum player alive. That’s Mafia 101.

You don’t mention that is also very beneficial for Town to leave a Town player alive.

The whole premise of your reaction is “MoI MUST BE SCUM”. You may claim it is your read but the ‘case’ on me is pretty fucking laughable. I’ll get to that in my catch-up post.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOD – I’ll be V/LA from today at 3pm EST until Wedensday for an actual Vacation. I will likely only have very limited Internet access via Phone during that time.

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In regards to the ‘case’ on me I’m going to address it in this post as opposed to breaking it up into mutlple responses as it keeps this post short.

The ‘case’ on me started with DGB’s rhetoric heavy post where she lays out that I can’t be possibly believe the following premise –

“If Vezok is scum the initial LMP wagon is likely to have a higher than normal concentration of scum”. Yes, that’s the premise I made. It wasn’t in those words but that is the core of what I was trying to communicate.

DGB also threw on some weak other elements that I was

A. Pre-bussing Vezok my partner before he even posted.
B. Scum for responding in any way shape or form to her tired and boring usual fake-Vig claim.

I refuted those points and DGB has chosen not to respond.

If you want to take a crack at saying the statement above is clearly a scum statement and is far more likely to come from scum than Town have at it. I know it’s not true as I know what my Role-pm says.

Most of the rest of the points being made revolve around ‘things’ I people think I should believe based on the first point. Plum and Spyrex are the two doing this that come to my mind.

Pro-Tip Kids – I’m not you. If you want to claim that not thinking like you is a scum-tell have at it. It’s a stupid argument but go ahead.

In any regard whatever the outcome of today I think this questionable wagon on me is going to pay dividends for Town down the road. We have a great chuck of VC Analysis and behavioral analysis data to mine from the thread.

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Hi again all. LMP is scum for the bolded. Please vote accordingly.

Well since DGB is obviously not getting traction I’ll sheep this until I see Saint K’s response.

UNVOTE: DGB
VOTE: LMP

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How many fucking scum reads does MOI have?

Lulz this makes me laugh. I’m sorry, am I not allowed to form the opinion that there are possibly multiple scum players in a Large Theme Game?

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But the focus on connections which are vague enough now and dependent on something happening in the future which MoI did not support with his vote even as he insinuated that it would be useful is a lot of hypothetical talk and no initiative taken, nor responsibility.

So I make an observation that I think will pay dividends if a certain condition is met. And then, since I have at that point no evidence that said condition is likely (Vezok hasn’t even posted) I’m scum for having an observation. Yeah, that’s crap.

Guess what's also a classic Wiki Tell for scum to use? It's the old classic 'that guy's using a Wiki Tell that scumbag!'. That's not a rebuttal.

It doesn’t have to be a fucking rebuttal because the premise that I was lining up lynches is absurd. And yeah, it's as tired as the '3rd Scum on the Wagon' tell. This isn't 2006.

Magna: Hinduragi can't be cult because they can't recruit until N2, as per the rules. I suddenly see what you're saying. What if they started out with more than one member?

If you think you see me calling Hind (or anyone) Cult then you aren’t seeing it correctly. I’ll respond if you wish to elaborate on what you think you see.

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I'm saying if you believed what you said as an additive part you would have clearly stated the connection you yourself were drawing through:

1.) If vezok is scum, the LMP wagon is filled with scum protecting vezok.
2.) DGB is scum because of lol, reactions.
3.) DGB was one that made the LMP wagon.
4.) Therefore, 1 & 2 support each other.

There's no 4. Not even a pretend 4.

You are damn right there isn’t a 4 in my train of thought. Because 1 and 2 are completely independent lines of thinking. DGB can be scum in absolute without it having any direct correlation to Vezok’s alignment.

You are floating links 3 spots down the line before there is even confirmation of DGB or Vezok’s alignment. Sorry, not part of your “Moonbeam Patrol”.

We get a DGB flip of scum or a Vezok flip as scum and it strengthens the possibility. But since I don’t know for certain their alignments I’m not going to go down the Crazy Brick Road.

I asked for the word all. ALL.

So pretty sure there is a whole lineup of townies there. Unless we're arguing the word whole means all but only means butterflies when you say it.

Good for fucking you. I showed you a quote from DGB that asserted that wagon was full of Townies. Your stubborn insistent on DGB not using a specific word doesn’t mean it can’t be inferred. Way to avoid the point I was making to be Captain Grammar!

So again how many scum are there? Its a cult game afterall.

Depending on Town Power, the number of UnCultable players of all alignments and looking at the 20 person starting group I say 5 to 6 scum.

So, lets rap. SK is a nice easy read filled with waffling and the stuff that bullets are made for. MoI has a much harder shell but is filled with creamy, creamy nugat.

Classic stupid argument. LULZ, PLAYER X IS AN EASY SCUM READ JUST LOOK SO LET’S LYNCH SOMEONE ELSE VIGS ARE MEANT FOR EASY SCUM READS.

Why wouldn’t I be just as useful a Vig shot? Explain it Captain Moonbeams!

And I'll enter into V/LA with this little humdinger:

Check MoI's activity onsite. Its pretty awesome.

ABSOLUTE CRAP OF THE HIGHEST ORDER. FUCKING BULLSHIT THAT I WILL NOT FUCKING STAND FOR!!

ELABORATE MOTEHRFUCKER! SAY WHAT YOU MEAN.

I WANT TO SEE WHAT BULLSHIT YOU ARE COMING UP WITH BASED ON MY ACTIVITY HISTORY.

NEXT FUCKING POST!!!

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@MoI - I have a question, mostly I just skim over your walls anyway so maybe I'm missing something, but here;

1. You believe that if Vezok is scum, that the LMP wagon has a disproportionate amount of scum on it.
2. DGB calls you out for lining up a bunch of town mislynches.
3. You vote DGB and she is scummy because she's aware that there is a lot of town on the LMP wagon.

3 isn’t correct, or more correctly complete. I’m voting DGB for her virulent reaction to my post and the outsided “LULZ OBV-SCUMCLAIM” of it in full.

Her attempting to say I was scum for taking her obv-fake Vig comment.

Her attempting to say I was lining up lynches (which is false and a classic scummy attack).

The whole kit and caboodle.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Outstanding Important Issues

–

I am still waiting to hear SaintKerrigan’s reasons for voting for me as asked at 83.

I desperately want to see what the Mina half of Lost Butterfly has to say about me being Town or Scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm pretty sure I can read you better than Mina can. But maybe that's me being arrogant.

That may be true but I still want to see Mina's take on the issue.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The MoI/LMP/LB Ménage à trois is disturbing to read, and kind of pointless as well. I've already gotten to the point where LMP's and MoI's posts are too long and too point-by-point for me to care about reading them. LB's are equally disturbing/pointless, but at least mercifully shorter.

Why is it pointless? Have you absolutely determined our aligment? Do tell.

Also … you didn’t answer this. Please do so –

Roll that forward one iteration

1. You agree with AGM that Maemuki is scum.
2. Why are you still voting DGB? Do you have a stronger scum-read on DGB than Mae?

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@LMP – You’ve continued to not directly answer this question. Stop dodging and answer it –

Question – Are you asserting that I am wrong in saying that there is likely to be a higher concentration of scum on YOUR wagon if Vezok is scum than if he is Town?

On to other replies …

When I said "caught" I meant "I've seen you do this before" not "I got him lynched as scum". I think context makes this perfectly plain.

Of course you do. But as shown in thread others seem to be taking my posts in all sorts of creative directions that I didn’t intend.

So if I've only seen you do something once as scum, and I've never seen you do it as town, I'm not allowed to draw a conclusion from it?

Not if you want it to be a credible conclusion. You are basically saying “Hey this one time out of his 50+ games MoI did something that tangentially resembles something he did when he was scum”.

If your argument is that its a small sample size, then I disagree as I've played plenty of games with town-MOI and never seen you do this. Thus I've only seen you make statements like this when you are scum. If your argument is that it only happened once as either town or scum and thus isn't enough data to make it a conclusive scum-tell, then you may have an argument there.

Yeah, that’s it in a nutshell.

But indulge me … list all the games where you have directly experienced MoI Town. I can only come up with 3 off the top of my head and don’t want to Wiki stalk. In two of those games I died N1.

But note that you are only making this argument now after I've pushed you on it. Your natural response was "HAHA YOU NEVER VOTED ME IN THAT GAME", which was an attempt to discredit my argument by means other than countering the logic it was based on.

This is so circular logic it hurts.

1. You specifically asked me to respond in a meanful manner. I do and now you try to assert it’s scummy. Way to establish a damned if you do, damned if you don't
2. My ‘natural’ response while being bombarded by crap attacks from all sides is scummy? Sorry I didn’t have 45 minutes to an hour to sit down and properly respond to your one point that wasn’t strong to being with. You aren't a special snowflake who deserves extra attention.

I've already done this. The belittling shot was the "oh ya, if you caught me then why did I live to LYLO and you never voted me once".

You are absolutely stretching with this. If I had called your moronic for brining up that invalid point I could see you making this argument. But I didn’t.

Your implication is that I shouldn't be listened to because I didn't get you lynched in that game.

Hold the horse Tex. My implication? You were the one just dismissing my point that your were originally implying something with a wave of the “in context it is plain” flag. My implication was that your assertion was crappy and invalid. Which it is.

Sorry, can’t have it both ways.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well I see unsurprisingly I've been pushed to L-1 while on vacation.

I hope collectively you are smart enough to allow me to give my assessment and reads before going through with this inane lynch.

And make no mistake it is an inane lynch.

There isn't any case that holds even the slightest amount of water out there.

Mostly just people budding up to DGB because she's 'fun' and a load of people more interested in not rocking the boat than critically thinking.

I will leave Town with one read since I'm not going to be vindictive and tell Town to rightfully Fuck Off since it would not ne in my win-cons best interest.

kast is scum. Look at his contribution to the game. Kast is a long winded player. look at any of his Town games. Yet here ne hops on my wagon with zero input. And has done nothing else.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well since all of you are stupid enough to listen to DGB and her rhetoric ...
Yes that's all it Fucking is cute but useless crap like 'Lulz Image stretching Ra Ropes I'm so Culz". That's not scum hunting.

Dollars to donuts I get janitor. If I do I will be calling anyone who says "MoI was obv' an idiot.

In summary ... the case on me is nonexistent and scummy.

One of the LULZ patrol of DGB and Spy is scum. 100%.

Kast is scum. Suddenly he comes alive when called out. Also his MoI is more dangerous as scum than Town argument makes no sense if he thinks I was so easily caught on a stupid bus. Scum.

Gut says other scum are probably found in Nexus Saint K and Benmage.

I'm not claiming as there is no protown reason to.

Lynch me and then get after some actual scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well hey look ... Vezok was scum and 66% of the remaining scum was on the early SaintK wagon .... just like I suggested.

Told You So!

Good game scum.

Good game ooba (as always).

[MagnaofIllusion]

If magua wasn't fail we would've.

Or if you had made smart moves as opposed to some of the choices you actually made ...